Be the CEO of Your Own Treasury Career: Lessons in Leadership and Growth

Foreign to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession. Going to next. Let's get on with the show. This week's show I'm joined by Emily Howell, the corporate treasurer, Senior director, Treasury and Risk at Copart Inc. Founded in 1982 with a single salvage yard in California, Copart has grown into a global leader and premier source of online vehicle auctions. Copart's innovative technology online auction platform link buyers and sellers around the world. Headquartered in Dallas, the group actually operates more than 200 locations, 11 countries and more than 175,000 up for auction every day. Every week? Every day. Amazing. So they also specialize in reselling used wholesale and salvage title vehicles for a variety of sellers. We'll go through that a little bit more and I'll get Emily to explain a little bit more. But I want to get onto Emily's journey within treasury or Finance and then Treasury. Emily, if you would talk us through, how did you. Welcome to the show and you know, how did you first start because you started in assurance Risk and then discovered Treasury. Over to you.

Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me, Mike. I'm very excited to do this episode with you and talk about treasury and Copart, my two favorite passions. I got into treasury through sheer dumb luck. To be real honest. It was a mix of serendipity and kismet to find my passion a little bit after the halfway point of my career so far. So started in Risk, my first job after college and spent about seven years at Liberty Mutual learning both types of casualty insurance and really developing my love of working with people and knowing kind of that future minded outlook on what's to come and prevented incidents that come down the line. And I just really enjoyed that time. When I moved over to my first corporate role in 2015, it was for a brand new company that had been spun off. It was bought by private equity and they know that they needed a risk person but didn't have any liabilities yet for me to manage. And so during that time they let me know, oh by the way, since you're not busy yet, you're going to help back up the treasury function. And at that time I was like that sounds awesome. What's Treasury? So I have been very lucky during that seven year stint at Forterra, which is the company I later became to be to have wonderful mentors that really taught me what treasury was. And it was during that kind of pivotal time that I realized this is my passion, this is what I love to do.

And can you explain? So Forterra, who are they? I know that we've got it here, but so that if someone else, maybe more junior level is thinking, oh, what should I get into? Who were they? What were they?

Sure. It was a spin off of a building products group from a company called Lehigh Hansen. It's owned by Heidelberg Cement in Germany. And they had purchased a company looking for the aggregate and by way of that purchase also wound up with some building products lines of business that they didn't really want long term. They held it for a while. That was during the 2008 market upheaval. And when the time came and the market rebounded in 2015, they spun off that building product group as a distinct entity. It was started brand new March 13th of 2015. And they staffed up to run that company for the next seven years to grow it, streamline its vision, divest some, acquire some, and really become something wonderful. It became the number one water company in North America during that time. We went through an IPO and did just a lot of really cool finance things during that time. And it was just, like I said, just very lucky for me to be in the right place at the right time to learn all about treasury and finance during that era.

And with that time you were in treasury, but was there someone you know who was coaching you, who you said about mentors and things like that? What was that like?

Well, so I that position turned over a few times, which is just the nature of private equity. But I had some really great VPs that I worked for. Some really great CFOs I worked for are still friends, we still meet quarterly just to get together. But my VP originally was a gentleman named David Lawrence who's gone on since then. He and Food Service, leading that treasury group. Now I had a really great mentor, CFO Charlie Brown, who embodies Charlie Brown.

Yeah, love it.

He's wonderful. And then just the treasury professionals that I work for in my group, there was a woman who's now here locally, that was Stephanie Harp. She just, she taught me the day to day of what treasury is. She was willing to really sit down with me and explain, you know, treasury for Dummies basically and a right way that made it accessible to me and see how, how great that profession could.

Be and you know, interdepartmental. I know that that was a key thing. You, you're very Much based on relationships, you know, so you came in as the Treasury. You know, I was looking through some of your background and things. I know that working across departments is a big thing that you like. How, how would you say other treasury, treasury professionals should do it? Is it, you know, meeting other people for coffee or what should they be doing? What's the sort of, what's your watchword?

I think it's, it's very personality based. I happen to be just a flaming extrovert in every single form of the fashion. I just love people. So what I do is I ask people out for lunch dates. That was a big thing that we do. I also asked to be one on one, put one on ones on people's calendars to kind of compare visions and roadmaps to see where we can find opportunities to streamline a little bit. Just learning lessons along the way. I realized a couple times in my career that there was some duplicity of efforts where my team might be working on something and another team was also working on that. And we were doing the same thing in parallel where we could have collaborated and just had a more streamlined approach to solving issues. And that bothered me. I didn't like this working in silos, doing the same thing in different departments. And so really building interdepartmental relationships has become one of my pet passions here at Copart and also at fora. Getting to know what, what does other people's future look like and how do we fit together and align where we can support them?

Well, let's, let's get into the Copart bit. But as we, as we do that, I just want to use that sort of. Going back to what you just said is there can be sometimes. I'm not saying you're going through it, but where some people. Hang on, no, that's my turf. You know, you're looking after that. How do you get over that, though? You know, again, maybe in for terror.

Down to now there, there's been times where, where people might feel like, no, it's, that's my job and if you do my job, I won't have a job. And really, treasury is a supporting actor or actress in that. In a business. We are here to reduce kind of that menial or manual type pain points that other departments have to make their work and time more value added and other things that we aren't good at and don't excel in. I'm never going to be wonderful at operational excellence. That's just not my background, it's not my passion. But I can take off some of this just duplicative or harder manual processes that maybe the operations folks are doing by streamlining, streamlining or automating in treasury and free up their time to go do something awesome that makes the overall whole better together. And that's really by explaining that we're not here to take your job, we're here to give you time back to go do your job better is really how we kind of win those hearts and minds for partnerships.

And so then you. So you were senior treasury manager for Terra, managing all the pipe work. Love it. Fantastic. How did you then move across to Copar? And then you can explain who they are. Gave a bit of a header obviously about the company. Talk us through.

Forterra was number one in North America and what we did, but we were private equity and the goal, private equity is obviously value creation and then moving on to the next project to do the same thing. So it was a finite timeline. In 2018 is where we started having discussions about being purchased by another company, which was quickbeat. The Winchester portfolios out of Atlanta wanted to streamline that business with their own version of it. And so we did go through an acquisition. So for the first seven years we were the acquirer and in the end we were acquired, which initially broke all of our hearts. We had built a wonderful team. We loved working together. We had done fantastic, exciting projects, hard things together. Our joke was steel is forged in fire because we had steel pipe and we were sad that that was going to be breaking up. We still get together though. We're all still here, local. But that time is when we realized that this company that was purchasing us is based out of Atlanta and they wouldn't need a Dallas finance office. And so we were giving along. This is also during COVID So we started getting into 2020 Covid era and they were fantastic about it. They helped us with resume writers and professional headshots and really networking to get that office placed in their next role, which was a. Was a great thing to go through, being on both sides of that point and just.

Sorry, I just want to jump in there. That's quite unusual really for a PE firm. So sometimes they're just like, you're just a product, you know, you've just got your, you know, streams. I know that at Judy Fabris back on the show years ago and I just said, look, it's all about the cash, really. You're in pe, get the cash. And she said, well, actually remember even now that she said, you know, we had a jokey Chat. Yeah, it's about getting the cash and then you get to do all the fun stuff. Oh, wow. Okay. She went, yeah, get the cash, get that assorted streamlined and then move on. But you were in that PE situation. But it sounds like they weren't quite your normal PE firm. That, that's nice that they were doing that.

They were. So it was, the PE firm was Lone Star Funds out of Dallas. Part of it was probably the era which we were in. We did have to go through a DOJ review for, for combining those two large businesses. So it was a drawn out process. I think they would like, they wanted to retain the folks that were going to close the deal. So they, they did make it attractive for us to stay. But part of that was the partnership of if you stay, we will help you land your next role and move to your next position. So it's very, it was a, it was a good period. It was a good thing to go through, honestly. It was not sudden and it was not traumatic. It was nicely planned and purposeful.

Yeah. And then, as you say, purposeful. They helped and then you got this next role. So talk us through. As I said, I gave the corporate spiel who are Copart? And then let's boil it down a little bit more to the treasury, the Copart, if you will.

Sure. So Jeff Meow is our CEO here and his tagline is, is we're the best company no one's ever heard of. Just because we, we are incredible. And I, I, that sounds boastful, but I really, I love Copart. I love the culture. I love Willis Johnson's vision for this company. He's still active as the executive chairman. He was here last week walking the floor. It really, it's a special company that I, at Forterra, I was afraid I had peaked in my career because that was the most fun job I could envision. And I was just sad and nervous that that was going to be my highlight and everything else would fall short. And I have been so very pleasantly surprised to come to Copart and find that it's not the case at all. This is more fun. The work we do and just kind of the freedom we have to create here is wonderful. So as you mentioned, Copart is an online auto auction platform. We partner with our sellers, which are primarily insurance companies, to help provide that platform to sell on consignment the vehicles that they have repurchased from their insurance. So that's not the only thing we do. That's the primary thing we do. We also have Partnerships with financial institutions or fleets to sell those as well. But we provide this platform for our global audience, for vehicles to move around the world. And that is, in a nutshell, what we do. But there's so much more to just the innovation we're allowed to have. Jay Adair was our former CEO and he's the current chairman of our board. He has grown up in this business and in the 90s, he took us online before online was cool. And it was because he had the vision and that mentality of what's next? What can we do next to provide value for our sellers and our shareholders? It's pervasive. So no one here just sits on their laurels and says, well, my job is to push this button for the rest of my career. It's my job is to go find what's next and bring it back and find a way to add that value into our department.

And you said that he saw the value of the Internet and going online and everything else. Was that just a business decision or, you know, as you say, it's quite persuasive, you know, which, it sounds different. I want to dig into that for the treasury side, but, you know, you feel that you've got the latitude to dig into other stuff or.

Right. So he saw it as, as not only just the future, but reaching more of an audience to sell these vehicles for our sellers. So in a local auction, you have the local buyers.

Yeah.

By going online, you have the world. And that is where we can really provide that value for both ends. A buyer in a remote part of the world might not have a dealership they can just walk into, but they have a need for transportation. So we provide that service where they still have access to these vehicles. And for our sellers, you know, their duty is to their insured. So to move those vehicles quickly for them, get their insured paid out so they can go buy a new one if they need to. If the car's been totaled. We're providing the service to move these vehicles quickly for them. And by going online, it's just a wider audience to have those sold at the proper value and then also as fast as we can.

And when you joined Emily and you know, you can give us maybe what was treasury and then risk and things like that. What, what was it? You walked in the door, what was there was a clean sheet, you know, Greenfield, or what was the situation?

I did walk into an inherited group of some really talented individuals. My predecessor had left to go pursue his passion in a non for profit treasury role. And kind of open this door. He'd laid a lot of bedrock for us on future projects and vision. But there was still a, you know, I'm not sure I'll ever be done, but there was still a lot of projects to go and finish. And so I walked in with my team of I had six people here in Dallas and we did everything from some investments and making payments easier and handling, you know, financial transactions for the company. And that's grown in scope over the last three years. My team is now we have 19 people and we've taken on other departments from our PCards application group, which is a group we have here. And then also I built out the risk function here. So we have several risk professionals now.

And again we touched on technology there and we talked before about your treasury system and things like that. You know, how are you taking treasury forward?

So I credit a lot of this to Leah who joined us, who is my rcfo, Leah Stearns. And she joined us about two years ago. But the focus has really been on problem solving, manual work just to really free up time for everyone to take take off things that have to be done but aren't necessarily creating value to allow more time to go find new ways to create value. And so we did that through people processes making sure we have the right people, making sure we have the right systems and that we have documented processes that make sense for everyone and really eliminating things that are not value add at all. Maybe they're legacy that started it for a reason 20 years ago and they've been continued on and really taking a critical look at them now to say is this still a needed function or can we, you know, sunset that and go tackle something else and having that freedom and buy in to raise our hand and say hey, we've grown, we're a multi, you know, global multibillion dollar company. We should have a tms. We shouldn't be working off Excel spreadsheets from our global finance directors to provide a cash flow. We should have a way to just click a button and get a dashboard, which we do now. And really having the freedom to go find a tool that makes us better has been wonderful.

And just going back to that tool because I want to dive into that. I'm assuming that's not an AI tool. Everyone's going on about AI or is it an AI tool?

There is some, there is an element of that. So not generative AI, but machine learning to help so kind of differentiate what type of AI we utilize. We don't in treasury use anything that's generative. But we do have machine learning that we utilize to help our cash flow and automate some processes to sort things and where into the buckets for cash flow, where they should go so that a human's no longer physically doing that every week.

And I think that's the. You know, we interviewed Dana Laidhold back last year live on stage about this time last year and Nasdaq and they would then, with machine learning, taking, scraping the exposures on their foreign exchange for nasdaq. You know, previously it was manual, then they were doing it, then they were scraping, scraping, and then they were doing it live, live scraping of all the FX exposures. Someone asked me the other day, another recruiter, and they said, oh, are you using AI? Are you using? I said, I am a bit, but actually they're straight through processing for our salary survey. If someone does this, I get the person to do it. It automates it and there's automation. I think there's a lot of noise, isn't there? AI is the new buzzword sort of thing. How do you. I mean, I'm sure you've got that. I know that you're involved with various associations and things. We'll go on to that. But, you know, how do you deal with that noise?

I think that initially when AI came on everyone's initial takes, well, they're going to take our jobs like machines are going to take our jobs. I was at an event last week with some really great CFOs that put on various topics. It was a learning event. And on one slide of the final presentation on AI, there was a quote that said, and I apologize, I don't have the original person who said that, but the quote was, AI is not going to replace our jobs, but humans with AI will replace the jobs of humans without AI. And that I wrote down. I was like, oh my gosh, they could have told probably 10 people. That's exactly it. So we're not going to have bots sitting here anytime soon, maybe in 500 years, but having the tools to make us more efficient and use our brain to critically go find new opportunities, that. That's where AI really augments the treasury fund.

Yeah. And. And so I'm bringing it back here with the salary survey. This, this guy was like, oh, I'm going to do it this way, I'm going to do it that way. And I was like, that's fine for you. And I wanted to say to him, I know it won't work because I've tried it myself. The More that you can automate it. The more than you know there is and there is a big hump at the beginning but then the benefits just like take take off, don't they for sure. And financing with you guys, again, we're not going to get into confidential info but more, you know, what approaches have you taken? Because again I think you said you've got 11 different countries and you've got international operations. What's that like for you?

As a treasurer, I have a privilege of leading a very successful company right now. At Forterra we were highly leveraged. It was all about debt management and being creative and managing the debt. Here it's more working capital and managing cash and so we don't have debt, which is a very wonderful privilege. We have quite a lot of liquidity that we're able to find new ways to responsibly invest and create that return for our shareholders. We're always looking to squeeze a little more blood out of the turnip to get more and more return on our investments for our, our group and the financing, we've taken different strategies just in my time here on if we want to utilize outside financing or internal and try to. We've done both to, to see which.

One is the best fit and we talked there. You know, we've gone from you joining risk and insurance and things like that. Now you're the treasurer, a copart as you've taken on the leadership roles and I know that I'm seeing you in texpo in a few weeks time and things like that. You as treasury professionals there, we're giving our treasury career corner live. We're doing that to show how other treasurers have done it. You know, what advice would you give to those treasury professionals? I know you've spoken at some of these conferences. When you're talking to that audience, is it about study, is it about getting around the company or what are the some of the secrets for success if you like.

So for me it's my personality. It's building relationships both internal and external is knowing who you're supporting and what their goals are so that you can then tailor your goals to support their goals. Treasury is a cost center. Not lately because of interest rates and we've had some good returns. But in general we don't go create value out in the world by making the things or selling the things. We create value by supporting those who do. And so it's critical to know them, know their priorities, know their future vision and then tailor what we're doing to help them achieve that and building those relationships is the critical point. Because I could think something's a fantastic idea, I love the product and I want to go implement it. And then it provides no benefit for the overall organizational goals. And while it was awesome and cool, it's just, it's accomplished and doing nothing to drive value. Whereas if I go and have these regular one on ones and go to lunch and have those conversations and be included in the meetings to know what the vision is, the long term horizon, then I can get in line and make sure that we are an engine behind those that are doing it to really push them forward in a more meaningful and efficient way.

And if, if someone is, how can I put it, if someone is facing that situation where they are talking to a colleague who is quite passionate about one of the things they want to do and you're trying to, you know, again, without confidential things, how do you coach them out of it if they're going, oh, yeah, we should do this, we should do. You're like, yeah, yeah.

But I think a lot of it is by having them talk you through it and kind of come to those conclusions on their own once they start getting deeper. So, you know, there's the, the five whys and like, why do you think that's the direction we should go? What do you see the benefit and then kind of seeing where perhaps a different approach might be more beneficial in the long run. And if not, understanding that maybe it's me that needs to compromise, maybe it's my vision that needs to be aligned. So not coming in with a hammer, but coming in as a note taker and understanding how we can work together to accomplish a goal and not work against each other. I think one of the challenges that I faced is resistance to change. Copart is wildly successful and in 42 years they've accomplished amazing things. And so there's a, a tendency for folks that have been here 25, 30 years to be like, this is how we got here. And I don't want to change that. And so being respectful and be like, you have done an amazing thing and you have gotten here and accomplished these things with maybe archaic tools now and today. But what got us here is not going to get us to the next level. Yeah, and, and how can we pivot and use the knowledge that we've grown and accumulated over this time to then leverage up to what the next plateau might be in another two years?

Hello, it's Mike here from the treasury recruitment company. You've just been hearing my voice here talking to another Amazing guest, but I just thought I'd jump in. I hope we're linked on LinkedIn@LinkedIn.comMr. treasury, Mr. Treasury to you and I. That means that then I can share our latest video blogs. I do them each and every week where I talk about how to get your next pay rise, how to improve your career, how to find your next role. If you're looking to recruit, I'm here to help. Connect to me on LinkedIn. I'll be looking forward to it. Just say Mike heard your message on the podcast, thought we connect. Let's get on with the show. And now I wanted to sort of move into. I know you're great with your relationships, you're great with, you know, volunteering for, you know, committees, paying it forward and things like that. I was just actually putting together some of my. They won't have heard this. This is a good thing. People won't have heard my final slides and things. But, you know, I was talking about the New York Cash or the Team Money association and I put my hand up to help with one of their sessions. They said, actually we fully full for that one. Can you. But could you help with this other one? That's led to two or three other things. But I never did it for that reason. It wasn't done in a. Or pre plan. I must do this. I was like, look, do you want a hand? I can help if you want. You know, I've got this expertise. I know you do a similar thing with various organizations. You know, is that just at the goodness of your heart or why are you doing it?

Finance in Dallas is a somewhat small world and I take the responsibility of acknowledging that my team is the future leaders of finance in Dallas. And it's not through me, but it's through encouraging them to participate in things like that that they get exposure to and develop who they're going to become when they're a treasurer in 10 years or 15 years. And really investing in the people and in the organizations that support the people now pays off in the future. So that people have been like, I remember that I sat in a meeting. I didn't understand it at the time, but I've done it before and now I feel more confident to do it this time. And that's really what the mentors early on in my career did for me. And it's something that I'm really passionate about doing for not only just my team here at Copart, but for the others that are just starting out is that exposure to big things early on Helps build the confidence of, this is for sure what I want to do. And then when you get there knowing, oh, I've done this before, I recognize this, I'm familiar with it. And having the confidence to then move on purposefully in that next project or role and beyond that, knowing that I'm kind of teaching them to teach others so that when they get there, they're the same thing. And having this generational impact on the finance in Dallas is something that I am passionate about.

Although I got some pushback for this actually when I was at AFP and I was talking to a couple of treasurers, they were like, hit. Listening podcasts all the time, might really enjoy it, but sometimes you talk about these treasures, I just don't know where they get the time. You know, it's like, you know, if, if I'm giving time to my association, if I'm doing this. And I was just like, well, it's not like you make time, you're not robbing time with your family. You know, for me it's sort of, you know, it's given opportunities to travel the world and, and actually now, you know, when we do AFP later this year, it's going to be a family trip because it coincides with a holiday. That's what I. One of the things I was saying to them, you know, we're planning ahead and things, but how would you justify it? You know, if you've got sort of someone that's perhaps not quite so keen, you know, how do, how do you convince them? What's the convincer?

I think it's very personalized on positions in life at, at any given time. My kids are teenagers, they're about to go off to college, so I have a little bit more time. I don't think I could be as invested If I had 3 year olds in daycare. So recognizing one size does not fit all at any given time and honoring that. Sometimes a boundary is important because you want to be there for a Little League game. My Little league games are done and so I have a little bit more time in the evenings to invest in the organizations and then also just prioritizing what you're passionate about. I probably would not be as invested I, as I am if I was some other career that I didn't find so exciting. But because I found my passion, it's, it's not work, it's not like, oh, I have to go to this event. It's like, I get to go to this event, I get to be with other thought leaders. And learn from them. And it's just exciting to me. I just really enjoy it. So it, it's not necessarily a burden, it's a privilege.

And I've talked to, I'm trying to remember who I was talking to the other day, but we were talking about the working from home life balance and things. And actually now we were talking about the fact that they, they do a lot of their work, they then get to see their kids and everything else and they know that they're going to be on for a couple of hours that evening. That's fine. They said actually because I'm, you know, I'm able to go to the gym in the morning, then I'm dealing with the us then I'm doing this and then, you know, I mean, but there's a flexibility there. And it's not like they were saying, but I have to work 12 hour days. They were saying, no, I work an eight hour day but on my own time working from home and things. And they are sometimes traveling to the city and things like that. But sounds like you've got similar thing as well.

We do, we are primarily in person here. We do rotate just one day at home to be able to do the things as well. But it is similar that we might have jump back on in the evening to finish a project. But it all stems from something because we're passionate about it. So it's not an atmosphere of like crushing, like despair of oh, I still have to do more work. It's like, oh, I have some more time to go work on this a little bit more. Because you can see tangible differences that you're making in an organization. It's exciting for me and foremost in my group I think would say the same thing.

And I know that you've spoken at industry conferences. We, you know, we both do this. And then you've also been recognized as nominee for Treasure, today's woman of the year and things. You know, how important to that is that, that sort of recognition but also networking, thought leadership and things within your career. Is that something you think you've just touched on it there. That's why it's sort of, you know, bringing it to mind. Is that the thing you think everyone should try and do?

I think it again, it's individualized. The recognition obviously is very, it's nice. It's not a driving factor. I think it's important for the industry to have ways to recognize folks and, and future leaders really combats things like imposter syndrome. If you're in a brand new role and you're trying your best and you love doing it, but you're not getting that feedback. Am I doing a good job? Am I making a difference? Am I participating in the larger ecosystem to make it better? Those little benchmarks and touch points of, hey, you did something really cool. This is really great. Is reassuring to be like, ah, okay, what I'm doing is making a difference and it invigorates you to continue going on. So I think those industry groups and those recognition and awards is great to really spur on the folks that just give them a touch. Point of, you're on the right track, keep going.

Yeah. And any other advice you give, maybe looking back to yourself a number of years ago that you now wish. I wish if you were listening to the podcast today and you're a Treasury assistant moving into your first analyst role or something, Any advice there?

I definitely wish I could go back to 2018 and listen to my then mentor and boss at the time who told me, go get your cpa because at the time I thought that sounds awful. I just finished my master's in accountancy in August of last year, so it took me a few years to get there. And I definitely wish I had invested more into education and learning and being prepared for the roles to come versus just being complacent is probably not the right word, but just enjoying where I was. So having more of a future, a longer vision for where I wanted to go would have been great to have. I still wound up in a wonderful place, but now it's something that I really take seriously of driving where I want to go from here and being the CEO of my own career, to know where the next steps might be.

Love that. I'm going to take that. Well, I'll cut that. I want that one. CEO of your own career, though. Great words from Mike Richards. That's amazing. No, I'm not. I've got a lot. I've got Leanne going, oh, your network is your net worth and all this stuff. And I'm getting the CEO of In your own career, why are you giving value bombs like these are mine. I don't want you to give this. But actually one of the things I will say is he talks about investing in yourself. We were just talking before the show that we working more closely with the afp. For instance, at Jim Cates on the show, we're gonna get other people, but because we're doing stuff and you know, we'll put a link in the show notes to people if they're thinking about studying. We have partnered with AFP with, you know, to go and do ctp. We love all education. It's just how it happens. We're going to work closer with those guys because that's something we want people to do. You know, get that education. It helps. You can't. You can't take it away from people.

That's absolutely right. Education or travel are the two things no one can take away from you. And that CTP credential, I earned mine in 2018, it makes you kind of a jack of all trades in treasury so that you're ready to tackle whatever project presents itself next or where you want to drive. You know a little bit about a lot of things and that is invaluable so that you're never starting from square one at any given time. When a new project comes up, you're like, oh, I remember this. Or I know where to go for this. It's just incredibly value additive to a career in Treasury.

Well, we're going to put your LinkedIn details in the show notes and I mean, we will finish on your lovely phrase in a minute because that was just brilliant. But LinkedIn details in the show notes, what are the takeaway pieces of advice that you would give to anyone listening today?

From a Treasury perspective? This particular brand of finance is extremely collaborative and being willing to maybe push your comfort zone, seek out leaders. People love talking about their passions. Here I am now. I love talking about treasury and I'm so excited to be on your podcast. So asking others that maybe be a leader in a different part of the business to tell you what their passion is and see how you can support that. I think building relationships and being collaborative is the key to innovation and treasury for, you know, now and into the future.

Amazing. But we can't leave it there. You're gonna have to. You're gonna say the words and, you know, you've got to repeat them. Being CEO of your own treasury career, you've got to say that surely I do.

And I, I take ownership of my career. I know that I'm the CEO of my career and I'm in charge of me to know where I need to augment what my current skills to go to where my future vision for myself will be.

You can't make that up through chat GPT. You can't give us gold like that. So anyone listening today, be lucky. Lucky to have Emily in your circle. Connect with her. We're going to see each other in Texas very soon. Thank you very much. You've been an absolute superstar.

Thank you so much Mike. This has been wonderful. I really I It's an honor privilege to be part of your podcast.

Thank you. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode just as much as I did recording it. Now. Don't forget to subscribe on your usual platform with that Spotify Apple podcast wherever you listen to your podcast so you never miss a future episode. Want to stay ahead in Treasury? Fantastic. Sign up for our newsletter. There's a link in the show Notes. You'll get instant access to my Pay Review Action plan for you treasury professionals Free guide to help you prepare for salary negotiations. Maximize your salary at your next pay review. You'll also get early access to our 2025 Treasury Salary Trends White paper. And if you take part in our salary survey as well@treasurysalary.com we can send you our January review of salaries as well. And by signing up to the newsletter, you'll get access to our cv, resume templates, career tips. What could be better? It's amazing. If you're looking for a role, go to the website treasuryrecruitment.com or maybe even join us at any of our 2025 events and conferences. We're right the way across. We're going from the US back through the uk right the way across Europe. Dublin. It's gonna be a great year in 2025, so looking forward to it. Go to our events page treasurerecruitment.com events and sign up. Meet us in New York in March or anywhere else you want to see us in the rest of the world. Thanks for listening. Until next week. See you soon. Anywhere else you want to see us in the rest of the world. Thanks for listening. Until next week. See you soon.