Building Skills and Staying Adaptable with Brice Zimmermann

Foreign.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals.

About their treasury careers.

Each and every week I talk to them about how they've built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show.

In this week's show, delighted to be joined by Bryce Zimmerman, the global head of treasury at Alcon. Alcon is a global leader in eye care dedicated to helping people see brilliantly. With a Heritage Spanning over 75 years, they offer the broadest portfolio of products to enhance sight and improve people's lives. Truly global. They work in 60 countries, serving patients in over 140 countries. Long history of industry first which we'll get a bit more into the company as always with Bryce and he can explain was like for him as a Treasury professional there. But as always we're going to start with his origin story if you like and apologies to listeners, you can hear Bryce is going to sound amazing. He's got a great microphone. I've got a bit of a cold so when you're listening to this, just bear with with, you know, we'll try and tweak it in the after edit but I'm still going to sound like I've got a cold because I've got a cold. But there you go. Get out of there. Bryce, if you would, back to you origin story, if you would. How did you first discover finance and then move into Treasury? Over to you, sir.

So basically already as a student I always wanted to work in finance and at the very beginning of my career I chose audit as I thought it was the good way to already start working but still be on a learning path. When you start your career as an auditor, you change clients regularly and you see different ways how companies are organized and this is a very great way to keep learning and developing your skills.

Some of the guys coming out of university, here's a position in Audi, like really audit sounds a bit boring. You didn't find it that I remember I'm looking at my show notes and you actually really found it a good way to understand what's going on under the bonnet, as it were. Was that right?

Yeah, exactly. You get to see a lot of clients and the same topics are treated differently by different clients. As I started in Luxembourg, I worked very much in the fund industry. I had the opportunity to audit a corporate as well and many banks and it was really, really very interesting to see the cultures and different accounting treatments as well for the same topics. So this is what I found interesting.

And a good place to start as well. Luxembourg, lovely city, lovely, lovely country, lovely everything.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Basically, as a French student, you have the choice between Paris, which is obviously a natural place if you want to start your career in auditing, or as I studied in the eastern part of France, Luxembourg was as well, quite a natural choice. And as you at that time there were more than 200 banks in Luxembourg. I chose that area and it's great.

Because it's a really international environment. So you got that exposure and then the next move back to you, the.

Next move was moving to a bank actually in Luxembourg because I wanted to see the real stuff. You know, the good part as an auditor is that you, you gather a lot of experience. The more frustrating part is that you, you come to a client, you make recommendations, you're never sure that there will be a effectively implemented. Moving to a banking sector or to the other side, you effectively see challenges, you see opportunities, you get to develop, you get to work on projects and go from there and keep building on the projects you've implemented to develop the system further. And this is what I really enjoyed. And then the next move was that I actually was lucky enough to pass a diploma of financial analyst. This gave me broader knowledge in the finance spectrum and that was really the key step for my next move, which was then to move to Treasury.

Had you heard about treasury by that stage or was it brand new to you? Or someone said ego his Treasury. What's Treasury?

No, it was really brand new for me. I had studied a lot of economics, derivatives, bond equities and so. But effectively working in a Treasury department for a big corporate like Novartis was brand new to me. I knew nothing about treasury and how what treasury really does. It was a great move for me because since then I have really enjoyed every day coming to the office.

What was it like being, you know, that fresh face within Treasury? You came along and it was like all the treasury is new but you're then working in a, as Treasury Controller in a global multinational. How did you sort of, again, this is advice. If I'm thinking about myself with some of the listeners, they're going crumbs. That's what I'm about to do or that's what I'd like to do, but it's a little bit daunting, you know, how did you, you know, get over that?

If you like, you have to be really open minded and show a lot of willingness to learn and be motivated because every day you come to the Office and for a few months you, you learn so much from, from your colleagues and by, by as well. Re going into your books that you studied before and you come back home in the evening and you have a huge headache because it's been so much you needed to assimilate during the day. But it was really fun and we.

You know, a lot of us know Novartis but could you give, you know, a lot of people don't know Novartis. So for someone that's fresh and say hi, I'm a Treasury controller at Novartis at who can you explain who and what they did and the dimensions of your role that then we'll explore a bit more.

On the treasury side, Novartis is one of the global leaders in healthcare. They are headquartered in Basel in Switzerland. They operate in tens of countries as well. They are really global as a company. The treasury team, the Novartis is very significant. You have a lot of currency exposures and Novartis still has the specificity that they manage themselves their pension fund, which gives another flavor to the, to the treasury function at Novartis. So you are really exposed to a lot of various topics when you enter a company like that.

And you mentioned sort of going home with a headache, obviously take some of their local products, they'll get rid of it. So that's a good idea. You sort of on that upward curve. Any tips for yourself, any, any things that you look back on? I think glad I did that or maybe I should have done this a little bit more. And you know, so again we, we try and use the show where people listening can think, right, I should do it like that or I should do it like Bryce did, You know, like some people said, yeah, they went out and met everyone they could or they had a really good notebook or what sort of tips would you give to people reflecting on that period?

I think the main thing is that you should be open minded, you should not be scared of learning, you should develop your academic skills. And this is also what I've done constantly over my career. And you should learn as well from the others. I mean there are lots of experts around you and you should really tap into their knowledge in order to keep developing your own knowledge. And I think this is really key.

And you said you were keen on the academics as well. What sort of, if you're looking at a seesaw, you know, a lot of people say well, I'm qualified by experience. What, what sort of, is it a 50, 50 mix between academics and experience? Or would you say One then leads on to the other. Or what's the sort of balance would you say?

I would say that one leads to the other. You know, you, you first. When I joined Novartis I first developed by learning, by doing effectively and then you notice that you have a gap in your knowledge and you then go and get some external certification. After a few years of being a Treasury Controller, I noticed that my knowledge in cash management was not as developed as it should be. And then I passed the certificate in International Cash Management which gave me a really solid basis in that topic as well. And I came back from that training with fresh ideas that we implemented at Novartis in the future years. At that time it was in House bank and Payment Factory and this is exactly what we have implemented in, in the future years at Novaltis within Treasury itself.

And question I often ask, but people make the moves. You know, you say you start as a Treasury analyst manager, become a Treasury controller, maybe then become assistant deputy and then start to be a treasurer. Did you always think actually I'm going to aim for a treasurer position or were you still just getting to know it at the time? Something the industry that is.

Yeah. When, when I joined the whole time I made at Novartis I used to, I worked as a Treasury in Treasury Control. So first as a team member and, and then I became a head of Treasury Control and I made my whole career there. And then at that point you reach a time where you think okay, the treasury team in, in such corporate is so big that you have little possibilities and when you're, you're recognized as an expert in your area, the tendency is that you will stay in, in this area. And this is why I made the decision and I got the opportunity to join another corporate which was smaller but have a bigger role in this corporate. This is why I made the move.

And we're going to go on to that because I think it's fantastic in these any listeners today, again, great value for free. Amazing. But when you actually you're in that role in Treasury Control, that's obviously very firmly a middle office type role. Would that be the right way to describe it within Novartis?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

New explain for some of the listeners now senior listeners are going, yeah, well I know middle office but they've got to take themselves back to that stage because we've got people here a treasure, you know, they might be a back office treasury analyst and they're going well I'm in the back office, you know. Yeah, this isn't the most interesting role and it's not, but it's actually one of the foundation cornerstones, if you like, of your experience and then use the back office, then you know what the back office does. So when you're working in the middle office, you know, not to pass rubbish to the back office, you know, do it really well for them and then actually you could then continue your career and maybe, oh, actually I'm in middle office, I'll make a move into the front office. Which does actually happen, I think heck of a lot more than when I first started my treasury recruitment career with yourself. Did you find that, you know, looking back on it, reflecting and how big was Novartis as a Treasury team?

I think it was roughly 25 to 30 people. Especially as well, because Novartis is managing its own pension fund. And actually coming back to your point, I think you're perfectly right. One of the main topics when you enter treasury is, and that's always been my point of view, you need to know how the engine is working.

Yes.

By saying that you need to know in detail the processes, you need to know how cash management works, you need to know how the trade develops in the system and so on and so forth. And after a few years you've done that, you can really start connecting all the dots and getting to know, okay, if I change this in a system, it will have this impact on the currency exposure, for example, or on the performance calculation for the pension fund. And only when you know exactly how the engine works, you can really go the next step and run bigger projects that have a bigger impact on the overall organization.

And that's exactly what you did. And great, great point, well made. So it's nearly like we planned this but we didn't surprise you then. Then made the move from Novartis. Talk us through that because. Exactly right. You'd filled in all the, the foundations and then it was, you know, to, to lead your own Treasury. What was that like?

Yeah, actually at one point in your career you have to decide do, do you want to, to keep second role in the bigger organization or do you want at one point to get the first role in a smaller organization? And for me, the answer was the second choice. So I joined Puma Energy in 2016 as the head of Treasury. I knew that the company was obviously less organized than Novartis, coming from a different industry and a different stage of development, if I can say. But that was as well. The challenge for me was to say, okay, let's go in a smaller organization and see how well I can perform, having the first role.

And what was that like? You know, what were the challenges for you to make that step up?

There were many challenges. You change company, it's already a first challenge. Then you change the industry. Going from healthcare to more oil, mid and downstream, that's another challenge. By changing company, you also have to adapt to another culture. And as well, one of the main changes was, was the following. At Novartis, I had become head of controls because I was a team member and then I got a promotion. So I knew everyone, I knew all the systems. When you join a new company as the head of treasury, you have to learn everything from day one. So you have to know your team members, you have to know the company culture, you have to know the system, how it works, what are the challenges, how the team is organized, how the business is organized, because the business organization plays a role in your treasury organization. And this, when you come as a new joiner, these are all these challenges at the same time. So you have to ensure that daily business still operates properly. And you have to ensure as well that you're bringing your own improvements along the time and that you don't disrupt anything.

And with that, you know, you'd seen a size of Treasury, 35 plus, you know, people, and then when you made the move, what was the size of the team there? How did you then decide to organize it? You know, and think, you know, because you come in, you, right, this is, this is your own baby now. So, right, got a good front office or we're gonna outsource some of it, or how. How did you then think, right, this is how we're going to structure it?

I, I noticed when I joined that there was not so much structure. And then coming from 13 years at Novartis, where you have a lot of structure, this was quite a change for me. So I wanted to bring more structure, define clearly the roles in order to avoid that everybody does a bit of everything. So I rewrote the job profiles and the job descriptions and I really assigned one main responsibility to each person. And I think it worked better like that.

Again, can you talk us through puma? Because you've gone from healthcare to puma, how did you deal with that? You know, Treasury's Treasury. Right? You know, there's no, you know, there's no difference. I know there are differences. How. How was it like? What was it like for you as differences?

Oh, there are lots of differences. I mean, at Novartis, doing control cash management, I was not so much involved or Related to, to the business at Puma, it was exactly the opposite. You know, we, we had a trading desk purchasing product, then we had to fund the working capital. We had to fund acquisitions in case there were acquisitions at the same time. We needed to ensure that we were properly positioned in terms of cash, that we had the cash in the right jurisdictions. So it was much more hands on and directly linked to the business compared to what I had experienced at Novaltis.

And then talk us through the development and then the move on from that role. Because I know that sort of you were there for a period of time and then sort of moved on.

I was there for two years. It was a great experience. I learned a lot especially as well, because the team was not so big in terms of number of people. So I had to invest a lot of time already in international treasury funding affiliates across the globe. I had to learn much more details about currency hedging, balance sheet hedging, which I did not know from my time at Novartis. And then I had the opportunity to join alcon, which is actually a spin off of Novartis. I decided then to embark on this new challenge.

And what was it about this new challenge that came along?

This new challenge was really about starting something completely new. Alcon till 2019 was a division of Novartis and as such it didn't have any corporate functions. In this division. Being an independent company especially one of the functions that needed to be built was, was the treasury function and it needed to be built from scratch. So I joined this treasury team not at the head of treasury, but as the head of Control because it was recognized as well that it was as well one of my main competencies. And I decided to, to join there.

Yes, and talk us through because, you know, what was the structure of Treasury? Again, you've got this strength in structuring and structuring Treasury. What was it like for you?

It was very interesting because it was really starting from blank sheets, if I can say so together with the treasurer, we discussed in order to build the structure of the team, so the different roles, how they were organized, the reporting lines and then as well in terms of treasury system. When I arrived, the treasury system was still being developed, but we were far from being ready and only in a few months is we needed to be fully operational and be able to run the treasury function normally, meaning do cash forecasts, do currency hedging, be compliant for all the processes. So we had to build all the processes from scratch. And that was really a very challenging time. But A very interesting time as well.

You went in a controls role but then, you know, stepped up if you like. Again, what's it like? Not the role per se, but you've gone back to, you know, from a large group, sort of more medium sized group to then back to a large group, knowing that you'll be the global treasury person Director, as it were. You know, you've got this experience. What do you think if you're operating on that global scale is important?

Operating on a global scale? I think what is important is to know how you want to operate. You know, both Novartis and Alcon are really centralized treasury functions. And this is also how I like to run the treasury function. Be as centralized as you can be because that's the way you can really get a complete view about the activities. And for me this is as well the way you get the best risk management possible.

I'm sitting and shutting up because I'm just loving the lessons you're giving to everyone. Bryce. And so talk us about, you know, the. You became the global head of treasury back in 2020. Then did anything happen in the world? But you know, we put our feet up really just, you know, treasury turn to handle. Thanks very much. You know, pandemic. A couple of other things happening in the meantime.

Exactly. I got, I got promoted in July 2020 during, during the lockdown. So it was, was quite challenging but it was very interesting at the same time because you, you get to manage a team without being able to meet physically your team members. At that time as well, I reorganized or I reshuffled a bit the cards to adapt the treasury organization. After two years I had been able to see what was working well and what could have been improved. So I brought in these improvements. So I also managed to implement a few changes in the treasury organization itself without meeting my team members. But at that time then you have to be creative in order to still keep a close contact with, with your team members without being able to physically meet them.

We literally just as a firm, we did a hybrid working stroke virtual webinar yesterday just about this very topic. What, what would you say was key? I know that when I spoke to Carl at Deloitte he talked about having a regular meeting throughout lockdown. One at 9am, one at 2. Make sure people weren't wearing the pajamas. He didn't just do it for that. So what he did was actually to produce a very strong team feel that has then continued post lockdown. They still have a regular meeting structure but it wasn't again you must be in this meeting. It was like, no, let's be in this meeting so we can, you know, collaborate, so we can be part of a team. So you're not just individuals. And that was one of the things I probably didn't get enough over on the, the chat yesterday. So for you, having gone through this, how was that for you? How did you make that work?

If you're not able to meet people physically, you need to have, let's say, two types of meetings. You will have the meetings that are more focused on getting the job done. So you have a list of objectives and you should not lose sight of your objectives that have been defined at the end, at the beginning of the year. And you should have a second type of meetings, which is more fun meetings where you just discuss with the people about whatever you want, but not anything related to the office, because that's the only way you can keep building the bond with your guys.

I'm sat here listening, I'm loving it. That's why we've got some nice gaps, because you're giving some great value bombs for the guys out there. And then Bryce, as we move forward, we're now out of pandemic. We're back to a new, the new kind of normal again. That's a good question for you. How many days a week are you then asking to meet up or what's the structure going forward?

So at the moment we are still having a flexible working environment where people are requested to come to the office three days per week, can work from home two days per week. In, in a few weeks we will come back to another situation where people will be requested to come to the office four days per week and be able to work from home normally on a Friday. Of course, we, we always have the flexibility if people have a personal appointment, for example, we, we can manage on, on a case by case basis, but the general rule will be four days in the office and, and one day.

At home and then going forward, you know, what are you, what are you seeing as the next challenges for treasury per se that, you know, what are you thinking? Right? The, these are the things we need to plan for. I know that, you know, you go to various conferences and it's about cyber, it's about this, about this, about different things. What are the one, the things that are keeping you, keeping an eye on, not really nervous about, but you think you need to be aware of with the team?

Yeah, I think two things, you know, you have the global trends for treasury and the more and more you see that treasury is integrated with the business so trying to find solutions to improve the working capital be it on the receivable or on the payable side for alcon. You know I think we are still a young company. We are only four years old. We have been able to achieve a lot and credit to the team really because it's not something you can do on your own. We are 20 people in treasury at Alcon and all these guys have been working really, really hard over the last four years in order to achieve a lot. But still we are young and at the moment what we are busy working on is a strategic plan in order to determine where we want to bring treasury in the next three to five years because we still have a lot to do.

And what is that three to five year vision? Without giving secrets away but what do you think this might be a topic that you and I talk about or we're dragged into a conference session, say that perfect treasury looks like this or looks similar to this. What would you say?

I would say we need to be more opportunistic about the technologies we use. Probably we haven't reached yet the level of automation we could have. Definitely we need to be doing more business partnering so having a look at countries where it's complicated or challenging to do business business and see how treasury can bring a contribution. We need to be as well much more aligned with other functions finance functions within within the organization so be it MNA to be able to find flexible and and flexible ways to to fund the company. So these are the main topics we, we want to be working on in, in the next few months or years.

Without deep diving too much Bryce but you mentioned about automation and it's an interesting one. We, we do our salary survey now and we I was it's probably the closest treasurers like yourself have been quite inspirational to it that the more that we could automate our salary Survey go to treasurysalary.com Take part, you know but then now it's automated so someone comes in, they take part. Yeah it goes to Holly, she approves it checks the person approved. Boom. Then immediately it automates and sends out not manually it automates and sends out a copy of the salary survey to someone. They get it straight away. We can run the figures now we can just dump them into and I'd love to automate that process even more but again with yourself as a Treasury professional automation really. And people in the past have said oh you know it's going to replace us. Never replaces. I've always Found it just supplements people's roles and actually means that you can do more with less in a good way. Have you found that yourself?

Yeah. I think you're never done automating everything that the computer can do. You should automate, really. And the idea is not to do the same quantity of work with less people, it's to have the same size of the team and achieve more so and as well, it's not only on the treasury side, but in alcon. We are fortunate enough that we have only one ERP system now, but we don't. According to me, we are not benefiting enough yet from the fact that we have only one erp. Let me just take one example example. If I have an intercompany loan between one of my entities in Switzerland and another entity, let's say in Malaysia today, I record some entries on the Swiss side and another team will record the mirror entries on the Malaysian side. This all should be automated. If I enter an intercompany loan into my treasury system, all the bookings should be triggered automatically for me. That's really the objective.

How are you going to achieve that? Again, I'm sure again you're talking to other treasury professionals about how they do it. Any ways that you particularly found that are effective and that you've talked to other peers and they said, yeah, we do it this way or what are you thinking?

Yeah, I think you need to have a very robust treasury system. You need to build robust interfaces between your treasury system and ERP and ensure that you have the right controls in place. Because if you start booking across multiple entities in the world, you don't want to mess the accounting piece because it would impact the whole group. So if you manage to have all that, you are on the good way to be successful and as well you need a lot of alignment and coordination with other teams or finance functions like FRA for example, which is key. But if you are able to do all that, that's really when it gets interesting and that's where you have the biggest impact on the organization.

We're not quite at the end of the show but we're approaching it team wise. Just going back to the people aspect for a moment, if we could. I know that's a strength of yourself. When we had this in the, the pre call, if you like people wise and management, you know, you've got 20 plus people or whatever across multiple locations. What's your, you know, any, any tips for. We obviously we're the recruitment company but we don't really bring it up on the podcast, because it's not a sales podcast. It's about you treasury professionals. But the key aspect we're talking about, as we just talked there, about hybrid, about people, about and without, you know, don't forget, if all the people disappeared, this stuff wouldn't happen. They can't automate everything. You can automate lots of it. But it still needs to be, you know, the people are the key things and the people listening today, you are the key people that make this stuff work. Bryce, you know, with yourself, what's your sort of people management ethos is or what sort of tips would you give to other people listening today?

You know, when I was still a team member, and it dates back from years ago, I always noted what I appreciated about my manager and what I would have liked my manager to do differently. And today I try to be the manager I would have liked to have when I was a team member. And if I can also do. Another parallel is I see my role as a football coach. You know, I'm not here to tell everyone exactly what they should do, because in a lot of cases, my team members know at least as well as I do how they should do. But I'm just here to ensure that the team plays at its best and has the best organization so that everyone can really give its full potential.

The summary of the parts is greater than the whole as well. And read that a few times as well, that if you there, as you say, not the manager as the coach, and you can sort of, you can provide all the opportunity for success and then it's up to them to do the work. That's fantastic. LinkedIn. We'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes so people can connect to you. I know there'll be a rafter people going, right, yeah, great. This guy's great. Let's connect. Bryce, what sort of takeaways would you give? I mean, that was a great one there. Just about being, you know, thinking back to your earlier experiences about how you would have liked to be treated. That's a good one already. But other ones and other tips for anyone listening, maybe if they're early years of their career or a bit later on in their career. What are the takeaways you're going to give from today's show, if you would?

For me, one of the main takeaways, if I look back, is really, you should always be willing to learn. I mean, the learning is never finished. Even, even today. You have new technologies, you have new opportunities, and I keep learning every day and that's what makes the job very interesting as well. You should always understand that in order to be successful, you are not successful on your own. You are successful as a team. And you are successful as well when teams work and collaborate together. And for me, if you understand these two things, learning and collaborating, then then you're in a good way to be.

Successful and we'll leave it there. The learning and collaborating with the team. I've just written team on the sheet three times. I think it's all about the team and you know, you can't, can't do it without the team and but I think also I wouldn't want to underestimate your previous comment about being a coach to the team. Not just the leader, but also the coach. You provide the opportunity and they take them. Bryce, Amazing to chat to you, sir. We'll put the LinkedIn details and show notes and another great podcast. Thank you, sir. Much appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Thanks.

Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending on where you listen, whether that's itunes, Spotify or another great place to listen to the show from. It's totally free and means that you'll be the first to see each and every week when we release a new show. And maybe whilst you're there, you could even leave a quick review. Reviews and ratings are among the most important metrics for a podcast to effectively rank. And as you can probably appreciate, the podcast is a lot of hard work to produce. Every week it'd be amazing. Just take, say, 20 seconds, leave a quick review of my amazing guests and their great career stories.

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