Building Skills and Staying Adaptable with Brice Zimmermann

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to them about how they've built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show. In this week's show delights to be joined by Bryce Zimmerman, global head of treasury at Alcon. Alcon is a global leader in eye care dedicated to helping people see brilliantly. With a Heritage Spanning over 75 years, they offer the broadest portfolio of products to enhance sight and improve people's lives. Truly global. They work in 60 countries, serving patients in over 140 countries. Long history of industry first which we'll get a bit more into the company as always with Bryce and he can explain was like for him as a Treasury professional there but as always we're going to start with his origin story if you like and apologies to listeners, you can hear Bryce is going to sound amazing. He's got a great microphone. I've got a bit of a cold so when you're listening to this, just bear with with, you know, we'll try and tweak it in the after edit but I'm still going to sound like I've got cold because I've got a cold there. There you go. Get out of there. Bryce, if you would, back to you origin story, if you would. How did you first discover finance and then move into Treasury? Over to you, sir.

So basically already as a student I always wanted to work in finance and at the very beginning of my career I chose audit as I thought it was a good way to already start working but still be on a learning path. When you start your career as an auditor, you change clients regularly and you see different ways how companies are organized and this is a very great way to keep learning and developing your skills.

Some of the guys coming out of university, oh he go, here's a position in audit. Like really audit sounds a bit boring. You didn't find it that I remember I'm looking at my show notes and you actually really found it a good way to understand what's going on under the bonnet, as it were. Was that right?

Yeah, exactly. You get to see a lot of clients and the same topics are treated differently by different clients. As I started in Luxembourg, I worked very much in the fund industry. I had the opportunity to audit a corporate as well and many banks and it was really, really very interesting to see the different cultures and different accounting treatments as well for the same Topics. So this is what I found interesting.

And a good place to start as well. Luxembourg, lovely city, lovely. Lovely country, Lovely everything.

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Basically, as a French student, you have the choice between Paris, which is obviously a natural place if you want to start your career in auditing, or as I studied in the eastern part of France, Luxembourg was as well, quite a natural choice. And as you at that time there were more than 200 banks in Luxembourg. I chose that area and it's great.

Because it's a really international environment. So you got that exposure and then the next move back to you, the.

Next move was moving to a bank actually in Luxembourg because I wanted to see the real stuff. You know, the good part as an auditor is that you gather a lot of experience. The more frustrating part is that you come to a client, you make recommendations, you're never sure that they will be effectively implemented. Moving to a banking sector or to the other side, you effectively see challenges, you see opportunities, you get to develop, you get to work on projects and go from there and keep building on the projects you've implemented to develop the system further. And this is what I really enjoyed. And then the next move was that I actually was lucky enough to pass a diploma of financial analysis. This gave me broader knowledge in the finance spectrum and that was really a key step for my next move, which was then to move to Treasury.

Had you heard about treasury by that stage or was it brand new to you? Or someone said, here you go, here's treasury, what's Treasury?

No, it was really brand new for me. I had studied a lot of economics, derivatives, bond equities and so. But effectively working in a Treasury department for a big corporate like Novartis was brand new to me. I knew nothing about treasury and how what treasury really does. It was a great move for me because since then I have really enjoyed every day coming to the office.

What was it like being, you know, that fresh face within Treasury? You came along and it was like, all the treasury is new, but you're then working in a. As treasure controller in a global multinational. How did you sort of. Again, this is advice. If I'm thinking about myself with some of the listeners, they're going crumbs. That's what I'm about to do, or that's what I'd like to do, but it's a little bit daunting, you know, how did you get over that?

If you like, you have to be really open minded and show a lot of willingness to learn and be motivated because every day you come to the office and for a few months you learn so much from your colleagues and by as well re going into your books that you studied before you come back home in the evening and you have a huge headache because it's been so much you needed to assimilate during the day. But it was really fun and we.

You know, a lot of us know Novartis but could you give, you know, a lot of people don't know Novartis. So for someone that's fresh and say hi, I'm a Treasury controller at Novartis. Who can you explain who and what they did and the dimensions of your role that then we'll explore a bit more.

On the treasury side, Novartis is one of the global leaders in healthcare. They are headquartered in Basel in Switzerland. They operate in tens of countries as well. They are really global as a company. The treasury team, the Novartis is very significant. You have a lot of currency exposures and Novartis still has the specificity that they manage themselves their pension fund which gives a lot of flavor to the, to the treasury function at Novaltis. So you are really exposed to a lot of various topics when you enter a company like that.

And you mentioned sort of going home with a headache. Obviously take some of their local products, they'll get rid of it. So that's a good idea. You sort of on that upward curve. Any tips for yourself, any, any things that you look back on? I think glad I did that or maybe I should have done this a little bit more. And you know, so again we, we try and use the show where people listening can think, right, I should do it like that or I should do it like Bryce did. You know, like some people said, yeah, they went out and met everyone they could or they had a really good notebook or what sort of tips would you give to people reflecting on that period?

I think the main thing is that you should be open minded, you should not be scared of learning, you should develop your academic skills. And this is also what I've done constantly over my career. And you should learn as well from the others. I mean there are lots of experts around you and you should really tap into their knowledge in order to keep developing your own knowledge. And I think this is really key.

And you said you were keen on the academics as well. What sort of, if you're looking at a seesaw, you know, a lot of people said well, I'm qualified by experience. What, what sort of. Is it a 50, 50 mix between academics and experience? Or would you say one then leads on to the other. Or what's the sort of balance would you say?

I would say that one leads to the other. You know, you, you first. When I joined Novartis, I first developed by learning, by doing effectively and then you notice that you have a gap in your knowledge and you then go and get some external certification. After a few years of being a Treasury Controller, I noticed that my knowledge in cash management was not as developed as it should be. And then I passed the certificate in International Cash Management which gave me a really solid basis in that topic as well. And I came back from that training with fresh ideas that we implemented at Novartis in the future years. At that time it was in House bank and Payment Factory and this is exactly what we have implemented in the future years at Novaltis within Treasury itself.

And question I often ask, but people make the moves. You know, you say you start as a Treasury analyst, manager, become a Treasury controller, maybe then become assistant Deputy and then start to be a treasurer. Did you always think actually I'm going to aim for a treasurer position or were you still just getting to know it at the time? Something the industry, that is.

Yeah. When I joined, the whole time I made at Novartis, I used to, I worked as a Treasury in Treasury Control, so first as a team member and then I became a head of Treasury Control and I made my whole career there. And then at that point you reach a time where you think, okay, the treasury team in such corporate is so big that you have little possibilities and when you're, you're recognized as an expert in your area, the tendency is that you will stay in, in this area. And this is why I made the decision and I got the opportunity to join another corporate which was smaller but have a bigger role in this corporate. This is why I made the move.

And we're going to go on to that because I think it's fantastic in these. Any listeners today getting great value for free. Amazing. But when you actually you're in that role in Treasury Control, that's obviously very firmly a middle office type role. Would that be the right way to describe it within Novartis?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Can you explain for some of the listeners now, senior listeners are going, yeah, well I know middle office, but they've got to take themselves back to that stage because we've got people here at Treasure, you know, they might be a back office treasury analyst and they're going, well I'm in the back office, you know. Yeah, this isn't the most interesting role and it's not, but it's actually one of the foundation cornerstones, if you like, of your experience and then use the back office, then you know what the back office does. So when you're working in the middle office, you know not to pass rubbish to the back office. And I do it really well for them. And then actually you could then continue your career and maybe, oh, actually I'm in middle office, I'll make a move into the front office. Which does actually happen, I think heck of a lot more than when I first started my treasury recruitment career. With yourself, did you find that, you know, looking back on it, reflecting and how big was Novartis as a Treasury team?

I think it was roughly 25 to 30 people. Especially as well, because Novartis was managing, is managing its own pension fund. And actually coming back to your point, I think you're perfectly right. One of the main topics when you enter treasury is, and that's always been my point of view, you need to know how the engine is working.

Yes.

By saying that you need to know in detail the processes, you need to know how cash management works, you need to know how the trade develops in the system and so on and so forth. And after a few years you've done that, you can really start connecting all the dots and getting to know, okay, if I change this in a system, it will have this impact on the currency exposure, for example, or on the performance calculation for the pension fund. And only when you know exactly how the engine works, you can really go the next step and run bigger projects that have a bigger impact on the overall organization.

And that's exactly what you did. And Great, great point, well made, sir. It's nearly like we planned this but we didn't surprise you then then made the move from Novartis. Talk us through that because. Exactly right. You'd filled in all the, the foundations and then it was, you know, to, to lead your own Treasury. What was that like?

Yeah, actually at one point in your career you have to decide do, do you want to, to keep second role in a bigger organization or do you want at one point to get the first role in a smaller organization? And for me, the answer was the second choice. So I joined Puma Energy in 2016 as the head of Treasury. I knew that the company was obviously less organized than Novotis, coming from a different industry and a different stage of development, if I can say. But that was as well. The challenge for me was to say, okay, let's, let's go in a smaller organization and see how well I can perform, having the first role.

And what was that like? You know, what were the challenges for you to make that step up?

There were many challenges. You change company, it's already a first challenge. Then you change the industry. Going from healthcare to more oil, mid and downstream, that's another challenge. By changing company, you also have to adapt to another culture. And as well, one of the main changes was, was the following. At Novartis, I had become head of controls because I was a team member and then I got a promotion. So I knew everyone, I knew all the systems. When you join a new company as the head of treasury, you have to learn everything from day one. So you have to know your team members, you have to know the company culture, you have to know the system, how it works, what are the challenges, how the team is organized, how the business is organized, because the business organization plays a role in your treasury organization. And this, when you come as a new joiner, these are all these challenges at the same time. So you have to ensure that daily business still operates properly. And you have to ensure as well that you're bringing your own improvements along the time and that you don't disrupt anything.

And with that, you'd seen a size of Treasury, 35 plus, you know, people. And then when you made the move, what was the size of the team there? How did you then decide to organize it? You know, and think, you know, because you come in, you, right, this is. This is your own baby now. So, right, got a good front office or we're gonna outsource some of it, or how. How did you then think, right, this is how we're going to structure it?

I. I noticed when I joined that there was not so much structure. And then coming from 13 years at Novartis, where you have a lot of structure, this was quite a change for me. So I wanted to bring more structure, define clearly the roles in order to avoid that everybody does a bit of everything. So I rewrote the job profiles and the job descriptions and I really assigned one main responsibility to each person. And I think it worked better like that.

Can you talk us through puma? Because you've gone from healthcare to puma, how did you deal with that? You know, Treasury's treasury, right? You know, there's no, you know, there's no difference. I know there are differences. How. How was it like? What was it like for you as differences?

Oh, there are lots of differences. I mean, at Novartis, doing control cash management, I was not so much involved or related to the Business at Puma, it was exactly the opposite. You know, we had a trading desk purchasing products, then we had to fund the working capital. We had to fund acquisitions in case there were acquisitions at the same time. We needed to ensure that we were properly positioned in terms of cash, that we had the cash in the right jurisdictions. So it was much more hands on and directly linked to the business compared to what I had experienced at Novartis.

And then talk us through the development and then the move on from that role, because I know that sort of you were there for a period of time and then sort of moved on.

I was there for two years. It was a great experience. I learned a lot, especially as well, because the team was not so big in terms of number of people. So I had to invest a lot of time already in international treasury funding affiliates across the globe. I had to learn much more details about currency hedging, balance sheet hedging, which I did not know from my time at Novartis. And then I had the opportunity to join alcon, which is actually a spin off of Novartis. I decided then to embark on this new challenge.

And what was it about this new challenge that came along?

This new challenge was really about starting something completely new. Alcon till 2019 was a division of Novartis and as such, it didn't have any corporate functions in this division. And being an independent company, especially one of the functions that needed to be built was the treasury function and it needed to be built from scratch. So I joined this treasury team not at the head of treasury, but as the head of Control, because it was recognized as well that it was as well one of my main competencies. And I decided to join there.

Yes, and talk us through because, you know, what was the structure of Treasury? Again, you've got this strength in structuring and structuring Treasury. What was it like for you?

It was very interesting because it was really starting from blank sheets, if I can say so together with the treasurer, we discussed in order to build the structure of the team, so the different roles, how they were organized or reporting lines, and then as well, in terms of treasury system. When I arrived, the treasury system was still being developed, but we were far from being ready and only in a few months is when needed to be fully operational and be able to run the treasury function normally, meaning do cash forecasts, do currency hedging, be compliant for all the processes. So we had to build all the processes from scratch. And that was really a very challenging time, but a very interesting time as well.

You went in a controls role, but then stepped up if you like. Again, what's it like? Not the role per se, but you've gone back to, you know, from a large group to a sort of more medium sized group to then back to a large group, knowing that you'll be the global treasury person, Director, as it were. You know, you've got this experience. What do you think if you're operating on that global scale is important?

Operating on a global scale? I think what, what is important is to know how you want to operate. You know, both Novartis and ALCON are really centralized treasury functions. And this is also how I like to run the treasury function. Be as centralized as you can be because that's the way you can really get a complete view about the activities. And for me, this is as well the way you get the best risk management possible.

I'm sitting and shutting up because I'm just loving the lessons you're giving to everyone. Bryce. And so talk us about, you know, the. You became the global head of treasury back in 2020. Then did anything happen in the world? You know, we put our feet up, really just, you know, treasury turned a handle. Thanks very much. You know, pandemic. A couple of other things in the meantime.

Exactly. I got, I got promoted in July 2020 during, during the lockdown. So it was, was quite challenging. But it was very interesting at the same time because you, you get to manage a team without being able to meet physically your team members. At that time as well, I reorganized or I reshuffled a bit the cards to adapt the treasury organization. After two years I had been able to see what was working well and what could have been improved. So I brought in these improvements. So I also managed to implement a few changes in the treasury organization itself without meeting my team members. But at that time, then you have to be creative in order to still keep a close contact with your team members without being able to physically meet them.

We literally, just as a first.