Embracing Change and Diversity in Treasury with Adesola Orimalade

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to them about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next, let's get on with the show. This week's show, delighted to be joined by Adesola Oromolade, the director of treasure@kiwi kiwi.com Innovative travel tech solutions for both customers and businesses. We'll get into that in the a bit later on in the show because obviously travel industry post pandemic has been a tough time but he's got through it. But actually there's so much more about Adesola that I think we're going to focus on today. You'll see on his LinkedIn profile we've got as well as dad and all the other different things he does. You know, we were just talking before the show about Saturday morning coaching program he's giving to university students. We've got all these different areas which we're going to explore as well as his role as a treasurer. But anyway, again, as you guys know, listening, I'm going to shut up. I'm going to let Adesola do the talking. Take us back, sir, to how you first started in finance, then treasury, but also you started in banking. So back to you, sir, how did you first ever start?

Thanks Mike, for having me on the show. Going back all those years, I got into banking strictly by accident. So when, when I left university, my whole thought process at a point was to work for an agency of United nations or one of those organizations that focused on developing cities. I was quite keen. So growing up, you know, I would see the pictures of these slums and the shanty towns in different parts of Africa, Nairobi and in South Africa and even in Nigeria. And I was fascinated. I was driven to be a part of the solution to that. So I went to university, I studied estate management and that was really what my focus on working for maybe shelter free, for example. And then a friend of mine who we went to university together told me about Citibank. We're doing interviews for entry level positions and I went in to do the interview, didn't really think I would pass and one thing led to another and I was offered a role. So I went into banking and I went into national banking again. When I walked into Citibank in Nigeria the very first day, my whole idea about banking was marketing or customer service. I'd never heard of trade finance, never heard of treasury operations in my life. And there I was in international trade, suddenly dealing with payments and were buying and selling abroad. And that was the progression. I had to start getting to interface with treasury operations because they are closely linked. Trade finance, doing the import, export, letters of credit, bank guarantees and then on the other side doing the FX and the money market deals. That was how I got to know about treasury in the first place, through working for Citibank.

So Adesano, was that your first exposure to treasury as it were, that you started see trade finance and you started to get a bit of exposure to it or how did it come about?

Well, that was my first exposure to treasury, broadly speaking, because there was a lot of interface between trade finance as you'd be margin and treasury in those days we had quite a lot of customers. For example, there were exporters, so they were selling their products abroad and getting foreign exchange coming in. And then we also had a lot of customers who are buying goods from abroad, who had to buy foreign exchange from the central bank because of the exchange control regulation in place at that time. And BD Trade finance. I was involved in either buying those, helping them buy those FX from the government or from Citibank itself, or selling the FX so that it could turn that into Naira for those who are exporting. So that was my first real interface with Treasury. And then of course there were also customers who had large deposits who'd be doing placements. So there are a lot of deposits and core deposits and fixed term deposits by different kinds of customers. So that was my fixed exposure to treasury from a banking perspective.

And then talk us through the next couple of moves before you then moved into corporate treasury, the proper area of Treasury.

So when I was in Citibank for a few years and then I went on to work for Standard Chartered bank, when they came into Nigeria, they came back into Nigeria because they were in previously but they had to leave and then they came back. So I was part of the pioneer set, opened the office in Nigeria in late 90s and then I was recruited to be head of Trade Finance. But because it was such a small team, I was then asked to be the backup to the head of treasury operations. So anytime she was out of the office, I'd back up for her. So that was a step up for me from just being part of the process to actually running the treasury operation process at that point. So there was a lot of interface between myself and the front desk which would do all the FX deals, keep the blotter, manage the positions and all that. And then also my team was doing FX reporting. So again, I started to get more involved in treasury and treasury operations.

And then you made the track. So that was a sort of a good grounding across. We talked about this before, the good grounding in all areas of corporate Treasury. But then you made the move internationally, didn't you as well. Talk us through what that was like.

For yourself growing up. One of the things that I really had from my dad was a belief in myself, that I could work anywhere in the world, I cooperate anywhere in the world. And growing up as a child, I was a big dreamer. I dreamt a lot. I had a lot of belief in myself. And I thought, you know what? There will come a time when I was able to move abroad to work and also give opportunities to my family. And that time came early 2000, when there was an opportunity to relocate to the UK under what they call the highly skilled migrant visa program. So I moved internationally to the uk. I didn't have a set job, so I was really transitioning to a new country. But what I wanted to do when I came here then was to go straight using my treasury experience, because I thought at that point, having a banking background as a foundation, overlaying that with the corporate treasury, kind of building up my structure on top of that will be quite interesting for employers in the uk. But I was totally wrong. So when I came over here, the mantra was, I didn't have the UK experience, even though I had all this experience, but they were not UK experience. So that was the first challenge that I had to face when I came here internationally again in the mid 2000s.

And you slowly built your experience at a number of roles before then really getting yourself that more treasury experience. Where would you say it sort of, you know, we talked about this before, that you were sort of building a portfolio of experiences, if that's the right way to talk it through. What was that like for you?

I always tell people, when you ask me one of the. What. What is one of the biggest achievements I've had in my career, we say I built my career twice, and that's exactly what I did. Because having risen to that level in Nigeria and then coming back, coming to the uk, I basically started from scratch when all those doors were closed again. That's an experience for another. Another story for another day when all those doors were shut in terms of, you know, you don't have UK experience, Like I said, I started to build up from scratch. So I went to join Marks and Spencer in their finance department and they slowly began to build it up because for me I was very comfortable with what I could deliver. But I needed to prove that I could do those things. And sometimes you have to step back to step forward. So that was fine by me. But I started to build up that experience by going into corporate finance again and building it up through Marks and Spencer and then went on to Unicom within Finance and Credit Control. And I started to build out again with the hope that that would transition me or would give me the kind of step up to go back into corporate Treasury. But you know, life doesn't always work that way as you plan it and.

Talk me through the. Then the other roles because again this portfolio idea, this, you know, when you then later on you found this really strong couple of roles within corporate treasury, if you like, you've got so much to draw on, you know, which is quite different. You were choosing the moves rather than like being forced upon you, jumping around, you know as much more about that. So talk us through because I think that's powerful.

So like I said, you made a valid point in terms of being structured. So when I went back into corporate finance to build that up and I started again hitting the next button which was you have UK experience but you don't have UK treasury experience. That became the next mantra. Again trying from there to get into treasury was pretty hard again because then the question then the issue was you've been in treasury but it is banking Treasury. So I went on to work for bank of America because bank of America was looking for someone to basically set up the trade finance for in Europe to mirror what they had in the US and what they had in Asia. So I was brought in to basically set up that organization within bank of America, but was a lot of trade finance. But then again because we had a lot of customers who were exporters, trade finance obviously deal with importers. I then again a lot of interface with treasury, with treasury operations within the treasurers within those organizations. So I was still within the space. And then when I decided to move in into corporate treasury there was again the others the same story again the fact that you've been in banking and how do we know you're able to operate within corporate Treasury? So an opening came up in John Lewis that they were looking for someone to come in on a contractual basis to look after cash management and account receivables. Even though it was a contract role and I was in a permanent role within banking, I made the deliberate and direct decision to go for that role. Even with the risk involved, because I felt that that would be a way for me to demonstrate that not only could I work in corporate credit, but I could be successful. And then from there other doors started to open too, because I took that chance, because I took that deliberate decision to make that step up with all the risk involved in it.

So you then back into your. Then got this role within corporate treasury because as you said, you built out all these other experiences within Hog Robinson and Travel. What was that like to join?

Hog Robinson was in Travel was a travel. It's still a travel organization bought by American Express Global Business Travel. And I joined at the time when there was a transition between being Hog Robinson and being taken over by American Express Global Business Travel. And I enjoyed that transition. It was my first real role as Head of Treasury within the uk. So there was quite a lot of learning to do. I was also managing a team, but I enjoyed that process. Unfortunately, there was. I was made redundant at the end because of the change that took place. But I. But I enjoyed. I enjoyed the learning that I had and the opportunity to continue to go on that journey into corporate Treasury.

What was it like, sort of drawing from. Again, you and I talked a little bit about this before the show, that this was your move back into proper corporate treasury, you know, was a proper corporate treasury role. What was. You know, I talk about this often on the show. You walked in. What was treasury like in there? You know, was it great? Let's set this up, let's do this. You know, what was it like for you?

There was quite a lot of things to do. There's a lot of setup because there were people were leaving and they had to bring in new people. So there was a period of. Of change and a period of reorganization. And also it wasn't a team that was full of a lot of people that had years and years of treasury experience. So I wasn't working to a team that full of a lot of experienced people. So there was quite a lot of change going on at the time when there was a bigger change going on within the organization, as you would imagine. But then again, for me, change itself has a lot of positives because you get not just to understand a lot, but you also understand a lot about yourself during that period. So for me, there were a lot of positive takeaways in my time with Hong Robinson.

Can you just give us a quick walk through then to the. Of bring us up to date sort of thing with the, you know, the past couple of roles.

So when I left Hog Robinson, I Went to work for Ofsted. Ofsted is a renewable energy company and it was a, it was a contract role. They were looking for someone basically to look after the credit management for a period because the organization was again going through a transition. There was going to be a part sale of the, of the business book and I was really brought in to manage that process again. I think one of the things that I've benefited from my career is what you find. You meet a lot of people within treasury, within finance, who have really been in silo. They are very good at what they do, but they've basically been doing the same thing for a very long time. Personally, I feel quite blessed that I have covered transactional finance, whether it's accounts payable, accounts receivable, treasury payments, name it, I've done it. So for me, when I walk into an organization, I look at myself as a business partner, somebody that can add value across different streams rather than just be someone who is good at one thing. So I took that role because I knew that was something that would be very successful. I'm really motivated to develop people. You know, working with people is something that drives me, I really enjoy. So that was a perfect role for me at that time. But before the role, the contract finished, I got my current role, which is working for Kiwi. Kiwi is a travel organization like you said, and I currently run treasury for Kiwi. We are based in the Czech Republic even though we're a global entity and my team is based in Czech Republic and I manage the team even though I'm based out of the UK and it's, it's a full launch corporate treasury role, both front, middle and back office are discovered by myself and my team. So you can't get very busy. And as we know, given what has gone on in the travel industry, it has been really challenging, it has been extremely busy and we've had to be very dynamic in reacting to the way government regulation has impacted the market or people's buying decisions are impacted by government decisions. So there's quite a lot that's gone on in the last 18 months. But I feel quite grateful again, if I can use that word, because I think when we look back over this period in years to come, there are people who worked in organization where we're not significantly impacted. But I feel really blessed to be in an organization, in an industry that's significantly impacted. And I've learned quite a lot, not just about myself, but about people, about putting organization, putting structure in place, reengineering, reorganizing because that's one of the areas where I have a lot of strength. The fact that I can't come into a place and put on the table all this experience I've gathered and begin to tap into it is something that I think employers find really useful for them.

And Asada, I want to get in there, just dig in a little bit more about the people. Because previously, as we said on the show, we actually. I did a YouTube panel session with a good friend of yours, Kemi Balarin. Amazing lady. Anthony Merson will put in the show notes. He. Anthony was with STA Travel. So you've been through it. But one of the key things we were talking about was at that time, that transition to people, you know, so I was working from home and with Kimmy, we were just like, wow. And she'd gone through this, you know, one day everyone in the office, the next day, everyone not in the office, you know, boom, you know, start to finish. Same with Anthony and, you know, is a key thing with him that got through it, got throughout the other side and, you know, you've been through some tough times, but how do you do that, people wise? Because I know there's a big theme about yourself and a lot about the people side of things. What was that like? You know, how did you, you know, manage remotely? Because again, so this is a very long sort of statement, if you like. But one of the key things as well, we. I talk to a lot of treasurers who have no coaching of people. They just like, get on, do the job, make sure the balance sheet is there, but actually, treasury is about so much more. And the people. What's that like for you? Because I know that's a big thing for you.

It has always been for me. I get really excited from the very first time I started managing people to now, I've not stopped loving it. And there are people that have managed or teams have led, team members, I've led years and years ago that we're still keeping good touch because, you know, we just build our relationship. It was very funny what happened with the pandemic, because then I was working for Ofsted, I had. I had a team in the office. And then there was a meeting, senior management meeting. It was decided that next day we will move to remote work. So one day we're in the office, next day everybody had to transition. But I think one thing I found quite useful in my many years of managing people is you need to build that relationship with people before you need it. You don't build it when you need them to make significant steps or to make changes, you build that relationship right at the onset. You build that trust, you build that rapport. And it's about caring about people. And I think nobody's perfect in it. I'm not going to sit here and say, I'm really perfect at it, but I understand the importance of caring about people so that they know that there's a sincerity in how you deal with them. So when we transitioned online, one of the things I've always been strong on, even now, is that we must not, as leaders and organization, fail to understand that some of the trauma that we've gone through in the last 18 months have not gone away. It hasn't manifested itself fully because we haven't really come to terms with what has happened to us. We're still in the middle of the pandemic. Whether we like it or not, we still have the new variant things that still evolving. And for me, last year, moving people online was again, making sure, for example, practical steps. It's not just talking the tub of walking. The work is to have constant meeting with people and checking on them. Not about the work, but checking on on them as individuals, encouraging them to take breaks. People that work for us should not be afraid to get off their desk and go for a walk because it's overwhelming for them. And those are some of the things that I was encouraging my team last year, even up to this year, is to if you need to take a break from your desk because we were stuck at home for a long part of 2020, please do that. You don't have to be there every time because you need to satisfy your boss, but also checking constantly just to make sure that people are okay and asking them, are you okay? And waiting for them to tell you. Not just asking because you feel you have to, but actually interested in the response that people are giving you.

In addition to your role as treasurer, he's written a children's book. That's what you normally say about a treasurer. Adesola on a Saturday morning, gives up his time and is running a program for university students to show them the way into Treasury. You've done all these different things and writing and contributed to Treasury Today. Talk me through the other stuff you've done. Why is that a driver? And maybe relate a couple of those, Because I want to dig into those a little bit as well.

One thing I alluded to beginning of my conversation, beginning of our conversation, is the fact that as somebody, when I was growing up, my dad was somebody that really impacted in me the belief and the confidence that I could achieve what I wanted. And I learned very early the power of dreaming. And for me, we restrict people sometimes, usually when they are in their formative years, whether they are very young or building their career, they are kind of restricted and they don't see all the possibilities out there. So for me, writing a children's book was a way of my contributing to this bigger picture of developing people and also from an early age, giving them the ability to dream and to imagine that they could be anything. Whether I'm spending my weekend impacting knowledge or I am sitting there writing a book, it's really about contributing to developing people, whether they are young, they are just starting their career, or even further down their career where they need someone to talk to. I've offered mentoring to people before. People have called me from different parts of the world where I have, and for free, I have spent part of my evening talking to them because you have questions about career, they have questions about whether volunteering. And I do that gracefully because it's something that I enjoy.

But you also do, you know, so you've. So you've written a children's book, then also you, you know, go to school, you sort of talk to those, and that's a key thing. And you. Then we talked about the university piece. Why do you think this is important to you as a, you know, that other listeners today could think, well, hang on, I'm really busy with my job, you're busy with your job. Why do you think that's so important?

For me, there are two things. So the first one for me is just what I've alluded to now, which is the fact that I think that I have been really blessed. I worked with some very great people. I've learned quite a lot in the different organizations I've worked. I don't know a lot of people like myself who has worked in banking, in treasury, for example, he's worked in banking. I worked in corporate treasury and can share both sides of the story. And for me, a few years ago, I made up my mind to start giving back to society, to start giving back, to live a life of purpose. And that. That drives me. That's one thing that drives me, and that's why I go out to share this knowledge. So when I go to university, I was in. I was in Germany a couple of weeks ago to talk to students in Cologne Business School. I do things like that. I volunteer with some, at least with one charity in the uk, where I am a Motivational speaker. I go to schools and I talk about Treasury, I talk about what I do. I am really motivated to do that because I think that the only way people would know about treasury as a career is if we talk about it. On the other hand, I read books, for example, again, like I said earlier, because there are stories there and kids from a very early age, we don't encourage enough of dreaming and books allow people to go to places they would never have gone in real life. But the other thing, again, which is very important, is that I think when you talk about people in finance, there's a view that we are all very highly strong. We're all about money, we're all about numbers, we're very good with spreadsheets and calculators. But there's the other side to us. And I want people that are not generally all into numbers and all that to also feel that they can, with the other soft skill, also be in finance, also work in treasure. Making a career out of it is by showing that there is diversity, encouraging diversity in our profession, encouraging diversity in thought and in action, that really drives me. And the fact that I would like to give something back, I would like to live a life of purpose. And I think I'm doing that now.

And when you're doing that through the things you do in treasury and things like that, you know, esg, climate change and those things, that's another thing with yourself, is that that's a key thing for you as a person, isn't it? And stuff. Why do you think that that's important to you?

It has been important for me for a few years. I'm very. There are certain subjects. Let me put this. There are certain subjects that are very close to my heart. There are things to do with climate change, protecting the environment I come from. I was brought up in Africa, I grew up in Africa. And I know the impact of some of the things that we do can affect the voiceless, the people who cannot really express themselves because they don't have that platform. I don't have a massive platform, but my platform is big enough for me to engage in this conversation, and I do that. And the other thing, again, too, is some of these things, I don't just want to be a sideline, somebody who is a bystander who just watches things happen around him and he complains about it. Some of the charities. I mean, currently I sit on the board of one of the citizens advice branches because that is an area that's important to me, helping people, being able to deal with social, economic inequality in whatever form, whether that be through education, whether that be lack of access to education, to health, to wealth inequality. All those things are important to me as a person and it's also a function of my background. I grew up in Africa and I've come down here and I think we all have a responsibility really to contribute to this conversation in whatever way we can.

And looking at the future of treasury, bringing it back to treasury, if you like, where do you see treasury developing to? Maybe you could mention also about the Saturday program that you did. And again, that was. I was really impressed with and, and stuff like that. Could you just explain that to the listeners as well?

When I look at treasury now, there's a lot of literature, there's a lot of conversation around the more technical stuff. People are looking forward to the future into forecasting and cash management, on how machine learning and how technology is going to influence that and make it easier, make it more accurate. And that is all great. I'm also looking at the other side. I'm looking at treasury, for example, how many people look and sound like me at senior level within Treasury? I don't see a lot. So when one of the drivers for me, in talking to Kemi and Kunle and Olu, in setting up the boot camp, the workshop we did for three weeks, treasury boot camp, was to see also how we could encourage diversity within Treasury. We would like to encourage people who would never be exposed to someone who has worked in treasury because. So if I take a step back, one of the things I found in my journey to treasury is I've not come across anyone that said to me, when I was growing up I wanted to work in Treasury. Everybody came into this profession purely by accident. At least the people I've met the closest is someone that says, oh, my dad used to be a treasurer or my mom used to work in Treasury. Most people say they got to treasury purely by accident. And I think we can change that story. We can encourage people who, especially in ethnic minority communities, as I would describe them, where people may not meet anyone who has worked in Treasury. It should take that story to them to say treasury is a profession you can grow. It's an international profession. There are different sides to it. And you don't, you know, there are opportunities within treasury for you. And that is part of the driver for us in running that. And I also think that that's something we need to continue to engage it, engage with in future. It's about creating diversity within the industry. But it's Also, again, about creating a pipeline of talent so that when universities are looking at where will our top performers go? Treasury should be part of what is on their mind. We should be there competing for the talent out there, not just waiting for them to come to us. And I think that there's room for that. There is space for us to engage at that level, whether through giving bursaries, whether through giving scholarship, whether through giving endowments, but creating that so that people will be thinking of treasury when they're stepping out of school, not as an afterthought or by accident.

One of the things I was going to add there is that's why I do the podcast. You know, I love talking to treasurers for 20 plus years. And, you know, people say, oh, you do a Treasury podcast? And some of my friends, you know, they're like, what's Treasury? And I think, well, just as one of the podcast episodes, then you'll find out. And, you know.

Exactly.

Now, as we wrap up every show each week, we then say, we'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes, which we will. What are the takeaways you're going to give to people today? They're listening, you know, on their way to or from work. You know, we used to have a.

Thing called a commute, but I don't.

Think that exists anymore. No, you know, what advice are you going to give to people?

I think the advice I'm going to give to people as we wrap up is the fact that there is, regardless of everything that is going on and things we have gone through, there are still massive opportunity, whether for young people to develop themselves, and there are massive opportunity for organizations to continue to engage with their communities. I do quite a lot of work within the voluntary and I encourage organizations to continue to engage with their communities, continue to engage with developing people, and for treasury as a profession, to make ourselves as relevant as possible. We hold the paw string. We understand our organization, how it works, and we can influence some of the decisions in terms of supporting communities, supporting development, supporting engagement with people so that we can be more relevant than we are. And I think that that is the takeaway for me, that is one of the things that drives the things that I do.

The key bit, the key behind here in there is relevance and support. And I think, yeah, absolutely.

Relevance and support. Yeah.

Great takeaway, sir. Thank you very much as always. We'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. Great to catch up. We'll catch up in the real world one day. You know, often say that And I can't wait. But it's starting to get back as we move into next year. But now we're looking forward to it and can't wait to see you. And thanks very much for your time today. You've been an absolute superstar.

Thank you, Mike. Thank you for having me on your show. Pleasure. Really pleased to be here. Thanks.

Thanks. Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending on where you listen, whether that's itunes, Spotify, or another great place to listen the show from. It's totally free. Free and means that you'll be the first to see each and every week when we release a new show. And maybe whilst you're there, you could even leave a quick review. Reviews and ratings are among the most important metrics for a podcast to effectively rank. And as you can probably appreciate, the podcast is a lot of hard work to produce. Every week it'd be amazing. Just take, say, 20 seconds, leave a quick review of my amazing guests and their great content, career stories. We'd really appreciate it. Thanks very much and I can't wait to see you soon.