Exploring the Multi-Dimensional Side of Treasury with Mark Fortkamp

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they've built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession. Going to next this week's show, I'm joined from the US by the lovely Mark Fordkamp, the treasurer at Performance Health. Performance Health are a leader in consumer health care, largest global manufacturer, distributor of performance products to the rehabilitation and sports medicine market. So. Well, we'll get Mark to describe all that later on. He's had a great career, about 16, 17 years or whatever and I think really interesting things. We're going to be a bit different this week as well. We'll have it more as a conversational tone, which I think will be really interesting. But first of all, we'll get Mark to sort of talk through some of the moves he's made. We'll deep dive in some of them because I think they're really relevant to a lot of the listeners about how they're, you know, new positions and, you know, management and everything else. So, Mark, enough from me wittering on. Let's get you talking. Tell us about your career today and how you first got started in finance and discovered the world of Treasury. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me on today. Appreciate it. Pleasure. So I started my career after college in banking. A few years spent in consumer banking that generally piqued my, my interest in cash management aspects of, of finance. Decided that I needed to move to Chicago to pursue a better career path for myself. You know, I started looking at treasury analyst roles, was lucky enough to land a position with, with Accenture here in Chicago. I say I kind of learned the fundamentals of treasury operations within a, a very large global business. So that's where I started in Treasury. It's been a 15, 15, 16 year career path from that point in time.

And Mark, just for the listeners, they may know Accenture, but can you just describe Accenture? But also you were internal Accenture rather than Accenture Consulting, going off seeing clients and things like that. So maybe just again, clarify that for them, if you would.

Sure, absolutely. So, yeah, you know, Accenture is a multinational technology and consulting professional services firm. The organization there at the, at the time I was there, the internal treasury team was based out of three regional treasury centers. When I start, when I started over time, some of that changed over time, but totally focused on, you know, managing company liquidity as opposed to, you know, customer or client facing interactions and so.

That was your first taste of Treasury. What was it like, were your managers like? And as you talk about your growth period, because you had a really good, you know, sort of some really good roles, you know, moving all the way up from sort of analyst as again people listening today, right the way through, over the course of seven or eight years to become the manager of treasury operations. Talk us through that progression and how you made that happen for yourself.

Yeah, so I started as a Treasury analyst, completely focused on liquidity management. So out of the Chicago Regional treasury center, we were managing cash for north and South American legal entities and countries, developed a really good understanding of the treasury system we were using at the time, started to broaden my experience to include some foreign exchange experience and then was given an opportunity to move up a level to a specialist level role within the liquidity management team to just take a little bit more responsibility, have some different experiences focused on our in house bank intercompany loans and bills and managing the FX impacts of those two types of transactions. And then with that experience I was able to move over to the risk management team which was primarily focused on managing our foreign exchange risk. It was able to get a lot of experience on a balance sheet hedging program, a cash flow hedging program. So really learned a lot both on the liquidity management side and the FX management side. And then, you know, as things happen and organizations change, you know, lucky enough to find myself in position to move into a manager level role and take over the management of and responsibility of managing the treasury analysts on the team that, that was managing liquidity for north and South America and a few countries in Asia Pacific. By the time that, by the time I left.

And you're managing six analysts at an early stage in your career. Maybe some of them are older than you, some similar age or younger. But you know, what was it like? You're relatively young, you're having to manage this varied team. What would you say was your driver? How did you do it? You know, how did you talk to someone who's maybe five, ten years older than you or what was the makeup of the team of things?

Yeah, so I think there were both people on the team that were younger, there were people on the team that were older, there were people that had been there quite a while, had a long tenure within the team, and then there were newer folks on the team. I think the reason I would say I was successful in the role is that as manager is because I had done the day to day, I had been the treasury analyst on that team. So I fundamentally understood everything that they were doing on a day to day basis. So it was extremely helpful that I had done the role. I could answer their questions, I could help them, I could give them ideas on how they may approach a problem because it was likely that I had seen a very similar problem to that when I was a Treasury analyst. So having that in house experience is what ultimately was able to make me successful managing a diverse team.

Mark, you then made a move from Accenture, then worked in financial services and then made a move back into corporate Treasury. What was it like making that move? And was it not something that worked? Or describe it just for the listeners? Again, they might have done the similar moves. And I know that you really love the world of corporate treasury. So over to you.

Yeah. So the intent when I decided to look for a new role was to find another place where I could take everything that I had learned at Accenture and see if I could apply it in a different business, in a different way, different industry. So I moved to financial services company and honestly found that some of the tools that I had didn't apply as well in a financial services firm. And when I went back to a more corporate treasury environment, it was kind of going back to the experience that I had previously and found that my experiences were more applicable in the new role. So I think every industry is going to be different, every business is going to be different. And finding the place where your knowledge and experience can really apply and add value to an organization is critical to your success in that next role.

And you joined Univar, Global Chemicals Group, Treasury Manager. What was that like? Talk us through that before. Then you passed some medical and stuff, but talk through Univar and then move on through those because interesting jobs.

Yeah. So Univar is a large global chemical distributor. Univar, at least my experience there was one where the business has grown a lot through acquisition. It was a fairly fragmented organization. There wasn't one central ERP system that contained all financial transactions, which actually made managing foreign exchange quite difficult. You know, I think the experience that I'd had at Accenture was a company based primarily on one ERP system, SAP. It was much easier to find financial information in one source of truth than a fragmented financial system. It was an interesting organization. I hadn't been in a. In a distribution. Distribution business. And so there was a lot more focus on international trade and the movement of products from one country to another country. And it was certainly a new experience for me coming from services, primarily services industries previously.

So Mark, you had a really great run of stuff for Accenture, really enjoying it. They made another couple of treasury moves, discovering more about yourself and everything else. But then more recently, and the role that you found is the treasurer at Performance Health, formerly Patterson Medical, perhaps describe that for us because you've got some really great treasury stuff in there. It's also interesting because it's a private equity carve out, so we'll get into that as well. So back over to you.

Yeah. So the opportunity to join Patterson Medical came to me in late 2015. It was an opportunity to join a company that was being carved out from a larger parent company, a larger public company, and being acquired by private equity. So it was a good opportunity to stand up a Treasury function that had been provided by the, by the former parent company. And so there was really nothing in place from a Treasury standpoint other than bank accounts for all of the legal entities across all the different countries that we operate in. So it was a unique opportunity to join a kind of a new company, a new growing company.

And you're in that startup situation, but within an established carve out with priority over that, sort of the interesting triangle of that. So what was your startup list again? We may have people in similar situation today that they've been carved out with a group. They're sitting there going, right, what's my checklist? What was your checklist and how did it work from there?

Organization. Right. So figuring out what bank accounts you had open in with what banks in what countries, figuring out how to pool resources here, primarily in the US to help manage our external debt facilities, putting together the Excel files that we're all familiar with, to help track daily cash, to help track daily debt levels. So that was really my hit list when I first walked in the door. And then as we kind of got moving, as you start to get into those quarterly compliance requirements, lender calls, preparation for those, making sure that you have all of the materials you need to have good calls with lenders so they understand what's going on inside the business.

As a company and things. And again, a few weeks ago we were, I was interviewing a couple of treasurers about the private equity environment and how it was like to operate that. And they were saying, actually, it's not so bad. It's not just cash, cash, cash, things like that. Cash is king in a lot of things. But looking at some of the experiences you had, some really great facility staff and everything else. But what was it like operating that environment versus maybe other environments you've seen public Environments or the Accenture. What was it like for you?

Yeah, I think we have a really great relationship with our private equity sponsor. They ask us the right questions and we're able to get them the information they need so that they have a really good level of comfort. How we're managing treasury within the organization, just being able to provide clarity to sponsors on cash flow over the next three months is very critical. We spend quite a bit of time focusing on, on that so that we can give them really good information with.

That and the sort of management of all of these things. Describe maybe again, one thing you haven't actually done is Performance Health. Tell us about the group. You know, maybe because that then impacts on your. The work you do within Treasury. So, you know, perhaps you can again, but the listeners. Am I going, hang on, who are these guys?

Sure. So when I, when I joined Patterson Medical in 2015, we quickly acquired Performance Health, which is manufacturer of health and wellness products. So it was an acquisition that effectively doubled the size of our business. We came together as one company under the name Performance Health. You know, that's the business that we operate today. It was a great opportunity to experience acquisition and rolling another business into the framework that we had set up. So rolling a new business into an existing cash pooling structure, make sure we were setting up the appropriate bank accounts to help facilitate the pooling of cash to better manage our external debt.

So, Mark, we've talked about this and you've got this role as treasurer. It's great and you've enjoyed it and got the balance of privacy. But just stepping back from that a little bit and as you as a treasurer, what would you say your favorite thing about your role or what do you enjoy most about Treasury? Why is it that that gets you up in the morning? What is it? It gives you a buzzer. The international staff or what are the things that. Oh, wow, I love my job.

Yeah, I think fundamentally I just enjoy managing cash. I enjoy coming in every day and seeing how the business is impacting our cash position. You know, I cash forecasting monthly reviews of actuals versus my forecast, developing better ways to forecast, getting better information every month to improve my forecast is what I'm looking to do. I certainly love the international aspect. I love working with teams in different countries to learn more about treasury structures in their particular countries. Just having that global view is extremely interesting to me. I think lots of different roles, you get exposure to one country or one business unit, whereas I do have that global viewpoint.

Yeah, you get to see everyone and talk to everyone in the business and things. And again that then sort of brings us, I know that people listening today are potentially already in treasury and things like that. You studied CTP a number of years ago. Why bar that international thing? What's treasury giving you? Why should someone pursue a career in Treasury? Why do you think, yeah, guys, maybe when you meet them and they say, oh, I'm doing finance or they're a grad or things, why would you say, guys, you should be in treasury, it's the place to be.

I think it's an interesting space in finance, which is, it's just unique. Every organization is different, every Treasury Department is different. One thing I found about treasury is that it has a nicely defined career path. You come in to a new treasury organization as an analyst, you build up a lot of just fundamental knowledge of systems and transactions and how to get things done on a day to day basis. And then you're able to put the building blocks on top of that. You start adding in people management. As you move up to maybe a manager level role, you start working cross functionally as you move through your career. I spend a lot of my time working with our technology teams, our customer service teams, our sales teams and our operations teams. I spend more of my day now working cross functionally than I do, you know, working just within the treasury space.

Yeah, it's a real multidimensional, you know, as you say, across the company cultures and things like that. And within, within. I know you've been less than 20 years within treasury, but have you seen how treasury and treasury has changed in that time? And I've certainly seen a number of changes with, and most recently actually maybe we'll also feed that into this current pandemic, if that's appropriate. How have you seen it change and things?

I think the pressure is always to have a smaller, leaner treasury team. And the advantage is that as treasury people we have great third party providers that help us manage what we need to manage with a very small and lean team. So you know, I know that we've leaned more on our, on our banking providers and technology providers to create the efficiencies that we need within our, within our teams to run very, very lean, very small teams, but at the same time be able to do not just the day to day right to still be able to work on projects that really do add value to the organization or provide additional information from a different viewpoint for people who are making important decisions for the company.

And so Mark, we've talked in the show and you And I caught up before and we talked about, we do a salary survey. Treasurysalary.com Anyone listening today, go there, put your details. It's a great way to benchmark your salary. But one of the key things that both Mark and I discussed is that which I found and again, I was recently interviewed on Strategic Treasurer podcast and I made the point. It's not about the money, it's not just about the money. It's about all the other factors within treasury which make it enjoyable. And Mark and I compared notes and we were saying that the salary is one thing, but it's actually the other bits. And you've got this great relationship with your, your boss, where you are now, which is fantastic. But along the way you've had this, you know that that's not come overnight. You, you've had, you made some mistakes and you've overcome them and things like that. Maybe just again, for the listeners, I want to stop talking now, tell, you know what, what have you done wrong? You know what, what mistakes have you made or what would you give to, you know, as advice with it before we wrap up the show? Shoot. What sort of, you know, what, what mistakes have you overcome, as it were over to you?

Yeah. So I think being patient for me has been a challenge throughout my career. In every position I've been in. I've always enjoyed what I was doing on a day to day basis. But just finding yourself in those positions, you can be patient and settle in for an extended period of time and always think about the other options and the different things you can do, the different responsibilities within your current role that you may be able to take on. I think another area for me has always been do not be afraid of talking to your manager if you have concerns about your current role. Any situation that is, that is going on in your day to day, talk to your manager about it. Make sure they understand where you have a roadblock so that they can help you navigate that roadblock and ultimately push you towards success. Right. That's how you're gonna be fulfilled in your daily is having those different successes along the way and being able to build those one on top of another. So that when you look back, you can say, you know, I did all these things that really stacked up nicely.

Just the fact that you've been through it as well. You know, someone's following you 10 years behind you and they're sort of more junior treasury analysts and things like that. When you're coaching them, you know, what sort of advice are you giving to those Guys, you know, is it, you know, do you see TP do this or what are the, you know, any nuggets there that you can offer?

Yeah, so I think certainly, I think education specific to your finance function is always going to be the right path. So when I was new to the treasury space, I knew that I needed to get some, some very focused specialized training and education at that time. It really broadened the treasury space for me. So it gave me some insight into, into different areas that I hadn't yet had exposure to in the first year or two of my career. I think getting and asking for exposure to the different facets of Treasury. So if you're currently in a position where you're focused on cash management, find those spaces where you can get exposure to FX management. Find a company that has external debt so that you can get exposure to managing a revolver, managing daily liquidity in a way that may not be possible if you're at an organization that doesn't have external debt. Always asking. What I always tell folks who work for me is ask your manager what they're doing that they can let you do. Right. Ultimately that frees up your manager to take on additional things from their manager and on up the chain. And everybody gains when people reach out and say what else can I do, what else can I learn?

Amazing stuff there. It's been lovely show with Mark and we've covered a number of areas and things of that, you know, as we approach the end of today's show, what would you, you know, again we'll put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes there Mark and things like that. You know, I think you, you gave a lot of advice there about, you know, getting the different experience in different areas and trying to relieve that from your manager. But you know, if you were someone again looks back and says do you know what? I want a career, I want my career like marks and more. Roll up. Mark, what advice would you give? What are the key nuggets again for you?

Yeah, I think, you know, one thing that I think is often overlooked is just being what I would call a low maintenance employee. Right. So being present, responding quickly, showing everyone who works for you and that you work for that you are, that you're present, you understand what's going on in the day to day business, branch out to other departments, start working cross functionally. You know, the minute you walk into a new role, start learning who manages the IT structure, who manages the financial systems, who manages the customer service department. If you're in that, in that type of business. And I think building capital with your manager, right? Just making sure that they know that you're going to deliver on time with what they need and what they want. Always consistent considering possibly what you know, what are they going to use this information and being able to address those questions for your manager before they even need to come back to you and ask. As a manager, you know, one of the most important things is just and I think the current situation makes this even more relevant is understanding that everyone who works for you has, has a life outside of work and may have, you know, individual challenges or individual situations that require your understanding, requires your flexibility and, you know, ultimately requires you to understand that they're going to deliver for you when you need them to and you give them the flexibility to do that.

Awesome. I think you've. Well, we pretty much summarized. Well, I'm thinking a great title for this podcast and people will get to it at the end is like building Relationship capital across the business. Because that's exactly what you just described about getting to know everyone internally and treasury, but other areas are fabulous. Amazing. Mark, great episode. Thank you very much for your time today and look forward to catching up when I'm next over in Chicago. Be great to see you. And yeah, look for. Thank you for being a guest on today's podcast, sir.

Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me today. Really enjoyed it.