Finding New Perspectives in Treasury with Tanya Kuznetsova

Foreign.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals.

About their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to.

Them about how they've built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show.

In this week's show, delighted to welcome back Tanya Kuznetsova who is the director of treasury and Cash Cycle Transformation at Baptist Healthcare. She also serves as president of the nctma, the North Carolina Treasury Management Association. But Baptist Healthcare is a not for profit healthcare organization based in Northwest Florida, committed to helping people throughout life's journey. Now I will get Tanya to bring up the story. We've known each other for many years so it's great to welcome her back to the show. We've talked and met a number of occasions and it's great to have someone who also speaks, you know, does lots of other stuff like I do. So Tanya, if you would, where, you know, as it says here, where have you been since we last spoke?

Bring me up today.

I know this, but we'll bring it up to date for the listeners as well. Over to you.

Thank you Mike and thanks for having me back. So overall I have almost 20 years in treasury management and I've been a corporate treasurer for and I worked in a variety of industries around the globe, worked in transportation, in retail and wholesale and now in healthcare. And I also worked in organizations so different sizes including non for profit. And I'm currently working in this organization, it's under $1 billion. And I also worked in very large retail corporations, over $20 billion in revenues and over like 13,000 stores. It was a retail chain. So I, I just think this gives me a lot of perspective and we'll talk about this in a moment. But I worked as a leader of blockchain and Digital trade working Group and that was mostly working cross country in Europe working under the World Trade Board Organization which is just research and discussions with different participants about digital transformation and blockchain experiences. So that was a very interesting interaction with peers. So that was, that was good. Also I joined the North Carolina Treasury Management association when I moved to the US And I really appreciate this group and it just helped, they helped me so much in terms of, you know, maintaining my professional connections and just networking more. I think that was a great experience as well.

So Tanya, you mentioned there that you get involved with the professional communities and you've done that both in the Europe and the U.S. what are your takeaways? What you know, why Are you so passionate about that? Because you spend a lot of time. I know that I've done some sessions with you and panels and so that's a heck of a commitment. Why do you feel that's an important thing?

Yes, so I just think, well, with people from multiple European countries and then moving to the U.S. it just gave me that unique perspective. I think I'm able to compare business, business practices and innovation advancements between Europe and between the US and this process and like this ability just fascinates me. In Europe I was fortunate enough to develop and maintain many professional connections and then in the US I joined the Treasury Management association and it's been really a pleasure working with, with this community and learning from them. And interestingly, in the US there are different Treasury Management Associations, different chapters. There is the national one, afp then also there are different local chapters by state. So I'm also talking a lot to the treasury association of New York, T Manny for short. And they are also a great group of people. We do webinars jointly and different.

Hang on, I'll be speaking there, Tanya in September. I'll be interviewing the lovely Modesty and Steve about hybrid working and everything else at the T Money. So we'll put a link to it in the show notes. Yeah, as you say, the team, many guys are great. So yeah, they do a lot when I've done some other virtuals with them when it was locked down and stuff. But sorry, I'm going to jump in and sorry, I did interrupt, I do apologize but this is all very well, right? You've got a full time day job, lots of people are listening and they've got full time day jobs. Why do you so passionate about it? Why bother just sitting there thinking I just can't be bothered. Oh, another TMA is, you know, associate another association meeting. You've already got enough going on. How do you. Why do you think it's so important? Well, you know, without bigging it up, it's just more that I think that the people here today were going, maybe they're on the fence about joining one, should they get involved. And I'm often saying get involved. You know, some of the, I've got different reasons, you know, getting out there, meeting great communities of treasurers all in one place very quickly, sharing knowledge, doing all that stuff. But for you, why, for you as.

An actual practitioner, experiences and perspectives matter and I think you need to talk to people to really understand different perspectives. And I was fortunate enough to have this variety, variety of, you know, opportunities to Just interact with so many people. But I also proactively create those opportunities and I think that's how you do it by being involved with different communities and attending those events, even if they are virtual and especially if they are in person. And when you network, don't just write down person's name and take their card and never follow up with them, but just have those conversations and teach yourself to listen, to genuinely be curious about someone else's business and ask them about their what they are doing, their what project they're working on. You will be amazed how, how much information you. You would get.

Are you doing that just for your career? Are you doing that just so that you can elevate yourself or why?

Well, definitely I. I'm just also passionate about education and I think that it's kind of the next stage. As I was saying, I have been reflecting on my career journey and so I found that early in my career I was all about being productive and just working. I just thought bringing value to the organization is the most important thing. And I still do think that as well. But as I moving forward in my career I'm also finding that. And I think Covid had to contribute to that as well. At some point for all of us, I think we're all trying to find more purpose in what we're doing.

When you say find a more purpose, what do you mean?

I mean not only do something as your daily job, but also understanding where the whole world is moving can also affect your job and what you do. I'm thinking about future of work a lot. It may sound like a bit of somewhere from another topic, but it's really not because the way technology is developing, the way we are interacting with this, all those artificial intelligence developments that we hear about more and more often, all of this is going to affect the work that we do. So I think understanding this technology better is going to make more work more meaningful. When you actually can. For example, things like open finance, responsible finance, all these things are now being discussed during all those conferences and innovation events. And there's a reason for this because you, not only you can do business now, but you can do responsible business now. There are companies that sell consumer goods like stocks and they would contribute a portion of their revenue from each sale to the charity. So there are things like that that happen. And then in fintech industry there are companies like Insurtech, they called like some, some new technology and insurance. And I know that they share some of their profits for to contribute to a good cause. So it doesn't necessarily have to be that. I'm just saying that the world is expanding in what we can achieve now. So not only being focused on your day to day treasury job, which I'm very passionate about, I just think that treasury touches so many areas in the business that you can contribute even more as a professional to the whole business development and with all this technology that we have now.

And Tanya, one of the things you mentioned there about, you know, this AI and things, and I'm loving ChatGPT and someone said to me the other day, they said, oh, oh, you use it. Going to use it for your social posts. Are you going to do this? I was like, no, I utilize it, I don't use it solely. And I think that's the problem when you see, I've seen quite a few posts and I'm always on LinkedIn, obviously it's part of the profession. But one of the things that annoys me is when someone just says, oh yeah, we're going to produce all these inspirational quotes. I mean, I've never been a big fan of them at the worst and best of times, but one of the things I love doing, you know, yesterday I've been going to do actually a session for one of the AFP chapters and I was then asked, they said, well, why don't you come up with a session, you decide on it. I went, no, I don't want to. They went, oh, well. I said no. I could, I said I could talk about hybrid working, I could talk about salaries, talk about the state of the market, I could talk about this. I said, but what if I get there? And they go, oh, right, yeah, thanks for the session. Is this what you wanted to hear? No, not what we wanted to hear at all. I was like, oh, okay. I said no, what I'd rather do is ask the audience and actually chat. GPT helped me because what I did was I took a number of the different sessions I've done before. Some of the other ones we've got planned for this year, I put it all into the melting pot and I said, look, come up with a series of topic areas or questions or the different areas that I could cover. You know, I've shared it with the organizer and I've said, look, can you give this to your committee and some of the, the potential audience members? What do they want to know about? Do they want to know how long their resume should be? I did a session years and years ago with the ACT in London and I thought, you know, I prepared all this stuff and These slides and we were going to do this big session. I got in there and the first question was, how long do you think my next CV or resume should be? Right, hang on, I'm talking to a group of treasurers. I prepared top level stuff about, you know, influencing in the boardroom as a treasurer and how they, and they didn't want to know that. They said, do I should I have interests on my cv. I'm like, well, yeah, but don't have this do and don't do have in. And I'm sitting there going, right, okay, great lesson way back then ask the audience. Ask what your audience wants. Not, you know, when I'm doing some of these sessions, I've got, you know, when doing T money, it's about hybrid working and I've got modesty who works remotely and you know, manages globally and things like that. Steve, he's got a blended team within New York and things like that. I'm getting them on stage to talk about how they do it, give some practical tips to the audience and also give some of the knowledge that I've gained from talking to a thousand other treasury folks because that's what people want to know. They want, oh, can you help us be a route to this? And again, you're talking about adding value and stuff, so I think that's invaluable myself. You've definitely done it like that, haven't you? As well.

So yes, yes, I couldn't agree more with you. And that's pretty much what I mean when I say understand perspective. People view things differently and some people are more digital native and want to know more and more and more about those newer developments. And as you said, you could talk about all sorts of, you know, new trends in the market and stuff, but it is also important to sometimes go back to the basics and on that topic, by the way, because I had this shift in, well, actually two, I had shifts in my career twice, so to speak. I think first, big shift was when I actually came to work in the US and then second when I change industries from retail and wholesale industry where I've been for quite a number of years over, over 10 years. And then two years ago I changed industry to healthcare, which is a completely different environment and so interesting to learn new things about that also gave me this confidence that treasury is an industry agnostic profession. So I think, I think that's really great. But back to what I was saying. So some things that I thought were important, did they actually turn out to be that important? As I thought they were not all of them. One thing did for sure that a good understanding of business is essential. And that's, that's true in every environment, every profession, every company, every industry. So for a true professional, you need to understand what the business is, is exactly doing and how to help it. But then also I think what I didn't pay much attention to was that I didn't really think that understanding why people do what they was that important in the professional environment. I tended to split kind of personal and professional, which I mean is true to some degree, but understanding more why they want to know what they want to know. To your previous point, that's the thing that's important. And last thing I'll say about going back to the basics, what I thought is going to be the most boring part of my work when I moved to, you know, new, new industry, new company, new country, it actually taught me a good lesson. So I, what I was considering was like the worst and the most boring work in, in my daily. Actually it taught me that going back to the basics is important. When you are in the new environment, something changed in your life. Something like maybe it's a big thing that changed in your life. It's, it's actually even being high level professional, sometimes it's good to go back and like make a payment, you know, stuff like that. Using an example from treasury, just doing some, some very simple basic things. Teach you a lot about how everything works, how interact with each other, how systems interact with each other. So it can be an important experience as well. So I'm not surprised that people keep asking you about what do I need to have on my cv. These things also change and it's important to keep up with them.

And so Tanya, that led you to sort of draw these topics together to create a book, maybe touch on that. I think it's fascinating actually. There's not many treasurers I know that have gone down that route. Tell us about that a little bit because I think it's, you know, when you originally shared, it was like, wow, okay. And you know, sometimes they write books about foreign exchange, risk management or latest cash management payments. You draw that about talent gaps and about some of your experiences. What was that like?

Yes, thank you, you're very kind. Yes. So this book is more about professional development than anything else. It's about how you advance in your career and how to enjoy what you do. So these are the main essentials. I think I did it because I was at a certain point in time where I thought, okay, your team is what makes you successful. You can have all sorts of skills, hard skills, soft skills, you can be a brilliant professional, but you can only do so much without your team. So this. The importance of having great team was this driver. So I wanted to share my knowledge with my team. Well, I did share my knowledge with my team, but I wanted to share it with even broader group of people. And that was an attempt to do that, basically enjoying what you do, understanding how to bring more value, looking forward to Sunday evenings, you know, instead of dreading them. That's how I like to put it. Because the most heartbreaking thing for me is to hear someone say, oh, it's this time again, Sunday night work tomorrow on Monday morning. And that's terrible. You have to look forward to everything. Well, as much as possible, Tanya, I.

Was going to say, let's take that. I'll steal that one from you, if I may. If there is anyone listening and you do get there, and you may be listening to this on the weekend, you know, if you. That takes your fancy and you're thinking, oh, Sunday night, I dread going back to that place of work. As long as you still like treasury, just call us, email us, send us your resume. We don't normally do that on the podcast, but that's what I'm saying is saying the fact that you're enjoying it every Sunday night and knowing you get, that's great. But if there are people out there going, actually, this. That's giving me food for thought, you know, I do expect a bit of an influx of CVs and resumes, actually, because few people tell me that many years ago, I've got to say, I. I was sitting there, I was actually on a holiday, wife and kids. Before I started the treasury recruitment company, it was literally the summer before I did, and I was sitting there on the pool steps. My daughter, very young at the time, she was splashing around and I just, I'm enjoying this, but I'm thinking, God, and for the first time ever, I thought, I don't want to go back to work, I don't want to go back to that place to work. People can find it on my LinkedIn profile and I'll tell them exactly who it was. I was just like, no, I'm off. And that was it. I thought, you know what? I can't work in a place where I don't enjoy it. So while I'll make it my own place. So that's exactly what I've done. So. Totally agree. And we've had your previous podcast we brought it up to date a little bit with now, but with yourself, you know, other other things that are happening out there in the world. What are you in treasury terms, what are you thinking that treasurers need to be thinking about and stuff?

Yeah, yeah, no thanks, Mike. That is a great example that he made as well. Just going back to the book for a little brief moment. It was written back in 2017 but interestingly again, why I think I started thinking about it again now is that I think there's a lot of relevance in that approach of how you need to understand what value added tasks you perform and how your work makes a difference and how you actually feel about it. It's really important. As I reflect on it, I just wonder what's next? Well, first of all, I think all these things are very relevant now, even to some again back to after Covid times, maybe to some people they're even more relevant than before. I'm also thinking what's what's next? And in my opinion, and we touched on this briefly, finding your purpose is the next step in your career journey. And so in my next book, if I to write one, I'm not planning to write now, but I would examine technology from the perspective of the future of work and how this can affect you. And just having found your passion is one thing, but moving forward to your purpose is another thing I would recommend to take a moment and I'm kind of recommending this to myself as well. Taking a moment and thinking about why you do what you do and how you can help with what you do even more to improve how your work can improve the overall performance of the organization and how you actually kind of find this meaning in what you do in your daily job. I think that what brings you joy, that's, that's why I enjoy working in Treasury. But as I said, not only that I also enjoy the educational component. I also write courses so I write courses on fintech on different technology, including blockchain. I'm also because I as you mentioned, I do have quite an of a lot of experience with webinars and virtual events, educating peers, meeting with peers. I find so much value in this. I gain so much knowledge from different people. I'm also thinking about maybe doing some serious of my own like also interviewing people from the standpoint of just, you know, business practices and technology. That's still the passion of mine. Trying to find more insight in these.

Discussions and you're talking there about improvements. It's one of the ways I've sometimes I've done this recently. I did it a couple of times, but people talk to me a little bit, you know, what advice do I have for treasury professionals? Do it. You've got some crazy busy a lot of the time. And everything else I've talked about the Friday, Friday morning personal coffee moment. Like, what's that? And I actually did it at one of the conferences where I bought everyone. I said, if you look under your chairs and there was a business card underneath their chairs and it was Sellotapes. Oh. I said, but it's not just a business card, it's actually a 10 gift token in a Starbucks. And to go and have a coffee on me, because I wrapped up then with Sir Dave Brailsford and he was the head of British cycling and they had no track record of success. And I talk about it, that he then talked about doing these 1% gains and, or marginal gains, as they called it. And what he was doing was little things in the wind tunnel, other things, but there were other crazy things, you know, so that they took their own mattresses to things, they took their own pillows, you know, sleeping, the same posture, everything to give them little 1% advantages. And the cumulative effect then, you know, was just incredible. Now, again, so I said, well, I'm a treasurer, I'm not a cyclist. I said, no, but if you were to just do one thing different, if you were to sit there on a Friday morning, you have here, you do your first bits, go out, clear my inbox, maybe just put in there personal coffee and you just sit there and you go on here and you add one thing to your LinkedIn profile and then you do it next week, and then you do the next week over the course of a year. And it doesn't have to be just LinkedIn, it could be looking at resume for just 5, 10 minutes, but if you actually think about it, with the cumulative effect of that, doing it 40, 45 times, maybe 50 times over the course, it's just incredible. And that's why I just love talking about that with Dave Brailsford and stuff like that, because I think just doing that stuff all taken together, massive competitive advantage. And treasury is competitive industry. So, you know, that's one of the things for you guys. Any other bits before we sort of put your LinkedIn details or wrap up the show? Anything else that I've not covered that you think you'd like to give to the audience today, Tanya?

Well, I think it was a great discussion and to your point, Mike, I agree with you on the, on the last one motivation is not even as effective as consistency in achieving results. So that would be like my number one advice that I give to myself and I recommend for others. Just as you just did, being consistent in something, it just works wonders. And then just never underestimate the importance of preparation again, that's what separates brilliant work from average work. And then just when you network again, just be genuinely interested and listen to what people have to say. That includes podcasts that include all the events that are available out there virtually and in person can be a lot. But we always have to keep in mind one thing on professional development. When you are not moving forward, you are moving backward. This freeze in time, no stagnation, only going backwards. So we need to keep moving forward.

Well, let's use a visual example. I've done that because I've actually done that on a screen before when again using it in my take is a good one. Santania from my speeches. But I've always likened it, you know when you go to an airport and you have one of the travelators and it gets you to the destination a lot quicker. I said, but actually imagine yourself standing in the middle of one of those. But you're facing the wrong way. Yeah, I said if you're standing there, you're slowly, you're not going anywhere. But it's not that actually, you're actually slowly going backwards because everyone else, they're walking forwards and yeah, the world is pushing them back but they are overtaking you and they are going to continue to move forward. Whereas with yourself, if you just stand still, you are just slowly this technology creep, there's all the other things happening is slowly pushing you back, whether it's visible or not. That's one of the key things I noticed with that. Okay, we're going to wrap up today's show because we keep it to the sort of half hour, 40 minutes. We'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. I know it's going to build up in there, but with yourself thinking about it, what, what final takeaways are you going to give the audience today?

Tanya, this importance of continuing your professional and personal growth is critically important and I really love this discussion today. Mike, I think we covered a lot of ground and I think you cannot underestimate the importance of being in professional environment and interacting with people and just learning a lot. Also kind of piece of advice for, for teams, I just wanted to mention that sometimes you need to create those learning environments in your workplace as well and leaders should be mindful of this. So sometimes it's not as easy to do as I make it sound, but it's also the importance of education and continuing growth is critically important. So just wanted to leave everyone with that thought.

Just I'm going to leave them on that. Amazing to chat to yourself. I'm going to see you at some of the conferences. And again, that's a great way. Go to conferences, get involved with your local association, wherever they might be in the uk, in Europe, in the us, just get involved. And by just doing that, that can satisfy that and that moving forward. So, Daniel, thank you very much for your contribution today. Great to catch up and look forward to seeing you soon. And thanks very much for your efforts today. Amazing.

Thanks. Thanks so much, Mike.

Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending on where you listen, whether that's itunes, Spotify or another great place to listen.

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