Finding Your Value Proposition with Oliver Gerstberger

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they built their careers, where they are now and where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. This week's show delights to be joined by Oliver Gersberger, the head of Group treasury at Selector. He also oversees tax and insurance and funding at Selector. We'll get Oliver to describe a bit more about his current role as we move on through the show. But the actual firm company itself headquartered In Switzerland since 1957, selector are a European market leader in self service, coffee, convenience, food solutions for both the workplace and public spaces. They focus on coffee to go. Basically your perfect coffee experience your workplace and on the move. With over 9,000 employees, quarter of a million customers, over 16 countries, select 10 million consumers a day, have some of the coffee and go through their points of sale. So yeah, pretty big organization. But also Oliver can explain about them. They're privately held so we can talk about the difference maybe between privately public and. We'll get into that. But enough of that stuff as we say, let's get back to the beginning with Oliver, maybe Oliver, we could start with your early entry into treasury or finance as it were, because you started again over in banking and then made the move into treasury. But if you perhaps talk from maybe your degree day sort of thing, if you would, and how you first got your interest in finance and then later Treasury.

Good morning, Mike. Good morning.

Morning sir.

Yes, so how did I get into Treasury? Well, I studied business administration in Germany, went abroad, did a few internships in investment banking, but as well in capital markets. And well at that point I decided okay, after university I would like to go to the capital markets. So I did a traineeship at UBS bank and Switzerland in the foreign exchange area in the financial crisis. I then moved to the pricing team of the trading division. After one and a half years I moved back to sales trading because I wanted to really be in contact with the clients with markets. But still after a few years I felt that I'm not as close to the business as I wanted to be when I studied at university. So I thought okay, what can I do next? And I decided okay, I know how corporate work from the sales trading area, so why not working at the corporate treasury itself? So I looked for a real job in the real economy, did my treasury qualification and started my first treasury job at an automotive supplier.

And with that move from banking to treasury and that transition, how was it viewed sort of thing when you were thinking about making that move across. Because some of the, again, some of the listeners, they'll be working in a bank, maybe listening and thinking, how do you actually yourself up for success? How do you start to apply for things? Because if they send out their CV or resume to people, they go, hang on, you're a banking dude, why would we take you into corporate treasury? How did you sort of phrase yourself when you were looking at roles like that?

Well, I think not only this move, but generally I look for the red line in my cv. Where can I add value? So I was applying for a job at a company who had some significant foreign exchange exposure and wanted to get it more into the controlled area. And I knew foreign exchange in and out. I did my treasury qualifications. So I knew certain things about Treasury. So the red line was foreign exchange. And then I moved into the corporate treasury world using this asset I had.

Yeah. As a springboard sort of thing. And you said you made that move across. You joined, how do you say, Rehal Group, is that right?

Yes, that's right.

So describe your role there.

Reha Group is a family owned business. When you say family owned, you think about a small company, but it's actually bigger than 3 billion with a couple of thousands of employees. They do more or less everything which is made out of plastics. One third of their turnover at that time was automotive supplier and the rest were furniture and other. So they had to build up a Treasury department. They had some foreign exchange exposure. Everything was pretty decentralized. So jointly with my boss we set up the department. I stayed there a few years and then I moved on to the next challenge at my current employer.

Just dig into that role if you like. That was the first corporate treasury role. What was the contrast like and you know, what was the ethos in treasury there like versus how it had been in banking? What was the sort of the transition for you like over that sort of two year period? When you're in that role, how did you feel about it sort of thing. What was the, you know, how different was it?

I think what really strikes out that in treasury you're more the generalist. In banking you have a specialist for lending, one for foreign exchange, one for hedging, one for this and one for that. When you are in corporate treasury you have to deal with a lot of matters, which makes it interesting. Of course when you are at bigger organizations like virtual and SMI listed companies, you have more specialists within the Treasury Department. But as it was a department in the Process of being set up to grow, which didn't exist a few years before. I was dealing with many aspects from initially starting foreign exchange, but later also to introduce systems to create visibility about cash flows and hedge exposure. We started with one specific area, which was my area of expertise, foreign exchange, but then it became pretty broad and in the end I was managing their project team and you have to deal with all the aspects which come along in the day to day world because you are the expert in finance and you help the business. And this is very different to banking, where I was a specialist focusing on one area of expertise, speaking to specialized people at the big corporate as well.

And then with that role, you sort of brought in various different specialists to help you become successful in that. So SAP specialists and different people, you're relatively young in that role. She likes. How did you manage or sort of coach those around you when in some ways you're a lot younger than them? Who's this guy who knows all this stuff and knows his treasury stuff? What was that sort of like for you?

So initially I had to convince with my knowledge, with my treasury expertise, not to talk from the top, but one equal within the team. And what really convinced them and what made me successful in this role was that I could easily understand the blocking points in the processes, try to map out new ideas, but in the end also to agree with them and make their life better, easier and also bring value for the company because we had to introduce new systems which initially were complicated payment systems, but then in the medium term really simplified their life. So showing the added value of what we do, showing the value for the company and showing how they can contribute as part of the bigger team made me successful of leading teams with people who were significantly more experienced than I have been in terms of years of professional experience.

And then you made. You talked there earlier on in the show that you were there for a few years and then made the move to Selector. You came in again relatively early. We spoke recently to Marcus kd, who in very early stage had become a treasurer at 26. You're still quite an early stage in your career. Even now you're still early. But how did you make the transition across to the sort of head of treasury role?

Again, Selector at that point in 2015 was a smaller company than it was today and well, I knew how to set up a Treasury Department, I knew how to introduce some of the systems and create visibility and that is what Selecta needed at that point in time. So I came there and private equity environment, Selecta's private equity held today is pretty different to the family owned business. I had to adjust again to a very fast paced environment, introduce new procedures, new systems and while I was there, Selector went on an acquisition path. So we doubled turnover by buying our competitors and jointly with my deputy I built up the Treasury Department, introduced systems and procedures. It's quite still a very interesting time with all the ambitions of our investor.

What's it like working for ubs obviously massive bank and publicly sort of quoted and things like that. How's the sort of, the difference of what are the drivers like you find working for a privately held firm? You've got different pressures. I've heard when I talk to different clients who have made their transition private to public and back again, you know, sometimes they've said, you know, it's all about the cash and having visibility but there's cash visibility in public, but there are different drivers, different dials. How does it work with you guys and or how do you find it.

Certainly within Treasury there Private investors buy companies like Selector because they want to change the business, they want to make it more valuable, we want to introduce changes. So what is really different to other roles is the fast paced environment. When there's an idea of introducing a system, the question is okay, how fast can you do it? Normally when you say half a year here the ambition is always shorter. While you're still implementing this one system, they decided that you can still handle the integration and acquisition of something else. You mentioned before that I also do the tech side. So I was while introducing systems doing an integration of Pelican Rouge, the company we bought. And while we're doing that we started to be more involved in the corporate finance area doing new funding, doing use due off balance sheet schemes. So it's all more fast paced. You act, you are paid because you react fast and you do significantly more right decisions than wrong decisions. But as long as you deliver quickly the value, an 80% solution, you are very much appreciated here in this environment.

The contrast in a way when I've talked to people about treasury with today's money and looking at the future and planning and everything else and tax, moving money left and right, sort of making sure that you minimize your tax bill if you like and everything else and consider international tax and everything else. How do you find the contrast between the two when you're sort of overseeing, having an input to both strategies as it were?

I find it pretty interesting and I strongly recommend everybody who can get exposure to both areas to take this opportunity. Was it different in treasury, you build structures, you move the money left and right in tax, you develop new billing schemes or transfer pricing schemes, or you look how you can really efficiently price your loans from a tax perspective as well from a Treasury perspective. And bringing both together for me really is a value add because sometimes when it's split apart, the treasury professionals might not understand the tax aspects and the tax professionals just lack the understanding of how to set up the loan structures and all that stuff in the treasury world. So being the well, combination of both really helps to make a very bulletproof and efficient structure which works from a tax perspective, but also works from a Treasury perspective. Because tax professionals can be super complicated, disconnected from real life, how you really price something. And tax professionals sometimes have no idea how to make sure that tax authority in one country really agrees to the pricing scheme which you have applied in the other country.

So how do you act as a translator, Mike?

I think it's a good question, how do I act as a translator when there's a tax challenge? For example, how do we efficiently price our cash pools using the different credit ratings? I first think about how we can build it into the systems. So instead of coming from the perfect solution, which might work in every case across the world, I think how on earth can I really bring it into our systems? How even on Excel can I reconfirm the value? So it shouldn't be too complicated, it should be easy to use and easy to maintain. Using this approach, we can really make the life of the tax and the treasury professionals more convenient.

And then with the structure of treasury with you guys, maybe you can explain for the audience listening today, how are you guys structured treasury terms and what are your key focus day in, day out? So I think how's treasury structure for yourselves?

Well, on the treasury side, I have split the team in two parts. One is dealing with the treasury operations and the systems. So everything moving the cash left and right, making sure that the funding is on the right bank account on the right day. On the other hand, I have set up a team which is focused on increasing the funding for the company, the self funding, but also the external funding. They work next to each other, they cover each other during holidays and also during certain activities like our weekly cash calls. But making someone responsible for one or the other really helps to create the focus. And with a very lean team of effectively 4, 2 and 2, make sure that we can deliver the maximum value with a very lean structure. Because you mentioned before, we are in 16 countries, we have more than 20 legal entities, 1.5 billion turnover and we really want to minimize our debt, maximize the cash usage and increase the self funding and we are really integrated into the business. We have receivables financing funding, we look at supply chain funding and we make sure that we also get the external off balance sheet schemes in place in all the countries where we need it and we align the business to make our business cases eligible for those schemes. Having a small team doing it front to back. So starting from how do we close the deals, how do we structure the deals to in the end how do we get the cash on the right bank account? I think it's an efficient structure in.

This environment and with those local businesses and with those business partners, how do you relate to them? You know, how is your, you know, I sometimes talk to some of my clients and they, you know, we talk about the carrot and the stick approach, you know, saying look, we're big treasury, you should do what we say and everything else. But how do you convince them to, you know, act as or you part act as a partner to them? How do you convince them that working with central treasury is in their best interest? What's the sort of ethos you take around that?

If you know, I think I take those approaches so frequently. I'm the advisor, the consultant to find the best solution, the best funding mix for their business, to grow the business, to grow the business in the right way, getting the funding when they need it. But also sometimes, I mean we are one group and you have to follow the group direction. So yes, a local bank might be more privileged from your point of view as local finance director than the group chosen bank. But in the end it's one team, it's one group. So sometimes it's also the stick you have to follow here and we make sure that the solutions which we put in place are efficient for you equally or similarly to the solutions which you had before when you were standalone, not integrated into this group or not integrated into the cash management. And now after four years we are well respected, we are consulted and asked, okay, how can we efficiently structure this from early onward so that it's then easier to, to find the best solution for their needs, but also for the group needs. But it takes time, it's nothing which comes overnight. I claim that you always need 12 to 18 months to be a respected business partner and you have to continuously deliver on your promise. So we are a service oriented team. We want to deliver value to the entities but also value to the group. We are not a profit center but we make sure that the group get its best out of the resources it has.

And with treasury itself, you've seen evolution over your time, relatively still early in your career. As we spoke before the program, you haven't been doing it 30 years, but you've seen come into it in modern treasury times, if that's the right phrase. But what do you see as the biggest challenges for treasury at the moment? What do you see as the things that are evolving? New challenges. I've talked on previous shows that Sometimes it seems CFOs push their treasurer out, out in front of them not, but as a filter for lots of the technology that's coming on, lots of the blockchain, lots of the different ideas and new technologies or new thinking with you guys. And with your view around treasury, what are you seeing as the new stuff that's coming out that you've got to deal with?

Well, I think there's a lot of things going on right now in the world with artificial intelligence, with blockchain. And I agree with what you said. Treasury is a filter. Treasury is a business partner and knows well what the business needs, but also they can easily relate to the new startups or companies who offer new solutions like predictive analytics, all that stuff. So we are first to filter, but then we are also the one to help to implement it. And there I see, well, a split also in the treasury function. So you have the more generalist, who is the business partner, very much oriented. Where can we become more efficient, where we can do something better than we have done before modern digital finance. But then you also have the specialists who help you to maintain those systems, to connect those new modules to your existing ERPs, existing solutions. And both must talk to each other. For me, it's quite important that we as a team can play in both areas. We know the general role, but we also have the people who really like to be the system geek, let's call it this way, the system specialist, to then tweak the system so that it really adds a value, which we identified in the business case.

It's really interesting, you know, because, you know, when I first started in treasury recruitment, many, many years ago, I saw treasury and certainly at the time I think there was an ivory tower mentality, certainly. And because a lot of treasurers could see that they could elevate their salaries by being, look at me, I'm the Treasury specialist. And when I talk to people and they say, oh no, I, well, I don't know our treasurer, yeah, he sits over there and looks after the money and does all this great stuff and then they get an elevated salary. But actually, over the time, I've seen. I've seen it now come full circle. And as you just talk about there, I think you encapsulated quite well where you're sort of communicating definitely with the business. I think, in a way, Treasury's got, in its own way, the treasury, by being separate a lot of the time, being this amazing specialist area, sort of moved away from the business, but now it seems it's really integrating much more with the business, where you're actually seen as helping. And certainly, you know, again, we spoke before the show, both of us, that we sort of said that that's very much your ethos around it and a lot of the help that you give to your other finance teams, that's a big part of your role, isn't it? And you've sort of maybe give us an example of where, again, if someone is a Treasury manager, they're listening today and they're thinking, that's what I need to be doing. What would you sort of give them as a tip? What should they be trying to do to help the other parts of the business? What's. What's worked and been successful for you, would you say?

And what really helps is you sit next to those people you want to relate with, you ask them for coffee, you ask them what they do, you maybe spend a day with them and see what their challenges are, and then you think how you can help them with your area of expertise to do a better job, to do something more efficiently than they have done before. And it's reaching out to people, it's being close to them, it's not sending the email, it's picking up the phone if you want to discuss something, or just going over if it's the next building you go over, or you go to their offices, you visit them, and you really try to be humble and understand what bothers them and what needs to be changed.

Good answer. So, as we approach the end of today's show, Oliver's again kind of giving me the permission. So we'll put in his LinkedIn profile link so people can connect to you. If it's worth having some of those people in your Treasury LinkedIn network, as it were, but as you reflect over your career, as it's progressed so far, and it's done very well, thank you very much. But you're looking back and thinking, right, setting yourself up for the future and things like that, and other people listening and thinking the same with yourself, what Would you say, you know, what are the tips that you would give to somebody else listening today? They're thinking, right, Actually, I like Oliver's background. That's what I'd like to do. What would you tell those guys listening from today's show?

So my advice to people here would be, first ask yourself, what do you really like? What is fun for you? So that a Monday morning is a good day and not just another Monday. So you must like your job. But then you also should ask yourself, okay, where do I add value? I mean, the world changes. We have more automation, we have new systems. So what do you want to be? Do you want to be the guy who is the business partner, the fronting partner who gets throw new challenges every week, every month to find a better solution, to grow the business, to fund the business? Or do you want to be the specialist? Do you want to work on specific areas, what is really interesting for you? But then think about your future employees or your clients. They will hire you as a team member or as a team lead if you add value, and you add significantly more value than what you cost. And if you know what is your value proposition, you cost one, you will bring three or four, then you can make your case, you can make your business case why they should hire you. And you are confident and you will like your job because you've thought about it, you know where you're good at and you know what you really don't want to do. And I think that's quite important for you as a human being, because in the end, for me, it's more than 30 years to my potential retirement, so I must have fun along the way. And I honestly enjoy every day at work. I don't think that it's another Monday. I think, yes, it's Monday, a great opportunity. And sometimes I say, oh, it's Thursday or Friday already. I mean, I have done quite a few things, but there's even more things ahead. So I like my weekends a lot with my family, but I also like my work.

Yeah. And enjoy it as well. So great final words there from Oliver. As we say, have fun at work so that the time flies by in a very positive fashion. But at the same time, take a step back maybe and work out what your value proposition is, you know, because then that's going to make you much more valuable, you know, to your employers and secure yourself so well. Great words. Thank you very much, Oliver, for today's show. Nice, easy chat with Oliver today. We get on very well. Wish him all the best with his role at Selector as it develops and changes. And as I say, we'll put his link from LinkedIn in the show. Notes if you want to connect to Oliver. Hope you've enjoyed today's show and just remains. Thank you very much, sir, for your time.

Thank you, Mike.