From Healthcare to Treasury with Benjamin Seal

FOREIGN.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to them about how they built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show. In this week's show, delighted to be joined by Benjamin Seal, the vice President, Treasury Services at Cenvio Worldwide Limited. Now, for those of you that don't know, I wasn't quite sure myself, but actually then discovering from Ben a lot more about them as a company, they are the leading North American provider of envelope products that covers all of the end markets. So you've got everything from pharmaceuticals, logistics, healthcare, government, the lot. And the key thing is here, Sembia actually produced one out of every four envelopes in or envelopes, I don't know, it's however you pronounce it in the US and is headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, operates 17 facilities across North America. Now, the good thing is when we go through Ben's career, he's got an interesting start in Treasury. It's not your typical start, if you like, and I'll let him tell that. But as always, and thank you to Ben, he's a regular listener. So for all of you guys out there listening today, if you want to be on the show, I want to have you. And all you've got to do is be as good as Ben. And if you're that good, well, you can come on the show. And so, Ben, take us back to the beginning of your career and how you first got started, well within Finance and then treasury, but actually before that, you had quite a different background compared to many of the other guests on the show. So over to you, sir, and talk us through from there.

First of all, I'd like to thank you for that wonderful introduction. I've been a listener for about a year and a half now and really have looked at it as kind of a mentorship so I can structure my treasury career because I feel like I'm still fairly young in the career. As you pointed out, my beginnings definitely more unique than most people. I kind of really had two careers, really in a way. Before I graduated high school here in the States, I was an emergency medical technician. So I was working on the ambulance services in the county before I even graduated high school. That came from this desire to really help out the community, help out people. I always saw it as a challenge with a medical career, but I always had this love for, you know, financing and business as well. And while I was an emt, kind of helped pay for my studies. That transitioned over into accounting from being an emergency medical technician. I transferred over to hotel. Accounting for a company was a Caesars. So it was really the casino gambling. But I would do the cash reconciliation for the hotel and casino and really that helped me fine tune my 10 key and Ben.

And Ben with that I was going to say how did you, you made that transition and it's, it's really different as you say emt, you know, so dealing with high pressure situations and everything else and then you've got accounting. Was that an easy transition? You think, okay, I'm not sort of emergency to get into those stuff. But then it's a more routine job. I mean that in a positive sense that actually you're doing finance, you've got your cycles, you've got everything else. It's rather than, you know, you don't know what you're going to do when you get out of the ambulance, as it were, you know, you know, how was it, how did, what was that like for you?

Yeah, it really was a interesting transition for sure. It goes back to when I was in high school. You know, I took an accounting class that I really enjoyed. So I already had the fundamentals in place. You know, when I was emt I was actually still studying to be an accountant as well. So it was kind of a really a smooth transition. A little bit different I guess day to day operations with an EMT you're on called basically in the office 24 hours, you can say, but have to be ready to jump to emergency and being very adaptable, you know, both accounting, you're really doing that 9 to 5 position. So that was a little bit of a change of, change of place. But you know, change of place and a change of face or things is sometimes very, very nice. Especially for EMT. I was making $6.83 an hour. So I wanted to really transition to, you know, something that I could raise a family or just to, you know, really enjoy life with versus working all this overtime in order to live life.

And so then you were accounting with Net Shape Technologies because I wonder then that will transition you into some of the more recent experiences in your role and how having that accounting foundation sort of talk us through Net Shape, who were they and what was that like in accounting was because you were there for a number of years, I think seven odd years. So what was that like? And then pick out as we go through maybe if any of those tips for the future that you're Thinking and again, someone listening today might be thinking, all right, I'm doing accounting. I'd like to get into Treasury. Talk us through that.

Yeah. So when I transferred from Caesars to it was actually a hawk corporation at the time and then later was bought out by a private equity company and became Netship Technologies. But I started really in the AR department, really focused on just collections and which later transitioned to fixed assets and dealing with various components even in contract accounting and within the company. But really in that role I learned this adaptability within the company and trying to be an asset versus, you know, kind of looking as a liability and redeveloping yourself constantly. With manufacturing, it's always usually a lean company. So anytime that a person can see a project and take it on, that's, you know, really helps out the improvement of the business. And with that transformed our consignment inventory where before we were always managed it on Excel. And I identified within our ERP that, you know, we actually already had paid for was a consignment module. So I identified it, tested it and implemented it and managed that transition from start to finish, which really, you know, helped out the company for visibility in the consignment inventory, but also really changed.

So, Ben, I'm going to jump in there as well and I wanted to say. So you did, you know, we, we have a cycle, you know, I say to some people in the past, you know, you're in a role for say three years. So the first year you're learning it, you know, year to do the role, years to learn the role, year to do the role, a year to get bored of the role. And then maybe you want to. But you did this for a number of years, but each time and again we had this call before and you were talking about, just as you talked about that improvements, you know, if someone is in treasury accounting or in treasury itself, you know, in other roles and you're going through these cycles. We said before it wasn't just about just sitting there doing your job. And there you go, there are the numbers section you were looking to improve. How do you keep that mindset sort of thing or what were you doing before?

Yeah, I mean, you make a good point. You are right. You know, the first year you're learning it, then later on you get bored of it. For me, it's just you constantly try to reshape and redevelop it so you don't become bored. You know, the processes more than anybody and how best to improve those so, you know, management doesn't know that this is your day to day operation. So if you can improve that and make it more efficient and be more creative, then you can make it more interesting and take on additional responsibilities within the company. And really that's where you become that asset of the corporation where people turn to you and say, hey, can you take a look at this? And how would you recommend process improvement and so forth. But that allows you to, to really kind of reshape the company but also to help out the intercompany relationships that you have and really grow your network within that company.

So and how did you, and how did you grow that network? Did you actually go out and or you know, pick up the phone or did you go meet them or did you just sort of. They just got to know Ben in accounting.

Yeah. And end up with the various roles that I did. So one of the things that I also identified was a process improvement with our invoicing where the shipping department was actually creating the invoice at time of confirmation of the shipment and, and attach the invoice with the shipping documents which actually improved the dso. But with that I actually went from each of our divisions or manufacturing sites to implement that. So that really helped me build that networking.

Then you went back into healthcare. And again this is one of the things I said at the beginning of the show that was really impressive. Talk us through that and then we'll bring you back into. So you did back to healthcare and then back into finance. So talk us through.

Yeah, you pointed out where it was like the first year you learn and then later on you go bored. So I'm constantly individual that I need to be doing something, improving and I always had this desire to kind of get back into health care just from this perspective of really helping out people as well. So I ended up taking an opportunity where I went back to school as a respiratory therapist but while still working at Netshape as a contract accountant and doing various logistics items as well and side projects that they asked me to take on. But yeah, I just, I just really like the concept of medical and as I always saw it as a challenge so I wanted to get back into it. And the opportunity for respiratory therapist program had. Had really intrigued me. So I went into that did wonderful things. I was worked for Children's Hospital here in Louisville, Kentucky in the picu, which is a pediatric intensive care unit. So I've seen a lot of things and work with some wonderful people over there. But there was always desire to kind of get back into, you know, accounting as well, because that was kicking and.

Screaming, you're dragged back into finance and things. So, yeah, you sort of did that for a period and then you came back and joined, as you said, Semvio. They've been through some developing and you've seen that with the company. Talk us through the steps because again, number of the guests we talk. You talked about that. He said, oh, you hear these great treasures. Yeah, but they, some of them have just jumped straight in, you know, qualified as accountant, straight into Treasury. Boom. You got to know a real foundation of the company as well. So maybe talk us through from, you know, business analyst through to head of Treasury. So talk us through for this time.

That I was still with a respiratory therapist and working for Netshape, still continue. And you know, that company really transformed. A lot of the people had left at different companies, but there was one individual I had worked with in the AR and also the credit team over at Netshape Technologies that had moved over to Synveo Worldwide or Synvo at the time and had always been asking me to come back over and help them out. So, so that's what I did. I ended up, he offered me a position as a business analyst and, and I really, it really intrigued me because it allowed me to be creative. I was really focused on improving the reporting processes for ar, AP and really for that shared services part of the company. And, and from. From there I ended up being promoted to credit manager, up to the director of shared services and really focused on that process improvements within that organization. My current boss had offered me a position to transfer over to the treasury as director. So I spent so far, it's been 10 years overall with Synvo, five years was in the shared services department which really helped me fine tune, you know, financial analysis, really building the relationships also within the company.

Now talking to Ben, I'm going to jump in there again. We jump straight in healthcare into Synveo. I talked about it at the top of the show. Tell us about Synvio because I think that very much impacts on your role as vp Treasury Services. You know, talk us through envelopes. Envelopes. How do you say? I don't know? You tell me.

Envelopes? Yeah. We are the largest manufacturer of envelopes here in North America, producing one in four envelopes in the United States. But it's a very interesting business because everybody thinks of envelopes as a dead business. But really we've seen a really change in the environment because fraudsters have got. Over the past several years, fraudsters have developed their technology and, and really in Businesses have countered that by, with training and, you know, just education where people are afraid to click a link. I know here within Surveyo we have this training constantly, but we also have the testing. So if you fail that testing by clicking a link that you're not supposed to, you have this remediation process that you have to go through and it's like an hour process and so kind of painful. So I know for us, I don't click any links now. So really we've seen a shift in the environment where there's more people going to mail to reach the, you know, the possible clients and customers.

And what's it like in terms of, you know. Because we come to ESG in a bit as well, because obviously that's a part of the role and everything else, but natural resources, commodities, you know, so exactly as you say with the, you know, the company about paper and it's about all those different things. Do you, as a treasurer, do you get involved in that or is that sort of out in the business or how does it work sort of thing?

Yeah. So for sunveo, we are, especially for our treasury team, we're extremely lean. So between me and my boss, who's the SVP of finance, we're into those intricacies of the days. We're working directly with our purchasing department on terms and working with those vendors to secure paper. They, as our purchasing department, do a wonderful job securing paper. But with the terms and speaking directly with those CFOs and the credit analysts, the Treasury Department does a lot better job at communicating our financial position of where we've been, where we are and where we're going. So we really are dynamic team and really work together and to improve the business and make sure that we have the paper and the commodities that we need to, to run the business.

And you yourself, Ben, you mentioned earlier that you've heard a lot of treasurers on the show. It's great. You've been, you know, really thrilled that you've been listening a year and a half now, you've heard a lot of those guys and there's been a whole variety. So some more junior guys earlier in their careers or some guys later on later stages. When you're thinking about treasury yourself and you know, you've got various bits coming up, your CTP qualified, so you've got all that in there, you know, what do you think is coming up? We, we've touched on there a bit about fraud, you know, so cyber obviously is a thing and, and stuff like that and coping with that stuff, but with yourself, you know, what do you think about the future of Treasury? Talk us through what you think. You know, people need to be thinking about they're listening today sort of thing because, and again, you can reflect on it because you heard 30, 50, about 80 shows. So you know, you've got 80 lessons there.

So what are you thinking is next really for Treasuries? I, you know, it's still shifting to the digitization of the treasury functions. I know we implemented Kariba last year and we've seen a great improvement throughout the organization with 650 plus hours saved with multiple, through multiple departments. But I really see that shift in that focus of technology improvements and we're, you know, as a treasurer, we really need to be at the forefront of that and to improve the processes and get rid of the Excel databases that we use to manage the day to day liquidity of the company.

And where do you see treasury continuing the growth? I mean, what are you thinking is, what are you studying? You know, what are you thinking? Do you know what I need to, I don't know about you, but every day I'm getting different emails from and I'm clicking on some of them but about, you know, from different associations. Oh yeah, should be thinking about this as the next issue in treasury, you know, what are you thinking is coming.

Up sort of thing for me right now as I'm, as you pointed out, I, I obtained my CTP back in 2020 through AFP. You know, I really want to continue that with that organization and obtain my FP and a certification as well. But right now I'm also studying for my CMA as well just to kind of broaden that base and to show that I have the full understanding of, you know, accounting and financial analysis.

So you've actually got a broader range because again, so do you see yourself, you know, using treasury maybe as a springboard for the rest of your career and sort of, you know, taking on more wider finance responsibility? A lot of people seem to, you know, follow that treasury niche if you like and go up the treasury ladder and then maybe, oh yeah, I might do some other stuff. But it sounds like you're broadening yourself already. Do you recommend that, do you think maybe for some of the younger listeners that they should think about that rather than just do Treasury. Treasury, treasury.

Yeah, I think any Treasurer really needs to have that broad base so you have the full understanding of your own company as well as the companies that are your, either your vendors or your customer base. But you know, the foundation is highly important, as broad as you can get. I would say as you know, it makes you more of an asset so you can help other departments as well. And really that's what I'm trying to do and that's what I love about synveo is that, is that it allows me to work with all these other departments and gain a full perspective or 360 perspective of the company and how best I can improve the relationships and the business. A lot of companies, individuals might think that, you know, they're just in treasury and that's what I really like about my bosses too is he constantly kind of challenges that norm and, and once the treasury personnel or any individual that's reporting to him to really focus on reinventing yourself, you know, each year to take on more responsibilities to broaden your scope and, and that's what you know, really has helped me, you know, obtaining my CTP and going to get my CMA certification, AFP certification is really get those credentials to, to show that you have the full understanding.

As Ben Obviously it's something we face together and we've got through with COVID and everything else, but it has literally changed the world of work. I said to you before that recently a client we don't work with anymore, thank goodness, have just advertised five positions out there in the world and they've said three in London, one in New York, one in Singapore and they're saying five days a week in the office. And I wanted to sort of go back to them and say, you know, how stupid are you? But I know how stupid they are because they're doing that. It doesn't work anymore. That's not the way we work as we've seen and we'll get it from yourself. But you know, the fact is only. What was it? It's crazy. 5% of people out of our survey of 600. So that's what 1 in 20 people said. I want to be back in the office five days a week. That doesn't work anymore. I mean your ideas around working from home and you know, what, what's you know, like. I know that you've got a great relationship with your boss, but has, how has that changed treasury and your working, you know, rhythm if you like. So back to you.

Yeah, no, our executive team is fairly young individuals as well as younger kids. So they see the benefits of working from home. And for me, Covid was kind of a blessing in disguise. I was working in the office and typically I was getting there between 6 o' clock and wasn't leaving until 6 o' clock at night most days. But there was always this level of attitude where I could be flexible because I have younger kids. So, you know, wasn't there.

But wouldn't you say there's a sort of. Previously and I think people realize that throughout work, throughout Covid, you could work remotely. You could, you know, and someone said working from home. We changed it. Working remotely. But prior to that I still found there was a sort of a sense, you know, even with my clients, slightly presenteeism. You had to be there and you had to be. But you don't need to anymore, do you?

No, not at all. I mean I, I'm completely 100% remote now and I enjoy it. There was always a certain percentage that I allowed what they allowed me to work from home anyway, so I had proven that I could do it. So I know some people, they just, it doesn't work for them. They can't focus or whatnot. But for me, I get more done and you know, it's that hour commute time for a lot of people that they can actually be in front of their computer working. And I know for me and you know, from my experiences, you know, corporations get more out of you by working from home. And you can take your, your 10, 20 minutes and jump on your peloton bike or you know, just go upstairs and hang with your family for just a few minutes. It's wonderful work, life balance.

Yeah.

But you know, you know, at the same time, at 8 o' clock at night you can jump on the computer and do some, get some work done as well.

And so took us through then, you know, we've touched on a little bit about relationships and that was a key thing you built within finance and getting to know guys in the business. Brilliant. You know, we love that. But I know that you and I had related. We'll call it the Oreo story. Can you talk us through that? Why you think that's essential? And then we're going to go towards, you know, we'll put your LinkedIn details, show notes in a bit. But before we do that, talk us through the Oreo story. Over to you.

Yeah, I mean intercompany relationship is always important, but you know, working directly with your vendors and customers is extremely important. I always look at that everybody in the corporation is really a salesperson. Right. Because the best part of sales is that you build those relationships, the relationships that's with that. But yeah, so when I, when I was at actually Net Shape Technologies, we had a customer that we were having difficulty getting them to pay or even respond to emails and. And we actually had this list that was called the Ben List. If we couldn't get a response, it got escalated to me because I'm persistent, I love a challenge and I end up getting with the buyer that was in France and we built this relationship and I found that he had a love for Oreos, but in France he couldn't get those. So I ended up shipping him a full case of Oreos. I think it was like 300 or more to ship the case to him. But it's interesting because he ended up shipping me cookies and treats from France. But we had this dynamic relationship where we could joke and we learn about each other. So I was stayed in touch with Netshape and they never had problems with that company paying them again.

Well, you know why? They were worried they were going to bring in the Big Ben. He's coming back in. He's like, whoa, the pen dog. He's like, that's it.

Boom. So, yeah, yeah, just. It's really just a matter of respect and getting to know the person on. On a personal level and it just changes everything.

Yeah, no, exactly. So. Well, you know, as I say, we've had a great chat and I'm very grateful to be. Because it's sort of a different chat today because some people, as I say, they've been 30, 40 years in treasury, you know, right the way through. Whereas yourself, you're relatively new to treasury in a good way. And so I wanted to sort of have a different slant on it, you know, with your different accounting experiences and relationship, bringing that all in. So then how. That's a springboard for your treasury career. So if we then put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. So you need to segue in there, people will want to connect you. I know, because it's fantastic with yourself. Give us your top tips for the audience. And then we, as I said, we're starting to move to this thing called the final say. So at the end of the, you know, at the end of those. Go straight into the final closing words, Ben, that you will give someone listening today that's maybe listen to it maybe as many times you. 90 odd times. That'd be amazing. Over to you. So I'll shut up now. Over to you.

Be dynamic, be an innovator and constantly challenge the norm.

Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending on where you listen, whether that's itunes, Spotify, or another great place to listen to the show from. It's totally free and means that you'll be the first to see each and every week when we release a new show. And maybe whilst you're there, you could even leave a quick review. Reviews and ratings are among the most important some metrics for a podcast to effectively rank. And as you can probably appreciate, the podcast is a lot of hard work to produce every week. It'd be amazing. Just take, say, 20 seconds, leave a quick review of my amazing guests and their great career stories. We'd really appreciate it. Thanks very much and I can't wait to see you soon.