From Manual to Automated: Practical Lessons for Transforming Treasury Operations with Tim Husnik

Foreign.

To this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show. In this week's show I'm joined by Tim Husnik, the the senior Treasury Director at Medtronic. Medtronic reimagined the treatment of more than 70 complex and challenging conditions from Parkinson's to diabetes, bringing healthcare solutions to more people in more places. They're a global healthcare technology leader with more than 95,000 people working across 150 countries. Their healthcare technologies transform the lives of two people every second, every hour of every day. We've got an interesting chat with Tim because Tim and I have known each other for many years, but finally I've got him on the podcast. So looking forward to this. But I know that we'll talk about things like AI later on in the show and everything else. But Tim, you didn't have the typical introduction, if you like, to treasury and Finance and things like that. If you would talk to us about how you start in your career and then how you discovered the world of Treasury. Over to you, sir.

I was a very creative person in my earlier life. When I was a kid I was always drawing and painting and doing photography and when computers came out I was really into computer art and digital art and actually found myself attending a four year Bachelor of Fine Art program. Went to school at the Minneapolis College of Art and Design. A very creative person, continue to be creative person in a different way. And when I graduated from there, I started at Wells Fargo supporting some of the intranet websites, building websites, doing graphic design, user manuals for finance systems. I was always supporting some sort of business finance system in my first job there at Wells Fargo and realized I knew a lot about the finance systems. I didn't really know much about finance or finance work. There was an opening and a manager took a risk on me and I jumped into a finance role there at Wells Fargo and continued to leverage my creativity to stand out and be different and also learn this new space and that what kickstarted my career.

And when you started that you're in Wells Fargo during the time of financial crisis, an interesting time for anyone. I've been in treasury recruitment all the way through a few of the financial crises. But you were there, beginning of your career, what was that like for you? Quite an intense period.

Yeah, that was an intense period working at banks during that 2008, 2009 period of time. And that was where all banks had to really compress on expenses. And I was, not only was that a primary part of my job, I was a business partner finance person where I would help a team, a technology or operations team, set their budget, meet their budget and cut their budget if we needed to trend expense down. And of course the finance is pressure on the finance teams to do more with or the same with less. And what I ended up doing there was I continued to be very successful. As the footprint of finance came down, I was continued to maintain having a role there and continued to provide my teams and businesses that I supported with really good service. Not just doing the finance work, but helping them solve problems with high level creativity or folks like us are pretty good at problem solving. And when we're working with business partners and technology and operations, it's was pretty good at helping them continue to do that. At the same time, it was a tough industry to be in. And while at the end of my first 10 year career there at Wells Fargo, I started a part time MBA program at the University of Minnesota. And I thought it would make sense if I was going to continue to stay in the finance or corporate space, it would make a lot of sense to get some formal training on finance through an MBA degree. And once I got my MBA degree at a company that was continually recruiting and had a strong presence on campus, which is also based in Minnesota, and I kept bumping into people from Medtronic and interviewed with the assistant treasurer, the now treasurer of Medtronic, Sheila quintus. We met 12 years ago and they had a role open and there began my treasury career.

And why did you think at that time, what was the convincer for you that you've been doing all these, as you say, financial consulting, technology, finance. And I get people approaching me say hi, I'm a technology finance guy and I'd like to move into treasury, please. I'm like, okay, and how do you transition across and what was it like for you as learning curves and how did you get through that sort of stuff?

Yeah, I think my angle on that was I also worked at a bank in treasury as we worked with lots of banks and being able to partner with banks, coming from working at a big bank, I at least knew that culture, I understood that side of the treasury world. But of course I didn't really know anything about the treasury functions because I was in a very different type of role. But I think really what was the primary reason I was selected was I was really good at managing and manipulating data. And the role that I was interviewing for was an analyst level foreign currency risk management position. And people in that role deal with a lot of data collecting, exposure, data mining, er, these are all things that I was very good at. And so what was very portable was this data mining and data visualizing ability.

And then you then got in and what was Medtronic, maybe was Medtronic at that time 12 years ago? What was the company then and what is it now?

So I think so when I joined the Medtronic treasury team, there was eight people in Treasury. It was a pretty small, tight, nimble team. And a few years after that Medtronic purchased a very large company named Covidian. That was a $50 billion deal. And these two treasury teams merged together. A Minnesotan company and an east coast Boston company called Covidien merged. And I would say that in when that merger occurred, the only other person that was in the foreign currency risk management team with me had took a new position internally outside of Treasury. And I stepped into that treasury manager role, senior treasury manager role. But there was no team. I was just managing myself I guess for a while. But I did have to build out an FX team, a combined team that would cover the foreign currency risk of both combined companies. And both Medtronic and Covidian operated in over 150 countries. Half of our revenue, which is about 30 billion, half of that, 15 billion of that's outside the US. And so there is a lot of foreign currency risk that was being generated by these two companies. So I got to build out the team and cascaded through the levels and added things on, always keeping foreign currency risk management as part of my core and just adding on additional things.

And what was the. I gave it about the diabetes piece and everything else explained, if you would. Medtronic is very well known I think. But then I told someone else and they go, what do you guys do? What's the background from layman's terms?

So in the 1950s, a guy by the name of Earl Bakken was in his garage here, close to our headquarters are right now. And what he invented was the world's first battery powered pacemaker. They used to be powered by electricity, plugged into the walls and then connected to the leads in your body through this big almost like shopping cart sized device, which is clearly impractical and nowhere near the size of pacemakers today. And that was really how the company really got its foothold. It then invented and created the world's first implantable pacemaker. And now we have the world's smallest pacemaker that you can actually put into the chamber of your heart through a vein in your leg. And so it's a very non invasive procedure. So Medtronic is very well known for our cardiovascular products but we also have a diabetes area like you mentioned with, with insulin pumps and other things. A very highly innovative company. It created, it was created because of its ability to innovate these very needed products in the marketplace. And we were really innovating at a time when we were really in a frontier space in the United States. And I think that ness of our company just flows through all the teams including Treasury.

And so I wanted to pick up on that because I know we spoke about that in the pre show as well that you had originally foreign exchange, a currency risk was manual process. Then you took it through to best practices. What was that like for you? How was that getting everyone on the wagon and say come on guys, this is the way direction we're going to go. What was that like?

Yeah, for me when I started in treasury in 2012, so I've been in the space for about 12 years now, that was at a time where like you would have to log into your ERP and just start pulling reports to get all of your balances, all of your exposure data. It was a super manual process like it took three people 10 hours in one day. We called it exposure day. And it was not fun because three people, 10 hours, one day, that implies we're working a long day and sometimes it was 12 hours and then we'd have to manually compile all this data and we're trying to, we're trying to basically execute our hedges at a certain point in time where we're setting the corporate rate. So there's time pressure as well. Manual errors and mistakes can be made in the process of manually compiling Excel data. Of course, literally the business system, as I documented it, was a complex weave of Excel files, was what I called the business system in place when I started at Medtronic. And from that point we've invested in tech tools and technology to do all of like right now that process I just Described takes about 10 minutes and it's run automatically by a system. And our risk management tool that pulls that information is connected to our treasury management system and it's connected to our ERP and it's connected to our trading platform. All of the systems talk to one another and there's a high degree of automation and so that's Where I think we're probably a little bit beyond best practice in that. In that space right now. But that has been through a few evolutions of technology.

I want to go back with those evolutions before we get these because you then have been recognized with some awards and things like that. But just go back for a moment. I want to unpack that a little bit. So we've got listeners who are their way back. They're you guys like five years ago. They've got.

Right.

And they want to go along that journey and they might be listening to you at a conference. They're listening to here to the podcast today. Take us through that. Where was the right guys? This is going to be the aim. This is. And I know that the great thing is technology is catching up as well with it as well. But where were you? Without too much detail, nothing confidential, but also talk us through how the project plan, how did you set it up? Was it like right guys, we've got to do it in three minutes by the end of five years from now. Or talk us through that.

I would say the only system of record that we really had existing when I started 12 years ago was there was an outdated system of record for derivatives that helped with the accounting but that platform was being sunset. So the first evolution was we really need to have a new derivative system of record. At this time there was no treasury management system. It was simply we had a derivative system of record that we needed to help us automate the accounting of some of the things that we're doing and that so getting us a to a derivative system of record but then connected to a risk management platform that helps us determine our balance sheet exposures. There's several vendors out there. We've actually used two or three of them over the last 12 years. We've used multiple of those vendors. And I think that was really the first evolution was to get something a systematic approach created with a good derivative system of record accounting platform. And that's what I'll call the first evolution. Yeah, if you go fast forward maybe three or four years, our treasury team then decided it made sense for Medtronic to invest in a Treasury management system. And so what we had to do was evolve from what's the best. What's the best supplemental systems right now in treasury. It's not like there's one system that can do all of the things that you need done. You almost always are adding them together.

Oh totally.

Yeah, they're really bolt on. And I think the best practice is to definitely not Just bolt on the old thing you use with the new thing you're using. But to move to a new thing, reassess everything so that you're connecting the right things to. To the new thing, not just the old thing to the new thing. And so that's maybe the abstract concept is to reassess when those opportunities arise, the holistic set of technology, not just the things that you were doing in the past, plus a bolt on tms.

And then you've won awards for this. And I know that I spoke to Wolfgang, the global treasurer for Porsche, a while ago and we were talking about they'd won a number of awards. I said, oh, look at you, Mr. Award winner and the team and stuff. I said, why was that important? One of the key things he said, he the nice where he doesn't care about wards. What he wanted to do was have some external recognition of the work that people were doing. Because a lot of the time treasury is internally focused. But it was actually by they put forward one and they got that one and then another one because they realized actually, like you guys, they were innovating, they were doing things that other people weren't. And then it led to best practice in other companies and there were opportunities to share knowledge. Is that one of the reasons or what's the sort of background with you guys?

I think I have a personal evolution in that. I know as an individual contributor, when I was on the team, I thought it was really cool to just put out there what we've been doing, see how it compares to everyone, competitive. I just like to compare what we're doing to others. And one, one way to benchmark is to submit what you think is what you think is amazing and see how it stacks up. And I guess as an individual contributor, as an analyst or early days of my senior manager, we started winning a couple of those and I was like, wow, this is great. It was more for personal, I'll be honest, the first few you. But I'd say now as a leader, more of a leader of the team that's managing risk. Oftentimes I'm submitting things that my team is working on or a large cross treasury team is working on. And I think what I really like is that it really shows that Medtronic is what we say we are. We're a very innovative company and that flows through everything. And I really do that showcasing to the teams that are working on these projects and say, hey, look, we are making a difference. We are pushing the boundary of what's being done. In the industry and maybe even setting new standards. And I think it's just really exciting and empowering for the team and empowering for Medtronic.

And again, I was just going back through my notes there. You. We talked before about you were doing more with less. So you were. There were some examples you gave me about you push a team to find different solutions and things without just systems, but as part of that, you've got any particular examples that sort of stand out to yourself?

Yeah, I would say how performance management works at Medtronic is everyone has their core duties. That's really what we expect of them. And I'd say the people that really make the impact, that are really questioning the processes running, trying to make it better, trying to build new processes that are doing something that provides great value, that's really the things that make a difference. Those are the things that are rewarded here at Medtronic. And I think doing more with less is necessary too. When turnover occurs and say your team size comes down a bit, which is a situation that happened with myself last year, and it really. When that occurs and there's expense pressure on all of our. All multinational large corporations to some degree have expense pressure. We always want to ensure that, that the expenses, that the overhead that we have as a company is right. The right number, which oftentimes is. It should theoretically come down over time. If you are simplifying your processes and innovating and leveraging technology, AI, I think, comes into play here soon. And I do think that when you are in a situation where a few of your team members perhaps turn over in one month, like what happened with myself last year, you first really have to say, what can we stop doing? There's oftentimes a bunch of things that are being done by a Treasury group that are wanted by someone at some point in time in the past, but not often questioned, do we need to keep doing this? And so the first thing we did is what can we stop? Because we have to stop a few things if we are going to move to a smaller team footprint and then start the things back up and running that are very necessary, running our core hedging programs, delivering our core monthly reports and analysis. And then all of our projects have to be based on. All of our projects had to be based on simplifying, streamlining and doing what we did in the past in new ways that require less time. It really forces innovation in a way. And I think that's the approach we took.

And this forced innovation, but in a good way. It made you Reflect and everything else. But what was the filter was there. I saw a pictogram the other day, just about the different stages of treasury and it's cash management, then it goes into this risk management, it comes back to investment management. And I thought, yeah, that's good. Very basic level, but it's very basic. It's not very insightful. It's the sort of thing you, you could actually get AI to do. Telling me about treasury to go, here are the five core pillars. But what was your filter again? Without confidence is more just, was it just right? This makes us money or this takes us time or how did you filter again? We're in a vice show for a lot of treasurers, so they might be going, wow, we've got to do that. What was your feel?

So for us at Medtronic, one of the biggest risks we have is on the balance sheet. So this is where you have balances and currencies different than your reporting currency, or if you have lots and lots, hundreds of legal entities and they're all remeasuring balances and generating FX noise. For us, that's the number one priority is to. We really need to have no noise. Like that is number one priority for my team is to ensure that we continue to have no noise in the spots where we've committed to having no noise or to minimize that no much as we can. So that's definitely for us, the number one priority. And then the second item I'd say would be if there are corporate initiatives where we are taking a look, focusing on say interest expense reduction, that for us is those projects that support that, the programs that run that the capital markets team plus the foreign currency risk management team often are partnering on those projects now. Oftentimes corporates are now issuing debt and foreign currency, say issuing debt in euros, but then using net investment, hedging to leverage a benefit, or issuing dollar debt and cross currency, swapping it to currency or market with lower interest rates like Japanese yen. So I think it's projects like that become for me the number two priority. And then I think what becomes a third thing is there's some core reporting that needs to be done. But you think about it, if reporting doesn't stop, the world doesn't end. Right? That's where you're starting to think, if we stopped doing these things, who would it impact? And then that's everything else falls probably to that fourth bucket where we do need to prioritize everything else against one another. Once we have the core stuff figured.

Out, we teased it There we touched on it that both you and I are quite. And we'd had this discussion before that we've only. We keep these to half an hour, 40 minutes. AI technology. We're both in favor of it and a lot of people are, oh, worried about it. I said, yeah, but it's a tool. The tools can be good things and bad things. If we're using the right way and wrong way and things. Your passion, I've got it. You've used it yourself, both work wise and personal wise. And actually I was going to start maybe with the personal example because I thought that was really weird because you gave me the again in our conversation about the number of times you used it a few years ago and then last year and then this year. How did this all come about? Or is that just something. As you said, you've got quite a technical background.

Yeah. In 2022 I heard about this GPT tool and I pull it up and of course I love playing with new technology to see, hey, can I use this? And the first question I asked it, the first question I asked it though was work related. It was explain foreign currency risk management to a five year old as if you're speaking to a five year old. And it gave like this great definition, like I am going to use that. Like I have used that explanation several times and I think in 2022 I used GPT ChatGPT 15 times. Of just 15 queries I was like most of them were actually more about work. But then when you Fast forward to 2023, so last year and when you do prompt something and search something, it lists your. You can come back to any search you've ever done, any request you've ever made, you can come back to. And so I can cut. I could count the number of times I use it. In fact, I asked it to count. I asked GPT to count for me and it said I've used it about 150 times. So 10 times increase. This year I've stopped counting at 3,000, so. So 15 to 150 to 3,000. And as you mentioned, about half of it for me is personal and I live on a hobby farm kind of out in the woods. I'm beyond what you would call a suburb of the Twin Cities, Minnesota area. I think I'm legitimately in country and I have a small vineyard there. And just last year was the fourth year of growing grapes, which means I actually have grapes on the vine and I had to figure out how to actually turn that grape into wine and Literally there's a lot of books I was reading about it as I was preparing but when it came right down to Harvest Day and what to do with it after, I was like all AI. AI has allowed me to generate a fine product, let me say. So for me, I think that's my favorite personal use is in the venting business which is converting a great juice.

To wine and what a Great Benefit to AI and then ChatGPT. Thank you. So it is making a positive contribution to the world, which I love.

Yeah.

So with. In work terms, I know that strictly ring fence and everything else. We had Dan Ferguson on the show in the past and they've got their own internal AI bot where he was able to find out answers to these insurance questions. He's worked in insurance treasury all his career and. But he was then plugging in and able to find out answers for his CFO in seconds, not days seconds. The right people to ask and things. What sort of implications have you used or how have you tackled the treasury challenges?

Medtronic has a Medtronic GPT2 that's a safe place employees can go to ask questions to also load internal confidential data and be able to parse off of it, build new tools. I'd say we're moving down the path of getting value out of that pretty rapidly. We also have the ability to use Copilot for work and integrate that into kind of our usage of the more the Microsoft platform of technology and. But many people also just have personal licenses because like I said, we're using them half for personal stuff, half for work. And there's ways that you can use that tool that help protect your data. You can turn off the data sharing, you can work it in confidentiality mode, etc. And I'd say we continue. Everyone at Medtronic continues to move down that path. Even people that were hesitant towards it, I think are starting to dabble now. The people that were the early adopters are now likely leveraging it in new ways. And for me, one of my most interesting use cases is I have a lot of meetings that I give routinely to multiple audiences talking about foreign currency risk. And I recorded one of those sessions, used AI to generate all of the notes in the transcript and then I took all of that into GPT or Copilot or both. Sometimes I use both tools actually they improve upon one another and generate a white paper so that there's people in that audience that rather than being spoken to, prefer to read about a subject. And what I can now do is send Out. Hey, here's the white paper that covers everything that I'll cover in that presentation. There's now two different ways to learn and digest. And. And I think for me, that's one thing that, I mean, that would take me hours to create that white paper manually, but it literally creates it in five minutes. And I just need to edit it into a draft that works and that.

Sort of connects into people. I was talking the other day, actually on Strategic Treasurer on their podcast. They interviewed me and we were talking about the future of treasury and what we were seeing from new treasury folk. And actually on this week's our own podcast, we were doing a summary at the end of the year. And what we're seeing is a difference when we're recruiting treasury analysts and trying to find them with data skills, trying to find them with much more tech. And we've. I've heard this in the US where there was one of the CFOs who was advising his son's friend who was going to do economics and business. He said, actually, if you can do either economics or business and data science, computers, because he was very good at all of them. And he was trying to pick, said, those combinations are going to make you golden. And the guy was like, oh, yeah, yeah. I said, no, I'm a cfo, I want your resume. Like, I want you to intern for us. And he was like, really? He wasn't even asking. He said, yeah, if you do that, you will become hot property, because that's what you need. Is that what you're seeing?

I'm definitely seeing that Data science, the ability to connect all of these disparate systems together to form a cohesive data set, that is super important. I think that skill is really high on the list of some of one of the most important skills or knowledge to have. I think creativity is one of those things that's hard to quantify. But if you think about it in a future state, if there is technology like AI, that through AI agents able to complete some simplistic human tasks, of course humans, then humanity has more creativity time. We have more thinking time. And when humanity has more thinking time, innovations start occurring at a more rapid pace. And it kind of fuels back. It's like a cyclical thing. So just as important as a certain hard skill like data science, data analysis, data connectivity, you also need these very important soft skills. Like to me, what filters all the way to the top is creativity. And the reason is, and I'm so thankful that I'm a creative person, is create. If You. If robots are doing the jobs of humans, robots are very limited in their ability to be creative.

Yeah.

They really need to be told what to do. They don't really innovate on their own. It requires a human to program them in a way to innovate or help them with an idea, but they don't really generate it themselves. So I think that's the talent or a skill that sort of also raises the top.

I think also there's machine learning and at the end of the day, it's ones and zeros. It's not like actually we think in different ways. We've got all the neurons and everything else. That, again, that's one of the reasons I think people just shouldn't worry about it. But I think you need to be aware of it. And I think there's awareness and there's. Oh, God, fear them coming on. Oh, my goodness. And things like that. But moving into sort of before we get to the end of the show and things. But looking at. You've been. What's the word? You've been a medtronic for a number of years, 12 years. You've done a number of different roles there. Often people move. Why did. Why have you enjoyed it so much? What's been, you know, key to you about the role, if you like?

Yeah. So I may be a little contrarian to the public opinion here or the common opinion, which is there's a lot of people that really feel like they need to be rotating and moving, picking up skills from a variety of different areas. And I do think that is great advice for the majority of people. And I think that if you're a person that feels that's the way to go, then that's what you should do. And I think that's important. But my thought is that you should continue to rotate in roles and careers and work groups until. Because what you're really seeking is you're seeking a job that you love, a job that when you're performing it, you lose track of time. That's, to me, the number one evidence. If every now and then you accidentally work too late, or if you're working from home and your day gets extended into hours and your family is what you doing in there? It's 8 o' clock and you just thought it was 5 o' clock or something. I think that's evidence that you're in a job, that you're really where your talent is lined up with your passion.

Yeah.

And it's. For me, if you find that there's some People that work for 40 years that don't ever find a job like that. So if you find a job or an area of work like that, you my opinion, my advice is to stay in that role, absorb that as absorb that energy. You'll be very productive, you'll be in the zone a lot, you'll be very fruitful and focused and perhaps it might mean rotate within the world of Treasury a little bit too but if you do come to treasure and you find yourself loving it here, but it's a place that you can stay here a while and it's that yeah, people can stay in with too depending on the size of the org and whatnot. But so that's my advice.

I'd like to give a special thanks to flywire, our fantastic sponsors. If ever you've wondered whether there's a way to ease your international transaction hassles, they're the guys to talk to. If you follow the link in our show notes you can see me talking to my mate Greg Levin, their Senior VP of Sales. I get Greg to explain who Flywire are, how they can help you and your treasury team with your cross border payment headaches. Follow the link in today's show notes. Let's get back on with the show. We've touched on AI innovation a lot in the show and we're not quite there at the end but not far off. The final question I was going to ask before we get to putting your LinkedIn details and the wrap up is more AI technology advancing rapidly. What do you see? Either it's that or other things, opportunities, challenges if you like for Treasury. You and I both go to the conferences and this year's was dominated. I know when I talked to Dan at the AFP Nashville he's like yeah, anything with AI and I'm going to it said why? He said. And I said what was it like? He said I saw the good, the bad and the ugly and not necessarily in that order. Some of it was just like last year's news, some was next year's. He said there was that but also he did go to other sessions as well and he was saying some of the it was really interesting. What for you big world of treasury say what do you see as the coming along?

Yeah, I was at AFP Nashville as well and I actually differentiated our presentation from others saying hey, if you need a break from AI, come learn about FX options and how they can be applied to corporate risk management. And we did have three or four hundred people attend so I feel like that may have Worked.

That worked.

But I would say that if you're in a Treasury role, the challenge is what are the companies that can leverage AI in a way that kind of turns into making impact. And I think one thing I'd recommend people do, especially people that are just maybe not really into AI, just a lot of these platforms are free. You can go to a platform. Just this morning I went to grok, which is x.com the Twitter AI is now available. You can do 10 queries per hour. I was just trying out a new one because I haven't used that one much. I said, hey, let's just say I'm a Treasury analyst. What are three ways I can use AI in my day to day job? And what are three ways that I can leverage it in the space of something and just see what it says and then if it says something that's interesting, ask it to dive into the details of that, Dive into the details of applying AI in the space of cash management or cash forecasting. And go down the rabbit hole. What you're doing now is you're going down the AI rabbit hole. And that is what you need to do as frequently as possible to learn about how to use this tool, to eventually make an impact with the tool. Because that's. It has to translate. You can't just use the tool and not make impact. It's like you have to use it for the good of the area you work in. And the thing is, if you don't know how to use it, you can ask it how to use it. How do I build a good prompt? I remember Googling it. I'm like, wait a minute, why don't I just ask AI on how to build a good prompt? Because then I can ask it follow up questions. Yeah, yeah, that's. To me, I think the thing that all corporate treasuries need to really encourage their people to use the tools, try to get them to use them daily and just see what happens.

And that's exactly the way that I've used it as well. I've recently built our own prompt for the salary survey and I'm still trying to teach it and we do need to slap it around a little bit. But the reason I'm doing it is because a lot of the stuff that I was doing manually way back 20 years ago, I had Excel spreadsheets and I was doing pie charts and stuff and it took me weeks. Now it takes me minutes. But the problem is some of the stuff it then doesn't get accurate. I noticed it was Making mistakes, like, why are you doing this? Why? You know, and then so you're having to finesse it and everything else. But the reason I'm doing it is to give value to treasury professionals so that you can quickly compare your salary, compare everything else. That's what you guys need, and that's what I want to do, provide the value sort of thing. So we're going to put your LinkedIn details in the show notes and we wrap that up with the show. What are your takeaways? You've heard a few of the podcasts, so you've seen some people say, be the curious treasurer. That's a good one. What are the ones that you think that people out there want to hear, should hear?

I think the ones or the sections of the podcast, too. I think lots of the podcasts have sections of them that really resonate with me, but it's really about what are the ways to make a difference? What are some ideas? What are some things that you're doing that really set you apart? If you've won some awards and the people are talking about some innovation that they made in a space in treasury, even if that's not the space I work in, I think it's really fascinating to learn and hear about those stories and. And that's what resonates with me the most.

Tim, thank you very much. I. I loved, you know, getting into the AI innovation stuff. I knew I would love it and look forward to catching up with you, hopefully before Boston for AFP next year. But, yeah, thank you very much. It's been great to share all about your background and career. Thank you, sir.

Yeah, and thank you. Thanks for having me.

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