How to Always Keep Evolving in Your Treasury Career with Lorena Pérez Sandroni

Foreign.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast, where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to them about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show.

This week's show, delighted to be joined by Lorena Perez Sandroni. Think I've got that right. Who is Lorena? Very kindly being a guest today. She's the Director of Treasury at SVP Worldwide. Now, people might know the group, but basically they are the world's largest consumer sewing machine company, doing business through affiliated companies over 190 countries. You've got Singer holdings and affiliates. Basically. I think it's as I said here, look at some of the figures. Approximately one out of every three sewing machines annually across the globe. Mental. I've got to say, my mum is a very big fan of yours, as we've said before the show. So, yeah, she'll be very pleased to hopefully listen to this one. But as always, Lorena's got a great track record. She's also speaking at a number of conferences. I know she's doing one with the. The Group Treasures Exchange, where she's going to be talking about resilience and women in treasury and things, which I'm looking forward to. By the time this comes out, people will be able to put the link to it in the show notes. So look forward to that session. But today, Lorena, we're going to go back and how you first got started in finance and then treasury and the wonderful world. So, as always, over to you.

Hi, Mike, thank you for having me on your podcast today. Well, I started in Treasury, I think, like most of treasurers, not knowing where I was going. Right. I didn't know anything about treasury even when my background in studies were about business. But I was very lucky that someone gave the opportunity to a young girl with no experience, experience in Madrid. And I started to understand what this was about in this moment. This company was creating a corporate treasury department with very high quality of people in the team. And I was able to learn and had like a vision of how I could evolve in my career specializing in Treasury. Corporate Treasury.

And you say Grupo sos. Is that the first rule? Yes, yes. Can you explain what that group do again? People can look at your LinkedIn profile, but yes, that was your first introduction. What was that?

Yes, it was a company that owned olive oil brands, rice, any type of food. And at that moment we created, I was part of a great team As I mentioned, with great leaders that show us how the importance of a cash flow, right? And what we all know, that cash is king, right? But at that moment when I started was I don't think Treasury Departments were in a high consideration in companies, right?

In most of the companies and people won't know. So you're an olive oil company. You know, some of the brands we do, we do know of Bertoli and things like that. So cash was, you know, certainly at the center of things. And you say cash is king and everything else. But in terms of your first start in treasury, was that good start? You know, was that good thing to sort of understand flows?

Yes, Well, I started from the first level that was doing payments, right. The good thing is when you are curious and you have ambition and someone can see that in you, they give you the opportunity to try other things and move more in the analysis. I had the opportunity at that time of making myself a trader in the future market of olive oil that existed at that time in Spain. And that was amazing, right. I remember myself talking very weird, trying to. To show that I knew what I was doing, but I didn't until. Until I learned, right. And was amazing because it was at that moment a company that had this. They were creator of price in the market in the future of the olive oil. Then they had a lot of credit lines to manage multiple business units all over the places, international environment and all that. I think that got me into wanting to dedicate my life to Treasury. That is what I have professionally speaking.

Why was it such then what hooked you? What was the passion? Was it because you were part of the business? I know that you and I talked about this before the show, but this is for the people that haven't heard it. Why did treasury grab you so much? What was it about it that you thought, this is me, this is going to be my passion?

Yes. Well, I did small jobs before in accounting, in tax because as I said, when you study business, you really don't know about what is corporate Treasury. But what really, really got me was the real time, right. And the reality of this job, what is in the bank is in the bank, then the possibility to interact with other departments in a company. If you are ambitious enough, you should engage more with the business and try to know about the business, not only be a Treasury analyst doing right. So in general, everything that is related with treasury is I think, in my opinion, all the business. Because in the end everything ends in a cash movement, right? So I think we help companies to provide when they are in need and we have to be in contact with all the departments. I really like that. And also the external relationships with banks and so on and so on. For me it's like a mix between numbers and commercial side that I think fits me very well.

And so you discovered that was it treasury was the world for you. And you know, many years later you director of treasury at svp, but then talk us about the steps then, because you then and again you were then so a natural step from an olive oil company, a little sort of step in banking. But we got away from that, but then into infrastructure and building. Now people say, you know, sometimes I talk to my US clients and they say, you know, we want someone from a similar industry. So from FMCG or from this or this. That's a bit different for you. So you know, olive oil to infrastructures and roads. What was that? So treasury literally takes you anywhere. Do you want to explain that to us?

I think I had that same thought in my mind that you had to specialize in a sector. But when I started doing Treasury I realized that is not completely true. As long as you have the capacity to learn fast and to be involved in what the businesses are doing, in the end you can manage the cash of any business, right? Other thing is that the possibility for me to jump into this infrastructure company that you mentioned for me was, I always said that it was my university in corporate treasury because this was a very big department where I had the possibility to be more related with treasury operations and banking. But also the last three and a half years I was in risk management. So I was able to complete my CV in a way that I started to understand myself, that I was adding value to myself in a way that other people in the treasury maybe didn't have. So I could have something that was attractive for the companies for me to keep evolving.

Right.

And I got that through the changes in job I did and how they contact me. And I did it well when I was thinking how to make my CV attractive and my knowledge in treasury, right?

And when you say you were making it attractive and you would actually proactively like that, as I say the session for next week, you're talking about future proofing your career and that's a key thing which I think people would really get from today's episode and things. But you then sort of chose those moves, if you like, you chose to make to broaden yourself. So again, for the listeners today, should they need to be brave, don't they? You know, what do you Think.

Yes.

You were stepping into this olive oil to infrastructure. Were you worried about that? You know, how did you get over that fear?

I was never worried and I'm never worried about a change. Change in my life gave me always positive things in the beginning might be when you are younger, might be a bit stressful in the beginning, but as long as you, you have the attitude, positive attitude of learn and provide solution, you will be fine. And if you don't try, you don't know what is going to happen.

Right.

It's like everything in life. So it's the same for your professional.

Career and then talk us through the two moves you had there and then the move on from there. So bring us through those. Because you started in corporate financing with an international focus and then did more of the financial risk management things. Obviously they've added a lot to you. Talk us through those roles and again for, you know, say there's a Treasury manager, treasury analyst listening today and they say, oh, corporate finance, you know, that's a sexy area. But, oh, hang on, financial risk management, yeah, I prefer corporate finance. What did both of those give you, would you say?

I think complete my profile. So when you are going to look for a new job, if someone is that is listening is in this situation, you need to understand that what you did in the past is there. It's not that I now work in this company and I only do these four tasks and I got bored and I need a change.

Right.

You did something in your past and it's part of your evolution and you need to be able to explain that in an interview to look for a job and prove that you will be the right candidate for them.

Right.

I've got, you know, candidates that are now applying to me and say, Mike, really, you know, I've done corporate finance, I've done some financial risk, I filled out the blank, you know, I can do that next move. You were choosing these jobs, they weren't choosing you. You were, you know, pushing yourself forward. You know, because you as a treasurer, you were positive about making these moves and then you made the move from that role to say Maxam and stuff. Talk us through that.

Yes. I mean, if you see my cv, my roles are evolving in treasury, corporate treasury, so are adding to the treasury role. So that allows me to. I was very patient, right. And I through the years, starting as a Treasury associ analyst and the names differ depending on the country you are working, but from scratch until getting a director position, I think I did most of the steps. Right. So I see myself as a baby starting to walk in the treasury world. And of course, always because I was lucky enough to have people next to me that see the value on me too. That was very important. But all the change I did, I didn't change. Maybe in my life I would have liked to change to a completely different role to later in my future, in my near future, be able to get a more executive position in a company, but not that easy. Depending on the country you are working, it's not easy to say, okay, I think you were saying more or less the same. Now I go to marketing and then I come back to Treasury. That is quite difficult if you really want to evolve in the role of and be specialized.

Right.

So I see more that I was patient in developing my role, but I didn't get too much trouble changing sectors.

Right.

And I have learned a lot from different sectors and companies.

Because you then made a move, talk us through your next move. And then, you know, you did a lot of these, you know, you were based in Madrid and then you've moved countries but before we get to that, you sort of, you moved to a chemicals group and then you moved on again into education and things. So really, really diverse. So talk us through. And when we do talk through those, maybe again for the, for the guys listening that, you know what, what was different about treasury in each of those environments? What were the drivers?

Well, normally the. The difference are technology they are using or how they organize the control centralized or decentralized. But in the end noticed that all the companies that were hiring me were looking for the same that was centralized, the control, have the control of the cash implement processes policies.

Right.

In the era, I see a lot of similarities. Even the sectors were totally different.

But that makes treasury really boring. You're just coming in compliance controls do it next move.

For me, it's not boring because obviously I'm all my life doing these kind of roles and I really enjoy. Every sector has their own things or every company has their own internal policies that don't allow you to do this or that. Right. So sometimes there is where you have to learn on the way and find solutions. I think in treasury you always have some challenges if the company decides to go to a particular country, you need to research, investigate. So it's always similar but different. Same same, but different.

Cool. So it's same thing but different. What was, what were the similarities? When you, you know, so you. Then again, for the listeners, they'll be able to, you know, we'll put your LinkedIn details at show, notes later, but not at the end of the show, don't worry. But more with yourself in the. How can I put it? You made these moves and you know, chemicals, group and stuff, you know, talk us through those couple of steps, if you would.

My moves were always to in an attempt of kind of implementing things that I really know from the past and evolving my role. When I saw that the company I was working in, it couldn't offer me something more, a better role managing people, things that I wanted to go through, I changed because I think that is one of the things I didn't want treasury to became a boring thing for me, right. If I had a situation in which what I was doing is what I was supposed to do for a while, try for another five years, I knew that my evolution was going to be affected. That was one of the main reasons. So from the infrastructure company to Maxam, the main reason was that I had the opportunity to manage a team and have a manager position and that opened me the door to my next step that was the education sector. But in that moment I was contacted by a person that knew me and worked with me in the past and then things happen and I decided to get the challenge because this company was already in the beginning opening and the door that I was waiting, I think all my career to move abroad. I wanted to experience working in other countries.

And you made the move, didn't you? So you were. Then you were based in Madrid and then you made the move across to the Navster. So to us that, you know, maybe, you know, in reflection of your own personal, you know, not your personal life but you know, you, you grabbed it and you went, yep, I'm going to move with treasury and treasury is going to take me there. Talk us through those.

It was a mix between professional decision because I really wanted this from the beginning and that was the main reason I was always willing to work with international companies. But sometimes international companies are international but then they don't have the possibility to move everyone that working, right, or sometimes your own manager is so selfish that they don't want to move you, right? That also happened. So I decided to do it always. I think that was something that I had an open door always. But at the moment that happened, I had a personal situation that helps the thing to happen, right? So faster than in other situation, another time of my life, I moved and we started the project in Madrid of Saint centralizing Europe, but with the clear objective that decentralization was going to happen in Amsterdam. We moved Here with a team that we created from scratch at the moment Director of Treasury, we created even the office and the team and we centralized all Europe in Amsterdam and was one of the most exciting projects I've ever done. We travel all over the places to transfer knowledge, to decide if everything could be centralized or not. We were interacting with other departments to make sure that we were doing the correct thing and was amazing because it was part of a global project and the same we were doing in Europe, they were doing in Latam and in Asia. So we were sharing the experience with other colleagues. We learned from each other and was amazing. I cannot say anything else.

And this is with Laureate. Yeah, this is.

Yes.

Yeah. So again, can you explain some people that heard that you made the moves, but they don't know unless they're sitting there, you know, like I, you know, I've seen before your LinkedIn profile, but you made these fascinating moves. You know, you've gone from olive oil to infrastructure to universities, then to Epson and then to svp. So let's, let's do two things. I just want to, you know, because I don't want to run out of time today. So with Lauren, you know, it's, you know, about education and things like that, what was that like in treasury terms? And then you were setting up. I was talking to Ricardo, great guy the other day, and he is starting up a Treasury, and he was listening back through and going back through various of our previous podcasts. I mean, we may be doing a book about this because he was going back through saying, actually I listened to that podcast where he was talking about starting up a Treasury and that was his checklist. And then somebody else had a different checklist. What would you say with, you know, firstly, you know, what was it like moving into universities from, you know, say, infrastructure and things, and was, you know, treasury, the things that are similar or different. But then also, what was your checklist?

Well, in principle, my checklist always is to try to know the pool of banks, how the bank accounts are controlled, what systems we are using or not. If not, look for a solution. Right. How we are building the cash flow forecast, how we measure the risk that we have in other currencies, what are we doing on that, the policies, procedures, if they are not there, you have the opportunity when you join a company to create them. I think it's very important.

So you just walk in with your checklist and that's what you do. How do you adapt it? How do you change it?

I kind of try to do one to one with other people in other departments too. So I like when the company is organized like they want to introduce me, but if not, I will be the one initiating the meetings to introduce myself. I think you need to be all over the place and know the key people in the company to get information because you will need information to make sure that your reports are accurate and that you guarantee the liquidity in the company. And of course, changing in sectors, you have different ways of getting the cash in and out. So you need to make sure you learn that from someone in the company and get involved. Your job as a Treasury is not only go in the morning, go to the bank and see how much money they're there and if someone requires a payment then you say yes or not.

Right.

We are fighting for this profession to be recognized as they add value that we provide to the company. So you need to make sure, if you want to dedicate to Tracery that you know about the business to you cannot be separate from the business.

You have to get close to it. And you know, so again, sort of an education business. Talk us through the sort of challenges, the treasury challenges of an education business versus, you know, them making a move to Epson and then, you know, svp. So you went again, you've had some fascinating, you know, computer hardware to just go through. What was education like? What was that like for Treasury?

The main difference I found from education to Epson and SVP was the structure of the companies in we are talking in Epson and SBP with sales companies and then education, you have students all over the universities and that is what you will collect basically.

Right.

So understanding how the business works and how much importance a sales company structure has is very important because now you are not just managing the account of a university that is totally centralized on you. You have to negotiate with the sales companies, understand how the things work, how every country collects and that kind of things and the particular things in every country. It's not the same to work with Turkey, France, you need to understand that. So it's a work you have to do. When you join a company, it's the first thing instead of trying to show that you work very hard, first try to know the company you are joining.

Yeah. Get to know it first inside and out.

Yeah.

And then so you made a move from there to so the commuters and things like that Hub, as we've had a couple of guys that have been in, you know, that sort of industry on the show before. So we understand that. So let's talk about You a bit more of that. So you know, you were getting progression. You know, you then were treasurer, Emir, treasurer, and then before you joined, you know, director, treasurer, svp, what's it been like? Or you know, what are the things you've been focusing on?

So I was very focused on managing teams. When I moved from Laureate, I had to move Laureate because they sold the European business. So I knew I wanted to stay in the Netherlands. So that was the main reason I got the job in Epsom. And then managing people for me was the challenge of my life. I always said that I'm a people person, but managing people is not the same. And then, well, you learn, you try to do your best, but that is not enough because you have to be the provider of these people and manage the frustrations, the success, try to motivate them to lead. When you identify that the person can do it, right. Give the opportunity of doing things, even when you see that they are gonna maybe have the same mistakes as you.

Right.

But you need to let them experience that too. For me, it was an attempt of managing bigger teams, bigger accounts. It was a big company. Well, I had the situation when I joined the company that the department didn't exist as a Treasury department because the former treasurer was not there for two years and a half already. So I had to organize everything and that was a challenge. And hire people, taking care of what you needed as a priority.

Right.

To make sure that you don't only hire super talented people that later won't do the job that in treasury operations is always needed.

Right.

But also providing a nice evolution for them too, an opportunity. So I think we did a great job there. In fact, when I leave Epson, one of the members of the team had the opportunity to get my position. So that. That was great.

Right.

When you see that happening, you can say, my God, maybe I did something good.

Right.

Because that person was ready for the next step too.

Unless, you know, again, we're going to run out of time. So I don't want to. I want, you know, because I'm interested in again, some of our pre conversations. But then you joined, as I say.

My mum's favorite company.

So talk to me about the sort of, you know, this latest move and things and svp and I've joked about it, but tell the listeners, if you would, what you do as a company and what it's like in treasury terms.

Well, this new challenge for me was very. I was really excited to get this opportunity because the company decided to create a company in the Netherlands that will create this Treasury Department that I'm the director of. And then from there I see a lot of opportunities to create right from the base of whatever I did in the past in other companies. I think I can add value to this company.

And just tell us, what was the structure of treasury when you arrived? Was there much of a Treasury again? For the listeners, we've already discussed this before the show. Now I'm asking a loaded question. Get over it. So talk me through what was it like?

The treasury role as a director or a treasurer didn't exist again for a couple of years. I think if I'm not wrong. So I have the opportunity to create the Treasury Department. We have in the company diversify in the regions EMEA and US and Latin America and Asia, people that are doing treasury tasks. But we don't have the role that I was hired for. So it's a challenge, but also an opportunity to try to do what I like the most. That is centralize the control of the Treasury.

In one point, you've gone in there, you centralized it, you set it up and been relatively short time. But what's it been like so far? You've got everyone on board because that's the kind of person you are. You get stuff done.

I'm on the way of negotiating that.

Right.

I joined the company last October. I dedicate myself to really understand how emea that is my responsibility right now works. I think nowadays is in control. I analyzed the system that we were using and what we can do in the future to help to this centralization that I would like to implement. I'm on that right now. I cannot tell you how it will be. I can tell you how I would like to be.

Right?

And it's a more centralized control, professionalizing the Treasury Department and make the senior management to join this adventure that I would like to implement.

And do you set out with a vision? You know, do you have a vision board? You know what I mean by that is right. I've done this three, four times now, right. I want it to be like this. Or what do you. How do you set it up?

First, I set the goals that we can achieve, right? And I try to explain to senior management why this will be the good thing to do as a company when a company. I think all my life, even when the Treasury Departments were mature, we have been at some point involved in negotiations to explain why a Treasury management system, yes or not, why another person in treasury why we should split the bank guarantees control from this. Right? And in this case I think I have hard work to do in convincing and making understand everyone that this is what the company needs. Because when it's totally decentralized and there's a few people doing in between tax, between treasury and another department, things are going on because treasury operation is going on. But we don't have a professionalized Treasury Department. So that is my. The job I'm doing right now is trying to make this happen.

And part of that, Lorena is going to be speaking leading a panel the other day around table rather. But you're talking about women in treasury, you know, having resilience, valuing yourself and future proofing your career. By the time this comes out, you'll have done that session. So we'll be, you know, it'll be great. I'm sure you can go through that session. But what are you focusing on? What are your key tips in there before we get towards the end of today's show? And thanks, you know, it's been amazing. But what are the key tips you're thinking about for those guys?

Tell the key themes are. Well, I'm very focused in, in trying to motivate women to speak up in their roles to be able to negotiate their salaries and not be afraid of. To want a promotion. Right. I think as a woman I have in finance because treasury was always part of finance until I was in companies that they split their responsibilities. I suffered myself certain situations that I think I can help with and I have had, I think I've been a motivator myself with the teams I manage and always trying to make them understand that they can speak and they should not be afraid of doing it right for any reason.

And when you say that they should speak up in what situation? What do you mean? That they should be talking more about putting themselves forward for promotion or that they should have confidence in themselves with their abilities? What's the key thing for you in your head?

Having confidence is key, of course, but not everyone has that well developed.

Right.

And sometimes even myself, I think I develop that through my career. I was not the same. Lorena was not the same 10 years ago than is now in this sense. But also I think I've experienced also managing people where I had women and men that men are more willing to try in a one to one to negotiate your salary, to ask for a promotion. Women know. And that has been my experience in my career as an individual and as a manager too.

How do, how do you do that? Sorry, just how do you do that and be fair to men? You know what I mean, by that is you want to be pro women, you know, hire a lot of women in my company. I've got quarters, we've got all that. But how do you do it in a balanced way, but, you know, be pro ladies? You know, we contribute to various things. Women in treasury, on treasury today, we do various bits. But how do you do that in a fair way or how do you encourage it? Sort of both sides.

I encourage both sides, like literally, because I also had men in my team that they were never, they never asked for a raise in the us. They were in the company until I joined the company.

Right.

Try to explain how I was doing the request and how I was going to present the business case for this to happen, but also explaining that not everyone is in a position like I was at that moment, that I could do it as a manager. So sometimes they are the ones that had to present the business case and be able to say, I have achieved all this and I think I'm in a position to move forward in the role with a promotion or with a salary increase, etc. Of course, the salary increase are always subject to how the company is treated that in the budget. And sometimes it's not only the manager to present a business case, but then you can provide them with other things that can make a difference that year for that person, like some training or things that will help them to grow.

And so actually, funnily enough, I've written about this in the past about the treasury spotlight and treasury sometimes, I think in the past we've seen sometimes a bit more of a support function rather than being so key to everything. But I think, think, you know, coming through the pandemic, it's definitely been in the spotlight, but I was, you know, I'm talking way back when, you know, with the global financial crisis and there again, we'll put a link to it about the, the spotlight moving away from treasury and it being, you know, supporting the business and being people saying it's closer to the business now more than ever. But now the sort of crisis isn't going to be back to sales and marketing. You know, come on, we've got to get them out there and things. How do you say that? You know, treasury professionals, they prove their worth. How do they keep the spotlight on them? Would you say, what are you doing or what are your recommendations before we go towards the end of the show.

Keep very attached to the business, understand the business and the needs, because you will always find some spot where you can help through your analysis.

Right?

So either in human resources proving salary payments or being more efficient or reducing bank fees because you detect with some colleague that we are doing something that is creating more bank fees. And yeah, be in touch with all the departments that you have to interact. Don't isolate yourself. Because we were isolated in our professional careers and now I think I experienced two big times where treasury got the value in a company and were in crisis.

Yeah, don't be isolated. I mean, I think that's one of the issues where people have been working remotely or hybrid or whatever that they're still. Yes, you're proving the value of treasury, but who are you proving it to? Were you proving to your CFO and some of the finance. But again, when, you know, maybe when people working in an office there was much more visibility of treasury, when it's now more standalone, you know, and there are other areas of finance but apar that, you know, they're much more defined because they're more functional, if you like, in that focus, whereas treasury is across the business. Yeah, but that's been more difficult. But. Okay, Lorena, we, we're, we're coming towards the end of today's show and as I do every week, we'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes so people can connect to you if it's right to have them in the network. We'll also put a link to the session that you're doing as well. We'll have done by this stage, so we'll put it in there and a couple of other links. But if you reflect over and they, as we do every week, the listeners are listening and they will be, you know, junior guys, treasury managers coming up the curve and things like that. And I think got some good tips there. But also we'll have some treasurers on the episode and they'll listen to war stories a little bit. We cover more about starting treasuries and things like that. But as you reflect over that, what, what tips would you go to those guys before then we, we finish for today?

What would you say take the opportunities and look forward to, to some exposure in the organization?

Yeah, amazing. Well, just. There you go. Take opportunities, get exposure. That's it. I mean, I'm not even gonna expound on that. I just love that. Thank you very much, Lorraine. It's been amazing and I look forward to seeing you in, in real life at a real life conference.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Bye bye, bye.

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