How to Progress your Treasury Career with Petra Rosenauer

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they built their careers, where they are now and where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. In this week's show, delighted to be joined by Petra Rosenauer, the head of corporate Treasury Emir at Flextronics International. Founded back in 1969, they were, they started originally as a family business making circuit boards for a number of companies in Silicon Valley. Over that time, they've scaled beyond belief. They're absolutely huge as a group. Nasdaq listed back in 90s, then done lots of different things. I'll get PET described flextronics, you know, they're more called now Flex and everything else. But Petra herself, she's based in Austria. We're going to go through her background. She started many years ago. We won't hold against her in banking again. If people do this, it's fine. But Petra, you started you your career, you qualified, did your degree and then eventually discovered treasury and Flex where you spent most of your treasury career, which is fantastic. Take us back, if you would, right back to the beginning how you first started finance economics into treasury and bring us up to date and then we'll talk about some of your ideas about treasury as well. So over to you.

Okay, thank you very much, Mike. Thanks for the introduction and having me on this podcast. So a little bit about my background. I was studying economics and after economics started working in the banking sector, which I liked from one side, but on the other side it was product related, right. And I wanted to see more. And I also wanted what always my wish was working in a global company. So not so much focused like in an area or in a region. I wanted to see more. So getting back, you know, from the financing sector, I moved on into a global company, American based company, operating globally, as already said. And I started there in finance doing cash flow forecasting. And while I was doing this for a while, right, I was always looking around, right, what could be my next step. And while treasury is not really so common in Austria, where I'm based on, I was, I thought this is a kind of interesting mixture between banking and between finance. This was my initial thought, right. And there was also somehow it was more coming, not so much predicted. I wanted to move out of Vienna to the countryside and was looking for a job more closer to my new home. And suddenly there was really a job opening with a global company in Treasury. So I was going there, you know, Applying my knowledge in treasury was, I would say rather not really existing. And they were looking for somebody having experience in cash forecasting. And this is actually why I applied there because I thought I was doing this for the past two years. Right, let's see if I really can make something new in this company.

Because you've been so just before that you'd done different things, GE and things like that, but you'd been with Western Union and things before you discovered Flex, was that right?

Yeah. So after my banking, right, I was going over to Germany in GE and was doing sales, which was completely. I was doing this mainly because I wanted to work in GE and they do not really offer finance positions within finance or treasury positions or banking positions in Europe. And GE in Austria was really tiny and in Germany it was big by the time this was in 2000. And so I started out in sales actually. And while it was interesting, it was not really so much my thing. I wanted to see more, I wanted to see more. You know, I missed the part which was the finance related part. And so I returned back to Austria and this is when I started with Western Union where I was actually in this cash for forecasting department which you already described.

Yeah, that's how you discovered it, sort of that first initial introduction. And then you discovered treasury and then.

I discovered treasury with my move over from Vienna to the countryside and there was like a job opening with Flex and I was schooling Flex, you know, what they are doing and it was really, I've never heard of them before. And I was also fascinated in how many segments and areas, you know, they are really working with. And I also liked this idea to build up a cash flow forecasting for this company because based on the job description they have one in place, but it's not really working. And so I had my first interview there, it was 2016 and I met my former corporate treasurer and I was fascinated by the way how he described my treasury and how much he was traveling globally. So this global picture which I always had in mind, he was basically, you know, showing it to me how that works, going to Asia, having a team there, running over to the us having a team there, working together really close. I had my experience with Western Union, as I said, but there it was just, you know, more regional focused. And I really never met anybody from Asia, nor was working on a daily basis with somebody from Asia, nor from the US And Flex is a completely different world. And from day one until now, I really like to work in this company because things are moving in this company, it's never what you have done yesterday doesn't mean that you need to do it today.

So Petra, just explain to me if you would for a moment what actually Flex do as a company. Over to you.

Thanks Mike. Flex is one of the largest global electronics manufacturing, services and supply chain logistics company. Registered in Singapore, but has an administrative headquarters in the US with approximately 160,000 employees across 30 countries. Flex provides manufacturing, innovative design, engineering, real time supply chain insight and logistics services to companies of all sizes, across industry and markets and especially in Covid crisis. I have to mention this, Flex is one of the world's top 15 manufacturers of medical devices.

So that was an excellent description of what Flex does as a group. So you then you came in back in 2006 to a senior manager, you're a supervisor and treasury analyst. But sort of, as you said, it's always different at Flex. But talk us through on a Treasury perspective and lead us through your treasury journey since then. Because you've been there so a number of years. Some people do, you know, three years in a group and then move on, move on. You've been there 14 years, so give us a walkthrough of you if you like.

So as I said, I started with cash flow forecasting, but this was just a tiny little part, right? We build up a forecast, a global one afterwards the market and we follow very much what's going on in the market. This is what I also like to invite banks and can you show me what products are currently available? Our focus in the first years was really on cash pooling. Cash pooling was a really big topic, right? How to get liquidity stream up. So this was like at the first, in the beginning years, definitely one of my tasks to build up a cash pooling next to the cash flow forecast. Forecast was important for the pooling, this is why I mention it so much. But the pooling was something we had in place, a global one and I think we have been very unique on that, right? Working together with all the teams, asia and the U.S. i think by 2012 Flex was one of the companies who were running a global cash pooling. And after that, you know, liquidity was always a big topic and you know, we also started investigating how good are we here at the cash pooling, always reviewing our products and at the same time going out to the market and see what's out there, what's next, what can we use in Flex to make ourselves more efficient. After that we were coming up with a Treasury management system, you know, helping Us to streamline and to work closer with a team in India who was just mainly in place to help us on a day to day liquidity process which was shared service center. I think in the time back we also have been very unique because I think in 2008 we started moving activities out of all the regions and centralizing them in the shared service center which we had by the time back in India and Mexico.

Right. As you say, very early days to do that sort of thing. And what was that process like this.

From a Treasury point of view? We have been very skeptical because before, you know, you all have done that and how can somebody understand it better? But I understand it was the training of people and it was really the communication and also helping our finance team to understand it better, to centralize something, train people there that this could be really of help to get away with the manual process and with the day to day process and get people or shift the time people have in Europe or in my treasury team over to other tasks, take them away from this day to day processes over to let's say processes which are new to the company. Talking more, getting out more to the market, talking more to banks, develop new tools. So a kind of, you know, shifting roles. But as I said at the beginning, it was a kind of very skeptical for all of us. Right?

Yeah, they're moving that maker cross from.

Our, that we always have been doing things in this way. You know, how can somebody do this better or why should we do it? So this skeptical, right. Was, you know, that was gone with trainings or with, you know, daily phone calls having people understanding what we are doing. So this was really a big, I mean it took a while. It was not done in a day, it was done in years, let's say like this. But now this is something which is out of question. Right. We have a shared service center and they support us.

And then as it developed, you know, sort of thing and you know, and I can see this but you know, some of the guys listening, they wouldn't have seen how you grew the role. Then you became a director and things like that. Talk about would you talk about the progression of your career and the steps you took so that again someone listening today, they say, well, okay, this is very well. So she got progression, she was there. What did you do to elicit that progression? What did you do? What steps did you as a person take that helped you get your career up the ladder?

So I'm a person who do not like to stand still. Let's call it like this. And I think, you know, it's always good to find mentors and to support people to get mentorship. And this is one part which helped me a lot. I saw it in my boss right behavior. I always felt like some kind of mentorship or saying, you know, that you're looking for a mentor. And listening to people is also very important. So when I started as a manager, this manager role was for me something which I liked a lot, but I wanted to do more. It was like, I'm not sitting there and do cash for forecasting the in the out. I want to do more and I showed the person that I want to do more, right? I was at the beginning extremely focused on my career. So, you know, like I was working, I don't know, longer hours, right? But I was never complaining. I like to do that. And as I said, you know, at the beginning, you start with something, but you need to be like open minded. You need to see like, you know, you need to talk to people, you need to, I would not say copy it, but I always had bosses with really extremely good knowledge. And I copied part of that, right, because I wanted to grow. And I also talked to other people in finance, you know, and got the learning there. One of my partners in the company is Tax and that did my learning from there. And also, you know, sometimes it's also luck or not luck, people are leaving. And then of course, if you have the knowledge and if you are ready, you know, you get your chance in flex, you get your chance and you take the chance, you know, because you want to grow again.

You know, were you studying or were you just managing people or what were you, you know, what steps were you taking? Again, this. For people that are listening in today and thinking, oh, okay, that's great. And you were, you were taking the best ideas from some of your bosses. Was your role expanding or, you know, how was, how is the role changing as well?

While I was a manager, I had no reports. And after I moved into a director position, I got my direct reports. And I really have to say I like teamworking. I'm really a team worker. I don't see myself as the one who is commanding others. This is for sure not only a team in my belief can do a great job as a single person, right? You cannot really go to this or reach a goal. I'm a strong believer in teamwork. And with this I think that the more I got to it, or let's call it like this, before we moved things over to shared service center, we have been a larger group as we are right now. And since you are growing into position, the team comes with you if you are doing a good job because the team wants to learn as well. And you are depending on your team. And managing people is something I never really thought about it because I think, you know, it was always for me the kind of acceptance know that people in a team need to work and there should be one who is leading this team but leading also with the feedbacks given from the team.

And you talk there about the team and we spoke about this before the show. You manage people on a global scale. Can you perhaps describe how that's sort of structured? You got. Because you manage people but also you got these relationships with people at different levels and things like that. So you know, you got us, you got Asia, you got Emea region. How's it structured for you and you and your team?

As I already said, right. I mean for us we don't really have this hero here. This is what I like as well about the global companies. So we can reach out to everybody, you know, where we think that we need their input. And the same is, you know, they can reach out to us and if we don't have the knowledge, we move it forward to somebody who has the knowledge. So we help and support each other how it is to work in a global team. I think it's very important to listening, even if I repeat myself, but listening to other people because people are coming from different environments, they have different, you know, these are individuals, they have different characters. It's always very important before decision is done right, listen to what others opinions is, what do they have to share and how can we combine this together? Even if I have a task on my desk right before maybe I shouted out, you know, we should do it. But I'm never saying this is how we should do it. I always get to get people's opinion, how they think, you know, where we should start it and how, you know, we can make this efficient. I think this is the key for me, this is the key. Listening to what other people's opinion is and somehow combine it and make the most efficient out of that.

And you said that again. We both talked about how, you know, I've been recruiting 20 plus years in treasury and Treasury in the past was much more factual, probably the best way, you know, just like black and white and everything else. Now it's much more consultative in, you know, when you're in companies and as you say that sort of spills into the way that you Work with teams and things like that. And you're much more the role of a Treasury consultant. You're not a Treasury consultant, you're managing and leading Treasury. But your role as treasury isn't just like right, this is the way to do it. Cfo. Thanks very much. It's much more. I'm thinking about this. There's a new initiative coming up. Can you perhaps describe that again, how you see that evolve?

Absolutely. As from the time when I started this was 2006 treasury was here managing liquidity and now 2020. Treasury has the role of the advisor in the company on liquidity but not only on liquidity anymore. You know there comes additional in like also when it goes like to structural changes or whatever the company. So it is like definitely a change in treasury from. Not so many from coming from this treasury specific topics which did not change. Right. Be it liquidity, financing, etc. It's more an advisory role generally. Right. Not only to the cfo. I would say generally to the CEO or to anybody who needs it. Because treasury is growing in their role and was growing in the past in the role. We have an extremely good picture on the market, what's going on and also talking to banks and they update us a lot. You know what's going on. We can put very positive things aside to only managing liquidity to the company.

And then part of that technology wise and some of the new initiatives. Do you find those coming at you left and right.

That goes together with what I already said right. In 2000 and whatever 2006, 7 I was mainly focusing the hot initiative was a cash pulling. Nowadays we talk about blockchain tms, all new systems being from supply chain financing systems over to factoring systems. There are so many innovations out there and treasury is not the one who takes it anymore. We are developing things right. Whatever startups are coming up to us and say help us, we need your help. Give us your feedback, let us know your knowledge. How can we move on with things. So I think it's a completely as I said this is basically more an advisory role versus this original treasury related liquidity management.

And what are you seeing from that? Just there and sort of close out. But you know what initiatives are you seeing coming through that excite you the most? You think wow, that's amazing or what the other ones that you think lots of people are shouting about. But is that really going to make a difference? You've done this for a number of years. What would you say? What advice would you say to people?

I like this advisory role, right. I like it very much because in this it gives me, you know, it spreads out my knowledge. I always need to be on top of it instead of, you know, accepting it. I can model something, I can define the way how something should look like. As I said, you know, if startups are coming over asking for our opinion, you know, how a Treasury, from the treasury point of view, how should we model this? Can you support us? This is a completely new role, was not there before. But on the other side, I also think treasury should also be know what's going on not only in the market with new innovations, but also like, you know, they should be in the. They should be brought always right into bigger discussion in respect how to move the company to the future, you know, on future decisions of the company.

And with that, what is the most exciting thing for you? The one thing, is it blockchain? Is it automation? What's the thing that's coming out to you?

Generally it's all together, it's all innovations currently out on the market. I'm interested in all of that. I'm interested in all of that, how I can apply it to my current task. I'm doing how make this even more efficient because I think I'm doing efficient stuff. But how can I make it even more efficient? How can I bring in all this stuff, you know, combined or make it better and it helps my company to improve things. I think blockchain is super interesting and it's still, you know, and I'm very focusing and like to join webcast. I think all the products we have right now autonomous thriving. Right is even interesting for me and it's not treasury related. So I think all the things which are currently going on, you know, they're interesting for treasury person.

And when you we talked again about the relationship between yourself and the global treasury, who's got very much more strategic role now as you've seen treasury become the consulting, but then more strategic rather than just doing and just reacting and things and you're having an input to that as well. You know, is that where you see treasury continuing with yourself? You know, you just like.

Absolutely. I think treasury is moving on.

Right, so what do you want to do? How are you then following that? What are you doing for yourself to sort of develop yourself in that direction?

I think this comes with the job I'm doing and how treasury is changing. To be really fair, I'm not thinking that there is like you need to do this and then you're in this strategic role. I think we are all, as a treasurer, are moving into this role. We are not staying at this as we have been before. I think all of us are now forced to move to become the strategic leaders in companies because this is the way of the future of a treasurer.

So Petra, you manage a team within your role as they're the corporate treasury there, you sort of, you recruit those guys, you train them, supervise them. Actually, we'll come back to the recruitment piece maybe in a moment. What you look for in people. But when you're training and coaching those staff, what do you like as a, you know, a mentor? What are you looking for? Again, we've got people listening today. They'll be thinking, oh, actually I've just been given my first person to mentor. Do you sit with them and sit through their goals and detail it or what do you do to coach those guys what you like?

We have a little bit different coaching. This is how I introduced it because the one who comes new gets always teached by the one who was before him. Sounds a little bit strange, but I think it works. And why I'm saying this is because before you can make a decision, you need to understand what you're doing. And this is also like, you know, like how I got it told and I think it works pretty well. So what I always like to see is when the guy, the one who coaches, the one you, is so proud about what he did in the result, how the new one gets along. Was this now a complicated sentence? But that means my team, you know, is working. And this is also the experience. I'm not going so much the new one and ask him, you know, you understand what you're doing. This is what I would never do. I will go to the coach and say, you know, how is your experience? Do you think you're on the right way? Do you need help? You know, do you need somebody to be brought in to make it easy as I help you and to the new one. I just see how he's doing by getting feedback from the coach. Of course I would also talk to him straight, but I would not so much focus on the activities he's doing. I'm just more looking at him, how he's doing in the environment and would support him more, you know, in the environment, like reach out to team members, talk to people, you know, this is the way how it should be. So I'm looking more that the global relationship works good, you know, with my team and my team members taking care. Right? That's the person you want in the team. Gets trained and speed up, taking it back a stage.

Actually when you're then looking at bringing in team members and I don't know when you last brought people in, but when you're looking to recruit, how are you identifying people? What are you looking at? Makes obviously this is a show hosted by the treasury recruitment company. What are the things you're looking for in new recruits or people that you want to bring on board?

So one which is most important, right, is somebody who is like a very open minded person, people who want to learn and you know, it's treasury related, people who understand the market. I'm not looking out for somebody, right, who is an expert, but somebody who is interested in the market, interested, you know, to do things differently, interested to understand and as I said, not an expert, right, to understand market moves.

How do you assess that propensity to learning? How do you assess that?

We have some kind of testing which we are doing developed together with hr. But these are like more when I bring people in, I always look at their resume and look, you know, did they ever move out of Austria? Where did this study? I was talking to these people and say, what do you think? You know, is fascinated in the global environment. And then hearing from their feedback, you know, I can somehow, you know, balance. Are they really interested in the working environment as we have or is not the candidate, you know, for this group on the other side being a little bit interested about the market? You know, we just ask like general questions, you know, about whatever, some kind of sectors. Like now I would ask in this crisis, you know, like, do you think that, you know, what, what do you think how, what will I ask in this crisis? Is a good question, right? Because I don't want to focus so much. Maybe I focus more on the airport sector because we at the airport, right? Maybe I would ask him a question about how many people do you think are currently at the airport and trying to get off from Austria?

So Petra, we'll put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So if it's appropriate for people to have you in their network and you want to connect to them, you can connect or not. But if someone looks at your profile in LinkedIn and the things, you know, they say, do you know what? I'd like to have that sort of career and that's the sort of companies I want to work for. What are the two or three major tips you might give to someone listening today? Now that may be someone more experienced or someone perhaps, you know, earlier on in their career, they're Coming up the curve, what the, you know, your nuggets of wisdom that you would perhaps give to them. What would you say?

Okay, listen to people, be interested, you know, on all kind of not so much pressure related, you know, be interested in what you're doing and make sure you're able to play an advisory role. I know it's different to what other people are saying, but I do not want to repeat it. But for me it's really listening to people. Make sure you're ready to take on an advisory role in treasury, being passionate in what you're doing, playing an advisory role and be an innovator in your area.

Great. Well that was nice and summarized. I think if you listen back to the show guys, you're gonna, you know, get those from there. There's been a lot of stuff, I think it's been interesting with Patrick. You know, you're a very straightforward person. You listen, you've got a passion about what your subject and as you say definitely people will, you know, get some great nuggets of wisdom and just like straightforward, this is the way treasury is. Move on. Next. Thank you for your time today. Really good. As I say, we'll put Petra's details in the show notes so you can connect to her if it's right for both of you to have the network and look forward to seeing you when we're out of lockdown and we can meet up at the next conference or other than. Thank you very much for your time today, Petra. You've been an absolute star.

Thank you Mike, thank you for inviting me and looking forward to see you.