Making your Own Treasury Career with Todd Yoder

Foreign.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast. This is a recap episode or an update if you like, with the wonderful Todd Yoder.

Todd and I spoke way back when, January 2020. We're in the middle of 2022 and well, we were well overdue a conversation. So I'm bringing you up to date. You'll hear the original podcast with Todd, amazing treasurer, still actually at Fluor, but a number of things have obviously happened throughout the world, events and everything else. We catch up with him where he took it over from the last time we spoke and then he brings us up to date. So enjoy today's episode.

In this week's show, delighted to be joined by Todd Yoder, Director of Global Corporate treasury at Fluor Corporation. Now founded in 1912, Fluor Corporation is a global engineering, procurement, fabrication, construction and maintenance company headquartered in the US they work across the world, headquartered in Texas. Revenues of approaching 20 billion I think it was in 2018, 53,000 employees across 100 countries. So a truly global multinational. So you're going to hear from Todd a little bit later on in the show exactly what the company is about and some of the different things that he gets involved in in his role as the Director of Global Corporate treasury there. But as with all these shows, I want to get straight into the guest chat and go right back to the.

Very beginning for Todd.

So Todd, tell us about how your career got started and how you discovered the wonderful world of treasury, if you would. So maybe go out to college and apply and then bring us through to the modern day as it were. Over to you.

Mike, thank you for reaching out and inviting me to participate in your podcast. I'm a fan of the podcast and so very honored to be a part of it. This is a great opportunity, I think, you know, as a treasurer in this stage of my career to do some reflection. So this has been a good exercise for me. So my, I started out as a, as a kid growing up, my dad owned a construction company and so I grew up as a, as a kid on the construction site and my dad being an entrepreneur. I got an education from a very young age about running your own business and how that works and some of the challenges that come along with it. So that's, that's kind of really the start of my business entrepreneurial education. Did go to university right after high school, but I was able to find a part time job as an account payable clerk. It was for a privately held chain of high end retail jewelry stores. So it was a very Interesting position. And it got a lot more interesting over the six years I was there. But it gave me an opportunity to get exposure to accounting and more of the business and entrepreneurial. And it actually led to, by the time I left that company six years later, I had grown to almost being a business partner to the owners of the business. At one point, I remember being 25 years old and responsible for 15 direct reports and under them another 150 or so indirect reports at 25 years old. And this, this group of people was a very diverse group of people, but it was kind of a crash course very early on in how to manage people and how to get the best out of people and how to have some of those hard conversations. I can remember being in my 20s and having to let people go from the business. And at that age, that was a tough thing to do. I always say it's kind of a mantra. There's a famous psychologist, I think his name is Rao. And a lot of what he talks about, he speaks at a lot of the Ivy League schools, is perspective. And perspective is with anything that happens to you in life, it can be a good thing or it can be a bad thing. And a lot of times people, you know, they focus on, oh, this is a bad thing. I was asked to leave my job. But things can be a good thing and they can be a bad thing. And you don't know, no one knows until the future comes. And I haven't met anyone yet that can predict the future. So when something happens to you, just put it in perspective and use that mantra, this could be a good thing, this could be a bad thing. So I'm going to drive on and we'll see where it goes from here.

And then you, you left that role. And that obviously sounds really, sort of prepare you for some of the other treasury roles. And you sort of moved into that treasury position. But then you joined, is that right, Zimmer, Is that that. Was that the next move from there?

September 11, 2001, and the bottom kind of dropped out of the luxury goods market. And so I joined a marketing company as the controller head of finance. And I learned a lot at that company about branding and how important branding is and, you know, objectives and strategies and tactics and touch points and, you know, the entire world of branding. In addition to the finance roles I had there. And so I was running finance, I was setting up credit senior credit facilities and buying real estate for the company as it expanded, I decided to take a role in banking and I went into a credit commercial Credit role. And so analyzing commercial credits and working with CFOs. And I did a lot of things for the bank as far as loan loss reserves and fed funds and borrowing. So it was a great, great experience. But about a year into that I decided it was time for graduate school. And so in the mid-2000s, I enrolled an MBA program at the University of Notre Dame and I left the bank lucky enough to have a professor who spent around 20 years at McDonald's in their treasury group. And he taught international business. And I kind of fell in love with treasury and international business at that point. The end of my degree, I found a position in treasury with Zimmer Orthopedic Company is a multinational company and more of a manufacturing type environment where they manufacture hips and knee replacements and they have a trauma division and a dental division. And so I was tossed into a lot of really fun stuff there at Zimmer.

And then with that role, it was obviously very international treasury, if you like looking at some of your previous stuff, you'd touched on cash management, liquidity and everything else, but that was a more formalized treasury position as such. We'll talk later on again in the show about your thirst for knowledge and everything else. But you did that role. You, you moved through it and then you took the next role at wellpoint. But what did Zimmer give you? If you like, in treasury terms, that's in, in your, in your back pocket, as it were.

My first week at Zimmer, they asked me to, hey, we want to buy a jet. It's $23 million and we want to know if we should buy this or we should lease it. Financing implications and consequences. There's tax to consider and what are those impacts? And Tuesday, today, on Friday, we want you to present. And then it was okay, we have cash management globally. We have four major banking hubs around the world. And we want you to run cash management, we want you to run short term investments. And we have a 2 to 3 billion dollars at any given time FX hedging portfolio. And we want you to run that as well. The hedge accounting, the impacts and you know, being a manufacturing type environment, you know, they're looking at year over year impacts from foreign currency and then they're looking at plan versus actual impacts. That's a big focus. And then so how are we performing? And do we want to use vanilla forward contracts or do we want to use options? What are the pros and cons of that? And back in those days it was call up three different banks and Trade off the spot and then, you know, and then move and trade into the forward curve. It wasn't a nice digital platform with a lot of auto pricers on the other side. And it was a different, different environment back then.

And then you did three years there, but moved on to join what was anthem. So you again, health industry, you know, orthopedics and healthcare and things. But actually you joined a health healthcare benefits company. You know, maybe talk about if you were just how that was different or similar, you know, obviously some maybe crossovers, but in treasury terms, pretty different drivers for the business. Would that be right?

Absolutely. It's all about net interest income in the insurance business. It was one of the largest insurance companies in the world with about $70 billion in revenue, $14 billion in cash while I was there. And we had 10 million with external managers and 4 billion internally and then a debt portfolio of around 9 to $10 billion. Good opportunity to come in and I did a lot of hedging, pre hedging on debt issuance. And so I had the first opportunity, hands on to lead a debt issuance with the treasurer there. So it was extremely good experience. I hedged in interest rate derivatives while I was there and got to build out the company's first foreign currency hedging program. They had recently acquired some, some business in Europe. Part of the claims process, you know, when you're traveling outside of the US and there's a claim, how does foreign currency come into impact? And so I was able to build that out for the company and $4 billion worth of shares that, that we repurchased just in a 12 month period over $4 billion. So accelerated share repurchase programs and how they work. And the treasurer there, a University of Chicago MBA and one of those true geniuses that you run into in your career that definitely leave a mark and a positive mark. So it was to me going into work and working, having the opportunity to work with him was, was really a lot of fun and I was loving it.

Yeah. And then the move, why move then? If you made these, you know, these roles were in Indiana and things like that, and then you made a move to Texas, you know, how did you got this inspirational, you know, boss and everything else, continuing the growth of your career. Was it just that the number one job came up or how, how come you moved?

It was one of those things where you get the call from the recruiter and I usually will take those calls because I think it's an opportunity to learn. So they asked me to, if I would have a call with the treasurer of Fluor Corporation and surprisingly, you know, by the end of the conversation she was so impressive that I agreed to fly down to Texas to just outside of Dallas here where we're headquartered and, and meet with her and some other people from the company that she wanted me to meet as well.

Sorry, as a tip for people, what would, when you say she. Well, it sounds like she hooked you, you know, you've been baited a little bit. And they said, you know, what was it about that conversation? Now again, this is a give tips to the listening audience. What was it there that just grabbed your interest and said, right, I'm getting on the plane, you know what happened?

It was just her knowledge of treasury and she described to me where she was at and where she was taking the treasury organization and where she and really what she needed to build out. We had the discussion about how, you know, in your procurement, in your supply chain, people push currency risk. So if you have a procurement, a buyer or a contracts manager, they push currency risk downstream and they think they're doing a great job. But what they don't realize is a lot of times they're paying a contingency and sometimes those can be really expensive in order to push that risk down. So we just had a really, really good conversation. She's super intelligent.

The company itself, again, you know, people can look it up. But just in a nutshell, how would you describe fluoride?

Yeah, so Fluor Corporation, it's an engineering, procurement, construction, fabrication and maintenance and services business. You know, at Fluor we build some of the world's most complex projects from like the San Francisco Bay Bridge is a project Fluor did. We build mines, copper mines, we've done diamond mine Gordie Howe Bridge project with the LA People Mover project and then oil refineries. We've done currently finishing up some, some very large oil refineries in Kuwait and then the fabrication business we have for large module construction in China. So you know, we're made up of projects and so these are a lot of, you know, the mega projects can be 15 plus billion dollar projects. So the way I look at them is they're almost like standalone companies. You know, we have a CFO and a CEO. We call them project directors and finance managers. But really they're, to me they're CFO and CEO roles. There's a lot going on. There's never a dull moment. It's not like a manufacturing environment where you kind of get into a rhythm on things. And I Say it's a lot easier than an animal like Fluor from a Treasury perspective.

And if anyone looks you up on the web, as I did and did the pre research for yourself, they will see, and we talked about this before the show, that a key thing I noticed about Todd and from this research was if you like your obsessive thirst for knowledge, if that's the right way to put it, you know, what drives that, why bother? Because again, people see videos when you talk about FX risk mitigation. More recently, it's about robotics and AI, which we can move into. But why are you so driven for that thing? What is it about that that makes you go, I want to learn more about that? What's that part of you? If you like.

But I think that's just, you know, everyone's wired differently and for some reason I'm wired to have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and understanding on topics that I'm interested in. So if I have interest in a certain area, I can't stop until I feel like I have a very good understanding of how it works and, and behind the curtain and what's really going on.

So when you were growing up, when you went on the building site and your dad making your shift bricks and things like that, were you taking apart radios and things like that, or was that something looking at how does this work?

Yeah, you must have done some really good research. And my mother loves to tell the story. One year I got a BB gun for my birthday and I was really fascinated by this BB gun, so I wanted to, to find out how it worked. So I took it apart piece by piece, took it apart to see how it worked. And then she realized that no one in the family knew how to put it back together again. So, you know, but to me, I figured out how it worked at the end of the day, so I was happy, you know. Then later on I did the same thing with a telephone. Back when we used to have, you know, the telephones and they dialed so I had to take analog ones. Yeah. So I was like, and now you.

Do the same in adulthood with Treasury. You're taking it to bits and you're saying, well, look, can we now streamline this? And again, this is one of the other things that again, if people look at your background, they might say, oh, is he more an IT systems driven type treasurer? And I don't think you are when again from our discussions, but it was more the use of it more in a practical sense than that. Again, we talked about the fact that you want to use it, you want to use automation to make your job as an interest, as a treasurer more interesting. Would that be the right way to describe it?

Would you say with robotic process automation and APIs, artificial intelligence, which is a very general term and it means a lot of things to a lot of different people. But you know, one of the things I was very interested in is Jeff Bezos and how I think it was around 10 years ago or more when he came out and basically said, you know, if you're a business division and you're creating data and you're not creating an API with your function and your data so that it can be accessed easily and efficiently and streamlined by other parts of the business, you no longer have a job. So, and so that has turned out pretty well for him. Yeah, he's gained, gained some wealth from that, that perspective. And I think that is where there's a tremendous amount of opportunity when I think, you know, a lot of treasurers, I think when they hear API, you know, because there's the buzzword bingo out there right now. And I think, you know, look at Gartner and the overhyped artificial intelligence and where it's at. But APIs are not just, you know, real time banking information, PSD2 and, but what open APIs are, they are a conduit to do a lot of amazing things, not just with the banking partners, but within, internally, within your organization and to be able to pull different. And at Fluor, we're a very complex company with a lot of moving pieces and we have some of the best engineers in the world and we have some of the best buyers, supply chain and then construction, you know, some of the best construction workers that actually build these projects in the world. So the company has some of the best people in the world, but it's a very complex organization. And so the communication between all of these different moving pieces is critical. And so I think there is a lot of opportunity. And treasury, you know, tends to be involved with the fintechs and the innovation and technology that's out there. And so sometimes we are the ones that kind of bring ideas into the organization and looking at that sort of.

Future drive and different things. Is that the big push? Do you see that treasurers again? Sometimes when I talk to treasurers, we, we sort of look at the interface between yourself and the CFO and you're being used a lot of the time as the point man for the cfo. So that there's all these different technologies, there's all these different initiatives Coming to us as a company. Can you lead out in the front and filter this for me? Is that what you're finding your role is similar to?

In some ways, I think my role here at Fluor, and I've taken on a lot of that, so I'm involved with. We have a blockchain steering committee that we formed a couple years ago. We have a smart infrastructure steering committee, and then we have innovation programs, Innovation and transformation programs. But I think my role, because when I came into Fluor, my objective was to learn the business. Because in order to be effective in the treasury role, I think, you know, you have to have a servant's heart, but you have to lead without fear and live without regret. But I went out and made built relationships with different business functions across the world and in different countries and did a lot of listening and a lot less talking to learn what are the challenges that they're facing, what are some potential opportunities for the organization to make those improvements and utilize technology to do that.

So, Todd, moving on, as we approach the end of today's show, if you like, what we will do is we'll put the Link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So if it's worthwhile connecting with Todd and he feels it's good to have you in his network, feel free. But you look back over your career and people can see that on LinkedIn, for instance, what would you say or what advice would you give to some of the listeners today? So they might be treasury analysts, managers, or coming up the curve or other treasurers and developing their treasury teams and things.

But just looking back at you and.

Your career, what the fundamentals for you and the advice you'd give to other treasury professionals to, you know, have a similar background to you, would you say?

Yeah, I would say be humble. Humility, I think, is extremely important. There's always so much that you can learn, and it really doesn't matter what stage of your career that you're in. If you have the right approach and the right attitude and you're humble and you have some humility, you can always learn. And so learning to me, especially when it's new technologies and stuff, that, that you're not akin to, it's just a great opportunity. The other one would be lead without fear. So never let fear drive your decisions. So never be afraid to share your experience and your perspective on things. And the other thing I say, I'm a firm believer in your career. People don't make your career for you. You make your career. I think that Was early in my career, I thought, you go in and you work really, really hard. You work harder than everyone else, and you do really good work, and then your career gets managed by your supervisors. And that's not the reality. Once I grasped and understood that you make your own career, those supervisors and those business leaders, they don't have the time to make your career for you and show you the next steps. So you have to take that initiative to think, you know, this is what I do, this is my job. How can I bring value to the business? What can I do that is creative, that is using my skills, my education, my experience, my perspective to bring value to the business and then run with it and show those supervisors and leaders that you can take that initiative and you make your own career. You're Wayne Gretzky or one of them, you know, that said, you miss every shot that you don't take. So don't be afraid to. To take the shot.

What a wrap up. Amazing. That was great advice there from Todd Yoder. As I say, we'll put his details in the show notes. Great. Thank you for today's show, Todd. I really enjoyed it. As we said just slightly earlier on as well, we will be doing some further sort of special edition shows as well, because each and every week we talk to treasurers like Todd about their careers. And that's fantastic, and that's what people want and they come to expect. And we said it's like coming to a cookery show. And that's what we, you know, we show you how to cook or we show you how a treasurer got to where they are. But you don't want to turn it on. And it will be about wine or about beer. You know, what we want to do is keep it the focus on careers, but we're going to do some other special edition shows. Todd's kindly agreed to be one of the guests on that, and we might ask questions about it, about different developments in treasury and things. So guys out there, keep listening. But again, Todd, amazing to talk to you today. Thanks for your time. I'm sure there'll be a flood of LinkedIn requests to connect with you, so good luck with that and it's just been a pleasure. Thank you, sir. Thanks for your time.

All right. Thank you, Mike. It's been an honor to participate in your podcast. I'm a big fan and so looking forward to a future conversation with you.

Thank you, sir. Many thank you.

Wow, that was amazing, amazing podcast there with Todd. I'm thrilled to say he's back he rejoins us two and a half years later. I wonder what's happened in that time. Let me think. We were just talking before the show, January 2020. And then a month later, two months later, all the doors came down, shutters came down, everyone you're working remotely. So Todd's going to rejoin me, we're going to take the story from there. He's done lots of other things since then, got involved in lots of other areas, was exactly the way it was. I know you guys heard on the show earlier about taking apart radios. He stopped doing that. It's fine because his dad weren't there anymore. But other than that, Todd, if you would, as always, it's your show. Maybe if you would bring us up today and then I'll chip in with some interfering questions. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Mike. It is wonderful to be back and looking forward to being back in 3D instead of 2D. But I'll settle for 2D for now until we get to Euro Finance in Vienna and get to afp.

But bring me up to date. So with your role as you transitioned into, you embrace technology and that's a.

Key facet of you.

And we talked about that in the show earlier.

But how did that help you guys?

And what was the technical impact, personal impact for you and the team? And then bring us out of Pandemic, if you like. Walk us through that, if you would.

The Pandemic, you know, there was a lot of tragedy, a lot of hard times. It impacted, I think, everyone a little different, you know, across the world and in different places, in different regions and different family situations. And, you know, my heart really goes out to a lot of those folks that were impacted negatively. I think when we left off, Mike, I was just working, launching a Treasury automation project.

You were?

Yeah.

And you'd been on stage previously about it and you were showing some of the, you know, the audience members how to get involved in that. And that was, you know, obviously at that time it was sort of everyone getting used to that idea. Then you've taken it on and you've also. Then I know you've had awards, so congrats and various other bits. But, you know, how have you taken it on then? Talk us through.

So that project was, you know, fx risk management, focused, built. It was a very collaborative effort. So I had strong support from Fluor's world class IT group. We have strong treasury team. And I had Enrique Calderon actually from Fluor treasury, who's. He's since retired, but he is a powerhouse, actually. He'd be a good podcast guest for you. And in Bloomberg I had Mark Lewis and Jack Style and some others. So we had the a team from Bloomberg that was involved. So it was a very collaborative effort. And what we did is created the Treasury Data Warehouse, the TDW we call it. And very different from a data swamp, right, with a bunch of useless unclean data. This is a lean, mean, efficient data lake. There's no swamp swamp about it. But what we did, just high level is utilize Bloomberg technology, the APIs to pull in a real time spot and forward curves, pull in volatility correlations and look at liquidity, some liquidity metrics to connect the Treasury Data warehouse to real time data from the erp. So analytics. An example is like, you know, the hedging efficient frontier where to hedge, how much to hedge and if you want to delta hedge or if you want to hedge full on exposures, how to hedge very low liquidity and not much of a forward market. It's a great tool. We use Power BI on the back end for really strong data visualization. You know me, I'm very key on actionable reporting. If it isn't real time, then it isn't right. And if it isn't actionable reporting, then why waste your time? Then In January of 2021 I got a call from Fluor's chairman of the board and he wanted to have a conversation. So sat down with him and great conversation. He's a great person, great business leader. Decided to work with our NuScale team. So NuScale is a business that Fluor bought back when I started with Fluor, so somewhere around 11 years ago. Over that time Fluor has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the business developing the world's first small modular reactor. Actually is the first to ever receive approval from the nrc. So the Nuclear Regulatory Commission approved new Scales technology. They're designed for a small modular reactor. Over 2021 we raised 190 million of private capital. In 2022 we raised 110 million investment in equity in NuScale from JBIC, which is the Japan bank for International Cooperation, which is I think a first of a kind for them to invest in a US public company. Then we went on in this year, earlier this year to complete a de SPAC transaction which we could have an entire podcast on DE SPACs and SPAC. So we took NuScale public through that merger transaction. One of the SPAC deals of 2022 with the lowest redemption rate, which just means, you know, how many of the Investors in the SPAC part of it redeem their shares for $10 versus continue on with their investment into the new publicly traded companies. One of the lowest redemptions rate in 2022 the SPAC brought another 150 million and then we raised a pipe of another 235 million for NuScale. And new scale is just a powerful company. They're amazing business with great leadership, strong company, tons of PhDs, a lot of great nuclear engineers and they're well on their way. So May 19th actually of this year, so just a little over one month ago we were in New York on the New York Stock Exchange for the ringing of the bell ceremony. So we had a great celebration. NuScale is now a public company trading on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol SMR for a small modular reactor. The great experience and not your typical treasury. Right? So yeah, it was a lot of fun too. I think just my reputation that I've built over the years like we've talked about before is, you know, always stretch and always look for opportunities to, to add value to the business. Don't be afraid of anything. Lead. Lead without fear and live without regret. And so I think all of that kind of culminated into me being asked to join the team.

One thing we didn't touch on, and I know we, we did touch on the first episode but a bit more on the people side of things. I know you're big on that as well. What was that like? I was just, you know, scribbling some notes there. You, you know, everyone when we last spoke, then everything shut down and everything else. But as well as utilizing technology, you then worked with your teams and then as you say, you've sort of transitioned a little bit as well within your role. What's it been like for you and your teams, you and the teams around you and things like that and where do you see it going next sort of thing, people wise, I think, because again I. Sorry, it's a bit of a loaded one. I did the European Treasury Leaders summit with Euro Finance. You and I have talked about this and I said to these guys in the room, I said it's all very well, all of you having these tables and there was liquidity planning, there was treasury management systems. I said there should be a massive table over there and just says talent. I said, but actually there'd probably be nobody else sitting on the tables because talent is what it's about. You are the people that make these things happen and you're the person that's made these things Happen. And you've been a big part of that. What's that been like for you? People wise, if you like.

Mike, you caught me a little off guard with that question, but it's a really important question. We've had this discussion before about the right brain and the left brain to be a Treasury leader and to have a lot of impact. The pandemic, it was like Warren Buffett and when the tide goes out, everyone sees who's swimming naked. I think the pandemic kind of did that for treasury leaders. People skills, their business acumen, how to deal, how to communicate. It kind of showed who was swimming naked and who wasn't. It has been a great experience for me. I've been able to. To draw closer to people. I serve on Fluor's Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Council within the supply chain business sector. Also serve on the board of the Women's Business Council Southwest. Here in the US it DE&I is just so important. It has to be key. I think treasurers of the future, people are looking for authentic leaders. Being authentic is. Is just crucial and it's very deep. There's a lot that goes to it. We could probably have a podcast on what it means to be an authentic leader.

We've got two spin offs there already. So no, I'm looking forward to it.

You know, every day is a gift. And the way I look at it, it's an opportunity to leave a positive footprint on the earth. Some of those footprints are maybe shallow, but some of them are very deep and lasting. Every interaction you have with your coworkers, whether they're colleagues, they report to you, or whether you collaborate with them, whether they're supervisors or the top of the house, you know, every interaction I look at as an opportunity to leave a positive footprint. Because the other thing is, especially with the pandemic, you never know what people are struggling with, what their fights are. You need to be cognizant of that and look to make a positive impact and leave positive footprints, you know, through life. Somebody really smart, I heard say the other day that if you live a really good life, when you get towards the end of it, you get to live it again, right through memories. And you don't want to be one of those people that go through life, you know, throwing punches, because you'll end up at the end of it a pretty beaten up person, right? You know, it seems pretty basic kind of common sense, but you can't just say it, you got to live it. You want to end up with a.

Life well spent yeah, exactly right. And it's what the word. That's what it's taught us as well, you and I, you know, you and I have talked about it in the past, that that's one of the things that pandemic, you know, we've moved past it and it's how you then move forward, you know, look at the future. And that's one of the key things. I certainly think about it as well, like, well, we're not gonna take too much because we're gonna see you and I'll see your session. We've got a session in AFP as well. We could do. And we will do more. We have got more feature podcasts coming up. We've got a series coming up in later on this year in September, which will release to people. But, you know, but I'm then also going to follow some more feature episodes because this podcast has just grown and grown with the support of amazing people like you. So thank you for being on episode 82. This will probably be episode 200 and like 20 odd or 215. I thought. I thought we'd do 10. I thought it'd be 10, maybe 50. But everyone's stories are just what I live for. So I really appreciate your time, sir. We'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. Just reflecting on it and final takeaways for people. You gave some other bits and there was in there about humility, which I loved. And just listening back to it, I said this to another guest, to Joel Campbell. I just go, we were good. You know, like, we were really good. It was like we gave a great podcast. We get some great free value for these guys. So again, for the people you know, walking away, they've got double value. They've had the previous podcast. They've got you two and a half years later. What takeaways are you going to give them from your sort of back pocket, if you like. Back to you.

Success is not owned. Success is rented. And the rent is due every day.

Boom.

Drop the mic, drop me, leave me on the stage. That's it. The Yoda exits the room.

That is. That's just.

Yeah. Earned every day, given every. Ah, I love that. Well, no, with those final words, that's it, I'm done. Yeah. Thank you, Todd. Listen to this guy. Come see him in Euro Finance. See him. Afp. Obviously, if my sessions up against some AFP come to mind, it's all me. Yeah. It's all about me. There won't be. We'll make sure we won't. And hopefully we'll share it. Well, I just. It'd be great. It'd be great to see you, Todd. You're amazing. Success every day. So say that last word. Say those last words again, if you would.

Success is not owned. It's not something we own. Success is rented and the rent is due every day.

Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending.

On where you listen.

Whether that's itunes, Spotify, or another great place to listen to the show from. It's totally free and means that you'll be the first to see each and every week when we release a new show. And maybe whilst you're there, you could even leave a quick review. Reviews and ratings are among the most important metrics for a podcast to effectively rank. And as you can probably appreciate, the podcast is a lot of hard work to produce every week. It'd be amazing. Just take, say, 20 seconds, leave a quick review of my amazing guests and their great career stories. We'd really appreciate it. Thanks very much and I can't wait to see you soon.

Sa.