Performance Under Pressure – A Conversation with Ian Cochrane, Partner at Gazing Performance Systems

So welcome to this interview with Ian Cochran, one of the partners at Gazing Performance Systems. This is one of our interviews on our Partners We Trust page if you like. Now you'll notice we've got lots of amazing partners there. Now Ian and I are actually friends through rugby and known each other for many years. Ian and I were having a chat, maybe over a beer or three, I don't know, but we were talking, I was saying about how I do the podcast each and every week. And I've also prior to the podcast been talking to treasurers about how they become accidental managers, accidental leaders. They've been forced into this situation where they were managing one person, maybe three people, now managing 80. And I say, oh, how much management training, how much coaching have you had as a lead? And they go, none, zero. And Ian, I'm like, this is wrong. And so I said to Ian, look, can you do something for us? Can you help me so we can pitch it whatever way we can do it for the guys that just want individual leadership, want bigger groups and everything else. I said, I tell you what, why don't we hop on a video, you explain who Gazing are, what you do and some of the. Because you've had some amazing clients. So go us through. So can you tell us how long have gays have been going focus of the work and then we'll go into the performance bit. Over to you, sir.

Sure, of course. Thanks, Mike. Yeah, we've been going 25 years plus. Our focus when the business first started was around if we want to claim to be a development organization and to help people get better, we've got to be really clear about whatever we leave them with has to be usable from day one, from moment one. And that that came out of some work that some of our partners have been doing in the previous work. So we came up with the idea of having one page overview maps and specific one page tools to help get the job done, whether that's entry level, customer success, agents in call centers, all the way through to one to one executive coaching. And the maps and tools vary and they tend to be tailored to the individual. So if we were going to do some stuff with the treasury people, then they'll be tailored for Treasury. If it's work with the pharmaceutical, it's, it's yeah, so very much about helping people to function. And I think the focus for us is performance under pressure. So that's our strap line. And not that there's any pressure of course for the treasury people with all the stuff going on, they just yeah.

Of course, they just, they just sit back and they go, yeah, I've got all this stuff going on. And also I've been not coached on how to do it. I've not really which do I do it? And a lot of become, as I said, accidental leaders.

And I think that's, and I think that's part of the rationale behind what we wanted to do is to say to people, look, we've got to help people to function, but we've also got to help them function when it's really challenging and that's when it's all going well and everybody's all right. Most people can function. Even if you're inexperienced, you get experienced and you build. As the pressure builds though, that's when people start to falter a little bit or they screw up or. And that's okay. That's human. Yeah, but it's not okay if you do the same mistake three times in a row. And that's not acceptable and it's. And people won't tolerate it. So principle as a performance partner is to say, let's establish what needs to be done. And whether that's leadership or whether it's management or whatever, whether you're planning, whether you're executing, whether you're reviewing or whether you're just helping people to stay on task when they need to most. That's what might models are based on. And they get to be tailored and work towards specific verticals. Yeah.

And then when you're talking about the specific management skills across, say, treasury departments, because you work with, as you said, a wide range of industries, you've also, you've done differently, like pharma, but you've, as you say, you've done finance guys, but you've also done sports stars. You've done a lot of stuff.

Yeah, the performance under pressure thing is interesting because actually sports people, business leaders, the military, health, education, they all have to function. They're all humans, for one, and they all have to function in high pressure situations. So our models are designed to say, look, one of the, one of the biggest issues for most humans is these. Yeah, they're a huge distraction and they buzz and they think and they. And the takes your attention off things that are critical. And the treasury is no different to any other leadership role. You have to have your attention on task for the big stuff as much as you can. Often it's distracted and that's where we struggle. So our models are designed to get people to keep their attention on task as much as they can. If they do get distracted to recognize it and get back on task quicker. And that's the thing. If you can get an edge on getting back on task a little bit quicker, that's better than wasting time spinning for five minutes. If you can spin for 30 seconds, that's a significant increase in productivity. And it's not a right or wrong and it's not a good or bad, it's about it. We think about mindset as a skill and I think that's the important thing. If once you've got a mentality and a process that says look, I think I can get this a little bit better, I think I can get this a little bit better, then you're, then you work on it. And I, with most organizations try and establish good structure. They work on giving people skills. I think the mindset element, which is another crucial part of performance, doesn't get the attention it should. And that's one of the areas that we spend a lot of time on.

And you and I have also touched on the fact that there are other players in the market that yeah, some treasurers and treasury professionals are being offered maybe some management coaching or none at all. Yeah, but they don't, they may be focused on the technical skills, but actually the softer skills. Why do you think people should consider like performance mapping and some of the specific program you provide? What's the difference?

I think our stuff is designed one to be memorable which is why we come up with the idea of one page maps and one page tools. So once you've seen it it's hard to forget which is start rather than a big thick book which you can't. In a pressure situation you can't say hang on a minute, let me check my notebook.

Page 363. Yeah.

You've got to think on your feet and you. And that's why you've got to be really clear about what your plan is, what your execution is and what your review is. But also I think it's then usable under pressure. I think that's the key thing. So it's not only are you able to think about it, remember it, but you can use it when you need to most. And that's the, I think that's the thing that differentiates us from some of the other stuff I've done. And it's not to say ours is better than everybody else is useless, it's just to say people need, people need stuff that they can access. It has to be accessible when they need it most. And I think that's when it's useful.

So it's not just accessible. When you and I talked, it's tailored as well, isn't it? Because there is sometimes a concern that regarding change treasury teams, they're going, oh, I haven't got time for change. And this is why partnered with yourself in particular and we've been talking about it for a while because you know, it's not just off the shelf, give it to you exactly. As you made the point there, we've.

Got to work quite hard when we get started in opportunities, we work quite hard before anything is delivered, actually understanding the environment, making sure that the language that we use makes sense. We need to know the treasury three letter acronyms. It's important. So it's not a. You don't just go in, get a sheet, dip and then go out, which is often the case. Unfortunately it has to be laser guided to the thing that's appropriate. But there are wider lessons. There are lessons from sport that business people can take, there are lessons from the military which business people can take and we can bring some of that to life on a day to day basis. Our models can be virtual, they can be face to face. We have a blended approach so we try to get people together in a room to start with because it's useful and you can work with each other. But a lot of the follow up is virtual because we've got that facility now and it allows people to keep it fresh for longer and that's once you're into it, then you're in much better shape.

And how have examples or how have these frameworks helped larger corporate strive performance or what have you seen sort of thing on a business impact wise?

So it really varies. So from organizations as varied as Avis seeing significant increases in contacts with their customers, to leaders that had no previous management experience but actually found it was really helpful to have just an overview. Half the time is we get parachuted into these roles and nobody says, oh, here's a bit of help. First it's a bit like, it's a bit like the old witch's dunking stool. If you go under and you drown, you weren't a witch, but if you come up, oh, you are a witch, yeah, your neck and either way. And I think that the, the mission for us is to say let's give people something that they've got as a fallback. Their framework is helpful, it's a structure that's useful and they can use it when they need it most. And I think once you've got that, then it's much. Then you become more skillful at it. Are people experts after two days training? Of course they're not. But if you can spread the interaction over a three to six month period with little short and sharp little sessions. Do you remember this? Oh yeah. Oh can we just work on that little piece again? Then you become much more comfortable with the material and you go, okay, actually I know what's going to happen now. Are you watching out for your teams? Being distracted? Have you seen somebody who's toxic within the organization causing problems? How are you going to deal with that as a leader? Are you going to shout it out in front of everybody or do it offline? All those sorts of things are part of the process.

And, and can you explain a little bit more? People are saying we can say about what next steps but actually before we get there it's more the bespoke nature of it because I've talked to various associations in the past and said they should be providing this. I said look, you should do this. And they're like oh yeah. And then they get on with the skills and qualifications that they're doing. Yeah, we equip them with that. But then look at the other stuff. They're not been providing it. So I've been saying that again that's what led to this original conversation. Yeah know, because you can do it on a one to one, a one to, you know, small group, one to a larger group. And we talked about doing, we may do some London sessions, may do some international sessions and actually that's something I want you explain about that you do it. You're not just based, whilst you're based in the uk you've been a couple of other places as well. Bit like me traveling the world. So yeah, talk us through what you've done in terms of. And this isn't a sales pitch, this is just a presentation of what you've done because you know, I was surprised when you was telling me some of the places you've been. I thought hang on, he's gone further than me, what's going on here?

But it depends. It's driven by our customers. We, we did some work with Beiersdorf a few years ago where we had to present in Beijing with translators. That that's okay. We've, we work in the States quite a lot, sort of north Canada and, and the US we work all across Europe. We've got, we can deliver, I think it's now 12 languages including Arabic and we've got partners dotted around the globe and some of our Biggest corporates require us to do things and programs and workshops concurrently. So we've just been doing some stuff in Portugal with a customer where we ran their sales kickoff and there were six of us delivering little packages of work during the course of the three days that they were together. So that that sort of facility we can present to. Typically we do small groups of 10 to 12 on in little workshops and if it's 50, if it's 200, we've got all sorts of options.

And it could be one to one as well.

Absolutely.

So global treasurers, which is one of the key things I've said as well.

Yeah, exactly. And I think. And that then it becomes a bit more sort of mentory type stuff about okay, the treasurer might arrive with a couple of current issues that they've got that they're stuck on. Our job is not to fix it for them, is to get them getting their thought process around. What should I be thinking about? What are the parameters here? So you self diagnose And I think as. And I've certainly found with the work I've done with on one to one coaching that our job is to equip people to, to fish, not just to keep providing fish.

Yeah.

And I think that's the key thing for all leaders. We're trying to transfer knowledge and give them the capacity to do it themselves. So.

And I was as guilty as the next man that when I first asked you about this is oh well, can you just send me your brochure? And you were like, I can send you information but we don't actually have a brochure per se. It's not as you said.

It's. We do have, we do have them but it's, it needs to be. We would recommend. Yeah, it does and I think we would much prefer to have a conversation to say tell us about the issues you have and tell us about what, what's going well and what's where you'd like to improve. And then we'll come back and say look, here's a couple of ideas that you might consider and that could be one to one mentoring. It could be a program for your team. It will vary and I think if it's not tailored then you worry about this vanilla off the shelf. But it's, it might be really interesting but then in two days it's all gone. And that's where training gets a bad name I think because it's a little bit like we all know training doesn't work basically and it's. What's the point of spending money on it if you don't think it works? Yeah, it has to be. It has to be appropriate.

Yeah. And I know that we're going to have links in the partners page to your website as well and you see some of the testimonials, which I think that tells a story. But if people are interested, what should they do to take the next step or explore?

Yeah, so, absolutely. So we will give you our. I'll give you my website and my email and obviously telephone number. We. We have reasonable pushback. So we say if you phone us, we'll get back to you in 24 hours, wherever we are in the world. If you email us, we'll get back to you in 48 hours. Now that's doesn't sound like a very good return, but actually we normally beat it, so it works out okay.

Yes, that's a minimum expectation because you're delivering. You might be delivering a workshop and then at the end of the day, but you know that you're going to get a call back, which is better than some services. So that's the key thing as well.

And all those details would be on your partner stuff.

Yeah, we're going to put that through and the links and stuff like that. Thank you very much, sir. Brilliant as always, and looking forward to seeing you for a beer as well.

Thanks, mate. Cheers.