Revolutionizing Treasury Practices: From Traditional Roles to Technology Integration

Foreign.

To this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession. Going to next. Let's get on with the show. In this week's show, delighted to be joined by Dennis Rice, the global Treasury Director at GameStop. GameStop offers games, entertainment products and technology. There's e commerce properties and stores, but they're not just brick and mortar retailers anymore. But we're going to go back to the beginning of his career, how Dennis first ever started in treasury and obviously it's taken him right the way around the world. And this is one of the things I want to explore all the way from Brazil and everything else. So, Dennis, if you would take us back to the beginning of your story, how you then discovered finance and then moved into Treasury. Over to you, sir.

Hi, Mike, thank you. Been an honor to be part of your show here. Thanks for having me. I started my career back in Sao Paulo, Brazil, Straight out of college, I joined Whirlpool Corporation. I joined the Treasury Department team there. I was mainly working with the risk management insurance team there. Immediately got fascinated about risk management treasury and I already could picture myself as becoming an executive of the company and working for a multinational organization, which was part of one of my dreams here. When I was going through college, I was always very eager to learn and cures and how to learn about different areas of the organization. And obviously I had a great, I think, manager within treasury at that time and he was really a mentor for life for me. So that helped me a lot.

And then when you did this though, you started in Brazil, didn't you? So this is Latin America, because I think that's where you're from. But what was it like there and how did it compare to the rest of your career through the US and stuff? What was, what was that like? How was it structured?

Sure, yeah. So we were, you know, being in Sao Paulo was the kind of the headquarters of the Latin American region for Whirlpool. Obviously everything that we did within treasury and Risk Management was following some of the global programs that Whirlpool had globally. Brazil, I think, was a very important part of the business for Whirlpool, leading market share and within the Latin America region in treasury, obviously it was more focused on cash management, insurance and more of the operations aspect. Back in 2005, 2006, Whirlpool acquired Maytag and they were going to this Major integration project process there. That was when an opportunity came up here in Bento Harbor, Michigan as part of their global treasury team within Risk Management still. And they reached out to me if I wanted to be part of as an expatriate come to the U.S. i didn't think one bit. I was like, yes, I would love to come and learn. And I knew that, you know, a lot of the exciting things was happening at corporate level, so didn't think twice. I moved back in 2006. That's when I came as an expatriate to Penthel Harbor, Michigan. My first two years I was helping with the integration about the merger with Maytag. During that process, even though I was doing risk management insurance, I would always offer myself to help with doing the quarterly financial close process. You know, I would be part of helping with their working capital, dashboards, metrics, anything they need help with, I would be around and help them and trying to learn other things within the company. On the third year they would ask you to rotate and move to a different area as part of your development program. That's when I went and I moved to an FP and a budgeting and forecasting role within the North American region. It was a very good opportunity for me to learn and expose me to accounting and finance. I had a very good experiences of going through the budgeting and forecasting planning exercise. That was especially back in 2008 during the financial crisis. A lot of budget cutting and a lot of things that I think the US was going through and being part of that process. A little bit of stress involved there obviously, but it was very good experience for me to learn and be part of that initiative and help the company, you know, right size and go through that financial situation that we all went through during that whole process. I clearly didn't developed a lot of different ties within the controllers, teams and other areas of the organization. I told them that my desire was still to stay in the United States, not necessarily go back to Brazil where was my home country. Because I felt like that's where the action was. You know, I wanted to be part of that corporate still think I still had unfinished business, especially in Treasury. I expressed my desire. Fortunately I was able to stay there, continue to still work within FB and a budgeting and forecasting. But I also feel that that was a great experience for me to learn that. My passion was with Treasury. Even though I learned about accounting, finance and treasury was really where my heart was and always kept very close ties with the treasurer at that time. With, with the treasury team, Whirlpool itself.

Can you just. At that time, I know it's been through transition with the Maytag and I was just seeing crumbs. Some of the people listening, they're going Whirlpool. What was the breadth of the products you guys did? Or bring that to life, if you would.

Yeah, absolutely. So Whirlpool still, I think they're one of the largest, if not the largest, home appliance manufacturer. They do washers, dryers, refrigeration. They have the whole cooking. KitchenAid is one of their premier brands about, you know, stand mixers and countertop appliances. So massive exposure worldwide with manufacturing plants across the globe in U.S. europe, Asia and Latin America. Brazil, that was, you know, I think at that time there were very, very large organization. 18, 19 billion. I think they're probably even larger now.

But.

And again, being part of that corporate experience was fascinating to me. I still was in FB and A, but I really learned that my heart was settled in treasury and wanted to go back.

So why was treasury over FP and A? I know why. Because I do a Treasury podcast every single week for two, 200 plus weeks because I love it and the way that you guys are focused on the future and all the exciting things you do. But that's from my, you know, sitting here, this chair. What. Why did you get. Yeah, Treasuries.

To me, I felt like, forgive me all my FPA and accounting friends, but it's. Treasury is a lot more than transaction and recording things. And I think we from a Treasury in sync every day with the markets, really. I think we see at first glance everything that happens, you know, whether there's volatility in the currency, commodities, where inflation, you know, investments are changing your balance sheet. So I feel that treasury, we have a very good pulse to the business. And I even say this to my team, don't underestimate any of our roles here because every penny that comes into the door for a balance sheet and goes out touches our hands and we have the opportunity to make a difference and interpret that and see what's happening with the market and help the company make the right decisions. So I felt that way. I feel this way about Treasury. That's why I love it. So again then I was trying to go back to Treasury. I remember like another fun fact when I made the decision to stay in the United States through that mortgage crisis. Brazil, China, remember India, they were like skyrocketing and they were booming. It was kind of completely different ship worldwide and everyone we even questioning my friends and family questioning my decision, like, oh, you're sure? Say, I felt in my heart that they were unfinished business here. That's when an opportunity came within the procurement finance organization within Whirlpool. Again, going back to being a manufacturer of appliances, a lot of exposure to raw materials. They had a very robust commodity hedging program. So I was offered this role to go and help within the organization to assist with their commodity hedging program. That's when Micah told that I really learned about financial risk management and that gave me an opportunity to learn about hedge accounting and market changes. You know, a lot of things. How even being part of the procurement organization at that time, really understand the contracting, the negotiation part, but also how to ensure that we can secure and manage the risk from balance sheet perspective for an organization worldwide. Right. So that was also very, very interesting. Soon I was offered a position to kind of formally go back to treasury where I was not only doing the commodity hedging trading program, but also started. I was involved and I had a team, one person working in my team. And we were in response for the cash task for Whirlpool for the North American region. That's when I got immediately involved with liquidity management, funding the company executing on intercompany loans, bank relationships management, commercial paper program that Whirlpool had it at that time. And it was great. They opened a lot of different doors for me within treasury. And they also had a Treasury workstation at that time which was a little bit still something very new within, I think Treasury. So I was really happy and learning a lot more about Treasury. I was like in heaven, however, and this is, I think part of being part of that big organization where they promote a lot of growth and whatnot. I was told that I was going to. There were going to be some changes within the Treasury Department and I was going to most likely be moved to a different role other than Treasury. And that was. Made me a little like, oh, that's. I'm really enjoying this, what I'm doing.

Taking you away from it.

Right, right. So but those coincidence about life, you know, because my wife, which also worked for Whirlpool in the different department, she. She doesn't do finance or Treasury. She had a receipt job offer with relocation to come to New Jersey.

Oh, wow.

And that was when we sat down say, oh, maybe this is the sign as the opportunity for me to maybe look for different things within Treasury. And then I scratched my head and I thought to myself, if we move to the east coast, New York area and I don't find a job within Treasury, I probably need to change my career, you know, I need to find something. Before we even moved, fortunately, I was offered a position to work for a consulting firm, cit. Now they're owned by First Citizen Bank, I believe but you know, they were doing a massive reengineering or replanning of the entire treasury team.

And that is who was cit? Just again for the audience, cit.

They were at that time they were had the two arms, one was their banking part and they also had financial lending business. They pretty much finance, provide financing, accounts receivables, factoring and looking back at that.

Time and looking you'd been corporate for 13, 14 years. What was it like for you to step into that sort of banking liquidity type role? Quite, quite a shift to you, I would say.

Would that be one that was actually. That's a great point, Mike. It was a quite a shift. I came from this very traditional manufacturing midwest company, very strong. Then I was all of a sudden in front of this very different, very fast dynamic financial services company where all different type of products that I didn't even. And it was a very big change of learning, you know, and putting your best foot forward and addressing any questions. I think it was a great time for me to really learn completely a new industry.

Then you made that move from finance services to then that citizen to Procyte. Can you explain about them or then the progression? Because was that exactly the same or was it different?

What was the key?

I then came up for this very fast growing privately held insurance organization to lead their treasury teams. They were growing and putting the infrastructure together. Nowhere to hide, had to roll up my sleeves and really learn. It was also I think a fascinating opportunity for me and I felt like, okay, maybe that's a place where I can make a huge difference here.

Well, tell me about insurance because I've. I've recruited senior people for insurance companies. I've recruited for both an insurance group where it's about household policies, about houses and various other bits. And then I've also recruited the life insurance companies where it's very different. Did you have that or what was it like? Particularly pro site?

Absolutely. So I think the CIT experience kind of helped me lead the way. But insurance very regulated, very like to your point, I mean there's a lot of things when you're dealing with insurance and the risk or the claims that you probably going to face throughout a specific year, they can come up out of the blue Obviously coming to a different balance sheet structure.

Right.

Very cash rich, balance sheet heavy. And this is where I think obviously and helped me in my career to get exposed more to the capital market investment. Right. For every dollar that comes in, how are you gonna first put that money to work as soon as possible? That actually was very fascinating. I I really also liked the fact that I moved to a large infrastructure organization to a very lean. That's when I think I became to learn how to really multitask. And from releasing wires to really speaking with the CFO and CEO about what's the vision about the department and how we're going to. There's different projects and products that they're thinking about launching next year and how we going to support that. That's kind of where I think learning. And again as I mentioned the investment part of the capital markets really detail how those interest rate moves affect directly your business and how cash flow forecasting being a little bit challenged. But how you put that money to work and maximize your return as much as possible.

And Dennis, how do you protect against those bumps in the road in a right way? Good thing is because you've had that depth of corporate treasury experience and now you're in insurance treasury. How do you see them as differently?

Right.

Do you see it in a similar way or what? How would you contrast it? Again, this is for the listeners out there particularly more junior stage and thinking oh I've got been offered. We've recently recruited a couple of people from corporates and into insurance groups and we've had to explain that to them. How would you characterize it?

I feel like that's where again and I've been fortunate enough earlier in my career when I was there doing hedging and financial risking. That's I think your risk management. I think that needs to be put on and really think about how to really develop a strategy where first learning the risk appetite from I think the stakeholders, the company and the board and really determining trying to okay, I always like to slice in two segments. When you're doing risk management or financial risk management about okay, what is that chunk of your policy or your program that you want to be very conservative, very like not be very crazy about it. Let's you know, make sure that you have some certain protections around. You're probably not going to get the best out of it. Right. You're not gonna get the highest. But then you. You define that other part of it to really go a little bit crazy and really try to be a little bit more sophisticated. But then there could be or downsides. Right. So and trying to be very pragmatic about it the conversations and really unlearning the about the appetite especially I think for us especially when you're in those type of roles and working for companies that have a huge exposure or even in our personal lives. Right. We sometimes say things but it doesn't really transpire to exactly how we perceive risk or our appetite for risk is so that's. I think it's very important for you to spend time and really define your policies and your you know, strategy and put it in a piece of paper as black and white as possible and share with the company and everyone because you know things change, it will change. Right. We know the market change is crazy so and to your point you can be a traditional treasury professional working into very like robust different companies and products but I think when you go to the financial services insurance company is regulated and very prone to risk. You know it could be dramatically by interest rate changes, volatility. I think it changed a little bit the profile, the risk profile of the organization and you need to I think to adapt.

Then you've still got a couple more moves. So talk us through.

Yeah yeah. So then I was at pro site doing there I was there for almost five years, four and a half years doing I think the company double in size. While I was there grew the team but then through my network I became a good friend of mine actually told me about this opportunity at a retail children's Place that they were looking for someone to step in and help with their going through treasury workstation implementation. Few changes within the organization. I felt that was a perfect opportunity for me to get back to the public company environment with exposure to US and Canada at that time for Children's Place I felt it was the right move for me and I don't regret one bit. It was fascinating changing industry. I loved learning new things and that's when I moved to Children's Place. Children's Place was retail and Children's Place was moving trying to really develop their E Comm platform more on the getting rid for the brick and mortar type of infrastructure to move more to the E Comm and there was no joke. They were right on until this day is like my role at GameStop Retail. It's I tell everyone it's a fascinating world, very dynamic especially now how information flows so quickly now and how changes need to happen for you to win at the marketplace. Right. It was a great experience for me. It was there then Covid hit And we know, right Covid, obviously we had to make some very tough decisions there. It was cash flow forecasting became a very, very critical part of the business there. Making sure we pretty much had to change the whole process into more survival mode and very tough decisions had to be made. And during COVID you know, just navigating through revisiting all our where that capital structure again, very, very stressful. Very looking back now actually I don't regret one bit but it was very challenging. But then, you know, throughout this whole kind of coming out of COVID and whatnot, I was presented this opportunity at GameStop GameStop it was probably, it is almost three times larger than Children's Place with we have a huge presence in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and US and I think learning and meeting with the GameStop folks and understanding what the company was going through and kind of treasury was no different.

I touched on GameStop obviously GameStop without, you know, going too much into detail. It's been through, you know, well, headline press at one stage and you've gone in there and you know, been part of that or lived through it. What's it been like for you since you came on a joint? Because you know, I was going to talk about more about the fact that we're in a new world where you've got stuff like, you know, crypto coming out at you, you've got NFTs, you've got everything. What's it been like for you getting your head around all that stuff?

Yeah, no, it's been great. I've never worked for a company where I say like I'm with GameStop and everybody's like, wow. Yeah, I know, I know Games like, it's been interesting that everywhere I go and once, once people realize I work for GameStop, everybody knows exactly who we are and what we've been doing. But you're right, I think the management team and we've been very thoughtful about it and we don't let all this momentum or dist, if you will, impact on our day to day. We have a very specific mission and we have a strategy we're going after. I know that sometimes given everything that's happening, it doesn't become sometimes very public known that how things are. But I think we've been putting our best foot forward and right decisions have been. We're still continuing making the right decisions. You also mentioned about the crypto nft. This is also an era that's. I didn't even know about it until I joined the company and developing that Marketplace and going through all the changes that are happening on a daily basis and managing wallets and understanding the risk aspect to that, you know, what kind of exposure are we going to have, how we manage that program that we're developing and how has that to do with our existing policy? How does that match to our risk profile, as I mentioned earlier? So it's been really fascinating and looking.

You've got so much in your background, it's great. It's like Treasury, Treasury. Where do you see treasury going to next? Obviously we've been through challenging times, you know, came through Covid and now it came out and then just as we were getting our breath back, obviously global events happened which have thrown a lot of challenges. We've got inflationary risks, we've got, you know, salaries taking off. We're doing that just on our latest salary survey, which has really shown that. What are you though, as a treasurer looking at or as a finance leader in some ways more? Is it your team development? Is it all the other things that are coming at you? What are the key things you're focusing on?

Yeah, I feel that, you know, with technology and the way the pace the world now evolves, you know, it's no different than Treasury. I think as I try to look back, we would always try to understand from our cash flows and what was happening with our industry or cash and whatnot. You always try to look back and it's right now it has to be we from a Treasury perspective and we need to know right on the spot, like every day, where's our cash, what happened last week and developing that infrastructure around which I feel like with the advancing technology, with the new Treasure workstations around, that the new technology that banks are providing, that I think is key to learn. But also as you mentioned, a very important part aspect about the people development, right, the young talent that's coming in, how to have them not only learn about the technical aspects about treasury, but also how to use technology towards your advantage. And it's not more technology on the aspects or I need a support from my IT team or I need a special consultant to know you. How do you. You know, oftentimes we're going through a massive implementation now, but you as a Treasury analyst, how can you learn how to program the system, maybe make changes and create that cash flow statement we need now with the balances that came last night, you know, how can you roll up your sleeves and really be resourceful from that standpoint? So I see that treasury, it's the pace is very different right now for you to be, I think, very successful as a treasurer, I think you need to have the pose on your cash flows, your working capital. And that requires you really knows how the business is operating. What's the technology available to get you to have that information ready for you to analyze. And also obviously having the treasury background or the skillset to really help you make the right decisions.

And how do you encourage that with your junior team members? I'm really interested in this piece. How do you, how do you, as a treasurer, you know, you've got all these challenges for you and the team. How do you manage that? Coach them? How do you do it?

Yeah, I think also trying to obviously challenge this status quo. Again, trying to be resourceful, as I've mentioned, learning. Okay, if we're supposed to, and I'll give you examples that we're, we're going through right now, okay. We are feeding all this bank information through our system and this supposed to create some cash posting entries. And also we're trying to leverage that to really understand how's our working capital metrics going and if there's issues through that process, instead of you like, oh, I need to get it involved, I need accounting to help me like, no, how can you be ahead of the curve here, really understand how the programming of that information is working. And maybe you. Because what you know exactly how the trend has been, oh, this information used to go this way and because the bank changed something and now it's causing us to have a different output of the data, step through it, you know, encouraging them to, I think, not only learn the technical aspect of their job, but also from a technology and from even an accounting aspect, you know, really to how to be prepared and really.

Have that question that as well. We're going to put your LinkedIn details in the show notes Dennis. So I know that it's lots of people going to want to connect to you. Would you, if you like, wrap up today's show for me and just go through. We touched on a little bit there about coaching the team and everything else, but what takeaways would you give for anyone listening today?

I feel like for you to be successful, you always have to be curious, eager to learn, address the elephant in the room if there's one. You know, don't be shy or encourage you to write, ask the right questions at all times. And as I said, you know, I think being part of the treasury team organization, we have the privilege to really understand how the business is doing sooner than a lot of folks in the business. So don't be afraid of asking the questions and learning and being curious about it. I think treasury has a great community. There's a lot of mentors around there. And then be involved as much as possible.

Stay curious. And that's so many times, but I really think it resonates every time.

Thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciate the time and really, really honored to be here.

Pleasure. Thanks very much. So I'm rejoined by Dennis Moraes. Dennis, when I last spoke to him, he was with GameStop. But now we're catching up a year or so later. And any of you have just listened to the original podcast, you got some great value there. But actually we're bringing Dennis's story up today. Dennis, what's happened since we last caught up? Over to you, sir.

Hi, Mike, thanks again for having me here. This is fantastic podcast that. I love to be part of it. So thanks for having me. So yes, little bit has changed. I now work for Valvoline. I joined as an assistant treasurer for Valvoline. When we last spoke, I was at GameStop and it's been a little over a year. It's been a great transition for me. It's still within retail. Valvoline went through a separation from a global product business to heavily invest on retail. So Valvoline is expanding, opening stores almost every day and kind of with a lot of more emphasis in retail. And I think that's where I think my experience within treasury and retail has been key and a great opportunity for me to, you know, contribute and add some value here for Valvoline. We implemented.

Hannah, actually before I'm going to jump in there, I'm going to say so you and I both know Valvoline. Oh, I know it. I knew it more as an oil brand, but as you said, it sort of moved more to retail. Can you explain why or what that's in this about vehicle maintenance and all the other things? Explain who the company is now or what they are now?

Absolutely. So we are the leader, prevented maintenance. I think retail, quick Lube oil. I think retail, you know, business where the. So Valvoline was separated. We sold the global product to Aranco, which is what you see like the oil that you buy at the, at the Walmart or the stores. And then we are now pretty much opening the retail, the preventive maintenance stores where you can go have a 15 minute, 15 oil change. Oil change. And we check your, your wiper, blades, everything, cabin, air filter, anything that your vehicle may, may require. So with that separation, obviously you Know we had to create a pretty much a new standalone business and that's kind of the journey which has been we have about 2,000 stores, it's mainly US and Canada and you're half corporate owned and half franchisee, so. So it's, you know, a mixture, mixture.

Of retail and things like that. Yeah. And as you said, you were just touching on there that you came in with this retail background but they were doing also treasury transformation with SAP and everything else. Talk us through that.

Absolutely. So I think with that separation there and again creating a pretty much a standalone business, one of the things was we had a shared ERP system which was SAP ECC in the past. But we had to go and decided to have our own standalone ERP where we've since implemented S4 HANA and we're pretty much kind of creating, redesigning the entire process. The company is going through this massive transformation obviously from being a product manufacturing, chemical business to a pure retail where you know, we're serving our customers, we are providing, you know, services and also managing stores, fleet of stores and whatnot. So with that, you know, a lot of the processes have been designed even I would say the mindset of the team and the culture, it being changing more from our retail focus.

And what do you mean by that? You say it's changed in treasury terms. You know, what was it like before that you were a big chemicals company and oil and things like that and now it's more retail focus. How has that shifted?

Yeah, sure. So I think if you think about even from our cash flow, cash flow cycle right before I think it was more like a traditional. You would sell your product, you would Invoice, collect within 30, 60 days and you know, you would be more. That was the majority how the whole revenue generation was coming from. Now we're literally on the day to day stores. We are, you know, like for instance, and this is as a matter of fact one of the, one of the areas that we're investing a lot and improving it's merchant service processing.

Right.

That's a key. Now our revenue stream, even how we are not direct to consumer, basically we're a lot more business to business now we're selling direct to consumer. So giving the support to the stores, you know, from a day to day and the whole again as I mentioned, the cash flow cycle and how we're managing our business.

And obviously you've done this separation Dennis, from you know, and you've carved yourselves out which has led to lots of unobs. As we were talking about capital Markets. That's been key to you guys. A lot of treasury professionals. Oh, I should do something. You've really been deep diving that. What's that been like?

Yeah, it's been a unique opportunity for me because with the separation and, and the way our debt covenants were, we had to complete a tender offer in our bond which we, again with the separation, we collected proceeds which I, at one point, when I first started, where we had an investment pool of cash that I was managing and then we had to, you know, at one point do a tender offer on the bond where then we had to pay off the bond and kind of restructure our whole capital strategy and with that also allow us with the proceeds to, you know, go back in the market and we have a share repurchase program that also valuing, took advantage of with the proceeds. There was a very great, you know, experience opportunity for me as part of this. He's no. This new reshape of the capital structure for following.

And I know that when I've spoken to other treasury professionals, they're always, I need to be doing some dc, I need to do debt capital markets. I've actually said to them, I think it's a good, a very good to have, very nice to have. But it's not essential, is it? Because you can learn it. You, you've demonstrated that, you know, what's it been like for you to learn all that stuff?

Yeah, it's been great. Well, I have a great treasure that I work for. He's someone that knows a lot about it and it's been great for me to learn and participate and, you know, he's been a good mentor for me. But I agree with you. It's not like I must have, but it's nice to have. And again, having the privilege of having someone that knows what they're doing and just connecting the dots has been key for me.

Yeah, they can roll it out straight away.

Yeah.

And I was just joking with Dennis. You and I were, you know, I actually wrote some questions. I said it's quite unusual but, you know, I reflected back on the previous episode and now you've shifted, as I say, from GameStop to here. Obviously, you know, retail, Treasury. Where do you think treasury can make a real impact? You know, you, you really made an impact with treasury at GameStop. Now you're a Valvoline. Where can it make a difference? Surely it's just treasury and you say collect the cash. Thanks very much.

Yeah, I think when, when you're a retail. I think retail for you to be successful and profitable, a lot of things come into play. You have to be very nimble, very, you know, dynamic and, and cost. Your cost structure needs to be managed very well. And I think that's where treasury comes in. You know, as far as, you know, the areas that treasury manage now and I've managed a gamestop and I'm managing here again, the banking structure, your bank fees becomes an important part of your bottom line and how you are managing all your stores or you tend to have a lot more bank account, bank relationships to support your thousands of thousands of stores, you know, across the country or even across the globe. I think also as I touched a little bit, merchant services, right. Credit card, if you think about 90% of our revenue is collected by our, you know, this day and age, you know, everyone paying via credit card, debit card. So that's a, an area that has, tend to have a lot of opportunities, you know, as far as managing your cost and also providing value to our customers, making sure that the payment, the form of payments and the things that you offering, which is directly tied to your business strategy, you know, are aligned. So again, I think those are the areas that treasury can have a huge impact directly right there at the bottom line, directly with the customer. But obviously there's a lot of other things behind the scenes that typically we.

Do and it's an interesting one. Surely it's straight through processing. You know, it's easy, isn't it? You know, you, they tap the money and you just collect. It goes in the bank account. I'm, I'm saying this obviously tongue in cheek, but if someone is listening today, what are the problems or the, what's the word? You know, what are the, the challenges that you see from this cash processing and the other Treasuries might have and how have you approached some of them?

Yeah, so I, I feel we tend to think, and I think as a consumer, and especially someone that's not within tragedy or finance, it's very uniform. You go to any store, you go any business, you swipe your car and the transaction is completed. Yes. But behind the scene things can change dramatically. And to use again Valvoline as an example, we have a proprietary point of sale system. So when you come to our store, we will scan your VIN number, you're going to come in so we can check the, your vehicle maintenance schedule. What do you need? And we ask our customer, right, what you came there to work for. But then you check, oh, is it due for you to, you know, do X, Y, And Z. So we have, I guess what I'm trying to say we have this preparatory system is developed to make sure we serve our customer and provide the best quality. But with that it changes completely how we are integrating with in this case S4 or even integrating with the payment processor providers. Right. Which is very different and unique than how we used to have it at GameStop which it was very unique from even when we had at a children's place before. So there's a lot of intuit like to give you another unique example for valing we have a lot of fleet management accounts that represent a percentage of our business. We have to accept fleet cards, you know, which is very different than the regular traditional credit card. So those are the things again that you have to take the time to understand, you know and make it, you know what, what, what's to make sure that we are optimizing and we're offering again at the end of the day to our customers what they need and also what will be, you know, make sense to our product structure and our bottom line.

And I don't want to deep dive on that too much. I wanted to also get the most from yourself. You I know that when we spoke you, you love coaching team members and we were then just talking so Albalena actually based in down in Lexington, Kentucky I think you said and then you travel down but you're actually based in New York. And then we were talking about you working, you know, one in four to six weeks you're down there and stuff. What's it like when you're, you know, when you are, you know, give us an. If you explain your work schedule, if you would and then how you get the best out of your team.

Sure. So I think since I joined we've grown our treasury team quite a bit. We do, we're so right now just to give a very quick rundown, we have capital markets that we do. We manage our bonds or that, you know, our revolver. We do our cash flow forecasting. But also there's the cash management component, the merchant processor services and whatnot. But we also have been. I have a team that manages a cash application and some of bank account reconciliation and some other things with that we've been able to. And again with the transition we will be able to expand the role and hire new folks and make sure that we were with the right resources to absorb and continue with this growth trajectory here for raveling. So having said that having a team that when I joined doubled in size, I tried to be there as much as possible. I do work fully remote. I try to be, but I try to be present as much as possible. So every, I would say every six weeks I travel to Lexington, Kentucky and when I'm there, we try to, you know, make sure that we spend time with the team, with my internal, external stakeholders, not only treasury, but obviously with the entire finance team with the business. Try to make sure that I align meetings with our financial partners if needed. You know, make sure that, you know, if we have bank meetings, if we have any things that we're doing, projects that we're working on, try to align. And I think that works very well. We do have a hybrid. Valvoline, I think, has been very successful in implementing the hybrid work schedule. And when I'm there, luckily, you know, we coordinate that everybody's in the office as well. So it's been working. So far so good. You know, I know that at GameStop I was also working remote. Yeah, the whole company was, was remote. Especially in the heels of COVID I have to say that things change a little bit as people start to naturally go into a hybrid or back to the office. It's very different if you, if everyone is remote or you are the one being only remote. But I think there's ways that you can, you know, work around. I try to be there when I'm there. I try to be meeting with everyone as much as possible, try to be as present as possible. And even if I'm remote, I try to participate via camera as much as I can.

And how do you effectively manage that? Because it's great that you are there in person every four to six weeks and seeing people and everything else. But you know, if you are remote and you're managing someone, any tips for other people, things that you've seen that have been very effective, you know, is it regular communication or is it, what is it the cadence of, you know, talking to people or what is it?

Yeah, I think cadence is key. I try to, you know, with my direct reports every week, you know, I tell them we need, we must meet. Even if it's going to be maybe 90% work related, 10% chitchat or some weeks we're going to do 90% chitchat, 10% work related. Yeah, I think you need to continue with that, you know, connect, connection. And another thing that I've been trying to be a little bit more personal, purposeful with and I know at first started to be a little, to be on camera, you know, because I think when you're remote and when you're doing teams meeting. It's very easy to multitask and you know, email starts to bubble up and messages. So try to be. At least avoid that even for my own benefit. Not only for my team's benefit as well to being purposeful and being camera. I think it helps a lot to make sure like aiy as much as we can. But I think you, you, you.

You hit.

You said it well. I think the cadence is important and I try to put it a. A structure where you know those cliche things, right. Can you send me a list what you're working on? I think by that it makes people stop and think because I try to do that myself. Right. Let me create a. What did I like? Friday is a good example. Let me create a list what things are going on now for the week. What have I done? Right? And then oftentimes they go like, yeah, I haven't touched on this and I am. I was supposed to or you know, spending too much time on that versus So I try to push it down with the team as well.

I think you. I think we skipped past a really major point there where you took also, which I think you brought up very well, was about being present. You know, as you say, if. And I think this. I know that with some of my colleagues and stuff like that. If you're just on the phone call and it's a phone conference, but it's on zoom. But you all have your camera switched off. You can be. You can be 30 present, you're listening in, but you're not actually doing it. The other day I talked to a client and they were. It's funny, they said, oh. I said, yeah, sorry about the background noise. I'm on a team meeting. And I was like, are you actually on. Oh, yeah, I'm. I'm mostly leading it. I was like, well, it doesn't sound like it because you're talking to me, mate. I'm like, it was a bit actually being present. I think also it's a. I wouldn't say it's disrespectful, but I think it's actually not giving of yourself, would you say?

I 100% agree. And again, I think we all of us experience a very chaotic change of flows with COVID and how things turned. And I think we all have to admit that we tended to during those times and learning how to operate in this environment, we were trying to multitask and do things and. And I've been in situations where even like I would be listening to your. Your podcast But I'm also.

Dennis is the only thing to be listening to. Please.

Exactly. But then you're doing, doing something else, you know, or, or even with, you know, you listen to a bank call about and then you're doing three other things. And, and I've been trying to. This is something I'm taking personally. Like okay, no, if I'm doing this because I need to take something out of it, if I'm choosing to have that time dedicated to this.

Yeah.

How can I really make the best and the most out of it?

So. Yeah. And choose to be there.

Yes, yes. And it's difficult, I'll tell you.

But we're gonna, we're gonna wrap up the call because you've been very kind to give me this time again. But looking ahead, obviously challenging markets, a lot of the markets are all over the place and things. I know that you know. And again, going through my questions, looking at the future, everyone's, you know, obviously everyone's talking about AI, automation, stuff like that. But less of that. More. What do you see as the, the next challenges coming up for treasury in the next, you know, two to five years or even. Not even that. But yeah, next two years, what do you see coming along?

Yeah.

I think again you mentioned AI, the technology. I think the speed of information keeps just getting growing, getting faster and faster. Right. If you think about. I remember and I may have, you know, said on the earlier podcast, but before, you know, you would create a cash flow forecast or a cash position. It could take you weeks to give your, your, your liquidity position to management or, or you have a lot of transactional data that you had some time now we don't have the leisure to have. It has to be quick. I. You need that information right now for things that are happening now, not what happened last week. And that's where technology enablement, it's key part of this. Right. How you can merge technology, AI, whatever the case is, but to something that will be meaningful and purpose for your role. This is. These are the challenges again we, we're implementing S4. We have implemented but we're. There's a list to a lot of work to be done and as I mentioned some of the areas that I am managing which are more transactional driven areas. Cash application, cash posting. How do you really use leverage that technology, that machine learning to. But also I think it's training the new team and the new workforce. Right now you need to be focused more on the technical, definitely on the strategic. How do you get all this data that's available and make a good use out of it. So I think these are the things that it's a little bit of a change in the mindset. And then you have the new young generation, the new workforce coming in that learn very differently than how we've learned in the past. We used to be learning just by reading books and sitting in the classroom. The new generation learns very different. They're like it's a lot more interactive and how to adapt that to be a good that you mentioned like coaching and helping the growth of the team. So those are the challenges, I think again, how to get all this technology, AI everything and put it into work in a meaningful way for us as treasury professionals.

So you gave some good takeaways before, but again, once again we'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes, final takeaways for today. If someone's out there, you know, we get regular listeners obviously like your good self, which is great. And you've heard people giving takeaways. Any reflections you've made this recent move, you know, it's been a positive thing or you know, what are the for the listeners today? What should they be thinking about, if you like.

I learned a lot in the last few years and even like changing jobs, been trying to again be more patient about things. I think the world moves in a very fast pace. The industry, it moves in a very fast pace and we tend to jump on that bandwagon and try to, you know, just move as fast as we can and but I'm being, trying to take more time to, you know, grow and understand and be patient about it like in my role right now, evolving how to really understand the business, the company, the strategy, how to make really make a difference not only in treasury but also overall on the organization. So again, just being, trying to be more purposeful as we're talking about the participation in meetings, the participation in everything. Just trying to be more intent with everything that I do and what I'm going to be doing my career. I think information is out there for everyone. I think everyone can be as an expert as you are. But I think if you're in that good, if you're intentional about things and you understand that's where I think you're going to make the difference these days, you know, and the participation and, and, and, and interacting with people, I think that's still what going to make a difference going forward.

Well, that's the key to treasury, isn't it? So yes. So Dennis, thank you very much. Looking forward to seeing you in person. I know we're doing virtually, but actually, you know, shaking your hand, having a beer or two and seeing very soon. Thank you very much, sir.

Thanks for having me. Pleasure.

I hope you enjoyed this week's episode just as much as I did, recording it with another amazing guest. And feel free to sign up through wherever you get your podcast through Spotify, Apple podcast, wherever it is, and keep on listening. Thank you very much for your support. Now, before we move on, I wanted to let you know how you stay ahead in the treasury world. So you'll see in our Shop Show Notes how you can sign up for our Treasury Recruitment newsletter. It'll give you immediate access to our 2025 Treasury Salary Trends white paper. In there, we've got assessment of things coming from the salary survey, but we actually go back over the past 20 years. We look at some of the insights there. We then also can give you some strategic career advice. We give you bonuses like access to CV and resume templates, things to basically help you with your treasury career career. If you go there, we'll put it in the show notes, but it's. You go to our newsletter on our website as well as the newsletter you might be looking for your next role. If you are. Well, that's what we do and we do it best. So reach out to us if you want to. For the US roles, you go to joe@treasuryrecruitment.com For European roles you go to Katie treasuryrecruitment.com the UK and more senior positions, come to me Mike at Treasury recruitment recruitment.com or go to the website Treasure recruitment.com Feel free to connect with us in person. We're going to be doing a number of upcoming events and conferences throughout 2025. Got more news coming your way about. Yeah, some exciting plans we've got as well, so give us a call, drop us an email. Thanks for your support. We'll see you at the next event. Until next week, anything.