Structuring High-Performing Treasury Teams with Marriann Bullard

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession. Going to next this week's show, I'm joined by Marianne Bullard, the former assistant treasurer and Senior Director of Treasury at Academy Sports and Outdoors. Marianne has a sort of rich history of Treasury. You know, she's seen it right the way through her last role, Academy Sports and Outdoors, for those of you who don't know, perhaps across Europe and things. They're an American sports goods discount store chain, corporate offices based in Texas, but Many, many years, 74 years privately held. Again, I'll get Marianne to explain a little bit more, but massive, massive group. Yeah. Why should I talk? Let's, let's let the lady who does a much better job chat about her treasury career get on onto the show. Perhaps could you take us back to the very beginning when you first came into Treasury? I know we had a pre chat a few days ago about this show and things. How did you first ever discover firstly finance and then you got your start in treasury and, and then you've seen it go for many years, which I think is fascinating how it's developed. So take us right back to the very beginning, if you would. It's, it's over to you, it's yours, certainly.

I spent 10 years in accounting and I really got a broad view of the financial areas of a company such as payroll, purchasing, accounts payable, financing, receivable cost and general ledger. All of that contributed to a broad view of some of the areas of finance and companies. At the time I was working for a company that was wanting to go public and they needed a person with a Treasury title. So I was offered the position and mind you, I was offered based on my integrity and my ability to interface well with other departments. Although the idea of being just a bean counter of cash really sounded boring, the substantial salary increase was agreeably a deciding factor in accepting that position. When it started, the treasury was really limited to cash management and simply reporting bank balances. Over time it's grown by leaps and bounds, as you all know. So I'm now very thankful that I started out just reporting cash and giving those cash balances.

And that was with what you call Western Company of North America. What do they.

I was with a company called nser which was an environmental company. When they got bought out, I then moved to Western Company of North America and basically we were keeping cash balances on a ledger paper. That was before we really had computers where we could balance everything. So it was done by pencil every day and then reported to the seniors by typing up a report. So it's very different than it is today.

And then you sort of. And again, for those people listening, you've always been based in and around Texas. So obviously oil and gas is a big part of the industry down there and everything else. So 22 years in that sort of part of oil and gas, what's that been like in treasury terms? Because a lot of international stuff there.

Or in treasury terms and oil and gas. Yes, there is a lot of international cash management. And that was a big advantage for me to be able to learn the ins and outs, primarily in Europe and Asia. And at the time I was able to get that exposure, get some exposure to foreign cash management. And that certainly contributed to the education of learning how the cash is handled across the world instead of just locally or in the United States.

And then talk me through the sort of progressions within your role, you know, because, you know, in those early days you talked about there a ledger, a ledger book and everything else. And people like, you know, perhaps those early days were like ledger books. What are those? You know, you know, describe how you sort of saw it transform over time.

It transformed to basically the computers coming in, learning how to use them and going through the dot matrix printer phase and actually being able to report the balances via computer was much faster. It was more accurate, it was cleaner. And the reporting to management in particular was much earlier in the day. So all the advantages of computers coming in was definitely a contribution. Now, going forward from there, being able to use all of the features, the different programs that handle financial accounting and cash management has just been a huge advantage. And been able to have treasury management contribute across the company and financial analysis and reporting.

As we said, you started a Western company, they were all in gas, is that right?

That was oil and gas, yes.

And then you made the move to Grant Predeco and things, and they were there for a number of years. Assistant treasurers, talk me through those, the progression there sort of thing.

The companies I moved from Western Company of North America, which was bought out, and moved to a company called Weatherford, which in turn spun off Grant PrideCo. It was an affiliate company and I was asked to go with the spin out. That was definitely a highlight in my career because in preparing to take Grand Prideco public and experiencing the pride and seeing it become a major corporation was definitely. And an Advantage most in my role in treasury and monetarily it was a risk, but came out with great rewards.

And within that you, when you did the spin off, was it just you in treasury or how did it sort of. Because I know a big thing about your, your career, if you like, and one of the passions you have is taking walking in blank sheets of paper and growing teams. Describe that sort of process, if you would.

Sure. When I went to the company spinoff, yes. There was already at least one person in treasury that was handling the basic cash management for Grant Prycout. She was definitely a contributor and learning the company at a greater detail. Going and touring the facility. It was actually a piping facility that actually made the drill pipe and her contribution. And me learning the company was definitely an advantage. From there we began to build a department. As the company grew, that was an education and learning that more and more people in the department could take on strategic roles. And then we would hire in cash management and the cash manager was always the beginning position and then you would move up from there.

And when you're doing that and defining positions, if that's the right way to put it, you know, how did you sort of split out those responsibilities? I've heard about it in the past with a couple of my clients where they sort of put all the departmental responsibilities on these cards, the post its, if you like, but bigger than that, but. And they said, right, you'd be really good at that, you'd be really good at that. And they sort of divvied it out, pushed it out to people, you know, did you do it that way or what was the sort of, you know, the way that you organize it? Just much more traditional.

Right.

You're in cash, you're in a foreign exchange, you're this. How did you sort of structure it?

I structured it by the talent that the people had. I realized immediately as we were talking about Grant Pride code, that the person that was there in treasury at the time had great knowledge of the company. She was very strategic in nature of understanding. We had so many different international locations. She knew the people, she knew how they operated, she knew what kind of information we received from them. And as we built our international treasury management module, we were able to, I was able to use her in a strategic role. That left cash management, which as you can imagine with having locations in so many different areas of the world, that cash management would take a certain period of time to get the foreign balances as well as US balances on a daily basis. So we hired A person that had the experience in cash management and she became our cash manager. Then, as we continue to hire people to handle the incoming and the outgoing cash from the international locations, we would look for people that may or may not have international experience, that were good communicators and filled those roles accordingly. The last role that I filled at Grant PrideCo was analytical role, and they were dealing in foreign exchange, they were dealing in hedging, they were doing a lot of analysis and working with the financial. And in that particular position, I looked for someone with a degree that was ready and did have some exposure and was ready and willing to jump in and take it from there. He has since then been very successful and moved forward. And it's always with great pride that I see my past employees able to move forward and take on greater, greater, greater and greater roles in newer companies.

Well, just going back a stage, you know, we. And it seems perhaps for the people that are listening today, they don't understand that, you know, there were wire transfer faxes or, you know, all the different things. When I first started in Treasury Committee, we used to fax people's resumes to clients and you'd call them and say, go and stand by it and I'll send you through. And then, you know, you know, let's not. Email was just coming in, but with, you know, sort of following, looking at the cash, cash settlements and everything else, there's been this speed of, you know, transfer of information. Has it always been a positive, you know, or did you, you know, what I'm saying is within the team and the department there, did you ever follow the sum mentality, which again, for the people listening means that, you know, certain office, you pass the ball across the. Did you have offices around the world and monitor cash like that? Or how did you. How did it run?

You know, it varies with different parts of the world. Some are very progressive. Europe was very progressive. And there are other areas when you get into third world countries that were much slower. We had to receive information by fax or even by phone call to where we were able to record worldwide cash and be able to convert it to US Dollars to see a true liquidity scenario. That started out definitely by fax and phone calls and then progressed to where as the bigger offices received their interface with the main office, then we were able to record cash faster. But it was a very slow process when we first started and had to be extremely diligent in trying to get with the right people at the right time to get our balances.

And then you know, as you say, you sort of were there until sort of nine or ten years ago. You'd seen it progress. What was the, your favorite thing? Maybe you talked there about people, which I know, I know that you enjoyed the mentoring of talent and things like that. Was that your favorite piece about all of it, do you think? Or was it the increase in technology alongside that, what was it? What was your favorite bit?

I can't say. As being a Treasury for so many years, technology has always been a challenge for me. My best thing was hiring people that were smarter than me, especially technologically. But I can definitely tell you that one of my favorite things throughout my career has been to mentor people and to lead employees and focus on their development by company offered courses, making sure that they had distinct goals and objectives, making sure that they were had outside education, membership in organizations that were local, and also having exposure to the company, financial reporting to the press. I believe all that's an advantage in making sure that your employees are well rounded. I've always made sure that we had monthly meetings where individuals were asked to report on recent education courses and conference activity so they would get used to addressing a department and when they were do have exposure in company meetings, they're not shy about making sure when they contribute that they're ready.

And with that, I know that you've been very much involved in some of the organizations, so Houston treasury, tma, Treasury Management Associates, AFP and things like that. What role have you seen? You know, how long have you been involved with those guys?

And you know, and why in 1988, when I took on a role at the beginning of Treasury, I heard about htma, which is Houston Treasury Management Association. I found that as an avenue to be able to get education in the world of Treasury. And I believe that it's a big advantage to join these organizations and get, get yourself immersed in what the current activity and the current technology that's happening. And I can particularly say that with afp, that was even a broader range and the education that I received by attending the conferences and being on an advisory committee for AFP was just a huge advantage and absolutely did advance me in knowledge not only of treasury, but how treasury was exposed to other financial areas and how I could move forward in my career.

And with that. What do you mean? I mean surely the association is just there, they run the conferences and you know, do some courses and things like that. I'm playing doubles advocate there. But you know, why was it so important to you and why should it be to someone listening Today, sorry, a junior person that, well, yeah, I'm really busy, you know, I've got all this other stuff going on, you know, why bother?

I think there's two things. One, the networking with other treasury people, being able to network with someone that's doing, doing this, the same job or something similar to what you're doing. You can share ideas, you can exchange ideas and I believe that that's really important. Secondly, the speakers in sessions, I always made a point to, if I didn't ask questions to go up, introduce myself, make sure that I communicated after the session. You never know when one of the, you're going to cross paths with one of these speakers again, that may help you when you are looking for a job or when you are looking for opportunity, whether locally or you're to relocate. So I believe that those two things were primary contributors to me learning more about treasury and more about the roles across the world.

We talked about that. Then that you sort of made the shift from oil and gas, which very traditional, big area for things down in Houston and you made a very natural step. You know, maybe oil, maybe specialize in gas. Oh no, you move to outdoor sporting goods. So what were the similarities and challenges, if you like, you know, moving, making that quite a shift in industry? Was it totally different, was it totally new treasury stuff or what were you, what were you faced with?

Well, moving from oil and gas to retail was definitely a huge change. Now cash is cash. And so the similarities exist in that there are bank accounts. Most of the time you're going to be with similar banks, the larger banks, as I was working in larger corporations. But it was a challenge because I was not only faced with changing the industry, but also with what is needed for successful retail treasury management. In oil and gas, you're really dealing with numbers that you really don't see the cash. And with retail, you're looking at handling cash in stores. You're looking at what's the most efficient and cost effective retail practices for handling cash in the stores. At the time, Academy needed a lot of advancement and procedures in managing the cash at the stores. And I spent the first four months assessing, okay, what's the contributors to retail Treasury. And at that time I initiated a plan to build treasury and how do I save cost? Because that's the biggest thing. What kind of cost can I save in banking? Armored car cash handling in the stores, how do I do that? I presented the plan to my boss and we prioritize it and with his approval I was able to execute and then report the milestones as I moved.

Along, real fundamental, real cash, not just cash management, cash handling down to sort of as you say. I interviewed the show a while ago, the treasurer Brinks and we talk about cash, you know, we talked about cash to society and various other bits. We joked around that. But you know, this was real. Getting it to and from the store.

That's right. And at the time that I started, 35% of our of our sales were in cash at that time. And so that, that's a fairly big number. And so you're not only looking at that, you're looking at checks, you're looking at credit cards. And then as we moved along, you're looking at advancing from credit card to being able to process your checks electronically and being able to tap and buy and moving through all the technologies. So definitely a challenge not only in the first year of being at Academy, but then moving forward throughout the 10 years.

And then how did it, you know, did you, once you sort of re established or started to advance treasury, did, did you find that sort of involved you in other areas within the group or what was the sort of the integration plan for treasury versus was it very much Treasury? Was Treasury? Go do your stuff over there, look after the cash. William, thanks very much. Or what was the situation there?

No, treasury was new. When I went to Academy, there was actually a person that was doing the bank balances. She really didn't know that she was doing treasury. And I immediately handpicked her out of account to do the cash management so I could work strategically to grow Treasury. But I can tell you, as we moved forward, treasury contributed to so many technology conversations. We contributed to store services, we contributed to inventory control, accounting. So many conversations and so many projects that treasury had a key role because everything's about the stores. Without the stores, we have no Academy, sports and outdoors. And so at the time it was exciting to be able to expand into all the different areas and be able to make our mark and get a seat at the table. When these projects began and how was.

Treasury structured in terms of the team structure? Because what I wanted to sort of. I know that a big passion of yours is a about with individuals, if you like, sort of mentoring them, developing talent and then, you know, getting people to come in and maybe, you know, graduate through the group, as it were, you know, what advice were you giving to those people and how did you.

Coach them, as it were in our treasury department? Yes, indeed, we did start out with cash management. We then moved as the company grew, because it did grow to be a to $2.5 billion corporation. As the company grew, then we specialized areas one in checks and cash. Those people, those people coordinated with the stores. They were all involved in how the cash is handling stores. Then we had another area, the department where they worked on credit cards and all the different card transactions with American Express, Discover, Visa and MasterCard. And then we had another area that we were asked to take on in 2014, and that was, was in sales audit. And sales audit would take the sales from the stores, analyze them, make sure that they were in the right place, audit them on a daily basis, make sure everything got passed over and matched exactly what the cash reports that were coming in from the stores. And progressively as we went, we kept adding different areas of the company as well as expanding the Treasury Department. When I departed in 2018, I was leading a team of 12 employees.

Yeah, it's quite unusual for a Treasury team. Sometimes, you know, if anything, you get smaller and you don't bolt on those. It sounded like you were bolting on more and more responsibilities. Was that right?

Exactly. We definitely were. And it was actually fun to see the department grow and to see the different people that began to excel in areas that I wasn't expecting just because they were given them responsibility.

And with those people, what would you say was key about them that made them. That made them excel in those areas? What were the standout sort of features of those people that, wow, they just got stuck in or they worked longer hours? What was the ethos that you thought that's what makes a standout treasury person?

I had a department of people that had a can do attitude. I believe that our monthly meetings and taking an interest into the different areas helped that can do attitude. We scheduled group lunches. We participated as group and company activities, and we had a beach retreat together each year. And I believe all that contributed to the cohesiveness in the department. I am here to say that when people are happy, and that's in a general sense, that they're happy at work, that they are enjoying their jobs and that they're going to produce at a greater rate. And my job was to make sure that I understood what the issues were within the areas of responsibility, able to capitalize on them and make sure that the employees, in a general sense, were enjoying what they do on a daily basis.

One area we didn't really explore, I know that you, as you say, we Treasury Management association, locally afp. What are your thoughts on qualifications of things? Was that something that you sort of tried to get everyone to do the CTP, which is the U.S. treasury qualification. Was that a big thing for you or did you, you know, were you quite flexible on that? What were your thoughts?

I was very flexible. I do not believe that certifications necessarily show the talent in today's world. I think that certification is a huge plus when you're putting out your resume. When I was looking for people in particular areas, I can tell you that predominantly the department that I managed, I was able to hire these people out of accounting. They saw treasury and particularly in sales audit, it came over as a group. There was four people that came over as a group in other areas. When was looking for people in credit card management, well, that particular part of the responsibilities was handled in accounting. So I was able to interview people and hire them out of accounting. That was always a plus for the employees that I hired as well as a benefit for me because they already knew the company. Now, in hiring from the outside, we did not necessarily stick to. You have to have a degree depending on the position. If it's.