The Current State of The Treasury Recruitment Market with The Treasury Recruitment Co

Foreign.

So, hello, everyone. I would say welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast, where I'm interviewing Treasury professionals. But this week it's a little bit different. You might not know behind the scenes of each and every show that we do, I interview a treasurer. Once we've done it, we send it off to them, they approve it and then they get their boss to approve it and everything else. And we've got here just post summer and we found ourselves with a little bit of an approval shop, if you like, and still getting the approval of lots of CFOs who are just returning from holidays.

So a lot of treasurers are still.

Struggling to get that. So we thought, you know what, we'll do one ourselves. We'll do one from the treasury recruitment company. So I'm going to introduce you today to Simon, who runs our UK desk. We've got Katie run our European desk. I'm going to cover for Craig who runs the us. Actually, I'm going to jump in there, tell you a bit more about the markets there. Firstly, we're going to do a bit of an intro to us, but before we do that, I would just say we would love to have some of you CFOs and treasury professionals out there that listen every week. We get over 300 downloads a week for each episode, but we need more of you, so if you're interested, drop me a line. Mike, treasuryrecruitment.com Be great to have you on the show. Talk about your treasury careers and some of the ups and downs and things and we'd love talking to you guys. I'm going to refresh the show a bit. Got some advice recently from Simon. We said we're going to do a bit of a quick fire answer round at the end and we'll share that with you and I think it'll freshen up the show. But before then, let's give you a bit of background. So I'm Mike Richards. I started the Treasury Recruitment Company 18 plus years ago. Always been in Treasury Recruitment 22 plus years. I know we don't look at day over 12 or 15, but anyway, we recruit at every level on a global basis, from Treasury Assistant to Global Treasurer. We love it. We recruit from the us, uk, Europe, right the way across Asia Pacific. We do stuff in the Middle east at the moment. We do it on every kind of basis of contingent through to retained and that's us. That's all we do. And we love doing it. We, in addition to this, as you know, put out the Treasury Podcast, we do a Treasury salary survey, we do lots and lots. It's all treasury and it's about discovering, as Simon has said, buried treasury. Thought we'd get that one in there, but he can tell you a bit more about that. Enough from me. Let's move over or move around the circle. Simon, let's go to you. Maybe just explain your background. You recently joined the group. Over to you, sir.

Yeah, thanks, Mike. So, yeah, I'm Simon and I've been only with the company for about four weeks actually, so it's all fairly fresh for me. But my background spans around 14 years of recruitment and I've worked on both sides of the coin. So I've worked as an agency recruiter and I've worked as an in house recruiter. So I've seen how things work from both perspectives and my markets have been varied but it was more of a kind of tech focused arena. So I recruited for some big automotive firms and as you probably know that the market's kind of died a bit in terms of automobile industry and people stopped buying new cars and things, so it was time to start afresh. And I think the reason I was excited and wanted to join the treasury recruitment company was first saw Mike. We got on really well and the markets very, very. We have an undiluted candidate base, should we say. So every company will always need a treasurer and it means we're not kind of tied or stuck to one industry. So yeah, the last four weeks have been an eye opener, really interesting. As Mike maybe briefly touched on, we've worked with some very, very big clients in the past. We have dealings with companies like Chanel and Coca Cola and yeah, anything with a corporate treasury function we can help. And my main remit is roles, kind of ranging from treasury analysts through to assistant treasurer, treasury managers and so on a group treasury level. So yeah, that's a bit about me. And I'll pass you across now to my esteemed colleague Katie who runs our European desk.

So some of you have probably spoken to me, if not met me at conferences before, but I'm Katie and I head up the European desk at the treasury recruitment company. My background is quite similar to Simon's. The been within recruitment for about 17 years. That's been a mix of agency, specifically specialist recruitment agencies and a mix of heading up in house recruitment teams as well. I've been with the business for about a year now, very much focusing on the European Treasury Community, looking after roles from treasury assistant through to group treasurer level. I think it's important to sort of mention here that even though we're a UK based business, we do actually recruit people in the local areas as well. So we will put people who live and currently work in Switzerland into roles within Switzerland and the same across sort of Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, France and other key places like that. That's a bit about me, but back to you now, Mike.

Well, thank you very much, guys. I think it's great sort of summary of us. I think we're in an interesting stage in the markets. People are saying to us, you know what's happening in the markets? Well, obviously it was post Covid. I was getting emails and calls on the bank holiday Monday. I think it was 31st of August. Oh, what's happening? I was up. What's bank holiday? Nothing at the moment, but we're a couple of weeks into September so it's already starting to get busier. I know that Simon's been busier on his desk and he can perhaps cover that, but I think in general, let's give a quick overview. I think everyone's recovering. I've seen actually sort of a recovery coming from maybe being led a little bit by Katie's region. With Europe and a number of roles coming through, the UK is then following suit us. Still pretty static, I would say. I think that is affected by Covid and I think it's a new way of working, people getting used to it. But overall we are seeing a recovery from all the markets, but it's going to take time and I think people are asking me, they're saying, oh, Mike, what's the chief competitor for you? Is it this company? Is it this? The main competitor is probably in house recruitment and we could perhaps explore that just briefly throughout the episode, but I'm seeing that when an HR person gets given. Oh, hang on, our treasurer's left or our treasury managers left, their first port of call is LinkedIn and why wouldn't they? They're going to the LinkedIn and actually trying to source candidates direct because they say, oh, it saves us money and everything else. The problem is, I think there's a lot of frustration coming back and we're getting this that you can't just recruit through LinkedIn. Treasury is a specialist area and we're not looking for the 5 or 10% candidates that are actually responding through LinkedIn. Simon and I, when Simon first came on board, I was sort of showing him the database and showing some of the candidates we have there and the people that aren't registered with recruiters, they. Are you guys listening to the show Today, you're the 90, 95% that are passive candidates. You're interested in a job role, you're doing a career enhancing role, which would be great for you and that's why you speak to us, that's why we have conversations. But you're not there on certain competitors websites checking out for jobs every day. You're not doing that. You want career moves and you know that we look after you and I know that Simon's come on board, it's all new and Simon with you and you know, sort of this new market, you were in a different area. What's your first impressions of some of these treasury professionals and how does it maybe differ to, you know, your previous.

What are you finding?

And you've had, as you say, both experiences from an HR point of view, which I think gives you a unique view on things. And the same with Katie. I think it's actually great because both of you guys have worked in house so you're able to talk to people. But you know, over to you, what are you thinking is what have you discovered in your first, your early days as it were?

Thanks, Mike. Yeah, I think what's been nice is actually that by their nature treasurers seem to be nice people and easy to speak to. Previously I was dealing with quite, how do I put it politely, some quite hard nosed people, if you like, and people that were tough to deal with and were only interested about the highest kind of hourly rate they could achieve. But these treasury people seem to be all kind of down to earth, hard working professionals and they're open to having a chat. And I think a lot of that stems from the fact that we have such a good name in the market. And you know, Mike, you spent the last 20 plus years getting to know these guys and it's nice. It's almost like everyone's a warm lead because of our brand and our established nature. So yeah, I've really enjoyed the first few weeks and the market seems to be more buoyant now. What I'm finding is of course with COVID that there are actually going to be probably over the next few months when the furlough scheme ends and things, some very, very, very strong and good candidates, good treasurers available because as we all know, hospitality, travel, a lot of those industries are going to struggle. They're going to let people go. So if anybody else is thinking of recruiting soon, I would think about putting something in place in September, before October, because there's going to be a whole host of new candidates. And again not necessarily candidates that will be active or live on LinkedIn or job boards, but people that we know and that are talking to us and telling us. That passive candidate database that we've grown and established will be top heavy, I'm sure, come October. So I can see the market picking up for a good few months before Christmas. Yeah, for sure.

And Katie, you know the recovery post Covid, I know that you've had some clients now starting to speak to you a bit more openly, because they're all sort of. They're all. They're all locked down sort of thing across Europe, which are the hotspots, is it? You know, I know that we've got a couple of roles we're working on. For instance, I'm working on in Netherlands and things, and we've got other countries reopening. What are you starting. Starting to see?

I think Europe is sort of further ahead with sort of re entering the marketplace again. A lot of businesses that I've been speaking to are changing the way they work. They're phasing people back into the office, they're adding working from home as a written rule. I've always sort of still recruited throughout lockdown for a couple of clients because, as I'm sure you'll back me up, treasury is still needed and was needed quite significantly throughout lockdown, more for crisis. We're seeing quite a bit of movement now coming through, I think speaking to a lot of treasurers. It's kind of happening at different stages, really, if you take depending on the industry. So some industries are more affected than others, such as I was recruiting for a group treasurer for an aviation business, but obviously now that's a case of when they can bring that person on board, because the aviation industry is going to take sort of one to two years to recover from the effect of COVID I'm recruiting for positions in France. That seems to be a relatively buoyant market. There's Luxembourg and Belgium. I'm starting to speak to some of my clients there who have gone through the crisis management mode and have sort of had some people on furlough come out of that and looked at actually going forward, what's the structure that they need for their teams. And that in turn has led to some new opportunities. So the Nordics as well, has opened up a good door for us in terms of they are more actively recruiting for treasury professionals now. So I think everybody's slowly coming back into sort of some form of normality once they've done that whole recovery plan. It's around Actually, what does that treasury function look like? And actually, what I'm finding is that treasury across Europe has a more powerful voice than it did have before.

I think that's also borne out by the fact. Just going back to. You gave that example of the aviation client. You know, you say it's going to take two years to recover and it will, and we'll see to the, you know, the levels. But you're still recruiting the job or it's still coming back on, isn't it? Because they still need the person. Explain that in a minute. Because treasury at the key, the core.

Of things, would you say?

Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, they were during lockdown and even more so now, businesses are looking at it as a key position. And, you know, as I said, it's a case of it's when's the right time to bring that person on, rather than if there's still a need for that person. And, you know, a lot of businesses are doing that and actually, as I said, they are looking at how they can expand it to cover it. And I think people will start looking at sort of having that contingency plan just in case in the future something like this, God forbid, happens again. They want to put those kind of things in play. And I know a lot of the treasurers I've been speaking to have said that in terms of their own personal skill set, they've kind of added a whole new remit in to their treasury toolkit because they've had to do things that they never thought they would ever have to get involved in just to keep their businesses afloat.

Yeah. And I think I'm hearing that a lot of people are starting that return to work. I don't know if you noticed, but my LinkedIn feed, and I think I was talking to Simon about it, was absolutely full of people having photos of them and their destiny. Oh, great. To get away from the kitchen table. I'm. I'm back at work and things. And I think now this. This new way of working from, you know, I've talked to all of the. On all these panels and stuff like that. People want that communal aspect. And I think, you know, I've talked to people, they're going to. Some of them, they're going to sort of, you know, Monday to Wednesday, you know, or, you know, go into the office and then maybe the Thursday is networking day and then Friday is the working from home day, you know, with a mixture of different things, or that's what they're starting to end. Because the sociability factor as well, I think rather than everybody's been saying to me and just, I mean Simon, just you. Because you know, what have you been seeing with some of your guys talking to them? Are they back in the office or more working from home?

No, the majority are at home. I think speaking with yeah some of the kind of bigger corporate clients. They've, they've noticed that it's actually, it's improved, it's made, it's made kind of the processes better for them and they're, they seem to be getting more work done. I think there's obviously pros and cons, isn't there to office being office space and being at home. But on the flip side of that, some of the guys I speak to would rather be going to work, you know, if they've got lots of young kids around and things it's, you know, back into work as opposed to being at home. But yeah, but the majority, yeah, certainly seems to be. And the general consensus I've had with calls has been that they're not going to even review going back into their offices till January, some of them.

And Katie, within Europe and some of your clients, are you seeing the same?

Well, most of my clients have started that phased approach so they phase people back into the office over the course of the last couple of months, but with the option that if they don't feel comfortable to go back into the office then people aren't being, it's not being enforced that they have to. And also the working from home is an element that a lot of HR people are building into their policies where between two to three days people will be working from home. As a general rule going forward that I have seen and I've spoken to people in Belgium, Luxembourg and Switzerland about that and Germany as well.

We want to keep it to time today. So we're just going to do a, you know, half hour chat and various other bits and just, I was just going to cover off on state of salaries, reward bonuses. The key thing I would say is, you know, number of people had to take, you know, some companies, you know, 10% cuts as temporary things. They're now seeming to start to come back from that as a recovery. But in addition to that, one of the key messages I've been shouting out to people is that usually we get this hiatus, sometimes we come towards Christmas, we're into or just coming up to Q4, we sometimes see that people, oh, I'm not going to make a move. I'm going to wait for this. This year's bonus, you know, be 10, 30, 50K, maybe even more. And you think, oh wow, you know, fair enough. Or it might be in January through to March and as it gets closer, people can't move. Well, this year there ain't no bonus. You know, it's, you'd be lucky to get 10, 15, 20p. And one of the things I think is that that's going to create a more level, more fluid market without such ups and downs. And then suddenly you get this rush, you know, they get, people get that, oh, April, I want to make my move before the summer and stuff. And it's sometimes these jobs aren't around, so I think, you know, a lot of people need to be prepared for that. And that's one of the things, I mean, I'm going to ask you guys about state of salaries and rewards in your market. So I was just going to say again, I'm seeing this from the US that there are, there's a few instances, I'm talking to some, a lot of US clients and things like that, but with our us, you know, roles, all of them got put on hold. You know, just as we went into Covid, everything was put on hold. And I'm starting to, starting to, you know, get more inquiries coming back. Oh, we might be doing stuff, but it's going to be October, November. So I think if you are someone in the US looking for a role, contact us, just drop us with your resume. And so we're ready for that recovery. I'm seeing it moving very quickly through LinkedIn but already I'm starting to see applicant rates drop, you know, whereas beginning of September, treasurer role will come up and 200 applicants now it's already dropping down 100 applicants. And actually I'm talking to a couple of clients out there who are saying, oh, it's a lot lower impact on rewards and salaries. I think it's been flat for the past year, but say bonuses are gone. Looking at you too, you know. So, you know, let's go to Simon for the UK market and then Katie for the European market. Are you seeing similar within, you know, what are the salaries, you know, doing for you guys?

Simon?

Yeah, so UK wise, I think as you mentioned, we have the salary survey option for people to take and it's, it's massively important for as many people to take that as possible to see if they are on a par with their peers. But the market at the moment, yeah, I think salary wise, I'm speaking to people anywhere from maybe kind of 40k up to about 70 or 80k. Yeah, there's jobs coming through. We've had interim contracts, roles for three to six months and permanent roles that were just taken on board in the last. Both in the last two weeks. So yes, it's certainly picking up and I think companies are prepared to pay the right money for good treasurers and that will always continue. So if things keep going the way they have over, over my, you know, it's only a four week experience so far but it's starting to certainly look positive for me.

Katie, I don't think there's been a massive change in the salaries being offered or Covid having an impact on that. I think, I suppose to put it bluntly, you pay for what you get in terms of treasury, which is, you know, I think that there hasn't been a lot of change. I know bonus is obviously a big discussion point and a gray area at the moment, but I think now with the whole working from home benefit built in as well, I think we'll still see it being quite competitive. But as we've mentioned, I think it's really important for everybody who wants to sort of know whether or not their salary is competitive in the current market especially it's always good to take part in our salary survey which is treasurysalary.com and I think then you get to see we break it down per market and you get to see how you compare.

Yeah, and I think that's great. And we've been doing the salary survey now for 10 plus years and what I want to do is get to these live feed stage. We're at 450, I think people taking.

Part over 500 is where it starts.

To gain some momentum. So Anyone listening today, tapeheart and treasurysalary.com it's free two minutes of your life. And you know what we're going to do is a bit, going to be a bit like a Bloomberg feed where someone takes part in your treasurer one week and you take part in the survey and they say, oh, you know, a month later you got a salary review. Mike, what's the current. Hang on. Just you look at the feed and it will tell you your average salary, your range and another five treasurers might have taken part. So it constantly updates itself and we're going to be moving to a new system soon that will actually keep that rolling, which I think is just going to be absolutely amazing. So please do that guys. Right, as we wrap up the show today, we've got a couple more minutes. I wanted to. We recently did the Bounce Back Program where we spoke to, we had amazing response. Over 200 originally registered for the first Bounce Back program. So much so we ran it again. We did zoom calls with loads of guys trying to help for free and we gave lots of information about treasury skills area. Treasury skills wheel still got a lot of those resources on the website. So go to treasuryrecruitment.com but I was just going to ask Simon and then Katie back to myself, what do you think that people should be doing to prepare themselves and about thinking about how to be ready as the market starts to heat up. So again going round in the circle, Simon, over to you, what do you think things that people need to focus on?

I think my recommendations would be first and foremost and obviously most importantly get in touch with me, get in touch with us as a company, get registered, let us know what it is you're looking for. We should be the first port of call. Aside to that, the obvious kind of things that you expect, make sure the CV is up to date and that LinkedIn is updated with your newest kind of skill set and job title and just make sure you're visible to people. As I said prior to this there the market is picking up, there are more companies looking to hire. So yeah, I think why kind of, yeah, why wait? My advice would simply be get registered with, with everyone now and try and find or get yourself kind of one step ahead of the rest of the market because I think we're going to see a, that a heavy saturated market come kind of end of October, November. That's, that's my ready for it.

Katie, over to you.

I agree with Simon that I think it's going to be candidate saturated and I think in order to sort of get ahead you do need to sort of use your initiative and have everything sort of ready to go and your sort of self marketing plan ready. And I think, you know, one of the key things is a cv as Mike said, if you go onto our website there's information about how best to, to write and update your cv. So it's really important to have that ready and know sort of how you compare and what that stretches against somebody with the same title as you. What have you done to add to the business and add value to the business? I think then you know you are looking at sort of brushing off those interviewing skills as well, making sure that you're fully prepared for any interviews, looking at the kind of feedback that you get from interviews and learning from that as well and just knowing sort of who you want to approach for a role having all of your connections updated on your LinkedIn and getting recommendations where you can. So it's just really the whole kind of 360 kind of self marketing strategy which as Mike's kind of said we covered and the tools are there on our website if you need them.

Great advice from both of you. I mean the one thing I was going to do was also focus on having a real strategy. I spoke to and I quoted it few times on the Bounce Back program but bears repeating. I spoke to a treasurer. He, you know, he's currently out there in the market looking. He'd done over 100 applications for different roles and I was like, whoa, you know, let's focus that down. Go from, you know, firing these big cannibals to bullets. And I think that's what you guys listening need to do is just sit back and have a real strategy.

When he connected with me, we sat down, we hone down the top three.

Or four roles that we could see through LinkedIn that might suit him. And actually by doing that we identified one. He'd had a pharmaceutical background, there was a company, a related sector, narrowed it down. We then background research together and I tried to give advice. No cash, no cash involved. It was just more to help him and his job search. I do prefer it where we do get paid but I want to help him with his career and, and one of the things I think you guys listening have an actual strategy, not just oh, fire it out, fire it out. And I think because then we got results, we got into the final round, unfortunately didn't quite get there, but we're still working with him and we're going to really keep pushing in the months and I think as the US market starts to really take off, that's where we can really help A lot of the time, you know, I seeing UK senior markets starting to pick up, I've actually got a couple of roles potentially we're speaking to people in Europe about as well. So finally, you know, much more. What do we call it? The W Covery. We're seeing that coming back, I think it's called. But the only other thing I'd say is again I said at the start of the show we'd appreciate if you're listening today and you think, oh, actually I really enjoy the show, Mike, I would volunteer to be a guest. We'd love to have you on the show. It's been a rattle through today. We kept it nice and short and sweet with us. Any of us about the European markets is katyreasuryrecruitment.com It's Simon at treasuryrecruitment.com It's Mike@treasuryrecruitment.com it's a bit simple that. So just drop us an email or go to the website again. Treasurerecruitment.com that's it really, you know, just anything else to add from Katie or Simon? Any final words? Because I was finishing. Thanks everyone. Top three tips. Each of you has given a great tip but you know, for me it's just about get a real recruitment strategy. Ktpu, you would. What the one bit would you say? And Simon, with one bit for you.

To me it's just making sure you're aware of what added value you've had to a business. If you are looking for a new role, what's going to set your CV apart from everybody else's that lands on someone's desk?

Yeah, agreed. And just sometimes the very simple things. I think I was discussing with Mike last week, wasn't I? Somebody sent me a 15 page CV. So it was quite a simple reply. I said condense it down to two pages maximum and send it back to me and he then sent me back a five page cv. So we're getting there. But you have to think about people's time and value and nobody is going to read a CV that's longer than three pages. I mean, two's the maximum really. So just be very brief and blunt. Bullet points and as Katie mentioned, facts and figures, numbers where you've enhanced businesses, what your contribution's been and that's all you need to put on a cv. They'll discuss the further elements of the roles with you at interview stage. Short, sharp, sweet, bullet points. Thank you very much. Two pages, that's all you need.

And that's literally today's podcast, guys. Thank you very much, Simon. Thank you, Katie, Great.

I knew you would be.

We look forward to, well, getting back to, well, business as normal, as business as usual rather for next week's show. So we'll have another lovely treasure room for you but we gave you a little bit of breathing space this week. Hope you enjoyed it. Get in contact with us whenever we can help. If you're a client, we've got the candidates, if you're a candidate, hopefully we got the jobs out there we can place you. So thanks very much, guys.

Thanks.