Treasury Career Corner LIVE in Chicago with Kerri Howard and Raquel Alvarez Mateos

Foreign.

To this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. And a special thanks to Flywire, our fantastic sponsors. If you've ever wondered whether there was a way to ease your international transaction hassles, they're the guys to talk to.

If you follow the link in our.

Show notes you can see me talking to my mate Greg Levin, their Senior VP of Sales. I get to ask Greg about who are Flywire and how they can help you and your treasury team with your cross border payment headaches. Just follow the link to the interview in today's show notes. And now let's get on with the show. In this week's show, another Treasury Career Corner Live recorded this time in Windy City, Summit, Chicago, my 14th time there. We catch up once again with Raquel Alvarez Mateus from Kearney. She tells us more about her career story and Kerry Howard, the treasurer. Aramark, hope you enjoy this week's episode. All the others from Vegas through to Texas, London, then we did Chicago and then also we're going to have another one with our Greece, Athens when I spoke at Treasure Creek Corner Live there and then we're going to head on after, after the summer we head to Dublin, then straight to New York, then we're back to London. We've got Euro Finance coming up, we've got AFP in Nashville and we'll do finish off the year with our traditional Treasury Career Corner Live in London. So an amazing rest of 2024 beckons. But for now enjoy my Chicago session with the lovely Raquel and Kerry.

This is Treasury Career Corner Live. This is where I talk to amazing treasurers about their treasury careers. I've got these amazing two ladies. They will introduce themselves in a moment but this is who I am except for having a rather large head on the slide. I'm sorry about that. I'm Mike Richards. I run the treasury recruitment company. I move you guys from one job to another job. We recruit all levels from Treasury Analyst to global treasurer. So I help you with your careers. We also do personal branding with your LinkedIn profile. We give you lots of advice, have a beautiful team, much better looking than me as you can see there. But this is how it all started. So I've been a recruiter 25 years but pre pandemic I was enjoying talking to treasurers each and every week, which I love doing. So I thought I know what, I'll record my conversations. I did ask their permission, first of all, but then what I did was I created the podcast. Thought we'd maybe do 10 episodes. Just done 327 as of this morning. Latest guest, lovely David Viney, Global treasurer of Harley Davidson. We've had some amazing guests, actually. We've had Korsh, Louis Vuitton. Yeah. And other names are available. A couple of ground rules and I can see that a few people, I'm not going to name them and shame them because I do know, first of all, you made the effort to come here, put your phones away, dedicate, give yourselves the next hour to yourselves because why else who else is going to help you with your treasury careers? No one. So we're going to put the phones away because they will be there and if you don't, you're not investing in yourselves. The structure of this session, to give you a bit more, I'm outlining it. Each of our guests will introduce themselves. It's my intro, it's me, English guy. We will go through the ladies, how they started in treasury, how they develop their treasury careers and where they see the future of treasury as we go through the session. But again at the end, we're going to get you to ask some questions. Think of the questions. Now it's your opportunity. When was the last time you got to speak to two amazing treasurers and a global treasury recruiter? Okay, move on. So first of all, I have the lovely Raquel, if you would introduce yourself. Raquel.

Good morning everybody. I'm Raquel Alvarez Mateos. I'm the treasurer for Courtney. I've been with Courtney for approximately just under two years. Courtney is a multinational global consulting. We operate in approximately 45 countries, 16 different line of businesses. And the most important thing is a privately owned partnership. And everything that we do goes back to the coroners and to the employees. That's effectively. I start with my career back In Ireland in 1998, pre Euro working for Accenture, starting in the Dresser intercompany department, managing intercompany exposures, helping through the European Service center the different locations to manage their cash positions to help them with their closing. From Adsense I moved to Citibank to the agency treasury department where at that point many large US multinational companies they were moving their either back office operations or open insured service operations in Ireland, taking advantage of a low tax jurisdiction that it was becoming at that point I had the opportunity through Citibank to work with PPG Johnson, Avon, Kimberly Clark, the role that I had with them was really looking the foreign exchange settlements, cash position netting always helping them to really maximize their tax structure through the cash management operations that they were focusing on through artline. After Citibank, I moved to Ingersoll Rand that was one of my key network reached out to me and say hey, I have this opening position. Would you like to help me to set up the European Service center here in Ireland? And I said hey, why not? This is another challenge, this is an opportunity. So I started working for this person, a team of four people. We centralize all European services for different countries. Cash management mount again Netin cash pool all the different structures that it was used to maximize the cash across the European location. I was like okay, this is great, this is working. I need another challenge. And I had the opportunity to take a position with Tyco International. Tyco, it was a very large conglomerate company that made themselves famous for the misuse of expenses. So I had the opportunity to work with them to just do the analysis of all the bank accounts that they had globally to do a breakdown of how the new operations across Europe was going to be working. For personal reasons, I moved to New York to work for KPMG in the advisory Treasury Department. It was an eye opener. I loved it the way that I had the opportunity to work with very large US automotive companies. But I discovered that advisory was not for me. There was a lot of networking that it did involve a lot of the outside working hours. I did learn a lot about how important the networking is in your career. But how do you much you need to nurse that networking? It's not a volume but it's the quality that you put in there and through there. In 2008, as the economy was globally was sinking, I decided let's reach out to my network. Let's see how can I really cover myself from the advisory. And I took a position with Tarco International back again in Switzerland. So that network that I built up back three years ago, it helped me out to go back into Europe. I ended the staying in Switzerland for almost six years working for Tyco International in already now the breakup company. I was responsible for back office intercompany portfolio managing all the back operations but also supporting all the cash management operations. From there I moved to Zurich for financial the insurance company where I was able to help them through a eight month engagement with the cash flow forecast. They were engaged on improving the accuracy of their cash flow forecast through a new tool that they were implementing. And that was for me an opportunity to See through the eyes of a public company how much you can actually extend how much focus is in forecast, but how much it was the focus in automation of all the processes that they are behind the forecast. From there I had the opportunity to work for Aleris, which is another aluminum company that it was also based in Switzerland. I was the deputy of the European Treasurer, really focused on forecasting, improving the processes As a multinational aluminum company. The perspectives and the roles and the models are working very different, right? And the focus was really match short term liquidity. How the forecast was focused was helping the company for the short term liquidity. In 2013, after two kids, my husband and I we decided to relocate from Switzerland to be closer to the family and we move here back to the US when we were able to take advantage of grandparents support and really have a little bit more of close family life, we moved to Columbus, Ohio, where my husband is originally from. And in July 2014 I started to work for Hexion, which is a large multinational chemical company. At that point we were at 2.4 billion revenue on a year basis. I was responsible for the cash management. I was also responsible for sure services to one of our sister companies through the seven years, almost seven years that I was with hers. And I was able to do two divestitures. I went with the third divestiture to another company. It was a very dynamic company. And definitely after seven years I had the opportunity to turn around and say if I'm going with the next divestiture, that will be great. And I was chosen and it was one of the best opportunities. I had the opportunity to start working for Big Life Synthetics, a newly formed company privately held by two different investors. And within 18 months of being acquired, we had to set up a new bank relationship through nine different countries with a new bank. We have to separate completely our ERP systems. We set up host to host connection for those nine different countries. And we also embrace ourselves on acquisition for GE Chemicals. So within 18 months we did accomplish a lot. And after 20 months through my network, I had someone reach out to me and say there is a confidential search for a partnership. Would you be interested? I had the opportunity to start the process. I was more curious about what a partnership, what was embedded in the actually the search and the position. And I've been with Kearney for just under two years. We are implementing Kyriva. We did the selection of the vendor, we've done facility increase. We had only. We have three team members and myself in the treasury team and one of the team Members was in maternity leave for six months. She still came back and she still be outperforming herself from when she left. So for me, it's absolutely amazing how much you can actually do in a short period of time if you actually drive what you can actually. What you actually want to be.

Right. So we're going to move across to Kerry, over to you.

Okay, great. All right there. It's working. All right. Good morning. And that's great. Raquel and I just met yesterday via phone call and she's amazing. She. Her career is phenomenal. And as a mother myself, raising two boys, it's a lot to do. These heavy careers and moms, dads out there, we do have to cover a lot. I started my career in treasury pretty much out of school or really before I picked my graduate degree. I'll speed it up here, but I'll just how I fell into it, really. By chance. I was doing a lot of internships. I was always driven. I knew I was going to be in business, but I couldn't figure out what. My dad was always in sales and I just realized that sales wasn't probably going to be for me. So I looked at hr. I was like, I really enjoy people. I wanted to be in human resources and give back to people. So I started going down that path. And by chance, one of my internships was with a Treasury department that needed an administrative assistant for the summer. But I love the excitement. The treasure there had been there for 45 years. And he explained to me what fun it is to move money with a lot of zero behind it. And I thought, wow, that's like a lot. And then the banks coming in. I met a lot of folks from overseas and that's really where I started to believe that I really.

This is.

I think this is my calling. I wanted to come back and this is where I know Raquel and I share very much the networking and I know Mike does. I've known him for many years too. That was when I realized that again, my people skills were going to be valuable here because I'm not usually about myself.

It's.

I put my energy into others and I'm a just an optimist. I'm always looking at the good things. Even when I'm faced with challenges, it's okay. What can I do to improve my situation? Like, I'm going to own it. Accountability was always front and center. So I, I really wanted to work for this company. And they recently had been spun off. They were their new public company. I was still Starting my freshman year in college and I was like what was it going to take? And the CEO at the time, for whatever reason loved the U of A finance school in Tucson. So I was like that's it, I'm going to Tucson and I'm going to have a career in treasury and I'm going to have a job there. So that's another thing that I always set goals and they were pretty long term. It was like where am I going to see myself in five years? And so that was. That's been very consistent through my career. So that first company was originally Greyhound Financial. They became Sonova Capital and then went bankrupt. I managed about four and a half billion of their commercial paper program. Worked for them for about eight years. They went bankrupt and went through that whole process in my 20s.

This wasn't her fault.

No, I was only 20 something. I didn't mince the commercial paper. Yeah, I did roll the paper and didn't miss an investment window. But again just going through that experience was so eye opening that I decided I was going to keep on this path. And then I had an inflection point in a bankrupt company in Arizona at the time, late 90s, not very many corporate headquarters in Phoenix. And I was counseled to you need to get out sooner with everybody's going to flood the market in finance here after this company closes its doors. And so I decided to start looking and I found through my network I found a. And this is where I started to take lateral moves. Really was interested in the debt capital markets. I wanted to do longer term debt and take that route rather than the treasury operations side. As a first you still needed it. But I was like not right yet. So then Allied Waste, I approached them. I knew somebody I'd worked with before. They were looking for a senior treasury analyst.

So.

So I went from a manager to a senior treasury analyst. But again intentional because I knew that they were issuing debt almost every year. I also got to know the treasurer who also had a very much a passion for treasury and is a lifelong treasurer. And so I just kept moving through that. That was about eight years there. They went through a large transaction that was part of the team to bring. We merged with Republic Services, brought in their team, moved from Fort Lauderdale to Phoenix and at that point I had to. I was also building a team on the capital market side which is phenomenal. I also am very proud of the people that I've worked for and have come to work for me. I believe that is a huge responsibility that I take very Seriously. And I've. I can count probably at least five or six that have gone on to be treasures and even more so than me. And it's been great. I'm so proud of those. And we still keep in contact, all of them. And I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody in my head. But then after Republic, I decided another theme that I had was culture. And it started right at Sonova. I'm still best friends with some of the people that I met and was there when I had my first child, was there when I had to go through some professional and personal challenges. And I'll never forget those moments. And that's also something that I sought out deliberately in every career move. Again, going back to my people moment, it's. I couldn't stress enough to the people that were coming in new to treasury how much relationships matter with your banks, with your colleagues, with your peers, with your boss. Every single one, no matter where they are in the organization, you have to treat people like people and as humans. And we all have our challenges and some are more opening than others on that. And so that was very much in tune with me. So after Republic Services, I decided I wanted to continue on my career in Treasury. And now is the time to leave Arizona. The first move. And I wanted to be with a global company because now what I was lacking was global and treasury operations. I was senior manager of corporate finance, went over to Stryker and moved to my family to Kalamazoo. They will never forget me. Kalamazoo was fun, but for. It's a little small for me, but it was a great company. Phenomenal experience. I was only there for two years managing their global cash investments as well as their shared service center over in Europe. Met a lot of great people again, was assistant treasurer then. At that point I got a call from my network and it was a company out of Seattle called Univar a lot at the time. Yeah, they were Univar Solutions, a chemical Distribution Company. 10 billion size global again. Back on the corporate finance side, treasurer I had worked with long ago. I says, hey, this company's going to go ipo. Wouldn't you love to do an ipo? And aren't you bored in investment grade? And I was like, let me give it a shot. I've only been here for two years. I'm afraid that I'm going to burn bridges and I don't want to do that. So I was very careful about that move. And also with my family, I'm ripping them out of a home that I. Two years here, two Years there. But it was. I knew in my gut it was. Again, it was going to be scary. It was going to be a challenge. I never, like, I thought, why? How am I going to get involved in an ipo? I don't. I think of myself as an average. I was always average in school, but I was always very competitive against myself. And someone had told me that you should run towards the projects that no one else wants, because that is the experience you're going to get from that is going to be. You'll be very proud of getting through that. So I decided I'm going to go for it. And that point I became interested in building and fixing teams, ground up. I've built two or three treasury teams from there. We had to move to Chicago, which is how I ended up here. And that was in 2013. And at that point, the treasurer then that had brought me over, decided he was not going to relocate his family. And so they said, we were going to give you the opportunity to be the treasurer. And that was my moment where I was just like, oh, my gosh, all that hard work, all the late hours, all the missing family events like it. It paid off. And then I made a promise to myself that going forward, I was going to really, again seek culture that brings out the best in me and then give back to my family, then deserves more time. And that was their reward. And then from Univar went through an ipo, went through an acquisition, and then a subsequent divestiture of a business in 2000. I guess that would have been 2019. And then Covid hit and I was already looking. And I'm sure all of you might have these similar stories. I have always been proactive before losing a role. That was the first time my role was eliminated. I could see it coming. I think going through that experience really again made me stronger. And again, my optimism was just, keep moving, you've got a great network. Reach out to everybody and seek out culture. I did experience the Gamestop saga. I went right into that. Was not expecting that again, but I think again, through the experience prepared me for that chaos that ensued for two years. Great experience, great people that I've met along the way. And I really had to probably roll up my sleeves where I never, ever had to do that before on the treasury operations side and talent development. So that was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. And then I decided it was, I need to get out of Dallas and come back home. I left GameStop and fast forward another networking opportunity, and I got a call, and now I'm at my, what I'm going to call my end of my career is going to end up at Aramark. It's if any of the company, I've only been there for about three months now, they're about 18 billion in size. They are global food and food service and facilities management company. You may know them from their uniform business that they spun off last year as a separate public company. But the culture, everything that I again I'm a treasurer so I took another somewhat lateral move but I have different responsibilities and I'm going to end it here at Aramark and it's a great company and again just great people and great culture.

So.

So there's lots of learning points throughout the conversation there. But what we're going to look at is pick out a little bit more about education and qualifications. A lot of the audience, some of the audience rather earlier stage of their career. So they're looking at ctp, looking at credits, maybe coming here. So I wanted to ask both of you what a difference education, if you like, are played just briefly and things because I think there's lots more about some of the keys to your success and networking which I think we want to bring out for these guys and why coming here is important. So Raquel, first of all to you, education, qualifications, okay?

I'm coming from a very humble background where I helped my father to get his primary certificate while I was in secondary school. This is where I'm coming from. My parents didn't know the meaning of network. I wanted to do law and my father was saying to me, I don't know anybody who will help you to get any job. I always believe because what I've been told because my experience, that education is crucial. I have a degree in Spain. While I was in Ireland, I decided to do another degree in financial services because I was missing the financial part, the full economics and the full ratios that it needed to be for the treasury career to understand many of the mathematics that goes with it. And when I moved here to the States in Columbus, it's very traditional and I had a great resume that no one was believing on it because I have not only moved from country to country, but from company to company because my desire to learn more and to have greater experience. So I decided to do the ctp. Now, when someone has a CTP or ACT or whatever their qualification, it has to come with experience, right? And you have to really find that really very unique balance of which qualification is the good one for you. If you want to go through more from marginal Acquisitions go through insurance or you want to cash management or you want to bank relationship. You really have to decide if a CTP or ACT or maybe a CFA is better for your career and career expectations. But also try to balance that experience with that qualification that comes with you, because otherwise you can prove that you know that you can do the work. Right. For me, when I'm looking at resumes, it's extremely important to understand if that person can actually do 60, 70% of their job from day one, can they do it? Are they able to contribute to my needs, to the company needs? From the very beginning, everybody's going to have a learning curve, and it's extremely important to have that learning curve to bring yourself to that uncomfortable spot where you're going to be developing, you're going to be bringing your career forward. Right. As Kerry was saying, find those things that nobody wants to do. But for me, education and certification is very important, especially when you are doing some of the career moves or when you're early in your career.

Before I pass to Kerry, I was just going to make a point here as well, maybe to you guys in the audience. So I recently spoke at texpo Texas conference. Great conference. One of the guys came up to me between sessions, said, oh, Mike, really want to get back into corporate treasury. I was like, brilliant, fantastic. Have you been in corporate treasury? No, but I really like it. Okay, so on day one, whether you've got CTP or not as well, it's not just about qualifications, it's experience as well. And I would say, look, if someone came in, he was in banking, he dealt with treasurers every day. I said, that's great. But I said, when you go and sit in the other side of the desk, can you do contribute 50% or our 50? We are, but they can train me up. I'm like, brilliant, but that's not their job. Your job is to get yourself trained up to that level rather than. And I try to be nice about it, but at the same time I was like, you're going into somewhere, you're going to do a job as a cleaner, but I can't work a broom. Guys, come on, do you need to be fit for purpose? If you like Kerry, you've got education and everything behind you. What have you found?

I have a similar reaction to both Raquel and Mike. I do have an mba, but I watched my father didn't get a college degree until he was in his 40s. And it was all about experience for. Especially in treasury, as you all know. If you Sit somebody cold down in front of a bank portal or try to manage cash and understand the money markets. It really comes down to experience. And then I feel in my situation, I felt education supplemented what I wanted to do because I didn't want to just go to school to put the degree on my or the ctp. I even had my CTP lapsed just because I was like, oh, I learned what I needed to know. I didn't need to have the certificate. I went through the classes and it was great for me. So yeah, that's how. That's my issue with education. I think there's. Everyone's going to have their own personal needs. But I found experience trump the education requirement.

We do some takeaways towards the end, but we're not there yet. We've got here about key to success. Now, both of you have talked about the power of your network and how that's really helped you. Now this is all very well for you guys, your treasurers. This is really easy for you that these guys are going, I'm not in that job yet. Maybe, but if you're sitting out there, we'll start with Kerry actually. So that this one. What if someone is a. They're more introverted in this audience. What if someone is. It's not their natural this if you like. What is if it's not in their nature to actually be outgoing people.

Okay, so that's a great one because I was in that spot for a very long time. I was a very introverted, very quiet person in my early years of treasury. And I think it took a couple things for me. Toastmasters. I signed up for Toastmasters. I wanted to stop the ums and then I wanted to be my authentic self. So it took a lot of coaching and I actually, I was telling Raquel yesterday, actually I. I hired my own executive coach probably about four years ago and it was. I had other executive coaches assigned to me through programs, but I picked her myself and wanted to help her build what I knew was inside me. So again, I would just sum it up as if you're an introverted person. I get it. But I would just small steps and find where you can find some help to get. Because once you get your authentic voice heard, it's phenomenal. You have no fear and you just be yourself and say what you think.

I think there is networking is essential and it's essential in Treasury. Treasury is an extremely small environment and you can be surprised how by me talking to treasurers across the country. We have through our careers bankers that we have worked with in different levels of our life. Not only that, but treasures and treasures knows people because we've been hiring, we've been knowing we had individuals working for us. LinkedIn is extremely powerful and I think that what you need to find is your comfort zone. Not everybody is like the outspoken, like taking the stage, but I think that you have to be genuine with that networking. You have to really find something in common with those people, people that they are going to be able to help you and be prepared to be reciprocated to be able to understand their needs but also be able to share some something personal. Right. Be able to be open about where you want to be in your career. And there is very different relationships from your network that is going to be put you in contact with someone who needs but also from a mentoring point of view, how is your career and especially if you are in a diverting point. Shall I go in this direction? Is this the company that I want to be working? If you have that, then the net, the mentoring is going to be helping you to breaking down sometimes those situations that at that point you're not able to do it. I think it's not only about who do you know, but how much do you know those people. You're not going to be able to perform the 30 years of your career every single day. You will not. You're going to have personal things in your life, but that networking is going to be helping you to balance those situations and helping you to really find a way through the back door in many circumstances. And it's not only about your development, but it's also your personal development, how you grow to be yourself in those positions. Try to find the best of yourself.

This session is also about giving you guys advice. So I did this a few years ago actually here at this conference. There's a couple of doors up. We were chatting away and I said, if you're an introvert, there are a few people. Oh yeah, they didn't put their hands up because they're introverts. Bit scared. But I said, look, when you're going down to the conference hall, in a minute you're going to go and introduce yourself to someone. They say, what do you do now? Could you put your hands up just briefly? If anyone here does cash management, thank you very much. So every single hand goes up. So when you go down there, hi, I'm Touch and Such and I do cash management for my company. Really have something unique about yourself. Have something that you've made a difference for Your company. What have you done to make a difference? Now, if you haven't, you need to talk to me or get another job. But if you have, tell them that I'm Bruno. I've done. This is what I've done. And make it interesting. Make it come up with the fact that actually I did. Again, this is when I did it here. And I said to this audience, I said, do you know what? I hate public speaking. They're like, yeah. I'm like, I can't stand it. Why would I come all this way over a thousand miles to stand up in front of a stage and do this? I said, because I realized 10, 15 years ago to grow the business, I needed to put myself out of the comfort zone. Imposter syndrome and all that malarkey. But that's not what it's about. It's about coming out and meeting you guys and spreading the network sort of thing. Now we're talking about that network and we touched on that. But I actually wanted to come here. Many of the audience here would love to have some of the success you both have. Any advice if you are sitting there, not all of the audience, but even some of the audience. If you're a younger self, Raquel will come to you first about what would you advice would you give to your younger self? If you like?

I think two things. Don't sabotage yourself.

What does that mean?

What it means is that try to believe on yourself. You have to understand your strengths and your weaknesses. You have to really.

No.

Try to manage your career path and trying to figure it out where you want to be. Are you happy in Chicago as your hometown? Do you want to be here for the rest of your life? But do you want to have international exposure? Do you want to have anything that is going to bring you into maybe living in a different country or maybe living or working for a different company? What's the culture that you are looking for? I think for me, when I'm looking at my youngest, it will be two things. When I'm looking right now, how many hours do you spend for a weekend away planning that weekend? I didn't spend those hours, those very few hours managing my yearly career. And I think that this is where it's sit down, figure it out where you want to be. But also the don't, do not cross that road. No matter how you don't like that culture, those individuals, if there is anything on that company that it doesn't agree with your principles, don't go over that. Really try to ensure that when you go, you get up in the morning and you're working, you're happy. There is like a four pillars that I call it in every single job you have your company, your family, your friends and your network. And when one of those ones doesn't actually balance in your life, you can only be for so long, right? One of them, if your company is not balanced, is going to be making you really awkward to actually move forward.

Carrie, ditto to what you just said. Exactly. It's work is work.

It's.

You need to be happy doing it. And always having a passion for what you do is I think, why we're both where we're at. My younger self, I would say one, I never regret anything, right. I always believe I was. I went through my career and the steps that I went through, the hard times and the difficult times and the most joyous times for a reason. So one, I never look back and regret. I look back to learn. And some of the things that I've learned from my younger self as I've aged is wanted to pass along some of that advice to my own children, which they have followed their passion. And two, always ask for help. I look back and I probably struggled through some things that I could have just asked for help. And there being more than a dozen people probably willing to jump in and help.

So we've got time for some questions because we've been allowed some extra time to run the five team questions from the audience. Well, what would be your advice? Transition between a senior level to a material supervisor level. Solar requires leadership skills. Leadership beyond the quote, unquote leadership role.

Okay, I'll answer that real quickly. From my own experience, I didn't become a people manager until I was probably about 12 years into my career. I thought the hardest challenge before those years was dealing with having. Getting other people to get your goals done. So I'm sure you all have experienced that. But I would also say if you enjoy people, you should try to get that opportunity and take the leap. You'll know right away if it's for you or not for you. When I it was difficult. I still remember the exact day when I changed to a people manager and I was like, I'm not sure if this is going to be for me. I thought it was going to be different, but I went through it and it was the best decision I made.

I think it's very difficult. I'm not going to lie to you. I think one of the things as a there's it's very different a manager than A leader, a manager, you manage the work. A leader, you're leading those individuals to succeed. And what you need to understand is a manager who is also a leader is really heavily dependable on the succeed of every single team member. You're not only managing your career, but you're also managing their success and their careers. And for you to be successful, you have to really understand what their strengths, what their weaknesses, but also have very open conversations. As I said earlier on, during your 20, 30 years of your career, you're not going to be successful every single day of your career. You're not going to have personal situations that is going to be affecting that performance or maybe that part of that project. You are not enjoying it that much. Right. You can say, hey, I did it, I was there. It was great. I learned a lot. But guess what? I never want to do it again. I've never wanted to do any chapter 11 ever in my life ever. But I learned right. But I think really going back to you of really breaking down and you have to understand your team in order for you to succeed with that.

Raquel, your takeaway for there on screen.

So I'm going to be present in the moment and practice who you want to be. And I think that this is very important right what you're asking, what does it take to be a leader versus a manager? I think that you need to also look into people that they are around you to really say this is the type of leader that I want to be or this is the type of leader that I do not want to be ever in my whole entire life. Really beat yourself like but also be understand where you are at that point in your career and be able to take advantage of those moments, understand when you are present in the moment, take that moment, learn what you have to do but also be looking into the future. How is that is going to be helping you to get in your for your objectives moving forward.

Carrie, yours.

Yes, it says it all right there. So I won't repeat the words but really what I think about is especially after going through this now, now on this panel is really to the leadership point. Lead from behind. I've always wanted to emulate the great leaders that I've worked for. And that's what one of my takeaways is. Self awareness, authenticity, always. And then go for it. Go for the opportunities and then always plan for every scenario. Just go through it in your head how that plays out. And I think that is those are my takeaways. Cool.

So my final ones. So first of all well done. You got here. You walk the length of Navy Pier to probably get here. You battle through queues and everything else, but you've actually made the effort. You come out of the office, it would have been easier to stay in your corner home office, maybe not to not show up, but it means you can make a connection. Because working remotely, yeah, it's great. You get through all the tasks, but you don't actually meet people. You're getting to ask that question. You gain advice from some amazing treasures. Now, when you do go downstairs and when you go to the next sessions, do take notes. I haven't got time to tell the full story, but basically one of my great clients was on the podcast, told me that whenever he meets someone, someone said, oh, yeah, let's chow, hang on. And then you go to one side, they'll take a note about what he's done with that person, or someone's going off to university, he then comes back and he makes it personal reconnection. And again, then you just follow up. So when you meet people today, be careful with your follow up. Don't just ping them a quick LinkedIn. Oh, hi, we met over coffee. You're like, who are you again? Do say, I met you at Windy City. Would be great to have you as part of my network. You've heard from these ladies, the power of their network has helped them with their careers, develop themselves, get team members, the lot.

Thank you once again for tuning into another great episode of the Treasury Career Corner podcast. We appreciate your support and enthusiasm and everything that you make it worthwhile by joining us as we we talk to these amazing treasury professionals from across the us, the uk, Europe and beyond. We've got more exciting guests and live events coming up throughout the rest of the year, so going to go into that in a moment. We love doing this content, but as I've said to you, is this all we do? We do get asked this. Whilst we love sharing the tips for success, we want you to learn from other treasurers and their successful treasury careers.

But at the end of the day.

We pay for this podcast through hiring people, through recruiting people, through placing you in your next role. So if you're seeking to recruit, call us. If you're looking for a new role, call us or email. You can email in the US, contact Joe Grabowski, my colleague joe@treasuryrecruitment.com across Europe, contact the lovely Katie K A T I e@treasury recruitment.com or contact me, Mike Richards. Mike treasury recruitment.com I help out both Joe And Katie with any of the roles they're working. But also focus a lot more on my efforts on the senior roles and across the UK markets as well. So reach out anytime. If you need help, we're here to give it. But I mentioned we've had some amazing trips so far this year. We've been across to New York, we were then did Vegas, we did Texas, we then came back and did London. Just come back from another trip to Chicago. It's been amazing, but we have more. We are heading into Europe, we're doing Greece, we've got Dublin after the summer, we've got New York. I know, so good. They named it twice. But the fact is we're going there for New York Cash Exchange and also doing our own event then AFP Nashville. Can't wait to see you.

Europe.

Don't worry, we're not leaving you alone. We're back. We've got Netherlands, we've got Germany, we've got the uk. So if you are interested, keep an eye on our events page where you will get emails about it, but do come and join us. And I thought I'd also give a shout out to everyone that did our most recent salary survey. They went to treasurysalary.com they took part. Over 1100 treasury professionals participated, giving us and you the latest insights into the market, into salaries, into exactly how much you should be paid. A great benchmark. We ran it at the end of Q1, we're continuing to run the survey. We're going to release the next set of results at the end of Q3, so look out in your inboxes. If you take apart before we're going.

To get to update.

If you would like to be part of the survey, start to finish, less than two minutes, go to treasurysalary.com you get the most recent survey, you then become part of the ecosystem. We love doing it. It's great for you. When you go for your pay review, you know how much you're worth. It's amazing. So go to their treasurysalary.com but until next time, if you need help, call us. If you want to recruit, call us or drop us an email and I look forward to speaking to you soon or seeing one of our events. See you soon.

Sam.