Treasury Career Corner LIVE in Las Vegas with Raquel Alvarez Mateos, Steve Bullock and Aimee Cullen

Foreign.

To this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. And a special thanks to flywire, our fantastic sponsors. If you've ever wondered whether there was a way to ease your international transaction hassles, they're the guys to talk to. If you follow the link in our show notes, you can see me talking to my mate Greg Levin, their Senior VP of Sales. I get to ask Greg about who are Flywire and how they can help you and your treasury team with your cross border payment headaches. Just follow the link to the interview in today's show notes. And now let's get on with the show. So we have a treat for you this week and for the next three weeks we have 10 guests. Over the next month we go everywhere from KBA Live in Vegas through to texpo, then back to London and then the Windy City Summit in Chicago. Each week I ran a live panel and we recorded it. So I've got some amazing guests coming up for you. In today's episode, it's Kariba Vegas Live. We had Amy Cullen from Carrier, we have Steve Bullock from Kyriba and Raquel Alvaros Matos from ke Amazing guest. Enjoy the show. Lots more value coming up. As I say, next week's show you'll have Texo in Texas, followed by Treasure CRE Corner Live in London and then Windy City. Ten guests for the price of. Well, we don't charge anyway. Enjoy the show. Good afternoon, Las Vegas.

Afternoon.

Ah, we, we have got a few people, so a couple of ground rules actually. Now I'm not going to slam that laptop closed, but you guys have got an hour or just less than an hour with these amazing panelists. And me, an English recruiter can't have everything. I'm sorry. But aside from that, put away your phones. They're still going to be there in an hour. You've got some time to find out about these amazing people and their treasury careers. What gives me the right to ask them? So I'm a Treasury recruiter, have been for 25 years and basically I talk to treasurer like this each and every week, talk to them about their treasury careers, how they develop them, and that's what this session is about. I run the treasury recruitment company. So if ever you're looking for a role, looking for the, looking to recruit, then you give us a call. That's not a sales Pitch that again is why I've been invited up here. So that'd be more. That's my team and they've not got quite as big heads. They look better. And then I do a podcast. Quite a few listeners of here podcast. We've got some of them there. Jim Cates recently, Sampalota, Treasure of Porsche. It's a really good listen. But enough from me. The structure of this afternoon's session is going to be each of them, each of these guys is going to introduce themselves to you, they're going to tell you how they've developed their careers. Then we'll get a bit later on we'll do Q and A. We're not going to run over time because you saw that earlier, but then we'll do some takeaways. So first of all, I passed the lovely Amy Cullen and there you go, Amy, over to you.

Okay, so I started my career in treasury with ABN Amro in their outsourced treasury team, which was what I taught summer job and planning to go to Australia. But eight years later I was still there. It gave me, I'd say, those insights into Treasury. I enjoyed the cash, I enjoyed the international names and I really got a feel, I think for how interesting treasury could be around that sort of solution delivery piece that sadly ended in a redundancy when the. When ABN Amro and a lot, I think Citibank, JP Morgan decided to extract themselves from that business. So I did a year with Marsh Management at their special purpose vehicles just before the banking crisis when we were actually. It was, yeah, I won't say it was what triggered it, but we were managing companies that issued asset backed securities so that lasted a year. I didn't really enjoy that as much because it was very accounting focused, but I had thought I should probably give my ACCA a whirl. And from there I went into bank of Scotland in their middle office treasury team which also ended in a redundancy. So there was a bit of a team going on. And From, I'd say 2011 I joined Donson. So that was my first jump into the corporate treasury world, which I loved and I had great opportunities there to work in various different teams and in different countries. So I like my first day in the office was actually in Dublin Airport and went over to Belgium for three days, had a great time there, going back and forth. Eventually lived there for about a year. From there I went to Brazil because that was the next opportunity for promotion. So to become a Treasury manager, that was the next opening. And after Two and a half years there and very little Portuguese to show for it. I had the opportunity to go to the corporate headquarters in New Brunswick. So it was a great 9, 10 years of traveling the world. But I ultimately wanted to get back to Ireland. So came back January 2020, just before COVID hit and I joined a travel tech company. So I was initially planning to IPO and that was the attraction for me there. But obviously that wasn't going to happen in those circumstances. Did three years there and then ended up with carrier the 1st of September last year. So I lead a global team there and have responsibilities for global cash and operations and get involved in a lot of strategic projects with the team, such as this creep implementation.

And now I'm going to pass over to the amazing Steve Bullock. If you need me to translate his English accent, I can help you later. Steve, over to you.

Thank you, Mike.

I'm going to keep that up because it's much nicer. Okay.

I just want to see what you've written about me first. Okay. I had to write this down because I started in treasury in 1986. In fact, it wasn't called treasury then. I worked in an accounts payable department and the treasurer was actually called the chief accountant. And I fell into treasury completely by accident. I I, the guy that was actually doing the treasury pieces, which meant literally walking checks to the bank and then deciding to do what to do with that money once it had cleared, decided one day he wasn't going to come to work. And so I was asked to take the checks to the bank. And at the time I was working for a company that is now called aon. I spent 14 years in that business. I was fortunate enough to be part of five acquisitions of which I managed to stay within the Treasury Department that then finally got called Treasury. We implemented a Treasury system and then 1999, I left that firm after 14 fantastic years. Thoroughly enjoyed it. So I've cut my teeth on Treasury. For the people in the audience that love reconciliation, I'm one of those as well. I'm happy to admit it. I've had therapy and I've managed to so I can openly talk about it now. And I was obviously through those years I was dealing with all the pre Euro currencies. So we're investing over a billion dollars equivalent on a regular basis. I was doing the hedge accounting and FX management for about half a billion dollars on an annual basis. So for me it put me in a great position that in the apart from meeting Mike in 1999, which is another highlight of my career. I then decided to move to software. So at the moment I work with Korea. I've been here for seven years. The first nine years of my life in treasury software, I was actually part of the demo team presenting solutions. In fact, the first day I started at my first firm, I said, all the people that typically do demos, they're traveling and we've got someone coming in this afternoon, so you need to do a presentation of the system. So it was one of those fight or flight moments. Either walk out and go and get another job or I spend the morning trying to learn the system to present it. I obviously took the latter and fortunately for me, I think a lot of luck and good timing in my career has brought me to where I am today. I worked with a firm that brought me to the US 18 years ago. For those of you who didn't realise, I'm not from here. And I came over for two years to Massachusetts, went back to the uk. My wife and I looked at each other within about a week of returning and said, we don't want to be here anymore. So we came back 16 years ago. We're based in Connecticut and I'm a US citizen, which is an honor, as I said. Been at Kariba for seven years. I look after our financial services team. I've worked with a few people in the room and yeah, it is a very. Reflecting on it, as I've done the last couple of days. I had a great time in treasury, but really that set me up very nicely to move out of treasury and into what I've been doing for the last 24 years now. So I was about five when I started work.

By the way. Yeah, he uses a lot of moisturizer.

Yeah. Certainly not the stuff he uses.

No. Raquel, over to you.

Hi, everybody. My name is Raquel Alvarez Mateus. I'm the treasurer for Kearney. I've been with Kearney for the last approximately just under two years. And I started my career. I'm not from around here, as you can guess from my accent. I started my career, believe it or not, back in Ireland in 1998, when many US multinational companies were taking advantage of and they were moving European Service Centers and re registering some of the entities in Ireland. I had the opportunity to work for Accenture, Tycoon International, Ingersoll, Rand and Citibank through the agency, Treasury Department. Through all the roles that I had when I was in Ireland, I had, like many of you, started in accounting. But every single role that I have in accounting, I'VE been very focused on within the treasury environment. Within, under the treasury umbrella, it's been netting intercompany, intercompany portfolio, foreign exchange and cash management, large cash pools, managing the intercompany positions. And I think one of my kind of, I'm going to call it breakthrough in my career was my last job in Ireland when I had the opportunity to work for Tycoon International. I was supporting the European treasure to break up the company, a very large conglomerate company in three different companies. My role was analyzing the workflows for those bank accounts to be able to set up the structure of the new three entities that we were going to be creating in the upcoming months. It was for me where it was the breakthrough was working for this person because his high level of integrity, his high level of dedication and his drive. But his passion for treasury it was transmitted on his work and the quality of work that he wanted from his team. From Ireland, I moved to New York, to Manhattan and I had the opportunity to work with KPMG in the advisory Treasury Department and with kpmg I had the opportunity to find out advisory is not for me. But I decided to reach out to my network and through Tyco International had the opportunity to move to Switzerland as a cast manager for one of the split companies that we have. For Tycoon International it was a great opportunity to one learn the experiences of living in a country where you don't speak the language and they don't really want to speak the language. I staying in Switzerland for almost six years and I had the opportunity also to work with Zurich Financial Services. I worked with them for eight months, solidly focused on implementing a forecasting tool globally and helping them with developing and improving their forecast accuracy. At that point my contract with them was over. I moved to what it was at that time. Alaris what is an aluminum company. And I was the deputy of the European treasurer. We were responsible for the forecast bank relationships and very much really focusing on forecast improvement. After two kids we realized, my husband and I, that we wanted to be close to family. With my husband being a US citizen we decided to move to Columbus, Ohio after living in New York, Dublin, Zurich. It's a great country, it's a great place to be close to the family. I took a break of eight miles while we were funding a daycare and it gave me the opportunity to really recharge my batteries and start working for Hexion International. Hexion is a multinational chemical company. I ended staying there for seven years. We through that time in Hexion. We implemented a money market investment program. We went through three divestitures. Three divestitures, one TMS implementation, two ERP upgrades. In 2021, I was lucky enough to be part of the spinoff for a newly created chemical company which is called Bakelite Synthetics. It gave me the opportunity to have a very different role, a very global role. And in 18 months that we have that I. In 18 months we were able to implement a new global relationship with a new bank in eight different countries with Host to Host managing our new ERP system. And in 2022, I was approached by someone in my network and they said, hey, we have this opportunity in Kearney. They're looking to modernize the Treasury Department. And I was like, what's modernized the Treasury Department? Pretty much my responsibility with Kearney is not only automate all the treasury processes, review all the treasury processes, but also it's a huge management change that we are taking place right now. It's been a big change in my career when it comes into the responsibility. I think that there is two very different parts between the automation or and the management chains. It really creates an opportunity for a very strong collaborations internally and really steep learning curve of how to manage those. I'm going to call it unwritten rules that you might have in every single company, which sometimes with a position like mine, working from home, it can be very difficult. It can be the traveling to your headquarters more often than you perhaps anticipated.

Okay, so I'll start with Amy and we're going to talk now a little bit. A lot of these guys here, you're getting your CTP credits for coming here. Well done. That's fantastic. But I wanted to ask each panel member the role that education. You got CTP qualified. You've got everything else here going to Amy, then across to Steve and then across to Rick Hilton. What has. What part has qualifications or education played for you with your career?

I did my ACCA Zone accounting qualification because I thought I should never wanted to be an accountant after the banking crisis. I think it helps because treasury as a governance function does a lot of responsibility with the role. It opened a lot of doors for me. It helps me connect probably with business partners. You can speak the language if you like, but I think that's as far as it goes. If I was hiring somebody, I don't necessarily look for treasury qualifications. I think they're brilliant and I've done some of the ACT certificates and diploma, but I really think it's going back to those three E's like the experience. And working in projects, for example, like a TMS implementation or bank implementation, or even insourcing an acquired company gives you a lot more insight into companies, how they need to work, what you need to be worried about, how you plug everything in. So I think that sort of practical experience is sometimes a lot more valuable.

Than getting the qualifications.

So I left school when I was 18, quite seriously. I got on the train one day, I went to London, because back then you could do this. I went to a job agency, I told them what I was looking for and within 48 hours I had a job. And as I said earlier, I've had a lot of luck and fortune in my career. I've been at the right place at the right time. When the firm I was working for went through multiple acquisitions, because I understood that business quite well, I was able to ride through those changes and that obviously put me on a strong path of knowledge with treasury to allow me to transition to the software side of the house. And I've worked for firms here that at their time were really strong products. I worked for a company called Integrity, which the product still around, it's under another vendor now, but at that time it was a standalone company. And at that point in time, 2000 to 2003, it was the treasury system that everyone was looking for. Frankly, with leaving school at 18, I didn't follow any treasury exams per se. I've just learned along the way, I've retained what I've learned. I've used it, I think, effectively to get where I am today. And I have a passion for what I do, so I think that really helps. You want to go out and help people, advise people and tell them what you've learned over your time. And yeah, I think obviously my experiences may be a bit different to other people.

Yeah. Raquel, you've got your CTP qualified and things, and these people in the room are studying that. What about you?

I'm coming from a very humble background. I helped my father to get his primary school certification when I was in secondary school. I am a strong believer on education. I have two degrees, I have the ctp, I never do the MBA because I didn't have the money to it. Okay. I do believe you need to understand where you are in your career and where do you want to be? And that's a very tough question, especially when you are earlier in your career. Treasury is a very wide industry and you have to decide, do I want to be in mergers and acquisitions? Is this something that I want to Be in derivatives or foreign exchange and then it's for you to decide in which part of that treasury experience or that part of the Treasury I'm going to call it branch. You want to be a CTP when you are early in your career gives you a very good strong point to be actually to have your credentials, to be trust by your employer but also for your potential employers is for me has been giving me the opportunity of very strong networking. The AFP has been giving me the opportunity to participate in the afp, participate in the forums, participate in the local chapters. Something that you don't gain if you don't have those qualifications or you're not a member of it. But you really have to decide which path of your treasury career you want to take and if it's going to be bringing you the value added. I think what I'm totally agree with Amy experience if someone comes to me to interview and they have a ctp, an MBA and a CFA and they are not an effective communicators and they can tell me something great that they have done in their 10 years of their career, it doesn't bring me any comfort is the experience, that capability to be humble and to be learning and to be able to prove yourself that you can continue that development even when things might not be working in your direction. But yeah, I didn't have that opportunity to get a job with no education.

I had some, don't get me wrong.

No, a little bit I come out of the mind just I always have admired, right I always have admired that that options because if you can take a shortcut, if you can get as far you can be knowledgeable and you can be have your credentials and be cred and have a great experience and great career life why you have to study like 10 years but then not everybody can do it. And I think that you have to really do that dissertation of where you are but where you want to.

And Raquel, you bring up an interesting point about networking. I recently interviewed Dana Laidhold, treasurer of NASDAQ and Chris Kocan from Endeavor who did wwe and they were wrapping up the session we did in New York recently and one of the key things they came over said the power of their network was how they got lots of their roles. I did have a word with them saying they've got to stop doing that, they've got to come to me. But aside from that they were actually talking about the power of networking, the power of coming to conferences like this, getting out of your corner office and things like that. I just want to ask Steve and then Amy as well, because a bit there the power of your network, obviously Steve, with Kari, but that without your network you wouldn't be able to do your job. But you know, what's it been like for you, networking throughout your career, would you say?

I think I'll just start from the time I got into software, because spending 14 years in one firm, even though that firm grew drastically in that period, I came out of there thinking, oh, everything works the same everywhere else. It now so much like a brainwashing experience. And I learned very quickly, probably in about my first conversation, that actually treasury doesn't work the same everywhere. And from a networking perspective, I've worked, as I said, with a number of strong vendors in their time. Kariba has obviously been very fortunate to be here seven years, but through that time you meet a whole different gamut of people, from treasury analysts to treasurers to CFOs to sometimes even CEOs. And it gives you the opportunity to understand a lot more from them about what they're looking for, what's brought them to where they are today, what they're looking for from their vendor, what they're looking for from their system. And I think that again, just allows you to absorb the key things that they're telling you and at the same time then you're expanding your network. But, and for me, I've always sought to remember key things about people, whether it's the fact that they have a sport, a sporting interest, the fact that they went to a particular place on holiday, how many kids they've got. Because I just think that's also important, those little tidbits as you go through life, if you ever see them again, an A.S.P. oh, how's so. And are you still playing golf? I think that's just very important. But I think that approach has just helped me build the people, the group of people that I know, which is a big group, not many are close, but obviously they're just all people that you've just had a decent relationship with.

Amy, I think it's critical. I think the treasury world is very small, even in the US like as I worked in Brazil, worked in Belgium, you're meeting people and I've met them along the way again. So I think you have to be very careful. But I do think it's important for sharing experiences, for benchmarking, for challenging banks, challenging providers. Is it true what they're saying? I think we can trust each other. We rely on each other as treasurers. I'm very passionate about the profession. So when I got back to Ireland, I joined the association of Corporate Treasurers again to grow my network. But also I had a chance then to be with my peers because the company I joined was very small. I was the only treasury person. So you get that support as well. I would say definitely for roles, but then also just for education and improving your overall knowledge as well.

And the power of the network. Steve touched on that. Amy did, but all three of you did. I was at the offices of Prior Cashman, the law firm. I'd met the treasurer, actually. He's now COO rather. And originally Chris Paulson, great networker. Now he says he's not. He's wrong. He's brilliant. And what he did was he talks about how he's network through the AFP and everything else. One of the key things that he talked about was when he would meet someone. So when you've been meeting people the past couple of days, he would get someone's business card, have a conversation with them and then the natural next thing I'll go, go off. And he said, yeah, sorry, someone will come over, say, sorry, can you give me a second? And he would just, literally, just like Steve said, the golf board, his daughter's going to Purdue. Okay, I know them a bit, blah, blah, blah. And what he would do is he would follow up and build his network intentionally, not accidentally. And he's a brilliant network. He says, oh, no, I'm not, you are. And you can just see it's a great way to do it. So if you're doing that with some of the people around here, I know we're later on in the conference, but you're still going to see people, maybe follow up with the people you've met. You know, you are going to get sent from Kariba the list of the people that you've met. I reached out to a number of them, say it was great to meet you yesterday. Great. Let's talk about this. Let's follow up, make that effort, because if you don't, what's the point of coming along? So I'm going to push back. I'll start again this time with Raquel. Some of the challenges you face, maybe along the way, some of the hiccups you've been got through them. And then we'll come to Amy and then to Steve just to mix up a bit. So what about yourself? What have you faced? What's the challenge?

You say, I think I have touched a little bit when I went over my career. I think the challenge is you have to surround yourselves with your very strong, close partners. And that doesn't mean company wise. It is important to company wise, but also your family, your spouse, your parents, someone who is going to be giving you that support to help with the household. To allow me to be here for four days with no have to worry that I have the babysitter, the neighbors, my husband and the kids. Very mature. It's essential, right. I think when it comes into your happiness and your. I'm going to call it happiness, your content more in the corporate wide. In the corporate world, you have to make sure that the company has your shared values or you share the same values and principles that the company has. And I think that when there is differences vary, deep differences, that's where there is the conflict of how much or how long do I have to be here to make my career worth it. I think that when you look into your, I'm going to say your work life balance, you have to look into your like at a table with four pillars, you look into their company, you look into your family and your network, you look into yourself. And if anything falls apart, any of those areas falls apart, you're gonna be. You're gonna be limping, right? And you can only do it for one, for a very short period of time. And I think how you overcome is literally decided what needs to be a priority, what's truly important for you and what area you are not willing to compromise. And I think that will give you the opportunity to say yes. That's how you're.

Amy, I would say Miguel and I did have some conversations about this. You can meet some interesting personalities along the road where you might necessarily be aligned.

Steve here we'll talk about other.

But where you're not necessarily aligned or where you interview for a role and you take on a role and it's not turning out the way you thought it might. You're not getting the development or the opportunity to implement what you know. So I would see that one of the challenges I had and I suppose the decisions around leaving Johnson was because I was in that holding pattern. So you want to progress your career. And I'd done the international rotations, but a lot of people had also done it. And I think what we find in treasury, it's getting a little bit better. People will typically stay in a role for maybe 20, 30 years. So you just have to take that decision. Are you going to stay or are you going to go? So I think for me, the challenges then try and turn them into Decision points. Right. Just to simulate what's happening. What am I going to do with this information and how do I pivot? I just move on to the next chapter.

Yeah. Steve, what's the question again?

I'm just kidding.

So he's very short of memory.

It's my age.

Yeah.

So I think some of the ladies on the leaders panel this morning talked about it as well, that there are times in your life where you doubt yourself, where you think, actually, I don't think I can do this when you're asked to do something work wise, I don't think I can do this when you're asked to do something personally or you expected to do something personally. And I think as you frankly get older, you learn to cope with these things a lot more because you've got a family network, you've got a network of people you work with or have worked with. Again, building up a network as you talk about. And I think you have the chance again, as you mature to just reflect on what you've done and how you've got to where you've got to actually realize that I can get through this. And as I said, when I first started in software, on the very first day I was asked to do a demo. So it was like, do I leave or do I stay? And it just came down to the fact that I thought, you know what? I'm going to know more about this product in half a day than the people that are getting the demo will. So just gotta go with it. But, yeah, I think we all doubt ourselves from time to time and you just have to lean on your experiences.

To get you through it. I think I talked to the amma earlier. I talked to Amy in particular about it. So I speak. I'll be speaking this year and. But Raquel will be on the panel at Chicago Windy City Summit. Fantastic conference. In my 14th year of going there. We're about three or four years ago, stepped out one of the sessions. We halfway through and I was trying to get people just like Steve said there about that fight or flight. And you guys in the audience might experience it. Sometimes you might get invited to be on a panel and the answer is yes, not oh, think about it. Maybe get on that panel. Get out of your own way. Get out of your. Because. And I stood there in front of this audience in Chicago and I said, guys, the funny thing is I hate public speaking. They're, oh, yeah. I said, no, I don't enjoy it. I said, why would I decide to stand in front of essentially a Group of strangers, talk through LinkedIn, talk through this. The reason was because the only way I was going to expand my network, grow my business was to get out of my way. And now, 14 years later, I'll be speaking again, this time at AFP for the fourth year in a row. I don't know why they keep inviting me to show up. That's free boost. But joking aside, you actually get there and you just like these guys have done is just go for it. What's the worst that can happen? It's. Yeah, it's going through that now. Don't want to run out of time. We're going to go to Q and A in about another five minutes. But other areas, I don't know whether motivation or workplace. Which do you guys prefer?

Motivation.

Okay, we're doing motivation, Steve. Motivation.

What.

How do you keep yourself motivated and if you are, say, your younger self, which is a long time ago.

Yeah, I vaguely remember.

But for this audience as well, how do they keep themselves motivated? What advice are you going to get? Professional?

I think the advice I'd give, and it may sound quite straightforward and simplistic, is you have to enjoy what you do to stay motivated. You have to have a genuine interest, whether it is seriously doing reconciliations and finding the errors. You just have to have that hook into it that you really want to stay involved, that you getting out of bed in the morning is something you want to do because you want to for, in my case, get on that plane, as I did this week, to come here, leaving home at 3:15 on Monday morning, because I wanted the chance to come here. I wanted the chance to experience Kariba live again, get to meet customers, get to meet prospects, get to network. And I've never lost that over the years. I don't believe. And that's really just what kept me going.

Raquel, you have to be happy. I'm Spanish. I believe that work is part of your life. You don't leave to work and is essential. You have to get up from the morning and you have to have that motivation. Many of the changes that I have done in my career has been because I wanted that excitement, that new opportunity, being uncomfortable, learning new things. Exactly the same reason why I took my role two years ago. I wanted a challenge. I didn't want to deal with supply chain with a ship from Netherlands to South Africa. I didn't want to deal with anything like that. I wanted to deal with something that is going to be bringing me some really big, strong learnings in my career. This stage of My career. But it's also going to be bringing a lot of value added to a company. It is important that when you close the computer at home in the evening, you're saying, I have accomplished something, I have learned something. If you get to the point where there is one day or one week when you close the computer and you haven't learned anything, just call mine. Think twice about your career because that means that you are in a little bit of a spiral situation where you might not be really developing yourself, but the question will be, are you developing yourself or are you being compartmental on that position? And it's you who is in charge, fully in charge of your career. It's not the CFO who puts the objectives at the beginning of the year and then you have the midterm reviews and so forth. It really is you where you want to be, but how you want to get there.

I'd say if you have any inclination at all to do something, just go for it. Because there's obviously some little voice in there that's saying that maybe you should give it a try. And I think the worst thing that can happen is you just pivot back to where you were or go a different path. So I think owning your own path and development as well and just asking for what you want, it can sometimes be difficult. Right. You don't want to seem too needy or people like that sort of imposter piece. I mightn't be able to do this, but just ask.

We're going to come out to the audience in a minute for some questions, just to wrap up this bit before we go to Q and A. And then we're going to do some takeaways for everyone because I don't want to run to time. The world has changed. The world of work. Hybrid, working from home. We've got to ask it. We don't need to spend too long on it. Some of the sessions I've done before, we spend 15, 20 minutes now. We're getting used to it. It's a new way of working. I'll go from Amy, then across Steve and then Raquel. And what I was going to ask is, what was it before now? And how do you then manage that teams or however their structured sort of thing. So Amy first I would say when.

I joined J and J, I was traveling a lot. It was like a commuter role nearly. So you could say it was hybrid already because you're dialing into certain calls at the moment. We are hybrid. So we can do a couple of days in the Office, a couple of days at home. But for carrier, my current role, we're actually building out a new team. It's a new treasury center in Dublin. So we actually. There's a great energy in the team, which is fantastic. But we're coming into the office a lot more and we're learning from each other and getting to know each other, which I think is important as well. But for me, because I have a global team, I have to make it work remotely. It's just fitting your structure to what you're trying to achieve, I would say.

Steve here.

Yeah, I joined Caribbean, as I said, seven years ago, and I've always worked remotely. Although obviously there's times when you go to the offices, there's times when you travel, there's times when you meet colleagues, and all of my team work from home as well. If you told me eight years ago that I'd be working from home, I would have thought no, you have to be in the office to network, to meet people, to interact, to get things done. And I think definitely, certainly with COVID obviously everyone was pushed into that environment as well. But as long as you. As long as I maintain contact with people and again, from a socializing perspective, you understand what they're up to and what's going on in their private lives as well as the work side. So you keep it human. I think the whole remote piece works well and I think as what many people have done certainly since the pandemic, is we make sure you have a dedicated space if you are working. So. Sounds a bit weird, but I live in the basement from about 8 till 6 every day. I sometimes come up for air. I don't have any. I don't even know if it's sunny or raining because I don't have any natural light. But that's where I work best. If I come upstairs in the kitchen and my wife's out and I'm standing at the kitchen table trying to work, I'm distracted.

Doesn't work. Yeah. Raquel.

Yeah, I personally love working from home. Is giving me the opportunity to have breakfast with my kids every morning with. Well, the time that I moved here to the States for over seven years. I can count with pretty max, very low numbers. The number of days that I had breakfast with my kids because I had one and a half hour commute every day. I cannot put price on having breakfast with them, having that conversation, that 5 minutes, 10 minutes conversation and say goodbye and have a good day and give them a kiss. I have a global position. I don't expect any of my team members to go to the office. I have one in Chicago, one in upstate New York with three kids under five, and the other one in London. I personally don't care where they work. I just want the world. I want people to be productive to drive their careers because their success is based on my success. I think that there is. You have to understand also where you are in your career, what companies asking you for it. Right. If you are very early in your career, those connections, those being those. I call it the ice cooler or water cooler. Conversations in the office might be really productive to people to know who you are when you have different perspective, when you are a different stage in your career, when you have been longer in that company where everybody knows you, you might don't have to be there, but it has to be working for every single period and for every single team member.

Okay. Have we got any burning questions or we can ask them afterwards? You can particular. Yep. Give me a second. There you go. Mm. We want to run to time, so talk quick.

All right.

So.

Hi, fellow basement dweller. Here, sun lamp. You should try it.

I do. I have a. It's called a happy lamp.

Yeah, yeah, I got that.

Yeah.

So coming to this conference and meeting other people in other types of treasury organizations, I'm learning a lot about how other teams are run, whereas my team is very narrow. Cash management focus. How would you recommend someone who's early in their treasury career to get exposure to other elements of treasury that you might not have the opportunity to in your role?

Who's going to go? Raquel, you go first. I'll get there. You go.

I think if that is part of your team, it's really. You drive that exposure, you're going to be driving them to be exposed to other teams to work your internal network on your capability to say, I want to make sure that I keep these employees because they are really worth it and I want to make sure that they have that exposure. Internal rotations are great, but what I want to ask you is that. And it's a rhetorical question, does your team members want to have that exposure to. It's important, right? You don't want to. The more exposure they have, the better. You can bring the horse to the water, but you can't force them to drink. And I think that you have to that because everybody is in different stages in career now. These events are essential and especially if you have the opportunity to bring some of your team members with you to make them aware, to help them to know how to network, to introduce them to different individuals. For me, it's very easy. I have known Mike for over 20 years. The same with Steve. I. It's easy for me to introduce people to other people and it's essential. But I think that I will look a little bit on your capabilities and your role as a leader, not as a manager, as a leader to helping them to.

Yeah. Amy, I'll just go quickly to you.

Because I'd say if it's like outside of treasury or like within your treasury team assessment. Yeah, I think stretch assignments, if you've got things. We used to go through a situation, for example, you'd have annual borrowing limits and it was all hands on the deck to give people help out. So those little stretch assignments, I think every now and then. And I know budgets can sometimes be tight, but I think similar to what Rick Raquel said, events like this, but also like banks tend to host free events and system providers. So I think just encouraging them to do that and to sit and talk to others.

Steve, any words or go to takeaways?

Yeah. I'll just say if you're looking to evolve within your organization and you've got the opportunity, then make it known that's what you want. So almost put together your mini little career path of where you'd like to go, talk to your boss about it, see if they support it, see if you got a timeline around it. And that's obviously the company and your manager supporting you on that journey. If you're not getting what you want, then obviously there are different options, Mike included. So, yeah, I think if you want something, you've got to go for it. But obviously you know your own environment, so you've got to go about that in the best way you feel is the right approach. So.

So the panelists have got some great takeaways. And before we get thrown out the room, you can hear it going there. We've done the questions. Raquel, you're first on this. Maybe just a couple of them. What?

One of the things I'm only gonna. Because we are at time, I'm gonna say practice who you want to be and create your own opportunities. You have to get uncomfortable. You have to create your own career path. Okay. You. It's for you. If you try to go for a weekend away, you quite likely gonna be spending hours booking your hotel, looking for restaurants, looking for this. But you are not spending that time the equivalent that you will spend for a weekend. You're not spending it like doing it and managing your career and if you think about this, it's a little bit ironic, right, because we are spending seven hours on a daily basis working and we should be able. The ones that we are managing that time.

Yeah.

We have to create our own opportunities. We have to be able to produce, give our product, give our presence, but also making sure that we have something that I can show to my supervisor or to my internal network and say, I have done this. I think I can do this. And if someone approach you, as Mike said, if someone approach you and say, I think that you could be good doing this, don't say no, because they already believe on you. Yeah, they already do. It's really up to you to get uncomfortable and do that journey.

So there you go, Steve, with that great shirt again.

Did I say that, Mike? Yeah, I'll just add to that, actually, just a couple of things I said. I think you've got to enjoy what you do, and it might. It doesn't mean you're going to wake up every morning with a big smile on your face thinking, oh, I'm the best thing in the world. But you've got to, in essence, enjoy what you do and feel you're in the right place. Obviously, we all got to go through change. The other thing that I think has dawned on me in the last few years is that you've really got to appreciate the people you get the chance to work with, because everyone's a character, no one's perfect, but it's the people you meet along the way that's important.

Amy?

Yeah, they're very wordy. I would say one of the main ones. Yeah. I would suggest even just developing your own career and your own experiences, try and get yourself into meetings. So invite yourself to other team meetings, like a CFO meeting turn up with a boardroom meeting. Just be there.

Yeah.

A silent observer, because you'll get to hear how the business is thinking, what's their strategy? How do they think? What's front of mind for them. But I think, as treasury, we are a relationship role. I think that's where the role is going to go. You need to be a good business partner, so you're going to learn more as well about what they want from you. And it's with the networking and trying to get the prospective clients, you just get that little nugget and that in to develop that relationship.

So. So the first thing, well done for being here today. So in a minute, you're going to give these guys a round of applause. That's also for you. It's so Much easier. Just say, oh, I'll just catch up with the videos, get my credits and everything else. You've actually made the effort to come here. I know it's Vegas, there are other tables out there, but your risk management skills would look at those. We talked about connection, talk about taking notes, but follow up with everyone. Why don't you've got all these? We will be having these unavailable for people, but this is about that. This is where it starts, not where it finishes. You just get on the plane tonight, go home and say, oh, thank goodness that's over, then it's your waste. So give them a big round of applause, please, these lovely people. Thanks for tuning into another great episode. You really enjoy it. Thank you very much. You make it worthwhile, us recording them with these amazing treasury professionals right the way across the world, from the us, across uk, across Europe, and there's lots more exciting guests to come and lots more live events. We love delivering this content. We get asked now, is this what you do? Do you just do content? You just do. No. The reason we do the content is to get to know you guys, to give you back the tips for success, if you like. But we're here to help you hire someone. If you need to recruit, call us. Because at our heart, we are a Treasury recruitment company. That's how we pay the bills, that's how we pay for the podcast and that's what we're passionate about. We hear from you at events and things. Can we also help you find your next great role? Can we help you hire? The answer is yes, that's exactly what we do. Yes. We do our treasury salary survey@treasurysalary.com that helps us know exactly how to benchmark not only your salary, but also when you're looking to hire. We know exactly what the market is paying. Wherever you might be, whether it's the us, UK or Europe, we want to make sure that we are the best informed, that we're not just finger in the air. We always know. If you want to hire the best in treasury, don't hesitate to contact us. Go onto the website treasuryrecruitment.com or in the US, you can contact Joe Grabowski. Europe, contact the lovely Katie. For more senior roles and roles across the uk, reach out and contact me or drop any of us an email. Joe@treasuryrecruitment.com Katie at treasuryrecruitment.com or Mike at treasuryrecruitment.com Let us help you make the hiring process as amazingly seamless and easy as our podcasts are to listen to. Thanks for your amazing support and looking forward to seeing you at either an event or a conference very soon. Or just give me a call. Let's help you find the next role or recruit the next Treasury Professional. All right, until next week, many thanks.