Treasury Recruitment Company Update, April 2023

Foreign.

Welcome to our monthly feature episode. This is where like we do a quick recap of last month and what's coming up for you guys because we noticed a while back that you wanted to know more, you wanted to know who'd been on the show. Maybe you've missed an episode or two. Make sure you subscribe, please make sure you follow and then you'll get notification so it tells you exactly when you know the episodes are out. And the some great ones. This past month we had Roger Aquilar, we had the amazing Mike Richards. Oh sorry, that's me. Yeah, but I was chatting to Richard Postock. We were talking about Richard and I. We caught up again a two or three conversation on the podcast. This was about how treasury recruitment is now post pandemic and how it's going to the future. So we had a really nice chat. Kept that nice and short and sweet. So good one there. Dennis Balju from Vanderlander, hi Bramer from Autodocs. Some really good podcast this month. Really enjoyed that. Go back there. We've then coming up we've got Royston Dacosta, amazing assistant treasurer at Ferguson, very technology focused guy. Speaks at lots of conferences about it but he's a really great friend as well to the business. So known Royston for many years. That's a nice one to catch up with him. And we have Jean Furter from Poly over in on the west coast of the US Got some really interesting views. Actually Jean Puerto was the one that said in a few years time that only 10% of treasurers will still be in the same job. The point was he was saying the same job because the job is evolving so much in March and April. Well let's we've got our treasury career corner live but before that we got a virtual webinar with myself, Katie and Craig. Click on the link in the show notes that will take you to the virtual webinar. You register for that. The three of us are going to talk about hybrid working. I don't know if anyone's coined that phrase before, but it's all the rage. But what you guys are going to do is get to hear from the three of us where you know, we're talking about each of our markets that we focus on. Craig's going to focus on UK a little bit more. Katie's going to give some of you from Europe and I'll, you know, focus in a bit more on the US as I'm doing a lot more focus there. We'll talk about how virtual working has Taken off. Then on the Thursday I'm interviewing Tanya Holden from Ocado and Matt Norris from Trillium Flow. We will record that session so we'll get to listen to that later stage. But straight after that, getting on the plane, heading off to Texas for the texpo conference which really looking forward to catching up with some other clients and candidates. It was not last minute, been bubbling away for a while, but the guys in the office said, guys, we're so busy in Texas, you've got loads of roles on you, look, talking to lots of candidates. I went, right, that was on the Thursday, came in on the Monday, right. I bought my ticket, bought my plane, bought my Airbnb. I'm off. So looking forward to seeing everyone in Texas. The reason for doing that is to actually meet people, not to be just whack an advert on LinkedIn. Wait for people. I know some of our rivals do that in particular, they just say, oh yeah, we'll take your job on. They're just a LinkedIn posting service. They don't know the candidates they're putting forward to you. They're just filtering for you. And that's fine if you want to pay a full fee for that, carry on. But if you actually want a service where we actually help you, we get to know the candidates, we interview them and actually get a service and pay for that, then send us your details. So as a text bow. And then a month later, Windy City Summit, Chicago. Actually speaking first thing in the morning. So going to be enjoying that Tuesday on the first day means I can relax for the rest of the conference. Hopefully I'll have had a strong enough coffee to give you a decent session on that Tuesday. I mean it's crazy. So we'll actually put a link to this because it's our roadshow. And then doing an AFP webinar about achieving career success with Leanne Perkins and Joel Campbell that's again recorded. You will be able to go on to that one. We won't be able to repost it, but actually you can go onto the session. So sign up for that then later on in the year. I've got Katie on the line with me. She's going to get to quiz me in a minute. We're heading off to sunny, sunny Barcelona, aren't we Katie, for Euro Finance?

We are, yeah.

What are you looking forward to there? Because you know, with the European desk and stuff?

Well, I think it's just meeting with a different market of Canada. Last year we had great success following Euro Finance out in Austria. So I'm hoping that Barcelona will prove as productive and obviously, hopefully the sun will still be shining. I won't be clocking up as many air miles as you, though.

No, no. And what we will be doing, just to let you guys know that, listening, we will also be adding, actually before that, one thing I noticed missing, I will be actually in New York the month before that doing T money. And we've been confirmed as a speaker there, going to be interviewing the amazing Modesty Johnson from Streamland and Steve Rosenthal from Broadridge. And we're going to be talking to those guys about their hybrid working and how they actually manage it in a practical sense. So two amazing treasurers. That's in New York. Then you got Barcelona. I think it was going to add about Barcelona. Again, if anyone's worried about the LinkedIn photos, we're going to have a photographer. And then after that, just found out just the past few days. That's right. Going to be in AFP San Diego and leading one of the sessions there again. This time we're going to be talking to another couple of treasury practitioners about the hybrid working. But what we're doing is actually talking about practical tips from actual corporate treasury practitioners about how do they manage it, because that's what everyone's asking. Oh God, I've got a team now that it started to be the norm. Now they're realizing, yeah, it might be the norm. It's a bit of a challenge, you know, got to manage these guys. Some of them. 30% of my team are in the office, 30% are 100% remote and the other 40% sitting in between are actually in the office, sometimes out the office. How do we manage this? You know, how do we have a cohesive group and everything else. Again, that's one of the things we can talk on our virtual webinar in a couple of weeks time. Katie and I and Craig tune in for those. Katie, I know that you were going to get your own back and this is, I'm a bit of a theme, a bit this questions and some of the stuff that has come up from candidates that you've been asked and clients and you know, in the past couple of months you've got this also from Craig and also some input from me and the team. What do you want to know?

Well, I think your kind of whistle stop tour leads me into the question that I think most of the listeners will want to know is, you know, what are the current hiring trends in treasury recruitment at the moment? The USA is booming.

Yeah. Well, The USA is booming, although it's booming at the operational level. So the US market is busy, but it's still this recruit to replace a little bit. There aren't new roles coming to market there say someone has left. I think actually hybrid has had a big effect on this and let me put that in context. So we had pre pandemic, everyone was in the office then, 100% working from home. A number of treasurers, maybe in the latter stage of their career, are now being asked to come back in. Now maybe that's for two, three, four days a week sometimes. Look, I just worked 100% from home. Why do I need to come in? I could work remotely like nobody. You've got a team to manage, you've got to give input, you've got to coach and train and things like that. I'm done, I'm out. And that's where I'm actually. I'm seeing those replacement of those more senior roles. There will be more development in the market over there, but that's taking its time. Gotta say, it's been a slower quarter. We. We did find that back last year we had, you know, coming out pandemic. We all three of us were particularly busy in the entire team. We were like really bang out busy. But it seems to slowed quite a lot. What's Europe been like, Katie, for you?

It has been much slower, the word, sort of sluggish, to get things going. Literally in the last week, suddenly it changed and things are coming through. I think, as you've mentioned, it is very much the operational side of things. I would say in Europe specifically, it's more sort of the junior to mid manager level. That seems to be demand at the moment, which I guess has changed a bit over time. I don't know if you found that that's kind of changed in the other markets as well.

There's a bit. Just look, if we look at the UK market and Craig and Sophie and what they've been focusing on, Sophie's been very busy operationally, so lots of treasury analyst roles, treasury managers and things like that. Craig and I, where we work, you know, jointly on some of the treasurer roles we've had. In fact, he's just finishing off with two treasurer positions. It's been interesting there what the clients have wanted. They not only wanted the basics and let's call that Cash fx, Risk management with one client in particular was saying, oh, well, what treasury management system? We don't have one. Do you want one? Oh, yes, we do and we will have one. But that's not my job, said the cfo. They said, you know. She said, no, this is what I want the treasurer to do. We know that we need it and as we grow, when we're developing, that's exactly what this person is going to bring in and do. We've also had that from another client. They're just doing a bit of a reorganization, so there will be a treasurer position there, which we're going to help them with. Again, they need to look at their current treasury management system that isn't fit for purpose. Now, they're not looking for Treasury IT experts. What they're looking for is practical treasury knowledge and going, do you know what, you know, that's fit for purpose. We don't need this super duper, you know, Rolls Royce of a system. We can actually just do with this system that's more of a. Not a Ford Fiesta, but somewhere in between, you know, a bit of a. I don't know, whatever. And in between. I don't want to be too car. Car centric, but, you know, a decent system that will give us visibility over a cache, most importantly, visibility over risk, both FX and general interest rate, risk management, everything else. So one of the key things there, and I think that leads in. I know that you were going to ask me the key challenges, Katie, that some of the treasury professionals are facing, and I think that's one of the key ones I was scribbling on my notepad this morning. When you're looking for the next role and when you are starting to see some positions that are coming out, I think it's focusing on people's pain points. What I mean by that is, if you're going for a role and you're applying for it, a lot of people just sending their cv, boom. Here you go, here you go, here's my cv. I'm perfect for it. Well, really, why? What are my pain points as a client now, either? If they ask for a cover letter, great, that actually helps. I'm not saying that cover letters are the best thing. When they're generic cover letters, they're worthless. But when they're tailored cover letters and you can see a company. I had this a couple of years ago with the US client and I said, look, you're looking for this role for a company that's a spin off from a large pharmaceutical. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, great, so why couldn't they promote from within? And he looked at the team, we looked over it on LinkedIn and saw that there was no natural Successor, the treasurer had left and obviously they were trying to get their senior treasury manager up to that level, but there was a massive gap. I said, so probably they want some training, don't they? Oh, yeah, I think they might do. I said, right, so you've done training with two. I've done training globally, Mike. I've led workshops, I've done this. I said, this is fantastic. Where is it on your cv? Well, it's somewhere down. It was on, like, page two or three. You shouldn't have a page three anyway. But it said more than that. Let's bring that to the top. Let's make some three key points, you know. And then this was the first time also that they had independent banking relationships. I said, so you've set up, Mike, I've done global cash pooling. Right the way across. I mean, yeah. Where does it say that? And again, it was buried at bottom of page one. I said, just bring out two or three of the key points and literally sent it through. He was called that day for an interview and he said, I've applied for nearly over one that stage. He'd applied for over a hundred jobs. He said, that's the first time someone's called me that day. Do you know why? Because you made it easy for them to phone you, you focused on their pain points, you had their paracetamol and things go on.

Katie, would you say that best advice for individuals who are looking for a role is to really tailor their cover letter and their CV to those pain points, to really get them to the top of the pile theme for an interview?

Yeah, I agree, but I think the problem is people say, well, I'm time poor on this. Yeah, if you're between roles, yeah, you might have a bit more time, but I think what you do, you don't apply for 25 jobs, apply for the top five, apply for the top one first of all, and then the number two and then the number three, the ones that appeal to you. And each of those, just a bit of tailoring. You can have some templates and things like that, but each time you're going to identify the top factors that are a pain point for a client. And that's what we do. That's where we. A lot of the time I've got a call with a client later on in New York. We've got really interesting role. I can see exactly the position, but I know the client and I know what his pain points are. So I can say, look, I can give you 50 resumes, but what are the two or three things that you're going to want from this person. Katie has a great thing. What does the first 90 days look like or the first three months in a role and things? What indicates success? I'm going to totally steal that question and I'm going to use that later because that's front of mind. That's. God, yeah, this, I've got this problem. If we can help them solve that in the first quarter and then, then you can do all the interesting stuff in Q2, Q3 and everything else. So that's the thing. Those are the tips I would give sort of thing. What other questions? I know you had some others on you.

Would that be the consistent response? We know that your podcast the Treasury Career Corner Featured now over 260 treasury professionals at that more senior level. Based on the conversations you've had with those experts, would you say there are specific skill sets or qualities that would make them successful within the treasury industry?

Yeah, I mean the people that I talk to are already successful treasurers. That's one of the things that they are at top of their game. You know, each and every week I ask the top two or three tips and we're actually going to do a bit of a summary of some of those about how have they got to where they are. We get all sorts of responses. So we get about oh I studied or you know, I'd encourage all my team to study and things. And then they get curiosity, you know, don't be afraid to go and ask questions and things. We get other responses like get out into the business and you know, make sure that you're invaluable to all different parts of the business, not just treasury in its ivory tower, in its niche, in its, you know, corner office and things like that. But we had a very interesting conversation, just a pre chat today with a, an upcoming guest, Bryce, who was I'm going to see speak to in a couple of weeks time. And one of the key things he's talked about, he said it's funny when everything's going along swimmingly, no one calls us. No, because everything's swimmingly. So you're part of a well oiled machine and everything else he said but as soon as anything goes wrong goes a sort of bit dysfunctional or a, you know, Silicon Valley bank went pop, you know, and then Credit Suisse, you know, that there was takeover and everything else. He said it was like the bat phone in the corner, the lights up with that light back in the day was like Bing. He said it lit Up. Where are we? Where are these cash burns? What's this? Where's this? Because that's where treasury proves its worth. And actually why to him was I one of the previous crises before? Because we've been going 21 years, this isn't our first rodeo. You know, we've been there a few times before. Treasurers have been there, done it, seen it, got the T shirt, got the box of shorts, worn them, washed them a few times, got another shirt. It revolves. And there's cycles around things and one of the key things there is that the spotlight is coming onto treasury now because, you know, there are certain crises and things. Or are we going to hit recession? Oh, you know, treasury, let's talk to treasury, they'll know all about this and then as things calm down, the spotlight will go off Treasury a little bit, maybe onto sales and marketing and they'll drift away. But it's still there. But it's about how. And I've got this article that I wrote and I'm going to refresh it, but I'm going to keep some of the old wording and say this is what I wrote before and this, you know, what's changed, what's evolved and actually very little has changed per se. Yes. Now the tools have evolved and the ways that we handle it have got better, but in actual fact it's still the same tasks. Yes, we deal with them in a quicker way, better way and better tools, but there are still the same issues, keep rearing their head sort of thing.

One of the things that leads me into the next question is around what you said about sort of the current state of the world. At the moment, within the top three questions that we get asked on a day to day basis is there are people that are looking to negotiate a higher salary within their current job. How much room do employers typically have to adjust their office in, in the current climate?

Go back a little bit and actually look at say this person were to leave. And that's one of the things. So say you're going to, you're looking yourself, you're going to your boss to try and negotiate a higher pay. You're saying that you're going to give me my typical 3% pay rise. Really? How much have I proved myself now? One of our previous treasurers a while back, he said to me that his boss, his boss's boss said, look, keep a little diary if you would. Not how much money you've saved made the firm, but also how much money you've saved the firm because it's not just about making cash. We said you've implemented this, this system. It's then saved this money man hours across the berm in the UK but in Europe and in Asia and then this above. And when he totaled it all up, just some guesstimates he was able to go through and he kept on doing that on an iterative basis and he eventually they looked at it and his contribution only gets paid in the hundreds of thousands but in actual fact his contribution was in the millions, tens of millions of what they'd done as a team globally. It wasn't just him but his contribution, leadership and everything else. It made it much easier when he was then asking for can you review my salary now? He also used our amazing salary survey treasurysalary.com go take part. All of you guys listening should be part of this. Just coming up on 1200 other treasury professionals are now amazing. We run it every quarter. Someone said to me the other day so do you run it once, once a year? No, every quarter. So actually everything. Yes. And we get everyone that's any more than three months old to update their information and keep on doing it. And they went that's incredible. Yeah, that's why we've automated it. It's amazing. And it's a tool that you can keep using it. Oh wow. Does that cost me? No, all it cost you is the two minute sakes to take part. That's why I go on a balance get so passionate because it's such a thing of value, particularly in this situation you're wanting to prove yourself in the market. Where do I sit? I was interviewed by a couple of compensation analysts for a large corporate the other day. Had to be careful not to say where. But they were saying our treasurer, a global treasurer is. Is on the average. Said yeah, you're exactly right, they are exactly on the average. And their bonus? Exactly on the average. And they in fact slightly above average there. Oh yeah. I said would you say you're an average company? And they were well, no, we're a global multinational, one of the leading in the world. So you're not an average company, you're one of the top companies. Yes. Do you not be in the top quartile? You're paying right in the middle, you've got. And would you say they're an average treasurer? And I was using it not just in the phrase of average salary, but they're pretty average. No, but they've been with us. They're outstanding, they're rated like this on all our scales. Okay, but You've got an outstanding treasurer, but that you're paying them an average salary. Yeah. And it was like there was sort of some nervousness from the two of them because they weren't at treasury. And I just thought, say this because it's true. I said the cost of replacing them and we went through the salary package and things and you can see some of these numbers. I think they were. We were looking around, it was sort of mid-2002 in euros for this person and things like that. And I said, look, if I was to replace that person, I would have to. It would start with a 3. And they were like, oh, right. I said, yeah. And that's where. Is that where you were betraying them? And. Well, yeah, we probably. I said, so if you replace this person, you have to replace them at €300 plus. Yes, that's what I would say to you. That's fine. If you want to, they can leave. And then when you come back to me. And also on top of that, I'll be charging my fee to go and find them because it's going to be a tough search to find that above average treasurer that you want me to replace them with. I would just give them the pay rise they're asking for. Gobsmack. When I. When I went back through the numbers and yes, they get all the other bits, you know, they've got long term bonus, long term equity and stuff. That's not what I was talking about. Pay the person what they're worth today, not tomorrow.

One of the other things that has come up, and again, you did mention it earlier, that I think people have lacerated with hearing it, and that is hybrid working, which does come up, if not first. But the second question that we get asked by candidate clients as well. There was a recent comment made by one of our rival recruiters that hybrid working hasn't really taken off necessarily in Treasury. I think it's probably fair to say that we would say that that's an inaccurate statement. What are your thoughts behind that?

I'd like to say inaccurate, but I'd call it total BS and call it exactly what it is. I think the guy's an idiot. He doesn't think maybe his clients, some of the people he's dealing with, are saying, no, five days a week back in the office. You're an idiot. We have clients that say to us, we had a client back last year, they said, we're quite traditional. We. We're five days a week back in the office. Why, like, why are you. Five days a Week back in the office. Oh, because that's just our company culture. And we found that only I think, at that stage, and that was the most. The salary survey we did at the time was like 5% of people said they wanted to be back in the office five days a week to 1 in 20 people. And they said, oh no, we're happy for you to recruit for us. And we look, hang on. So we go to 100 people and five of them say they want to be back in the office. Yeah, well, we'll look at those five. No, we're not interested in, Sorry, we can't help you. Because why am I going to go to a hundred people and then five of them say, yeah, we might be interested. It also then didn't help that they said, oh, we're quite a traditional company. We do a lot of things paper based. Sorry, we can't help you. We thought, you know, what. Yeah, you know, go back to the ice age. You know, it's like that this hybrid working thing was just ridiculous because hybrid is the way. I was guilty of this. I made this comment on a video recently that when it used to be flexible working pre pandemic, you know, if someone had come and said, I want flexible working, what can you do for me? It was because we, I think in some ways we weren't set up for it, weren't used to using zoom. You know, that wasn't a prevalent thing at the time. You know, back a few years ago, I've had to get out of my, you know, I've dethawed myself and yeah, I'm 100% happy. You know, I'm doing this podcast in, you know, the podcast studio, AKA the shed at the bottom of the garden, working remotely. This morning I'm doing that. Then I'll be into the office this afternoon and then, you know, I'll be across Europe, a couple of these conferences. I'll be able to work just as I would, you know, just as effectively and stuff like that, it doesn't matter. And for that guy to say, oh yeah, no, we don't do. The people aren't doing hybrid working. What? Really, you know, it's, it's. The first question is what's the job? Second question from most candidates, even before salary is what's the hybrid balance? Because also that gives an indication to culture. And I know that you and I are going to do this on the virtual webinar. Katie, I mean, going back to you just with a question, with a question. You, you've been recruiting a Lot of roles in Europe. What is the feedback been from those guys? I know that Craig was talking to a client just yesterday and he was starting to talk to them. He said, oh, can I just ask this question quite early on in the comment, what's your, what's your culture? You know. Oh, yeah, actually we're only in two days a week maximum and all right. I said, yeah, usually we try and all be in one day a week and that's when we organize all our team meetings and try and get together as a team, have a bit of cohesion and actually that's now bleeding into two days in a good way. They said, you know, if we can't do that, but we try and be here. And I think it was like Tuesdays and Wednesdays, Thursdays that we're doing a lot of meetings out of the office or, you know, not coming in the office. Mondays and Fridays, very task focused, getting stuff done. What with European clients, is it similar or different or what's been happening?

Perfect. I think I've said this before that in Europe they have always embraced a lot further into hybrid working and flexible working than the UK market has traditionally. I would say pretty much all of my clients have got the balance between sort of two to three days in the office and the rest working from home. I think one, a lot of the times when I've spoken to clients there is trying to find that right balance so that they don't lose the culture. Cause inevitably people want a certain culture, they move to certain values, they move to certain cultures as well as the role and the, and the salary. Which is why, similarly to what Craig has said, they have a day that. That is when everybody is in the office so that they can do sort of team building, team lunches and things like that. The split is very much three days in the office. Well, two to three days in the office and the rest working from home.

And it's an interesting one. Well, we'll cover more of Hybrid on the virtual webinar, so sign up for that. We'll put that link in the show notes and anyone listening today? Yeah, just go there. It'd be great. You get to see the three of us. Sorry, got to face the radio. But you'll actually see me on video and kind of everything. We love the touch up filter on. Don't worry, like Mickey Mouse, I'll do something. And the only other closing one was a short. I had a really great conversation with a chap in Texas actually, just this, this week, and a shout out to him I can't say exactly who, but he's in the later stages of an interview process. And he said, mike, can we. Can we have a chat? I'd like your advice. Absolutely fine. He's like, sure, you're very busy. I went, I know I'm busy, but what was going to be busy, mate? And it was like. But I gave. We were giving him some advice and he's in the latter stages of an interview process and he just wanted an outside advisor's input. And I love doing it. You know who you are. Listener. He said, look, I'm potentially going to go and be the head of treasury for this company and assisting another guy who's current head of treasury come in, and then the two of us going to work and everything else. I said, look, just to have a little bit of a look back over this history of this treasury team. We weren't on LinkedIn and there were some positives. The pros were that the CFO has a Treasury background. And I think that definitely helps. You know, on a lot of the podcasts we talk about, we said, is there one thing that would. Another thing that would stand out, if you like. And one thing that would be that if the CFO understands Treasury, it makes the job, your job as a treasurer, easier because you've got the language of treasury, that helps, but also they understand the pressures. Sometimes it can be a pain because they're like, oh, well, I understand this, and. But sometimes it's a real help. I've seen, mostly say, the majority of times, it actually really helps. So I said, well, that's a positive. So he understands about treasury and everything else. Yeah. I said, but actually, if you look at this person that's there, the current person, I said, it looks like. And they've been squeezed for resource for what, 18 months? They've been. Yeah, yeah. I said, so if you go in there, you're gonna replace them, right? And it was like, well, no, that's not the intention. I said, yeah, but if you go in there, then they. They're gonna maybe move on internally. That's what they. Oh, that's their intention. I was like, right, so they move on. You're taking over their role, and yet they haven't, you know, given this person any extra resource. Well, yeah, I said, so why don't you just take that over? Oh, God, yeah. And we. Not. The final stage here are the series of questions. We would brainstorm some of the questions, and I think they can be constructive questions, you know, and that's the thing it's not to be. Oh, no, don't. It's a robber. I think it's a good role. I think a good company, potentially, you know, good opportunity. But what I didn't want them to do was make that move across and find themselves in the same situation. Also, you know, on the salary question we came up with, the salary package was virtually the same. There was a little bit of an uplift. But I'm like, right, so you've got three, four years where you are now. Yes. And you built yourself up to this level. Yes. I said, you're going to throw that in the, in the trash can. Oh, yeah, yeah. And go to a place. You've got to reestablish yourself for X amount more. Not very much more. I don't want to give too much away. And then. Yeah, so why would you do that? Like, it doesn't seem to make sense, you know, maybe a bigger uplift. And also in writing, you know, it could be a later stage, a takeover, an event that happens or they might do something. I said again, you need more reassurances. And I said, I think you're behind. You know, he's a little bit behind the eight ball. He was like, yeah, okay. And, you know, don't get me wrong, I think good opportunity and everything else, but I think he needs more. He's got more questions that he needs decent answers to before he does that. And the reason I say that at the end of today is to sort of say to people, look, if you've got questions, you know, in Europe, call Katie. In the uk, call Craig. You need to recruit in either of those, call any of us, but call us. We're, you know, we're getting increasingly busy. We've got some really good candidates out there and stuff. But also for the us, call Holly and I. And that's what we're finding that, you know, heading off to Texas, heading off to then Windy City. Can't wait. Chicago. See everyone there? Hi, everyone out there and looking forward to, you know, being out there. Because it's not like just sitting in an office halfway around the world. And yes, we're over here. We are looking at recruiting another person for us in the US we're not another rival recruiter who sits a million miles away and the other side of the world and says, yeah, yeah, I can do this. But they're little more than a LinkedIn filtering factory. Sorry about that. I can have my high horse. Come on, Mike. But basically, you know, the people we talk to, the people we're putting forward to clients we know. You know, I was at AFP Philadelphia end of last year. I then spent most of the week just meeting candidates. I met some really great people at the conference and you know, we've got this role tonight that I'm talking to a client about in New York. The people I'm going to put forward to them are people that I know, people I've met that I've actually shook hand with and have a coffee with. So that's the difference that, you know, it's a personal service. We can't stress that enough that if you want just a LinkedIn filtering service, go on LinkedIn, do the filtering yourself. If you want, you know, us to recruit for you, we'd love to. As I said to a client yesterday, the difference with us is treasury isn't one of the things do. It's the only thing we do. So we do it from top to bottom. You short circuit that. Oh well, let me tell you about FX. It's all right, we've done this 25 years. Thanks. Yeah. So anything else before we sign off, Katie?

Don't think so. Now I think we've covered everything that come up over the last month.

Well, that's it. We're gonna leave you guys in peace. We will have another catch up that'll be post expo so we'll probably do it next month. I'll talk a little bit about what it was like to actually meet everyone face to face. Also found out and catch up with some really great friends out there. Greg, looking forward to seeing you. That'll be nice. And a couple of other really good mates as well. So looking forward to that. Another Craig and some other guys. So yeah, well until next month, we'll see you and enjoy the rest of the podcast we've got coming up this month. Some great guests as well. Thanks very much, Katie. Sa.