Treasury Roles Across Different Industries with Roger Aguilar

Foreign. So welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where we talk to treasures about their careers in this week's show. It's a revisited episode, if you like. So I last spoke to Roger Aguilar. Well, at the time he was at Oceaneering. Now he's moved on when we last spoke back in 2019. So four years ago. Crumbs. Long time ago. We're gonna get into the show. We're gonna go through his early career. He's a great guy. If you listen out at the end, we then catch up from Oceaneering and then we talk about some of the moves he's made since. Great guy to listen to and enjoy today's podcast, this week's show. Delighted to be joined by Roger Aguilar. He's the head of treasury for a company called Oceaneering International. They'll. You might have heard of them. I wanted to look them up myself. They're a engineering services company. So subsea engineering, applied technology, lots of the bottomless seabeds to blue chip oil companies and exploration companies. Roger will explain a bit more about those and perhaps how treasury works there. But Roger's had this incredible experience throughout. He's done lots of different roles. He's worked in consulting, which we've talked about with some of our clients in the past, got logistics, we've got high tech, we've got a number of different things. So what I'd like to do is perhaps explore as we go through with Roger, a bit more about, you know, the differences perhaps with some of those industries, particularly for Treasury. But he'll explain more. He's originally Mexican by background. So let's take you back to the days when he first started in Mexico and then discovered finance and then went into treasury, the world of treasury, as it were. So, Roger, over to you. Take, take us back to the dim, distant past, I think. Over to you.

Thank you, Mike. Thank you for, for. The introduction was very nice. My pleasure to be here today with you. Yeah. Yes, I'm definitely more than happy to talk about my career and talk about. And I'll also answer as many questions as you have. I mean, on that regard. So let's get started with my early days. I started actually my career in banking. I spent about eight years in corporate and investment banking in a couple banks in Mexico. I'm originally from Mexico, from Mexico City, very large city. So in those days, I used to work for Santander bank and BBVA Bank. Both of them are the largest banks in the country and some of the largest banks in the region as well.

In the Latin American region.

The work that I used to do there was as a banker for the, for the retail industry and the automotive industry as well. As I said, for about eight years. And after that. Well, at some point in my career as a banker decided to want to. Decided I wanted to make a move to somewhere else in finance. And when I was trying to make a definition, I had the opportunity to join a multinational company, Mexico treasury senior manager or treasury manager. And that company was Merck, which is part of the healthcare industry. A very large company, very sophisticated as well. So my early days in treasury were with Merck.

You started with Merck, but you came from banking and a transition to Treasury. Had you heard about treasury before or what was your introduction? Oh yeah, I want to work in finance. Treasury, you have this finance background. But yeah, what was treasury, what was the role like?

Yeah, definitely actually in those days in corporate banking, used to deal with customers, to work with customers in the interest in transactions in the debt and capital market space. And I was used to deal with treasurers and CFOs as well, some multinational companies in Mexico. So that's why when I, you know, started looking around at these type of roles, these type of responsibilities and my interaction on a day to day basis as a banker was basically with, as I said, I mean with treasurers and CFO depending on the transaction and the size of the company. So then that's why decided to make that first move into the treasury function. I thought that it was pretty close to my days in banking as well. And I'll tell you, my first company was Merck doing Treasury just for Mexico credit and collections. And nine months after I joined the company, I had a very nice offer from the headquarters from the in New Jersey. That offer was to relocate myself and my family and go to New Jersey to take on the position of Treasury Manager for Latin America. So in that moment it was important. Well, the background I had of in Mexico, but also the language. The language was something that helped me a lot to take on that position. And I was able to close some gaps that the people in the headquarters had with the communication with the people in the region in Latin America. And although I was not fluent in Portuguese, but at least I had certain knowledge about the language. So I was able to communicate with the people in Brazil as well. So that made my life easier, my early days in treasury easier. I actually performed that role for about three years. Increasing responsibility, increasing responsibilities and duties as well. Was mostly focused on cash management to some extent in Foreign exchange as well, you know, trying to understand the region and to a lesser extent in capital markets, because all the financing was basically in the US Level. We were not really doing much in Latin America with that role.

And you're sort of, you know, servicing and helping and coaching Latin America. And again, there'll be people listening today and they have to do the same. How did you make a successful. Okay, the language, that was a good thing. But what were the pressures of the, you know, on the businesses out there? How did you satisfy that and coach and help those guys?

Yes, well, actually, for me, the first part was first of all about understanding or getting closer to the business model. The business model the company had. That was something very important to understand because that helped me to understand the need the company had in the region. And also a very, very important part was to understand the local market. So then what I did was to, you know, to leverage on the relationship we had with the strong banks in the region, with very large banks. The main banks in those days for us were Citibank, you know, the usual banks in the region, Citibank, Santander, bbba, and had a. Very. Developed a very close relationship with them and tried to get, you know, part of their business intelligence, market intelligence to. To get a better understanding on the region. So in terms of the local product, the local meat, but also trying to understand the business model in the company. So in a way that I could make sure that I was basically adding value to the. Seeking to add value to the company. And also that value was perceived by the company folks in the region as well.

And what were their main problems? You know, was it currency or what. What are the, you know, if you were to sit down with one of those guys, you sitting there and they go, oh, my nightmare is this. And how did you then help them or coach them through it? Thanks.

Yeah. It's actually the two largest market for the company were Mexico, Brazil, and probably the third one was Colombia in those days. And the main, the main challenges were related to the currency. So currency and sometimes collections with certain customers, but probably to a bigger extent was about currency understanding local rules, understanding also potential liquidity issues. We were facing in some of the subsidiaries, but for the most part was about effects. To a lesser extent was about cash management. The rules in Mexico even, even in those days were pretty relaxed in that regard. And Brazil was changing, you know, I mean, very often, oftentimes in Brazil changing rules, understanding those changes was very important. And for the rest of the region, depending on the country, but they were Actually smaller markets for the, for the company. So it was really about focusing on probably three or four markets, understanding local rules, developing that business, business knowledge, market knowledge. And I think that was, that was critical for the success.

And how did you de. Risk then the currency exposure or, you know, try and keep those under control. What was the, you know, very active on the FX markets or what was the sort of, you know, without going into too much confidential Merck information, but, you know, did you sweep it all or, you know, what was the. How did you actively get rid of the risk?

Absolutely. I think that it was the same situation as the rest of the companies in the same industry phase, because in those markets we were very largely exposed to local currency. We had very large customers in the market and to a very good extent was related to the government. So the government buying in local currencies. So we were exposed to the local currency. And that was in my role as a Treasury manager for the region, was about working with our FX team as well in tech, seeking to mitigate. Well, first of all, understanding the risk and seeking to mitigate that risk. The company had a formal and very large hedging program in place. So it was a matter of expanding that program. In those days, I mean, we had, we had a hedging program for Mexico, but it was about going into Brazil. And that understanding of the local market was, was critical for that.

And then you'd have this time, you. Three years in the U.S. and then the UK came knocking. Well, you know, you, you thought, oh, this lovely weather in the States and everything else. Let's come to England, where apparently rains all the time. It's a very sunny day at the moment, but actually it does rain a lot sometimes. But how come what the move to the UK happened, What happened there?

Yeah, Mike, I can tell you that probably these two years in the uk, in London, basically were probably some of the best years in my life. One day in the office I got that offer because gentleman who was my peer sitting in London, he was retiring. So I was offered to basically do the same, the same type of work, but now based out of London, covering Europe, Middle east and Africa. For me, it was a promotion, at the end of the day was a promotion because those were the most important markets for the company multiplied the US and Canada. So it was a fantastic experience. But I can tell you that if I had to pick one thing to say about that experience was that I had an international exposure that was very valuable in my career. It's very valuable even nowadays quite some years after that experience, it was fantastic for from every single angle I can think of.

And you made this transition, so you were obviously Mexico and that's where you're from. And then the US and then you did the UK and then we'll come on to in a minute that you went back to the us. But talk me through how you saw how treasury was different. You know, finance is obviously different, but how was treasury different and how did you guys approach it?

Before I moved to London, I had the idea that, you know, treasury is, is very similar pretty much everywhere. And probably the factor that differentiate the treasury work in one place from another place is just about the local rules and so forth and so on. But something that I learned from that, basically from that experience in London, also from my days in Mexican. So was not just to what not just to factor the technical component of this role, of the treasury role. It was also about looking into leadership skills, looking into adding value to the company, looking into understanding the business model, understanding the local business as well, to the extent it was possible, and understanding also the local rules. So I can tell you that from my experience, the treasury management or the skillset that I required to perform in that part of the world basic in Europe and more in Middle Eastern Africa was different from the one that I required in the us. They are different markets. They require from a technical perspective as well. They require a little bit different skill and to understand or the knowledge about certain specific products. So I had to learn all that, all that part and it was, it was fantastic. So that was part of the. I think that was something that made the experience so good at the end of the day.

Yeah. And I, I was interviewing myself the other day and I talked about the great thing with treasury is an international skill and you can apply your trade anywhere. So when I'm talking to a treasurer who's in Asia, PAC or Middle east and then through Europe and then across the us, you know, you comply your trade because you're globally focused and outwardly focused. Now you did all that US stuff and then UK and then you came back to the us. What sort of attracted you back? Or was it, you know, just telling to move back or what happened?

Yeah, actually what happened, Mike, was that before I moved to London, I got my green card in the us, my permanent resident status. So I had to, at some point I had to come back to the US in order to preserve that status and because what I, what I wanted at the end of the day was to apply for the U.S. citizenship.

Yeah.

So I had that conversation with Merck, the plans Merck had for me were slightly different. And also there were some discussions about, you know, the compensation package. And in those days, I was an expat, so conversation along those lines. So I decided then to come back to the US and after discussing with Merck, decided that it would be better to try something else, something different. I got a fantastic opportunity. I got an offer from a company whose name is Jabil, Jabil Circuit, based out of Florida in the Tampa Bay area, I can tell you. I mean, fantastic experience as well. I was very lucky to come back with that company. So they helped me a lot with that transition.

So you came back to Jabil the, you know, maybe explain for this. I know, because I'm a very happy customer of Jabil, you know, and the headsets and everything else, but, you know, maybe you can explain that business and things.

Yes, absolutely. What Jabil does is they are a very large manufacturing company in the, I would say the specialized manufacturing space with several divisions going from technology, going through aerospace and defense, in medical devices, for instance. So they are a very large company with a number of manufacturing sites all across the globe, mainly focused in Asia and, you know, because the supply chain is basically there, but also with large facilities and research centers in Europe and Latin America to a lesser extent, and the US as well, obviously. And what I did in JVIL was I actually went to the company as treasury director for cash management and capital markets. And the capital market part was mainly because of my background in banking and part of the work that I did in Merck as well, and then again.

Made this move from pharmaceuticals and things like that to this technology group. How was treasury different?

Yes, it's very different. Very different. Because in technology, in manufacturing, working capital management is key. Cash flow and strong cash position is a key factor for success. The margins are much lower than in the healthcare or pharmaceutical industry. So taking care of accounts payable, accounts receivable, but not just taking care. I mean, truly becoming a business partner and understanding the working capital management key. I'm not saying that that is not key. In the healthcare industry, it is key as well. However, margins are higher. It's a slightly different position. But in manufacturing, that part is key.

And sometimes again, I'll talk to a treasurer, and they might have stayed within similar industries. But you've done this move, say to pharma, you did technology and then you went to logistics. I know we're sort of rocketing through, but what I wanted to sort of try and get down to is, you know, and then you did Deloitte. So we'll go through that now as we talk. But you've got this fascinating. This is why we got you on the podcast. Because, you know, again, sometimes I talk someone. Yeah, I've just done this industry and then this, you know, they've just done a couple. You've done these. You've seen all the different dials, if you like, with different things. You just talked there about lower margin business. I'm thinking, oh, Gemma. Massive global corporate. Yeah, it is. But the fact is if, if something goes wrong, it can go wrong massively because it's a very narrow margin then logistics. How come that move or, you know, was it location or what happened?

Yes, actually. Well, I completely agree with what you just said, I mean, about the margins. And one day, you know, it was. I was basically living in the Tampa Bay area and I got a phone call from a recruiter in Houston, in Houston, Texas, presenting me a position that would potentially. It was an assistant treasurer position, but eventually could become the treasurer for the company. So that's why I shown interest and I decided to move to Houston, from Tampa Bay to Houston, and join a company named Civa Logistics. Civa headquarters are in the Netherlands. They are an European corporation, but in those days they were private equity owned. So I was, in those days I was reporting to executive VP, treasurer who was a private equity person coming from the private equity firm, decided to make the move to Houston and basically I was running the. I was that I was the one running the treasury function from cash management, going through FX and in capital markets to a very good extent. Private equity is completely different from a public company. And if I compare HIBA Logistics to jbil, for instance, in terms of the margin, they are somewhat similar. In terms of the need of fully controlling the working capital, they are very similar. But in terms of the requirements from the stakeholders and the shareholders as well, they were completely different. The focus in private equity firms is different from the public, from the public companies.

What do you mean different? Well, you know, explain that to me again. I. Yeah, I know because I talk to a lot of treasurers, but again, some of the guys listening would say, well, hang on, it's surely it's just privately held. It's treasury doing the treasury stuff. But again, and also sometimes private. I was discussing this with a client yesterday that some private. Actually they'll come in and you'll be part of their portfolio. They leave the company alone. They do sort of let you carry on and they know your portfolio company, you'll Throw up loads of cash, you know, be very successful and they'll just leave you in place. Thanks very much. And then other private, they come in there, right, give us all your cash, you know, let's load you up with debt. Let's, you know, get as much as we can. Really got to run it really tightly. You know, what was the sort of, you know, what was it like? Was your experience of it?

Yes, actually for the, for, for the private equity company, I mean, highly leveraged cash flow was pretty much keeping control on the cash flows, on cash position and therefore on working capital as well was key. The information requirements from the, basically from the shareholders were in that direction. So we, for instance, about cash forecasting, in order to meet those requirements, we had a weekly cash forecast that was updated every week by every single subsidiary around the globe. So the cash forecasting exercise was massive in order to get a better understanding about the business and, and what was happening in those days and about the margins as well. So that part was very intensive. In a private company, you get rid of all these reporting requirements, you know, for filing the 10Ks and 10Qs and so forth and so on, but then you get other type of requirements coming directly from the shareholder. And the interaction, the communication with the private equity firm is constant. It's also very intensive and all the time required in terms of reporting, the requirements are very different. But at the end of the day, it's a matter, in my mind, it's a matter of understanding the business, understanding the business model. And for, in my case, as the treasury person, based on that, try to add value, try to start presenting things that were meaningful for them, for the management team, for also for the, I mean, to some extent to the board of directors, so they could have debatability. That was required. Yeah, and like that, I mean, for the private equity firm, in terms of cash, cash flows, working capital. So just provide them the visibility that was required and get, you know, getting the understanding about the business.

So, Roger, when I've spoken to some of my clients, they, they've struggled working within firms that have private equity sort of holding or are held by that because there's a lot of reporting and cash is really super king sort of thing. And they've gone on about it, but you seem to enjoy it, so. Or, you know, thrive in that environment. Maybe just explain, you know, how did you feel about it? What was, what were your thoughts?

To be completely honest with you, Mike, before I joined that firm, Siva Logistics, I heard similar comments from other people in the industry. Or another peers. My own experience was not that bad. I mean, my own experience was good in general. I understand that, yes. I mean, that situation of being able, being in a position to provide either information on cash balances, cash flows, cash forecasting, et cetera, pretty much every day, that was a reality. However, I think we were very lucky because we had systems in place, we had a very good treasury workstation in place that enabled us to answer some of these questions or most of these questions. So I think that from that perspective, we had the tools in place that helped us to do our job, basically. So that helped me a lot. But I agree that the information requirements are sometimes are very intensive, I would say all the time. So that's a reality.

And he did it an intense period for sort of two and a half years. As if you hadn't been challenged enough, you joined the dark side, as we say, of consulting. I'm only joking. A lot of my clients are consulting clients, but that was a bit of a shift as well. So you'd done a lot of straight corporate roles to then a Deloitte position. Tell us about that.

And actually going into Deloitte, I would like just to elaborate a little bit on the reasons of why I left Siva. And as I mentioned before, Diva's headquarters were in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam. One of the reasons of why relocated temporarily the treasury slash finance function was because the company in those days were pursuing to go for an ipo, but for different reasons. And after a couple of years, basically the private equity firm made the decision of laying that decision. So they decided to relocate headquarters back to Amsterdam. And although I had an offer to go with them to Amsterdam, well, there was a family situation that I decided not to move, so decided to stay in the us so that's why I joined Deloitte. I can tell you there are no more than good things that I have to say about that, I can say about Deloitte. I mean, Deloitte is a fantastic firm. It's a fantastic place to work, fantastic people. They actually supported me very much in that transition because that was my third interaction. I would say as a consultant, I was the subject matter expert, but not the consultant. So the training that they provided to me in terms of trying to develop all those skills was basically fantastic in, I would say, out of this world. In general terms. You know, my experience in consulting was great as such. I had the opportunity to meet treasurers, assistant treasurers, and it was an interesting position because I had that sort of discussion with a couple of treasurers basically saying, I was basically in your shoes three months ago. So I understand what you are talking about, what you mean. And my recommendation or my thought or my advice would be this, this and that, if that makes sense to you. So I had very close discussions with them and I think that the fact that I was a practitioner before helped me a lot after. After a few months with Deloitte, I faced a family situation that I decided to move into a different role, to leave Deloitte because, I mean, you know, as a consultant, the traveling is massive. So I was basically traveling 90 plus percent of the time. So it was, it was really tough for myself and my family. And that was the main reason of why I decided to give up on that one.

Just going into that experience, just very briefly, just what was the best and worst you saw? You know, if someone's there and, you know, you don't have to name names, you can name them if you want, but I wouldn't, you know, what was the best kind of treasury and treasurers you saw out there on the road and what was the, the worst ones? You know, which treasurers should be looking at themselves deeply in a mirror and saying, right, perhaps we're doing that wrong. You know, you've seen it from that perspective now you're out of it. You're able to, yeah, honestly, in that role.

The best what I saw were treasurers wanting and pursuing to become TR business partners all across the company and having visibility and getting the knowledge about the business and understanding the company and understanding the industry and being open, I mean, for having that sort of discussions about operating model and about best practices, et cetera. So that is the best that I saw as a consultant. The words were fairly the opposite. I mean, guys trying to stay in their own silos. You know, the traditional treasury silo that sometimes is perceived as an extension of the accounts payable department, just trying to stay on their, in their offices, at their desk without sharing information with other people, with their peers in the company. And so I think that that was kind of the. These are kind of the two ends of the spectrum that I saw as a consultant.

Yeah.

And there were a lot of people obviously in the middle. No, you know, how way or leaning towards one side or so. But yeah, that was kind of in general what I saw as a consultant.

And then you, as you say the travel, which I've heard a number of times actually with some of the, you know, good clients and friends and things like that, where they, they just said it's, you know, it's great. You get this amazing experience. But the travel just, you know, is such a challenge, you know, unless you're a single person traveling around, but family life and everything else. So you then joined Oceaneering. Interesting business. Tell us a bit about that. And you know, what's the treasury like and what are you trying to bring to the treasury there?

Yes, definitely, yeah. Actually I joined auctioneering in 2017, which was an interesting year because the oil price was still down, super down in those days. The company, at that point, the company had been, had been facing a couple not very good years. Not just the company, but in general the industry as a whole. So joining this company for me has been about coming to truly make a Treasury transformation. Something that I actually, when I joined the company that I received was that the company was to a very good extent old fashioned, lacking of systems, lacking of processes, lacking of many things and not blaming on anyone in the company or so. But it was a different world. What they had in, let's say in 2015, 2014 and before. So it was the world of oil price of over a hundred dollars and so forth and so on. So it was a completely different situation when I came on board was the world of the, of the oil price in the 40s, 50s, trying to, trying to hit the $60 or so. So it, it's a completely different scenario in terms of market, in terms of margins, in terms of market share. And so, so for me as a newcomer to the industry and obviously to the company, the first step was about understanding the industry, understanding the market, understanding internal relationship, understanding the different business lines. So, and then starts from there, understanding the need and coming up with a roadmap for the tertiary transformation. Sorry to interrupt you.

That's right. No, and you know, sorry to interrupt you, but you're talking about there the cash is coming and as you say, different prices and things like that. But when you come in from a treasurer perspective, you know, what are you looking to do? What's your, you know, again, there'll be people listening and they're, they've, they're about to step into new roles and things like that. I know when I spoke to Joel Campbell, H and L Block and one of the key things came through from that podcast was a very forward focused CFO who just said, I don't want you to do anything. So no, hang on to pay me. He said, no, no, don't you make any changes for the first quarter. The first quarter you just come in, you assimilate, you sort of feel this stuff and get to know everyone. He did that and it really stood him in good stead. When you're coming in, you've got this great breadth of experience, you've literally stepped out of consulting. You're used to hitting the ground running. Boom, Right, what do we do? But how did you approach that? What were the key things? What's on your treasury checklist?

Yes, well, my checklist, the number one was visibility. Have the visibility that it was required in terms of cash management effect, also visibility on the banking relationships, I mean, towards capital markets and debt management. Something that, for me, in my checklist that was also on the top was about the cash position, trying to preserve a strong cash position, understanding working capital in this company as soon as possible, which basically leads me to the discussion about understanding the business and developing those relationships with the business, with the commercial people, with the heads of the division. So for me, that part went key. When I joined the company, we were at the moment where our rating was being reviewed by modis and Standard and Poor's, so sending out those indications that we would keep our strong cash position, which was in those days, and looking into working capital management as well. That part in my mind was key. The second part is for myself as the treasury person, to have the visibility that it was required in order to, well, first of all make a diagnostic on where we were, where the actions that were required in that moment. And upon that, I prepared a roadmap for the, what I call the treasury transformation in the company. But the treasury transformation for me in those days, and based on my first analysis, was not just about adopting the traditional products and saying, well, we don't have a cash pool, we need a cash pool. We don't have intercompany netting, we need netting. It was truly about trying to understand the business needs and say, okay, is the cash pool going to add value to the company? Well, we need to. We really need to analyze that to determine if this is something that we require, because it is not just about the cash pool itself. As I mentioned, the company was lacking of systems, for instance, so it was also about implementing a Treasury management system and start having these type of discussions. So it was little by little, but first of all taking control on the items that were on top of that list. And for me, the main one in those days was about we need to preserving a strong cash position and understanding working capital here.

And obviously that's a key thing with the group and things. And you've seen lots of treasury change. We talk about this a lot in the episode and Technology coming along, what do you see are the big things coming along for you guys? You're obviously the front end of technology a lot of the time. But where do you see treasury developing to and what's your sort of role in that, if you like?

Yes, well, in this industry and company we are in the process of recovering basically the industry as a whole. So the expectations are that the oil price starts going up little by little. So upon that we expect that the recovery will start and then as part of that we truly expect, I mean from a Treasury perspective to start migrating from where we are, which is with a lot of manual processes and some manual products, start moving more into automation, start moving more into seeking for efficiency and controlling the cost in a better way. So I think that I have the opportunity compare also the treasury management in this company is large, this industry against other industries that I have worked for. And I think there are. We have some long hanging fruit, we have some quick win, but also to some extent we need to invest in that and we need to invest money and we need to invest time and the people, we need bandwidth for that. So we have faced some constraints in the past couple of years, but we have a plan in place and we have a. We have to take. We launched actually that plan some time ago, but we are developing that plan little by little because we're trying to be very prudent, very conservative, not overexpending at this moment.

And have you got a Treasury team that support you in this or you know, sort of how many? How is treasury structured within Oceaneering as well?

Yeah, actually I have a small team, Mike. We have a very lean instructor, not just in treasury but as a company. And that has been the result of these past three, four years of I would say difficult times in the industry. So my team are nowadays are three people plus myself. So we are four people in total across the globe and the four of us are in Houston. So that is an interesting limitation because on one hand we have a centralized treasury function in one place, but on the other hand multinational company with presence pretty much in all the regions across the globe. So we don't have that regional presence and sometimes that interaction with the local and regional teams is difficult and also to some extent and in some countries with the local banks for instance. So we need to have some sort of remote control, I mean for that relationship.

And I said that the, and as I say on every week's show as we approach the end of today is that you've got this great depth of different industries different, you know, experiences, different countries. So, you know, you can draw from all of those different aspects if you like, just looking at yourself and looking back over. We'll put your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So people can essentially connect to you if you think it's right for you and right for them and everything else. But they can look through and they can say, do you know what? That looks great. You know, making the move from Mexico through to the us, then the uk, then back to the US and pharma through to technologies, logistics, consulting. You've got all these different combinations which there's a lot of treasures I talked to, you know, have only moved in two different industries and you've got five or six with yourself. What, what's the sort of advice you might give to the listeners today if they're looking for success in Treasury? What would you put yours down to? What would you give to a Treasury analyst thinking, right, not sure what my next move. Oh, actually, Roger said this sort of thing. What would you think?

Probably my advice would be, well, first of all, keep learning. Especially nowadays, the world is changing fast, the trends are changing fast, New products, new institutions, new rules, et cetera. To the, to the extent it is possible, allocate part of your time to keep learning to stay yourself in the market. Try to get access to. I mean, and sometimes it is not necessarily required to invest a lot of money for that. It's a matter of, you know, meeting kind of the right people or leveraging on the relationships that you already have with banks and with some other institutions, people in other institutions, or even in certain websites or so or podcasts as well. So try to leverage on that. So you keep learning all the time, keep yourself up to speed. Another, another advice would be for the industry where you are working, understand the industry, understand the company, understand the business model, develop those internal relationships that will enable you, at the end of the day, to add value, try to add value, try to prioritize in a way that your priorities are aligned to the company's priorities are aligned to the. To the company's objectives. So I think that is very important in my work as a consultant. It was very interesting to me to see that the company's priorities, the company's targets, the CFO targets, where they had. He had his own list and then the treasurer had something different. So getting that alignment is very important. To go. To have the same mission, to work on the same vision as well. That part, I think, is very important.

Amazing advice. I'm just, I'm scribbling notes as we talk here. So work on your relationships, both internal and external. That's, that's key, that's critical, as you've said there. But actually then what I think is interesting, as you say, learning not just yourself and your own thing, but you know, try and learn and align yourself to the company values. Would that be right and sort of look to the future?

Yeah, definitely, yes, absolutely. Get aligned. I mean everyone at the end of the day needs to go for the same place. No, probably in different ways with different. Using different tools, different processes or so. But at the end of the day the ultimate goals are common for, for everyone in the company.

Let's do the same. And you reach those common goals. Different routes and paths to get to there. But yeah, that's the way to do it. Well, Roger, I knew it would be amazing. It was just. Thank you for your time today because you've got this incredible background and different industries. I wanted to sort of touch into those and we dug into some of them and yeah, it was great, as I thought it would be. Thank you for your time today. We'll put Roger's LinkedIn profile, which you'll see is very diverse in the show notes and if you want to sort of connect to him and he wants to connect to you, then do that. So there you go. I hope you really enjoyed that show and us talking last time in 2019. Roger has been very kind. We've had a few technical issues. But you. We're back here again. We're talking now. When we last spoke, Roger was with Oceaneering and he stayed within the same industry but made a couple of moves since then. And Roger's going to bring his story up to date as always. I'm going to hand the microphone back to you, Roger, despite those issues. Back to you, sir. What happened from Oceaneering when we last spoke?

Yes, well, first of all, Mike, thank you for the opportunity. It's always great catching up with you. I appreciate this and this is a very nice opportunity to talk. Yes, you're absolutely right. I mean, when I left Oceaneering I had the opportunity to join Wellbore Integrity Solutions as treasurer. Wellbore Integrity is a private equity backed company in the oilfield services industry. So I basically stayed in the same industry as Oceaneering. And then after a couple years, and those were the days of when Covid started, a couple years and probably not that easy times in the industry as a whole, I had the opportunity to make a move into consulting with Redbridge. Redbridge being a consulting firm originally from Europe and coming to the US to expand the presence in terms of treasury transformation. So the main objective was to expand the activity in the treasury transformation field. And after a few months, well, I decided to leave the firm and actually came back to Treasury. So I joined ECCORP as the treasurer for the company isicorp, which is a multinational firm with presence mainly in the US and in Latin America. And iseecorp is basically the owner of hundreds of pawn shops, as I said, all across the US and in Latin America as well. So this has been a fantastic opportunity to join a growing company, a company that is, as any other company, facing different type of situations, but for me to be in a good position to learn about a new industry, but also to help the company to achieve those goals. So it has been, I think it has been an exciting journey and as you said at the beginning, making some changes. But I would say that no regrets, I mean you can, I mean I have learned a lot about all these changes. So so far so good.

If I just take it back for the. When you got there at the current role, what was treasury like? Was it was a Treasury, you've come in, we talk a number of different guests, if you like, on the show. When you got there, was there a Treasury already in place at Easy Corp or what was the sort of background, if you like?

Oh no, yeah, definitely the EC Corp had a Treasury function in place and my role was, well, part was replacing someone who left the company, but also coming up with an initiative of transforming the Treasury Department and integrating the Treasury Department and centralizing activities as well to a, to a very good extent. So the company has gone through different acquisitions mainly in Latin Latin America and because of that the Treasury Departments in some of the countries were working in, in at least to some extent independently from the, from the central Treasury Group. So it has been also a matter of centralizing and, and more importantly having one treasury global team in, in place. So taking advantage of some synergies and integrating the team to, to a very good extent, I would say. So, so really, really excited about that and something that I found in the team in the US but also in the team in Latin America are great people, fantastic people. So I think that we have a team of very, very strong professionals in the treasury team here at DC Corp.

And how have you done that with an international team? Because a lot of again, listeners listening for advice about that, if you like, they've got diverse international global teams and they're actually saying right, how do we get these guys together? How do we get them all on the same page. How have you done that? If you like.

Yes. Well, first of all, for me, it was about understanding what is we had in place, but also coming up with a very clear definition, the agenda for treasury, what are the priorities, what are the goals, what are the targets, and also setting the frame for that integration, because the teams were working to a very good extent independently in the past. So it has been a matter also of integrating the teams, making the people not just feel, but understand that we're part of the same team. So sharing experiences, sharing knowledge as well. And also something that I'm just started implementing, I mean, we're still working on, that is cross training, for instance. So for the. In such a way that the people in the different parts of the team and different parts of the world have also visibility on what the people at the other parts of the team are doing. In addition to that, well, you know, putting in place some meetings so we can. So we can work together. And in my mind, something that was very important first of all, was to ensure that we all in this treasury team understand that we're part of the same team. So. And we're part of the same organization at the end of the day. So. And we are the corporate treasury team.

And, you know, now when we last spoke, we come out pandemic and everything else, and you've moved onwards and upwards, but you still face some of the similar challenges. I was just looking the other day, everyone's talking about recession, but, you know, treasury in itself and obviously often at the heart of things during tough times and things like that. What do you see as coming down the lines? What are the challenges? Maybe if you're, you know, we, we last saw each other, the AFP conference. And where do you see yourself at, you know, when, when you're looking at sessions there, you think you're right, we should be thinking about payments or streamlining or systems. What are the things that you, as a treasurer, thinking about yourself? What are the things that you think other treasury folks should be thinking about for 2023?

Yes, definitely, I think, or at least in my view, visibility at this moment is key, given the current volatile markets and some of the situations that we are facing unforeseen as well, for the near future and for the midterm as well. I think one of the key parts of the game is to have the visibility that is required also to make sure that everything within the Treasury Department, let's say, is in the right. Is in the right pocket and we have the relationships Also that we need to have in place, and I'm referring in general to financial providers, banks, insurance companies and so forth. So I mean, summarizing in my mind the point number one, but it's really key is to have that visibility, to make sure that we have the information that we need to have to make decisions in a timely manner. So that part is key. And then some other topics. When I say that, I open the door for some other topics as it is. Well, you know, treasury management system, erp, I mean, the interface with erp, you go into the land of payments, into the land of obviously liquidity and cash management and so forth and so on financial risk management as well, visibility on the exposures. But for me, the starting point of all this is, and in my journey in different companies has been about that, has been about getting the visibility that is required to have meaningful conversations with the stakeholders, with the relevant parties and then be in a position to make the decisions that need to be made in a timely manner.

Well, Roger, exactly. So I said, I mean, you gave us some good takeaways last time. We're going to sort of bring them up today, if you like. So we'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. People have heard about the rest of your career, which has been fantastic. And then we've done the update. We'll put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. If someone is thinking and what are the takeaways? You know, they've listened to this on the way to work and the things that they should be looking at doing today, what are the things that you think other treasury professionals, before we leave today's program, they, they should be thinking about in their lives. What, what would you say?

Yeah, some of the things in my mind, I mean, at least in the top of my, my agenda or my transformation agenda is, are really around what I just mentioned about visibility, about automation, about understanding, about new products, understanding new developments, new technologies as well. I think that the treasury profession in general is evolving very, very fast. So it's very important in my view, for the treasury nowadays to have visibility on that, to have a good understanding on that. So, and also talking with other people, talking with peers, talking with people in your industry, but outside your industry as well, not just to build that network, but also to share some experiences, to bounce ideas. In my mind, that is very relevant, this is very important. And this, and that is also something that I try to do. I mean, constantly, you know, sometimes it's difficult because we have little time with so many things going but that's something that in my mind, as treasurers, we need, we need to do. It's important.

As you say, having that wider network just helps you do your day job. I know it's not easy because you are very busy as it is, but I think. Fantastic. So great to catch up with you today and look forward to seeing you again in the future, sir.

Thank you, Mike. Thanks for the opportunity once again. It has been great. It is always great to catch up with you. Thank you so much. Appreciate the opportunity.

Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending on where you listen, whether that's itunes, Spotify or another great place to listen.

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