Video 6 What's your Recruitment Ethos

People aspects of it. Obviously, I run the treasury recruitment company and that's why, you know, I see front end when I'm talking to clients such as yourselves, wanted to recruit candidates, maybe that come from this room, people coming up through their treasury careers, looking at your recruitment ethos is each of you and things like that. You know, you've talked there about intellectual ability being the key facet for the future. Maybe you know, over to yourself, Johan, you've just joined a new team, you know, recently recruited into a new role. So you've been had that first end, you know, hitting you. What's your ethos?

Well, let's say I think you have to try to be always positive because you can face some challenges in the treasury, that's for sure. But I think people need to be curious, they need to be willing to face new challenges. But in the team you need different skills because I need some colleagues also who are happy to do the Day to day. They don't all want to become project leader or be the next, the next treasurer, but let's say is to find the right balance in your teams so that you can compose. But I definitely think they need to be taking ownership of what they do independent of the level or the type of job they are doing on Day to Day. Then basically, depending on where you are sitting, I think you should be curious on really taking ownership of what you're doing.

Yeah, Winky, when you're recruiting, what? Well, maybe it's different as well when you are recruiting because obviously it can be more challenging for people in different industries and things like that. I know that in the past I've recruited for or spoken to the Amazon treasurer and things and I said, oh, you know, I'm a recruiter. And he said, yeah, we don't need you. So, yeah, cheers to that. Yeah, that's really nice. Still, bottom beer though, because, you know, he simply said, you know, a lot of the time they put up, you know, here's, here's the job vacancy. Oh yeah, here's 500 applications. Do you get the similar thing over here or what's your ethos around recruitment?

I don't get the 500 because I asked the HR to scan through those for us. We don't have the bandwidth. But yes, we. And don't take it personally. We don't need a recruiter because we do get a lot of candidates who would like to join Amazon and they have no idea what they are getting into because we are very demanding and one of the things that we do look at Is we first actually want to make sure that you're coming from. You have been stretched before, meaning you have done with a large volume projects and then leaderships taking a role, leading ownership, owning the projects. Right. So one of the things that we do, many things that we look at, one of the things we do look at is whether or not they demonstrate the leadership principles within Amazon. So ownership is one of them able to take risk. And so it's less of an issue for us. But from what I do look at is yes, there are certain depending on the job itself. I do look for people with not just analytical skills but communications strategic role that they have done before. Because as I mentioned earlier, if you can do the checklist, you know, cash management, et cetera, that's great, that's given. But what is above and beyond what is your capacity to do something we haven't done before, getting something new, take risk. How do you deal with conflicts? Because you're going to be working with tax and legal and those are favorite words that we have that oftentimes we are in, we contradict with each other. How do you deal with those conflicts? Right. So those are the things that we look at in the skill sets. It's kind of like the soft skills that we're looking for rather than technical skills because those are actually already given. We do expect that and that's what's above and beyond.

And how do you measure or assess those? Because if they're soft skills, you know, hard skills, boom, they're on the paper.

What about we do once you pass the technical assessment. So the HR probably reach out directly and kind of talk through. They are pretty well trained HR folks for treasury. So they know what to look for once they understand what they kind of passed the first round test and we'll bring them in for interview.

I don't know.

Not so much to add to this. Well, in Apparam we did not hire so much actually we had a very good, strong and stable team for a long time until people wanted to evolve and some of them left, some of them changed inside Apparam, which is also a very good sign when people can move from treasury to another part of the finance department. Then something what I can add. Well, and it's part of the soft skill and it's something which is key in my opinion. Treasury somebody must be absolutely rigorous and a certain ability to absorb some stress. We are in a very operational department. Every mistake can have tremendous consequences. So in that sense being extremely rigorous and this is a key point on which I insist on all the time is. Is key, in my opinion, in a Treasury position.

Yeah. One of our previous guests actually made a very similar point. They said don't ignore the. The small mistakes.

Exactly.

Because it won't be long before they're a big issue.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Now, what I'm going to do, open the questions of the floor in a moment. But just before we do, just to explain what will happen is we will, you know, close off the questions. And the panelists have kindly agreed that if you at one stage want to copy or emulate any of the people on these careers, accidental or otherwise, and whatever you might think, if people here are looking at your careers and they want to have very similar careers themselves, the one piece of advice you're going to give them. So we'll come on to that in a minute. So that gives them some thinking time. Questions from the floor, what do you guys want to know? Or ask the panelists quick as your own chance to get your own back. They've answered everything. That's it. It's amazing. Winky, you said one of your challenges in dealing with the Americans is particularly them understanding the holiday structure. What are you doing next week? Next week's a new holiday.

What holiday?

Ah, Thursday.

I didn't put, I didn't put out my calendar actually. So I know it is kind of strange, but like yesterday apparently is the holiday. So Labor Day. I hate that.

Of course.

Yeah. So, yeah, Labor Day because I work in the U.S. i came from the U.S. so Labor Day. I always remember September. So now it's happened in May and I'm not used to, except the fact that I do have kids at home and they remind me that they don't have school. Therefore it's the holiday in Luxembourg. Yes. You have to juggle and you manage. So what I did is the compromise is I don't work during the day and then I kind of catch up in the evening where the call actually usually starts. So I kind of hopped on some of the important calls and let them know that, hey, today is a holiday, but I do respect that we need to catch up certain projects. So you kind of have to have a work life harmony on yourself. They cannot and they should not expect you to work during the holidays. But you do know that certain things you just. Everybody's waiting for you to kind of keep the progress going. So you kind of have to make the choice. But I'll make the time up somehow, find another way. Maybe on Friday evening I'll just take off early and do something Else. But that is a challenge working with American company when you're not in the us.

Yeah, you mentioned as well. Sorry, go on.

Yeah, no, I just wanted to add on this. I mean, in treasury, definitely you need to be flexible. And this is also, also something I say to the teams. I mean, I don't want you to be in the office to do hours. Right. You do your job when you have to do it and if you have to go back to work even late in the evening, it happens. That's also the beauty of treasury. Basically, you need to have the capacity, I mean, to go back into your job at any time. And days off, official days off, we always organize a permanent so that services are continued to be rendered to countries which would not be on holiday at the same time.

Currency holidays.

Well, you are not the only one in the boat. So that's important that there is also kind of organization in the team to oversee the different projects when you are off. I've learned through my career to delegate more and more and to be able, when I'm off, to take my time off. Indeed, I was checking sometime a few mails, stepping into some calls, but that should be limited because you need to also grant some ownership and responsibility to the team because otherwise if you always concentrate on yourself, then they might be frustrated as well. So for me it's trying to find the right balance as well to kind of delegate and step in when it's required. But it's not always required. Definitely, in my view.

Other questions, everyone's very happy.

Maybe a comment from my side. I've seen enough and I don't know if you share the same view too. Interesting in our jobs. So when you compare the other finance function, I think that our function has evolved much more over the last 10, 15 or 20 years for those who are in the profession for a longer time. So I think it's challenging. We have a lot of challenges. You mentioned the global financial crisis or the consequences, regulation, et cetera. We were last week with some of you at the risk of laboratory. And so we talk about the challenge. So it's exciting. Challenging, but it's exciting. So I think that it's great in our profession compared to the other finance function, where I do believe that the evolution was less visible in their job apart from the technology behind. And even the technology in our specific function is quite, quite developed with a lot of applications. And the second thing that I've noticed also in discussing with other associations, it's great to have an association because we talk to each other what is not necessarily the case in other finance profession. I do not see my colleagues from accounting consolidation, even the CFO talking to their peers. So I think that it's great that we have this kind of community and to help us also to grow to exchange. There's some discussion with some of you for new job challenges or to recruit or could we at association give some support. So I think it's two interesting things. I don't know if you share the.

Same views, but scary the curiosity I think treasure are curious to exchange with their peers. And frankly, let's say there are some of the basic treasury items which need to work. Let's say you need to handle proper bank account structure, cash management, that's the basic and you will find that in every organization. And sometime it's quite strange to see that it's not that optimized or that all the systems are not always in place despite we are in an IT educated environment. But it's not that straightforward for all organizations. So once the kind of basics are done, I think let's say yeah. Finding what let's say are the new challenge or the new best in class solutions. I think it is really important to get involved with the Treasury Association. So exchanging with peers on that's quite stimulating. And indeed I made most of my career in treasury. So basically I've been acquainted to this quite young. But it's really important I think to come out of just your own environment because you have to learn a lot from others, I think and then to bring it to your organization afterwards.