What is the Current State of the UK Market (Treasury Analyst to Manager level) with Danielle Penfold

Foreign.

Welcome to. This is the first of four market updates. I'll be doing the senior treasury recruitment market. Dan's going to be talking about the European treasury market. We're often the AFP for the US Treasurers Conference. So I'm going to sit down with Craig, our guy in the us, and talk about how the US treasury recruitment market's shaping up. Now it's over to Danielle. We're going to talk a little bit just about how the UK junior markets actually working at the moment and what's happening. So we're just. Where are we now? We're in November, just as we head to the end of 2018. Danielle, how's it going in the UK junior market?

Yeah, well. Hi, guys. Yeah, no, it's been. Been busy. I think last year was a busy year. I don't think. I think a lot of people thought Brexit would impact last year, this year, but actually it hasn't really seemed to have much of an effect at your mom's road. So do you. June and July was quite busy, which is unusual because normally, as we know, drops off towards the summer holidays, but this year it did take a while to pick up and then continued into July and then dropped off in August, as we know always happens. And I think this year, actually we've seen a lot of people go on holiday in September as well. So actually September, when we would usually expect things to pick up, didn't pick up as quickly. But then October came along. We saw a lot of treasury analyst roles at that level, which was brilliant for those guys because, you know, they're obviously sort of treasury of the future, so they're getting some good opportunities, good salaries, you know, lots of opportunities out there for them. And then I think now that that kind of, that settled a little bit November, we're starting to see a few more senior roles come up. You know, lots of leads coming in for sort of around the Assistant Treasurer level. So I think it'll be either a really busy November or everybody's going to put it on hold and then wait until the new year. So it's going to go one way or another, but at the moment it looks like it's going to be busy.

But obviously you're approaching the end of the year, so some people are getting their bonuses, is that right? Or when do they actually arrive? A lot of time for the uk.

Yeah. So, I mean, some people do get their bonus at Christmas, a lot of people do get their bonuses in the spring, around March time. March, April. So it depends. Some People do want to hold on for that. You know, I think it is early enough for people to want to make that move if they do get it in March, April time. But I think, you know, a lot of companies now offer a sign on bonus or some sign up, you know, some, you know, to encourage people to make a move before that. So I don't think that has as much effect now as it used to.

And then we were, we did our other videos about qualifications, we've been talking to people at the conference and things like that, how what's been the impact of, you know, is everyone saying you must have a Treasury qualification in the uk, that you must have studied this or.

I mean, it is flexible. I have seen sort of the last year, I would say a big impact on qualifications, you know, act, the AMCT for obviously more senior candidates. It's not to say that those people that aren't qualified can't do the job and, you know, they've got all the experience to back it up. It's just that I think what's more appealing to clients is not so much the qualification itself, but especially for the junior candidates, they've had the motivation and the commitment to go out there and actually take it upon themselves to start the act. And sometimes it's funded by the company, sometimes it's funded personally, but I really do think that it kind of shows their aspirations and where they want to be heading, which is what appeals to the client at the end of the day.

Know that we've spoken before because sometimes when people have done their AMCT and there's a clawback period and they're a bit worried and they're saying, well, I, I can't leave because the company will take the money away from me. But is it right that when you say about sign on that people pay for AMCT if you're joining someone new?

Yeah, most of the time. I mean, I think, you know, definitely at the analyst, you know, treasury manager level, there is definitely, you know, a chance for study support there most of the time. And, you know, if somebody has, you know, they've got a couple of grands worth of fees that, you know, they owe back to their current company, you know, as long as sort of, they're very upfront with the process generally, you know, their next, their next sort of employee will happily cover those and support them in the rest of their study, whether it be days off or for exams or studying time, you know, they, they generally try and support it the best they can.

We've seen also that they do it in expenses. Don't they say you join someone, they say, give us your official, you know, bill if you like, from the ACT or whoever might. There's also the afp, the States as well. And those guys are saying, yeah, we'll pay for it, which is actually quite nice. So if someone said, oh, you have to pay back, don't worry about it, you know, that's why.

Don't let that make. Yeah. Stop you from, from making a move. So, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's definitely ACT is the way to go, I think at the moment.

Definitely.

Yeah.

So you also. I noticed when you're taking job briefs, clients are actually asking for technology, not saying, oh, you know, rise of robots and all that stuff. It's much more. They're asking about have they got technology skills or some systems, are they looking for specific systems or what at the sort of analyst through to manager level, what are they really looking for?

So I think, I don't think it's so much specific systems, but I think it is, you know, just somebody that's had experience, you know, that is a bit more IT savvy, a bit more technology minded. You know, a lot of companies now are either in the process of, or have already implemented a new system. You know, some of the popular ones, obviously, you know, lots of people, you know, tend to have experience with. But again, some companies are still using, you know, Excel, so there are candidates that haven't got that experience.

So with those candidates that have got technology expertise, I know you said on their CVs they're not really bring it out, is that right?

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people sort of underestimate the power of having that on their cv. You know, that is what clients are looking for, you know, that, you know, if you've got any achievements, you know, if you've been involved, any type of involvement in an implementation of any kind, or, you know, if you've sort of streamlined any processes that, you know, it's always worth putting on your CV and, you know, put it in the achievements. And also, you know, make a point of saying what systems have you. You've used, you know, even if it's, you know, a banking platform, you know, it doesn't have to be treasury, you know, to show that you've had experience and exposure to that, you know, you can generally then pick up other systems if necessary.

And do people, you know, obviously you see these once you've expressed an interest in something, but people might want to pick out People before that. The obvious way is through LinkedIn. Are you seeing people putting on LinkedIn enough or what?

I mean, I think, you know, a lot of the junior, perhaps sort of entry to mid level candidates maybe aren't putting quite as much on there as they could and it might be because they're either not looking or, you know, they haven't really thought much about their personal brand. But, you know, I would always encourage, you know, you don't have to have 20 plus years, you know, treasury experience in order to, you know. Yeah. To have a profile. And, you know, I think some of the key points are, you know, systems, if you've used anything like that, you know, add it into your summary. Yeah, I mean, I think the main sort of the things I see the most is, you know, have a decent picture, you know, make sure that it's clear, it represents you and, you know, you're happy with it because everybody else is going to see it. Make sure that you've got a bit of a summary. You know, it doesn't have to.

You said about the photo, we know that. Well, it's 21 times more likely. I think it is now the latest, that if you're, you know, gray, they won't, people won't connect with you 21 times more likely if they do. But we took some photos here and you'll see on our profiles, took a photo, lovely photo of Danielle with a background of a bush and a hedge, as we called it, and she didn't really like it. And that's one of the things, it doesn't have to be a formal. I've got, I had a formal corporate shot and we took it away. I've got one where I'm laughing at one of the conferences and people said, that's what you like with yours. You changed it as well, didn't you? So yours was.

Yeah, so mine's a bit more rural now, so probably reflects a lot more about me. So. Yeah, we were just on a bit of a walk. Yeah. And. But I think, you know, and make. And again, you know, make sure it's up to date, you know, sort of. It's no sort of. Yeah, because if somebody sees you somewhere and they recognize you, they're going to recognize you from your, your profile picture. So. But yeah, and then, you know, summary. I think a lot of people take that bit, the kind of. Of kind, you can't be bothered with it but you know, straight away, as soon as you open somebody's page, that's what you see along with the picture and their job title. So I think, you know, make sure you list any, you know, key achievements, skills, you know, don't make it into a story, but just take the best of you and put it in there and make sure it's relevant, obviously, to Treasury.

One of the things I'm talking next week and someone said to me, I'm a Treasury guy, Mike, I'm not a sales guy. I said, well, that's fine, but don't be on LinkedIn then, you know, if you don't want to. It is a sales tool.

Yeah.

And that's your little bit of sales pitch, like your elevator pitch. So. And you see those, as you say, with the junior guys, the ones that, you know, actually express what they do and what they've achieved, really stands out, it sounds, when you. When you're doing searches.

Yeah, definitely. And, you know, you can tell straight away, you know, you pick them out and you think, yeah, they look great for the job, but you definitely worth approaching, you know, and things like, you know, education, qualifications, you know, don't leave them out, even if you're, you know, you just went to a good school, you know, you might not be act qualified yet, but, you know, you might. You might have got a master's degree and, you know, stick it all on there because, you know, it's important.

Yeah, cool. So, in summary, how do you see the market going forward into 2019? What are you thinking?

Yeah, so, I mean, I think it's going to be a good year. Definitely think it's going to be a good year. I think we, once we get the whole Brexit thing out the way, I think, as I say, it hasn't really impacted it yet. I think a lot of people are kind of holding on, perhaps not hiring on a permanent basis. Looking at the interim fix for the moment, which is kind of better for candidate and client on both sides, because it's obviously a bit more flexibility. But, yeah, I think that get Brexit out the way, things will definitely pick up, things will settle down. But, yeah, I think it's going to be a good year.

And that's on the client side. You know, they're holding off a bit, but we were saying earlier that candidate side, we don't think it's actually going to impact treasury that much, because you're talking about highly skilled people, you know, at whatever level, and that was it. So you're saying some international guys still coming to the UK market?

Yeah, definitely. And I think they will continue to, because, you know, all the time that you know, there's the jobs there that need filling. People need it, and they could be from any background as long as they can do the job and they tick all the boxes.

Job done.

Job done.

Thanks very much.

Thanks very much, guys.