Why Learning is Not a Luxury in Treasury with Mina Nasif

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to them about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show. In this week's show delighted be joined by Meena Nassif, the Chief Visionary Officer at Beacon Fin Train. Mina is also on a voluntary basis the MD partnerships for the AFP from the us but in simple terms Beacon fintrain are one of the leading providers of financial learning and development across Egypt and the MENA region. They provide an array of different professional business and financial training services. I often see Mina popping up on my LinkedIn stream, giving the latest class or bringing lots of treasury professionals up the curve as it were. And you know, it's great to see and that's why I reached out to him because I thought wow, this is something we, we do cover and we talk about on the podcast a lot of time. But actually Mina really focuses in on that so I thought that was something we should you know, bring up if you like. But he's got a practical background, you know, he's come from treasury and finance and then got into this and that's what we're going to explore on today's show. But as always I going to shut up. I'm going to Mina, talk us through his background. Take us back to the very beginning if you would Mina and how you first got started in finance, then you discovered the wonderful world that is treasury and then bring us up to date. So over to you sir.

Thank you Mike. I've been in the corporate treasury career a long time ago, that was 2006 and I did start to touch base with the profession in Algeria with a company called Al Swedi and then I moved back to Egypt to be a part of Coca Cola bottling Treasury team like the assistant treasurer of the bottling company. And then I did move to one of the leading construction company here in Egypt called OCI and also the treasury team and I did move out of Egypt to Saudi Arabia with a company called Al Gihaz holding that was mainly a leading company in an energy construction field. And then I get back to Kalaa, I was the group a corporate treasurer for a company of the Kala Group called Taka Arabia and recently I did surrender being treasury staff and moved to be an advocator for the AFP and also do the thing that I in love with which is financial training. This is from the Practical side, academically, I do train for the CTP since you can say graduation year, that was 2006. So I did train for like 15 years. Back in love with the profession and the treasury career path. My dual profile is between a hand on experience in corporate finance and treasury and also to radiate the treasury knowledge for the new generation and to the existing Brechner in the region.

That's been amazing. You've given us a real whistle stop tour of your background but you've had exposure to corporate treasury over the past 16 years and I just wanted to dig in from your background if you like. You started in, as you say in Egypt and then through the UK and then back to Egypt and then Saudi Arabia. How has it been? How is corporate treasury? Has it been different if you like? What I mean by that is when you first started and then we had our pre call if you like and you talked about where Egypt was in those times through to how it is now, how have you seen treasury and if you like, as you're walking along through your career, you've gone through these different countries, how has it evolved? Is it that it's always been about a cash and all the way through or how has it changed if you like?

Well to answer this question I have to tell you that in my opinion I think the corporate treasure is segmented to three clusters. Like 50% of the successful corporate treasures is the relationship. So if you are able to deal with different culture, speak a different language and shake hand with what we call it the market norm in several areas of the world, you will get to use it and will shortly plug in at a several environment. So you can say 50% of the fun of the journey was to build a relationship with a multinationality people, different mindset, different culture base and managing a team with a multi diversity cultures and 25% for the hand on experience. Because the banks is different from a country to another and there is what we call it a banking practice. If we are comparing London banks to Saudi Arabia banks to Egyptian banks, there is a lot of similarities and also a lot of different culture based or what we call it, the people from the origin country can speak the same language, a way of being out of the country. So if you are able to blogging quickly you are able to speak the same language and my segmentation, the third part which is due knowledge. So I did equip myself with the CTP and I've been able to block or assign the right treasure products across several countries based on the know how Inside the curriculum and speak what we call it a global cash management language. So if you are speaking to a bank and ask for MT940 Swift version, it is the same wallet wide. And if you are asking to have an opening swift code for like MT700 to open a swift for another bank, it is a global language, it was fun. And also the diversity is a value added to accept everyone. The real challenge I think moving between several countries was to deal with several culture because it is challenging to have like a 7 or 8 nationality and the same team with what we call different characteristics. However, I think this is the real value added of the journey to deal with different people and jump out of the comfort zone.

And you say that was sort of. So 50% relationship, 25%, you know, the sort of. And what was the final piece would you say? Or was that the final.

The 50% was the relationship, 25% for your hand on experience of the profession and finally the 25% with the knowledge.

Right.

So if you are building the right treasurer profile I think you have to be a people of relation, you have to be a people of values. I have five main value that I do believe that the successful corporate treasurer must have in the bucket. Like integrity, being centric to the job, team effectiveness, accountable and at the end self explanation with the bank. So if you are building the relationship I think you can open a lot of doors with the bank. If you being in a participation with your team to do the job, not being an executive in a closed office that will grant you the most recent hands on experience and finally being equipped with a globally recognized certificate or credential that keep you up to date with the most recent product worldwide. So I think this is the recipe that I got between several countries and I think this is what makes the treasurer speak the global language.

I think and you talked about there and you've just alluded to it that you, you are focused on this training environment and that's a key thing for you and teaching and coaching and things like that. What persuaded you to do that? Because again for the listeners when we'll put at the end of the show we'll put in your LinkedIn details but they'll be able to see that you have this, you know, beacon fin train sort of background. What persuaded you to move more from you know, treasury per se day to day to actually, you know, giving that coaching and you know, improving that knowledge for the, you know, again one of the things we said before the show was certified, you know, or qualified what the Difference is, can you just give us a quick sort of run through of your views on that as it were.

It's been a long time when I did attend a course of appropriation for the CTP and I felt that it's kind of self satisfaction to learn the others what is the right key to open the door and how to do the job. So since I start training the others for passing the CTP or being qualified enough to understand the corporate treasury between derivatives, hedging tools, financial planning, analysis, cash management, forecasting and a lot of other what we call it a non static topic, a dynamic real finance challenges. So I felt a self satisfaction from learning the others how to do the job. Since I did start learning ctp I do enjoy riding the stage, speaking about its curriculum and have a kind of storytelling about the situation that I have passed through and how to solve the right solution, how to pick the right product with the bank moving between several companies and have a kind of success stories restructuring kind of long term debtor syndication loan the big project usually experience so that it is a kind of happiness to tell the others how to solve their problem inside the corporate that they have. So I think I was pushed by the passion and that's why we, we call it beacon to guide the others toward the right way to follow. We call it beacon to radiate the know how of the profession of corporate treasury and other financial art. A way of being static or standardized in respect to the standard. I didn't fit for being an accountant, but maybe for a month and I resigned because I didn't like to be like doing the same repetitive job and instead of thinking out of the box so I break the ice quickly with the people with a similar characteristic like me. So I think I was driven by the passion to move this knowledge forward for the emerging markets like Egypt, like the Middle east because we're still far away of the American market, the European market, English market, usually the product or the global transaction banking services appear in the market after a while it being born in the state or the Europe zone. So I think it is kind of fun to tell the others about the future driven by passion and feeling the responsibility of upgrading the financial acumen here.

And why is that so important? I mean I think I, you know, I could give you an answer and things like that. You, but you're the, you lead that you know, do you see that? You know, when some of your pupils, you know, they sort of graduate. It's you know, is it for cash? Is it for themselves? Is it for, you know, what are the reasons people come to you and say, right, well I'm going to train with Beacon, you're going to get me through this. We just talked before the show that you're coming into big training season bullets. When you're sitting with those, do all of them come with different needs requirements or is it, you know, oh, they're actually all wanting a pay rise or they're all wanting this knowledge, what is it they're doing?

There's a lot of dynamics to answer this question. The first one is the knowledge itself because the emerging market is feeling thirsty and hungry for this kind of knowledge. I think the mature market does not feel the the crucial part of this knowledge because it is a day to day activity for let's say the American market. However, in the emerging market it is very seldom to find the right caliber like the right piece side your machine speaking the global language or speaking multinational language. So this is the first angle. The other one is they are driven by changes moving from traditional finance background to the digital one and believing in the future change. A lot of profession did disappear and a lot of skills start to appear on ground and there is a gap. So I think the people is acquiring the most recent knowledge like the CTP to fill the gap. And finally the companies itself, they are recommending the staff to be well equipped with the CTP or whatever the global credential that might help them to speak the global language and to be moving from being a cost to the company to be an asset. Because usually the finance team is a cost cutting target in the critical situation like COVID 19 however, if you are the brain, not the muscle, I think I would retain you insights. So being the brain that means you are a visionary person, a strategist person or someone who thinks how to solve the problem, not a part of the problem anymore. So this re angle or the three dynamic did create the demand for learning the CTP or other financial credential. Believing that people started to be admitted that learning is not luxury, it's not a luxury anymore. It is a kind of investment to simply moving from being consuming the budget of training for just a training and instead the real investment. And I think I have a proof of concept here. A lot of banks, a lot of company did cut the budget of learning and development toward the list priority topic and focusing on the financial part because they do believe it is a part of investing in their team. So I think the three reason or angle that I did mention is the real endeavors or what we call the Motive toward pushing the people. And I think, Mike, I have to mention that Beacon is training like 200 to 250 CTP candidates every year, introducing them to the markets. And they are by the way moving between the Middle east and Africa region and mainly between Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirate, Qatar, Kuwait and Omen.

So if, if someone's listening today and you know the number of people who are qualified by exam, we also have people who are qualified by experience. And there's a place to both of those and things. And in, you know, in the past we've had not conflict but somebody said, well I've got as much experience as that person and you know, but they've got the magic bit of paper. You know, they've been through a formal program. How do you sort of answer that or sort of calm them sort of thing or you know, how do you compare the two if you like the.

Famous question is the. Is it important to be qualified or certified and usually answer the people with this question with an example. It is like a bird, you need the two wings to fly. Simply being certified is not a replacement of being treasurer with a hand on experience. You need to have the right space to apply. What did you learn theoretically or even you need the academic framework that qualify you to being inquired and to be in the nice reputation inside the markets with a global recognized certificate program. So I cannot vote for being qualified instead of being certified. I think the question is usually is not applicable or not in a, what we call it comparison because it's like a bird flying with two wings. You need to be qualified and also you need to be certified. And you cannot live with a one wing to fly.

No, exactly. And I think it depends on the audience and some, you know, sometimes we have it where people who are qualified and say, well, we want this, must have this. But then we also get the. I've had other bits where one of my clients sticks in my mind. He's not qualified in anything but he's got all that experience. And he said that. But I want my team to be qualified just because I wasn't given the opportunity because his previous companies wouldn't pay for it. And it was, you know, and it was very frustrating to him that he couldn't get it through. But as you say, I think it's about self development and improvement, isn't it?

Yeah, sure. Learning is an attitude and it's not a task that you do for one time and forget it. It must be a daily activity. I usually say to the learner that you have to keep the reading like a habit.