Why Treasury Professionals Should Embrace Change with Scott Taylor

Foreign welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to them about how they've built their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show. In today's show, delighted to be joined by, joined by Scott Taylor, the treasurer at Bandwidth. Scott has a career that spans many years and we'll get into what Bandwidth do and everything else. I'll get him to describe it. But we were just talking before the show that you know, Scott started at Dillard's department stores, as many of you guys in the US know and we were just talking about the first time of moving everything online back in the day. So I think. So we'll, we'll plumb that and then we've got Treasury Strategies, the consulting group and wit who are the leading software driven communications company rather in that, you know, there's lots of different things for us to explore. As always, that's enough for me talking. We're going to go all the way back to Kansas University. I think that's probably the best. Well, maybe University of Georgia. I don't know. Take us back to those days and how you then discovered the world of finance and then treasury and, and let's go through your background if we could. So back over to you sir.

Yeah, sure, thanks Mike. Yeah, good talk to you. So Kansas University is where my, I got an mba, you know, graduate school. I actually that program, I lived in Italy, we studied in Italy for a year. Coming back to the, back to the US looking for a job. I'd made, I'd had the good fortune of making a very good contact through a professor with the CFO of Dillard's department stores. And he, that's, that's how I got into Treasury. He offered me a job and in treasury, which I admittedly knew nothing about, you know, during the, during the interview process, you know, I said hey, I really don't have any idea what this will be. And he trusted me. They had some turnover going on in the department. He trusted me to come in and be able to figure things out and it turned out to be a really good opportunity for me.

Again, even I know from the UK know that Dillard's a retail chain, massive group and things like that. What was treasury like there with big and complex or was it just a basic cash house? Get the cash in, sort out, get it on or talk us through that?

Yeah, so it was domestic, you know, Domestic only, you know, so there was, we didn't have the international other than making international payments, you know, buy a lot of the merchandise and inventory in the stores comes from. Comes from other places and but yeah, you know, really the first thing we did was and this, you know, show my age but it was moving the banking online, going from faxing over wire transfer requests to the bank or sometimes, you know, back then it's probably hard for some people to believe now, but there was even a bank that I could just call and I could just call in a wire or call and open up a bank account. And then they'd open the account. They're like, we'll send the forms over, you know, a couple of days and think about when kyc, you know, came along, you know, not too long after that and you know, really changed how, how some of those things work. But part of that when we did went through the, that converting to, you know, move into online, I was, I was lucky enough that they, since I didn't know much, they, they let me go to some AFP conferences, some of the regional conferences. I came back from that first one and I was ready to do all sorts of things. And you know, as I was learning more in the first one being just doing an RFP to consolidate our banks to go from, to get our 350 accounts at 50 banks down to 8 banks and do star fees in the process and in a really simplified, streamlined some, you know, just some of our processing and how we, how we operated.

A good starting role sort of this treasury sort of manager there and things. And then you made a move into consulting quite early on in your career at that stage. What was that like? And you know, was it more a sort of a move because of location or what. What influenced the time to move from Dillard?

You know, Yeah, I was, you know, I was, I was fortunate at Dillard's and I didn't, I didn't really understand this at the time, but I was, I was able to do things like that. Like I was able to kind of run these projects, all sorts of things. I was involved in reducing, you know, buying back bonds and changing how we did, how we invested cash, you know, using like buying directly through Bloomberg Terminal. And so I was able to do so much and the, the treasurer that came in actually at right after me, she was a new treasurer. You know, it was a step up into that role for her and you know, just fantastic and you know, was, was open and to change and open to ideas to change. And just after after, you know, about four years, I felt like at the time I just kind of had reached the where on my development, my own development, my own learning with this, you know, with the company being, you know, in the US only and I had the opportunity to join Treasury Strategies and, and I, you know, I learned a lot. I joke about that, you know, I'm, I was working and I'm, you know, we're advising, you know, clients and you know, fortunately there were you partners and the managing directors and that were there to guide me along the way. But you know, how much more valuable in that role I would be, I would have been years later. But I learned a lot because Treasury Strategies, you know, work with, you know, some of the best companies in the world. I'm also with the banks. So we did a lot of projects, you know, on both sides of things. And so that it really did, it really did advance, I think, I think a year in that role is like five years in a, in a corporate treasury role.

Yeah. And I've sort of talked sometimes about the sort of not 10 years relationship that's a bit strong. But with consulting, because you're, you're out there, you're consulting with a company and obviously you're working with more senior colleagues and saying that can you help us deliver this project and do a lot of it. But sometimes, you know, a consultancy is coming, right, give us best practice, give us this. But you're still at an early stage in your career and you don't really know best practice because you've not been through it three or four times. You know, how was it? How did that sit with yourself?

Yeah, so some of that is I really was a say I went to AFP and I really studied. I got the CTP while I was at Dillard's, but really studying and I think even the afp, like the message boards back then I learned so much just asking questions of other more experienced treasury people. And then at Treasury Strategies there was just a abundance of knowledge and could look through previous projects that might be similar to one we're working on in their database and was really invaluable experience. And I've tried to take that approach to every other job I've, you know, every other company I've been to since is that consultant approach to how are we doing things? Can we be doing it in a better way? What is, you know, if I'm familiar with what best practice is, you know, what does it take to get us there? And so I learned a lot. I sent a message over to Tony Carfang not too long ago and thanked him for that opportunity.

That's amazing. Previous guest on the show. We'll put that in the show notes. Love Tony. And he's probably just sitting sunning himself with a margarita in his lovely extra house in Naples.

And one of my favorite.

Oh, God damn him. But as you say, it gives you good methodology and sort of around the way to think about some of the problems and stuff. But you then move back into corporate treasury in another core corporate treasury role. Talk us through that.

Yeah. So, you know, I, I think there's, you know, personal, you know, your own, my, your own personal situation sometimes. And that's had an impact on my career and some of my choices of how I've moved because I, you know, I really enjoyed that role. But moving closer to my home, that was a big driver on the leaving treasury strategies when I did and moving back a little bit closer to home. And, and that, you know, that next move was also really formative for me because it was the first time I worked for a company that was owned by equity and the private equity, it was Cerberus owned company. And they have an operations team, it's not just the capital market side. And they have their operations team that would come in and sometimes walk, try to maybe not manage or private, but just offer up ideas. It turned out to be another great experience for me. I learned a lot working with the people there, working with the Cerberus team.

And with that role, you were obviously. So they were doing textiles. So you've done retail, you've done consulting. And, you know, you, you spread the different industries which has been, you know, brilliant. A lot of treasurers, like, you know, 15 years, one industry. You don't see all the different bells and whistles and all the different things. You know, what was that like, you know, with. And then we use textiles on then to Blue Cross. So did you see big differences? You're in Treasury. It's just treasury everywhere.

There are common, you know, there are things that have been common through, you know, through all my moves. There are things that are common that are just, you know, just things you think are Treasury. Yeah, but my role has been, you know, it's been slightly different. I think, you know, the manufacturing that, you know, textile, but, you know, some manufacturing company. And so I've had, I've been in a few manufacturing companies and if there is an area where I really have feel like I have an expertise, it's probably there. We got to. It was a small enough company. That we were able to reach out and be part of things that aren't maybe what you consider Treasury. And those were really exciting, you know, working on huge initiative with multiple teams working together to try to. We had, you know, with the private equity we had. We had EBITDA targets, we also had net debt targets. So how do you increase. How do you improve your cash flow and learning about, you know, working capital, learning about how you can impact the company's cash flow and debt position. It was a great, you know, it was. Like I said, it was just a great learning experience. Again, something I probably took for granted and how a CEO can really drive that type of collaboration across groups, you know, supply chain and operations and finance treasury and how we, how we work together to achieve our goals.

And then the move to Blue Cross and then ppd. Because again, I'm not, you know, I've looked at, you know, some of my other guests and as I say, they've sort of stuck with those you. But you carried on making moves onwards and upwards.

I've said before in interviews that my resume. In some ways it's bad that I, you know, I have moved, I've moved around a lot and some of those, like I said, you know, maybe may have been personal reason for why I moved somewhere, but it's also been really one of the best things because I've learned so much along the way. You know, at every stop I've learned, you know, not just learned about that business, but I've picked up, you know, ideas and picked up best practices along the way and hopefully helped implement some of them. So yeah, so my moves were from manufacturing Blue Cross but multiple private equity quite a few times. Private equity where even going in. I knew that it was probably four or five years max because it was the company was going to spend some way.

When you are coming into those different roles, I sometimes talk about you going in. We just had Biden first hundred days in office and going into somewhere to make an impact or anything else. But you've gone into these, have you just write key. Where's the cash number two? This. Do you have a checklist or what's the sort of development with these, you know, differing type of environments and things you say about private equity. Julie Fabris on the show before she was in private equity somebody. It's not just cash, cash, cash. That is a key focus because that should be in every treasury. But actually it's then, you know, in different businesses about the efficient management of it. But different times said the supply chain Is different, you know, so different businesses have needed different TLC and you know, looking after in different areas. So you know, it has been different if that's the right way. But what would you say there?

Think about the first hundred days. It's getting familiar, you know, for one it's just getting familiar with how are things operating and, and you know, some as you do that early, just as I do that hopefully a lot of times I see things that, I see things like we could improve and in those situations sometimes you, you identify with something that it would take a large project, it would be a big initiative. So I look for the easy wins. Yeah, I look for anything that we can improve easily and just pick up some momentum and some credibility of finding that low hanging fruit, if you want to call it that or for me it's just, I just call it easy wins. I look for that to try to build that momentum so that when we approach, when we approach with the larger project or the larger initiative that we have some, that there's some confidence that we, you know, hopefully move to the top of the list and getting the resources we need.

And so you then moved, you know, and I wanted to talk. So you just took Blue Cross to PPD before we then get into. This is great. I mean each of these, you can see the progression in each of these roles. But when you've done it, you know, one of the things that jumped out at me, I was looking back here, ppd, but you got a CFO award because again you, you know, you've got this. Would you say that you've got a change management improvement sort of in your back pocket all the time that you just get right guys, this.

Yeah, yeah, all the time. I see change as deliberate change is great thing because the goal is you're trying to improve something, you're trying to get, you're trying to gain some benefit or some value with change. And I, I, I do get frustrated with, with the people who just resist it and you know, we, I've gotten better I think hopefully over the years at how to interact with the people who are just kind of trying to stonewall those efforts. But to me change is good and I haven't been afraid to move but also haven't been afraid to just reach out and touch some things that like I said, maybe aren't treasury related that might be in supply chain. It might be just looking at the data. Talk about, I think we'll talk about, about you know, automation and how we try to reduce the amount of time that we spend doing all the things that have to get done. But for me I need time to just think. I need time, you know, I try to create time for myself to think and look at data and look at information and try to figure out how, how something could be better. How, what, what can we do to make this better? And maybe that's not in an area that I'm directly responsible for, but can I offer some analysis or some insight to those teams to help them realize or help them make a change for.

The better and then talk us through the. I want to get into your role with bandwidth before we, you know, we're not going to run out of time today but talk me through, you know, just, maybe just Blue Cross PPD, AGY, CommScope, you know just, just give us a quick rattle through though. You would.

I'll skip the commscope. You know I was there before coming to bandwidth. Great company, you know, large S&P 500 multinational. There were 60 countries when I was there. I got to, while I was there we, you know, implemented a Treasury. Treasury management system. Yep. That was one of the very first things I did. So just within months after starting there, you know we're, we're kicking off this project and start and it was a full blown, you know, everything, you know, get, not just get the accounts connected but you know, automating the cash accounting, automating how we track dollar intercompany loans, put in fx, you know as a full blown. So you know, learn a lot, you know, had to learn really, really quickly, like probably faster than normal like everything that was going on. It was also the first time I was on such a large, a part of such a large team, a large treasury team. Instead of being, you know, two, three people, you know, having over a dozen and interacting with people in different finance centers around the world.

What was that like for you again for the listeners today that you know, how did you handle that? What I mean by that you were there and did you gone from one or two of you. That's it. To suddenly spinning all these plates with all these different people and stuff like that. How did you lead that team? What was, what was your.

Well, you know I was a director there, there was a treasurer then you know, another director. So we it on a larger team, you know, much more specialized. You know we had a, we had an FX and risk manager, we had a, you know, there was a cash manager. So being more focused at that first project of implementing, you know, spending that first year because that's about how Long it took getting the treasury management system. I got a good overview of everything we were doing but then you know, once we had that in place it was really like focusing on, you know, my area and that was different. It was really different because I'd always being on smaller teams you're just involved like you're really hands on involved in everything versus hey there's the FX and risk is happening. I see reports but I'm not doing it. And, and you know there are other things like the cash accounting, you know, I'm, I'm not responsible for it. There's somebody else on the team that's kind of reviewing those things. So that was the first time I'd really been like just hyper focused on one thing or a couple of things instead of everything.

Again the sort of treasury per se there before you then came and drawn bandwidth. What then sort of led to that? If you like what was the been with Commscope for a number of years doing well and everything else. Then bandwidth came along. How did that come about?

I was part of or was at Commscope while an acquisitive company and a lot of tuck in acquisitions but every couple of years transformative and there was a really huge transformative acquisition and I was there through that and with just a lot of change going on I felt like I was in a good position and I felt like I really had almost just a real win win when, when the bandwidth opportunity came available it was a step up to being treasurer and from, from director and you know a chance to. I was the first treasure dedicated treasury professional bandwidth. So the opportunity to come in and really have you know, a blank sheet in a way that was, it was pretty exciting for me. Like I said, I, it was a tough decision because I had not only was Commscope a really good company had really been great for me through the four years I was there. I had really good friends there too. So it was, it was tough leaving but I, but I've been happy with the move to pen with Tell us.

About bandwidth if you would in the story there. What's what you know again you've, you've won awards, you've got all that stuff which we'll dive into in a minute. You know, and I know that we talked about this before and you're a modest person, Scott. You know, I know that you know, oh no, look at it. But you know some of the stuff you guys have done and the automation thing we'll get into but you know, why did you join Bandwidth? You Know what's so good about the group or talk us through that.

It was growing, growing company. Like you know, two years before I joined company, went public after, you know, 18 years after operating for 18 years, went public, raised capital, had another round of raising capital. So the number of employees had doubled in the two years prior to me joining. I was part of a continuing growth and that was, it was exciting, you know, to see like where bandwidth could go. And it's still, we've continued to grow during the two years we've, you know, issued convertible notes and raised money pattern, made our very large acquisition, you know, a transformative acquisition at the end of last year and you know, expanding, really accelerating our international growth. So yeah, it was just been what I, in some, in a lot of ways what I thought it was going to be, this growing technology company and you know, we're communication like this. Zoom is a great example. You know, we got a, we certainly got a lift from, you know, people working from home where a lot of people don't recognize the name bandwidth, but definitely have touch bandwidth on Zoom calls and Microsoft Teams.

And again, for the people, you know, listening today, how, you know, how, where does your product fit into that life cycle?

It's our APIs that enable the connectivity and power things like Zoom or if you say Alexa, call grandma the commercial if you've seen that one. That's what bandwidth powers that through our own dedicated network.

And so with the role itself, you and I, we both spoke about this before the show and this was an amazing thing that you got some awards and you were like, so, oh well, yeah, you know, I just, I just like to systematize things. I just want to just sort of where I can add that value by lowest touch points and things like that. Can you explain the ethos to us and stuff over, you know, over the podcast?

Yeah, sure. So, you know, you asked earlier about the, the first hundred days and when I started here, you know, and because I was the treasurer and the like, again the first dedicated treasury person within a few months I was asked and I said, hey, I don't think we're quite there to needing a Treasury management system having gone through implementing and knowing how long and how much effort it is and how much, you know, how much money you can spend. That was, hey, we're not there. Maybe we will be in a few years. And then not too long after that with just some other things I didn't want that also to take away from. I talked about, you know, easy wins and low hanging fruit. I Didn't want that to take away from the time that I could focus, focus on trying to find those other easy wins. And then as I learned about Truvada and the API, their API capabilities with connecting to banks, where it took as a comsco, where it took over six months just to get our banks connected through Swift Service bureaus. Here just a few years later, we're connecting to our banks, getting banks connected into Shrabada in days, you know, it's just light speed in comparison. So we were one of the, you know, early, early clients of Truvada, one of HSBC one or International Bank. They were, we were a pilot with them to set up an API connection to Truvada. Icd the investment for like money market funds and they have some other products. But another company I was very familiar with had used in the past, they were willing to do the same thing. We were a pilot with them. And so really it was their willingness to work with us and to work with Sravada to embrace this new technology of how we connect and how that, you're right, it saves us time and that I have once I have one place where everything, you know, all it's aggregated and it's cost effective for super light touch on it. That's a big one. We have talked about that. But that's one thing that changed big time from when I first started and I was at Dillard's when we needed IT support, it was pretty easy to get and you know, as things, you know, over the years that's become more of a, you know, you're getting in the queue queue and at larger companies you're getting into a queue with lots of other teams, you know, needing IT assistant, IT support. You know, we were able to do that with very, very little as we.

Move towards the future of treasury and you know, we've talked about this connectivity, low touch. What does that then leave you the time to do? What, what are you then focusing? What, you know, is it just to, you know, put your feet up and stuff? I'm not, I'm joking. All right. I'm just, I know you're a busy treasurer. What's the, the bar, the extra time that, what do you then spend the extra time focusing on?

I just, I look at different things. I, you know, I look at, I look at data, I look at, you know, I just do some analysis. Recently we've implemented virtual card program. So I've worked with our accounts payable team to get that up and running. I, you know, Just, it gives me time to. I talked about needing time to think and sometimes I look at something and I, I might spend a decent amount of time like going through, going through the numbers, going through data, and I might come to a dead end that I just come to a point that I. And it's probably not worth the effort for the very marginal improvement. And other times we say, hey, this virtual card program is going to really bring a lot. It's going to bring something back to us. And you know, there's other, other things like that that we're have worked on or are working on or going to work on. So it just, it gives me time to do those things to, to look for. How can we improve something? How can we do anything better? Whether that's just in speed, automation or dollars, like in virtual card program, it's dollars back to the company every month.

What's your filter for the future? You know, for, for all that stuff? There's loads of stuff coming at you, you know, what's your filter for that? You know, the, you know, I'm sure you're getting the banks coming to, people coming to you. So I've got this great idea. You've got the, you know, now you do all this transformation and stuff like that. I was talking to AC from Kongsberg Automotive and, you know, he was really drilling down to connectivity and things like that. And he said, well, actually that's what I want to focus on. But where's the next thing for you?

I think as we, as we grow. So we're, you know, I mentioned that our, the acquisition. So right now we're in this integration phase where everybody's focused on, you know, integrating the new company. And some of that will be, a lot of that will be things that happen on the IT side, you know, getting on the same erp. So for us and for me, we're going to have, you know, our first, really, our first significant foreign currency exposures. We will likely have a need for netting, for setting up a netting program. So I'm open, just like with Truvada, I took a phone call. I'm open to talking to and trying to see if something makes sense for us. And I think some of how we transact, how we do foreign currency, how we hedge, because those are things we're not doing yet. So there's a lot over the next couple of years I can see coming our way or things that we're going to want to do.

Well, we might need to edit that bit out of the podcast because otherwise I think your phone's going to not stop ringing from a lot of the audience. Let's get in with Scott. Yes, let's do that. And things like that. I mean, you know, you know, joking aside, obviously you've got that stuff coming. You, the team wise and people wise, you know, you've been, you've been all the way through it and this is one of the things before the show and that's why, you know, I alluded to that earlier, that you've got this range of different companies and everything. I guess. So if someone's coming and joining you guys, what are you like as a boss? You know, we've heard from you and things like that. What, what do you want to do with people in treasury and things?

Yeah, I, I'm, you know, I want to, I want to try to give, you know, that I want to be more like a, you know, like a coach, I guess, and try to basically just, you know, to be able to, to pull out the best and, and people, you know, to try to have them see things the way that, the way, like what I've talked about. Like, you know, hey, there's, there's the, there's the work we absolutely have to get done, but let's figure out how to do that in the most efficient way possible so that I want them to have the time to do the analysis and to think. And this, it's been, I will say that has been more difficult in, you know, the last year in the, in the work from home. I've, although I've been back in the office, but the people who report to me are, but it's a little more difficult that develop that type of development and that type of coaching where I'm, I'm, I'm somebody who will just, you know, I'll walk over and say, hey, you have a few minutes, let's just talk through this. I'm, I'm doing this and I want you to see how I'm thinking through it. Not that that's the only way to think through it, but I want you to, I want you to understand how I'm thinking through this. And then you might, hopefully they might add something to that or they might have a different way of looking at something that I can learn from. So that's very. I want to be a coach, but also I want to be a very, I'm a, I'm a player's. I want to be a friendly.

Well, it's really good because what it does is it's sort of, you've been through the same process and I'd love that, you know, I sit with Joe who works with me in, in the office and things. And I said, look, you know, I would do it this way. You don't have to do it this way, you know, but it's like, this is what I would think. What are the things that you think about trying then come sort of two brains are better than one, you know, isn't it? It's sort of trying to, you know, get their experience and also at the same time give your practical expertise or thing.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think I go back to thinking about, like, you know, at CommScope, there were, I said, you know, it was a large team. That was something that, you know, I. We could have, we could have a couple. It could be one other person or it could be a couple of people and, you know, just walk through and like the treasury management system, like, there's a lot of customization and how, you know, how you set things up and. Or there's options about how you set things up. And that's exactly what we would do. We would bring in the people who were kind of the experts in that area and we would talk through it and it'd say, hey, here's how, here's what I'm thinking. A lot of questions, you know, what do you think? And take your time. Yeah, and take your time. Come back to me if you need to. But that type of open communication, collaboration, teamwork is. That's how you make things better.

And before we, you know, go to, you know, we'll put Your details and LinkedIn details in the show notes. We'll go to your top three tips. But before we just get there, are there any areas that, you know, we've been talking, I ask questions all the time, but maybe there's any areas that I haven't covered that you thought, you know what? I wish we could explain about this just to the, Again, this is for the listeners out there. You know, we'll go to, as I say, the three or four tips for the people listening today if they want to have a similar background to you, but this is more the, you know, you go to, as you said, you, you're a big consumer of the ASP conferences and getting knowledge from your peers and things like that. Or what are the things, other things that we should be looking for, listening out for you that you would say?

Well, one, I've, because I've worked at large and, and smaller companies, I, One thing I. At the smaller companies, Especially smaller companies with some international presence is we have the same problem. You know, we have all. We run it, not the volume, but we run into a lot of the same issues or the kind of the same hurdles that larger companies do and don't necessarily have the same resources, you know, whether that's the size of the team or just capital or IT resources available. So I think I've, I've said before, you should be open to new technology, but you should seek it out. You know, like, don't just take the calls. Like, you know, try to learn, you know, learn from, hop onto webinars that, you know, the banks, the banks are a great resource for, you know, offering information, but anywhere you can, anywhere you can learn, you know, try to spend time doing that if you get the opportunity to go to conferences. But there's so much information available that you should really seek out and really, really learn about things that can help you do your job better.

Actively be out there, sort of not, as you say, not just receiving the information, actually proactively going and getting. And I think that, yeah. How do you balance with the pressures of being a treasurer? You know, how do you think, oh, actually I need to do that sort.

Of thing for me, you know, I have to make time. I make time to do that. You know, there's, it's not always possible. There, There are times, you know, throughout the year that, you know, you're just, you're just too busy. You can't even think of it. You can only think about what you're, what you have to get done. You know, when we went through the acquisition back at the end of last year, you know, that was one of those times. You know, you go through a couple of months where you have to focus on everything that just has to get done and then hopefully as you get through those, those large events, you can carve out time to do the educational part and the, the self growth, I.

Guess, or I think Scott amazing. And there was some really great stuff. And again, as, as I said before, I keep quiet some of the time because, you know, it's your show, it's not mine. People tune in to listen to you. So that's why, you know, if you guys are thinking, oh, well, you know, I just leave it alone because I think Scott's got some really great value to add to you guys. So as we wrap up today's show, we'll put, you know, his details in the show notes, so if it's appropriate, he'll accept your connection requests. If you really want to be part of it. As long as you're not another bank trying to sell something or another IT provider, he'll come find you if he wants you. Don't worry. So I calm down. But joking aside, you know, if you were to give some of the, the tips from the guys maybe in the early part of their careers or other tips, what are things you going to say to wrap up today's show that they can, can people can take away with over their morning coffee sort of thing?

One thing that I really didn't do a great job of all the time in my career is, is just communicating what your goals are, what's your own personal goals. And maybe if you're a Treasury analyst, you know, just making it known if, you know, if you want to move up to manager or director, making that known to, to your supervisor or supervisors, making that known, there's nothing, there's nothing bad that's going to happen from that. You know, if you want to learn more, if you want to grow, develop, and if you're, if you're working on cash management and you're a larger team and you're really interested in learning FX and risk management, just make it known and be willing to take on more anytime, anytime things come your way, instead of seeing it as just more work, I'd say take it on. Be, you know, be aggressive to a point and where you want to get to. I think I, a lot of times focused on doing a good job. I'm working hard and you know, why, why, why haven't they asked me to do this or why didn't they ask me to do, to manage this project? And I think, you know, some, in some cases it was just a matter of, oh, we didn't know you wanted to do that. And so I think that that goes a long ways and just showing, showing that, that eagerness to do more and, and be more.

Yeah. And then further up, you know, other things that you think that people, I think the actively going out and seeking, you know, the system and then seeking what you need. I think that was a key one for myself. I thought that was really impressive.

Right. Just like I said, don't just be open to new technology. Really seek it out, embrace it and figure out how not everything is going to work for every company or every situation, but find the ones that can work for you. I'd say especially if you're a smaller company, things have changed a lot over the last years. Couple of, just the last couple of years and technology keeps getting better, but finding things that can help you do your job better or faster. It's important.

Amazing. Scott, thank you for your time today. We'll put your details in the show notes and hopefully can't wait to see you at AFP Washington maybe later on in the year. Be great to share. Finally, a beer with yourself.

Yeah, that sounds good. I'll look forward to seeing you then.

It'll be lovely. Thanks very much.

Thanks. Thank you.

Hello, it's Mike here again. I hope you enjoyed this week's show. If you did, then maybe you want to follow the show or subscribe, depending on where you listen, whether that's itunes, Spotify, or another great place to listen to the show from. It's totally free and means that you'll be the first to see each and every week when we release a new show. And maybe whilst you're there, you could even leave a quick review. Reviews and ratings are among the most important metrics for a podcast to effectively rank. And as you can probably appreciate, the podcast is a lot of hard work to produce every week. It'd be amazing. Just take, say, 20 seconds, leave a quick review of my amazing guests and their great career stories. We'd really appreciate it. Thanks very much and I can't wait to see you soon. Sat.