Why Your Network - Not Just Your Knowledge - Builds Treasury Careers

When you start in Trinity, I think it's just this one path forward and this is what it looks like everywhere. I wish I would have started building my network soon and I've made up for it over the years, but then finding other opportunities to learn so that I was more well rounded in the beginning. So I could have taken maybe taking on some opportunities a little bit sooner. But I do think things happen for a reason. And so being a little bit more inquisitive early on I think could have benefited me because somebody also asked me, what's your biggest regret in your career? There were things that have happened in my career that weren't great, but I've learned from them and they've transformed me into the person that I am today. So no would I necessarily want to repeat some of those things that have happened? No. But they did add value in the end because I was able to find what I could take from those situations to then better myself that are my career path. And so I would say it's not even the bad is not always bad.

Welcome to this week's Treasury Career Corner podcast where I interview treasury professionals about their treasury careers. Each and every week I talk to treasurers about how they build their careers, where they are now, where they see both themselves and the treasury profession going to next. Let's get on with the show. In this week's show I'm joined by Sherry Nicole Speaks, the Vice President treasury at JBT Morrell Corporation. JBT Morrell is a leading global provider of integrated technology, equipment, software and services to the food and beverage industry. Driven by a singular purpose to transform the future of food. They empower businesses to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving market. So whether you produce or operate in animal protein, plant based products, fresh produce, whatever, they work with you guys. So these are the guys behind the scenes sort of thing. And JBT Morrell actually reunites JBT and Morel who were two pioneering companies with complementary strengths. So they come together. We'll talk to Sherry a little bit later about how with combined portfolios, they're well equipped right across the food services industry. Enough of the sales pitch for JBT morale. What I'm going to do, we're going to talk about Sheri and her career. So Sheri, if you would take me back to the beginning, how you first got started in Treasury. Over to you.

Hi Mike, thanks for having me.

Thank you.

So I feel like I stumbled into treasury and I always love having this conversation with other folks in treasury because you can't go to school and Get a degree in treasury, we all kind of stumble our way into it in different ways. I have a little bit of a checkered past, as here in the US People will understand. I started my career after college as a subprime mortgage underwriter. And I was take people back to if they saw the movie the Big Short. And at the end, they're doing the recap of the industry. And it says, On May 7, 2007, New Century Mortgage files bankruptcy. Well, that's who I was working for on May 7, 2007.

It wasn't your fault, was it? It was.

Honestly, it was not my fault.

You were just there. That was.

And at that point, it was, you know, what do I do next? A lot of folks stayed the path and just went to the next mortgage company. But I had known before that that there was something else I wanted to do. And I had gone back to school a few months prior to that to start working on my mba. Then I said, okay, I'll figure out what I want to do when I grow up after I get my degree. Well, timing didn't work out for me, and I found myself unemployed. And after almost a year, got a call for a job as an assistant in the Treasury Department. And at that point I called my mom and I was like, what is Treasury? And so we did Internet research. We had no idea what treasury was. And thankfully, the treasurer at the time saw something in me and an opportunity to help me restart my career and again start over and go down a different path, and one that has actually turned out to be incredible. On the first day of the job, he plopped the Essentials of Treasury Management on my desk and said, start studying. And I was like, I'm in school right now. But I took it seriously because I knew very quickly that this was a new opportunity. It wasn't just a job. It could really be a career. And I try to have, when I talk to folks, making sure people understand the distinction between a job and a career. And I knew this could be a career. And so I started studying very quickly, became a Treasury analyst, and have been working my way all the way through the ranks ever since.

You said you knew it would be a career. How. What was it that. Hang on. This could be my career? Treasury. How did you know? You know, you started to read the book, you've read the introduction, but you suddenly, yeah, this is my career. Or how did it go?

You know, it was different from the industry I was in prior because it was loan or the house. You looked at somebody's Credit, you said yay or nay here in the department. When actually was at my prior company, everybody was doing something different. When I looked, when I was studying the book, there were so many different things that were covered. I had this person over here working on international, this person over here working on domestic, this person over here was working on pension related things. There was, it was so vast and there was so much opportunity. I could see that right away. So I was like, oh, I could go down this path or I could go down this way or I could learn it all. And Jack or Trey's master of none maybe, but that's the one that's. There's several things I love about treasury, but that's definitely one of the things I love most about Treasury. It is not pigeonholed until one space. It can look very different depending on the size of company. The industry you're in, there's so much opportunity. So it's just really, it's, it gives you an opportunity to really grow.

And when you were you gone in and we skipped a bit actually. So you were working for Illinois Tool Works.

Illinois Tool Works is another global diversified manufacturer.

I was gonna say who are they? Or give us an idea, you know, if you're in the uk, Europe, you might have never heard of them. Or what's the size of the company, what's the background? Because then what was treasury like for you as you started?

Yeah, so Illinois Tool Works, massive company. Think they're about 15, 16 billion dollars now. They did a few divestitures about 11, 12 years ago where they scaled down a little bit. So when I left there they were an $18 billion company, 900 business units, every nine different segments. Everything from packaging to food equipment, tooling, things like that, flooring at one point. So it was fascinating because not only was it domestic, that was my first experience working with people internationally, starting to understand international business. So that was all really fascinating. The department, that department was a little bit more siloed. Either worked on international or you worked on domestic or you worked on the pension related things. But there was still for me and I think it was actually really great. So it was a little bit of a moment for me to kind of have to start my career over and go into this entry level role. But I think the way I came in was actually really great because in that assistant job I worked with everybody. So I had this opportunity not to just go in and just do my one job. I have to go in and interact with everybody. So I could see a little bit of what Everybody was doing, which was really great. And in that corporate function, then I learned, oh, I've got to work with the tax folks, I've got to work with internal audit, all these as well as the people in the business units. And when I was at itw, they were very much an acquiring business. They grew very much through acquisition. And so I was able to develop into a role where as we acquire business units and because cash is so important, I was one of the first people that new businesses would talk to when they were acquired. And so I got to develop all these relationships and become this trusted resource for the business units, not just domestically, also internationally. So it was really great.

And you also, I know when we had our pre call if you like, so ITW and then JBT later, which we'll come on to, you saw a clear Runway. What did the Runway look like to you? If you like, and how did you make the most of it? As you say, you got to know people and then hang on, I'm in treasury now. I really enjoy it. And how did you then develop that? What happened?

Yeah, so it was a couple of things about one, who are you surrounded with in your mindset? For me it was about building my brand and building my network. Networking is incredibly important to me. I don't want to just work in a silo or with blinders on or think just what I'm doing is the end all be all having that group of people, whether it be to learn from or to commiserate with. It's great to have that network around you to build things up. And so I was able to through my network, but then also people that I worked with when I was at Illinois. So there was a gentleman there who I'm still very much in contact with of the Director of Treasury, John, who really took me under his wing and would allow me to would share. He was very good about teaching and I was open. So that relationship is a two way street. Finding somebody who's willing to teach you, advocate for you, be an ally for you, but then you also being open to learning and being flexible is really important. And so when it was time for me to transition and move on to a new company that was written that really took off here at JBT, I took over the treasurer role last year in 2024 and my predecessor was probably one of the best allies and mentors I have had in my entire career. Yeah, he was all about learning. He was all about I need to make sure you're ready to take this role. When I'm ready to retire. And that's exactly what he did for me.

Just before we move into that role, if you like. But you then started studying whilst you're at Illinois Tool Works, and you then started getting more involved with afp. Can you explain how that started? Because then, you know, when I was doing my research, you said, been on the Test Development Committee. Oh yeah, let me put my hand up for that. Sit for like 20 years. I mean, come on, what have they got on you that, you know, you can't get out? They're not letting you out for more.

Yeah, AFP has really got me locked in and I absolutely love that organization. So, yeah, I took the CTP exam and not too long after taking the exam, actually I got a call from, from afp say, hey, we're looking for volunteers to participate in our test Development committee. And I have always been in the mindset of making sure I'm in the position to say yes when certain opportunities come up. Right. It doesn't always seem like it's the right time. Things can be really busy and hectic in your day job or in your personal life. But how can I position myself? Because not all of these opportunities come up. So when they do come up, okay, how can I be ready to embrace this opportunity? And so they called and I was like, they really want me to participate.

I've only just done my ctb. I've been live.

I was like, okay, this is fascinating. I want to know more. And I went to that first meeting and I still have very close friends, not just colleagues and people in my network, but friends that I met from that very first meeting when I started at the Test Development Committee. So that I'm actually on the board with them now, which has been. It's been a great journey. And so I've been involved with the Test Development Committee all these years and it's just been. It's nice being on the inside track. It's hard work, but it's actually really rewarding. Had an opportunity over the years to speak at conference here and there, whether a vendor or banker would say, hey, do you want to participate in this panel? That was very nerve wracking because I wasn't much of a public speaker as I was coming along. But again, saying yes and figuring it out along the way. And then just not too long ago got a call to participate in the conference playoff task force picking sessions in the risk management track. And so that became. That was also a really great opportunity because again, you got to see the inner workings of how Conference was built. AFP conference every year is like one of my favorite times. It's exhausting. If you do conference right, I say you leave exhausted because you just. So many opportunities to network and catch up with people and learn and then also have a good time. Right? So if you do fp, right, you come back a little bit exhausted, but it's really a really great time. So being able to participate in the task force and really to review the sessions was really great. And that's when I had an opportunity to meet some former board members, but to have some conversations with in 2024, decided to take the leap after some encouragement and put my hat in the ring. So it's been great so far.

So I think for any listeners, as well as you did the exam to develop yourself as a treasurer and treasure professional rather, and then you grew and then, you know, as you say, say yes first and regret later. Something and. But the fact.

I don't know if it would work for everybody. For me, that has been. I've been really successful at that.

And I think that's part of it because I. And we had this again with Gina Colis, one of our previous. And a lot of the other guys have had from the committee and things, and one from the board. And what I've said, and I've said this to a number of people, the fact is that you put your hand up, you know, get involved and everything else, but the fact is just by trying that it's, you know, you're gonna grow, you're gonna develop your skills. You know, I've said to people, I. I'm not up for public. When I first started, I wasn't up for public speaking 20 years ago. But now you just do it all the time, and it's a learned skill and it can help you and your treasury profile and everything else. Now. Yeah, now. And the other bit, I just wanted. There was another really good bit you said about going to the conference, which is fantastic. I'll be speaking, I'll be seeing you there, and lots of other people. But I did my session last year with Nicole Meyer and Summer Simmons. Absolute session. And we started our session and we had an official title for our session. We threw that away. We said AFP conference 2024. I didn't actually do it on a slide. I just said to the room what not to do. It was like, this is what we're telling. But what we also I talked about, I said to the room, who's been here before? And half of the hands went up. It was quite weird about 50% of hands who hasn't been here before the other 50, you know, so 50 have been 50 had. So. Right. I want you guys to talk to the you guys because this is a marathon, not a sprint. And Summer covered it really well. She said, take some time out and things. So I said, look, later on when it says free bar, walk away or have one and walk away. This is a Sunday. You got. I've seen broken people on a Monday afternoon.

Do not go. Don't go hard. That's the wrong. Don't. Do not do that. It is.

Pace yourself.

Yeah, pace yourself, please. Because it'll. It'll be all worth it, but absolutely pace yourself. Yeah. There have been times at conference where I'll be like, okay, I just want to run back to my hotel room a little bit because I need to, like, get away for a little bit. Because you see so many people, you're having all these conversations, you're like, okay, just let's take a breather. So I go hide a little bit. Everyone's fine. It's coming from a place of privilege. I've been able to grow my network and know so many people. And it's like, okay, maybe I know too many people in this room. I'm going to go hide for a little bit and then come back and continue on because it's so fun.

Yeah, well, I've done it. When I've come back from a couple of conferences, like AFP or you're somewhere and do them and walk in the room. And my wife is like, all right. I was like, yeah. And I like the half hour of not speaking just because it'll be the first half hour. I've not spoken constantly for three days and it's just like, oh, okay, just let me just. It's fantastic. But just like, just me type something. So, okay, so we. We got to. Then you making the move. So you're working for Illinois Tool Works. What happened next?

You know, decided I'd gotten to a point at Illinois Toolworks and I didn't know if there was a next step for me there. And again, very career focused, looking for that next role and path. And I told myself, okay, if I'm going to do this, I should start getting myself ready, mentally ready to take that leap, looking for another job. It's not a concept I take lightly. I was the only one to work forward six and a half years. So you build a brand there, you build a social network there, and then you leave it all behind and start over. That for me is a nerve wracking concept. And then as I was kind of going through that, I got a call from a recruiter and it was about this JBT job. And so I had a conversation with the HR person at the time and then she's like, okay, you're going to meet with Greg Packard who's been on your call before and it's been great. Immediately went and LinkedIn, stalked him and saw that he was connected with John, who I mentioned earlier before, who I worked with at Illinois to work for a while. And I called John, I'm like, tell me about this Greg guy. So he's like, I'm interviewing with him, he's like, oh, you'll be just fine. And sure enough, he was right. I was just fine. And we hit off really well. And it was again one of those things where I came in and there was a lot to learn. I was drinking from a fire hose. I had a unique experience when I first started at jbt. The gentleman that I was replacing, he was moving and so he wasn't. He stayed for like a month. I had a month of transition. You don't usually get that, usually taking over a job that somebody left and trying to pieces. But I had him for a month and so I took everything I could take from him, his brain at that point. And at the time the company was going through some transition. We had spun off from our prior parent and the company had been stagnant for a little bit and some new leadership, a new CFO and CEO had come in and trying to get the company to grow and develop into this food platform that we are now. So when I started, they started the acquisition activity which again was in my wheelhouse because of my work at itw. So that was really exciting. So I was learning treasury from a new landscape because jbt, though very similar to ITW segments in the food space, a little bit decentralized, global, diversified big bank groups. There was still treasury from a different. They still did Treasury a little bit differently. And I was like, well that's not the way we did it before. And so learning certain things a new way was a little nerve wracking. Yeah, a little bit, but obviously very rewarding. And it became this journey over time of, you know, we, we had put in a shared service center again, we were doing all these acquisitions and so there was a lot of opportunity for me to learn whether, you know, figure changing up our capital structure, which is very different from it was when I first started opportunities with our international business units. And whatnot. And Greg was just really purposeful about inclusion and including me in meetings even. I started at JBT as a senior analyst and a lot of times you don't see senior analysts in some of these meetings. And Greg, we have small department. So Greg was like, nope, coming in a meeting, you're going to learn. And I say this to my team now too. You may not catch everything that's going on, but the more you're in these rooms, every time you're going to pick something up. And as much as I want them to obviously stay with JBT morale and be around, they need a knowledge base, they need to learn. As soon as you get that knowledge, nobody can ever take it away from you. Right? So I tell them to be a sponge, manage their capacity, right. Because we're constantly in meetings and whatnot. But I will invite them, they want to take part and continue to learn. I am here for it because I want them to have the opportunity to build their skill set and be a very well rounded treasury person.

And just I gave that headline speech about JBT unites JBT and morale and stuff. When you arrived, what were JBT and who are they now? And then we'll go back into your career path. So yeah, because I always like, to the listeners sometimes, you know, work in totally different industries, but then they go, oh, actually that's quite similar to us. Well, that's very different. Yeah, just talk us through that briefly.

Right. So when I started at jbt, we had two divisions. We had our food tech division and we had our Aerotech division. Again, we were a spin off from another company. And so they'd spun off these two divisions, the food manufacturing space, a lot on the poultry side, some beverage, things like that. And then on the Aerotech side, ground systems, equipments, the jet bridge you walk on to get onto an airplane. Two things that really didn't mesh. And so we were constantly different, playing who we were to investors and maybe a little bit to ourselves as well. But the board and our leadership were really on a path to get us to become a pure food play company. And that's what we were striving for in 23. Think about the calendar here. In 23, we divested the Aerotech business, sold it off to Oshkosh, another great company here in the Midwest. And at that point it was okay. Now we have the opportunity to do something transformational in the food space. And so that is when, not too long after the Aerotech deal was finished, we announced the Morrell transaction. And it really was bringing together two very complementary businesses. When you look at something for example like a poultry processing line, we now have this value proposition to the customer where we can be that one stop shop because we can offer that full line of products that the Tyson or another type of company would need to process that poultry, right? Same thing in the beverage, in the pet food space and then kind of growing those lines again, that value proposition to be that valued provider for the customer to where they can have one source of truth. I love to see the company grow because we've done a lot of bolt on and smaller acquisitions and anybody who's done acquisition work knows that you have some big acquisitions and you have some smaller acquisitions. Sometimes the smaller ones are harder to do than the bigger ones, especially if they're like smaller family owned businesses and trying to get cultures changed. But then this Morrell transaction really being transformational, you're bringing two companies that were very similar in size together. So you have lots of people, you have duplication from corporate functions, things like that. It's been quite the journey Since November of 23 when we announced the deal to get through funding, regulatory approval, getting the deal close to now, really working towards some meaningful integration and train those synergies that we talked about and touted from bringing these two companies together. And obviously delevering because we actually took on quite a bit of debt to get this deal done. But it's really rewarding because for my team, the way I've proposed it to them and they believe in, they're fully locked in is we have this unique opportunity to build a Treasury department. We don't have to take just what we did in the past, we don't have to take just what they did in the past. We'll take pieces from each and then if there's an opportunity to just turn things on their head, we have an opportunity to do that now because we can build our department from scratch to now make the best function for this combined company.

You and I have talked about this and I've actually talked previously to Greg Packard, your ex boss who's now, you know, headed off and stuff. Can you talk about how he was your mentor when you walked in that door? You know some of the previous boss, yeah, Greg's great. But what, how did he make an impact? What was he like as a mentor? So again, you know, I said to some guys in Dublin last week when we were doing one of our sessions that, you know, they were saying about, you know, we were having, they were having mentors. I said but what was in it for the mentor? What was in it for them on their side? Talk us through that relationship.

Yeah, Greg and I hit it off right away, and we got, for better or worse, probably similar personalities. So it was a great time for me to discover I could be myself in the corporate world, not have to put on airs, turn myself into some corporate robot, but still learn, still have opportunities, because he appreciated me for who I was. And he actually, some people take the learning and the training and say, okay, it's just part of the job. I think Greg just really, he really shines in that space. He's. He's a really great teacher and he knew how to explain things really well. And so one of the things that really worked for us is not only did we have a great working relationship, but we could laugh and get along because we had a great personal relationship as well. And that doesn't always go for everybody. Some people like to just do work, but that's not how we worked. Right. We could go and talk about. He knew a lot about my family, I knew a lot about his. And so developing that rapport was really important. I was very open to him. Like, this is the point I'm trying to get to. I want to grow my career. I was coming, coming in as a senior analyst, but I didn't want to be a senior analyst for the rest of my life. And for him, he knew, okay, at some point I'm going to move on to something else or retire. I want to make sure you're set up for success. So that was all from a very early on, was our path together. It was outlined, it was discussed. And so it was, okay, what are the pieces that I need to continue to grow so that when these opportunities come up, I'm ready to embrace them in the treasury space, in the corporate world. He was, for me, one of the best allies I've ever had, not only as a woman in the treasury space, but as a black woman in the treasury space. As you can imagine, and as some people may not want to imagine, there's some interesting dynamics that you come across in the corporate world, but when you have somebody advocating for you and being an ally for you in that space and not allowing for any of kind of those dynamics to come through, it is really. I've been really lucky and privileged to have somebody in my corner like that to bring me along the path.

And you also talked when we had our conversation. But you got that role, senior treasury analyst. You're now the treasurer. So you've gone through that and Greg got you there. But I know you were conscious of being liked by the team, of being at one stage of the team member, then you have team leader and then you'll the full leader. How have you balance being approachable with sometimes difficult conversations? How do you do that? So how have you dealt with that?

That's really hard. You know, I think one of my spaces of opportunity from a leadership perspective is I do want to make sure I want to be somebody's friend. I want to be that trusted person. I don't want to have this kind of just very rigid mindset. So making sure I stay approachable. And sometimes when you build those relationships with folks, it could be make it harder to then not necessarily reprimand or have the difficult conversations and bring things up with folks, but I would actually turn that on its head and say if you do build those relationships with people, when it's time to have those difficult conversations, they're a little bit easier to have and they're easier to digest on the other side because that person knows that you're invested in them, that you have a good relationship with them and you're coming to them to help them get through whatever this issue is. So it's about building that relationship. And so for me and my team, we've over the years we've just been able to grow really closely together. And they know that I've done their job before. And I think that's one of the benefits for my team is I was the analyst at one point, I was the senior analyst at one point. All those roles I know so they could come to me and I'm not going to give them some, you know, overarching kind of high level, like I've been in the weeds. I know exactly what they've done before and I think that kind of helps them a lot because they know I'm not just giving advice from, you know, coming from a different place. I'm coming from I've done this before. So between my experience and having done those roles before, but then also just again being personable, being open to share, knowing that I'm not just going to come in and we're just going to work, are we going to go and we're going to eat together, we want to maybe go have a drink together. You know, I've met many of their families, their kids, things like been weddings, things like that. So that all goes in. I honestly think that is what is different, our Treasury Department versus other departments in our company, honestly.

And it sounds to the listeners. But you and I have had this discussion. It's all been smooth sailing, you know, just like an easy life. No, you've gone, but you navigate. You've gone through layoffs, you've gone through massive deals, imposter syndrome. You face these toughest moments. Someone listening, they're going, well, it all sounds great. But, oh, actually, again, you know, what. How have you overcome them? Or what's been your. How have you got through it?

Yeah, those. You know, it does sound like really great. Like I put in my time and I got.

Yeah, I was on the board. That's why, I mean, that's why I.

Professor, there's been so many bumps along the road, but there's a couple things. One, you surround yourself with the right people. You surround yourself with people that you think also have your best interests at heart. And then, you know, for me, being rooted in my personal foundation and my faith and what my end goal is, and it's important to have like no delusion of grandeur. If you think you're going to take on a role or go down a path, you're going to get there super smoothly. All you're doing is setting yourself up for success. And it's not to be a glass half empty person, but it's to be rooted in reality of kind of what the world is. You're going to come across situations that are really hard. You're going to come across conversations that are really difficult. You're going to come across people that aren't in your corner, come across situations, just worldwide dynamics like, you know, the economy or things like that are in your control. But you say, okay, how do I position myself to when these things come up, you know, they happen and I can come out of them quickly and continue on. My ultimate goal of being X or doing, you know, whatever some people's goal isn't become to become a treasurer is to maybe, you know, just continue to learn or whatever it may be. But what is your end goal? I used to hate when people would ask, well, what do you see yourself in five years? And I didn't have an answer. And it wasn't until I came into. Started really getting rooted here at jbt. Saw that I really had a mentor and ally that was like, okay, nope, this is what we're gonna do. And these are the steps and the roles to get you to climb the ladder. Here I was like, oh, okay. I actually see a path. That's the next role and that's the next opportunity. And then getting people in the industry and talking with them as well. And they took this role, then they took this role and, and this is how they learn. And these are the people that they know and these are the education that they got is okay, I'm going to be rooted in these things and be very purposeful. For me, my career is very important so I don't take these things lightly. And so this is my path. I'm going to stay the course. You're going to have craters and bumps along the way and I'm going to dig myself out because I know the end goal is still for me to get even further.

Our podcast is sponsored by icd. ICD are an independent platform trusted by thousands of treasury professionals worldwide to manage short term investments. One global treasurer recently told me it was one of the smartest technology decisions they've made. No license fees, rapid setup and tangible returns. If you're looking for a smarter, simpler way to manage your liquidity, then head to find out more at our partners page treasuryrecruitment.com forward/partners and find out much more. Let's get back to the episode. So we had our pre chat as well and one of the things you talked about, that chasing dollars was never your thing, you weren't really focused on that. But when recruiters like me, amazing recruiters like me came calling and the money's coming there and you knew it wasn't the right thing, but you put down the phone on recruiters, you see, we never nearly fell out, but we never did. It was all right. I could understand the reasons. But could you again for the audience, explain how you got through that? You knew the money was there? How did you hold your nerve? Or knowing it wasn't the right thing.

I had that unique opportunity to be laid off from the mortgage industry and have to start over again before as terrible as a time that was. I learned so much from that time in the mortgage industry and then that space of time where I was out of work. I knew that's not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I was really young and I was making really good money. It was incredible. I was like, I can do all these things. This is not money that I grew up with. I wasn't really happy and I knew money didn't make, you know, you have this job, you collect this check every two weeks and he's still incredibly unfulfilled. I knew very young, fortunately or unfortunately, that that wasn't the end all be all. And so for me it was really about that starting over you know, the grass isn't always greener. Maybe sometimes it's a little less brown. But do you sacrifice all the work you've put in, all the social capital for maybe just the dollars? Are you really taking the right step in your career path? And for me, the way it had been, it's been set up for me here at JBT is this opportunity for growth. But I also was at a company that was growing, so there was an excitement of what was next to come in the company. Right. So it's like I could drum to another senior role or I could jump to the manager role. I could do that. But then am I really integrated into business? Do people really know me? Am I still just constantly trying to learn about the business and figure out who to talk to? Part of what makes my job and my job is not easy, but what helps me on my day to day is even after 11 years here at JBT Merrill and there's been changeovers, like somebody can say, hey, do you know who you talk to for X? And I was like, yeah, I do. Because I've been here so long, I put in my time. Yeah, you know, like, hey, do you know what happened when we did this transaction? Well, yeah, I do know because I put in my time and I've been here and I stayed the course. And again, there was a pretty defined path. I knew where I could get to if it was set up to where I was like, okay, I don't know, I don't know when he may retire or there may be some roadblocks. I don't know what's going to go on with the company. I would have been a little bit more interested in having some of those conversations. But for me, like, I had put in so much effort, I wanted to see it through. Honestly, it was like, if you're on a certain path and this is what you want to do, you got to see it through. If you keep saying, all right, I'm going to try to something else and then go down that path it's taking for me, in my mind, it was like, it's going to just take me even longer to get to that, to get to that role. So being mindful that the dollars don't make, I mean, the dollars make a difference. You want to make sure you're well paid and you know, we put in a lot of work, a lot of hours and you want to make sure you're properly compensated and there's nice things that come with that, but you can't take it with you. So while you're here, are you fulfilled? Are you probably feeling fulfillment doesn't always come through money. It comes through experience. It comes through, you know, who are you interacting with on a database? Do you feel like, if we're just talking from a work perspective, what is your company trying to do? Do you believe in the mission, things like that.

And that segues nicely as if it was planned. And we did some rehearsal into your sort of mindset, personal development. I know that you've talked in the past about how you've dealt with anxiety in your position, and then you work with an executive coach. What have you learned about that? How has it helped you and how has it helped your leadership sort of thing?

Yeah, being very open and honest with myself and the people that I work with I think is really important. And some would probably maybe disagree with that level of vulnerability, but it is just who I authentically am and getting to that pace. And you talked about it a little earlier about imposter syndrome or the anxiety. And those things get heightened when you're trying to be somebody that you're not. And so that is not energy I want to give. I want to make sure my energy is put in the right spaces so that I can be successful. And, you know, a lot of people deal with anxiety, deal with it in different ways, and it can become crippling. And I want to make sure that the things that brought up my anxiety, that heightened my anxiety, did not cripple me. When I took over the treasurer role, it was a very short transition period, very early on in the transaction, trying to get this Morrell transaction done, I'm like, I'm taking over now, and this is the amount of transition time we have. And so I just got very nervous and very anxious of the surprise, of the timing, the very short amount of time of transition with this desired, with this other side of, well, this is what I wanted, and this is what I work for. This is what I thought it was going to look like. But I'm here, and I want to be successful at this. And thankfully, I just had the foresight. There was a thought came to me. If I'm going to be successful at this, I need to make sure I have the right support, and I need to make sure I get help. And I was. Not that I didn't believe in therapy before. It was not something I'd done before, but I'd found a lady through my church who's been a therapist but has a coaching practice. And so I reached out to her and I said, Jackie, I need help. I need. I want to be successful. But here's what's going on, and I am very nervous and anxious about it because I'm not quite sure 100% what I'm getting myself into. I've been here a long time, but there's some other dynamics here. And having somebody that I can lean on because I'm still working with her. So I've been working with her for a little over a year now. Somebody I could say, this is what I'm feeling, this is the anxiety I'm having around this meeting or this person or this relationship or just managing, all because it was so heavy. And there's a lot of eyes, you know, getting all this funding, making sure the department stays stable through this transaction, working through closing the deal. And this integration is a lot of eyes and a lot of pressure on it. And I was like, I want to be successful. I don't want to get this opportunity and then don't do it. Well, because I put all these years of being in treasury to get to this point. And so she has been incredibly helpful for me to just navigate getting out of my own way, honestly.

And in association with that, you've built your personal brand and, as you've said, unapologetically authentic. That's one of your phrases and stuff is, though, for other advice for treasury professionals who feel they maybe have to be a bit more corporate. I've been through a similar thing with, over the past six months with my business coach, and she said, you need to get out there and give advice and do these Friday videos. And, like, really, you know, so we do the bit of advice on the Tuesday, then I do the bit of advice to camera and I'm like, the first few weeks, you're like, oh, really? Seeing this. I mean, that's why I've got a face for a podcast. You can see this. But the fact is, now I had a YouTube coach, he approached me, he said, oh, you should be on YouTube. I'm like, no, treasurers are in LinkedIn. This is where they want the advice. And I said that I've had a quarter of a million impressions in the past three months. These guys love this stuff. And I'm not building the personal brand to go, hey, look at me, Mr. Treasury. I'm doing it because this is what my audience, like yourself, want. And that's why. That's what I'm talking about. On stage at AFP conference in Boston, Meredith Barnes and Sandra Ramis. We're talking about how those ladies have built their personal brands. And all I'm going to do a lot of the time is just repeat some of the stuff I've done. And that's what I think treasury professionals will do. But that's enough of me talking. This is your podcast. But what advice do you give to treasury professionals when they, you know, that balance between corporate expectations and you and how do you get the two married together or how do you do it?

It's a journey, right? Because there is that initial. You know, you create that basis of. You've got to make sure you're a trusted resource, that you're technically sound. Yeah, you can be a great person, but you can't do the job. Right. You can't do the job, but you're not also going to be able to do that job if you're doing. If you're in this struggle of. All right, who am I showing up as every day? You're only going to get part of your results going to be stifled by all the energy that you're putting into being somebody that you're not. I say that from personal experience because I'm trying to walk into a room of people that aren't like me, that don't have the same background as me, and trying to fit in and assimilate and play the part. But then I don't show up fully in my work. And what it then becomes is physically and mentally exhausting to try to be somebody that you're not. And so then I'd gotten to a point where I was like, sometimes you find some situations like, okay, I did that, and this has worked and this is the opportunity I've got from it. But it was a really painful path to get to that opportunity. Or you put in the work and it still doesn't happen. And you still have some negative interactions when you put all this effort, again, to be somebody that you're not. Why am I going through all of this? And it's not very fulfilling to me. And so I've just gotten to the point of, this is what you get. You know, I know what my value is and what I can bring to the table. I'm also still in the posture of making sure I am still learning and developing, because we will not, I'm convinced we will never know it all, especially in the treasury space, just in general, you never know at all. And so the point where I got to, I said, okay, you know what? This is who I am. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other people out there. But I'M not going to expense all this energy to try to be somebody that I'm not because I'm not going to be successful in my role. You know, whether it be things like aesthetic, things like you think about the corporate world. 20 years ago you wouldn't see people with tattoos or things like that. And it's like, nope, if I'm going to have my. You're going to see all these things about me. You're going to hear about the things that I like to do outside of work. You're going to get the authentic version of me because I don't have capacity to pretend. I really don't.

And if someone. You touched on it there. If someone listening is at similar crossroads as you were back in 07, you know, so quite a few years ago, but unsure of the next step, what advice would you give them? It sort of relates to that. If you like.

Well, some of it is building a network and finding people. Who are you surrounding yourself with? Because if you find. Because sometimes you compartmentalize it, right? You have this group of people that really know you and your yourself around and then these people are not. If you continue to build a network of people where you can authentically be yourself when you're in those other situations, it becomes easier and it just becomes part of your posture. Again, okay, I'm just gonna be myself. I'm just gonna be natural here and then. But again, being a trusted resource when it comes to the technicals is really important. So you can't say, okay, this is who I am. You're going to have to accept it. But what I've made sure I've done over my career is, especially at jbt, making sure I become that trusted resource and can be of value in helping the business and being technically sound. So they kind of go hand in hand. So people, I developed those relationships. People know that they could come to me, they were going to get good information, they were going to get a good corporate partner to help achieve certain goals or solve certain issues. And then as they got to know me, they really got to know me because they were like, okay, this is who she is. And I was comfortable. As I built the relationships, I was like, well, I've been working with that person. They know who I am, they know what I can do, and maybe I can actually just be myself. So it becomes this path and journey of a little bit of give and take. At times it's not always perfect, but if I try to just make sure I stay in that mindset of go in Your authentic skin, who you are. And what I've learned is most people are actually pretty receptive to it.

And you and I spoke before you go to an AFP board meeting tonight. So you're on the AFP board. You kept on saying yes to that, which is one of the reasons with, you know, I have Pat Culkin on the show, and we had a number of the board members and we, he and I talked about, you know, some of the biggest opportunities and challenges facing the profession at the moment. And you guys are the AFP being part of it. And it's, you know, now people listening today, they get a CTP credit, which is a great thing to do. But it's also, I didn't originally do this podcast to do this. You know, I thought we'd do 10. We've done 358, 360. Is that because I love talking to treasurers like you guys. So what are the opportunities, challenges you see coming down the line for treasurers? Then we're going to do the LinkedIn piece and then I've got a killer final question, which I'm going to do, but was holding that. But it's a good one. It's an easy one. But afp, what, you know, how are you. What challenges are coming down or opportunities, would you say?

You know, I think a challenge and an opportunity both for the treasury profession is going to be how do we bring up young people through this career? Again, as I mentioned in the beginning, it's not like you can go to school and get a Treasury degree. So how do we basically market our profession? AFP has been doing some great work with universities. And so if we can get more involved there, people out of school end up knowing, oh, treasury is an option. It's not just banking or accounting or other business roles. Right. Like, oh, treasury is enough. People find out about treasury, they go, oh, you guys do all of that? Like, yeah, we do all of that. I gave a talk to our. Some of our accounting folks the other day that were in from all around the country and explaining all the things that are captured in the Treasury Department. They're like, oh, that's amazing. Getting people getting a good basis of folks that we can bring along the career path. I'm really like, I got a pretty young team and so they'll be able to grow and develop. And then just from an industry perspective, it'll be interesting to see where things like technology and AI, how they affect our business. Yeah, I admittedly have not been a proponent of AI in the Beginning, I can see places where it is beneficial now as I'm learning more. But when it comes to money, we've got to be really, really careful because there's so much at risk. So when we're talking about AI for applications throughout our lives, there's obviously lots of implications. But when it comes to money, there can be some really negative implications. So I just think we need to be careful to not jump on these bandwagons of technology. We need to embrace them because they can be really beneficial and really impactful for how we operate. But we need to be really careful, not jump on bag wagons just because, oh, this is the newest trend and this is what everybody else is doing. Because does it really fit what we are doing in our space? Does it really fit what your company is going for, what your risk tolerance is? So I think we just need to be really careful with that.

Be aware of the bright, shiny things.

Exactly. Yeah.

And you and I, we're going to go to the closing minute, but we're not quite there. But we are going to meet AFP Conference Boston, which is going to be fantastic. And anyone listening today you can go to our partners page, treasure recruitment.com partners. You get a discount for coming to the conference. So you know, and also for CTP study. So that's why we partner with you guys and everything else. So that's a key thing and I'm giving that shout out. So, you know, go to the partners page, look for it. We're going to put your LinkedIn details in the show notes. So that's where you'll get a flood of people. And people said, oh my God, it's great. Loads of people connected to me that want to do and takeaways for today's show and I have got closing question. It's a good one though. So if you. What are your takeaways for someone that you know is in their career and thinking, I'm early stage of my career, this is great, what should I do? What decisions should I make? And for the more senior people, what are the takeaways?

Building your brand, Building your personal brand. Who are you when you walk into a room and is that authentic to you? Building your network, you can't do it alone. Create a village for yourself that you are learning from and that you can pour into as well.

Yeah.

And then be a sponge again. We don't know everything. There's so much to learn. The industry, the world is changing so rapidly, fast. You want to make sure that you are well rounded, you're up to date on all the things that are going on. You don't want to be pigeonholed into one space. So find opportunities to learn, whether it be within your company or outside of your company, like a organization like afp, there's lots of webinars. Your career is in your hands. It's only going to be as successful as the effort that you put into it. And yes, you're going to have people that champion you and bring you along the way. You want to make sure you have people in your network where if you need an opportunity, you can reach out to. But you are in charge. So don't wait for things to happen to you. You have to make them happen.

Now, I'm not going to finish quite there. I've got this one thing and it's not a trick question, so it's a good one. But it's like say you had that time machine or you had that cell phone or home phone or whatever it is, if you would have phone yourself when you were starting your treasury career. So when you've come out of mortgage broking and things like that and you're looking back and said, what's the one thing now that you know? Or a couple of things that you, you pick up the phone and say, hi, Sherry, it's me. It's like, wow, I'm 20 odd years. What were the things you wish? Or you reassure yourself just to reflect on that, if you like.

Yeah, I think, I wish I would. When you start in treasury, you think it's just this one path forward and this is what it looks like everywhere. I wish I would have started building my network sooner and I've made up for it over the years, but then finding other opportunities to learn so that I was more well rounded in the beginning. So I could have taken, I've maybe taken on some opportunities a little bit sooner, but I do think things happen for a reason.

Yeah.

And so being a little bit more inquisitive early on, I think could have benefited me as well. But you know, sometimes I also think somebody also asked me a similar question about this recently and about, oh, what, what was your, what's your biggest regret in your career or something like that. And I say, well, you know what, or something you wish didn't happen. They were talking about like the mortgage thing again. I learned a lot from it. There were things that happened in my career that weren't great, but I've learned from them and they've transformed me into the person that I am today. So no would I necessarily want to repeat some of those things that have happened. No. But they did add value in the end because I was able to find what I could take from those situations to then better myself, better my career path. And so I would say it's not even the bad is not always bad.

Love it. You've been an absolute superstar and I know you're going to catch a plane soon. Thank you very much Sherry, and looking forward to seeing you very soon.

Great. Thanks Max for having me.

Thank you. Today's episode of the Treasury Career Corner was brought to you with the support of our partners, icd. If you're looking for a smarter way to manage your short term investments, ICD's independent portal gives you access to a full range of investment products, integrated analytics and a simple centralized platform built specifically for Treasury. If you head over to TreasuryRecruitment.com partners, you can learn more and we'll be able to connect you with the right person ICD for both you and your business. Many thanks for listening to the show and thanks for your continued support.