Big Leap EP #32 - Conscious Eldering

Foreign.

Hi, I'm Gay Hendricks. We have an incredible episode of the Big Leap podcast that we're doing, including the art of the Breathgasm. What it's really all about is conscious eldering. Eldering in a whole new way. And what do you got to say about this, my young Whippersnapper? Young fellow? 54 year old?

Yes. Well, one of the things that you're going to be sharing and revealing is transformational, transcendent sex in your 70s. So if you want to hear about about that, or if that scares the hell out of you, you're going to love this episode because we're going to talk about dealing with regrets, aches and pains, something called gyrokinesis. And we've also got a couple of goodies. I'm going to go down a rabbit hole and talk a little bit about what I think is a magical substance. It's the closest thing I've ever found to getting rid of your aches and pains and feeling and looking younger. It's simple, it's cheap, it's super effective. And I'll be revealing the source in this episode of the Big Leap.

Conscious eldering, Gay Hendrix. What is that and why is this such an important topic to you right now?

Well, one reason it's important to me is I'm 76 years old and so I've been engaged in conscious living and conscious loving pretty much my whole grown up life. And so when I got to be about 50, 25 years ago now, I started thinking about what I could do to have a great elderly life when I get to that age. And it's working like a dream and it even has some benefits to it, things I would have never in a million years predicted. Which is. Well, I'll tell you a little secret. If you think sex is good in your 40s, 50s and 60s, just wait till you hit your 70s. Katie and I have had some of the most transcendent sexual experiences we've ever had since we've been in our 70s. And so I'll tell a little story about that later maybe, but just know that there are treasures to happen later on in your life that I had no idea were available.

All right, great. So I'm marking down transcendent sexual experiences in your 70s. That's definitely going to be a good hot topic. I've got a brief story I'm going to share that I hope will eliminate this. And it's also a little seed for an upcoming guest that I want to have. And I told you this as we're getting prepared today. Just came back from the Baja. Vivian and I were down there visiting Chip Conley, who is the creator and founder of not just the Kimpton Hotels, but the. So it's love of life, joie de vivre, I believe. I cannot speak French, so that's my American joie de vivre.

Joie de vivre. Yes. The joy of living.

Joy of life. Yes, joy of living. And so Chip founded and ran that chain for 24 years. And.

After selling it, he got a call from the Airbnb founders who brought him in. And initially they wanted him for strategic purposes. Of course, that was the whole goal. And it was all about helping them take over the world and do millennial esque types of things. Well, what Chip very quickly found out is what they really needed from him was his wisdom. And Chip had been wrestling with his age. He's now 59 years old, so not an old guy. But in the Silicon Valley world, where the world is.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And he's thinking about his transition. And look, after he sold his first chain, he had plenty of money. Money for the rest of his life. Never think about it again. And the ability to do whatever he wanted after Airbnb, it left him incredibly wealthy.

But what he did is he has been buying property, built this place, the Modern Elder Academy. And it's really, to summarize, as he says, the emergence of long life learning, that lifelong learning, and is a vision of creating a business to help people and create what he calls wisdom workers. And he's motivated by transformation. So the reason why I bring this up, and I think the tie in to this conversation, is conscious eldering. So many people get to a certain point and they start winding down. And you are not a winding down kind of person. Katie isn't a winding down person. You've got a ritual, you've got discipline, you're moving forward, but also you're so much about giving forward, giving back, and leaving, at a minimum, a massive intellectual legacy of impact. But I want you to talk a little bit about sharing wisdom, what conscious eldering is, and how you're approaching your mid-70s. And then we'll get to the sex thing.

Okay, good. Well, I was riding along in my car somewhere when I was around 50, and I heard an interview with the Dalai Lama, who was about eight years older than I am. And so he was 58. And I had to remember that because my older brother is exactly that same age older than I am. He's 84 now. And so the Dalai Lama at 58 was saying that he was beginning to turn more and more of attention to his death and to making the most of what he had left. And I started thinking about it, you know, I hadn't given a thought to my death consciously. And so I started thinking about how did I want my elder years to be. And I came up with a broad framework that Katie and I actually sat down and talked about, that we wanted to have it refined so that we were only doing what we most love to do, and we were only doing it with people that really thrived on it. So we wanted to go through a process of refinement. And at the time we were running a pretty big operation. You know, we had eight or 10 employees and we had a big building and yada, yada, yada. And so we started actually about that time, 25 or 30 years ago, doing our version of what I call right, sizing, some people might call it downsizing, but it's definitely not winding down. What it is is a process of refinement and like, big questions like, did we really want to own a building, you know, and did we really want or need three houses? You know, and we realized we've got all this stuff and. And yet. And we're making a lot of employees happy and everything like that. But we were feeling kind of stressed out. And if we kept going in that direction, we knew we were going to feel a lot more stressed out when we got into our older years. And so that was really the beginning of it. And so whatever age you are, that's probably a useful conversation to have with yourself and the people you love. Anyway, is, see, I went out of my way to create a life that I wouldn't ever want to retire from and a kind of a job I would never retire from. And it's come true times a thousand. Because my life now is basically full only of things I most love to do. Like, I woke up at 3am this morning. Sometimes I wake up at 4. Sometimes I wake up a little earlier. But I wrote for a few hours. And then at 8:30, I consulted with a client down in Puerto Rico for an hour. And then I went out and played some golf. And now I'm doing this. In the meantime, Katie and I had lunch. And so I really want to invite you, wherever you are and whatever your status is at present, to begin to think of how can I spend the rest of my life doing more and more of what I most love to do? So that was a really big question that's been driving the whole thing Also, Mike, I should mention too, that, see, I've seen probably 800 to 1,000 business executives in my practice over the years doing transformational work with them. And I would say probably that 700 of those thousand came in really stressed out because they'd missed a couple of signals in their 50s and 60s. And one big signal is.

Well, Eric Erickson at Harvard came up with something he said many years ago, which I adopted, which he said, after the age of 50, every moment is a choice between what he called generativity, which is basically creativity, and stagnation. And we put it in a different way here. We say every breath you take after 50 is a choice between creativity or stagnation. And there's a tremendous pressure toward going through the motions when you get up into your 50s and 60s, because a lot of times you've got a pretty good act going. You know, you're making money, you have friends, things are going pretty well. But what happens there if you don't make that jump to what's regeneratively creative in you, then life isn't very pretty in the 60s and 70s. And so a lot of my work has been helping people that got stuck in their 50s and 60s to pop out of whatever holding pattern they were in so that they could thrive later on in their 60s, 70s, and up into their 80s. Right now, the oldest person I've worked with, I believe is 85. And so that's what I know is up into the 80s. Maybe as medical science, we're going to have to keep inventing new decades for us to pay attention to. But I know people can feel happy, vibrant, creative, and alive up into their 80s because I've seen it with my eyes.

Well, that leads me to. I want to ask a couple questions, which I think the best way to frame this. And at. So I'm 54 right now, and I'm definitely noticing having some aches and pains. Like when I wake up or when I get up, it'll be like, oh, didn't notice that before. You know, those are new experiences and I don't like them. And I know that historically they get worse. Now, I'm going to do one little interjection story, which is I have discovered the miracle of peptides recently. And I don't know, have I told you about peptides? Did I go down that path?

I don't think so, but I've heard it now from about 16 different directions. Give me your peptide wrap.

I'm going to give you the peptide wrap. And then I'm Going to get to the main question I want to ask you. So I'm going to just.

Plant this for you right now, which is dealing with aches, pains and degradation to your body. So you know, that becomes, it can become overwhelming, it can become a massive distraction and.

Staying focused on creating and delivering value in giving back. You know, this notion of my interpretation of conscious eldering is transferring your wisdom, it's transferring.

This knowledge, passing it along in a meaningful way and keeping those conversations rich. So that's the question. But I'm going to tell you about peptides really fast here and give you the quick commercial.

So I broke my collarbone as of right now, 12 weeks ago. Massive pain, unbelievably.

Painful. And everything, you know, your structure, your body is dependent upon this little pivot point. It's kind of like having a house without a, a basement or like having two walls missing. It's like nothing is stable. And after the bone healed, my ligaments, muscles and shoulder joint was just excruciating. It felt like someone was stabbing me with a nail. And I go down the rabbit hole and start discovering peptides. Now the peptides are basically, I'm going to give you the non doctor version. And by the way, I'm not giving medical advice or playing one on the Internet right now. This is my personal experience. But.

Peptides are basically little proteins and they get activated. And we've got tons and tons of peptides, but they activate different parts of your body. I found One, it's called BPC157. And when you inject it you can get oral ones, but injections are generally the best. And there are places online you can buy them that are safe, but they have to be sold because they're not FDA approved. Government doesn't like them. Drug companies don't like them because.

They don't make any money. They're not patentable and they're really cheap. You reconstitute them and you inject them. And as long as you get the dosage right, I noticed my pain halved in four days. In two weeks, pretty much all gone. And a byproduct of BPC157 because it's made from gastric juices. Is my gut healed? I haven't had any gut issues and I've always had them for 30 years. And I have half a colon from cancer now, so that was one. And then I've also found some others that activate your growth hormone. There's some that are really good for your brain and there are some Russian scientists Russian tests, they're not published in the states that have shown that, I believe it's called Tess Morlin, can extend life by seven to 12 years. So there's like really remarkable research being done on this, but I've been using a variety of them with great luck. And I feel better than I have in 30 years. I mean, I feel like I'm in my 30s right now. Aches and pains are gone. Optimum brain. Good. You know, I'm just energetic and it, it's directly related, no question about it, from them. So.

So who knows how long that'll, that'll work. And these are getting isolated. They're being researched. The next few years are exciting, but if you don't have the hacks, you still have to get past the mindset because, you know, have. After having a couple near death situations now and going through these kinds of pains, I know what the future may bring. And you want to. In my opinion, it's about quality, not necessarily quantity. And I'd prefer that death shows up and takes me by surprise quickly, like in hours or a couple of days instead of years.

Yeah, that's my philosophy too. I don't go for the whole decrepitude, decline and decrepitude idea. Well, that's very fascinating. I'd love to get a recommendation from you sometime about that and how to do that.

And I'll send you a little video showing you everything I've got, a little private video just for, just for my connections and friends, so I don't have any legal issues ever show up. But yes, consider it done.

Okay, good. And keep me posted on the results of that. But now, what was the question that was underneath six years ago?

Yes, it's framing. Aches, pains, degradation to your body.

You know, how do you manage that mentally and elegantly while still holding onto that mission, that focus, that love of creativity and giving back and sharing and passing on your wisdom?

Well, actually, Katie and I did a lot of thinking and anticipating about that when we began to talk about this 20 or 30 years ago. And what we came up with was we wanted to create a lifestyle that allowed us to get the maximum amount of body stuff, body work, yoga, myofascial release. And so we do a whole bunch of things like that kind of as much as I can get my hands on. Like two days ago, I did a session of gyrokinesis with a teacher that I online, Kathleen Murakami, and I do that once a week and I work out at the gym three days a week. So we built in a kind of a preventive strategy, by the way.

Well, I've never heard of it before. I don't know what gyrokinesis is. Can you just tell us what that is and then continue on?

Yes, look it up. It's part of a thing. There's a machine version. It's kind of like, you know, you can do Pilates on the floor or Pilates with the machine, where you can do the gyro stuff just basically without any machines, which I prefer. But they have a machine called the gyrotronics machine that you see in gyms sometimes that helps you do these spiral movements. But basically it's oriented around a number of spiral movements that move your spine in different spiral ways and that flexes up things enormously. And it. Yes, there you go. It prevents a lot of pain that I used to take for.

Listeners. I'm showing it on screen right now. Jyron. It's gyrotonic.com is the page, but keep going.

Their non machine version of that is called gyrokinesis. But yeah, I use it for prevention of pain instead of to get rid of pain. And it works really well for that. Since I started doing it and the other stuff I do, I go out and play a round of golf three or four hours, and I come back and I have basically no pain. Whereas a lot of the old guys I play with around talking about different types of pain. So I tend to avoid them as golf partners. But yeah, I think that first of all, I recommend a preventive strategy of doing all sorts of things you can to keep your body moving, because, you know, it literally is use it or lose it. It needs to be moved. And so anything, you know, we say here, if it's physical, it's therapy. And so whatever you can do to keep that flowing. I also take a whole range of supplements that Katie puts together for me. And honestly, that's not my area. And I let her be the genius in that area. And I hardly even ask her any questions about it. But she has all sorts of potions and pills and supplements and things that we take that I believe help the body keep from holding on to pain. Because I have a remarkable lack of pain in my body. My knees are kind of shot. And so I do have pain in my knees from time to time. But compared to, I would say 20 years ago, I'm in much less pain in my body than I was back then. And so I really feel happy about that. And of course, if you can hook me up with the peptide guy, then who knows? I'll be cranking out these podcasts when I'm 106.

Good. Here's what I will say to everyone. I buy my peptides from a place called peptidesciences.com I will share that much. And if you do a little research online, the subreddit on Reddit.com, the subreddit peptides is actually pretty good. There's people who know what they're talking about there, and there's a couple websites that have good dosage, including Ben Greenfield and Dave Asprey. Both write about them in detail. So I'll do that. Now I'm going to ask you the question about transformational sex in your 70s. But before we do that, I'm going to do a tiny little commercial which is.

If you're enjoying this episode, make sure that you leave a review, whether it's on YouTube or on Apple Podcasts or wherever it is. Also, if you can rate, review and share it, it would be really, really awesome because Gay and I don't put ads in the podcast. The second thing is, if you want more information, some goodies that we give away, text the letter BL to 858-434-5316. It's also in the notes. You'll be that way. You'll get notified of new episodes as they come out. And also we've got some special goodies that we give away only on that channel. Otherwise, head on over also to bigleappodcast.com and learn more about Gay and my Big Leap Experience. We call it the Big Leap Year that's coming up. There's a big button on the website you can click and apply and learn more where you'll actually get coached by Gay and me for a whole year. So now the big question, Gay. You ready to answer it?

Yes.

Transformational sex in your 70s. The audience wants to know.

Well, this came upon Katie and me by surprise. We've been together now, this is our 42nd year. So we met in 1980 and we're entering our 42nd year now of being together. And we've always had good sex and sometimes great sex. But what's been happening in our 70s, I think is a direct result of all the breathing and body work we do. As you probably know, I've written several books on breathing, including what was at one time the world's best selling breathing book. Odd distinction to have, but I'm kind of proud of it, called Conscious Breathing. That's the name of my breathing Book that's been around now for 25 years and still widely available. And I've written a couple of other books, one on breathing and sex. And so I'm a big believer in what Elizabeth Barrett Browning once said, the great poet, she said, those who breathe most air live most life. And so many years ago, you know, 40 years ago now, I developed the whole breathing program and be to teach breathing in our seminars. And so we've taught and experienced a lot of breath work. And I believe that the breath work part of the work we've done prepared us for what was going to happen in our 70s, because.

Several years back we started having these things that happened when we made love that I call breathgasms. And what happens is our breath will kind of synergize together and then will amplify and get bigger and bigger and bigger. And that'll have its own peak and climax that's different from an actual physical orgasm involving ejaculation and orgasm on Katie's part. And so that was a surprise. These things called breathgasms started happening. The first one, I didn't think much about it. I just thought it was a fluky thing. And then it happened again and again, and now it happens every time and.

Just happened last year.

Like, can you share. Can you describe the breath work that you do? And I'm just going to play the dumb guy right now, because I am the dumb guy, which is, what's the exercise? How long does it take until you start noticing the results? And when do you start experiencing breathgasms along with sex? And do these require intercourse or is it mental? Like, what's the physical experience? What's the mental experience like? What's going on and what leads to this?

Yes. Well, first of all, if you want to dive into breathing, and I highly recommend you do, there's some really great books on it. Get my book Conscious Breathing, because the exercises are all in there. There's another good book that recently came out. I think it's just called Breath. It's kind of an introduction to the field. But conscious breathing, my book has the specific activities in it. And one thing we teach is what we call the yes, breath, which is a way of moving your body so that your body moves with the breath. As you breathe in, you extend your spine, and then or flex your spine, and then as you breathe out, you extend your spine. And so there's a breathing practice that involves letting the whole breath through on the in breath and the out breath so that it moves your body. And as I Say, all the instructions for that are, you can get videos on it free on our foundation website, the foundation for Conscious Living. Or you can get the book that has a lot of videos that go along with it. So it's easy to learn the process because it really only takes a few minutes of doing it every day. So what happens typically is we'll start to make love with each other. You know, different kissing and stroking and those kinds of things. And then these breath gasms will happen where suddenly I'll go.

And there's a kind of a rollover. And so it'll happen sometimes before we actually physically make love.

But it almost always happens after we have a physical orgasm. We'll be lying there together for a while and then all of a sudden a breathgasm will kind of come out of nowhere. And it almost seems to surprise you. It surprises me oftentimes because like last night, it was probably about a minute or two after we both had an orgasm that a physical orgasm. So it didn't happen right away, it was maybe a minute later. And then all of a sudden there was this.

Big urge to breathe and then another big one. And they keep escalating until there's a rollover point and it has a wave of bliss that comes along with it. That's kind of like a spiritual version of a physical orgasm. You know, I've never studied tantra and all that kind of stuff, but I imagine they have whole language for it. Maybe this is what tantric sex is all about, but I don't know because I haven't really looked into it. But I'm just happy to invent whatever we've invented myself because I'll tell you, once you kind of get that.

Breathgasm feeling in your body, it's almost like you can do it anytime, you know, like I. I was doing it today while I was playing golf, you know, I was walking up a hill and I started breathing and suddenly.

Here came this big escalation of the breath and then a rollover point. You know, it didn't feel quite as good when I was making love, but it had a very nice body feeling to it. So I think it opens up an energy channel, maybe that then is open all the time. So.

I'm kind of in love with that right now. It's one of the best things that's happened over the last couple of years.

I, I love this. And I, I while you were speaking, I created a quick link for everyone. So if you're listening, you can get conscious breathing@bigleappodcast.com breathe and. Or breath rather. I just made it breath. B R E T H. And.

As I'm listening to you, I'm sure there's all kinds of Hindi, Hindu, like you say, there's a tantric language to this. But the truth is, the truth is the truth. And it seems to me that when you train your nervous system to experience, you know, there's plenty of ways to trigger this and know the gateway to consciousness is through breath. We, we know that to be true. There's all kinds of great things going on. And that other book you were talking about, I think it's James Nestor is Breathe. The book Breathe, which is good. I did read it and he spent a lot of time also Wim Hof breathing is another thing you can look up online. And Wim Hof is this guy, they call him the Iceman. So he has some of the.

I've heard of him, yeah.

And there's a whole following that follow him because he can overcome all sorts of pain, cold and heat resistance. He's known for climbing up, I don't remember if it was Mount Everest, but one of the highest peaks without oxygen because he practices this stuff. And he's also been able to poison himself with snake poison because his immune system is so strong. And then he's also done a marathon in a desert without water, you know, barefoot. So his heat and cold resistance is through the roof. And he says it's all because of his breathing. So that's beautiful. And we're getting off topic a little bit from conscious eldering, but I love the direction. So I think the other thing that I'm curious about for you is can you talk a little bit about dealing with regrets and staying present, not getting sucked into the past or your egoic pain? Because it seems like I've known lots of elders and they focus on their negativity. And I think once you start experiencing body pain and a lot of emotional regrets and a lot of egoic regrets, it takes the joy out of life. And one thing I know about both you and Katie is, you know, I consider you both to be mentors and friends, but you're always so positive and loving and it's not a made up thing. It is so real all the time. So talk a little bit about dealing with regrets and remaining in that positive space.

Yeah, well, you know, sometimes you hear people say, oh, I don't have any regrets. Anybody that says that is just BSing you because regrets are part of human life. And I think the best thing you can do with regrets. What I do and what I recommend in our work is open up and acknowledge what they are and be honest with them yourself. And same thing with old resentments, things that aren't pleasant to think about. But somebody.

Abused you in some way a long time ago, and you still have resentment about that. I think what the best healing move we can make with all that is to kind of be wide open to that, transparent to that, you know? Like, I made a list once of different regrets I had, and some of them go back a long way. Like, I regretted stepping on a kid's ankle in a football game one time, and I don't know if it broke it or not, but I could have avoided stepping on his ankle when I really thought about it. So, you know, going back that far. And also I have some regrets about family members. Like my daughter, for example, who was.

She's in her early 50s now. And so I was married briefly to her mother for a few years in the late 60s and up until 1971 or so, like, about four years. And it was a very painful time of my life. And in a way, my daughter was the only kind of bright spot that came out of that. But then after we got divorced and everything, I got into custody, nightmares and all that. So I think my daughter still pays the price of that today. And I feel that as a significant regret that I was so unconscious at that particular part of my life, and I don't know what to do about those kinds of things. You can't change the past, obviously, except do your best to be in dialogue with whoever the person is. And so. But I've come to a different place now with those kind of things, and I think it has to do with making more space for them. So I think that you can. I feel like now I can entertain a regret. I can feel a regret without being so attached to it that it pulls me into some kind of a bad mood or into a downward spiral in some way, kind of letting go, letting it be. Be what it is, allowing it to change in whatever way it could possibly change, but not being attached to it changing. And so I think that what makes things stick in life and sticky in life is our attachment to them and not being willing to have some breathing space around them. So that's kind of where I am with the whole regret process. Okay.

That is powerful. And as I was listening to you, I'm thinking about, like, what's my means of working with it? I mean, avoidance is a cancer. And eventually something is going to cover it up and create a tumor, whether it's physical or emotional or spiritual. So I think that's the best way is.

When you're aware that something exists and you can become a non judgmental observer and see it, acknowledge it, recognize it, it doesn't have the same control over you. So I think that's incredibly wise.

Well, why don't we bring this episode to a close? I got a lot of really valuable ideas here, and I definitely want to go deeper in the breathing and explore that.

And, you know, as I've been married now 20 years, and one of the things that Vivian and I are always on the lookout for is, you know, how do we just maintain that passion, the desire, that fire, and for you guys to have that. And I watch it with you. I mean, I can tell when you're with Katie, I see the desire that you both have in each other and it is delightful, it's rare, it's precious. And I pray that I can continue to do that. I remember someone once told me they watched Vivian and said, well, I can still tell you love him because you laugh at his stupid jokes. And it might have been you who said that.

It's like, well, I have that relationship with Katie, too. She thinks I say is funny. So I just love her for that. As a matter of fact, when I first met her way back 40 some years ago, I was giving a talk to the PhD students and the professors at her graduate school where she was both. She was one of the professors there, but she was also finishing her PhD and.

Everything I thought was funny, she laughed like crazy about. And so I thought, I got to meet this woman. She has a great sense of humor. Yeah, well, blessings to you and Vivian, too. I've seen you go through quite a few reinventions of yourself. And, you know, it's all about openness to learning and being willing to unblock those. You know, you got to live without secrets if you want to stay high and clear all the time. There can be no secrets in a conscious relationship, not from yourself or anybody else. And as soon as you. Freud even said secrets make you sick. As soon as you unsecretize yourself, you've got a whole new life ahead of you.

Well, this is a conversation for another time in another episode. But Vivian has been away writing her memoir. And one of the things that she's publicly opening up and talking about is not only some of her darkest past, but our darkest past. Some things that the world doesn't know. You know, because I came to you Basically, as my therapist, when we were in our darkest of dark times. And. And.

So you're absolutely right. And the fact that she's in a place where both she and I have resolved this between us and now it's part of her story and she feels the desire, the need to feel whole by sharing this because it doesn't own her and it doesn't own me like it would. And to be. You know, I remember there were years when I'd hear about a celebrity or a public figure and they'd be open about intense abuse or betrayal in the relationship. I'm like, wow, why would you publicly talk about that? But it's because it doesn't control you. There's not an attachment. And to be free from the hook.

And I heard something when we were at the Modern Elder Academy with Chip Conley while I was there. The comment was something like, if the wound still bleeds, the trauma's still there. There's something along that line that was worded a little bit better. But if you get hooked when you talk about it, it's still present where if you can talk about it in an objective way and it's just a thing, you're free. And having that strength is incredible. So at some point we'll have to figure out what that is and have that conversation as another episode. Gay, you were going to say something though. I want to hear it.

Oh, I just had something flickered in my mind that we talk about in our seminars. We say anything that you're not willing to get up at halftime at the super bowl and say over the microphone to the crowd has got a grip on you. If you have any secret that you're not willing to reveal that much to, there's something there that's got a grip on you.

Oh, God, do I. I got a minefield, baby. You know, the truth is it'll be like, I know what I avoid. And. And that's some juicy stuff. So. All right, let's. I gotta figure out how to own that man. Oh, my God. All right, well, here's what we got. A little wrap up. First of all, again, we talked about the Big Leap. The Big Leap experience. You can learn more about that@bigleappodcast.com, check out Big Leap Year. I put up a little deal to connect with us. You can text BL to 858-434-5316. The other thing that we shared today and Gay talked about is the book Conscious Breathing, which you can get@bigleappodcast.com breath. So, as usual, Gay Hendricks, I love you. I love doing these things. It's always great to collaborate and co create and we are going to be talking about collaboration and co creation in our next episode. So thank you. What would you like to end with?

I'll just end with a big breath chasm.

All right, we'll see you in the next episode.

Sam.