‘​​Criminal Minds’ Star Talks Creativity & Trying New Things (Kirsten Vangsness) | The Big Leap #57

Hi, my name is Kirsten Vangsas. You might recognize me if you put a flower and a pen in my hand as Penelope Garcia, the adorable tech kitten from the longest running show in the universe, Criminal Minds. I get to be on the Big League podcast, which I am, I am so delighted by and also terrified. You get to hear Mike and Gay ask me questions and we talk about creativity. And I of course, talk about my vagina, which my mom keeps. Keeps betting me I'm not gonna talk about in every interview, but I keep not winning that bet. And we talk about the blinking owl distillery and we talk about Kirsten's agenda and we talk about all kinds of things. And I try to stay calm and be less self deprecating moment by moment.

Which is my pleasure to do in this wonderful podcast that I am gobsmacked that I get to be part of. And I know that sounds extreme and I know I'm drinking buddies with Pollyanna, but this is tr. I'm that excited about it. So do join us. Here we are.

Wow. Thank you, Kirsten. And yes, we talk about all sorts of stuff and invite you to meet this remarkable woman who is living in her genius zone and doing all sorts of amazing things with her life.

And all I have to say is, holy cow. She's brilliant, she's delicious, she's yummy, she's cuddly, really, really funny. A bundle of energy. Total joy to be with. So enjoy episode of the Big Leap inside.

Welcome to our Big Leap podcast. Mike and I have a wonderful show for you today, one that I've been looking forward to for a long time and so glad we got it arranged. We have a guest on our podcast today who's taken many, many big leaps in her life and really inspired me. And I have just fallen madly in love with her many years ago. And then I finally got to meet her a while back and she was even better in person than she'd been on tv. So I am delighted to welcome Kirsten Vangsness to our show today. Kirsten, thanks for joining us.

I'm speechless. I need to find my little recyclable paper towel because you just made me tear up. I don't know what. I don't know what it. What is it? I was thinking about this. I was like, what does it mean with my inner vitality world, when I get overwhelmed with joy, the back of my head hurts so bad. I don't even know what that's about, but you just made me smile so hard that you made.

You made me Feel good? I guess I. Did I blow your head off? Maybe that was the thing.

It's a joy gasm. It's a joy gasm for sure. I'm positive.

I'm so happy to be here.

Well, good. Let me tell you where I first encountered Kirsten. Katie and I love mystery shows. I don't think we ever missed a CSI and, you know, those kind of shows. Law and Order. And one came on the air some years ago called Criminal Minds, and we started avidly watching it. And rather immediately there was this one character that kind of jumped out at us and both of us, actually, I would say that we ended up over time watching the show primarily because of Kirsten, because I don't know if it's my imagination or not, but the show kind of turned darker and darker as it went along. As far as the kind of case.

It was not your imagination.

It was not my imagination. Well, that's good to know. But Kirsten played a character, Penelope, who was just kind of the.

Light to all the show's darkness. And Katie and I loved the wardrobe she wore. And it was just clear from watching her that she had a tremendous amount of depth to her. And so, oddly enough, and I don't remember how this happened, I remember Joni Davis had something to do with it, but somehow Joni introduced us to Kirsten and we, I think we FaceTimed. But I started following Kirsten on Instagram and then that really blew my mind because she was doing all of these unusual, different things and I was saying, where does she get all this energy and creativity from? So anyway, that's a little bit of an introduction, but maybe can I turn it over to you, Kirsten, and tell us how you first got to that place where I first met you?

I'm going to do a really glamorous thing right now, which is I'm going to blow my nose in this recyclable paper towel. So give me. I got emotional.

Well, we would be delighted to have any of your exes here on our show.

You've got my inside water all going. I'm going to get hives. I'm going to get really.

So, yes, Joni Davis is my therapist and she is genius. And, and I.

I know about gay and Catherine's, Kathleen's work through Joanie. And years ago, you don't know this gay? I can't believe I didn't tell you this before. Years ago, I'm, I'm doing Criminal Minds. I, you know, got this fancy day job through a series of, like, Weird occurrences that have entirely to do with just slogging along in the theater and making friends that, you know, started working on the other side of the table and. And whatever where.

I was doing the job. And I would often find myself upper limiting and. And saying, like, I'm. I'm upper limiting, and I need to, like, move through this. And I would say it. And I remember sitting around the roundtable and being like, I'm having an upper limit moment. I get out my journal ought to be writing. And sometimes you take so long time to, like, shoot things. And Matthew Gray Gubler, who plays Spencer Reed on the show, would say, what is that? He would say things. I said, you know, you might be upper limiting yourself. And I would tell everybody about your zone of genius and your zone of competence and incompetent and. But da, da, da, da. And I gave Matthew the big leap for his birthday. And still to this day, we text each other the big Leap quotes. We're like, big leap. There it is coming back at you. And I still have to text him today to say, I got to be on this podcast because he is. He is a big. He. He. He is part of. Of the. Of the admiration club of the Hendrixes. And, yeah, so I know.

Gays, not just your work, but just watching you and watching Kathleen, like, live life and be like, that's what it's supposed to look like. It's supposed to look like that. Like, I want that.

And it's so delicious when you sort of imagine. I think it's an important step to imagine who your chosen family members, who your chosen family is, your friends and your this. And it was like a dream come true just to engage with you, because I was like, oh, oh, he's following me on Instagram. Kathleen is following me on Instagram. And then I would go to therapy, be like, Joanie, Joanie, look. And Jody, like, yes, Kirsten, they're nice, and I'm friends with them, but you guys seem like people that live on that. On that other island where Wonder Woman was born. And so it's neat to hang out with the Amazonian geniuses. And then I got to go over to your house, and I got to feel like so.

Embraced by you and Kathleen. So it's a weird experience to feel like, oh, I am in this room, because we are simpatico. And I have to always remind myself that. And you gave me some very good advice that I was going to do in this podcast, and I might already be failing, which is gay. Told me last time I Saw him to practice being more, I could stand to allow more allowing. Is that what she said? Something like that.

Something like that. I think I was working on nonlinear receiving. Just letting the universe support you and the less effort you do, the more beautiful things happen. Where did you originally, where did you originally take a shine to the theater?

I loved it from when I was in. My father was an opera singer that couldn't, was sort of not doing all of the things that you really one would want to do to support one's life in any way. And we had moved to the Central Valley and, and he was still sort of like, he had this incredible voice. And so my dad would get cast as Tevye in, in, you know, Fiddler on the Roof and my sister would get, my sister, who's three and a half years older than me would get cast as one of the young girls who's about to get married. And I, at 7 years old would get cast as one of the old yenta friends. Like, so we did Bye Bye Birdie and I got cast as like one of the 70 year olds that shook her because I had bad posture. I was terrified of speaking. But I loved the environment of the theater but never really felt like I could fit in because I was very shy. I had a lisp, I was very, I was really bullied as a kid. I was really weird. I was, I had a hard time. My first grade teacher said there are no secrets in your house. And I had a house that really predicated itself on like, you need to keep these secrets in order to function. And I kept sharing and that was problematic. And so I, I had a, I wanted to be involved in it but never felt like I was. I loved it so much. I didn't feel like I was.

I, I, I, sometimes when I love something, I could have a hard time feeling like I get to stand in its, in its air and, and I, that's just one of those things that I get to like go roll around in my, in my life. And then I recognized, God, you're doing that thing again. And when I got into high school, my mom said, you can take shop or you can take acting. Because I had just stone cold stopped talking in eighth grade. It was just too much. It was like every, everything at home, at school, like it was just too much problem. So I just sort of started to just shut down. And I took an acting, this acting class in high school and, and our first two assignments we didn't have to talk and so I did my little assignments and I Got an A. And I hadn't gotten an A in anything pretty much, you know, and it felt so like, wait, what? And I was really good at it. And. And I never thought I was going to do it for a living. Never. My mother was constantly doing this weird, sort of hilarious, like, very sweet Rumpelstiltskinny kind of thing where she'd be like, okay, I found a. I found a scholarship that you cannot get. And then I would get it. Then she'd be like, okay, this is an exclusive class that only good actors can get in. Let's see if you can do it. And then I would do it. But so it was like one of those things where I just kind of like plug along and do it and just loved it so much. So it's always been part of my life, but never like a thing that I thought I could do for a living. And I think that I care about it so much. It's, it's, it's brought so much happiness to my life. Even before Criminal Minds. I'm a member of a theater company in Hollywood called Theater of Note. And you know, because of the pandemic, we're currently closed down. And it's a 38 seat theater. It's got one bathroom, it's got a laminated sign on the door that says in the one bathroom that says, when you're done with relieving yourself, please unlock this door. And I laminated that sign when I was a kindergarten teacher. Like I've been in a theater somewhere in my life, my whole life, and it's, it's brought me so much joy. So it's so delicious that I've gotten to get paid to act because I would do it for free. My manager keeps saying, don't tell people that. But I do it all the time for I just take so much pleasure in making things.

And I almost feel fear. And I wonder about this. I watch your guys show.

Well, it sounds like a real genius zone thing for you. And I'm always interested in how people connect up with those things and what keeps feeding that as you go along. Tell us about the big leap into a network television show.

I had a friend who I had done a play with and she. Her name is Gina, Gina Garcia Sharp. Very good writer, very good actor. And she wasn't getting cast anything. So she decided to work in a casting director's office to figure out why she wasn't getting cast and things. And.

She called me one day, she was working at a fancy casting office and said, will you come in and basically make me look good for these two lines. You're never gonna get it. And she would do that every once in a while, and I would go in, and it's a different mindset of, like, I have to do this thing. I don't have to try to prove to this person I'm the best person for this job. I have to help this person I love. I have to prove. I have to let these people know she knows how to do her job. So my way of letting them know she knows how to do her job is to be like, yeah, she. She brought in an actor who knows what they're doing. And there was something about that energy, and that takes the pressure off of me of, like. Because I've always been such a believer in love the art and yourself, not yourself and the art. And I can get a little freaked out when I think I'm just getting something. For me, it's something I need to. That I constantly, you know, work around. So it was very liberating. So I'd go in, I'd audition. You know, I get the thing. Or at least she'd get, like a. That person was great. And then this Criminal Minds thing was exactly like that. You're never going to get this. Went in, did it. They called me. I got it. And I was just supposed to be there for one episode. And they test you. They basically bring in audiences and have them watch a pilot and be like, what do you think of these people? And I tested really well. And so that was. It was really interesting because at the very beginning, and I feel like this right now in this moment, which is interesting, but, like, at the very beginning, I would drive into work and like, oh, they're. They're writing more for my part. You know, they're giving me more scenes with other big deal people in the show. And I would think to myself, but, no, that's not me. I'm the little scrappy. No one pays attention to me. I don't know how to do this. And I'd be like, but. But they don't know that. So you have to pretend almost you're this person, because you're never gonna have a moment. I'm never gonna have a moment. I keep hoping these moments. I thought today was gonna be one of those moments where I got to watch how cool I was because I was with cool people doing cool things. And there's never that moment. Like, I'm always, like, awkward. Like, Kirsten, who's like, no, no, no, we got this. It's okay. I'm always gonna have those little weird moments. And so it was a little game of, like, how long can I stay? Like, I'm. I deserve this. I'm okay. I'm safe. I don't need to.

Cover this with my own self deprecation. So it was like, days of that to, like, basically will myself into, like, now you're a series regular on the show. It was a weird. The first. I wasn't. So it was like a weird little. And I go through this a lot still, where I thought once I got it, it became a little game of, like, commerce and art, where, like, the show is commerce, I get paid for it, and it's no longer art. On a good day, it could be. But, like, then I go make art over here. And I've always had this little weird rule that maybe I want to break now, which is like, you can't make money if you're making art. Art is where no one touches it, and you're not doing it for money. It's not getting sullied by the man. And by the man I mean the character in the wonderful movie the Undercover Brother. If you've never seen that, watch it.

But did I answer your question?

Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of, in a way, it wasn't a. It was a big leap in one way, but it was actually one small step for Penelope, one small step for Kirsten, because you just had those couple of lines that you kept coming in with and then.

Something. This is off the wall here, but I've always wanted to ask a real actor this question.

I heard a story one time about Marilyn Monroe.

And she was kind of the big icon back during the 50s when I was growing up.

To me, she's.

Yeah, she's quite amazing. And.

Apparently she was walking down the street in, like, Fifth Avenue with a friend of hers, and they were having a quiet conversation, and her friend said, I guess this was a new friend. She said, one thing I don't get. Here's Marilyn Monroe walking down Fifth Avenue, and nobody's paying any attention or asking you for autographs. And Marilyn said, well, that's because I'm not being Marilyn. And she said, watch, I'm going to be Marilyn. And suddenly the street went crazy. You know, people are saying, oh, that's Marilyn Monroe. And they're lining up for autographs and things like that. I've always wondered, how do you do that?

Well, I don't. I don't totally have an answer. I know that there are. I call it days where I'M famous and days where I'm not. I know that I can Clark myself if I take off my glasses, pretty much because I played that character. I've kind of lucked out that if I want, you know, I do that.

But. And now we live in the age of masks, so you can also, most of the time, get away with that. I actually.

Was lucky enough to crash my own car in my own driveway, because it's a narrow driveway, and I've lived here for years, and this is the first time it's happened, so it's a good thing. I tore my own bumper off and had to get it towed. And I had on the mask, and the guy was like, it's Penelope. And for whatever reason that day, I had it on me. But I. I do know that it is an energetic kind of a thing that I don't always understand. I know. Conversely, I do a lot of theater, and I have done parts and shows where my friends are like, I knew you were in that show, and this is recently. And I'm. I value this about myself. We're like, I knew you were in that show, and then I didn't know that was you at the top until 10 minutes in. You know what I mean? So. So it can conversely happen. But, like, I'm lucky that I actually now, depending upon what I'm talking to someone about, depending upon how I'm engaging with them, I will talk to people. Like, I was dating at the beginning of the pandemic, and I'd be having whole conversations. People would be like, so, what do you do? It is on Zoom, just so. So everyone knows I was. And I mean it. I was dating on Zoom, which I highly recommend. And I was like, I'm. I play Penelope Garcia. Oh, I know that show. Great. What are you doing it. I play Penelope Garcia. Huh? Yeah. Yeah. So you know her? Nope, I am her. So you, like, you stand in for her? No, that's me here now. And. And so you, like, if I could have a long conversation with someone as Kirsten, and people are like, no, no, no, no, no, you're not. So maybe it's just believing that you are them. Maybe it's always different. I don't know. But then there's times where I've been at the supermarket and I'm. I've literally, more than once had to be like, okay, let's form a line. You, ma', am, can we borrow your pen for the next five minutes so I can sign things and do stuff? I think I've been lucky that. Because I've done so many performance things, but the one that people know me the most for is Penelope. That, like, everybody who sees me out in the world, if they watch that show, it's, it's. She's such a lovable character that people get excited and they just want to hug you and they want to, you know, like, they just want, they want to feel safe and they want to feel that sort of joy she has. And it's a real honor to be her steward because, you know, it's a little strange. But also, I, I get. I got paid a lot of money and I think they're going to do a remount of it on Paramount plus, so I will get paid a lot of money to play this beloved person that everybody loves, that I am clearly neighbors with. That's nice to, to, you know, jive with. Did I answer your question? I'm going to do the second time. Did I do okay?

Yeah.

Yeah. I was just wondering, like, now it's been a few years, couple of years since you've done Penelope. Can you still feel her in your body?

Yeah. She was there for a long time and she taught me a lot about.

Especially as a woman, especially as a.

As a woman, as a queer woman, as a. As a woman who's not a size 4. When you want to be an actor. And I think it's true for masculine, bent people, too. I think it's true for the heteronormative world, too. But it's like if. When you want to be an actor, you get told as a female, you're supposed to be a certain size, you're supposed to act a certain way, you're supposed to give off a certain energy. So to get a role where they were like, oh, no, we like your essence. We like your authenticity. And that is. Bring out more of that and to bring out that without the. Kirsten.

Is this okay? Like, I don't know. There's something about her that she taught me how to stand in my own power. And also, when you're on.

Tv, you know, my size would get. I, you know, I'm a body, diverse human being. I am, I am, you know, I can probably plank longer than most people, but I'm not tiny. And, and it was like that she loves herself, that she doesn't question. And, And I don't know, I want. I love that. And she's, she's taught me I have more moments of that in my life because of her. And, and so, yeah, it's. She, she has been. She's so dear to me that, like, of course I wouldn't like. She's always. And actually, funnily enough, during the elections, during the presidential elections, Mandy Patinkin called me up and was like, I'm writing some scenes and you're going to be Penelope and we're going to act in these scenes and for democracy. And I did. And it was like, it was all came back all just right there. No problem. So it'll take me a second. But there's a certain way she stands that I don't stand that I think when I stand like that, I feel her like, there she is.

Yeah. Well, Mike, you.

I've got a couple for you, if I could.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm going to start with.

A couple biz things and then I want to move on to a little hobby of yours that I'm really interested in. So the first one.

Well, in the beginning of Kirsten's agenda, the Ask Me Anything, you sang the intro theme music and it reminded me of something which was Mystery Science Theater 3000. Do you have any affinity for that old show, by any chance, to watch it?

I didn't. I wasn't allowed to watch TV when it came out. And then I never have watched it yet because you're not the first person who's told me that it.

It's.

Okay. Well, it's Joel Hodson Hodgson, which I. I knew from Minneapolis, where I'm from, and he used to come into my old studio years ago. So he's a comedian actor who really created that show with two other guys. But when I saw you singing, I'm like, you've just got to be a crazy MST3000 fan. So at some point, watch an episode. I think you'll love it.

Okay.

All right, so next one. Perform or produce.

At this point in your career, would you rather be an actor or do you enjoy the process of producing.

A lot? But everything that I produce.

Let me rephrase it. Like, I produced a movie called Kill Me Deadly.

It's like the Maltese Falcon 8, the Rocky Horror Picture Show. It's probably like mysteries. I'll make sure that I get you a link for it because I think you would probably really love it. It's completely absurd and amazing and I made it with my friends and it takes place in the 40s and I executive produced that. I gave a million dollars to that movie so that we could make sure everybody made a living wage and had health insurance and we didn't make money from it. It was like a b movie thing, but we made a thing like a very beautiful calling card. And I know probably 10 people who do their jobs that they did on that movie for a living now and support their families. So for me, that's, like, now, when I went to professional producers that I know and said, I'm making this movie, don't you want to help? They looked at me like I had snakes coming out of my eyes, because they were like, you're not going to make any money. So the way I produce things is, like, if I love something, I want to produce it. And I believe that the regular way of producing something is, like, we're going to produce it and make a budget and make numbers that go high up. And I'm not good at that part, and I'm not interested in that part. And that is not in my zone of genius. That is in my zone of incompetence. In my zone of genius is making things. Like, I'm very passionate about stuff to make. Like, I'm in the process of writing a play right now, and I'm so passionate about it, and I completely get in my own way, and I completely. You know. But the actual. I want to see it done how I want. So that is when I produce. I took a couple of plays that I wrote to the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh in 2019, right before all the stuff, and I produced all that, but I hired people to do all of the other stuff, and they were so happy, and they loved producing the real producing. And I just. This is me throwing money at them, and then they go do it, and then I go act the thing. So my dreams are to, like, act and do things that make the world a more expansive.

Sparky, inclusive place for everyone to just go make their joy happen. I want to make things that get people all, like, excited to make them run outside and go make their own thing. So they're so busy, they don't go watch stuff, and then they get. They need a break, and then they go back and they go watch things. That's. Did I answer that?

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I mean, at the end of the day, you're very much a creator creative, and you know your spot, what your zone of genius is and what you're not, and that makes you probably a great collaborator.

I know some girls that are making a documentary about women's history and stuff, and I want to help those things, and I want to help, but I'm not. I like. I like the creative bit.

Yeah. Okay, so here's the other one, which is both gay and I have been investors in beverage companies, including alcohol companies. And I know that you're involved with Blinking Owl Distillery, and as far as I can tell, you're a partner in it as well as a big advocate, and we want to know about that. So how did that come to be? Why did you get involved? How do you get involved?

The Blinking Owl Distillery. Oh, by the way, for those people who don't watch Kirsten's Agenda. Kirsten's Agenda is my YouTube show that I've done two seasons of, and so there's about 40 episodes, and they're.

Me trying to understand the stuff that Gay Hendrix and Kathleen Hendricks teach us. Not really, but a lot of it. I think a lot of it happens in there.

It's really a fun little show. It's a great little variety show, and you hold your own. It's funny. It's quirky as hell. It's very much.

Thank you.

That's one of the things, Kirsten, that really made me fall in love with you. In another dimension is Kirsten's Agenda, because to me, it seemed like such a great, purely creative thing that you just dreamed up and then carried it off through two seasons. You know, that's quite an amazing thing in itself to hatch something.

Thank you. Yeah. And that's actually the thing that made my boyfriend fall in love with me when we met during the pandemic, and he was like. He was like. I was like, I gotta tell you something. I'm on a TV show. And he had never watched it, and he, like, kind of didn't know. He's like, oh, I've got a kid. I don't really. I didn't know. I was like, well, I do this other thing. And I sent that. He was like, what? We must meet. Which is the kind of person you want to be around. So the Blinking Owl.

Great guy, too, by the way. I've had the pleasure of meeting him.

He is. He is. And we had such a blast. And you let him play Kenny Loggins guitar, which I think I.

Yes, I did have.

Not let him wash his hands. And he's a veterinarian, so there's complications. That's not true. Other veterinarians. He has.

You got to spread the love.

Spread the great veterinarian. So back to. Back to.

Back to Bourbon.

How did you get to Bourbon?

Okay. Brevity is not my forte. Here we go. I was starving artist, pre Criminal Minds. I. This is the kind of thing that we all should have in all the podcasts I had Never gone to the gynecologist. And I found a pelvic floor physical therapist, which now they're around. And anybody who's a female, anybody who has a pelvic floor, listen to this. This is a real wonderful thing that everyone should know about. They basically go in there and when they're done, it feels like tiny gnomes have massaged your vaginal walls and create blood flow. Even if you've had trauma or stuff happen that has made those muscles say, we, it is not safe, Wizard. You shall not pass. So I had gone to this pelvic floor physical therapist. I had no money, but I needed to do this. And we hit it off, like, amazingly well. It was really strange because it's like I'm sitting in this room with a perf, you know, this physical therapist and we're talking about, I'm an actor and I'd written this show, this one person show, and I was doing it in Santa Ana. I was charging $10 a ticket and just seeing who, you know, that was my way of, like making money as an actor. And I was making like 50 bucks. And she gets done treating me and she says, you have to come back. And I said, I, I can't. Like, I, I shouldn't even be here today. And she said, give me tickets to your show and just come back. You have to come back like three, four times a month. And I did. And. And then my fancy day job happened. Well, no, she comes to the my play with her husband, Brian Robin and Brian Christensen. And it turned out they lived right across the street from the theater I was at. And we become fast friends. And then I get fancy day job show and I'm doing Criminal Minds, and they always go to my plays and we're thick as thieves. And one day, six years in, Robin now has this thriving physical therapy business. And she's like, hey, Brian wants to open a distillery. And I was like, cool. And she goes, no, you don't understand. We want you to invest. I was like, no, I understand. Because I had just read this article about Rupert Grint, who plays, you know, Ron Weasley in Harry Potter. And he had bought, he had learned how to play the didgeridoo, and he had bought a hovercraft with his money. And I thought, I play the clarinet, which is my didgeridoo, and, and this could be my hovercraft. So I was like, no, I get it. You're just going to want me to give money. And it was never like, we're going to make Money. It was like, no, I get it. Like, let's, yes, go make that. And so we did, and we based it all on Robin and Brian. Robin ended up selling her physical therapy practice for a lot of money and right around then, which allowed just us three to be the original investors.

And we base it. We based a lot of the stuff on Dan Barber's the third plate. This idea that you can take care of the farmer, you can take care of the earth, and you can make a really good quality product and people will spend a little extra green for that. We have the most gorgeous. We're now a restaurant distillery in Santa Ana. It is two blocks away from the train station, so you could come from San Diego and just zip on over. We are grain to glass. We buy the grain from the farmers. We. We distill everything there. We make an aquavit that I have watched Norwegians in Berlin be angry about. It's that good. We make bourbon. We make a gin, a California gin, so it's not super juniper. We make a vodka. We make an orange vodka that tastes like an orange took you on a date, put on some Maxwell and is a really good kisser.

We.

It's just a wonderful place. And now we make this great food and we're getting all this, like, accolades for that. And I love going. I get to go and. Oh, there it is. I get to go and do tastings with people and. And we've won a bunch of awards. And it's just. And what I love about it that is different than Los Angeles is Santa Ana is a really beautifully.

Diverse environment that, like, it's not. Yeah, it's been a little gentrified, but it's almost like the people who've lived there forever have gotten to benefit from some of the gentrification in that. Like, if there's a lot of.

Latinx run businesses and it's still very art forward in Santa Ana. It's just it. And what I love about our distillery is that if that distillery was in la, there would be a very certain kind of population of people you would see there. And in Santa Ana, you've got teachers coming from work and yes, you've got Instagram girls who are taking pictures of our fancy cocktails, but it's everybody and they're all there having a time. And it just fills my heart with joy. And it's such a fun thing to be like, I own a distillery and that's actually what I put on my. When I was dating. I didn't say I was an actor. And no one questioned it because if you say you co own a distillery, everyone just assumes like you're not lying about that. And yeah, it's a really lovely. So many friends.

And, and it just, and it delights me. I've never been like a huge. I like enjoy alcohol and I can drink it, but I'm one of those people like who has a breathalyzer in her car. Not I do it by choice, but like a drink and a half in. I'm like, I'm done. But I love trying this stuff and I, I, it's such a great thing to have because there's so many philanthropic things that I care deeply about. It's really fun to donate alcohol to those places because those places I want people to get very drunk and spend a lot of money so I get to donate booze to things I care about. And yeah, it's really great. I can't, I can't recommend people coming and visiting enough. And you can also order it and have it sent to your home.

You know, I, I think we should arrange. I've never been in LA very long, so I actually am drawing a blank about where Santa Anna.

It's basically right. It's very close to Disneyland.

So it's, it's Orange County.

Okay.

Orange County. Okay.

So it's really close to. It's probably closer to me. I. So one thing, here's an idea. I'll see if we can arrange a Blinking Owl distillery, Big Leap Adventure, and I'll offline Kirsten. What if we do like a special meet and greet night and we'll just, we'll get some big ass crowd out to visit and.

That sounds delightful.

Oh, and I'm, I'm gonna place a big order tonight. So I, I had everything all set up on my phone and I didn't hit the order button. I got distracted the other night when I was researching you. But I'm gonna place a big ass order today.

Make sure I get your information because I, being a founder, I have a special. I get special things. So, So I might send you, I might send you a present.

Okay. We'll get hooked.

I don't always.

Yeah, I don't understand it always.

But sometimes Robin will be like, this has been in this particular barrel for three months. And then we played it music and then we touched it with this feather. It's very important and if you like booze, you'll understand the special things. But. Yes.

Well, not only do I like that, I like helping out. I have found that people who are involved in these businesses, especially with a farm to table mindset or grape to glass is a friend of mine who owns Dry Farm wines. He's one of the founders of that. It's like mail order wines and they, they're so cool. Just I love the mindset. So thank you for just creating jobs and opportunity and creating awareness around this. It's it really that speaks to my heart in a giant way.

So.

Oh, it's so great.

Well, those are the main ones. I have another one. But I want to pass things along because I know I can see Gay is edging on the edge of his seat here. And what was the other question that you had?

One of the things that I define as being in your genius zone is, is when you're doing what you love to do and you're doing things that make a contribution to other people's lives. And to me, Kirsten, you're a great example of living in your genius zone because we've only touched on a few of the lots of different things you're involved in. And I really highly urge people to go watch Kirsten's Agenda because it's some of the most brilliant stuff you've worked.

I'm putting it in the show notes for sure.

Yeah.

And.

Yeah, it'll change your life for sure. And you'll get a chance to look into the heart and mind and spirit of a genuine renaissance woman. And I think we need more of those in the world today. People that take their day job but then do all sorts of fantastic things with what you've created. And I love the fact that you follow your heart and you follow your passions and you're a hero to me and Katie. We watch you all the time to see what you're going to get up to next. And Katie and I actually made an offer to Kirsten which she took up, which we decided we wanted to adopt her as our honorary spiritual goddess daughter.

I have a daughter that's about Kirsten's age. But I always thought I wished I'd had two. And if I had another daughter, I'd want her to be just exactly like Kirsten. So that's why we adopted her.

My head's going to explode.

Pain.

I know I have a certificate. It's hanging up in my. Where I do Kirsten's agenda because I want everyone to see it all the time. And it's got my face. And they both signed it and I walked around. They sent it to me during the pandemic because we became friends during the pandemic. And I'm holding it, walking around my house, and I do this thing sometimes where I have a hard time remembering, like, what's happening. And I, like, have to invite my different ages in. Like, I wrote this play called Mess, and it's about how I believe that we're all the different ages we've ever been, all at the same time, and we ever will be. And we're always informing those parts. And I'm literally walking around the house going, who sent you this? Genka, Kathleen and Gay Hendrix. Why? Why? Because you're friends with them. We know them. No, we don't. Yes, we do. They sent this to you. You are their goddaughter. Who is. You are who? Kiersten. So it's a big deal to me, and I. I'm very happy about it, and that just means so much. And I hope people who listen to this podcast. I wonder if anybody listens to this podcast and thinks, oh, man, I've done a couple of things, but I still don't really feel like I'm a genius. And I want them to know that I don't feel like that. And that Gay Hendricks just told me that I was. So chances are you are, too. And I'm going to say you are, too. So just remember that. Because I think that we have these things that we put upon ourselves that you think that you have to be a certain way to be a genius or be whatever you have to be with it. And I'm not all the time. Like, I don't. It takes me a long time to get my things together and finish a thing, and I've. I've really stalled on the season three of Kirsten's agenda that you guys are now making me feel like it's time. And. And so I appreciate. I appreciate you saying that.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. I. I used. I. I've done those. I've done those. I think it. I think it does have to do with, like, doing a lot of different things because it's. I do one thing, and I think about something else. I'm like, we should do a writing lab. And now I'm doing the writing lab. And then I'm doing that, and then I'm doing that, and I get a little confused.

Well, you have wonderful. You need.

You need someone around keeping you on the rails. That's all.

Yeah. Just one last thing. We got to wrap up here in a moment, but anything else, Kirsten, that's any kind of burning communication you want to make to the world or anything like we. Since we've got you here.

Or a big ask.

Or a big ask.

Yeah, yeah. What's your big ask? What can our audience do for you? Or we were sitting here and we returned back to this place exactly a year from today. What might have happened because you were on the big leap.

Okay.

Let'S manifest something together.

Okay.

Okay. Can you hear the trepidation of my voice? I know exactly what I'm going to say. So I'm creating a thing right now that I don't even understand myself. How I'm exactly. I know how I'm putting it out into the world, but I am, I feel I'm going, I'm making a piece of art. And I'm gonna say that if you, if you watch my pieces of art that I'm going to start putting out, they're gonna start happening in probably like a month and then they're gonna keep going, these little pieces of art. So I would say that. And also, you guys, I need to.

Now, are these NFTs real physical?

I mean, real physical, like a performance thing. There's a thing I've been making for a long time and I've been very scared about making it in the exactly the way I want to make it because I know that it probably means that I will make mistakes and, and do it a little strangely. And the metrics for success, I've always reminded myself, like with Kirsten's agenda. My metric for success is not how many people see it. My metric for success is.

Did I, did I make a person.

Feel a little more expanded? A few people, you know what I mean? If I make them feel, then they can go make a few more people. Not like, I don't need you to watch the whole show. Don't watch a show if you don't want to watch it. But like, if it's makes you feel a little more expanded and you can go out in the world and be more possible. You know what I mean? So like, I just, I. And I think I need to learn how to do big asks. I find myself in these spaces being like, I can't ask anybody out there in the world. I've got to ask myself, there's a lot of self asking that I do and answer. There's a lot happening inside of my body right now that maybe this is that thing. We're back to gay being like, receive, go like this. But I would say, yeah, I would say, I would say watch my stuff that I make. But then I'm like, if you want, watch that.

Yes. Watch, watch Kirsten's art as it appears over the next year or so. And we'll be back here next year and congratulating you on the massive success of that and how it changed a lot of people's lives.

We'll be there before for a drink. A drink, a taste. So I'll make sure I actually will create a little landing page for people watching and listening to this right now.

And if you're interested in joining us for a taste and Kirsten, you and I can have a little side conversation.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm quite good at it.

Oh, sweet.

And then it'll be a meet and greet, a taste. And I know there's a menu there. So here's what you'll want to do. You're going to just text. I'm making this up. I'm literally making it up. But I'm going to have it ready when we get get done. It'll be just text. KK 28559-55-3958. We'll put that across the screen. We'll put it in the show notes. And if you're interested in joining Kirsten for her tasting. And what we'll do, Kirsten, is we're going to arrange it right around the time your art is ready. So maybe we're going to have some abundance minded people who love to participate in some.

Maybe I can actually do some of the art. I can do some of the art there.

Oh, yeah, that would be it. Yeah. All right.

I like this. Yes. And business.

Yeah. Well, that's one thing that Kirsten has got going for is an unlimited abundance of creative ideas and passion. They just kind of flow offer. Well, thank you so much for coming to sit with us for a while, Kirsten. I know lots of people on our podcast listening to it are going to adore you just as much as I do by the time they finish. And then go watch some of your other things and dial up Kirsten's agenda. One other quick item. If things go well, when are you going to resume performances at Theater of.

What a great question. We, I guess we can right now. The numbers are just going down. We're in the process of we're commissioning a wonderful playwright named Phineas Kimora to write a play in verse. But he's, it's like a wacky Shakespearean like Shakespeare gone wrong called Nimrod that was the king of Babel about the, the sort of how we're in this post, truth, you know, People don't understand each other. Silliness. We're in the, we're in the process of workshopping that and I think we're going to try to get something happening in the summer.

All right, good. Well, we'll be there for sure. Katie and I have wanted to come down for quite a while, so let us know when that's happening. I have a one act play that I might even send your way. It's called the Mayo Clinic. It's a comedy. One act play has to do with the therapist treating a patient with a fear of mayonnaise and so that's why it's called the Mayo Clinic.

Do send that to me. Yes.

All right, my dear. Well, thanks for being a great spiritual goddess daughter to me and enlightening our show here. Mike, you want to kind of close things up.

I will. So here's what you want to do to learn more. Of course you can go to Kirsten's website just to get things rolling and that's KirstenVangsnes.com link is in the website. And what I'll do is when you text the letters KK to 855-955-3958, you'll get information and we'll keep you up to date on when the Blinking Owl distillery tour and art show will be taking place. Kirsten and Gay and I will arrange something there when we scheme together. And in the meantime, you can also go to blinkingowldistillery.com to learn more about this amazing place. I showed you some. If you're watching this, you saw the screen blink by, but it's a joke.

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. That's kind of what it looks like.

It's so beautiful. I love the pictures and Santa Ana is one of I, I love going through there. And I'm a big fan of the Santa Ana winds in the wintertime in San Diego, by the way. So anything more than that, you can always learn more about gay and my experience, Big leap experience by going to bigleappodcast.com that's it, over and out. Let's say goodbye, everyone.

Bye.

Goodbye.

Bye.