Reinvent Yourself or Rust Out: Break the Monotony and Reignite Your Passion | Big Leap EP#79

It's a mistake to think that life is one damn thing after another. It's actually the same damn thing over and over. Yeah. And if you get to that point, you're rusting out.

I jump in my car, I'd pull out a coin, I'd go, okay, heads is north, tails is south. And then I'd flip it again east or west. And that's what I do. That's how I drive. Taking that big leap of doing something completely different that really felt uncomfortable. Positively sucked. But the unknown was better than the known, which was making me sad. I couldn't even articulate it.

Hi, this is Gay Hendricks. Welcome to this episode of the Big Leap podcast. Mike and I are talking about something that I invented a word for it. The word is rust out. It's different than burnout, and I think you're going to appreciate learning about it and how you can avoid rust out.

Oh. One of the fun things that we talk about is how hard it is for some artist to get on stage and sing the same song for 30, 40, even 50 years. And gay has some real life stories about some big artists he knows personally who talk about how and why they do it and how they create this mental connection to really get a lot of joy out of something that could be absolutely repetitive and annoying for almost anyone else. So this is a super fun episode. I know you're gonna love it. And you're gonna get a sneak peek in some new work that Gaye's been up to in his brand new book that's gonna be released at the end of this year.

All right.

You said something in the last episode, gay, that really grabbed me, and it's rusting out or rust out. Describe what that is and why you invented that notion or that term.

Yes. Well, pretty much everybody knows what burnout is, but rust out is different. Rust out comes from slowly, over a long period of time, resisting the call of your genius. So going through the same thing over and over again over time, it doesn't necessarily always lead to burnout, where you have to stop doing the thing altogether, but it slowly leeches the enjoyment out of the activity or out of life. And I was just working with a person who.

Was a well known actor on a television show, but had to keep doing the same role over and over again for quite a long period of time. And in a way.

Hollywood has a great way of easing the pain of that. And in this actor's case, the pain was eased by about $225,000 an episode. And so that can take away a certain amount of pain of this. But after about seven or eight years, it wasn't working, you know, and the person didn't feel like there was any room anymore. And so they would wake up in the morning to go to the set and instead of saying, all right, let's see what I can invent with my character today, it was more like, oh my God, I gotta spend another day being Sam Smith or whatever the, the character's name was. And so now not everybody's.

In the entertainment world. But rust out can happen in just about any situation where you think you have to keep going through the motions, you have to keep living with a certain set of values and parameters and that kind of thing. And eventually the call of genius pushes up against that. And eventually you've got to do something about that. And so in this particular person's case, the, the call to genius led the actor out of wanting to do the role anymore. And so I understand.

At this point.

Kevin Costner is engaged with the folks from Yellowstone and is reluctant to go for another season. And they're waving $1.2 million an episode in front of him. And he's still, I think, saying no to that. So that's a big problem. Now, I don't know if he's. He's rusting out, but there's something, that something is wrong there. If a person won't get out of bed for $1.2 million an episode. Right.

Oh, man. So I'm going to ask you one follow on question before I relate this to something. So.

When I listen to that, when you hit that point of rusting out.

It'S been my experience and observation, both in other people and myself, that.

That is the biggest soul killer. You have a choice, which is to listen to your soul and get out at all costs, no matter what. Even if the next phase is missing out or losing something big or jumping into something completely unexpected and terrifying and not normal that pushes all of your.

Discomfort buttons. Or.

Yeah, it's kind of an either or. It's either jump into the big unknown or die a painful soul death. Not just a physical death, but, you know, the anxiety, the anger, the resentment that kicks in when you don't listen to that scream and that scream of the soul changes, you know, like what it is when you're 14 or 15 is very different than in your 20s and your 30s and your 40s, 50s, 60s, and I imagine, 70s and beyond. I've been spending like Vivian's mom, who's 90 years old and Staying with us right now, who's totally cogent, has a completely different version of that happening right now that's been interesting to talk to her about. So what do you say about the call for reinventing yourself when you hit that rest out moment? And clearly at $1.2 million, you've got a price on your soul. You got a price on respecting whatever that thing is inside you. Can you talk a little bit about that?

I sure can, because I've actually confronted that in myself when I was around 50. So about 25 years ago, I got into a period of rust out myself, and I didn't know what to call it, but I just felt sluggish. I felt like my ideas weren't coming as fast as they're used to. And when I sat down and I had a heart to heart talk with Katie about it and myself, I realized I had been kind of going through the motions for a while.

I had this certain set of speeches that I did that went along with a certain set of books, and, you know, I charged a certain amount for them. And so I went out and I did them. And, you know, I had it pretty well packed, packaged, coming off Oprah and all of that. When I was around 45, for the next five years or so, we developed a lot of programs and, you know, over the next 10 years put on 2 million frequent flyer miles, going around the world doing relationship seminars. And I got to a point where.

It'S kind of like they say, you know, I could do it in my sleep.

Yeah.

You know, and that's an exaggeration, but it's sort of true in a way that I had these certain ways I did things, and I knew that the audience was going to stand up at the end and applaud, you know, and they were going to laugh at certain points. But what was missing for me, I realized, was the capacity of surprise and something different happening and things going a certain different direction. And I didn't realize how much my soul, my nervous system needed that kind of constant reinvention. But, boy, did I wake up fast, you know, like.

I started having physical problems I shouldn't have had at 50 years old. You know, I developed a heart palpitation and some stuff like that. And so. But it was all due to this problem. I'm talking about rusting out, because human beings are really not designed to go through the same things over and over and over again all the time. That's not where human evolution start, you know.

Totally. Yep.

You were constantly being confronted by new situations and many of those situations were dangerous, which is why we have 200,000 nerve endings on the bottom of our feet to help us run like saber tooth tigers and that kind of thing. And so in today's world, a lot of times, though, is that you're kind of. If you're in your zone of excellence, you sort of end up doing the same things over and over and over again. Yeah. And Edna St. Vincent Millay, the great poet, said.

It'S a mistake to think that life is one damn thing after another. It's actually the same damn thing over and over. Yeah. And if you get to that point, you're rusting out and you need to bust out. So the solution to rust out is bust out. And you've got to bust out of your current routine. You know, what we say around here in our relationship seminars is if you're not involved in constant reinvention of your relationship, what happens is it is a form of rust in a way that you allow to happen. That slows down the flow of intimacy. And so, you know, I always tell people, too, that if you're not involved in reinvention, the universe is going to blow up your life now and then, whether you like it or not. But you got to get in the habit of constantly blowing up your life, you know, and going to the next level all the time. That keeps you from having the universe step in and say, oh, you've been complaining about. Well, a recent example.

A husband of a friend of mine who was a very accomplished surgeon had gotten to the point where he just didn't like it anymore. Yeah. And. But he wasn't willing to confront that because of $500,000 a year. He wasn't used to. I mean, he didn't know where he was going to make that other $500,000 a year from if he quit being a surgeon. And.

What happened? He went out for a bike ride. He's whizzing along about 30 miles an hour on his $10,000 E bike and crash. And crushed his operating hand.

Oh, yeah.

And so the universe took over, heard the message, and now for five years, he's been incapacitated, hasn't been able to do, you know, so we don't want to let our unconscious take over and do the thinking that our conscious is really well suited to do because the unconscious mind is very powerful but not very smart. It will hear, oh, he doesn't like being a surgeon anymore. I know how to fix that. Boom.

Wow. Whereas a conscious person would say, huh, you know what? I'M going to take a six months in sabbatical and sail my family to Tahiti on a boat. And, you know, just like another friend, a writer friend of mine, Bruce Chatwin.

He'S written many, many great books on travel. He got into travel writing because he was an art appraiser at Sotheby's auction house. And he spent all day looking at art, and it took all the fun. He was consumed by art, but having to do this job day after day, he got sick of it and he went blind and he went to the doctor. And fortunately he got a great medical doctor that understood the body mind connection, because the doctor said, you know, what you need to do is take some time and only look at big vistas like travel trips and things like that take your attention away from looking at fine things through a microscope all the time. Within a few months of travel, his eyes were just fine. And so, you know, it's sometimes nature's way of telling us that you've been going through the motions too long. So how does, how does rust out feel? Well, probably a little gritty in your joints. One good sign is what you're thinking about when you wake up in the morning. Like a classic case of rust out. I was working with a person who's a executive in a pharmaceutical industry and gradually has become disenchanted with some of the aspects of pharmaceuticals.

And you can probably think of about 15 of them right away. But one is.

Suddenly some of his pharmaceuticals he's out there selling cost $80,000 a year for some of the, the, the.

Some of the real rare ones or a thousand dollars a month for some of the ones. And so he's feeling progressively guilty because basically he used to be a hippie back in the 60s.

Yeah, yeah.

And now he's running a pharmaceutical company, but it still pains him. And so what he did was instead of, fortunately, he got to me in time. And so we devised a program for him to kind of phase out of doing a lot of the things he hated to do. And then also he took his family on a. On a trip to Spain and they imbibed a new culture for a couple of months. And he just fell in love with the culture. And now he has a reference point for where he wants to be in this. And he went back to his executive job. But now he's got this feeling inside of what it felt like to get out from under things. So you don't have to, you know, take a boat to Tahiti or you don't have to take Six months off or anything like that. But just look for ways you can reinvent yourself on a daily basis. Look for something new you can do today that you didn't do yesterday. I even actually, when people are starting this process, I actually ask them to break up normal habits. Like, for example, the first week, I ask them to brush their teeth with their alternate hand. Yeah. And so, surprisingly enough, it feels so weird that it shakes up your brain. And as you probably know, the left side of your body runs, or brain runs the right side of your body and vice versa. So if a person has been toothbrushing with their right hand all their life and suddenly they start doing it with their left hand, that's a great shakeup. And it's very easy to do another one that I have people do, like in the second or third week when I'm working with them. I have them start taking a different route to work every day, even if it's not as convenient. And so, you know, people have come back and said, I found five different ways to go to work, and all of them got me there within five minutes of each other, you know, and so do something every day that's going to shake yourself up in a benign way before life has to step in and give you a real whack on the head.

All right, lots to unpack here. I have an observation story, and then I'm going to lead to a question. All right, so I'm really going to look for your insight.

On what the brain is working for or looking for and what happens during these reinventions. So here's the setup. When I was listening to you.

I've told you this before, we even talked about it, how I've been completely.

Absorbed in reading autobiographies about music producers. And there's one guy in particular who I really enjoyed, his autobiography, a guy named Glyn Johns, who produced for the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the who, the Eagles, Bob Dylan, Linda Ronstadt, Eric Clapton and the Clash, Steve Miller Band. I mean, just an insane number even, you know, later on. And he's still alive, he's still producing to this day. His son has taken over more. But anyway.

I thought for a while I used to look at artists and musicians and go, oh, man, what a life. Until I realized they're singing the same damn song. Just imagine being Frank Sinatra and the expectation of singing Fly Me to the Moon. You'd be like, I'm going to shoot myself. And you can totally see how. And. And a lot of artists, and U2 has been. They've been performing 40 years, same guys.

Yeah.

They've been married to each other and they've really had to grow up together. I mean, they've been around each other making music since they were middle teenagers, you know, 14, 15 years old. And I realized, holy cow, if I had to sing the same Damn song for 40 years, I'd seriously get suicidal. So no wonder you become an addiction or you find a way to focus on that love and getting high from the audience energy. And I get that too. But the cost to your body, the cost to your family is so high. So anyway, one of the things I really love doing is like figuring out like what's the fuel, what's the energy that keeps the people in the business, entertainers especially. So here's the quick story. So that's just the first establishing thing.

Which I've told you this story before, where five years ago is like probably one of my major reinvention phases where I got anxious, didn't know why I was depressed, didn't know why, and on the surface everything should be fine. But I felt like I was for sure going to die. And it had just been five years since cancer treatments, which was another major forced reinvention because I had to re examine everything. And now looking back at it, I dove into what seemed like the big unknown, doing stuff I didn't even remember how to do. But it turned into the most creative, productive time of my life. So, you know, just recently when I'm looking back, I've been writing a book a quarter right now. And these are all pre AI, so all books, me writing them real, really writing them. Over the past five years, my team and I have created and launched almost 100 businesses and brands. It's right in that area. I just finished creating this new product I was telling you about in a previous episode, the Blueprint. And you know, my observation is taking that big leap of doing something completely different that really felt uncomfortable and positively sucked. But the unknown was better than the known, which was making me sad. I couldn't even articulate it.

So that comes back to gay. What is happening during that rusting out phase and then that transition into the reinvented you when it's done in a way that's soul compatible. And what's the brain looking for? What's that equilibrium? Why does it seem to work out when you jump into this with courage? And why do we like it so much? The human brain loves the hero's journey. So I asked you four big questions there. But I'm curious what Your synthesis of all this is as a therapist and as an observer of the human condition for so many years.

Well, first of all, great question. I'm going to make a little adjustment here because I'm seeing light falling across my face.

That's all right. I'll dance while you're away.

So the. So the dance is. And as usual, you know, what I like is you always can call up not just a story, but a precedent. And not only a personal story, but also, you know, the beauty of being in the world of therapy. You know, you get paid to figure this stuff out. You've got something at stake and the need to deliver. Right? So that even that is an example of the brain is looking for resolution. It just wants to make things better. And even if it's starting from square zero.

Well, I've actually had conversations with a couple of top flight musicians about this very problem of how do you reinvent something. Like.

Bonnie Raitt is a good friend of ours, and her mom was also just a wonderful human being.

And her friend was Tony Bennett. And so, Tony, how do you get up there? Are you just dreading the moment where you got to sing I Left My Heart in San Francisco?

Holy cow.

No. You know, for him. And I also asked Kenny Loggins that because I had been friends with him for 30 years, and so I've been around him a lot at concerts, you know, or one year I went out on tour with him to kind of keep him company.

And so I've had the opportunity to watch him night after night sing the same songs over and over again. And so I asked him one time, just point blank, how do you do that? And he said, oh, man, that's the art of it, is to sing something that you wrote when you were 17 years old and at 67 years old, put the same passion into it. But to me, that really made an impression because just the sound of his voice as he was talking about it said that it was something he worked on constantly to do that. Another thing that just popped into my mind.

Robert Plant, the great singer Led Zeppelin.

Once somebody asked him, you know, you guys could make hundreds of millions of dollars reconvening Led Zeppelin and going out on tour for a couple of years, and why don't you do that? And he said, I don't want to sing stairway to heaven 55 nights in a row.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, so he's willing to blow off $100 million maybe just to keep from having to do that.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

So.

It'S something that people have to deal with all the time. And certainly not just entertainers, but down to get to the specific. What is the brain looking for? The brain is looking for surprise. The brain is looking for innovation. Part of our brain. Part of our brain is interested in keeping us within the confines of our limits because we can be relied on there. And people around us want to keep us within our limits because we can be relied on. And so there's a tremendous push in life to keep ourselves in the excellence zone and not try to go beyond that. And so you've got the push of programming from one side saying, do it the same way. Get up and do it all over again today. And you've got this other little flickering candle which thrives on creative expression and new ways of doing things, new ways of getting to the office instead of sleepwalking to the office. How do you get there a different way today? So those kinds of things are where you can really make some mileage on your quest for genius. Because if you can spot the little places where you're stuck and stultified and not flowing easily, they can be a real key to your genius, because it doesn't take much lubrication to open up those areas and begin to unrust and, like I say, bust out instead of rust out. To get out of those old habits, all you have to do is one time need to invent something brand new. If you've been going to the office one way for 17 years, if you do something brand new, everything changes. I don't know if I mentioned this in one of our episodes, but I was on a bike trip many years ago to China and Tibetan, and a guy was my roommate that's about maybe in his 60s. I was in my 40s at the time, and he'd had the same thing for breakfast every day for 34 years. That made such an impression on me because the first morning at breakfast, we're eating in China or someplace where they don't serve the usual kinds of breakfasts. And he mentioned that he was really kind of upset because he wasn't getting to eat his usual breakfast. I said, well, what is that? And he said, well, I always have porridge for breakfast, oatmeal. And he was Canadian. He called it porridge. And I said, really? And he said, yep, I've had the same breakfast every morning for the last bunch of years. But he said, for the last few years, I use a microwave instead. And it doesn't take as long. You know, that was his big innovation. You don't have to boil it in a pot. You can nuke it instead. Well, what would it. You could not pay me enough to eat the same thing for breakfast.

I don't even eat the same thing for breakfast two days in a row because I have to kind of deprive myself in different ways. But, you know, that's an extreme example. But look for ways in your life where you're glued down to some particular way of doing things and invent a new way to do it. Shake yourself up, even if it's using your toothbrush with the other hand.

Oh, so much to unpack there. I don't know if I have told you this before, but our property in Pescadero that we own, our next door neighbor is Bonnie Raitt's brother. So he's. I couldn't. He's 250ft away from us now. We haven't bumped into her down there, but I am going to have a sub conversation with you about that because I have a couple ideas, but is that Steve?

I mean, I'm not Stephen. Is that David?

I can't remember, but I'll find out. You have to just ask for.

David's also an excellent musician. I've actually.

It must be him.

Band one.

It's him then, because people talk about him and you can see he's got a big RV parked in front and it's a very.

The house is big and it's red and that's where everything is whitewash and cement, you know, so it's red and yellow. So he's got a very distinct look and feel. But he's apparently just a super nice guy. He's well liked around there, and I've heard that he goes out. There's a lot of musicians in our neighborhood and they regularly perform at the little, you know, outdoor bars and stuff like that. They're basically like tiki bars in the desert, but tons of fun. It's so, so much fun.

So he's a terrific blues musician. That's the kind of. He used to have his own band. And they were playing at the 40th birthday party of a friend of mine some years ago, and I sat in and did a. What was the song? I did Raining in My Heart by Slim Harpo and played the blues harp on it and everything. He was kind enough to let me sit in.

Oh, what a blast.

That's really great. Please give him my high regards if you see him down there.

I will, I will. So this is.

When am I going. When am I going to get invited to Pescadero, by the way.

Oh, well. So there's a couple things happening. We still haven't broken ground. We're waiting for our environmental study to be done, and then we're gonna get down there. So the answer is we can go down there anytime, you know, because we can stay at Chip Conley's, which is right next door, and we have an open invite, and we just have to put it on the calendar. And you and Katie could go down for a little sabbatical session with us. They call it the Sab Sesh, and I know he'd love to have you. And, you know, either you could just relax and hang out or probably sit in on a session. And the answer is any time. And we'll be going down there very shortly. I'll get you some dates. So I'd love to do a couple's date with you and Katie. That would be a blast. I know Vivian would, too. So that's.

That'd be a lot of fun. I really enjoy that. I've never been to that particular part of Baja.

It is breathtaking. And.

You know, you got turtles and whales and dolphins, and it's easy to get to. Incredible farm to table food. It. And that is, for us, a little bit of. If I bring it back to our theme here. This is Vivian's response to a little rusting out, you know, because she.

She had spent 17 years with their foundation doing all this work in Uganda and then India and working with native tribes. And she just reached a point. She said, you know what? I've done enough. I've done my part. I don't feel like there's anything unfinished. And she met with Ariel.

And, you know, just told her, I am. I'm cooked. I'm done. I don't want to raise any more money for nonprofits any longer. And Ariel said, you got to go to Chip Conley's. You want to go to Modern Elder Academy and work on your. Because Vivian said, I'm going to write my next book. And she said, go down there and start your book. And it was two hours after she landed at Chips. She called up and said, I want to buy property down here. I want to move here. This is our. This is our next chapter. This is our next act. And that's what it turned into. So I think. I think, first of all, you'll find it to just be a soul resonant place. And it's kind of like what I would say Ojai is for you, where you just knew it was home. And it just like your soul said yes.

In much the same way that.

You know, anywhere you found. And it just feels like, you know, a lot of people come to Encinitas, for example, and they get close to the.

What's it swami's up there. What's it called? The Self Realization Fellowship.

Self Realization Fellowship. Yogananda.

Yep. And like, we were just up there yesterday. We had breakfast right next door. And that place has got a vibe, man. It's got that energy vortex. So if you're enter into energy vortices, that part of Pescadero specifically right there, there's a whole bunch of swirly energy, and there's quite a few shaman who park right there and they're like, yep, this is a special place. So you got me intrigued.

I've spent many, many happy trips traversing Mexico back in the old days when I was a hippie backpacker and with my VW bus and all that. But now I'm happy to do it in style.

Yeah. Well, they just broke ground on a private airstrip right next door, and there's still some hippie outposts where some of the people came 40 years ago and just put up Palapas. And there's still a whole section down by a place they call Beach Bar, a surf place. So it's very, very much the place where the folks, before they rust out, make their. Make their. Their journey. So I. I've. I wanted to ask you if you wanted to spend some time down there. So I'll. I'll make a point of making that happen. Let's get some dates on the calendar. So I'm exc.

Excited. Yeah. And let's get. Let's get Chip involved because they carry my book the Big Leap down there. Oh, yeah. And he's asked me a few times to come down and give a talk or two. Interestingly enough, I've never actually met Chip Conley in person. Oh, you haven't met. Many times on Zoom. Because we're speaking at the same thing. Yes. You know, and so. But I'm looking forward to meeting him in person. We're big fans of each other.

Yes, I know, I know. He asks me about me. About you every time we talk now, so. And he's. Every time we're down there, we always get together. If not, you know, sometimes it's only a half an hour at a time, sometimes it's a whole day. So I know he'll love that. And he'd greet you and want you and Katie to speak and present if you can so. Well, good. I think I got a lot out of this episode today. First of all, I love the stories. I always love the tie ins to the celebrity connections and.

How you use these, you know, as vehicles for your own transformation and also with people you work with. But any big takeaways that you have or thoughts on rusting out before we finish this episode?

Yes, I go to great lengths now to avoid anything that looks like rushed out, because I've been there and I didn't like it. And the antidote to it is constant self renewal and self reinvention. And to me, that's sacred ground. So anything you can do in your life that gets you more involved with something that can, that has the capacity to surprise you, something that, you know, can awaken new things in you, that's the solution to rushed out.

Yeah. One thing I really connected with is you talked about taking a different way to work or, or just changing directions. And I realized that my whole life. So I've always been a wanderer. And I used to just get on my bike and just ride around, even when I was very young. You know, this is back when, you know, kids just went outside and you'd come back when the, when the whistle went off at the end of the day. And I'd ride around for, you know, 10, 15 miles, riding to lakes and going to rivers and swamps and streams in Minnesota and. And for many years I do the same thing in my car. I just. And this drives Vivian nuts because she's like, where are we gonna go and what are we gonna do? And I'd say, let's jump in the car, I'll start driving and I'll know based on where we start going. And this is literally the way I used to do my own vacations when it was just me. I jump in my car, I'd pull out a coin, I'd go, okay, heads is north, tails is south. And then I'd flip it again east or west. And that's what I do, that's what I drive. And sometimes I'd go to Chicago from Minnesota, sometimes I'd go to the Dakotas, sometimes I'd go through all the way through Iowa and go down to Kansas City or something like that. But it was just purely, like, random. And I know that's where I got some of my best thinking done, because, you know, when the brain has a lot of stimulation from something outside the window, you can really go deep into this meditative state and trance. And that's what I was imagining. When you're talking about that like. Man, I haven't thought about that in a long time. What a useful tool.

All right, gang, hear the message. Get busy reinventing yourself every day. Don't let your unconscious do it for you.

Shake off that rust. Make sure it isn't in your underwear because that stuff's uncomfortable. Rusty underwear.

No good.

No good. So there we go. Well, this has been another episode of the Big Leap. Make sure you like comment, comment, share please. That makes a big difference. It helps the algorithm help other people like you find us so we can improve some lives, create some more impact and encourage more creativity. Gay, always a pleasure, my friend.

Great being with you again, Mike. And let's encourage everybody to live right on that leading edge of their lives and avoid rust out at all costs.

Right on. We'll see you soon, Sam.