The Big Leap EP#50 - Living in "Easy World!"

In this episode of the Big Leap podcast, we're really having an exciting conversation with a dynamic young entrepreneur named Troy Lavinia, who's not only developed a couple of fascinating businesses, but also has a way of going about business that I think you'll be really want to tune into. And you'll also get introduced to the concept of midnight pizza.

That and one of the things that Troy is talking about that I'm really resonating with is living in Easy World and how you can operationalize spiritual principles to create great organizations. Troy.

Well, I wanted to come on today just to talk a little bit more about what we've been doing and the work that I've been doing with Gay, and hopefully this will be of interest. It seems like there are people have never been more inundated with information and more stressed in life and at the same time had more of a desire to do something creative or entrepreneurial as well, have been so open minded to spirituality. And so if I think about those three trends in our world right now, stress wanting to be entrepreneurial or creative and being open to spirituality, I feel like there's a lot of work that we can do in order to help people see the intersection between entrepreneurship and spirituality and want to start to get people's input on that and take that further.

Right. Well, thank you, Troy, and Gay and I are going to be right back with you with this episode of the Big Leap. So hang tight and get ready to dive into something that I think is going to blow your mind.

Hi, I'm Gay Hendricks. Welcome to this episode of the Big Leap podcast. I'm very excited about this because one of my favorite things that we do on this podcast is bring people in who are in the process of taking big leaps in their business world and in other areas of their life, and we talk to them about what have been your big leaps and what made those things happen and what do you think the principles those are based on. So we kind of tease apart people's big leaps and find out how they did it. And obviously we're interested in transmitting the knowledge to you of how to do it better yourself. So, Mike, great to be with you again.

Yes. Yeah, I've been looking forward to this episode. We don't do a lot of interviews, so when we do interviews, it's with someone special. And you've got Troy, who you've been working with. So I can't wait to hear how you go about the interview and what kind of questions you ask him about his big leaps.

Good. Well, I'm very excited about this because I've known Troy for a year or so, and I've been really impressed with the way he goes about his business. And so I want to introduce him a little bit, but I want to have him tell you about what he does, because what he does is, I would call it a niche market Wall street business. Would that be fair, Troy? Yeah.

Yeah. And things like Bloomberg and things like that are information delivery systems. And Troy has something like that. But I want him to tell you about the details of it. And so, Troy, before we get into your big leaps, just give us a quick sketch of what your business is and does and how long you've been doing it.

Sure. Yeah. So we, we're called Mosaic Research Management. We were founded 11 years ago in 2010, and we're what's called an expert network. And so the simplest way to put that is that we're essentially a matchmaker between investors at institutional investment firms, so hedge funds, mutual funds, private equity firms, and industry experts who those hedge fund analysts want to hire as consultants. So, for example, if we have a client who is a hedge fund analyst, they're thinking about investing in Nike, the footwear company. They might end up taking $100 million position in Nike. And so they really want to do their homework. They'll read everything there is to read, but they want to also talk to on the ground sources. So we might go find the former CFO of Nike who understands that business and its drivers, or we might find competitors of Nike who can talk about on the ground competition and, you know, winning, losing deals, et cetera. And then we put those people as advisors in touch with our clients for one on one telephone consultations. And then by speaking with those industry experts, our clients can get more knowledgeable about the business and fortify their investment thesis and have more conviction in their investments. And it's called an expert network business. So that's the primary business we've been running for the past 11 years. And then about a year and a half ago, we started a subsidiary or an ancillary business, which is recordings and transcripts of those calls. So with the permission of expert of experts and analysts, we're now recording and transcribing those and putting them in a library so that you can go in and read them. So if you're an analyst who wants to do that research on Nike before you do your own interview with the former cfo, you can go in and read some other interviews that other analysts had done about Nike to get smart on that company really quickly, and then we can sell subscription access to that library. So really not dissimilar from a podcast network where we're having interviews, we're recording them, we're transcribing them, and then we're putting them into a. Into a shareable library. But we're not doing advertising, we're monetizing it through subscription.

And where did you come up with the idea to launch a business like that in the first place?

This was a business that I was in previously. A competitor of ours I had worked at for two years, I think, and then I went to a hedge fund and worked internally there, building out this type of capability. And I just love doing it.

But.

But I knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur and so found a way to make that leap from the company to building my own company.

Okay, great, I got it. So if you go back to the very beginning, one of the things we're always interested in here is what were the big leaps that got you to the place where you could take that kind of big leap? And then some of the big leaps you're taking in the business now, like, what do you think your first big leap was? Going as far back as you care to go?

You know, I think the first one that I can remember as an adult is a time with my wife when we first met, and we were first dating for maybe about a month and, or two months maybe, and we were, you know, I had moved in with her, you know, out of necessity more than anything else, and that's a different story. So that was a big leap. But I think one thing that. That always comes to mind for us and something that we've kind of made a theme within our marriage because of this, the story is.

She tells it. I'm a little. I'm a little foggier on this, but I think I came home to our apartment at 1 o' clock in the morning. We were living in New York City, and I brought a pizza with me. And she said, like, why are you. What are you doing? Like, where have you been? Why do you have a pizza? And I said, you know, we can eat pizza at midnight. Like, this is our life now, and if we want to eat pizza at midnight, let's do it like there's nothing stopping us. And so that whole idea of eating pizza at midnight, we call it, is something that we've tried to keep alive throughout our marriage. And that the idea is that you create your own life, and especially if you pick the right partner. And both of you are open minded about what you want to do in life and how big you want to get and how you want to expand, that you can really do anything. There's nothing to tell you that you can't eat pizza at midnight or start your own business or, you know, publish a book or do whatever it is that you're, that you're wanting to do. And so I think that mindset is something that we've really tried to live by and helps us continue to grow. And I think finding a partner that shares that mentality is so, so crucial because ultimately, when you're taking big leaps, if your spouse or your partner is okay with that leap, then even if it fails, you're okay. Right, because.

They gave you permission. How much trouble could you get in, really? And so I think that's the first one I can think of and probably the most meaningful in getting me and my wife on a trajectory of continuous big leaps.

Yeah, let's think about that a second. That's kind of a genius idea to build your life around the idea of.

Not sticking to the usual rules of when people need to eat lunch or eat pizza or whatever. So being able to be that flexible and getting a partner that goes along with that, that agrees with that value.

So, okay, one big takeaway from today then is eat pizza at midnight.

And.

Yeah.

Our boat out there is called Midnight Pizza.

Oh, yeah.

The Midnight Pizza LLC is how we buy houses and anything else we want to do together that's important. And we just always try to keep that top of mind.

All right, I've got a question for you, Troy. And it was.

So how long have you been working with Gay? And what prompted you to reach out to him in the first place? And what was the initial attraction or pain you were experiencing?

Great question. So I remember where I was sitting, actually, I was.

At a coffee shop in Brooklyn probably two years ago, two and a half years ago. I had just started this new business of ours, this subsidiary I'm talking about. It's called Stream. So our primary business is Mosaic. Stream is the content library. And I was talking with a guy named Dane Maxwell, who I had done a course with previously and become pretty close with. And he is a kind of an entrepreneur, entrepreneur coach. And I asked him if I've got this new product.

It's pretty good, people like it, but I need to figure out a go to market system for this. How do we market it, how do we put it out there, how do we get more users on this platform? And I asked him if he'd be interested in coming to join me and running that for a cut of that business. And he said that that was a real like, upper limit thing for him because it was a great offer and was something that was making, you know. Our second conversation about this, he kind of confided to me that this was an upper limit thing for him. Like, this is amazing. He's living a really comfortable life right now. Everything is going really well. But this would be kind of something that would be a great opportunity for him. I said, well, what does that mean? It's an upper limit, an upper limit thing. And he explained to me the whole concept of upper limiting from the big leap. And I thought that was genius. And.

I immediately got the audiobook, listened to it quickly, and it's been something that I've been re listening to for the past two, two and a half years, every few months. And I've recommended it to many people. And then.

Maybe a year, what, 18 months ago, maybe.

A guy in our business, I hire a lot of creatives, so we have a lot of stand up comedians, a lot of actors, actresses, artists, and we employ them in like really steady, great day jobs. And then we also pay for them to have an accountability coach who will, who will work with them and help them with their creative pursuits.

So.

So that they can hopefully become successful in their creative pursuits as quickly as possible. It's a guy named Azul. And Azul told me that he did an interview with Gay Hendricks. And I was like, oh, like Gay, Gay's my guy. Like, I don't know him, but like, he's read this book to me a few times. Like, I love this guy. And so I emailed Gay and mentioned that and asked him if he'd be interested in working with me as a coach. And. And he got back to me and we met and have talked probably every couple weeks since then.

Great.

It's been really enjoyable to me because one of the things that I.

Like and people I work with and the people I choose to work with is they have a really high openness to learning. In fact, we use a scale here at our institute, an openness to learning scale. And it has a lot to do with how quickly you're willing to let go of any defensiveness and try on a new idea. And I started measuring that back in the 80s and 90s because I did a lot more on site work where I would go into companies and work with them, the C suite team there, rather than having them come out here. And on one of those occasions when I was working down at Dell with Michael Dell and company. I realized I wanted to quantify this thing called openness to learning, because I had just come from a different.

Corporate environment the week before where everybody was very defensive. And, you know, you'd ask a person to look at something and, you know. But then I go down to Dell, and Michael Dell is like a conscious steel trap as far as learning. You know, he'll just boom, and he's got it, and he doesn't waste any time being defensive. And so that's when I started measuring this openness to learning factor. And Troy is very high on the openness to learning scale because he'll see the value of an idea, and he doesn't waste any time.

Defending against it for any ego reasons or anything like that. So that's one of the main qualities I really look for. And Troy's got that.

Really polished.

That's awesome. Awesome. So the second part of the question then, Troy, is, what was the pain you were experiencing? What did you want to solve in working with Gay?

It's really just continuing to reset that upper limit thermostat. If you think back 18, when I met my wife, it was 18 years ago, right? And so it's really been 18 years since we said we want to eat pizza at midnight. And around that time, I started.

Like, a journey of continuous improvement. I've had ups and downs, but really I've stayed really committed to continuing to improve myself since then. And.

Having a coach who focuses on that and always trying to understand what the next limitation is and what the blockers might be for me and identifying them and surrendering them.

That'S really important to me. And I feel like a lot of times I could get in my own way if I wasn't aware of those things. So that whole concept of becoming aware of those things that are unconscious blockers and then surrendering them, that was the thing that I really wanted to learn. And it was painful for me if I would be working really hard, consciously on something, but then not achieving it or, you know, really sabotaging it in a very nuanced way. And so working through that and learning how to work through that was really, really important.

One of the things I've also been impressed with in working with Troy is, and maybe you could speak to this, you have based.

Your business life on some values that don't often get taught in business school. And so one thing I was very impressed with was how you come at your business from a set of values that are almost more spiritual. Than they are anchored in the world of entrepreneurship and business. And I wonder if you would speak to that a little bit about where you came up with that sort of an idea.

Yeah.

The idea of a really practical spirituality has been a part of my life for a long time. I think I started it was getting dragged to church by my wife or by my. By my mom at a young age, and then was.

Out of spirituality of any kind for a long time. And then probably 20 years ago, started doing yoga. That led to meditation, which led to more active exploration of different types of spirituality. And. And.

Ultimately the idea, or I think the key idea of most spirituality is the idea that you're able to create something in your mind that isn't there in reality yet, and you're able to.

Let it unfold with ease without doing all of the growing yourself. And then you're able to surrender any of the blockers that are keeping you in the way of kind of realizing that unfoldment. Right. So if you take the analogy of a farmer, the farmer comes, they plant the seed. They know what they want to grow, they plant the seed, they water it, they make sure it's getting sunlight, they tend to it, but they don't force it to grow. And you can't. You can't pull a plant out of a seed. Right. You need to. To let the universe or God or that force of growth kind of work its magic in order to let the plant unfold. And I think most of our relationships personally and in business are very similar. And so that was really the first. And I've been trying to use spiritual principles like that in order to manage my life personally. And, you know, my first foray bringing that into business was maybe five or six years ago when I realized that there was a limit to how quickly business relationships with clients could grow. And it was the same type of thing. We wanted to figure out what the sunlight and. And water and soil was to provide to our clients the seed so that it would grow to its maximum potential. And really, ever since then, I've been looking at our business through a spiritual lens and trying to apply and figure out what are those spiritual principles that are fundamental across different religions and different spiritualities. And then how can we take those and use practical tools to implement them within our business again, to let our business relationships and the business itself grow more easily.

I keep meaning to recommend a book to you, and I just. Now I'm remembering to do it. Have you ever read the book the Perennial Philosophy?

No, I haven't.

It would Be very useful, I think, because it does what you're talking about. It looks across all the world's religions and extracts. Extracts the key principles that are common to all of them. The Perennial Philosophy came out a long time ago, but I remember it was really.

Really good from that standpoint to show what the key principles are, even though the flavors of them may be different in the different cultures.

That's great.

It's been something I've always wanted to research and just haven't had the time or even knowing where to start. So if they figured that out, that would be great.

Yeah, I think somebody did. I forget. Maybe it was Aldous Huxley that wrote that book.

It is Aldous Huxley. I just looked it up and I was like, what?

Yeah.

Huh?

Yeah. Well, Aldous Huxley was amazing guy. As a matter of fact, I was friends with his widow.

And Laura Huxley and I used to go down and visit her. She lived in a cottage literally underneath the Hollywood sign for pretty much she and Aldous bought that house. But anyway, he took lsd, an LSD trip to die with. He had really bad cancer. And as he was dying, she heard on the radio that JFK had been shot in Dallas. So that was when Aldous exited. Anyway.

As you tune in, Troy, to other spiritual principles that you've been working on making practical, you've mentioned a couple. Any others come to mind that you see playing out in your business?

Yeah, I've been trying to think about this more lately and kind of back into what the principles might be for the tactics that are working really well for us. And I think it's a couple of things, like three things, primarily. One is the idea of vision. So like I said, being able to create something in your mind and fortify it with love and other positive emotions so that it becomes real in your body and in your self image. And then once that takes place, then you've really set your gps, so to speak, and your subconscious, or the universe or God or however you. You like to think about the spiritual realm will start to bring you in that direction. So I think it's something that's really important for us individually is to have a really strong vision for different areas of our life and what we want it to look like. And what I found is that it's. It's incredibly important.

For somebody who's running a business or a team of any kind, whether it's a small team within a larger company or a sports team or whatever it is, the person who's in charge of that really is responsible for creating that vision and making sure that it's something that people really understand and that the team is really excited about. And it seems like such an obvious thing, but it is really a spiritual thing because once that vision becomes real in everybody's minds and within everybody's bodies and in their self image, then really you have not only one person whose GPS is set on that destination, but you have 10, 15, 20 people whose GPS is set on that destination. And success becomes almost inevitable when that's the case, if you have everyone buying into the same vision. So that's one thing that, that I think has been good and there's, you know, a few different practices that we've implemented that relate to that, but that's would be the underlying principle of, of having a good vision.

Another one would be just the idea of staying in the flow so that, you know, you're either making decisions, you know, you're either in a, in a place of fear or you're in a place of love generally most times, and staying in a place of love or in the flow and making your decisions and taking action from those places rather than from a place of fear. That's, that's a principle that, that has been really successful for us. And then the, another one would be surrender. So just these blockers that, you know, he has written about, he called the upper limit, you know, taking. Everyone has blockers. You know, I do myself and I know that the people I work with do as well. And so being able to recognize what those conscious and subconscious blockers might be, and.

Not suppressing them or kind of feeding them with fear, but looking at them and giving them some loving attention and then surrendering them, remembering to do that consistently, letting go and surrendering those blockers is what allows you to reach that GPS destination much more easily and much more quickly. So those are really three things, three underlying spiritual principles that I think.

Have started to dictate a lot of the daily routines and things that we're implementing in our business that have been successful.

I love the idea of getting everybody empowered so that everybody has the vision not only in their mind, but you were saying in their body and in their self image. You know, that that gets invoked in that. That's a very powerful thing to have in any business. And it's a fairly rare thing, actually.

Maybe it's more so now, but when I was going around and visiting lots and lots of businesses in the 80s and 90s, I didn't see a whole lot of what you're talking about and in fact, I saw the opposite of it, where people weren't getting buy in, you know, that there was a gap between what the leadership was talking about and what everybody else could, that you could see in everybody else. And so I appreciate that you've really put a lot of attention into that.

Yeah, it felt to me when I was listening to it, I wrote down a living prayer. It's like when you create.

What it is you wish to manifest and you get everyone else enrolled in it, you know, you've got that common vision. And I can't help but ask, can you think of an example where you've done that, Troy, You've created this living prayer, this common shared vision, communicated it and saw it manifest in less time than normally it would have. In your experience, can you think of something that. That shows up when you hear that?

Yeah.

There'S a big one. And we'll just call it a partnership for right now. But one of the things we've been trying to do since we started this new company of ours is.

Create a really big strategic partnership that would take what we're doing and the content that we're creating and really put it out there in a massive way. And now this, this deal is just in process, so I can't really talk about a ton of the details, but it's a, it's a deal. The partner. And the terms of which would be.

Kind of silly if you told most people when we were starting this, this new business 18 months ago that we were going to have this deal with this company, you know, that's going to drive this much revenue. If you told them we were going to accomplish that in 12 months, 18 months, they'd say, like, that's bonkers. Don't you know that doesn't happen. And.

We just. I talked about it regularly. I made it, you know, my top priority, wrote it down on my goal card. Every day thinking about it, really making it real in my mind, and, and having the scene, the mental movie of, of that taking place and not being afraid to talk about it with people, I think is one of the big things that that helps that.

Right.

So you get everybody enrolled in the vision, but the first step in getting people enrolled in the vision is not being afraid to talk about your vision. Right. And as a leader, a CEO of a small business or a manager of people, or a coach of people, you probably have these aspirations or these things that you would like to accomplish, but feels kind of silly talking about those big things with people because, you know, there's a lot. You know, there's a lot of downside then if you don't accomplish it, let's say, or you might not feel comfortable that everyone would know about your plans to, you know, grow and sell your business or whatever it might be. Right. So.

From day one, started talking with people about a deal like this that we might be able to put together. And I think as you talk about it more and more and you get people more and more enrolled in it and help people visualize it and see that reality, it really does become, you know, from day one, it gives you a pit in your stomach and it feels weird to, you know, day 300, you know, it's kind of taken for granted that this is what we're going to accomplish and everyone really believes in it and we're just watching it unfold. And then you can start to see all of the different signposts that you're heading in the right direction along the way. So that's one of the things that I found really, really great about this most recent business, is having the courage to say that this is the outcome or one of the near term outcomes we're looking to accomplish. Being willing to share that with my team and now seeing that come to fruition much more quickly than anybody could have expected is incredibly meaningful because not only are we accomplishing that thing, that specific thing, which is great, but more importantly, we've just figured out this spiritual playbook that's working for us to create things out of nothing, and we can apply that in other ways as well. I don't know if that answers your question.

Yeah, yeah. You're very organic. When I listen to you speak, I'm curious what gay's take is. It's clear that you're not just thoughtful about this, but you made some indications just about how you pay attention to little subtle, nuanced signs to make sure you're moving in the right direction. You meditate on this. You ponder. You do not appear to be rushed or desperate. It doesn't seem to be part of your.

M.O. in any way. And I'm curious. You said one thing, though, that got me. You said, I wrote it down on my gold card. Is that what you said?

Gold card.

Okay.

It is the gold card.

Okay.

That's how it happened. The magic.

I thought, wow, is there something.

I like that. Okay.

All right.

Yeah, go ahead.

I'm very. I'm very systematic about all of these things. And that's one of the things that I. That gives me comfort at least is, you know, When I. When you find a system that. That you think works or that might work, and if.

Yeah, Mike, here's what they look like.

Oh, this is a big leap.

This is a big leap. Go card.

All right, all right.

I can't. Well, yeah, we'll have to tell Troy about one of the ideas that we're noodling around here.

That.

Okay, I got it now.

All right.

One thing is what your reflection is on what Troy just said.

Yeah.

Well, it's fairly common in my life to have time speed up around me. That's just one of my superpowers in the sense that if a person thinks they can accomplish that, it's going to have to take two years to accomplish a goal. I open up a space for it to be accomplished in its own time, and that might be 12 months or. On the other hand, I'm just having a liquidity event this week of a investment that I made in 2008. So. What's that, 13 years ago? So some things, you just have to breathe with them. But what you don't want to do is place artificial limitations on yourself about how long things have to take. Because.

One thing I was really happy with that has taken place in our work together, Troy, is that you've been willing to let time really be your friend, to speed things up as far as manifestation goes, if that served your purpose. And then in other situations, take it easy to what we say here. Live in easy world where everything is easy, where you just let things come to you. You're not in hot pursuit. You might be focused, but you're not stressed out. In pursuit of something, you're allowing things to come to you. And so Troy is really getting masterful about that.

Yeah, I can really hear it.

Well, you know, we've covered quite a bit of territory here, and I know people's brain cells are probably lit up quite a bit. But as we bring this in for a landing, I want to ask Troy another big leap oriented and genius zone question at this stage of the game, what do you see your genius as, Troy?

I would say my. My genius is using spiritual principles to create great organizations or great companies.

To operationalize spiritual principles.

Yeah, I think so. You know, creating great organizations through spiritual principles and then, you know, being able to hand those off and. And, yeah, like you said, operationalize them. So being able to. To take these spiritual concepts that. That seem to be timeless across different religions and different spiritualities and then use them to create a playbook that I can use in my life and in my businesses. And eventually teach other people how to do that as well so that they can accomplish things. They can envision things and accomplish those things with joy and ease as well.

Yes. Well, sounds like something you might even want to write a book about someday.

I'm going to work on it.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. I have to have to share it somehow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll tell you right out of the chute. That really resonated with me. And if there ever was like that's.

You know, it's. I just wrote a few things up, which is just using spiritual principles to create great organizations or operationalize spiritual practices. Principles that could be a great phrase or word to encapsulate that I always like to say create a category of one brand, you know, so whatever that may happen to be. And it's. It ultimately it's. I don't know where. Who said living in Easy World if that was something you just said? Gay. But you know, it's. It's the pathway to live in Easy World.

Yes. Actually, I, I use that a lot. It came from a colleague way back, a long time ago named Julia Rogers Hamrick. She came up with that phrase and we talked about it a lot and I started using it in my own life. I don't know where she got it from. She probably got it from somebody else. You know, everything in our world is either a rip off, a spin off, or a knockoff. I don't think there are too many original ideas.

Yeah, Gay taught me Easy World. Maybe the first time we talked, I've been. I tell myself that every day. I live in Easy World where everything is easy.

Yeah. Since I started living in Easy World, everything's been easy. So I don't plan to go back.

Well, I think we just discovered the title of this episode. So.

Yeah, it really can be easy. So.

It would love to. Would love to talk more about this with you guys anytime you'd like and find ways to help other people learn these principles as well.

I think for sure you'll be back. There'll be different stages of this whole big case study you're running here. And so we want to be in on the whole thing.

Yeah, I think we'll definitely have you.

Come back after a big liquidity event.

Yeah, I think that's a great idea. And it's also a great opportunity for our listeners to post their comments.

On itunes or just send us a message. Go to bigleappodcast.com and let us know what you thought of this episode with Troy. This has been great. Or comments if you're watching this on video on YouTube too.

So.

Well, let's land this plane then. Is there anything, is there an ask that you have, Troy, for our audience or anything that you'd want to part words with?

No, I just as I think more about the idea of this intersection between entrepreneurship or creativity and spirituality.

Would love.

To know.

What'S most of interest to you. Is that a concept that's of interest to people? And if so, what questions might come to mind when you start thinking about that? Using spiritual principles to create businesses or to create other things more easily.

Good. And we'll put on the show notes how to interact with you if people want to send you an email or.

Comment on that kind of thing.

Yeah, absolutely. That would be great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thanks a lot for coming on and describing some of your big leaps. Great to be with you as always. And Mike, got anything else to say or ask before we get off? Well.

Here'S just one little nugget that I did in the background when you mentioned Dayton Maxwell's name. He's a good friend. I've known him for quite a while and I sent him a quick message and he says hi. So that happened in the background while we were chatting today. And he's another very conscious entrepreneur. I have a lot of admiration and respect for Dane. I just love his brain and I love his heart. More importantly.

Well, let's leave it at this. I think we've opened ourselves up for a follow up and let's see what kind of feedback we get. And if you're interested in learning more about using spiritual principles to create great organizations, we'll go deeper on that as well. And so, Troy, thank you. Gay. This has been a fantastic episode and I'll leave it to you if you want to say any final words before we wrap this up.

We really appreciate you for joining us and opening yourself to look, learning these new ideas that come from all sorts of different locations. But one thing is we always like to focus on people who are right out there doing it. Not just philosophizing about it, but are actually in the process of taking big leaps. So big appreciation to you, Troy, for taking those big leaps and for sharing those with us.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you guys so much for having me. It's great talking with you.

The same. Great. Thanks.