The Wealthy, Wellthy Podcast with Krisstina Wise + Mike Koenigs

But on the outside, it looked like you were the king of everything, but on the inside, it was chaos.

We had the largest grossing online marketing launch that produced $9.1 million in a week. The truth was, I was driven by anxiety and fear. The doctor came in and said, you have a 5 1/2 centimeter tumor above your rectum. It's about to break through in the rest of your body. You're minutes away from stage four. If we don't get that thing cut out of your dead man, you can.

Spend $100,000 and make a million dollars from it. Where it seems like money, it's the most inexpensive investment you can make.

You can live in a state of heaven all the time.

Michael, thank you for being on the Wealthy Wealthy podcast.

Always a pleasure. The answer is always yes to you.

I love you so much. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe we've not done a podcast together. How is that even possible?

I don't know. It's crazy. Well, I'll tell you what happened was we had scheduled when we were working on the next version of you, we were going to come into the studio, and I think we ended up focusing on the offer and some copy and stuff like that instead. And we said, hey, let's record in the future. Otherwise we probably would have done it in my studio here. So now we've got another date that we can schedule and get on the. On the books.

I love you. Well, when every time I can have a Michael Koenig's date, I'm like. It's like happy Christina.

All right, come on out. I've got a whole bunch of. Yeah, great.

I mean, for everybody listening, clearly we're. Michael is one of my BFFs in the entire world. I adore you. I love you as a human being. And then separately as the business master and mindset master and marketing master, and just for how masterful you are at making money, business, and your overall just incredible reputation. So I'm just honored that I get to be considered part of the Mike Koenigs friend group and get to be on your coattails every once in a while. So for every listening, just share some story. I mean, you've got such a great story from kind of where you started in Minnesota and then kind of grew up, and then your little start in business and then how you wound up and then you had a little health scare, serious health scare, and have reinvented yourself from there. So I know something specialized is really talking about identity and reinventing oneself. So share us a little bit about that through your own reinvention. Many times, sure.

Well, I think the kind of the basic story. Born and raised in a little tiny town of 763 people in Eagle Lake, Minnesota. I'm the oldest of four. My dad a barber. Both my parents came from.

Poor backgrounds. I mean, there was no money and no success in our families other than they're good people. Right. And my dad grew up on a tiny town in Iowa. He was the youngest boy of eight kids. And my mom.

Her mother was.

Bipolar and.

She was lobotomized at some point from depression and crazy. And so my mom and her sister grew up with an alcoholic, philandering fireman who was my grandfather, who is an awesome guy, by the way, despite all that. But the point is, I didn't come from anything special other than my dad worked his butt off. He came from nothing. Taught me good work ethic, gave me access to tools. From the time I was five years old, it was like, as long as you put them away, you can use all my tools. And so I learned to fix things, take things apart and figured out how things worked. And then next door to me was a VW repair shop. So I was around engines and cars and go karts and mini bikes and motorcycles all my life. But I was an alien in a little town and I just want to get the hell out of there. I wasn't great at sports. I hated school from the first day on. Never belong, never should have gone to school ever. I should have had a. Because I'm a kinesthetic learner, the only way I learn is by doing stuff. So.

I started working.

Whether it was shoveling or newspapers and all that from age 8, because dad said if you want something, you got to make the money yourself.

By the time I was 14, I taught myself how to write software. And my goal was to write video games. Run away from home and go work for Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak at Apple.

That didn't happen, but I did start writing code professionally at 18. That eventually turned into starting my first real company called Digital Cafe. It was one of the first digital marketing agencies in the world. We eventually got bought by one of the largest big agencies in Minneapolis. It was Campbell Mathune, a billion dollar a year company that was.

Publicly traded. Took some of that money and made a feature film with the guy who's my business partner, one of my best friends of all time. His name's Dean Hires. And we also did crazy stuff. Our clients for people like BMW, 20th Century Fox, General Mills and we did video games. One of them was a game that shipped in 6 million boxes of cereal. So I tell you all that stuff because we just made stuff up. We're poor kids from Minnesota trying to play a big boy game in a little boy town with no real mentors or guidance. But I just pulled stuff out of my rear end and made it up and people bought it.

Let me ask you, did you go to college?

Never. I did go to a tech school and right before I got kicked out, I got a full time job and they gave me my certificate. And I know now, I didn't realize it at the time, that way they got the state of the state, hey, we're placing people so they got bonus money or something. But no, I am a horrible student. I'm either the person teaching or I'm drawing attention to myself by doing bad things or not getting along well with authority figures and bureaucracy. So it'd be like I'll be the first one to say, hey, this is stupid. Don't do it that way. There's a better way. And that can be annoying unless you've got a collaborative teacher who thinks like a partner instead of an authority figure. So. So no. Do not belong. Do not belong, ma'. Am. No.

I love that. Well, and I hope you don't mind me saying this, but on a personal conversation earlier this week, you're reporting like, dude, I made a million dollars last quarter. So I just say that for everybody listening that all these mindsets and beliefs and you have to follow this certain path and do things a certain way and you've done it your own way and look what you've created. And that's just one mini accomplishment out of so many much bigger ones.

Yeah, yeah, it's. I'm very, very lucky. It wasn't an easy ride, for sure. And the truth was I was driven by anxiety and fear and this horrible feeling that if I don't figure out how to get it now, it's all going to go away and I'm going to be stuck with nothing and I'll never be able to make it go again. You know that there's some old DNA level anxious programming that took a long time to diffuse and figure out. And if you fast forward a little bit.

You mentioned health scare. So along the way.

Digital Cafe made the feature, I did some documentary work and I did at one point, right before I started, Digital Cafe did end up writing video games professionally, but then did two software companies. One was called Traffic Geyser, one was called Instant customer. They were two of the first marketing automation software companies in the world that were subscription based, what's known as SaaS, software as a service and had that for about 10 years, sold that and then the next real company other than selling a couple little things, I had done a couple little startups that we built to be bought, but then started you everywhere now. And we helped 1,800 business owners write books, become bestsellers, taught them how to speak, speak and sell, become authorities, thought leaders, sell digital products and create digital products, that whole thing. And one day I just couldn't take it anymore and I had to shut it all down and sell. Now if I back up a little bit. Five years prior to that, which is about 10 years ago now, I was diagnosed with stage three colorectal cancer, which just about killed me and pretty close to ruined my marriage too, which was my second.

So, you know, all that anxiety and I would say lifestyle, fear based, anxious.

Total workaholic stuff caught up. And I remember when I was diagnosed and I basically had blood shooting out of my rear and the doctor came in and said, you have a 5 1/2 centimeter tumor above your rectum. It's about to break through in the rest of your body. You're minutes away from stage four if we don't get that thing cut out of your dead man. So, and then my oncologist looked at me and said, I own your ass, literally and figuratively for the next year. And it really took about two years to get fixed. So that was happening while I had those two software companies. So it was like any entrepreneur, I was great at making stuff happen, great at selling stuff, great at vision it. But I was a horrible operator. And that really all that stuff collectively finally took me to where I am now, where I really figured out I love to launch, I love to create, I love to collaborate, hate running stuff.

I live in the People's Republic of California where it's so bureaucratic and anti business that my attitude is F you, I'd rather start the whole thing on fire and no one wins. Screw you. And I really believe in sovereignty and private property. And if you make it and you own it, it's yours. And screw the rules. So. And I do deeply believe that rules are for other people. So the rule makers can go to hell because they're usually just thieves who steal. There you go. That's me.

Well, you know, just so much your story, I just, you know, I learn more and more each time and of course I just so resonate being kind of the rule breaker myself, I've always said I'm.

You are.

Rules are for other people. Exactly.

Yeah. So, yeah, your entire story. So a couple things I want to delve into a little bit because a lot of this, I just call it like the entrepreneurial.

Facade in the sense of, I mean, I knew of you back then and I mean, I idolized you. I mean, the fact that we're friends now is kind of funny based on how fun. I mean, you were my idol, just marketing and everybody knew who you were. And Mike Koenig, I mean, your name was a household name and the digital marketing space and on all the stages and you taught the greats like Brendan Burchard and others that you were like the go to person and studied. You study with the greats and we're one of the greats. So on the outside, I mean, and you were making a lot of money too, but on the outside it looked like you were the king of everything. But on the inside it was chaos. It was chaos. You know, made a little bit of personal operational, team wise and even money wise, you know, many times. So talk about that. Like, what is it like underneath that, like you said, you're run by anxiety and fear. But is there anything that you can share to help people to get out of. I don't know, even who we idolize in a way, this illusion and things that just a certain something. Something is what we want. When. What did you learn from that? If you could do it over. It's like if I did it over again. Not that. Not that way.

Yeah, well, I think there's a few things. One is I wish I had the sense and the ability to actively find the best in the world and ask for help and become a student of theirs. So even though I've been essentially a coach for many years and I've coached a lot of people, I was too proud to ask for help. And I would say that was a flaw. And this is such a cliche thing to say, but the best investment you can ever make in yourself is invest in your capabilities and develop connections as early as possible. So I played the short game and. And that manifested in the form of like, we did what my companies are known for for a long time. We had the largest grossing online marketing launch that produced $9.1 million in a week at a $3.1 million day doing a direct to camera effectively. Like this is a live stream webinar before anyone was doing them when they were, it cost like 25 grand for streaming for a Day and I did a full 14 hour with no breaks other than running out and peeing, no food with guests on, just talking to camera and selling a $3,000 product. Okay. So as a result of that, I started getting a lot of calls from celebrity class people. So some people that I worked with. So I'm going to protect the guilty here. But I'll tell you about some of the big names like Tony Robbins ended up becoming a client and a friend. And Brian Tracy, Brian Hart or Darren Hardy. Obviously I work with some of the greats at the time. Dan Kennedy was one of my mentors and then eventually became a client. And then some of the big online marketing people like Jeff Walker, Frank Kern, Brendan Russell Brunson, I introduced all those guys to Tony Robbins, for example. We collaborated with him. So what I can tell you. And then there were other celebrities too. Paula Abdul was a client for a while. And what I really learned after working with a lot of celebs is first of all, I felt this need because I wasn't good enough. I didn't feel good enough, I didn't feel worthy.

And I never, I always felt like there was something wrong with me or something I hadn't done yet. So I wasn't worthy of asking for help, working with them, collaborating. And it, it kept me in a fear state. So that's just a poor little kid from Minnesota talking, right? And I can say I think I have some DNA level damage that I was brought into the world with. And I know this is common, right? So I had a big ass ego. Because the other thing was as a guru, you don't want to show any weakness or look as though you need help because you're afraid that that'll make you look small. And one thing I've learned from Jack Canfield, for example, who is the most coachable man imaginable, that guy is always, if he's at your event, he will be sitting in the front row, taking the most notes and asking questions that are like kindergarten level on up and he will use them. So unlike most people go in and their ego is in the way, they prevent stuff from entering their head and they're the last to implement.

So I think the other thing was when I say playing the short game and the reason I went down that big ass rabbit hole is what I got really, really good at doing for a long time was coming up with an idea, paying attention to trends, looking at what I knew people would want to buy, giving it a shiny package, a cool name, putting together a show, a Great offer and a pitch and making as much money as possible until it went away, until the trend went away. And if I fast forward it a little bit, yeah, sure. Made a lot of money, but burned a lot and pissed it away on maintaining the illusion instead of working on building a castle made of granite. So the long game is always better than the short game. I think it's good to exercise the short game. You get great capabilities and skills, and you learn how to pitch and move on your feet and innovate on the fly. But I did not surround myself with great operators, and I'm a horrible operator. I needed a great integrator and operator that would have been my best mommy ever and put me in an appropriate box. And then I. If I would have found someone who could temper and manage me, instead of me feeling like I got to be the rainmaker and the inventor and the implementer and the guy holding all this stuff together, it was like that was the treadmill I was on, and I created a mountain of chaos, but I didn't know what was real and what was chaos. So it's like. Some of that, I suppose, is wisdom and age, but I think this is a very typical entrepreneurial mindset that I'm describing, and it's very much of that quick start. I'm a 3295 on the Colby scale, which is a nine quick start. And we're not. You know, we can be nukes. You know, we're very shiny and bright, but you get too close, and you're like a bug zapper, you know, and you burn people out and cook them.

And so where did the ego part come into that? Is that because you wanted all the limelight on you or because you thought you could do it all or.

I think what happened was.

It wasn't like I thought I was better than anyone else. That was never the issue. The problem was, was I'd be the guy who could stay up for 48 hours. And I was a good speaker, good writer.

I knew what looked good. I'm not a designer, but I know I've got a good aesthetic. I knew how to perform. And then I had a technical background, which is very, very rare to be a creative and a technical. So I knew how to write code, and I knew if someone was screwing me so I could build and manage teams, and I'd get them excited about the next thing, and then what would happen is.

I was the guy throwing all the freaking feathers and marbles in the air and always frustrated and angry that other people had to leave after 12 hours and.

Have their balanced life. And I'm like, f you, we're going to win again before the money runs out because we're burning it all up so fast, right? So it was just like I was managing disappointment. I didn't know how to communicate a linear vision. It was just. I was just living in this now space. And again, I got so hypnotized and conditioned for living in a constant state of fear and panic.

And as a result, when you pull off miracles one after another after another with no one knowing just how unbalanced and fragile the rest of the business was.

And all the operational things, and I didn't know people were stealing from me. I mean, it was just stuff like that. It was just like we grew so fast. And instead of hiring based upon skill sets and character and core values, my hiring strategy was, hey, do you think you could do that? And they'd be like, yeah, I think I can do that. I'd be like, okay, go do that. And then I'd trust them. And then pretty soon I had a rotten.

I'd have two pieces of granite over here and nine sticks. It'd be like, you just can't build a good business that way that has long term value.

And then how much of that chaos do you attribute to getting sick?

I think I got cancer because I was living in a state of unmanaged rage and anger that I masked over with a smiley, happy face. And I had to pretend everything was okay because I was afraid the team and my clients and customers would abandon me.

Obviously I was working too much and I was playing hard. So it was pretty much I was on the road three weekends a month speaking somewhere and closing tons of deals.

And I liked it. But I had no idea because if I wasn't on fire on stage or in front of camera, I was hanging out with a bunch of party heads, drinking all night and then getting up in three hours. So eventually your body says, nah, nah. And there's every chance that because I grew up in a very.

In my small high school class of 60 kids, I think four of them have had colorectal cancer. So I grew up with an alfalfa field behind me, a soybean field in front.

Cornfield on the right, and a auto mechanic shop on the left. So somewhere I probably got exposed to some horrible stuff and swam in polluted creeks and rivers and streams and God knows. Plus I wasn't eating right. It was like fast food city and, you know, Dairy Queens and soda and caffeine And I wasn't doing any drugs, not then anyway. But I mean, I never could do any kind of drugs. I didn't have access to it. And again, I was just, you know, I may have been sophisticated on one side, but on the rest of them, I mean, I was completely clueless.

Was cancer a wake up for you? Was that a big pivot and a reinvention? Or did it, Was it.

Did you?

Because some people, they get sick and they kind of go back to the way it was. Others get sick and completely reinvent their entire life.

Yeah, well, the good news is because I was visible and I will say this was the second massive face plant that I had. And I'll actually say there were three massive face plants. So when I was 18 years old, one thing I left out is.

Within weeks after graduating high school, I left to go to a technical school called DeVry in Kansas City, Missouri. And I had no savings, nothing. And I just got in my car and I went down and I'm going to go learn programming. And I lasted for a couple months, but as soon as I got there, my car broke down. I ended up getting a job at a gas station. Then I was working at a computer store. And then I was doing something else. I started consulting. So I'm in this state of I'm going to run out of money. I mean, I'm living on nothing and going to whatever, happy hour.

And drinking a beer and then that's where my meal was every night. I was just living, I guess, a college kid. But I tried smoking weed for the first time in my life and I got high and I really liked it. And then some guy sold me some and I smoked too much and I had a nervous breakdown and I was hospitalized for a month and a half. And then I had severe flashbacks for about a year and a half. Half, then three years. All the while I'm maintaining. I got my shit together right? So that messed up my brain for a long time. And I was never treated. I didn't have any therapy. And like, I needed someone to say because I literally thought I was going crazy. And I had anxiety attacks for years after that. Seven years after, I'd have like, if I got cold, I just, I'd go back into spinning around and around in a state of deep fear. So that was face plant number one. Faceplant number two is I married my high school sweetheart and I wasn't present. This is in digital cafe days. She worked nights, I worked all the time. We barely saw each other. And we're Just young, stupid kids who were afraid of losing each other. It was young love.

Eventually, she couldn't put up with the fact that I was not present. And I was angry all the time. And one day, the locks were changed on my door. And if you fast forward a little bit.

That was the last time I've ever seen her. It was like the doors were locked. And then we got divorced, and there was a little bit of drama in between. And she wound up moving away with one of my employees, who's this really sweet guy. And they're better off for each other, with each other. And I don't really. Who knows what if or what anything was going on. The bottom line was this massive face plant. It devastated me. Like, here I'd known this girl since I was 16 years old. My first real love. We were just two stupid Minnesota virgins. And suddenly, boom, and again, my life fell apart. And I discovered Tony Robbins went to his events, created a life plan, got exposed to Deepak Chopra. Wayne Dyer and I had a spiritual evolution. And that's when, shortly after, we sold our company. So Faceplant, that turned into a massive transformation, a big shift. And during that time, I quit drinking alcohol. I became a vegan. I got in great shape. I was really meditating and got organized, but then again got thrown into this new chaos. Eventually met Vivian, and we got married about four or five years later and had a kid. And then the next chaos cycle happened, and then I got cancer. And that was the biggest shift and change in life where, I mean, I changed my diet, I changed my mindset, and because I was visible, I crafted a new identity that I think I really stepped into personally and publicly, and also became good friends with JJ Virgin. That's basically how we met Dave Asprey. I got. I had all these integrative doctors around me and functional medical doctors. Because Vivian used to work for Deepak Chopra, I had access to some of the smartest integrative folks in the world who are like, dude, you're so off the rails. If you don't change, you're a dead man. And I knew it. And one of our clients for one of the top functional medical facilities in the world, a place called Son Aviva in Mexico that we did marketing for. So I knew better, but I didn't know better. I was educated on one hand and completely ignorant of my behaviors and actions. And this was the. You know, the light and the gigantic brick wall that you smash your face up against, you know.

So who is the Michael?

How is the Michael different? Then like, once you, like, fully healed from that experience and. And you've kind of changed who you are and what you care about and how you've operated, was it obvious what you're going to do next and how you're going to do it, or was it like this? I'm not sure what I want to do next, but I know what I'm not going to do.

Yeah. So here's really what happened. So cancer was a big one. And when I got out of treatment, that's when I created what became you Everywhere Now. So I wrote my first book while I was getting treated, I was getting radiation treatment at Duke. And that's where basically.

So surgery, resection surgery is when they cut out half your colon. In my case, half my rectum. Rectum. They sew you back together and your digestive system's never the same. It's like, I couldn't eat bad, really bad stuff if I wanted to, because it'll find its outshoot very quickly. And.

You know, traveling can be challenging. I've got to be really careful about what's in me before I go anywhere. And that's just. That is just a given. But.

So there's that shift. But also, when I got back, one of my best friends at 35 years, a guy named Gene, he's my protector.

He came in and operationalized my company, and.

Our gross revenue went down, but our net profit dramatically increased. And my company started to run without me because we had subscriptions, thank God. So we turned that business around and ended up selling it. And again, a little bit of drama happened because the buyer wasn't who I thought it was, and some things fall apart. But the bottom line is I got some cash and I was left with the business that became you Everywhere now, which was publish and profit. We helped 1,800 people write books and become bestselling authors because I figured out how to essentially hack Amazon. And then we did the same thing. We created a speaking training. So we trained everyone. It's like, well, write a book now. You ought to be spe. Hey. Well, most people want to have a digital subscription, turn their knowledge into products. So we taught them how to make products. And I had 20 years of experience doing that. And then how to coach, consult, advise, how to charge a lot of money. And then I also had my big studio. So I media trained. That became the next business. And it was great until it wasn't, because that is a buy once and either implement or the best thing I could sell after that was a mastermind and eventually you outgrow your mentor, your master. Unless they're evolving in a direction you want to evolve with, someone's going to outgrow one or the other. I call it relationship velocity. And then all of our automated webinars just quit working. Our Facebook account blew up several times, and you'd go from a half million dollars coming in a month to suddenly with a couple hundred grand in overhead to suddenly nothing and the same amount of overhead.

Yeah, I'm watching my net worth get pissed away. And again, I start feeling that panic. And I was like, what am I going to do? This is all I know how to do. That's how. I'm hypnotized. And I can remember I'm just going nuts. And I'm like, I don't want to get sick again, so I've got to do something radical. And Vivian turned to me one day and she said, you're a multi, multi millionaire. You could quit working, maintain our lifestyle, and nothing bad would happen. And one thing I know about you and I've seen you do is you know how to pull and create money and value out of thin air. I've watched you do it for 15 years. Just stop. But in my head, the time and the money to shut that down.

And I knew it, because I had committed to hotels. I'd committed to a whole bunch of stuff. People had bought stuff. The money's already long gone, and it's going to cost me a million and a half bucks to shut the thing down, which is going to come right out of my personal net worth. What I've been fighting for, struggling for. For 30 years or.

Something'S got to change. And what wound up happening is I got some spiritual coaching that really, really blew my brain up. Like, these folks, one of them I never even met in person was just a name who coached me by text. Never even spoke to this person who I would wake up, and they were texting me the second I woke up, all right? Weird psychic connection. And they did compression exercises on me, which basically means, like, I'm panicking, something big is about to happen, and I'm not allowed to do anything for 48 hours straight. Like, nothing. And it conditioned me and taught me that nothing really bad's actually going to happen. And when I have to operate at the very last second, I will pull it out of my rear end and everything's going to be fine. And what happened was I designed.

Again, to make a long story short, I figured out a way to shut the business down while increasing My revenue and requiring zero overhead or support. Literally a business I could do 100% by myself, that was a super high end advisory company and I managed to wind down the business, net more cash than I ever had and elegantly wind it down being totally honest, just telling my entire following. I need a break. I'm going to retire from info marketing and doing events and the only thing I'm going to do is one on one coaching and advisory. Because I needed a remarkable reinvention myself. And if there's one thing I'm passionate about right now, it's reinvention and creating a lifestyle compatible business that you love your clients, you'll love your life, you earn as much as you want and it doesn't require bureaucracy, people who work for you that you genuinely hate, which happened to me over time. If your people aren't evolving with you, you resent them and resentment turns into hate.

Or it's just like that kind of thing. And I noticed that I talked, I started having these really honest conversations with other founders who are going through the same thing.

And what wound up really, really happening is I'd been in Strategic coach, I've been in it now over a decade. And I asked Dan Sullivan, the founder, I said, Dan, what do you think I should do next? And he gave me some incredible advice that to this day became the foundation of how I operate. And he calls it dos. It's dangerous opportunities and strengths. And he says, go out and have a DoS question with 20 founders.

And ask, just do the DoS with them. So the basic foundation of it is.

And I kind of adjusted this, so I added my own speech. But basically you asked something called the Dan Sullivan question. So I'd say, hey, Christina, if you and I were to meet here three years from today, what will have happened personally and professionally for you to feel happy with your progress? Okay? And by the way, Dan just said you can't sell them anything, you just have to listen. But the answer will show up, which is incredibly painful to me because I love to sell stuff, right? I'm always finding ways to help someone or fix something or do whatever. So we started with the Dan Sullivan question and then the DOS was, okay, so what are the dangers that are preventing you from getting that or having that? So you listen, listen, listen, I'm taking copious notes. The next question is, well, what opportunities do you have standing in front of you that you want to take advantage of but can't because of number one or you don't have the right capabilities or who's on your team. And again, you write those down. And then the last one is, what are your strengths? In other words, what are your unique abilities? What are your superpowers? What's your genius? Your genius of zone, or zone of genius is what Gay Hendricks calls it. So you write all those down. And as a result, and I did, I talked to like 20 people. And after three, I knew exactly what I was going to do next. Because almost every founder, almost every business person goes through.

A terror moment or multiple moments of fear, or they realize one day they've outgrown who they are, what they do, why they do it, who they do it for, or they get to a finish line, they've got their fu money in the bank, and then they either start drinking heavily because they've lost their purpose and their meaning in life, or they end up taking that energy and putting it somewhere else, like cheating on their husband or their wife. Or they self destruct, they burn all their money so they can get back into the comfort zone they're used to, which is feeling that pressure and that purpose and that meaning. But most of the time they never make it happen again because their demons come up and roar. So what I found is when I had that honest conversation with people and they knew my background because I was just an open book and I could say, look, I know how to create a killer brand. A category one brand, a killer offer that's easy to fulfill, that's lifestyle compatible, that can make you a lot of money. You can only work with people you love, your highest end clients, you can scale it or not, and all the supporting material you need so you can take it, go out and start making money right away. In fact, we can start doing it together. And I'll also make you a thought leader and a celebrity in your space. And what I don't tell them, but in the background, what I'm really doing is I'm going to give them a rebooted, upgraded operating system and an identity that matches the offer and the audience they want to work with. And because I like an impossible goal, I do it in three days. And I've done it over 100 times now. We've obviously worked together.

And I found my true passion, which is, is I love to create and collaborate and create rich playmates. And I hate operations. I don't ever want to build another business I have to run ever again. So now I get to create awesome businesses with people I love, help make a bunch of money and have more fun and have more free time. So then we can play together and go on trips. And that's why I do the mastermind in the background.

Well, there's so much, there's so much you've said.

So unpack that one. Unpack that one.

Yeah, exactly. There's a few things to unpack. Again, just to go back to this belief that bigger is better, you know. Yeah, lots of zeros. Bigger, better, more people.

500 fastest growing company or whatever. It's like, no, you know, again, if we get our side by side stories, it's just, it's so parallel. Even the less things. It's really funny listening to your story. I'm like, oh my God. But.

I think what you kind of discovered, even after cancer, you kind of found yourself the same place. All you knew was go big and lots of zeros and big stages and lots of stuff and people.

But that's kind of the way it's taught in a way that's that fundamental or that kind of that programming that entrepreneurs are taught the bigger is better. Go for more zeros and more zeros at any cost. And that's how you solve all your money problems, is just to have a bigger business. And the untold truth is that no, it comes at such a cost, and I mean financial cost and lifestyle cost and relationship cost and health cost. And especially if you don't have really the strong operational system that really carries the weight. But as entrepreneurs and founders, like you said, we can just carry most of that weight. And that's what took me down too, is being in a very similar place and then doing it again. And then what I heard you say and do after you had a conversation with Dan Sullivan.

But.

It'S funny, I did the same thing for myself, is okay, if I'm going to do this over and I'm going to do it. Exactly. That serves me. How do I answer the question, how do I create a business that earns me this amount of money? Kind of minimum makes me more great. But I don't need more if that's the case because more isn't always better. I know the good enough and gives me time for it. Gives me, I can work from anywhere. I can do it with fewer than five people on staff. You know that I can be location independent. So I just said, okay, what can I create that fits this criteria? And it took a while to figure that out. But same thing, I never want to operate a big business. I never want 50 employees again. I never, you know, but that's what you did. It's like you started with no, this is the life I want. So what type of business is going to serve me? And then the ego in check, if I'm listening correctly, is that, you know, there is a lot of ego when you're on big stages, you're getting clamored and you have 3,000 people in the audience and everybody wants your attention, you know, and it looks like you're making a lot of money even to yourself before you're focused on top line and not bottom line. And it feels really good, you know, just being clamored for all the time. But the ego, when you get over the ego part like you did, it's like, fuck that. I don't care about that anymore. I care about my life, my health, my family, my marriage now. And it has to be. I love this term. I mean, I'm going to adopt this term actually, with your permission. Lifestyle compatible. Like the business has to be compatible to my life.

I don't morph and control my life to the business. And that's what entrepreneurs do.

Yes.

Or they think some future time when the business makes some money, then I can focus on these, you know, my relationships. Or it'll get easy at some point. But every stage of the business is a new problem. It's never like it gets easier.

Yeah, you're exactly.

And what got you here won't get you to there. The only solution is to upgrade the who's in your life to take care of the hows you don't have to do. And for you to have the ability to stay in your zone of genius, really know yourself and.

Be the creator, be a chairperson, not a CEO or a president.

So as you were going through that, I took a few notes and I'm going to give you some of my observations along the same line. I really want to hear your take on this too, but I'm going to give you sort of like some of my core fundamental rules. Then I have a really, really good story to tell you about how life can be completely different as a result of adopting.

I have a process that I go through. No, let me just tell you the facts first. So first of all, the big takeaway is simpler and fewer doesn't mean less.

That is so good. Holy cow.

Isn't that just a yum yum Juicy.

Simpler and fewer doesn't mean less. Holy shit.

Yeah. Yeah. And if that doesn't bend your brain, nothing will.

You've had to have literally flopped face down on coarse cement and get dragged through the gravel until you're bloodied and battered to really, really get that. In my case it meant having half of my innards, half my guts and losing, you know, blowing up a marriage because I was ignorant and stupid, not present. And I'd say most of this is ignorance and some of it, like if you know better, then it's stupid. Okay, so that's the other part of this is at some point there is no excuse and I could do a, you know, I could get on a soapbox about the level of stupid that exists right now. When everything is free. You can learn practically any skill and do anything in the world because you have a mobile phone and Google, okay. And the fact that you've got poverty and stupid walking around or obese or is unconscionable in my opinion. And all you gotta do is fly to stare at the unimaginable, untempered.

Feral humans that are among us as a result of the lockdowns. It's insane. But back to happiness. So here are the things that I've learned that conscious, sovereignty minded people and founders have in common, which is a switch goes off and they realize the purpose of your business is to create freedom. That is all.

And if you don't treat it that way, it will come and bite you in the ass.

And you can time compress, you can live in a time machine, which is just being more effective. And it also means this is something else that just like if you think about it, this is. You'll slide into a beautiful time machine. The quality of your life is directly proportional to the quality of attention that you give.

The things that matter.

And if you think about it, the only thing you really have that you own is your attention and where you put it. And the reason we're surrounded by stupid and ignorant right now and selfish is where people focus their attention. And it rhymes with social media. Okay, I don't touch it at all. I pay someone to do my social media. It's still useful to some degree. I never look at it at it, I supply stuff for it. But if you wanted to dip your head into a giant toilet, it rhymes with TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and if you don't want to smell like poop, then don't eat it. Now, moving right along.

So we have a few MK quotes here. Simpler and fewer doesn't mean less. That is spot on. I mean, I'm always talking about simpler is better, but that doesn't mean less is key to the mindset.

That's such a fear. What if I run out? What if I don't have enough what if I'm not enough?

Right. And then so the purpose of my business is to create freedom. Absolutely. Like that's what this is all about. And you know, I learned that with my first business that was kind of similar to yours that I did. I mean I created this business, I ended up painting that owned me. And I thought I was doing it for freedom to have my own autonomy to be the boss business. I was an entrepreneur. I didn't report to anyone. It's like, dude, no, I had no freedom. That business owned me. I mean there's always a problem, there's always drama. I couldn't go on vacation. I mean all the things, like there was no freedom. And when I woke up, kind of a similar situation, like what the hell did I do? I spent 10 years of my life to build just, you know, a gold plated jail cell. You know.

So it's just such an important piece. And then the third one, I don't know if I quoted it right, but the purpose, I mean the quality of life is in direct proportion to the attention I put towards the thing I care about most is that it's directly.

Portion of the quality of attention that you give things that matter quality of attention. So again, this requires some meditation. If that became your meditation for a week, I promise it'll change your life because and if you just set a little reminder, a little timer that buzzed on your Apple watch went off every 30 minutes and you said, is the thing I'm paying attention to right now, first of all, does it matter and am I giving it all of my quality attention? Okay, so imagine any skill, anything you want, anything you desire, if you gave it get quality attention. And you turned off everything that wasn't quality and you focused on what capabilities do I need to personally add or what? Who's with the capabilities to help make that real? Must I focus on that is a magic formula. It is literally a magic spell to help you achieve experience or have anything in the universe. I believe that Elon Musk think about what he's doing. He's thinking about going to Mars, he's launching rockets and countries. Can't pull off what he does personally. No matter what anyone thinks about him. It's just look at the facts, look at the evidence.

I've heard the quote, the quality of your life is in direct proportion to the quality of your relationships. But I like this better. In this case, it's the quality of your life is in direct proportion to the quality of the attention you give your relationships.

Yeah. Or things or Whatever.

It's people or things just in the relationship contest. Absolutely. So, yeah. Love the rules. Do we have any more rules?

I have a couple more, so. And then I'm going to tell you a little story that literally can change your life because it will upgrade the one thing that stands in the way of you having anything that you want in your life. And it's that profound. Okay, so that's a hell of a headline. I know. But here's what it is. So I said, freedom, sovereignty, lifestyle, compatible. And then no aggravation. So I have a rule that I've instated and no person, place or thing can create more than 5% aggravation in my life or I ban it. Okay. We were talking right before we started rolling Atlanta.

I hate that airplane. I vowed I will never go to that airport ever again. If someone wants me bad enough, they'll have to fly me private. Because if it involves going through Atlanta, it's a hell no, period. That place is nothing but aggravation to me. And I've got other ones. I sound like a crabby old man. I understand that. But I'm okay with it. I don't care if someone doesn't like me. I don't care what they think, not even a tiny bit. And the people that probably don't think like me would aggravate me. So they're already off my list. I say that just to illustrate a point, but here's the other one. It's no A holes. And what oftentimes you believe when the secret component that we're going to fix in a moment isn't at a 100% level, is that you have to put up with someone's BS or have to put up with an A hole in order to get your scraps to get what you want or what you think you need. It's like, well, if I don't do this, then I won't get that. And it's like, if you lead like that, that is why you're stuck right there. So I'm going to give you the antidote that just happened to me recently. So here's the story. I got approached by someone who. He's not a billionaire, but he's probably in that area because his companies make a couple hundred million dollars a year and he keeps tens of millions of it. Okay. I can't say the exact numbers because that'll, you know, if this person identifies or whatever, but what happened was talked to him and we spoke for a little while. And when I enroll someone in working with me, you know, I have a series of questions that I ask and.

I charge a lot of money because.

If you don't show up with a lot to lose and a lot of skin in the game, you won't. If you want a miracle, you got to invest like it's a miracle and show up like you want a miracle to happen. And if it isn't enough that that investment stings, if you lose it or you don't show up 100%.

I'm not going to be able to give you my 100%. Right. It takes absolute, total commitment. That's why I do things in a workshop style three days in a row, one on one, because I got to install a brand new operating system and kickstart and create a new identity and something that you adhere to. So this guy was like.

Yeah, I want to do this. I'm pretty much a 10 on a scale 1 to 10. And then he was kind of wiggling around. He called me one day and I took his call, which normally I wouldn't. I was with a friend doing a bike ride. But I see it, I'm like, yeah, shoot, I'll take a call. And he started asking me, grilling me these questions. And one of the first ones is, hey, I really want to work with you, blah, blah, blah. But I want this to be an investment with both of us. Basically, what he's saying is, I want you to work for free and build this under some vague pretense. And I go, so right away. Oh. And he asked me a couple other really, really good questions that I know he didn't really know the answer to, but I have to get to the main thing. What he realized when we were first talking is I gave him an idea and he said, oh, my God, I'm thinking way too small. That's exactly why I need to work with you, because I'm not thinking big enough. Enough. And he had this big realization of how he's focused on little stuff, and that's why he's not getting where he wants to go. Even though this dude's doing a couple hundred million dollars a year anyway, he calls me up and asks me all these questions. Then he does the I want you to work for free. Doesn't word it that way. It's a lot more clever. And I go hard, no. And I'm going to tell you why. Okay? So first of all.

If you're. I don't even. I don't know. First of all, if you're going to do what you're going to say you're going to do. I don't know if I like you yet. And I got to make sure you produce. And if you don't have skin in the game, you're not going to show up. And if this isn't painful for you to lose, you're not going to show up 100%. And so I do joint ventures. I will do a collaborative partnership, but it's after you've got skin in the game and after you show up and after you prove. And I got to see how you behave and operate, and I got to know that we're values compatible. Okay? Now, by the way, that is one of the most powerful flips you can give someone as to why you charge. What you have is they're like, I don't know if I like you. I don't know if I trust you. I know I'm the best in the world at what I do, okay? And rich people, nothing drives them crazier when someone says no to them. Okay? Okay. So the second one is. Oh, yeah. So anyway, we went through these questions. I clearly passed the test. And he said, okay, I'm all in. I'm going to wire you the money. And then the next day, he sends me a text message over, which is basically, hey, I talked to my team, and we've got other things working on, and I don't want to take money out of their budget to do this thing.

And. Which I basically call the poopy diaper syndrome, which is everyone craps their own pants all the time and sits in their poopy diapers and gets used to the smell and eventually likes it, okay? And unless you have the courage to listen to someone when they say, you love the smell of your own crap, and I'm going to kick your ass and get you out of those poopy diapers, I'm not going to clean them for you. I'm going to kick your ass. Okay? Because that's really what you need. You think wrong and you think too small. But then. And so they also panic when they've made a commitment and they realize that they're going to lose control and have been running a racket for a long time. Okay? It's what Landmark Forum calls it. So basically what I did is I made an audio, and I basically set.

Let me just see here, I'll read you.

Oh, yeah. So I'm going to give you a couple things, and I know this is going a little bit longer than you wanted, but so number one, if you don't pay. Don't pay attention. You need to put skin in the game and show up like you say you are. Before I can trust you. Number two, you need to prove to me you're willing to put the work and commitment to do what you say you want to do. Three, I don't know if I like you enough to partner with you. Why would I take all the risks? And then I'm rich and I don't need your money and I don't work with ballers who don't put skin in the game and don't show up. So prove you're one.

And by the way, here's where I really got him. I said, first of all, you committed and then you change your mind for a BS reason and you're using someone else's budget. And I said, this investment has nothing to do with them and this other business, this is an investment in you, okay? And I don't accept this.

Crap. It's just. It's a lie. And.

So you've got to realize that. And I'm looking for my exact notes here.

Because there is a nuance besides, like the final piece. Am I going on too long here? Because I know I'm doing a lot of yap.

Again, there's. I mean, what you're doing is telling a story. I mean, while you're looking for that. But it's really just to give people their bullshit back to them. I mean, everybody's so full of their own bullshit, like you said, their stinky diapers. And they're not used to somebody giving it back to them and.

Or being rejected. Right.

But many times, you know, certain power. Nobody, nobody kind of goes up against that. And so they get away with their own bullshit over and over. But where you're coming from, you have to be in a place that's like, I don't need you and I don't need your bullshit. So, you know, here it is. Like, I'm going to call it like I see it and move on.

I'm going to give you the exact wording here, okay? So here's what it is. I met with team and we are going to hold off for now. We have other pressing items they need to spend money on. And my response was, what you and I are doing has nothing to do with budgets. Teams are them. It's for you, not them. It's not an expense. It's not a budget line. It's item. It's an investment in you. And that's where I said, if you hesitate and come back, my prices double. And that's if I choose to work with you. I don't work with people who waffle and make excuses.

That's awesome.

Oh, yeah.

And that's the fourth item here. What I have is what I failed to say when he committed at the time, which I'll never make this mistake again, is, okay, so you're committed, you're in. Great. I'm going to take you at your word and I'm just going to tell you this right now. And that's where I'd insert. I will never work with someone who waffles. So if you say this and you don't follow through for whatever excuse comes along, if I were to ever work with you, the price will double. Okay. And that's if I choose to work with you. Okay. And.

You really, you got to test people and they have to prove and if they say something, you got to put them in a box where they're going to squirm if they don't do what they say they're going to do. And there was a time when a, I was so afraid that if I lost this thing, it might mean I might go hungry or something might happen. That's such bull crap. It's such a lie. And if you bend over once because you're afraid.

That is your character and you'll do it over and over again until you learn that lesson. And so the point of this whole long story is this. The one thing that is preventing you from experiencing or having anything you want in life, having a perfect, simple, abundant, free life, is your self esteem. And that comes down to identity. And it's why I always say you walk in thinking you want a business or thinking you want whatever. It's like what I can't tell.

The unawakened is what you need is a new identity and you need an upgrade to your operating system. And what is missing, what you need is an offer to make that represents who you are at your core. And I don't care if it's a or a watch or an Apple computer or a service. It's an offer with a story. It's a great pitch that you can passionately get behind. I don't care if it comes in the form of copy or a video, but that's what will give you purpose and mission. Which means you are going to engage and put your reputation on the line saying, I will give you value that exceeds what you invest.

So you can unpack that one. Boom. There.

There you go. Well, I think as we're kind of closing out. That's a good stopping place in that to be a little bit more specific. You and I have been friends for a long time, and then you became my coach, and I became a client this last year, and I wrote a great big check to work with you. Biggest check I've ever written to work with anyone, number one.

The fact that I wrote that big check to somebody I really care about and love as a friend feels really good to do business with people we care about, you know, And I can't really say enough to that. Like, if we all did business with good, you know, it's not just about friendship, but if somebody's the master in their field and their friend, like, wouldn't we rather give our money to them in a way? Like, why aren't we doing more business with friends in a way, I've always wondered, like, why aren't we really supporting one another? If you have the help. Help I need and I have the help you need.

Yeah.

Why don't I pay you your fee and you pay me my fee. But that's one thing. Like, it just feels so good. And what I think has happened is we become closer friends coming out of that experience as well. So just love that piece. But talk about just maybe using me as an example. We spent three days together. It was almost six figures for three days to work with you. And, you know, I had to give my own goal because that was a big check. And at the end of the day, same thing. I had to check with my own mindset. Like, it doesn't matter how much it costs as long as the value gets a multiple return out of that, which it already has, and we've barely gotten started. So it's like one of the most inexpensive. I mean, I've made $10,000 investments, and I didn't get jacked shit out of it. It's just like burning a $10,000 bill versus you can spend $100,000 and make a million dollars from it. Where it seems like a lot of money. It's the most inexpensive investment you can make. So it's an example that I, like.

Quit making decisions by how much money something costs. Make decisions about paying the money it takes to get the results you want, period. And that's a good example of working with you. So real quick, just to share with everybody what you used, maybe me as an example, what we did over the three days for people that had the specific help that I need that you could be a good solution for.

Okay, So I think in Your case. And you have this beautiful thing which is a mom, daughter, business relationship. You love each other, you're good at different things. It's very, very rare and very beautiful. And what I told you is.

There'S a few challenges that I see. One of them is.

I think your product's too cheap and it's worth a lot more than it is. Okay. I also said you could sell the same product to a higher end audience that appreciates it more and get 10 times more for. So I always start. It doesn't matter who's selling what. If they have a $5,000 product, I'm like, let's create a $50,000 offer. I got one guy, I won't mention his name on here, but you know him because I introduced you to him. We're creating a million dollar offer because he's the best in the world at what he does and he sells to the biggest brands in the world. He sells people, right?

So I think that's the first thing is upgrade your audience, upgrade your, your offer, and then upgrade your story. And for you, for example, I think you're a complex human being. Okay? You've been through a lot and what's missing? And remember when we were doing the sales letter the other day, like a week ago, you and Macy and I met and I basically channeled the voice and we didn't get into your personal story because we focused on that, but it's the fact that fact that I have built it and lost it three times and now.

I'm completely financially free and if I were to lose it all over again, I could get it back again and I could do it faster. And now I'm doing it for you and with you. So I'm going to show you how to think about money differently, which is really the problem you have. Even though I'm going to give you the shortcut to earn more, save more, grow faster, and do it with less risk, and I'm going to expose you to the who's that I vetted and done business with in some cases for decades. That would take you decades. So why don't I give you all the shortcuts so you can have it all now? That's effectively what we do together, is we take the who you are. And some people will be like, well, I don't want the brand to be about me. And I like, that's stupid. And I'll tell you why. Because if you're out there telling your story, people will trust your brand 10 times faster and they'll pay you 10 times more.

Apple won, and they're arguably, at any given time, one of, if not the most valuable company in the world. First of all, because the products don't suck and they're not PCs or androids. That was a jab to all Android users. But more importantly, it's Mac versus PC. You got the fat PC and the cool hipster Mac. You got us versus them. Apple products are for creatives and creators. If you want to be recognized and known and understood and heard, this is the tool you use that's embedded in the DNA of the brand. And so getting back to what we do for you, I think part of it was, was I needed to help you appreciate how freaking amazing and what a genius you are and live into that and see the potential in you that everyone else either can see if you said the right things in the right order in the right way and also presented a killer offer that lit them up using some language. It's like if you have your own theme song, it's going to affect people a certain way. People walk in and have that wow moment, because the packaging in your hotel, like, this place is where rich people go who are cool versus this is where dumb people go. Right? And so that's what we created. It was, I think, the wise money system and shoot for the moon. The fastest way to make a billion dollars is help a billionaire make 10.

Right on. You got to live in that, baby. You got to live in.

That's right. So anyway, just I wanted to shout out to you. You've changed my life in so many ways. I mean, like I said, I love you to pieces personally, and then professionally, you're an absolute genius. Anybody listening should absolutely, positively work with you. And let's wrap up a few final questions that I like to close out the show with.

Right on. I won't go as long this time. I just want. I want a Christina backpack. I want you with me all the time.

I love it. All right, so it's say, Christina, if you really, really knew me, you would know that. What's something that most people don't know about Mike Koenig?

I played the didgeridoo and I played on nine albums, including an IMAX film. That's kind of weird.

That is kind of weird.

All right, then. Yeah.

I did not. It's indirectly how I met Vivian. In fact, it's the thing that the thread that connects everything together was my didgeridoo playing.

That's so fun. All right, give me a humble brag. What's something that you're really proud of that you don't really get an opportunity to share.

Well, when I love someone, I love them through all of their flaws and their frailties, and I.

Do not abandon the people I love.

So true.

You're such a good lover, just of friends and family and.

Thank you.

Such a big heart. On the flip side, you've kind of shared one of these. But what would be, like, the most colossal failure, where on one hand you're like, fuck, I'd never do that again. And on the other hand you're like, well, yeah, I wouldn't be where I am doing what I do today if it weren't for that thing.

It's a little thing that, like, oh, my God, even to this day, it just melts my heart. Art. So my son Zach, who's now about to turn 20, we're visiting one of my favorite people in the world. It's a couple. He's since passed of cancer. Actually, he had cancer when I did. But these are the people who I wrote video games for. So they had one of the first Mac game companies, and they moved to Arkansas after they sold their business and lived completely off the grid. Total sovereignty. They farmed, they grew their own stuff. They had a fish pond, an ant, animals. And I used to go there out in the woods and stay with them for a week. And I. I brought Zach when he's just a little boy, like three or four on. And I can remember we're all together one day, and, like, it was all about Zach and Mike. So we were making fishing poles out of bamboo and catching fish and then catching tree frogs, and, you know, we butchered a chicken, for example, which is, like, I've always exposed him to, like, this is where meat comes from, you know, and. And he's never. It's always been done with honor, but.

We'Re talking. So the husband and the wife and I were kind of brainstorming, and I'm like, oh, man, I brought my camera. Let's make a documentary while I'm here. And little Zach heard that, and he gave me this look, and he started to cry because he knew I had shifted all my love and attention onto something else. And I was like, I will never, ever, ever do that again. And I felt like such a piece of crap as a parent at that moment. And that face of loss and sadness and watching him just start to, you know, fall apart and cry, it still breaks my heart thinking about it. And thank God I made a recovery. And I'm like, no, Work all you. Let's go out and catch more fish. So we made fish traps, and, you know, I did all kinds of stuff. It was a blast.

At least you caught it. I'm not sure too many people would have.

Yeah. Oh, there are times when I have it. I mean, I had to measure. You did ask what's the worst? So, I mean, that was like, I got a couple hundred more.

That's the thing when, you know, the failure question is like, all right, I'm going to pause here because I don't know which one's, like, the dooziest of all doozies.

You know, it's like, where you create trauma in your children's lives. That's way up there, right? Because we all live with. And it doesn't matter what you do, you're going to create trauma. They all need that. They all need the therapist. I mean, the rapist. I mean, therapist in their life. Not a curious word.

I told my kids, like, I'll pay for all the therapy you need. Like, that's just, you know, I did write. I just know you're going to need therapy. So just whenever you need to go, send mom the bill. All right, one final question to wrap us up. Best a myth for us. What's a big myth that you see just kind of a big fat lie out there that you'd like to call out?

I hate cold weather. Okay. And I told myself forever that if I moved from Minnesota, all my connections would disappear. All the relationships that I'm dependent on that are feeding me will disappear. And while when it was Vivian who said, let's move, and we ended up moving to San Diego and I tripled my income, dramatically improved the quality of my life. I mean, I happen to think San Diego is the best city in the country to live in and probably one of the best in the world for a zillion reasons. And I was terrified that by moving and giving it up and when I talk to people, I'm like, oh, as soon as my parents die or as soon as this happens, then I'll finally. And it's like right now, this second, and I'm stealing a phrase from one of my clients, Charlie Epstein, which is, this is the healthiest you're ever going to be. This is as good as it's going to get. Most likely, it's going to go all downhill from here, statistically speaking. Okay, Believe whatever you want to believe. So you do not want to be the 80 year old with bad knees at the base of kilimanjaro. Watching the 30 year olds walk down sprinting and bouncing and you sit saying, I stayed at home and I did what I thought I was supposed to do and now it's too late. And it's sort of like too late's tomorrow. So you, the, you can live in a state of heaven all the time and next door to you in the same environment as someone who lives in hell based upon the decision and the choice and the belief you have have and hence politics in America right now. But I mean, it's sort of like, choose your hell, baby, choose your heaven. I choose heaven all the time. Yes, we have it right now.

Michael, thank you so much again. Adore you, love you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for saying yes.

And the answer to you is always yes. I love you more.

Okay, Love, love. Thank you.