Episode 306: D’s Get The Greens with Justin Goodman of Total CSR

Welcome to the Unstoppable Profit podcast. This podcast will give independent insurance agents all of the tools to grow your business and live life on your terms. Wherever you are today, if you're starting with nothing or well on your way to the success you desire, with the right people, processes and promotions in place, you will be unstoppable. And now I'd like to introduce your host, Mike Stromso.

Greetings everyone. Welcome to the next episode of the Unstoppable Profit Podcast. Imagine you have a growing independent insurance agency business and you can't keep up with the training of your people. What do you do? If you've been listening to this podcast for any amount of time, you know two of my biggest issues that I've identified across America, across North America, and growing thriving independent insurance agencies is things that need constant improvement is leadership and training. Leadership and training. So if you've got that ongoing training need, what do you do? Think about this with me for a minute. Olympic champion world class athletes, how often do they train? Daily, right? Sometimes twice daily or more. What about your world class independent insurance agency team full of budding a players who need training? Well, you're in the right place because Today I have Mr. Justin Goodman on the podcast and he's going to share with us all that he has to help your independent insurance agency business. And if you already partner with Total csr, well done. Smart move on your partner. He's going to bring us up to date on the latest. Justin, welcome to the podcast.

Great to be here and just happy to have a chance to talk.

No, ditto. We're thrilled that you're here as well and we're extra thrilled that your brother Jordan was at our recent UPB grand mastermind, shared with everybody the story of Total CSR and so much more. He had a really great time just sharing it and everybody was engaged and loving everything they heard. So thank you for your support there. So in case anybody doesn't know the story or knows a little bit of it, how did you get to where you are now? And I know you guys were in or are in the independent insurance agency business as well. Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, so we're actually third generation in the business. My grandfather actually started the first agency and he was dying of cancer and did not have the appropriate amount of life insurance. And so my father, who had just graduated and was working for a construction company as a cfo, agreed to buy the business back from him and so he took it over and then within months they discovered that the bookkeeper was double paychecking herself and the largest accounts left. And so essentially my dad just was buying something that had no value anymore. But he was pregnant, he was in the insurance business so that's what he was going to do. He went on to grow and scale his agency and then an MGA as well. He sold that to Arthur J. Gallagher back in 1999. That was after he came to me and said, Justin, will you ever come to this business? I said, heck no. And then sure enough, I met a girl in college and I said, I think I'm going to marry her. And recurring commission sounds good. Begged Arthur J. Gallagher for a job, went to work there for about four years and then ultimately bought our division back from Arthur J. Gallagher with my brother and started Goodman Insurance. Then we scaled Goodman Insurance and really along the way what kept being a recurring theme is I want to have. Well my, my whole background's artisan contractors, construction work and I wanted to be able to have experts that were handling my customers needs. The problem was I didn't have the staff because I didn't have the, the funds to hire like the big public companies could. And so my only alternative was to train individuals. Well, the training went so well each time and we were able to bring in new to industry hires, but our competitors would then find them, pick them off and say thanks for training this new person. And I kept repeating the process. Longer story short, I came to my brother one day, said why don't we do it a different way? Here's my idea. And I said, we can do it ourselves. And he said, sure, but also we're not smart enough to do it ourselves. We need somebody on the LMS side, LRS side. So we brought in our other partner, Trent and started Total CSR as just Commercial lines focus. We had no idea that we were going to do anything but new hire training for commercial lines. And really the reason we chose Commercial lines was that was where I spent my time. But also none of the existing education options out there provided solutions for the practical side of the business. How to complete the Accord forms, how to check policies, how to process endorsements. And we said, oh, there's a fit here. And then when we started talking to others then they said, oh, we'd like to try that too. So that's basically how we came into existence. We sold our agency to Assured Partners a few years ago which then got acquired by Arthur J. Gallagher. Bringing it all full circle. And yes, Arthur J. Gallagher is a customer of Total CSR today. And so all is well in that. That circular world that I live in.

Do you still have your fingers in the pot?

Still do.

That's awesome. You just said something that I wanted to clarify. You also teach through Total CSR how to check policies also.

Yeah, and it's on the rudimentary side. We teach the concept and practice it. We were going to go into more depth, but when we were going to do that, then we saw so many outsourcing companies and now with the AI companies that I've seen and some of the policy checking, we said our time is spent better elsewhere.

Yeah, got it. Fantastic. So I only asked that question because we were privileged as an independent insurance agency, business Stromso Insurance Agency to be one of your about first 15 customers. So we had multiple seats from total CSR in our agency. It was definitely one of our training requirements when we brought a new team member into the agency, whether they were experienced or not. Like, we had people that come in that have, you know, 15 years experience in the industry still. They went through our way of doing things and included Total CSR as part of their training. So thank you for making that available. It definitely helped us grow and scale as well. So let's talk about today's Total csr. And by the way, you have teammates as well. If anybody hears anything here today and they want to jump on a demo, I believe Ashton Danger Volk is still on the team.

Yes, she is.

So anyway, I ran into her earlier this year at an event and I had never met her before and she introduced herself and I don't know how we got on middle names and she offered to pull out her driver's license. I said, no, I believe you. So anyway, that's for another day. So she can help with that as well. If you hear anything that piques your interest, jump on a demo and find out more. I mean, that's the best way to do it.

Is this just.

Is your platform just for larger agencies or who are you for? Who can you help as an agency?

Typically we see the smallest agencies we service seem to be four to five people.

Okay.

But we have a range from four to five to. Marsh is a customer, Gallagher is a customer. AP was a customer. So we have almost all the large companies as well. The use cases vary and in some cases we have smaller agencies where it's the owner who has decided he wants to go out onto his own and he's starting and he may have somebody part time, but he then realizes, oh my gosh, the account executive I had doing all this Work all these years actually did something and now I need to learn how to do it. So we have just different use cases depending upon size of organization.

Yeah, and I know you continue to evolve and you have multiple things available within total CSR and as you evolve and I know you have teammates that build things out, but just give us a taste of what's included in the platform.

Yeah, so we have a number of different things in our platform. When we were deciding on our business model, we kind of wanted to be this Netflix subscription expensive one, but like get it all in there. So when you're looking to hire people one, we help with job posting, we help with assessments. We assess for aptitude, emotional iq, computer literacy, personality profiles, as well as coverage knowledge, practical skill sets. So we run the gambit there. We also then pass that, allow you to assess your own team members. And then so let's say if you're assessing someone for their knowledge level, they may say, well, I've passed out of the CGL test, so I don't need to go through new hire. Maybe I take this intermediate course for that. So we've got that. We have our AI tool, Ask Ellie. That's our. If you think of it in the AI world, it's a coverage specialist for insurance. And we get, I think right now we have over 1500-2000 searches a month on our customers. Just asking questions of Ellie. Coverage questions and answers with great nuance, highly accurate. So that's part of what we also offer. We released our retained product, just what's that about a month ago at Applied Net, month and a half ago at AppliedNet. And that was really born out of the need for more micro learning. That was small daily dosage that. Long story short, I went down a rabbit hole on how we learn because I've always struggled with learning and odd that I end up in the education space, but here we are, right? But one of the things that kept hitting me over the head was if you go get a designation, doesn't matter if it was ours or anybody else's, I quiz you a year later, what you remember from that course is going to be a fraction of what you think it will be. And it's based upon how the mind works. And so there's this thing called the Ebenhas forgetting curve. And it shows how quickly we lose knowledge if we don't have frequent interaction with the information. It's why if you asked account manager how to issue an auto ID card, she, she or he could do it in their sleep because they're doing it all the time. But if you're asking them about a cyber liability policy that they may only deal with once in a while, they're going to have a harder time recalling that information. So with our micro learning, what we've done is these small daily snippets, we go coverage line by coverage line. So General liability is 90 separate MIC lessons. But past that and past its interactive 5 to 7 minute version, what we do is we have quizzing that takes place over spaced intervals and it's designed to trigger that recall and move short term memory to long term memory. And we're able to tell two things. One, is the person at the end of this period competent? Would I trust them to explain it to a customer? And two or three, we're able to identify overconfidence associated with false answers. So there are people, and we all have them in the agency who are the most confident person and they explain the wrong answer to everybody. Biggie, no risk. And so our system will flag when they are highly confident and dead wrong. And it'll notify the admin that you need to sit down with them on this specific part of the coverage line so that you can have a conversation. Then we add additional resources to help reinforce that. So that's our most recent product offering. And then lastly, we've got license tracking. We had a number of agencies who were just tracking licenses via Excel sheets and, and there's great options, roads and others that are doing some more sophisticated things. But we said why don't we just do this at basically our cost for these agencies to have a tracking mechanism and be able to notify them of a license status change. So that's also part of our product offering and we just continue to grow and build and we're really doubling down on the content and the learning systems these days. And that's where I think what you'll see us go to is the individual learning paths of the future, especially with AI will be we're going to have data on how your individual user learns and what has been most effective for them versus least effective. And to be able to custom tailor content in order to ensure we get them on ramped and, you know, competent as quickly as possible in a way that works best for their mind.

Wow, fascinating stuff. And I love everything that you just said. So back to that, you know, licensed account manager CSR that you were just talking about, in my mind, I'm thinking about daily doses. I think that's what you said. There was up to 90 daily doses per Coverage line.

Yes.

Okay. Per coverage line.

So.

Oh my gosh. With that being said, they're providing their answers to that question. Right. So yes, they're getting it wrong. They're getting it wrong. Right. So they're confident but not competent. Correct. So that is all being tracked within the system. So the system itself, which we're big believers in processes and systems, is providing the data that's necessary to the leadership so that they can make sure that they have confident, competent people on the front lines providing coverage advice. Go ahead with what you're going to say.

Yeah, 100%. And we've tried to explain when we work with agency owners, the idea isn't perfection here. And the idea is they're going to get things wrong. And by the way, we're going to reinforce it until they are competent. They will not graduate on until they're not. So if they keep pressing play every single day, they will eventually get there. It's just a matter of when.

And some learn faster than others. Right?

Yeah. And we're incentivizing it. So we're, we're, we said, well, we could have the agencies give away prizes, but now we're giving away for prizes for usage. So what we're trying to do is say, hey, if you're going in every day, you're worthy of winning a prize. And so I mean, we're giving away air pods, iPhones, all these different things. And we're doing it so that there's a reward for someone for just participating because what we want them to get away from is, I'm scared my manager is going to look at me and I gotta a poor mark on this or review. No, this, this industry, there's so much to learn. It takes so much time. It's years and years and years. We want you to just be engaged in that process. So there's a reward basis and also the backstop for the agency. Because we had so many agency owners who said, justin, we don't know when to intervene because your regular coursework, you don't have a flag in the system. It just shows it's wrong. And let's say they got an 80%. Well, candidly, 20% wrong can be a very big E and O issue.

Now that means that second. I agree. Yeah, yeah.

And so for us, it's like we want to be able to give granular feedback and resources to bear so that agency principals, trainers, etc. Can help and empower their team members.

Yeah, 100% agree with you. And you know, back to, hey, I'm worried about getting it wrong. You know, I might get reprimanded, whatever. I love the reward for usage philosophy, but really it's all about culture. And you come into an agency business culture and you say, hey, we want to help you grow, we want to help you get better, we want to help you stay on your game. We're going to do it using technology to make your lives easier and so you can be focused on the things that are most important, which you and I both know and have experience with. Its deep, significant, meaningful relationships with people. So we're using this technology, your technology platform. Thank you for bringing it to agents everywhere to support. And our goal in the evolving world is not to view it as somebody who might replace me, but embrace it as somebody to support you and help you get better. Right. So fantastic stuff and I love you. I didn't know it was that the Ebb and Haas learning curve.

Forgetting curve.

Forgetting curve. Okay, forgetting curve. But you know, I've seen that in various trainings that I've been involved in. And they talk about the fact that like if you go to a one day seminar or something like that, within a certain amount of time, I can't remember seven days or 30 days, but you're going to forget 87% of everything you just learned.

Yep.

And so that's why constant reinforcement. I want to jump back to something you said a couple minutes ago. Great stuff, by the way. Ask Ellie job postings is where I wanted to land back on. So it is my absolute observation and is also my belief that one observation. We must always be recruiting in today's industry, business, industry, period, including the insurance agency business. One, two as an industry. And it's, it's a big grassroots movement. We've got to get younger somehow. Because I, I've read the Reagan Best practice Consulting current report that's out for 2025. The average age of leadership is still 57. Roughly 56. 57. And these people with all this historical knowledge, I mean, they're gonna go find something else to do sometime in the future. And so I know that what you're doing will help people who Insurance. I mean, I had that when I was like, you know, 22 or 23. Me and agent, are you freaking crazy? But your total CSR system can help these people learn how to do what they need to do to enter the industry. Is that correct?

Yeah. The idea in our head was always a trade school for insurance. I'm so, I went through, I went to University of Southern California, went through their entrepreneurship program. And the, the greatest class I ever took, Paul Orfala founder Kinkos was teaching. And wow. He, he says to me, I'm asking a question because, you know, you hear people, oh, grades this. And he says, yeah, it's the D's get degrees line. And he, he said, repeat that for me.

The D's, what it was.

D's get degrees. Right. And it was like the A students work for the B students, the B students maybe vice presidents. The C students own the companies, and the D students are the ones who are getting buildings named after themselves. And his whole point was that in college, right. There's more to learn than just the book stuff. And it's about what you go, go and apply and, and I think we've done a disservice by telling everybody they should go to college. And, and then especially if they've got to have a ton of debt on them. And then if you ask any agency owner if I'm looking for a producer, if the guy can hunt, the gal can hunt. Can she? Is she intelligent? Great. I don't need the degree nor the debt. Same thing with the servicing side. All that means is, oh, you went to a private university, you have $200,000 in debt, you are going to jump to the next opportunity as quickly as possible because you've got to service that debt that you can't discharge from our federal government. And so it's, it's a negative system. And so for us, and I'm hearing it more and more as I talk. I've talked at a few college campuses, and I have a great relationship with Baylor and a number of their sales professionals have ended up into the insurance industry and taking some of our stuff. But, yeah, it's something where we could take anybody that's 18 years old, go get your license test done. You go through this. And organizations, my push always to our customers is, why don't you use this for internships? Go get the person licensed for 300 bucks and then have them go through our coursework. Then they can start doing real stuff for you, see if they like it. And now you've got them trained while they're doing the internship that you're going to have them do and deploy them. And they may just stick around because guess what? This job market's getting tougher.

Yeah. We have a stable industry that if you like to be challenged and you like to win and you like to help people, I mean, the sky's the limit.

Yep.

I mean, I, I made a choice not to go to college. But here I am today. You know, generationally, we don't have anything to worry about.

Yeah.

Because we, we know how to work hard and we're able to follow the plan. I love, love, love that thought process. About anybody else out there, I hope you pick the story about Baylor that Justin just shared. You know, Baylor's putting out people into the industry in sales because they have a sales sector I'm going to suggest at the university. And we just need to lead them. You know, we can teach them the relationship and everything else, but, you know, that's what total CSR does. They teach them, you know, the nuts and bolts of most everything they'll need to get into this, the industry and learn how to become successful in serving the consumer public in the industry. Fantastic stuff. Ds get the greens. I love that. That's fantastic. By the way, have you heard of College of the Ozarks in Missouri? I have, yeah. So anyway, when you talked about Baylor and usc, I was thinking about that. I've been fortunate enough to have gone there and some friends of ours said we need to go to breakfast over at College of the Ozarks. The thing with College of the Ozarks, it's only by application. Right. Y and you, they don't want like, you know, people that are from, forgive me, wealthy families and stuff. They want kind of the middle class because their goal is to graduate people debt free.

Yep.

And so they bring you in and you go to college and get your education. But you're required to work.

Okay.

And hard work you is what the stanchions in the parking lot say. So anybody that wants to work hard and really make something for themselves, this is the industry and you guys are supporting it. Thank you. That's fabulous. So if I were, if I have an independent insurance agency and I'm out there recruiting. Because you should always be recruiting. You provide a link as a total CSR user, like on our career page when we're recruiting people and they can just click on it and go through.

You know, so basically, so we're adding our integrations as well. So, you know, so whether it be. Indeed. And every other HR group out there being able to post directly from our site to there. But also they'll, you know, if you put this person's information in that applies for the job, you can give the link. If they click on the link, they'll automatically get the assessments you want them to take. And so it depends on the job market, how you want it to work. There's a Lot of flexibility within our system. We have a whole applicant tracking system built in. So there's a bunch of different bells and whistles in there.

Fabulous. So, yeah, pre qualifying people, I mean there's a lot of people out there that might be looking, but we have a very specific system in place that we recommend in pre qualifying people. So I will suggest just get ahold of Total csr, talk to Ashton Danger Bulk and she'll walk you through the demo and learn all about Total csr. But then she can show you how that works for your business. So fabulous stuff. You know, you have an A chatbot now. Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah. So Ellie, long story short, my dad's a huge fan of elephants and elephants seem to never forget. So we named it Ellie. We're real. You know, we named our agency after our last name, Ellie. The. Oh, we're not that creative in certain ways, so that's what we went with. But the whole idea was we can train LLMs and, and I go miles down in the data science behind it. But the bottom line is there's a way to answer coverage questions thoughtfully and specific to the circumstances of our insurance. Now the. What I don't want to mislead people is I can't read what the policy that you have in your system is. So we've had somebody search in there and ask Ellie a question, say, is my client covered for this? And we're like, you didn't give us the policy to review. Yeah, but if you said, I've got a painter and that painter has been a client for years and they are, they have a per occurrence deductible. On our CGL policy. A competitor is 10 grand less but has a per claim deductible and they're a commercial painter that does car dealerships. Do I have a problem here? And the answer is, yeah, we've got an overspray issue and, and we will go and Ellie will explain it in that level of nuance. It's accuracy levels to the extent I'm comfortable saying is about 92%. The other 8% is a clear hallucination if you ever see it. So it's, it's, you know, the nuances. If you're just going to copy and paste and not read it first, that's probably a problem. But we're constantly trying to rework that model and ultimately we see Ellie evolving into a tutor of sorts with our coursework again to make a much more interactive experience. We're a couple years out from where we want to take it, but that's the next leg of that journey.

Well, Ellie's building our own LLM and everything else behind that to learn how to do that better. That's great stuff. So you're evolving, you're continuing to change, you're continuing to update. As we enter into the era of AI technology, automation, higher level if you will, your system will work for any agency, virtually remote hybrid, you have all that flexibility built in. How fast can somebody get started? Let's say somebody is watching or listening to this podcast and they say I want to know more. How quickly realistically can they get started?

So if they said I want to book a demo, it's just we've gotten a little bit busier on demo booking, so it's just a matter of about that. But let's say they say from the time they say yes, I want to go, it's live within 20 minutes. It's very. Yeah. Cool.

Through instant gratification.

Well the, what I never liked about our industry is you'd sign up for something and then it's like days and we said no, we can, we can have onboarding call later but if you need a learner in today, let's go do that and get that that squared away.

I agree. Money and success. Love speed and money and success. Number sleep. So absolutely great stuff, Justin. Thank you for sharing everything that we have time for today in Total csr. And again, if you want to book a demo, just reach out to Total csr. There is one other thing and we'll give you the information about. Well, let's just do it twice. How should if they want to book a demo and find out more about Total CSR?

How can people find you totalcsr.com and right on the site, book a demo. We get tons of time slots that you choose the time zone and they're one on one demos so you don't have to worry about telling your secrets of how you may not be doing certain things correctly. We won't tell anybody and it'll just be in the comfort in that zoom room. Yeah.

100% confidential information, private. So great stuff. Totalcsr.com and there's an area right there on the site to book a demo. But before we wrap it up today, I want to share something that is something else that I, I love, love, love about Justin and Jordan Goodman. And correct me if I'm wrong. Well, I'm going to let you tell the story. Project 55. Whose baby is that? How'd that get started?

So that's my baby. But I'm fortunate to have a brother who goes, you know, what do you need? And steps into support.

I love Project 55. And if you can let anybody out there that's watching or listening know, because, I mean, what you're going to talk about with Project 55 is real in the industry today. Go ahead, Justin.

Yes. So Project 55 is a 501C3 nonprofit. Don't worry. We're not looking for anybody's money. We focus on mental health care for the insurance industry. And so whether you're a person struggling yourself or if you're a person who wants to get training on how to intercept and intervene when somebody is struggling, we have built a robust training that's free to anyone in the public, whether you're in the insurance industry or not. And the whole idea is to make sure we can buy time for the experts to get involved. Because right now, if you're struggling with a mental health issue, you. If you're wanting to use insurance, you're waiting four, six, eight weeks sometime to get into a therapist. And then they basically don't want to take insurance half the time. And so you're in a struggle. You have no one to turn to. Our idea behind this is if we can equip enough people in the insurance workforce to be there as listeners and also to be able to provide practical resources, we can stem that time period to help someone out, facilitate, redirect, and give them options at a time when they're feeling hopeless or discouraged. And it really came about from. I've had mental health struggles from a young age, but the whole idea came because in college, I. I had a back issue then, painkiller addiction. And I decided that I was done trying in life and was gonna take my own life. And a fraternity brother stepped in at the right time, saved my life. And he was also equipped because his brother had gone through a narcotics issue and he staged intervention. That training that he had to step into me and get me to go and get clean and talk to my folks and go through that process was why I'm here today. And ultimately, as I worked on my mental health over the years and started speaking at conferences about mental health, people would come up to me two buckets. The one who's really struggling. I need resources and help. Where do I go? And I can't tell my employer. And then the other side was, I don't know what to say to this person. I'm terribly afraid. And they said, well, what you're in the education Space, why don't you build this and you know, build this training? I said, well, I'm not qualified, but I did know people who were. So I stopped making excuses, especially after my wife told me to stop making excuses and just go do it. And we launched. And so it's a 10 hour required course track with six optional hours and a complete resource library that goes with both of those. And it's all completely free. It's to every agency owner out there. You could offer this training free to all of your customers to give to their employees, their friends. We have funded it in such a way that no one will ever have to spend a dollar for the training. And I know you're gonna ask this question next. If you want more information, you can go to project55.org and it's all there. Did I miss anything, Mike?

No, no, I, I can't love Project 55 enough. Just knowing, look, you know, 40 years in the industry with a license, being in the trenches, there were a lot of dark nights and a lot of dark weekend days and other times when, you know, s just hits the fan, you know, and you don't know where to turn, you don't know who to look to. You don't want to admit that, you know, you're burnt, you're mentally exhausted and emotionally drained and all that. And you know, it's just something in the human psyche. We would all want to admit a flaw, right? But you know, having some place to turn and knowing this resource is available, I signed up as soon as I found out about it. But there's not that many people involved. So my great encouragement, please spread the word. Project55.org Did I get that right? Yes, sir. Project55.org you know, share it with your teammates, your leadership teams. Let them know it's available. It's intended to be a resource. So I mean, two phenomenal resources just became available to you thanks to Justin's generosity and showing up today and Jordan, his brother teammate at Total cs, you know, recruiting and training and getting somebody, you know off on the right foot in the industry, which we all need. And then, hey, when they're in a tough spot. Project55. So totalcsr.com just go there for the demo of Total CSR. Project55.org go there if you need it or you know, somebody who does. And I actually, listening to you, I can think of two or three people. Well, I'm going to share that with Edit today's session.

Awesome. Thank you, Justin.

Thank you, thank you for being here. And thank you for your support of our mission at upp impacting people's lives personally and professionally.

So absolutely. Thanks for having me.

You're welcome. Keep up the great work. A phenomenal stuff. Phenomenal stuff. And by the way, if this is your first time on the podcast, welcome. My name is Mike Stromso. I'm widely recognized as a leading author, speaker and coach for the independent insurance agency. I'm proudly one of you an independent insurance agent. You can find more about what we do@upplife.com upplife.com if you're interested in attending one of our virtual or live events, our next upcoming event is uppmasterclass.com uppmasterclass.com just go there. It'll have a link to our next masterclass. Jump on there. Everything that we do is designed to share with you everything that we've learned. Our best money making secrets to grow your agency, create wealth and have more freedom based on our 35 plus years of running our own independent insurance agency businesses. And if you haven't done this yet, please go to unstoppableprofitpodcast.com, go up to the top, click subscribe so you don't miss one valuable episode. And lastly, if you got great value out of this podcast, whether it be for total CSR project 55 or both, please share this link with somebody else that you know, that you care about so that they can also get the great value. That's why we're here and getting to know Justin and Jordan. That's why they're here as well. To help you, to help you become better, to make your life a little bit easier. Justin, thanks again for everything you do.

Thank you.

All right everybody, I will see you on the next episode. Until then, here's my latest. Have you ever walked up to somebody in your agency and they say, you say, how's it going? They say, oh, I'm so busy. Here's your response. Justin, I'm glad to hear you're busy. Tell me about your results. All right guys, we'll see you on the next episode. Take care.

Do you love the podcast but don't know where or how to get started? Visit www.ucplive. that's u p p l I f e dot com to learn more about our coaching and mastermind programs and how you can join our community of growth oriented agency owners today.