Mastering the Ego to Be a Better Leader

Okay. Well, I am so excited today to welcome a special guest to this episode. Number 33. We are talking about the ego and leadership. And if you've read any kind of, like, personal development book that's about mastering your own mind, you're definitely familiar with this term. But today's special guest is somebody who thrived in a long career in the corporate world and eventually became sick of seeing talented people get promoted but not actually hit their potential. And so she stepped away from corporate world, and she started coaching people on how to basically tune their mindset so that they can become the leaders that they were meant to be. You're listening to the Universe has yous Business. It's the podcast for rising entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, and change makers who are here to achieve more while letting the universe do the heavy lifting. And I am your host, Andrew Donovan. Please give a very warm welcome to our special guest today, Christy Garcia.

Hey, Andrew. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. So glad to have you here. I'm happy that your team reached out to my team, because I love everything that I've read that you do is stuff that I am, like, in 100% supportive.

Absolutely. I know when I listen to your podcast, it definitely love what you're up to. You know, that Law of Attraction is a real thing, and so getting that positive mindset, it's in place is huge. And just that consciousness.

Well, and it doesn't really matter what we're talking about, but I know your specialty is leadership, and I just want to make sure that everybody listening to this episode is clear. It doesn't matter if you're a coach or if you're building a brick and mortar business or if you're, like, the entrepreneur of your own family. Like, everything is leadership, right?

Everything's leadership. And that really is what this work is about. You know, I focus on upcoming and current leaders within organizations or people, individuals that are looking to grow within their organization. So I've always kind of focused on the. The business platform, but absolutely. You know, one of the side effects of this ego management training is definitely maximizing your success at home as well. Improving your family life, improving your personal life just as much as your business.

Oh, yeah. I remember when I was in high school, I read the book Leadership and Self Deception Getting out of the Box by the Arbinger Institute, and I remember how that changed my relationship with my parents because. Because the ability to. To satiate that ego part of my brain that wanted to act up in ways that weren't conducive to healthy connection. It was like, it was mind blowing to me how it affected my leadership roles at school, but also like how I related to my family members.

Absolutely. You know, and I think that's the best part. The ego really is just that unconscious brain. And so when we start to learn our unconscious behaviors, we can then learn why we're doing what we do. Or, you know, most of the time at home, you show up and you're tired, you've had a long day and so has your spouse, most likely. Or if you have roommates, you know, and you show up and everybody's tired, so they usually get our worst self. We're grumpy, we're a little more short, we're tired. And I think what happens, we don't realize the edginess we put off with that. And so being able to be aware of what our energy is, what our moods are, and then choosing our intentional thoughts, actions, behaviors so that we can create connection and, you know, make sure we're putting just as much positive energy into our family as we are in our businesses. And that's one of the things I love the most about being able to bring this personal development work not just into the workplace, but into our personal lives as well. We get to show up as our best self everywhere.

Now, the academy that you run is called Mindful Choice. And it seems like the base premise is starting with an understanding of what the ego is. Am I right on that?

Yes. So it's, it's a 20 week course that focuses on a deep, deep, deep dive into self awareness. I do use the leadership circle assessment tool. If any of your coaches are trained on that and they're interested in adding the academy to their business, please call me. I'd love to tell you more, but the leadership circle is a tool that helps identify and show a visual of self awareness. So it's, you know, your perception of how you think you're showing up versus how the world sees you showing up. So that's kind of step one. Once they know where they're at now, they start to see that, that awareness in real time. And so the ownership component comes in and that's when you can start to see the ego and how it actually shows up in your day to day. You know, within two to three weeks, people are really noticing. Wow, I didn't have any idea how unconscious I really was. You know, the stat that 95% of the time we're unconsciously going through the motions of our day, that's real. Most of us are doing that, but most of us think we're conscious. And so when you ask them, well, how, how intentional were you when you made that decision? It's like, oh, I was really conscious, I was really aware. And they probably were to a sense. But when you start asking about their beliefs, their mindsets, you know, what was the motivator behind that decision? You get deer in a headslight. It's like, well, it just made sense. Well, why did it make sense? You know, and you start asking those deeper questions and you realize that it really wasn't a conscious action. It was just a reaction and based on whatever the circumstance or the situation was. And that's really the power of this work is learning. When you're unintentionally just reacting, good or bad, it could be a strength. So it doesn't have to be a bad reaction, but if you're not aware of it, then you're not intentional with it. And so it's just shifting the mindset. It's not necessarily changing anything. It's just empowering you as an individual to say, hey, I do want to change that. Now that I know and I am aware, I, I would like to change that and maximize my impact instead of just, you know, shooting from the hip and hoping for the best, which is what a lot of us do.

So those unconscious moments, that's when we're defaulting into ego mode, right?

Yes, exactly.

I think that most of the people listening have, are familiar with the term ego, but, but you seem to have a unique framework. Can you explain? I mean, can you first, can you share what most people think the ego is and then what your three egos are?

So a lot of people think of the egos as just, you know, the loud, arrogant guy, or when we're being a jerk or someone who's kind of narcissistic. And it's really not that I actually think, you know, narcissism has a strength as well. Every strength has a weakness. And so how I use the egos going into, there's three of them. The complier, the protector and the controller. And all three of them have different motivators, you know. You know, your complier is the warm, caring, people oriented, people first individual. It's something we all need. But when we are overly caring over, you know, empathetic, when we are too thoughtful of others, we start to sacrifice our own wants and needs. We start to go along to get along. We tell people what they want to hear instead of the truth. We have a tough time making decisions or holding people accountable. And so as a leader, obviously that is a downfall. Or even in our personal relationships. And then you've got the protector. The protector is high integrity. It's our, it's our values and our belief systems and the things that really keep us honest and truthful. It's motivated by fairness and doing what's right for the greater good. It's kind of our moral compass. Unfortunately, when we overuse the protector, it starts to look more stubborn and it could be either arrogant and in a loud, arrogant way, or it could be quiet and passive and still come across as a better than. It could look as if you're confrontational. You know, I've got to be right. And so I get attached to the outcome, I get attached to my way because that's where my value and worth is. And so it can be very difficult in a situation where you're trying to collaborate, to work with a protector who's not collaborating. Then you've got the controllers who they need to win and be the best. They're motivated by getting to the finish line first and, and showing that they are the superstar. And so lots of perfectionists driving here. They've got a lot of passion though. They got a lot of drive. This is where inspiration comes from, unfortunately. What happens, they're tasked first and so the people get forgotten. They don't always collaborate, they don't always make sure that people are at the end of the winning line with them. A lot of times they're the freight trains. Either get on, get off, I'm moving fast. And so we miss out on a lot of people on the journey with us because again, we're just so task oriented.

That third one is interesting to me because that's the closest to what I would expect the standard definition of the ego to be. But the first two, they, it seems like it would be easy to get caught in those because it seems like you're the good guy. Like it seems like it's about other people. Am I right?

And in the world we live right now, we're hearing a lot about the narcissist. And so, you know, it becomes the task oriented person who has, who's unemotionally available. That typically is the narcissist definition. When you start thinking about the deeper right, not just the high level. Yeah, they're a jerk. And there is, there's a clinical diagnosis for narcissism, but I think how the world's using it today is a little more flexible and they're starting to call a lot more people narcissists. Like, if you don't like the leaderstark, they're a narcissist. It's like, that's not really. I mean, because at the end of the day, narcissism can also just be like, arrogance is a strength. Right. At 33%, if we're using it in a balanced place, it's actually just confidence. It's authentic, genuine confidence when you overuse it. Now, it can be cocky and narcissistic and arrogant and things that aren't good. But again, it's not necessarily always a bad thing. And I think a lot of times we forget that our strengths are just as when we overuse our strength, they do turn into these weaknesses that then start to hold us back just as much as over. Caring means that you can be too selfless, that you're actually becoming a victim in your own circumstance. Right. And so it is finding the balance of all of it.

And, and, and also the defender, the. Or the protector. You said that. I mean, that also is about other people. And you could you be too caring and slip into that role as well?

Yes. Protectors typically are black and white. So it's either I love or I hate. I am very extreme. And so they have to almost find the gray in order to find the balance.

So we'll give us some, give us some tips about how we can identify when we're stuck in one of these areas.

You know, the biggest question or the biggest way to identify is, you know, what, what is that natural tendency of yours? Are you typically the one that's people first? You know, you walk in the room and you are kind of the warm, caring, you take care of people. You tend to go more passive and easygoing, and you kind of don't like to rock the boat. You don't like confrontation. Most likely you're on that complier side of the chart. If you are more of the finish line, you like to compete, you like to win. You're the person that, you know, even in a family card game, you get upset if you don't win. Or you're like, hi, yeah, I kicked your butt. Yeah, you know, that's usually the controller because we're kind of. We are our biggest cheerleaders. And then you've got your, your protector, who, depending on which one they're dominant with, if they tend to lean more. So we had one to two dominant egos, typically. And if you tend to be more on the controller side, you're probably going to be more of that louder, arrogant protector, which Is more, you know, my way or the highway. This is right. I'm really committed to my, to the right or wrong. But you could also be the one that you know, the protector is lots of boundaries, lots of distance. And so you compartmentalize your life. This group knows this about me. This group knows this about me. This group knows this about me. No one really knows everything about me. And you keep every everything's on your terms. And so a lot of times the protector is that person where you can know them for 20 years. You're like, I know them, but I don't really know them. And you know, just because they select what, what people get to know about them. And so, you know, I think that's the first is identify which one you relate to. Once you know which one you relate to, then in real time, when you get irritated, when you get your ego gets poked, ask yourself, what's the motivator behind this? Am I trying to get someone to like me? Am I trying to get, am I trying to prove that I am right to show that I have worth and value? Or am I just trying to win? And they're telling me my idea is not the best? And so once you kind of know what the motivator is or what the end result is that you're trying to accomplish, most likely it's going to push you either into the victim or the martyr. And you know, the ego has to have a victim and a martyr. And so depending on which role you take on, the other person is probably taking on one too. Because once one ego shows up, the other ones do too. So guarantee that there is another ego in the room. So once you kind of recognize yours, then you can recognize the other person's. Start asking yourself, you know, are they trying to be liked? Are they trying to prove their worth and value? Where are we doing this? Because most likely you're saying the same things just from a different perspective.

Sure. So. So typically when I hear about confrontation in a leadership scenario, you've got the leader and the, the person maybe who's the subordinate or the employee or you know, the person who's unhappy with the leadership. They see the leader as the perpetrator, you might say. But if someone is feeling themselves being victim to a leader, then they're just as much in their ego as well, right?

Yeah. So, you know, like an example of a complier in a works environment, I hear all the time is either no one listens to me or I'll say the same thing. But you know, the person at the end of the table will get the attention because they say it louder. So that's a very complier thing to say. Or you know, we, we'd love to throw around the, well, I'm a woman so they don't listen to me. Most likely you're just using your complier ego and you're not, you know, confident in your own voice. And so part of it is like figure out what, where are you going to the victim to blame someone else of why you're not being heard or why you're not being noticed. Like that's a big question to me because there are just as many men compliers as there are women compliers. The other thing that, you know, most compliers fall victim to is well, I just wanted to, or my colleague got promoted and so they're irritated because you know, they're not as good as them or whatever and they'll go to that place of they didn't even look at me. I, they don't appreciate me, I'm going to leave. And it's like, well, did you ever ask for the promotion? Did you ever let them know you're interested? Well, no, but they should just know. And so again, not asking the world for what you want and just kind of waiting for it to be handed to you, making assumptions because you don't want to put yourself out there. That tends to be more of that complier protector mindset. And so, you know, taking that risk. On the controller side, it could be the opposite where it's, you're sitting in the boardroom and no one's got good enough ideas and so you're, you're over talking everybody, you already assume the right answer or and then you've got the best answer so someone throws out, it's like, no, no, no, we're going to do it this way and this is why and let's just do it, do it. You take this role, you take this or you just kind of start dictating and it sounds good. So most people will buy into it. But there's also an energy thing where you just kind of force people to comply. So a lot of times leaders will force people to comply. It doesn't always, you know, I just wrote an article actually that got posted today called you know, following the leader is not always a strength or something like that. But basically what it was, what's about is that ego's model. It's great to follow the leader. It's great to want your team to follow you. But if you're just dictating and telling people what to do and expecting them to follow, you're actually killing everybody else's ability to have better ideas, to be innovative, to be creative, to really show up and maximize the reason you hired them to begin with. Right. Like, they bring skills to the table. So if you're just wanting them to do what you say, you're killing their ability to lead as well.

Wow. So interesting. I mean, to me, it feels like there's all. There's always a new framework to study that helps us understand our minds work. But. But I've never seen the ego broken down into, like, categories like this. So did you ever. Did you ever read Christy the book A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle?

Yes. It's great. I love his work. His work is just. The power of now is life changing.

Well, so he has, I mean, a completely different way to define the ego, but the one, like, one of the things that stuck up most profoundly to me when I read his books was when he said, if you strip away everything you think you are, in other words, the ego, what's left? And what's left is who you really are. So if. If we understand, if we can become aware of when we're stuck in one of these ego roles.

Yeah.

Then, like, what, What. What's the healthy version? What's the healthy alternative?

Yeah. You know, it's the balance of all three. We need all three. Our egos are not bad. You know, one. The very first thing I make sure all my clients know, the ego is not bad. If you're making it bad, then you're not owning your dark side. We all have a dark side. And the reality is, is when we get frustrated, disappointed, hurt, or take things personal, it's usually because someone points out one of our dark sides and we haven't accepted it or owned it. And so it's that ego saying, oh, I told you. Oh, I told you, you shouldn't have done that. And so we beat ourselves up instead of. Or we get defensive and justify why we were a jerk because someone else was a jerk. Right. And so depending on which ego you are. But the reality is we need all three. And so when we can use all three in a balance, you know, in that 33 to 45% range, something in that area, now we can say, okay, I'm a caring, thoughtful, in, you know, empathetic leader. I am. I care about the. The logic, the facts, the fairness. We're going to take care of everybody, not just me or a Small group. And then you've got the controller who gets the results, who gets to the finish line, makes the hard decisions and holds people accountable. And so there's a well rounded person. And that, that goes for every again, whether you're talking business or whether you're talking being a parent or a spouse, being able to be genuine to all of that makes you just a we player. It takes you from the I mindset to the we mindset and, and you start caring about the greater good. You know, when we overuse our egos and we start to cross over that 33, 40% now we start to get into I have to be taken care of, I have to be right, I have to. And it's, it's I driven and at one point in our life that was fine. But once you become a team player, you have a partner, you have children, you have a business to run, you can't be an iplayer because if you're at the finish line by yourself, you lose. And so making sure everybody's at the finish line with you.

So what you're saying is that the goal is to not say, okay, I'm going to remove the complier because that's who I historically show up as you're saying if I'm 60% complier, I feel imbalanced because I'm missing some protector or and even saying I'm missing some controller sounds really off to me.

To say that I'm right because you're not enjoying it. Yes. Like embrace the complier, embrace the protector, embrace the controller because it's all the strengths. It's all of it. You know, when you're using them, you're your best self and you feel it. That's, that's that stripping it away. When you strip it away, what's left? It is an honest person. It's someone who wants to have a team to collaborate and a family to love and people at the finish line with you. It is the person that wants to do what's fair and right and not just, you know, be self centered and do things that take care of me. It's the person that wants to care about people and take care of people and again, make sure everybody's on the same page and have boundaries. You know, part of it is knowing how to have boundaries for ourselves. Knowing when to say no, knowing when to hold our integrity and speak our truth, knowing when to just admit when we're wrong and say I'm sorry. Those are things that the ego controls all those things and when we're not in our best self, we're not able to do any of that.

I, I'm thinking about when it's like New Year's resolution time and people are, are deciding who they want to be. This is specifically something that entrepreneurs do. Right. We and leaders and we, we start the new year off saying I want to be a more well rounded person. Or I, I could look back at the previous year and realize that I spent a lot of time in fear. So I was trying to protect myself from potential challenges or risky situations. And, and that like idea of being a well rounded person is what just keeps popping into my head as I hear you talk about embracing these different sides. How is this different, Christie, than say other like a Myers Briggs test or something where you get diagnosed as just a diagnosis but you get identified as just having a more dominant, certain type of personality because you're talking about having this well rounded concept.

Yeah. You know the thing with a personality test, I think Myers Briggs is great. It's surface level self awareness. Um, the problem with personality tests is our personality changes. It changes with certain situations or certain moods, certain people. And so, you know, the, the reality is our egos are there. Like it or not, they're there. They've been designed since you were probably too. And they have shown up in your life for a reason. And so the personalities are just personalities within these, you know, act actual egos. But the reality of the ego itself is if you're not owning that bigger part of you, then you're putting yourself in the box. Which is why a lot of people are like. And I'm going to do some generalization. So this is not always true, but typically a complier is going to love a Myers Briggs because it tells me who they are. And this is why, this is why you do what you do. And this is, you know, how you fix it. And everybody's going to be able to identify. So they're going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me more protectors hate it. It's like, don't put me in a box. I am not that. I never fall that way. That doesn't work for me. And then controllers, they can kind of fall like, ah, yeah, maybe they'll own the good stuff. Definitely not the bad stuff. And then it becomes everyone else's fault. Why? Like yes, this is why everybody sucks and I'm awesome. And so you know, it, it is one of those things like you can, it can validate again. It's good surface level stuff. I I think it's great when a team does it where the leadership circle is more advanced. It was designed at the executive MBA program of Notre Dame. This is a third party tool. So the leadership circle is its own company. They have a leadership circle profile. That's what I use. And this was designed through the executive MBA program program at Notre Dame. But what they did is they took over 650 different assessment tools. So EQ tests or the emotional intelligence, the IQ, the competencies, you've got your personalities built into there. So so many different. And what they did was they just decided, you know, how do we make this a very well rounded tool? Most tools tell you what you do. Most tools will tell you what you're good at. Most tools may even tell you what you're bad at. What I love about this tool and the reason I use it is for a couple different reasons. One, there's no truth to it. It's all perception that I love the most because I'm a big believer. Everybody can change. It's a choice to change. And so a lot of those personality tests, people get it in the head, well, this is just how I am. People just have to deal with it. That's not true. That's a cop out. You can change if you want to change. And so this gives people permission to see how they're showing up. What's the perception of how you think you're showing up, what's the perception of the world around you and how they see you showing up. And then where are the self awareness gaps? So it actually shows you the gaps of you think you're doing a really good job here, you're not owning your greatness there. And now you can start to close those gaps. And that's what I love the most. Everything on the chart can be changed if you choose. So that was one of the reasons. The other thing that I love about it is again, a lot of those tools just tell you what you do. This tells you not just what you do, it tells you why you do it and how to change it. And that I think is one of the most magical, most powerful things that people can learn. Because again, when you're talking about resolutions, you can set resolutions all day. But if you don't know what the motivator is of why you're not actually changing or why you don't consistently go to the gym, or why you get too busy to justify, you know, being home for dinner with your family, whatever it is, because you don't know why you do it, you can't change something if you don't know the deeper seated root of what's. What's the belief system?

Sure.

Well, if I don't work late or hours, I'm going to miss this project and then my team will not be happy in the morning. And then I got it. So that's the problem you got to fix. It's not showing up for dinner. It's figuring out why you don't show up for dinner. And then you start to manage that ego. And now you'll show up for dinner consistently because it's a new pattern. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So I like that that a lot of tools are about diagnosing how you are versus getting beyond the surface level of awareness, as you put it. So potentially we've opened up a can of worms here for a lot of folks because I think most of us are, are pretty aware of where we're not showing up the way that we'd like to.

Yeah.

Or where we are showing up in ways that we wish we weren't showing up that way.

Right, Absolutely.

So surface level awareness, you know, that's probably surface. Surface, surface. Right. But it sounds like this is an opportunity for a lot of us to do a little bit of a deeper dive. And so you've got some, you've got some ways that we can plug into you. Your social handle is at Mindful Choice, right?

Yes, actually. So it's mindfulchoice, underscore Instagram and then on the LinkedIn it is. You go to Christy Garcia or I think my marketing team just changed. I think it's like marketing Mindful Choice Leadership Academy. So look up Christy Garcia. It'll probably be much easier.

Christy is H R I S T I E Garcia. We'll put it in the show notes. We'll also put links to your Facebook and your Insta your for your social handles. But what, but what I hope our listeners take away from this though, is that you're not ever stuck the way you are. And that's something that, I mean, how many, I can't tell you how many times I've gotten into a coaching session with an entrepreneur who Sundays, it's been six years since I've been trying to accomplish this thing and I just can't get there. And then I say, well, like, well, what's in your way? And then they tell me the list of all the stuff they're not doing and the list of stuff that they are doing, but it's not working for some reason. And at the, at first Glance, I can always spot areas where their mindset is just like, it's just wonky. I mean, it's always. There's like, if you didn't have a wonky mindset, you'd have everything you ever wanted.

Right, Right. Absolutely perfect.

And. And so. So I love this idea that there are systems and tools in place where you can, with a structured format, diagnose what might not be serving you and then put in a game plan to start shifting things. So.

Absolutely.

So I love this. Thank you for introducing this and for giving us something that's very.

You're so welcome. Absolutely. And, you know, on that note, for entrepreneurs, I think as a business owner, an entrepreneur myself, just as you are, those fears are real. And the emotion that comes with it, the blocks that come with it, whether it's, you know, maybe you've built a great company, maybe you're just getting ready to start, maybe you haven't started and you have the dream, like, the fears are real, and if you don't honor them, if you don't acknowledge them, if you don't recognize where they're coming from, they're going to always be there and you'll never get to that next level. And so, you know, I think as you know, hiring a coach, getting the tools, looking into, you know, something that is ego management. I mean, it's. Ego management is a new term that I. You're starting to hear more of it. I've been using it for the last, you know, eight years. And it is one of those things where when you start to learn the whys, why, why you're stuck, why you do what you do, why aren't you, you know, moving forward instead of just the same questions of what do I need to do? It's not about what you're doing. Like you said, a lot of people are doing the right things. It's the why. Why am I still stuck? Why am I not, you know, what is the underlying belief system? So it's great.

So empowering. Ego management. All for it, right? Yes. Well, Christy Garcia, everybody, thank you so much for being on the show here and for our listeners, go visit the show notes, connect with Christy, and we'll hope to have you back.

Awesome. Anytime. This was great. Thanks for having me, Andrew.

Thank you.