Before You Build a Peptide Stack, Watch This | Nathalie Niddam

What's the worst advice that you've heard circulating in peptide communities right now?

When somebody has a site reaction to a peptide and people are like, yeah, I'm just gonna keep trying it until my body stops reacting. Like, really? You wanna take on your immune system like that? I think that's a bad idea, personally. Maybe think about, can you figure out why? Is it your sourcing is off? Is it that you've got some underlying issue that's causing the reaction? Or does your immune system genuinely not accept the introduction of this peptide into your body?

Natalie, my sweet new friend, welcome to Rooted in Wellness. This is long overdue.

Mona, it is such a pleasure to be here. And yes, sweet new friend. It's one of those things. You're my BFF I never knew I had.

Seriously. Yeah, this is going to be a good one. When two nutritionists get together, we'll just lay all the news out for everyone to inspire them to heal. And that's the intention of this podcast. I should have mentioned that. So, you know, you and I went to nutrition school in Toronto, and both of our health journeys in many ways have influenced what we do and how we speak to nutrition today. And for this podcast, it's really about merging ancient wisdom with modern-day medicine and the fact that we do talk about integrative healthcare all the time. However, I don't feel that we're actually practicing it. So to kick things off, I want to know, what are 2 or 3 things that help you feel more rooted in yourself every day?

Oh, that's a really good question. Um, you know, it's, it's interesting. I mean, as I mentioned to you just before we started recording, I've had, you know, a little bit of a health journey that started at beginning of this year and it has, it has changed. You know, I feel like it was, I mean, for a bunch of reasons, one of them might have been the universe giving me a sign saying, you know, all that running around you're doing, you need to stop, you need to slow down. And so it's really pushed me into a space of thinking about, so how do I wanna start my day? And how am I gonna set the tone for it? And it's so interesting you asked that today because this morning I went downstairs. So my thing is, you know, I try to stick my head out a window or something. And as you know, I live in a climate where it's some days more pleasant than others to do that at this time of year. But I will try to get outside even for a few minutes just to see the light, as it were. But my next step is I go downstairs, I've set up kind of like a, this kind of self-care center. I start with a NanoV session. I set it to 30 minutes 'cause Lord knows I could set it to 150 minutes and just sit there for 3 hours. But I'll do a NanoV session. The thing that I started to do recently was use it, because I would often use that time to check on my Instagram, check on messages. I'm like, no, actually that's not how we wanna start our day, is it now?

You got it.

Maybe what we wanna do is we wanna listen to a book. Or we want to read something that we're trying to learn about. And weirdly, somebody about a month ago pointed me towards this, a very short introduction book to Kabbalah. It's called The Power of Kabbalah. And it's not particularly religious at all, but it's really about, you know, rules of engagement for the world. And I think that most people listening to this wouldn't be shocked at what they are, but it's articulated in a certain way. It's positioned in a certain way. And when you're going through transitions in your life, it helps you to reframe things in a different way. So that's the very first thing is that. And then after that, I try to move my body, right? So again, because I'm in a healing phase, I'm not going to the gym and beating myself to a pulp just yet. I plan to do that again soon. But, but you know, I right now it's, oh, and I mean, I've got my red light around my neck so that I'm I'm putting red light on my thyroid, which interestingly enough seems to be having an interesting impact on some of my metrics. Shocking, we can talk about that. I'll step onto my Power Plate. And when I was really unwell, I would just step onto the Power Plate and just standing there was enough. Like I could literally feel my system moving. And now I'm doing a workout routine and every day I get a little bit more brave. So now kettlebells involved and, you know, and resistance bands and all kinds of things. And I find that when I step I start like that, and especially when I start with the exercise, when I add the movement into the beginning of the day like that, and I've always been a morning workout person, everything in the day gets better. I'm more likely to do— take exercise snacks while I'm working. Like, you know, not that long ago I got down on the ground and I'd have my ab— my old school ab wheel roller out, and I'm like, what a set of those. I've got a 20-pound kettlebell at my feet, I'll swing that around for a while. So it's So that's so, so the, so I find like, I find like it's priming the day. It's starting in calm with some healing modalities, with doing your ba— and it's so hard, like staying off your screens because you've got people messaging you. They've been messaging you all night from different time zones. Right. So it's, it's a very interesting exercise, but I find that when I do it, which is more often than not these days. It sets up the day completely differently than if I allow messages to drive me in a certain direction.

It's really the inspiration of asking and starting with that question, because I think that a lot of people expect us to have this, you know, set protocol that looks a certain way with a checklist that's attached to it. And more often than not, it has nothing to do with that. And I think you and I as practitioners, what we've done really well is set the stage. You've talked about a lot of modalities that you've set the stage with at your home so that they're there they're ready and available, and you know that they feel good for you. And that's really the takeaway that I want for all of our listeners is we can talk about a lot of things. You and I can recommend so many things to our clients, but you've got to figure out what works really well for you. For sure. The reframe that I want to give is that you checked off something for your physical body, your emotional body, and your spiritual body, right? Like, that's the trifecta for starting everything really well. And you're not going to believe this, but I started reading the exact same book 2 months ago.

No, are you serious?

Yeah, I just felt really called to it. And my mom was— has been going through a lot of stuff these past few years. And there's a concept in Kabbalah where we say, what a gift. Like, where's the gift in all of the things? Like you mentioned with your health, right? The body is communicating with us. And when we have that spiritual backframe, then we understand that, oh, I'm not— it doesn't have to be about suffering. It's actually a lesson that I can overcome. So, girl, we are soul sisters.

Yep, we're right in there, apparently. Yeah.

All right, so on the flip side, you're a practitioner. You and I have gone through the highs and the lows, our own healing journey. What are the things outside of the cell phone in the morning, which I'm so with you on, what derails you? What causes you to feel uprooted in your life? And do you catch yourself when you're uprooted?

Yeah, so I mean, I would say that right now the, the social media that That intrusion is one of the biggest things that can— and why? Because of what's coming through, right? So it's not all sunshine and roses and unicorns. There's a lot going on in the world right now. Our feeds are curated to speak to the issues that we're the most concerned about, and they're curated to keep us engaged. So, you know, not to blow the same horn over and over again, but I think that that is one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle that we really need to put guardrails around to maintain control over our own journey. The other piece is, and where, you know, this experience has really sent me, it sent me back to my roots as a nutritionist. Because ironically, although you'd be like, oh, well, you went through this health challenge, like, what are the supplements you used? What peptides did you use? What did you use? Well, I've been on a full supplement embargo. For 2 months. And so I had to go back to food. I had to go back to my roots and I had to sit there and really think about what are the healing foods? What are the things that I can be putting into my body that gives it the deep nutrition and gives it access to the most bioavailable nutrients that are going to help it to heal?

Beautiful.

Yeah. And so getting off the rails with nutrition is going— is I think for me, and probably for you as well, once we know this, when and if we're traveling or something happens and you go through a period where you're eating out too much, you're not cooking, you're eating the things you know aren't serving you, you can feel it right away.

Yeah. Hey, do you know the Shivananda Ashram in Val Moray in Quebec?

No. Should I?

You should, yeah. So that was the greatest part of my healing journey. We grew up going there every summer, and then after my two heart surgeries, we went there to heal. But as you said, going back to your roots to heal, there's no supplementation. We use food as medicine, herbs and teas and tinctures and stuff like that to heal the body. And gosh, I just love that we're starting this way because I think something that probably drives both of us is the excitement around this Western world and the science and the data that's emerging. But the body knows, and you're living proof of it right now for healing, right? Going back to the roots as the foundations. There's nothing sexy about talking around about the foundations of healing, but it is the most powerful tool for your body, right?

Well, and without it, the fancy stuff doesn't hold, right?

You got it.

For, for all the fancy shiny things to really take hold, you need a good terrain. You need a body that's ready to receive and and step up to the plate to a new stimulus, right? So with the exception of things like, for example, TPE, so total plasma exchange, where you're— which is a very powerful but very invasive procedure, but sometimes when you've got a toxic load that is so great that you need to remove it, physically remove it, and then reintroduce cleaner plasma into the system, that, that may be an intervention you do before you clean up the terrain or as part of cleaning up the terrain. But if you're gonna be doing stem cells and exosomes and all the fancy stuff, wouldn't it be great to introduce those compounds into a system that's, that's primed and ready to receive and respond?

Absolutely. So powerful. All right. We're gonna dive in with some rapid-fire questions. So whatever comes to mind, and then we're going to go into a deep dive afterwards. So here we go. What's the biggest mistake that you see people make when starting peptides?

Well, they don't do their homework. They hear about it from their friend. They have— their friend tells them, oh, I've been using blah, blah, blah, you've got to try it. It's the most amazing stuff. And they run out and get it from somewhere, God knows where, and then have no idea what to do next and do what their friend is doing. They don't do their homework. They don't know that it's the right thing for them.

Gosh, that temptation of the red pill is just so strong, right? People are so desperate to feel better then. All right, number 2, what's one thing that peptides can do that genuinely still surprise you even after all these years?

They can, what is so incredible about peptides is that the right peptide at the right time in the right dose can help the body to do what the body knows to do best. So to me, it's not about what the peptide is doing. It's about how the peptide starts a healing cascade in the body. And now the body just kind of takes over and does its thing.

Beautiful. What is one peptide that you think genuinely is underrated and not getting enough attention? There's so many. Mm.

Yeah. I, you know, what's, what's interesting about that is it's it's, it's case specific.

Mm-hmm. Right?

And I think that there's peptides that, I mean, it depends what, what, what you have going on. Right? So if let's say you're dealing with gut healing or gut inflammation, the first peptides people think about usually in that situation would be a BPC-157 and a lorazetide. And sometimes they don't, always get to a KPV, which is very anti-inflammatory and very powerful for gut healing, or even a GHK copper, because we think of GHK-Cu as the skin peptide, but as it turns out, it has some very powerful healing power for— power, how many times can I say power? Um, it's got great benefits for the gut as well.

Fascinating. What's the worst advice that you've heard circulating in peptide communities right now?

Do you have an hour?

I know, right? Um. Should we run all of them, one size fits all?

Well, and, or somebody has a site reaction to a peptide.

Yeah.

And people are like, yeah, I'm just gonna keep trying it until my body stops reacting. Like, really? You wanna take on your immune system like that? I think that's a bad idea, personally. Maybe, maybe think about, can you figure out why? Is it, is it your sourcing is off? Is it that you've got some underlying issue that's causing the reaction, or does your immune system genuinely not accept the introduction of this peptide into your body.

Next, this one's kind of a trick question, but I'm sure it's one that you get a lot. All right, Nad, if I, if I can stay on one peptide for the rest of my life, what should it be?

So I would say none, but I think if you, if I had to answer it, it would probably be GHK.

Fascinating. I didn't think you'd say that. I need to look into that then a little bit more.

Well, I'll tell you why. The reason is because a lot of people would say BPC. I don't think BPC, I don't think any peptide generally should be used all the time without breaks. GHK's a little bit different because if you look at its presence in our bodies, it's present in very high levels when we're young and they decline dramatically as we age. And because of its role in repair, in tissue repair, healing, and so many other things, it, it might be one that you would wanna keep on board. But again, I don't know that we have enough information to know for sure. It's a little bit like growth hormone. Right?

Yes.

Um, we need growth hormone to recover. We need growth hormone as even as an anti-aging compound. We lose it as we age. But is it appropriate in a 70-year-old or a 60-year-old body that has a lot more DNA damage to have growth hormone levels that we would have had when we were younger? No. So if your growth hormone levels are on the floor, you need to figure out ways to increase it to a healthy level, but that healthy level is not gonna look like what it did when you were younger.

Of course.

But we don't know with GHK where that threshold might be. And I think that would be a really interesting thing for study at some point.

You're using such great disclaimers naturally, which I absolutely love because peptides, look, it's one of the fastest growing conversations in health right now and it's really appealing. And even as practitioners, you know, the thought of using peptides versus, you know, if we put it through the lens of aging, pumping our bodies with fillers and all of these other things that are out there, it's way more appealing to me, right? I'm there. I think a lot of practitioners are positioning them as the future of medicine. I think a lot of us are also seeing the potential risks and downsides and just unawareness because it is very confusing. So we'll dive into a little bit of this today, and I'm excited to hear how you work with peptides with your clients. And gosh, you're just really one of the voices since the beginning, like you've really been out there speaking about peptides and helping people understand what they are and the benefits. So let's anchor in the framing for people. You know, I'm sure they've heard of peptides, but do you want to break down what they are?

Sure, sure. So yeah, all a peptide is, is a small protein, right? So it's an amino— proteins are made up of amino acids. Amino acids are what we call the building blocks of protein. We have proteins in our body that are hundreds and thousands of amino acids. Made to put together and folded into these complex origami shapes and with recep— you know, binding sites for receptors and whatnot. But peptides, what we're talking about today, generally mean that these are 50 amino acids or less. Very often they are fragments of proteins that are naturally occurring in the body. So this is part of what makes them so interesting, because when you introduce it into the body, they are going to have receptors that they can bind to that will initiate chemical, like, cascades at a cellular level. There's a subset of peptides, or a different group of peptides, if you will, called bioregulators that I speak about a lot. Bioregulators are only 2 to 4 amino acids long, so they are the tiniest of the tiny peptides. But what's interesting about them is whereas the longer chain peptides bind to receptors on cells and initiate whatever they're gonna initiate from the outside of the cell. The bioregulator actually gets into the cell. It gets into the nucleus of the cell and it binds and acts directly on DNA. So they are epigenetic switches. And what they seem to be able to do is restore the DNA's ability to produce proteins for rejuvenation and restoration of function in a way that the cell might've not been doing as much of as we age. So we don't have as many bioregulators, again, present in the body in much longer amount, larger amounts when we're young. We lose them as we age. And so the, the work that's been done around them is if we reintroduce them into the body therapeutically, can we restore balance into some of these systems? And that's another big defining difference between the longer chain peptides and the bioregulators is that the bioregulators are like the adaptogens of the peptide world. They will never push you over. They will never push you down. They're always looking to restore balance. Whereas some of the longer chain peptides, you can go overboard, right? You can push the system into, like, for example, some of the mitochondrial peptides like a MOTC. If you're using MOTC and your mitochondria are not in good shape, or you've got heavy metals, or your body's not set up to deal with the extra oxidative species that are gonna be generated from these mitochondria whipping around, you're gonna get yourself into trouble. But MOTC is just gonna do the thing. It's gonna fire up the engine. So if the engine's not clean or the engine's not, the environment's not clean, you're gonna run into problems.

Yeah, it's almost, you know, when something seems so appealing and enticing, the tendency for so many people naturally is to wanna go and do more and more and more, thinking that more is better when that's not always the way. And I don't wanna gloss over the words that you use. I think that what is also so enticing between peptides versus supplements or pharmaceuticals is you use the word signaling instead of controlling. So if they're signaling the body to function at its best, then that's exactly what we want to do, right? As we think about longevity and, and move into that world versus overriding our biologies, which is what we don't want to do. So that's what's appealing. But why is it then ideally? Yeah. Why is it then now when we think about these clinical conversations that are now going mainstream, what's being lost in translation? Like people are watching and obviously we'll get into the fear of where people are ordering from, what practitioners are prescribing them, but what's being lost in translation in the dialogue that you see?

I think there's a lot of nuance that's being lost. I mean, the problem is because they've become the flavor of the week. Yeah. You know, I'm, and I don't wanna put anybody down, but you've got a lot of, I mean, I've gotten quieter over the last little while rather than noisier, right? Because I find that the way the conversation's going, the loudest voices that are screaming the loudest that have the biggest followings are the ones getting all the attention. Some of them deserve it. Some of them are physicians and they really know what they're talking about and they're really trying to educate people. And then we've also got a bunch of, for lack of a better word, influencers who have just discovered the next great thing that they feel is going to get them their next 100,000, 200,000 followers, who are just jumping on the bandwagon and doing whatever it takes to capture the spotlight.

Yeah, it's so true. It's funny, over the past few years, it's not that I've been testing through my clients, but I work with a lot of athletes and endurance runners and endurance athletes and stuff like that who've been using peptides. And I see firsthand the impact in how they feel in their performance and of course in their recovery, which is why, you know, I'm so excited about this. But I'm also like you. I've just been completely reserved in speaking to them because I know, you know, we both have audiences that want to see the science and want to see the data, right? This is the biggest problem. Like, we just don't have the human studies and clinical data that are there yet. Funny, this morning Dr. Sarah Gottfried— yeah, yeah, her name now, I think she switched her last name back to her maiden name. So she published this morning, there was a 2025 systemic review looking at BPC-157, and out of 544 published papers, only 36 met inclusion criteria. Out of those, 35 were animal studies. And just one was human. So with 12 participants, there was no control group either. Only 7 people reported pain relief. So for her to publish that this morning, I loved the lens that she put it through, was, yeah, like, there's some data that's emerging, it's exciting, it's very appealing, but let's also look at this data and interpret it. Like, just take a second and a pause to interpret it. So where do you anchor this in with your clients who are really looking for evidence-based versus like there's no one cure-all, right?

Yeah. So I, the first thing I wanna say is I'm not in practice right now, so I don't, I'm not advising clients, but where I would look is there is so much data that is being generated, maybe not published, but there's so much data being generated by physicians who've been using peptides in practice. And so, no, they're not double-blind placebo-controlled studies. And unfortunately, we're not gonna get those because nobody's gonna fund it.

Yeah, exactly.

The problem with the BPC-157— the other problem with the BPC-157, and I think one of the reasons that's gonna make it really hard to study, is it is so pleiotropic. It does so many different things in the body when it's introduced, and you can't control if it's gonna fix, um, sore shoulder or address a leaky gut or maybe do both or manage inflammation or help something with the brain. Like, there's so many different things. And what's interesting about introducing it into the body is that imagine that your body has a list of jobs that need to be done, and that list is very specific and it's organized in a very specific way that takes the most important threat to your survival, and makes it the first thing on the list, whether you think it's important or not, actually doesn't rank, right? Like your sore knee, which is preventing you from running in that race in 3 months, which is the one thing you wanna fix, doesn't care. Actually, you know, you've got this other really big problem. So it makes it a very difficult compound to study. And it also, because it can't be patented, there's no real, there's no impetus for the people who have the money to study it to study it. So where do we go to from there? So where I go to from there is I go to, I mean, I did manage a Facebook community, which has since been shut down by our friends at Meta, of about 36,000 people for 6 years. And it was a living lab of people doing really bad, crazy, silly things. All the crazy things we talk about It's happened, right?

Wow.

But I just don't believe that there's that much placebo possible. I don't. And I've lived it myself. I've seen it. I've, I've seen people experience benefits from BPC that they didn't know were even on the table. Um, and there are, and, and then the next layer, which I think more importantly than a Facebook group, or Lord only knows who's in there, is physicians, like the the integrative functional physicians who've been using these compounds in practice for years now. And these guys have records and they can tell you exactly what the results are. So I respect Sarah for bringing this up. Yes, this is true, but you can't throw them away because honestly, they are going to change medicine, hopefully, and they will do it in a way that they will become a very powerful tool. In medicine. They're not going to take over medicine. They're not going to take away drugs or take away certain things, but they will enhance and enrich medicine. Like, I, I interviewed, um, uh, a naturopath a couple months ago. Actually, the podcast just came out, and she works with only chronic complex illness cases, and she talked about how the healing cycles of her patients when she's able to use peptides goes down by half. Wow. So from 5 years to 2 years, from 2 years to 1 year.

Mm-hmm.

It's nutty. And you know what? If it is placebo, well, ball it a lot, bottle it up, baby. Yeah. You know, if, if you have someone who can't function, who suddenly in 6 months can function instead of them taking years.

Life-changing. Yeah. Yeah. You answered that. Beautifully. And you covered all of the pillars that I hoped that you would. So here's what I think we both appreciate. So Sarah put that up, and I love the reflection from a doctor who's looking at data to be inquisitive but also excited. But look at the data, right? Um, especially after what we've been going through recently and understanding, um, medical studies and science as it relates to women. Then you also mentioned the intelligence of the body. Like, if we just don't know, we just don't know. And of all of us, and I think you and I probably agree, like, the future of medicine has to be about personalization, right? True personalization. And to the case that you, you mentioned, yeah, if a peptide works great for me, me going shouting up to the rooftop hoping all my other female friends go and buy it at the same time, that should not exist. That should not happen in social media. We have to recognize exactly what we're going through. And my go-to, who you got to meet, is Dr. Shah. He's a dear friend of mine from, from Next Health.

Yeah.

You know, his brain is just— God, it's fascinating. And he looks at the studies and the science and the data. He's also in practice and will kind of just share notes on, you know, what we're seeing and feeling. So I can't deny that. But this will lead us into the next question. So for listeners who— they're really curious about peptides and they're looking at the expert problem that we're seeing online that we've had for a really, really long time. There's not a lot of depth that's happening in conversations like these. How can they tell the difference between real experience from someone like you versus surface-level information that's emerging from influencers or, gosh, from companies that are now emerging because it's the next hot ticket item? So we're going to see peptides everywhere, right? Could be a profitable business.

Yeah. So this is what's interesting. I think that there's very powerful forces at play trying to stop this peptide wave from taking over. So even supplement companies that, that are producing oral peptides are having a lot of trouble running their businesses right now. You've got credit card processors shutting them down. They can't promote anything on social media. Like, it's a very interest— it's a really shifty landscape right now. In terms of who you get your information from, ask questions. Who are they? Are they an actual medical doctor? Did they get any training? In this? Are they in clinical practice? Are they considering that— is, is there language that everybody needs to do this, or is there language that this— we've seen that this compound can be helpful for this, but it depends on the person? Like, what's your heavy metal load? What's your toxin load? What's your, what's your immune status? What are all the different layers that are your physiology that are going to impact potentially how any compound, including a peptide, is going to affect you. So you want to find the people that are nuanced, not the people that have grabbed onto a message, painted it on a flag and stamped it into a hill and are going to die there with it. You know what I mean? Like, it's— we have to be aware. We have to be— we have to be very— what's the word I'm looking for? We have to be extremely discerning at this point. Where we're getting— where and who we are getting our information from.

And what would the impact be? So let's just say somebody has found a provider online. Tell us about some of the concerns with safety. Maybe you want to talk about compounding pharmacies and stuff like that, where our peptides should come from. Also, what have you seen? Like, I know Next Health even had to stop providing peptides for a little while until things—

yeah, yeah, right. It's, it's a very thorny issue right now.

Right?

So for the longest time, even a lot of physicians were getting their peptides from research labs. They were better research labs. They were, you know, they were maybe more transparent, but at the end of the day, the compounding pharmacies have been handcuffed for a couple of years now because this FDA decree came down 2 years ago, took 14 of the most commonly used peptides and said, no, nobody's using them. They're off the table. So the good news, and everybody's super excited, is that, you know, RFK goes on Joe Rogan and, um, and talks about how he wants to bring them all back, but they want to bring them back to compounding pharmacies. So now then, within minutes, you have influencers going, yay, we got them back, they're back, we've got— and they're not back, newsflash. They're gonna have to go through a process one by one. They're each gonna— is gonna be evaluated and is gonna be hopefully brought back into the hands of compounding pharmacies where you have some checks and balances and better control over the quality of what people will be using versus random overseas manufacturers that, again, some are good, some are bad. But guys, you're injecting this into your body. Like, it's so, it's so sketchy. You have to be so careful. They're so powerful, these compounds. Like, think about the fact that you are introducing like micrograms of a molecule into the belly, your belly fat, and from there it is able to initiate all of these incredible cascades in your body. Like, if you really think about that, that's like as, as crazy as planes flying and radio waves traveling through the air. Like, it's wild how that can happen.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it needs to be respected. It's powerful.

It is so true. And it's a commitment, right? Like, this is a lifetime process that you are committing to for a lot of these peptides for them to continue to work. It's funny with my— the Danish side of me, when I go to Denmark and my family, they're like, what now? So you're putting a needle up to your tummy every single day and you don't have to, but you think it might be a good idea because you heard from studies on rats that it could support you in the future, but you're not sure yet. And there's no human studies. Like, when you say the words out loud, it just— it sounds crazy. Right. But look, we're talking about peptides, but you and I both know whether we, you know, your clients in the past, whether you were working with supplements, it's the same drill, understanding where they come from, the regulation around them, where they're created, what's going into them. If it's a pharmaceutical drug, pharmaceutical drugs are recalled all the time for safety and efficacy. Right. So, yeah, I agree with you. It's like, take it with an air of caution and my God, just please do it with a practitioner. I just think that these are things that should be guided with a practitioner for you to understand what's working, what, what else is happening in your body, how to monitor any changes that you're going through. Because more often than not, we, we don't know. And for a lot of the clients that I work with who are taking peptides, they're the ones that see the dangling carrot and the supplements, and they buy things online because they heard it was good for them, and they're taking all of that, right? So there's a lot that you can do.

Yeah, no, and the stack gets— this stack gets bigger and bigger and deeper and deeper, and now they're taking 35 different things and there's no algorithm that's going to tell you what the interaction is of those 35 things in your body. It's just like medications. So intentionality, being intentional and understanding what each thing is doing so that A, you don't block it with something else unintentionally, um, or B, you're not doubling down on a pathway that maybe you don't want to double down on. Like, you just, you, you gotta kind pay attention, right? And, and just because you have 30 things that sound really great doesn't mean that you need to take them all at the same time. Maybe what you need to do is create stacks and you do one thing for 3 months and then you do the next one for 3 months and then you do the next one for 3 months. And that actually is nice because it builds rhythm and cycling into your protocols. I don't, you know, you asked about what peptides should everybody use indefinitely and I said GHK, but that was really under duress. Like, I really still believe that GHK should probably be cycled. Maybe it could be used indefinitely, but no, we don't have any data on that.

Yeah, there you go. Beautiful. Thank you for adding that in. Yeah, look, we see a lot of people who are doing everything right, right? They sit in front of us and still after they think they're doing everything right, they still don't feel great. Just last week I took on a client who, gosh, we did a total toxic burden test and like every pesticide. Glyphosate, 6 different types of mold. And the reaction is, okay, well, give me the supplement protocol, the hardcore diet to go on, the peptides. It's like, no, no, no, we are pulling back. Kind of like with you and your healing journey, we're going food first. We gotta strip away, optimize terrain, and then we can kind of be curious about everything else to heal the body. And I think that this is the forgotten science of what people need to understand about true healing. Our bodies are so resilient, they're freaking miracles. Like the healing that we see happen without food. I'm doing my master's in quantum healing, and the stories that I hear about, like, cancers going into remission without any modalities used at all, with the power of the brain. Anyways, that's a different conversation for a different thing. The power of the mind to heal the body on its own, right? It's just— and the data is there also, it's just not being published.

Yeah.

And it's not as easy. So, all right, let's stay on the topic a little longer because you mentioned bioregulators. And this is something that, you know, a lot of people are interested in working with. There's an important distinction here between forcing the body, as we've said, versus supporting the body. Can you explain how bioregulator peptides work in the body rather than overriding it?

To begin with, they, they occur naturally in food. So as nutritionists, that always gets our attention, right? So, you know how organ meats were very popular in ancestral diets. Those, all those bits and bobs, or the ancient wisdom of somebody has a heart problem, feed them heart. Somebody has a kidney problem, feed them kidney. Well, rooted in that wisdom is the fact that the bioregulator for the heart comes from the heart muscle. The bioregulator for the liver comes from the liver. Same with the kidneys. Like it's, pretty darn foundational stuff, right? This is ancestral wisdom. Now, you could eat heart, but the problem is nobody's running around eating blood vessels or stomach or pancreas. In A, you couldn't find it. B, maybe a little less tasty, I think. Yeah, it's kind of like, I don't know. The good news is that in Russia there's a physician and researcher by the name of Professor Vladimir Cavinson, who about— I mean, over 3 decades ago now was given all the resources and the project of figuring out how to heal the military when they came back from nuclear submarine missions and space missions and war, where they might be exposed to all kinds of toxins. He was asked to figure out a way to help them, their bodies, to heal. And from that, he discovered these tiny amino acid chains, these very small molecules that exist in every life form that he looked at. They exist in plants, they exist in animals, they exist in insects and humans, and all— everything in between has some degree of bioregulator peptide. Existing in it. And these bioregulator peptides are— act directly on the DNA of the whatever target tissue to, you know, and, and the way that it was expressed to me more recently by a clinician was that it, it repairs the DNA's ability to express properly and to produce proteins that then initiate the repair and rejuvenation at a cellular level. And so Remember, we're talking about repair and rejuvenation, so we are not gonna become superhuman.

Mm-hmm.

All that it's gonna do is restore the ability of the body to do what the body knows how to do best.

Yeah.

So there are 21, there are more than 21 bioregulators, but right now there are 21 widely available bioregulators that are available as nutritional supplements.

Mm-hmm.

And so They are extracts of animal tissues, but there's, they're so refined and so concentrated that you're really just getting the, that very short amino acid chain. Plus, in the natural bioregulator, you're also getting a, like an entourage, if you will, of other short peptides, other amino acids that kind of support the function of the main one. So when people are using natural bioregulators, we very often will say that there's, it might take a little longer to experience the effect. But the effect will be longer lasting. And maybe it's because the work is a little bit more holistic. So you're going in to fix the leak in the kitchen under the sink, but you know, you're also gonna fix the cabinet around it and maybe you'll— or the caulking around the sink and whatever else you can do to fix the whole area. Whereas with a synthetic bioregulator, because we have, scientists have figured out how to re— to synthesize the most important chain in that group, if you will, for most of the bioregulators, they're just going in to solder the pipe that's leaking.

Yeah. Right. Good point.

So it's a faster hit.

Mm-hmm. Do you eat organ meats? Can you eat organ meats? I eat some. She wants to eat organ meats.

I don't eat enough, right? So I would, in, I mean, right now, again, like I'm just coming out of this phase. I'm not using any bio— I'm not even using bioregulators right now. But I will use bioregulators on the other side.

Yeah. Okay. Look, I know that the science is there. It's funny enough, I just got back from Toronto and I met with a Russian doctor named Dr. Dmitry who prescribed— Yeah, I'll send you his info.

I think I need to meet Dr. Dmitry.

I love it. Oh, you do. Yeah. He's really merged, you know, studies in shamanism and understanding of the body's aura and energetic systems and how that relates to using food and stuff like that. And he made the recommendation of eating organ meats, which I don't think I— I've never been able to do it. I grew up— I'm Danish, so we grew up eating liverwurst on about everything. But outside of that, I haven't been called to it. I do work with clients who can do it easily and naturally. But I mean, it's, it's a really fascinating concept when you think about like even the spiritual lens, like if we're taking the life of an animal anyways and we think of it being a gift for the body and with ancient wisdom kind of mimicking how organs can be beneficial for the human body. It's fascinating. But again, like, there's the deeper layer of the psychology around it too, right? Like, the study that you mentioned is amazing. If we think about this post-traumatic stress and then something the body's being able to give to, to heal again at an exponential rate is fascinating, right? Because there's an override that happens within the body beyond what happened, or the mind, or things like that. So It's just also fascinating and it's so complex, right? And this is like, I'll say it again, like working with a practitioner when we're uncovering an ideal healing protocol for someone, there's just, there's so much to consider. And I'm emphasizing that point because I still think like it's just, it's tough for all of us. I'm sure you included. When we hear about a new study or science or modality or food or supplement that's there, we, oh, maybe this is it. This has got to be the next big thing. It's going to be the thing that makes me feel really, really great. But hey, there's a whole interconnected system that we need to address at the same time. For sure. What was your— what is your standpoint? You know, if you are encouraging listeners, if you were to give them a message around what I just said and maybe offering a more gentle starting point, is there another area for entry that you would kind of guide them to or caution them to?

Yeah, well, look, I mean, it always starts with lifestyle. Right. We have to do— and if the audience is doing the lifestyle, great. So now we look at— and I think the one thing— and lifestyle is diet, managing your stress, moving your body, getting out in nature, eating, eating the right foods at the right time for you at your stage of life. Next layer will be, you know, once you're doing that, where are your hormones sitting? Are you sleeping? Are your hormones being taken care of? And once you've got that, we can, we can alongside that, we can start bringing in the modalities that, that support the balance, right? So the molecular hydrogen, the nano V structured water, the PMF mats, the red light and near infrared light, the infrared saunas, like all of those things now start to weave and become part of the lifestyle. And I think the reason for that is that we live in a very challenging world to our physiology. And so just eating food and, you know, is not enough necessarily. Like, I live in a big nasty, so do you. We live in polluted cities. We need to support our body's detoxification systems. We don't need to detox, but we do need to support the detoxification systems in our body so that they— it can keep up with what's coming at it all the time. So this is where we start. Then we have to— then if you're on, honestly, any age, you need to get baseline testing and understand where are you on toxins and other load, bacterial load, viral load in your system that might be standing in the way of your body doing its thing. And I will say to the 30 or 35-year-old who feels fine, that's great. But a lot of these things don't declare right away. It takes years for the deficits to show up because your body is so resilient and so resourceful that it can cover up. The deficits for a long time until the day that it can't. So don't— I don't think we have the luxury right now of just closing our eyes and saying everything's fine, I feel fine. Not to make people neurotic at all, but wouldn't it be great to have a baseline idea of what your heavy metal load is? Because that'll give you an idea of what you're being exposed to and what maybe you need to take and pay attention to. Um, what is your toxic load? And you mentioned before glyphosates and we can't avoid them, right? So what's the load? There are now probiotics that you can take that help to break down glyphosate in the gut. So we have solutions, so we— but we can't apply those solutions unless we know what, what we're dealing with. And things like fiber, healthy fats, phospholipids, like all these basic things that we forget. Right? How many of your clients are consuming 30 to 35 grams of fiber a day?

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It takes time to get there.

It takes time. Yeah. Because don't be going, don't go into fiber island overnight. Let me be the one to tell you that will not end well for you. You can't go from 0 to 35 on fiber. Nobody in the body is prepared for that and there will be things, hell to pay. So I think that it goes in steps and stages. So where do you see yourself on that continuum, right? Are you at the 101 stage or are you at 201? Are you feeling, are you really optimized? And you're like, okay, well now let's start talking about what are the things you can be doing to, to really kind of amplify and hold on to this amazingness through the coming decades. And now we start to really, you know, you can, you can get really curious and interested about all these regenerative therapies. Apply a dose of humility, curiosity, and wisdom to the whole thing, right? Because I think that— and follow your gut. If something doesn't feel right, then either it's not right or it's not right for you right now. Just, you know, it's an interesting space that we're in. You know, I think there's so much opportunity. There's so much excitement. It's such a cool time that we're in right now. But we have to be careful that we don't just get swept away into the excitement.

It seems like today we keep coming back to the thread that the body knows, your body knows intuitively, your body knows. And I would say the cool thing with working with practitioner is, you know, the weekly check-ins, right? You're not in practice right now, but when you were, the weekly check-ins, we talk about what's working, we talk about what's not working. And, you know, the reason why I love data through you know, biomarker testing and blood labs and stool tests and stuff like that. I don't think it's always necessary, but I think there's a couple of things that are beneficial. One, you can test what is working and what isn't working. Two, if you talk about personalization and targeted metrics for optimization, that's the only way that we can really get them. I know that there's Eastern practitioners that can look at your iris and your pupil and your tongue and stuff like that, right? Yeah, which is beneficial. I would have to study with one for a decade or so before I got to that level, I feel. But even muscle testing— did you learn muscle testing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Muscle testing, I think, is really powerful when I get to do that. But no supplement protocol is the same for my clients, and I'm imagining no peptide protocol should be either. And you know, how many of us, even you and I, for all the new things that we try all the time, it's not like we start taking a supplement, we wake up, we're like, I feel a difference. It's working. This is it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, and the other thing I would say that I think the thing that a lot of people don't, we forget, is baseline testing.

Yeah.

Test before something's wrong.

You got it.

Right? Like if you feel fine and you feel good and you haven't done any of this baseline testing, do it at least once. See what's there. See what's under the surface that might be brewing, or you're, you're perfectly fine. The other thing is the wearables right now are, phenomenal. They give you incredible insight into how your body's doing. Like, if I— I was paying attention to my wearables before, you know, all hell broke loose, and I could tell there was a storm brewing. I just couldn't tell what it was, but it had my attention, right? My heart rate variability was on the floor. My resting heart rate was sky high. My, you know, like, all these— my body temperature was all over the place. Like, things were not good. And I was exhausted and I'm not an exhausted person. So even that was a— these were signals to pay attention. And interestingly enough, I'd had a very extensive workup done in September, which I'm really grateful for because it gives me some sense of where I started before things were— I mean, it took 3 or 4 months before, you know, this all happened 3 or 4 months later, but It still gives me a sense of where I was. And then when, when everyone, you know, when everything went kind of all over the place, you need to know where, what's my normal. And you can't know that unless you pay, you, you check it out. So, you know, is this a call to do your annual physical? Yes, but look a little bit deeper.

You got it. Hey, I have a lot of Canadians that listen to this. When I moved to LA, At that time, 15 years ago, obviously in Toronto, it was so hard to find practitioners to run labs, or they were paying an arm and a leg for an assessment appointment before covering the cost of labs. Is it easier in Canada now than it was before? Here there's lab clinics everywhere. There's, you know, phlebotomists will go to your house.

Yeah, I mean, look, LifeLabs will come to your house in Toronto if you pay them enough.

Okay.

But I think the tricky thing in Canada is that our governing bodies are still very, very rigid and very unfriendly to anything outside the system. So I've just started seeing, if anybody's in Toronto and looking for a concierge doctor, I've just started seeing one now. There's a couple around, but you know what's interesting is they don't, it's, they're walking a very fine line. Because their college is not going to put up with a whole lot of straying off the thing. I use MedCan to a degree, but you know, when they were offering primary care services and I asked about hormone therapy, the response I got was, well, we follow the guidelines established by the— and I was like, okay, thank you. I won't be forking over thousands of dollars just to get, you know, the same stuff. Um, so I think in Canada, and it depends very much by province, Ontario and Quebec I think is actually the worst, but Ontario it's still a bit of a tightrope. There are people around, there are alternative practitioners, but it's very word of mouth. They're not easy to find because they can't just be hanging out a shingle on the street and saying, come over here, I do this.

Yeah, it's funny, like I, uh, when I go home, there's a respect that I have for that. But then I also go into like the care common and I find I can't get a vitamin D over 2,500 units, right? Like here, if you wanted a 10,000 or 20,000 unit in one capsule, they're so readily available, but not in Canada, right? So there's little things. Yeah. Um, so yeah, air of caution. So the takeaway of all of this, I think, is the personalization. I think it's the expert-driven science that you need to look at and do your investigation with the partnership of practitioners so that you understand where those peptides are coming from is very important. But also understanding your physiology needs to be paramount. That has to be number one. And like we talk about longevity, gosh, guys, like instead of throwing things at the wall and hoping that things will work, just understand your biology and what you need. I often— have you ever done a genetic test? Oh yeah, I'm sure you've done— silly question. Yeah, yeah, me understanding that about biology supplementation-wise, to know what I need to be supplementing for the rest of my life. Wow. It's like true understanding of this one vessel that we get in this lifetime. So yeah, I understand information overload, but I think if you feel inspired by personalization, focus on owning your personalization, right? You will figure out what your non-negotiables are that are for no one else, just you.

Yeah, and find a practitioner. If you know, some people can take it on for themselves really well, right? And those are usually, they're usually engineers and they show up with like spreadsheets of stuff and they've got it all figured out. And then other people just get overwhelmed. And if you get overwhelmed, that's okay. You are the CEO, but you're allowed to assemble a team. So you wanna find a practitioner who's gonna accompany you and guide you so that you don't have to do all the heavy lifting. You don't have to understand everything necessarily, but what you do have to get is that you have to be an active participant. So there's no pill that's gonna make it go away. There's no, you know, there's certainly, yeah. I mean, you could take DHM after a night of too heavy drinking or, you know, pop a Deliverance. I don't know if you've heard of Deliverance that—

Yeah. Yeah.

You can have Deliverance. It can, it can, it's got your back for one night of too many cocktails, but don't think you're gonna be able to use it as your crutch, as you know, for, for ongoing problem, um, abuse. That way, but there are tools, but you just, it's, it's, see it as empowering, right? Like see it as the gift of having influence over the single most important thing in your life right now. It's the biggest gift you were given is your body. And, um, I, I do, I'll say it again. I think we're at a very exciting time. There's so much available to us. So it's really just about finding the people and the person who's gonna help to guide you on your journey.

Do you know the first question that I ask somebody when I meet with them is, who do you have on your care team? And more often than not, people say, well, I guess I have my primary who I call for emergencies or my yearly, and then you, right? And I say that, I share that. One, I built out an entire app around this because I just want people to understand, know the practitioner that you go to for your labs, for your back pain, for your hormones, for your sleep, for longevity, whoever it is that you feel that you need to build out as part of your care team so that you feel supported. Because I think a lot of people now, like, we're going blind, which is why these dangling carrots look so enticing to us, right? But if we've got the right practitioners in place, then there's trust and I think we have to put that trust back into our bodies.

100%. Could not agree more.

So let's close this off. Let's just say there could be someone listening who has ordered the peptides. They've tried them. They may not have done them in the, the process that you and I have talked about. How can they course correct safely? Or what's, you know, a tip or advice you would use to guide them?

Well, I mean, you know, the nice thing is with AI right now, there's a lot of information that's available to us. So if it's within your ability to do so, I would find a practitioner who can at least get you started and make sure that it's the right thing for you right now, that you're going to use it properly. There's a really cool app called PeptidePro that has— it's like an encyclopedia of small molecule compounds in there. And, um, it can be really helpful for people. It's got a lot of good information in there, but I think that if you want to course correct because you're not getting the results that you're looking for, then you're going to need, you're going to need to get yourself some professional help. And the, and the other peptide category that I think, not to start another conversation, but if you're using GLPs, make sure that you're getting the right guidance around the GLPs because right now the storm of negative information about it, the GLPs, is purely predicated on the fact that people are not using them properly. They're using too high a dose, they're not correcting their diet, they're not exercising, they're, you know, and I know that there's lawsuits and all the things, so that's a whole other issue. But for people, there are also tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people getting really, who are using the GLPs without those issues. But though, but the people, the small proportion of people that are getting the best results are the people that are working with practitioners and addressing all the underlying stuff at the same time. And they're using them as training wheels on a bike, not as, you know, like a crane holding you up so that you can bike without falling over.

I honestly think that the GLP-1 conversation, to elaborate on what you just mentioned, is also driving the next wave in our world, which is fiber, which is really cool, right? However, Nat, I just got back from Expo West. Yeah, fiber gummies, fiber drinks, fiber powders, fiber—

eat vegetables, for the love of God, just eat veggies.

The science on fiber is from the phytonutrients and the soils and the microorganisms and stuff like that. But I think all these people on GLP-1s who are no longer pooping are recognizing, oh, this has got to be the next business, the next wave on how we can ride on to this. So again, It's like you and I were going back to nature to focus on these, on these things. And, um, air of caution, right? If what you're taking is throwing another system in your body off, then a system is shutting down or going off. You need to resolve that system, right? Um, a lot of the work that I do as a nutritionist— let's get into more like the things if they had two nutritionists together working and talking about things that we love. Let's, let's go into that a little bit. I obviously have this very Eastern influence It was Eastern medicine that did the most of my healing through Ayurveda at that ashram that I mentioned that I'm going to send you to one day. I'll meet you there.

Check it out. Yeah, that's it. That's where we're going to meet.

That's where we're going to meet. Yeah.

Yeah.

So the strong influence on food is medicine, spirituality, nature, connection, being outside, all the things that science is proving to be right. But I'm also just in love with, you know, the modalities and the biohacking and where I spend a lot of time at Next Health and stuff like that where you got to go. Let's talk about some of your favorite things. So it's not that you need to share a lot about what you're going through right now, but things that you're going back to really heal, because as a nutritionist, these are the pillars that matter most to you. Yeah. What are some of those?

Well, I mean, like I said, food first, right? So bringing, you know, I mean, I do go rogue once in a while. I am taking an omega-3 supplement. I'm not going to lie. But I also eat fish roe.

Right?

Because it's, it's more bioavailable. But in terms of the modalities, like, look, I'm super blessed to have the things at home that I have. And so my Power Plate is my BFF. My Katsu bands, the, those variable blood flow restriction bands, are magic. The sauna, the infrared sauna is unbelievably helpful. And, you know, look, I mean, I have a cabin sauna, but they are, they're the company that makes my cabin sauna, Sunlighten, also makes a solo version that is that is collapsible and portable and stuffs into a corner when you're not using it. Way more affordable. Um, you know, I've got the Nano V here, which is, which is a, you know, it's a big lift as, but if you have the budget for it, it helps the body to deal with oxidative stress, which is a big piece of the puzzle at a cellular level. Molecular hydrogen, I mean, there's many different ways to get access to molecular hydrogen, which is so versatile in its impact on, again, oxidative stress and inflammation in the body. So you could use the open cup tablets by a company like Drink HRW, where you just plop them in a glass of water and drink it up. There's bottles like the Eco Bottle, like E-H-C-O, Eco Water Bottle, that generates hydrogen on the go. Or if you've got the bandwidth and the budget and the space, I've got the Inhale 2 machine here where I will sit, mask over my face, screen, right, in 20-minute increments to, to do that. So, so all those, you know, my poor husband, he's like, oh my God, there's another box at the door. What is it?

What is it now? Where are we putting this?

Or, or the little red, the near-infrared light, or the Kineon, which has 3 lasers on it that you can, that mostly they came to market to, to, to apply red and near-infrared light to musculoskeletal injuries. But guess what? You put it on your belly, it's really good for your microbiome. You put it around your neck, there's a really interesting study that came out for it for thyroid. And my, my, uh, resting heart rate was like sub-50, like it was too low because I'm not an Olympic athlete. So I know that if my heart, my resting heart rate is 47, it could be that my thyroid's kind of on the struggle bus right now. So I started putting my Kineon around my neck every morning, and guess what? For the last 5 days, my resting heart rate's at 50. Coincidence?

Wow.

Don't know.

Yeah.

Maybe. You know, time will tell. So all these different tools, some of them, for some of you, like you've got places, if you're near a place like Next Health, they have some of these technologies, including like an hyperbaric oxygen chamber or a cryotherapy chamber, um, that you can access, right? Or, you know, your wish list might not be the next shiny bauble, it might be the next health tool that you can bring into your house. And that was, that was the discussion I used to have with my husband. I'm like, well, yeah, we're spending $5,000 on a mattress because it's really cool, but look at the bright side, I'm not shopping for Manolo Blahnik. Exactly.

I could care less about that stuff anymore too. It's like, it's going to help you feel better every day. Same with me.

You get to use it too. So how cool is that?

It's a win-win. We get to do this forever. You mentioned such great modalities. I want to take a second to shout out Sunlighten also. It's a sauna that I absolutely love for so many reasons, right? So obviously beyond the health benefits. But yeah, going to the sauna for me is almost like the spiritual experience too. Like, it forces me to be to breathe, to take time with myself. And it's cool when you tune into your body or do any type of embodiment practice to feel your body shift into that hormetic stressor and then come back down without, you know, something that was really intense or, you know, HIIT training workout or something like that. You really get in touch with how magnificent your body is. So I just wanted to have her on sunlight, sunlighten for them. Yeah. And also the benefits that come beyond that thyroid you mentioned as well.

It's funny.

I figured out a couple of years back that I had toxic mold poisoning from a wearable because my HRV tanked. Like, I was dropping into the 30s. I was getting up 3 or 4 times a night. Yeah, it was just— it was a bad scene. So wearables can be really, really powerful. When you mentioned thyroid, that's really great indication for people. Can we go back to what you mentioned at the beginning of the show? And you mentioned laser, but also red light over the thyroid, because I noticed significant improvements in my thyroid numbers. After focused red light therapy over my thyroid.

Yeah, no, it's, it's there. Um, you know who published, uh, who shared it first was Dr. Mike Ruscio. Uh, there was a study that was, that came out that showed that near-infrared light and red light therapy over the thyroid, and, and it makes sense because what's it doing? It's, it's helping mitochondria, and your thyroid is filled with mitochondria. Now, is it possible that I might also need to add a little bit of iodine to my world? Is it possible that I, you know, I need to make sure I just ran my thyroid Throid Labs.

I—

my TSH, my T3, my T4, they all look pretty good. It's still early days. I didn't check my RT3 yet, but for now everything seems okay.

The—

I'm doing the red light as a support, and we'll see if I need more support. Maybe I need to throw some Thyroid BioRegulator in there for a month or so down the road. It'll be interesting moving forward. So what we want to make sure, even as we're doing the red light therapy, is that we provide the nutrients for the thyroid that it needs. I don't think I have a gluten problem, but I don't eat a whole lot of gluten, just verge on the, on the side of caution. But if my thyroid got into trouble, I'd be looking at my thyroid antibodies to see if that might be an issue. So it's, think of it as, you know, I think what's important is not to, is hopefully not to bring in a lot of anxiety to this. To the table, but to bring a lot of curiosity to the table and be open to the possibility. And the thing that we can't really overstate, I think both of us, is the role that chronic stress and not taking the time to self-regulate really costs. And actually, I'm not wearing it right now, but the one wearable that I've worn almost religiously for the last month that's made a huge difference for me, and I was shocked because I dismissed this thing out of hand a couple of years ago, and it's the Apollo.

Oh, interesting. It's funny, the Apollo's next on my list. I've taken a long break of, for my Oura just 'cause I was getting too deep into my metrics, but Apollo's top of my list.

So Apollo, but they're different, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Apollo's, yeah. So Oura gives you feedback, but Apollo helps with the nervous system. And yeah, it's like a little vibrator on your wrist or your ankle or your chest depending on where you wear it. Yeah, my, my HRV doubled.

It took a couple of weeks.

It took about a week or so. Um, but my HRV went from dismal to respectable. Like it was dramatic.

And I think you can wear it around your wrist or your ankle, right?

But you can, yeah, you can wear it around your wrist. You can wear it around your ankle.

You can use this as well, I think.

No, it's here.

No, I know the little band with the vibrating plate.

This is the clip. And so the, the Apollo is about this size. It clips on and then you can put it on right here. What's interesting about this is now it's right over your chest bone.

Your chest bone. Exactly.

Yeah. So I used to wear it like that, but now I wear it around my wrist.

Yeah, I think I tried the wrist and then I took a break from everything. So yeah, look, and I don't know if you have affiliation with them, but these are all things that you and I just love. So I love that you're hovering on some of them because I think it's important if you want to turn down the noise on what you think you should be doing, find the modalities that, you know, bring you the greatest relief. And to your point, like, you and I, this is— I spend my money on my health modalities for myself and for my family. It's what matters most, and it's how we spend a lot of our time. It becomes an activity in our house, right? So what are we doing? Legs up the wall with red light therapy. Okay. Um, and then you get your family to buy in, right? And that's most— it's the greatest gift that you could possibly give someone. So for listeners, if you were overwhelmed by any of those, try to find— there's so many pop-up places that are happening now around wellness modalities that you can go and experience. See the ones which give you the greatest relief, and maybe you put that on your holiday or birthday list or something like that, because you deserve to feel really good.

100%. And there's more and more events that are happening. Like, you have Biohackers World happening, I think, in 2 days from— at the time of we're recording this, you have Biohackers World in LA. Um, there's— I mean, there's Dave Asprey's conference, which is like a massive ticket. I'm speaking at a longevity event in New York at the end of May. Like, there's— it's like every weekend. So folks, if you're interested in this stuff, see if you can find one of these events close to you, because one of the big wins of these events is you get to see, touch, and feel a lot of these technologies and see I mean, I didn't even mention the Carol bike. You know, there's more that I— there's so— we could be here all day, right? But you could.

I just got a Carol bike.

That was it.

Next level. I'm so loving it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I did 3 rides in a row and like the personalization for how to support you in movement is incredible. I'm in love with it. That and NanoVie as well. NanoVie for me is a game changer. So great shares. Now, where can people find you? You have a podcast as well. So tell us the name of your podcast.

So the podcast is called Longevity with Natalie Nidam. And at some point soon, it'll be featuring Dr. Mona Sharma. Well, I think we're going to do it in person in Toronto, though. That's, that's my feeling. And it's Longevity with Natalie Nidam. You can find me on Instagram @natalienidam. And I have a membership community. You know, when the, when the Facebook group, when the writing was on the wall with the Facebook group, I basically I said, you know, whoever wants to follow me, I'm going over and starting a membership community. I do spend money. I do. It does cost a bit of money to be a member, but I do live Q&As in there every week. I bring podcast guests. Like, we do a lot of cool things. We do kind of experiments with some of the brands that I work with. So there's some cool stuff in there. So there's always the membership community. And really ground zero for all of that, including the newsletter, is natnidim.com, is my website. So netm.com, you'll find it all. It's all there.

And I love that you slipped, you called me a doctor. I get that reflection so often. I should get a naturopathic doctor. I'm sorry, it's just my thing. My parents always wanted me to become a doctor. I, if I could go back in time, I would have gone to the Canadian College of Natural, uh, Naturopathic Medicine. But maybe it'll happen when I'm done my quantum, uh, master's. I'll be a doctor. So, well, there you go. Maybe manifested for me.

There you go.

There you go. I've got a community as well. I'd love to have you come in. Maybe we do it. We do a swap that way. Yes, that would come into our communities, get more of the real deal of what we do day in and day out and all of our, our tips and tricks. Pepper us with questions. Yes, exactly. All the questions. I'm so great to meet you this way and I will see you in Toronto. Thank you for sharing those details. We're going to link out everything below. To close off, tell me, what is something that really excites you about the future of wellness or nutrition or longevity?

I think it's the intersection of going back to nature and advanced technologies, but, but also how so many of these advanced modalities that we're seeing now, like exosomes and cell factors, it all goes back to nature. It always comes back to na— it always comes back to nature. We're either trying to mimic nature or we're trying to access pieces of nature. And I think what's exciting is where these things are converging and coming together. And really, really connecting with how can we help the body to do what it does best.

You're speaking my love language. And I think— I mean, we're on the same wavelength. True health is not built on trends, right? It's not built on the shortcuts that we see as much as we want those things to work. It's the foundation. And as I always say, your body knows exactly how to heal. So just trust that you're the healer. Thank you so much for being here today. I'll see you. I'll see you in a few months. In Toronto.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.