DeMar DeRozan on LeBron at The Drew, Jordan's legacy & mental health struggles | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. We have here today a brother of mine, someone who I've won a gold medal with, and that you may have seen me speak with before. And I hope you enjoyed that. And I hope you enjoy this one. I think this will be a little bit different. Honestly, I have all of these notes here to talk about and go off of. But the reality is, is I think what you're gonna enjoy most about this is, this is just gonna be a dope conversation with me and my brother, 5-time All-Star, 3-time All-NBA, Chicago Bulls star, DeMar DeRozan.

What's up, my brother? My dawg, man, appreciate you, man.

You know, if you want me on the show, I'm coming.

I don't care what it's about. You could start a cooking show tomorrow, I'll be on it, so.

I appreciate that, brother. Number one, I wanna say thank you 'cause I don't never take this for granted. Although we will chop it up any day, talk on the phone any day. I think the thing that most people don't realize is like, I, how much fun I have doing this. But when you're with someone, like I talked to this dude probably 3 to 4 times a week all year. And you know, when you're, when you're allowed to do something that you love with the people you love and share that with you, I don't take that for granted. So getting into this, um, number one, like let's, let's go right into this. What? I had a chance last weekend to watch you and Bron play in the Drew League. And for me, I enjoyed the hell out of it. And the reason I enjoyed it was because you miss that atmosphere. Like, I miss the atmosphere of going into a high school gym and playing basketball or watching a basketball game. Now you take that to another level and I'm going into a high school gym watching you and LeBron James play a basketball game. What was that like? And I know you play in the Drew often, but I can't imagine the energy that I felt that day. I can't imagine that it's always like that.

Nah, I mean, I made it a conscious effort to come back this off season and say I was gonna try playing the Drew every weekend. You know, last couple years, you know, especially with the pandemic, it was a summer, it wasn't no Drew. The following summer was kind of sporadic all over the place. You know, so that basketball element, you know, for the community hasn't been there. You know, I think for me, I was just trying to get back on top of working on my game, but just give those, the kids that hasn't had the opportunity to see, you know, basketball up close and personal, you know? And for me, it was just a conscious effort of being there. And it was one day, one, the previous weekend, Bron had hit me after I played in it and was like, yo, I'm trying to come down there and play with you. So I'm like, you know, in the moment I'm like, hell yeah, that's dope. You know, not just for me, just for the community, you know? And he was with it, you know, I told him, man, come on, let's do it. You know, he hit me the night before. I put out a little tweet, you know, and woke up the next day and it was one of those moments that you can't duplicate. Like I remember when Kobe came and played in the Drew, that was kind of one of the most epic moments of how he did that. But it wasn't even supposed to have been a game played that day. So this time around with Bron coming, it was a game supposed to be played. I've been playing in it and to wake up that morning and see the line around the Drew League, stretched around the corner. It just took it back to that old school, early 2000s feel. Like you said, being in the high school gym and just to see the kids out there being able to see LeBron James come play in Compton. Like you cannot beat that, you know? And the atmosphere was one of a kind. It was special. I was honored to be a part of it. And, you know, I gotta give credit to Bron for even, you know, you talking about a guy that's— Yeah. The GOAT in our league going into his 20th season, you know, going out there playing like what we grew up watching, you know what I mean? It was amazing feeling. You know, I had a great time just being out there, you know, playing with him obviously. And you know, you just look around, it was a couple moments where I just looked around, you see kids, you know, just the smile and excitement on their face. Like that's something, that they gonna remember forever, you know? And that's what it's all about.

Absolutely. I spoke about this on maybe 2 episodes ago on the podcast. And I was speaking about, number 1, some of the talking heads come out and wanna dissect the game. Number 1, we're not dissecting the summer, A Drew League game. Now we're not even gonna go Summer League. That's NBA Summer League. We're not dissecting a Drew League game. But what I said on that episode was what it was for me. And again, I'm not from Compton. I'm not from LA. I don't play in LA. I live here. But, and so this isn't my community. Now in saying that, you from here, I got other folks from here. I embraced the community 'cause this community has been great to me, although I haven't played here, I'm not from here. So I embraced this community, but as someone who's not a local here, what I saw was, like you just said, kids that will never in their life have the opportunity to watch you play, have the opportunity to watch LeBron James play. And like, I could feel that. Like, you could see that. You could see the reactions on their faces. And to allow the city to touch him, growing up for me, and I'm sure it's the same way for you, maybe possibly a little different for you because it's bigger around you as opposed to me growing up in Saginaw. Mm-hmm. NBA players were like surreal to me. Yeah, no question. Like they weren't real people. They're like somebody you watch play basketball on TV and like, wow, that's incredible. Like I wanna do that one day, but no clue how to get there. What I saw from those kids was like, they got to touch you. They got to touch LeBron James. How big is that for the community and continuing to move Compton forward and continuing to make Compton a better place than it was when you arrived in Compton.

That's what it's all about. And that was even a conversation I had with Brian was saying, you know, this was for the city. You know, last couple years, you know, the passing of Kobe, you know, we lost Nipsey Hussle. It's been, you know, the city has kind of been extremely heavy with losing a lot of, legends that the community look up to and guys just outside of sports that move this whole community and give you imagination and give you that inspiration and wanna keep pushing forward. You know, so that moment there was an opportunity for us to capitalize on. And like you said, you've seen it in these kids' face that that's gonna do something for them that's way beyond just basketball. It give you a sense of, motivation, confidence, inspiration, and wanna be something bigger and better than what you see in that moment. I remember when I was a kid, you know, no disrespect, but to me, my first NBA player that I seen that I thought was everything that I could touch was Derek Martin. Most people won't even know who Derek Martin is, but I remember seeing him at my grandfather's house when I was a kid and just knowing he was in the NBA was the only motivation I needed to keep pushing forward. Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely, 100%. So you telling me LeBron James just came down here to play and right across the street is the projects, right down the street, like, is the neighborhood I grew up in. Like, I could go on and on what's around that community. So to see this man come up there and play, them, it about, you know, critiquing it. Like you said, it's bigger than that.

It's bigger than basketball.

It's being an inspiration and a motivation to that community. To have light and to keep pushing forward. And that was a positive day that's gonna be remembered forever.

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Yeah.

Or I can't take the game serious. And if I can't take the game serious, then I don't like being out there. No question. I then watched you get into it with dude with the taxi Kobe's on. So that's the only way I'm gonna remember him is that he had on the taxi Kobe's. And by the way, kind of pissed me off a little bit. You was over there on the sideline talking and he just sitting there mugging when he ain't get back in the game.

Right, right.

I don't know, bro, but I ain't appreciate it. That shit kind of pissed me off a little bit. But in saying that, it feel like to me, and once I saw that, It gets serious out there and that's okay.

Yeah, I mean, that's the game we grew up on. You know what I mean? Like that's how I looked at the game where when you go to the park or you going to the gym, like it's not playtime. You know what I mean? And no matter if I'm playing in NBA or if I'm playing in Drew League or if there's nobody watching.

Absolutely.

That's, you know, the passion I have towards the game and that's how, If you that way, that's what it's called for.

I don't care who you playing against, you know what I mean?

But that's the beauty of the game in itself, to be able to bring that side outta you to be a complete competitor. I don't know nobody who isn't a competitor that don't show that fire or that passion, you know what I mean?

That's just the beauty of the game.

Absolutely. Do you think there's something that I can do, other players can do. But do you think that there is something to where these leagues can be used? Shy League, Drew League, I think Baltimore has a league.

Seattle.

Seattle, Jamal's league. They just restarted the Moneyball League back in Michigan. What can be done with the NBA and partnering with these leagues? Because you get, Seattle, you get Jamal, you get Dejounte. Jordan Poole went up there and played once. Tony Roden, who was an NBA player.

You get— Zach, I think Zach Levine.

Zach Levine. Paulo, now be playing. You get all of these pros, the Miami run. You get all of these pros. What can the NBA do with these leagues that can help these communities that they're in? Because all of these communities, like, yeah, Seattle's nice, but Seattle got the slums too. LA's a nice city. We all know LA got slums. Miami's nice. They got slums. Baltimore, cool city, slums. What can the NBA do with these leagues and help and reach these communities? Because I think there's something could be done, but I don't know exactly what that thing is.

Right.

I think even before you even include the NBA, I think it's on us. Just like last week, it was just a text message from, I got from Bron about playing in the Drew League. And look what we did in a matter of a couple days.

Absolutely.

You know, it's nothing but even, I think even that night, I think I seen Trae Young put something up on his story saying, you know, two hoopers just going out there playing for the love of the game and bringing out, you know, the fans. That's all it takes.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely. It's just one call, one text message away to be able to start this, you know, cult following that we had. Think about when the NBA didn't set nothing up during the lockout.

Absolutely.

That was all on us. You know what I mean?

That was just players coming together saying, hey, let's do this.

This weekend, hey, let's do this. And I think the more we do that and the more attention we put towards that again, it's so much that could be done in those communities, bro. 'Cause I'm, I get home that day after playing in Julie and I'm like, this is on ESPN, NBA TV, popping up on my app on ESPN on the phone. It was even on the NBA app.

Yeah.

You see what I'm saying? It's crazy.

You know what I mean?

Bro, I had people texting me at the game about the game. And I'm sitting there like, but how, like, are you in this gym somewhere? Like, how are you talking about?

Right.

I didn't realize it was on the NBA app until I left. I'm like, I started seeing like screenshots and stuff. And then Stelly, who you know, it's like, bro, this is on the NBA app. This is crazy.

On the NBA app, bro.

Like, it's amazing. So think about the power we have to be able to help these communities. So it's on us. It's just helping out one another. Even if we set up here and say, all right, let's get 5 guys from LA to play against 5 guys from Seattle. You know what I mean? Like just make it an annual thing, you know, once a year, ain't gotta be something every week. You just do something once a summer. You know what I mean? We go to Seattle, play against Jamal and X amount of people and bring out somebody, a special, a special, other player that's from somewhere else. You know what I mean? And compete, like it's all on us, you know what I mean? And then you know how things work when you start to do like that, other opportunities and bigger opportunities come that wanna be a part of that to be able to help. So I think it just start with us.

That's a beautiful thing. By the way, Adam, I hope you listening to this.

For sure.

I think the NBA has found a way and gotta give Adam a lot of credit in what he's done since he's taken over as commissioner. To dominate every month of the year except August.

Yeah.

There's your August Adam.

Yeah.

Get some guys, guys can play these games in these cities. It's charity, it's for these communities, it's giving back, it's what the NBA stands for. That's what the NBA is all about. There's your August Adam. That's how we take over August.

That's an amazing pitch right there for sure.

But I think that'll be great. But I'm watching this game and people are hitting me like, yo, are they gonna lose? I'm like, it's no chance they losing this game. At any point during that game, did you feel like y'all was gonna lose that game?

Not at all. Not at all.

Not at all. Not at all.

I didn't think so either. And you know what? When they hit me, I said, "It's no chance." Because my team Cleese has this saying. He always say, "A pro is a pro and a Joe is a Joe." Right. At the end of the day. No disrespect to nobody, but a pro is a pro for a reason. So I'm watching the game and they like, "Yo, they gonna win, they gonna win." I said, "Nah, I'm gonna tell you how this is gonna go. They gonna shut they water off. They not gonna be able to get a stop down the stretch." and them boys gonna fold down and stretch 'cause that pressure gonna grow.

Yes.

And sure enough, y'all had a stretch where y'all put like 10, 11 stops in a row together. You saw the intensity pick up. What it reminded me of was like an All-Star Game where like the first half—

Exactly.

Guys going through it. And then the third quarter it picks up and the fourth quarter intensity through the roof. And that's what it reminded me of. But so y'all pick up the intensity, you and Bron take over on the offensive end. But I'm gonna tell you one sign when I knew like, yep, they ain't ready for the moment. The big white kid, not sure what his name was. He had, he played great game. He did, he did. He was busting y'all ass. Did not miss a free throw the whole game.

Yes.

He missed 6 straight free throws in the 4th quarter. I'm like, ah, there's pressure getting in these boys now.

Yep.

And I don't think people understand, like, there's pressure on you going into that game. There's pressure on Bron going into that game. I don't think people understand that.

Not at all. They don't. They don't understand the magnitude of that. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

Think about it. If we lost, we gotta live with that and hear that whole narrative.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely. And you know, the amount of games I've been in, obviously stuff with him, it's like, you know the moment, we understand the time on the clock. You know how it go in a game where, you know, all right, 4 minutes, come on. We know it's kind of like the 2-minute rule in football. Tom Brady know exactly what he gonna do. You know what I mean?

So it came down to that moment.

And at the same time, I'm glad it went that way 'cause it made it more exciting for the people. You know what I mean?

Like that's what was dope. Yeah, we could have went out there and won by 40, but it just gonna turn into, you know, people just trying to dunk their lives, whatever. I love that it turned out that way. It was very theatrical and, you know, an action movie ain't good if it ain't got no explosions in it. So, hey, that's just what it is.

That part.

Yeah.

I like that. And moving forward, I wanted to speak about that at length. 'Cause like I said, I thought that was such a huge moment for basketball. I thought that was a huge moment for the city. I thought that was a huge moment for the culture. And I appreciated that. And I want people to understand that wasn't there, what that was, what it looked like, and hear it from you because Like I can say all I want, I didn't play. You know what I'm saying? So to hear that from you, I want people to understand. And I also wanna say thank you because what it, to both of y'all, you and Bron, what it did for me was it woke up something in me.

Yeah.

And like that thing has not been awakened in me in years. And so I appreciate that because That is a part of the game that I think we all start to get older and we like, ah, I'm not playing in no more summer league. Ah, I'm not playing in no more pickup. I'm not like, I'm gonna just work out and get my body ready and rest. And it woke up something in me that I needed.

And think about you saying that and how many other of our colleagues probably felt the same way. You know what I mean?

Like it was no way in hell I would've missed that game.

You know what I mean? Just for the motivation to get, like, come on, man. None of us too good to not be able to go hoop. You know what I mean? It's like, this is what we do. Think about it, man. I remember going, playing outside when it was pouring down raining with nobody out there.

You know what I mean?

Just to play basketball. And it's like, as long as we got this opportunity to be able to play, we should just have fun and get back to that element of enjoying the game. You know what I mean? I think it got so caught up in it being—

Yeah.

Such a business aspect of something. And it's like, yo, it was a time where we played this thing every single day with no complaint and didn't get a dollar from it. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

We didn't have a highlight to go back and watch from it.

You know what I mean?

Fact.

But we did it every single day. So that was what was the cool part of just, you know, showing that Bron in his 20th year still coming out here playing like he's 16, you know, not worried about a missed shot or, somebody picking them up or getting crossed over. The same with me. You know what I mean? It's like, that's the beauty of it. Even the guys we played against, you don't think they went home, told their girlfriend or did whatever and felt great about themselves being able to compete against two great players?

That's what it's all about, man.

No doubt. So you headed into year 14.

Yeah, man.

Which is absolutely insane. Congratulations. That's an incredible accomplishment, by the way.

Thank you.

After year 12, lot of doubt, lot of, oh man, he don't shoot the 3, the mid-range is a losing shot, blah, blah, blah. Now in saying that, everybody say the mid-range is a losing shot and then that's the only shot you see taken in the playoffs.

Yeah.

But they say all regular season it's a losing shot.— a lot of doubt, which I don't understand for someone that's accomplished so much, that's proven so much over and over and over again. But you faced a ton of doubt. Free agency, to me, didn't go for you how I think it should have went.

Right, right.

The interest around the league for a superstar on the market, it wasn't what it should have been. I feel like you channel that and you go into Chicago your first year, second team All-NBA, All-Star again. What was last year like for you reestablishing DeMar DeRozan? We're excited to introduce our new friends at the Draymond Green Show, Ventero Collective. Ventero is a premium lifestyle brand based in San Diego, California. Carrying some of the hottest sunglasses in the game. If you don't know them yet, probably wanna check them out. They're providing a 20% discount to the listeners of this show. All you have to do is use the code Dray, D-R-A-Y, to get 20% off your sunglasses. Ventiuro designs all of their products in-house. They source their own materials and ship ship them directly to you. As you know, I'm a big fan of glasses. I usually keep some glasses on. And these glasses right here, very good glasses. I've actually dropped them a few times and they stand the test of time. But they're also, they got good weight. And if you know a good pair of sunglasses, they gotta have some good weight on them. You don't want them to get too flimsy. Starts to mess up. So both of these.

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See, this a dope thing that, you know, people out there don't know. We've had these conversations. We know it's been plenty of times you called me throughout the season was like, hell yeah, fuck yeah. You know what I mean? It was never surprising to you. So it's this obviously my first time speaking up on a topic, which is, I think it'd be very insightful. I think, You know, for me, my 3 years in San Antonio was such a, you know, it was such a question mark for me of trying to figure out the next phase of myself. You know, being in a place for so long, obviously Toronto, and feeling like, you know, the franchise, all of a sudden you get knocked down back to humble beginnings and have to figure yourself out as a player, you know. Doubts come in, questions come in, especially when all you see is a certain type of narrative that follow you. Can't do this, this, this, this, this, this, on down the line, you know? And it takes a toll on you, you know, because, you know, me, I'm not the most outspoken person to go back and forth on debating myself with somebody else. So it put me in a mindset of, you know, how can I figure this thing out within me? And change the narrative in time. You know, it used to be moments where overnight I wish I could do something right now to change this whole narrative. But I told myself my whole time in San Antonio, whenever I get my next opportunity, I'ma make it make sense why I was in this position for 3 years being in San Antonio. And that summer come up going into free agency, like you said, it didn't go as planned. You know, it was that kind of brought so much doubt in for me and put me in a dark place because I started to question like, you know, all right, where am I going now? What player am I going to be? You know what I mean? Like so many of these questions started to creep in and, you know, a lot of people didn't realize, you know, big names always kind of sign in the first day or two. You know, I think I would, a couple days into free agency was still such a question mark, you know, was I gonna go somewhere for the 1-year deal? Was this, was I gonna take the minimum? This, this, the narrative of it was such a, it put me in a fucked up place, honestly. Like, and I remember through that whole time, it was 3, 4 days in a row. I didn't leave out the room. I didn't see the sunset. I didn't see the sun come up. I sat in a room and just being like, it put, I was depressed. It put me in a depressed mindset because I didn't know what the fuck was gonna happen. You know, was I gonna come to LA? That fell through. That didn't happen. Was this, was this? You seeing guys sign other places. Everybody hitting me like, "Man, what you gonna do? What you gonna do?" And there was certain moments where I had no fucking clue what I was gonna do. You know, and when the Chicago thing came around and I made that happen, It was such a relief, but at the same time it angered me and put me in a very frustrating mental of like, fuck this. I'm about to demolish anything you gotta say about me. I'm not gonna say nothing. I'm gonna just work my ass off and I'm gonna prove, not just for myself, for anybody who feel like they get counted out, they get doubted or get told that that they can't do something. My whole career has kind of been based off that, but I never let it, you know, bring me completely down. It knocked me down, but I got back up. And for me, that moment of going to Chicago, I just told myself, this is a new opportunity. I'm gonna make the most out of it in every type of, every way, you know?

And I remember, shit, every time I did something, you would call me.

Every time it was like—

Yeah.

"Keep going, keep going." You know what I mean? It was those conversations of like, you know, my peers see it and they understand it. You know what I mean? Going, I remember when I signed with Chicago, it was the worst free agent signing. It was like, that's what you feel about me?

Absolutely.

So it was like, it was a vengeance out, not just for myself, but just for anybody that get put in that situation because it's so easy to fall victim to the bullshit that they put on you.

Absolutely.

That is so false. You know, you could lose confidence. You could doubt yourself. You could feel like maybe they right. When it's like, nah, I don't care how much older I'm getting. It's all about how much you put in, how much you love, and how much you willing to sacrifice to keep getting better. And that was my whole approach, my mentality going into last season.

Such a beautiful thing to watch. And you spoke on a couple things. Depression, your mental that I want to get into. But it's very interesting to me because like you said, I feel like I've lived this with you all year from last year free agency and talking to you every day like, yo, you good? Yo, what about this? What about that? To then the conversation turning like, yo, come to the Warriors. And you like, fuck no, I'm not coming there.

Right, right.

I'm not coming to play with y'all. I'm like, bruh, But you come to the Warriors, we can win a championship if you come to the Warriors. He didn't come.

He did say that.

We still won a championship, but he didn't come. However, I had to throw that one out there. Like you said, the thing that really pissed me off most, and aside from our relationship that made me call every day, Or every time you did something was like, and you just hit on it. Are you gonna take a minimum? People were like, are you going to take a minimum? I mean, even when I called talking about you should come to the Warriors, I was talking about no minimum. Yeah.

A minimum?

That's baffling to me for someone who's still athletic, still scored a basketball, don't get in no trouble, true professional, in a bucket, a minimum. The disrespect for me just didn't sit well. And the disrespect was coming from people who never done it, ain't gonna do it, can't do it, won't do it. And most importantly, Don't know it. I'm so sick of people that don't know basketball that pick up a stat sheet and look at the stat sheet and say, "Oh man." Like they'll look at the stat sheet for you and say, "Oh, he had 27 points, but he didn't shoot no threes." Right. He's a bad player.

Yeah.

That's what was spirited for me. Like, "Oh no, you gotta destroy everybody." And to then watch you come out and do that, to watch you spend more than half of the season top 3 in MVP race, that's a different thing. And to get the Bulls back to the playoffs, regardless of the injury. See, the thing that made your season so great to me was— Draymond Green. Zach was in and outta the lineup due to injury. Vooch was in, or COVID stuff. Everybody dealt with that. Vooch was in and outta the lineup, injury, COVID stuff. Caruso missed a bunch of the season. Lonzo missed majority of the season. And the one constant were you. And I thought that that was very special. I thought— Yeah. You looked like DeMar DeRozan again. And what most people don't know, that's coming off the heels of your father passing away. It's a different thing to deal with. How could you channel that? Like, and especially with the LA thing, right? Like you, if you get to stay home in LA, mom's is here, everything's just a little better. That seemed like it's gonna happen and it don't. Another thing, right? How were you able to channel all of that into being DeMar DeRozan?

Man, you know, I'd be lying to you to tell you that I didn't have days where, you know, it just got extremely heavy. You know, you kind of just shut down and take a moment to yourself to kind of regroup. But I always just told myself, my favorite saying to myself was always, always make something bad that happened make sense down the line, whatever that may be. That's all I used to tell myself. Let me make this negative make sense down the line. And I always told myself whenever I got down, whenever I felt a certain type of way. So everything I, rather if it was being a, trying to be a better son, be a better father, be a better friend, be a better basketball player. It was always trying to find different elements of just trying to be better to make sense of the negative that I'm going through, you know? And I just stuck to it, bro. I ain't gonna lie. I just stuck to it. I had days here and there, but I just stuck to it. And every time I got that opportunity and I trust everything I put into it, and I knew nobody suffered like I did.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely. Because when I never screamed out, I never lashed out, you know, I never wanted nobody to feel sorry for me. I never threw a pity party, nothing. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

Nothing. So it was always me telling myself, no one suffered like I suffered. So everything else is gonna be easy.

100%.

And that's just how I took the approach. You know what I mean? And that goes for anybody that feel like they going through something. You're not alone, but it's always a way you could channel that that emotion, that negative feeling that you may carry into something positive, as long as you make it make sense. You know what I mean? And that was just my mental, that was just my approach.

And to this day, I still take the same approach.

It's beautiful and it's inspiring. Your father passed away and you continue on. And I think, you know, we've all seen death around us. I've seen death around me. As long as I can remember. And to me, I always say, people hit you up for a week, you know, people around for a week or two, like, "Oh, how you doing?" Then they just go away as if the problem don't go away. How are you? Like, that don't go away. You don't get another father.

Right, right.

How are you? Like, how are you dealing with that? Because you're still dealing with that. That don't change.

I think when I lost my dad, it opened me up to accept being, you know, in a sense, vulnerable. Vulnerable, accepting life in a different, you know, light. Because, you know, you start to realize, you know, you know the saying, everybody say nothing is promised, but you get a different sense of it.

You know, when something of that magnitude hits you, you know, and you know, my dad taught me everything. My dad was, you know, everything. He was the only man I feared. You know what I mean? Wow.

That's deep, by the way.

You feel me?

That's very deep.

He was the only man I feared. And when I say fear, it was never nothing in a negative light, but it was always, I don't want to let you down. You know what I mean? Like, damn, I don't want to let my dad down or damn, I don't want him to, No, I did this. I don't want him to be mad at me. I don't want this, I don't want this. So it pushed me to a level of always consistently being focused as much as I can so I can make my dad proud. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

Just because he looked at me in a certain light as being his youngest son, and always wanted to honor that as much as I could. So losing him, It kind of, you know, gave me a different sense of empathy towards life and start to value and look at things with more of an acceptance of understanding that, you know, this thing is short, you know, and you don't give your all or put your all into being a good friend, a good person, whatever it may be, what you doing it for? You know, and that's one thing that he helped me with now and let me know when you go through something, it's okay. Like it's okay to go through something or have a bad stretch or something or be in a stuck place because that's not gonna last forever. What's gonna last forever? Well, for the lifetime, it's me not being able to see my father again. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

So a bad week ain't gonna last, a bad month ain't gonna last. It's just, so long as you working on yourself and you trying to better yourself in those moments, It's okay to not be okay, to be okay.

Facts.

You know what I mean? And that's one thing that opened me up and helped me kind of thrive to be a better individual, for real.

No doubt. You just said something and I responded. I said, that's deep. And I wanna touch on that. That's the only man that I fear. And that hits home with me for a very specific reason. Specific reason. Number one, my grandfather, when he passed away, like, that's who I, that was the man that I feared. And it, I never found that again in my life, right? And so I felt like because I never found that again in my life, there's some issues.

For sure.

That arose in my life that could have been prevented and would have been prevented had I had that man still in my life that I feared. My mom, to this day, I still fear my mom.

Yeah.

Like I sometimes get nervous when she call. Like if when she would call when I was younger and I'd be like, "Oh man, I'm in trouble." I still sometimes get that feeling like, "Oh man, she about to get at me." There are things that I may would have done in this life right now, currently today, like my daily life that I don't do because I know how upset she would be. She would never let me live it down. She disowned me as a son. And it's not that I would do something that then that I won't do now because I'm afraid of her, but also from a standpoint of letting her down. Mm-hmm. And it keeps that sense of what's acceptable and what's not. Because in this world we live in, some things that are accepted aren't really acceptable. And my mom don't play that. And it holds me in a certain area. How, like, how can you find that again? Because I think for me, it took me a long time to find it. And I never found it again, like, oh, I'm afraid of this man. You just found, I found different people that I could trust that will hold me accountable in certain areas. My wife being one of them that has helped elevate me. How have you found yourself adjusting in that light?

Bro, exactly what you said. When I lost my dad, like I lost myself for a while. That's crazy you said that because I haven't had a conversation with somebody who put it in the same terms that, you just put it and you hit it on the head because when I lost my dad, I lost myself for a long time. Like, you know, I put myself in a lot of shit where if he was here, I never would've put myself in, you know what I mean?

Absolutely.

And you know, we've had conversations to where you had to tell me something from a brother's standpoint that I sat there and listened. I've never been in that situation. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

I've never had to deal with another person or me being accepting of another man telling me about myself. And we had conversations where we had brother-to-brother conversation. I heard you out. You know what I mean?

100%.

In losing my dad, that's kind of what, going back to what I was saying before, that's what kind of opened you up to, be able to be accepting of a real friend. You know what I mean? Yep. Be accepting of someone who close to you, allowing them to help you. You know what I mean? 'Cause I always felt like I didn't need help because this the only person I need to hear something from is my dad. Ain't no other man tell me nothing. It's my dad, man. He raised me. You know what I mean?

Facts.

From top to bottom. So nobody else could tell me nothing. So when I lost him, you know, you begin to be in search of those elements that can help replace what you feel like you lost. You know what I mean? That started, and I think that's why our bond is so close how it is, because we was able to do that. That's something I probably never even told you, but now you know, you know what I mean?

I appreciate that.

It just be dope shit like that to where it really becomes a blessing when you lose somebody, something else replace it in, in whatever way you may need it. You know what I mean? But you hit it on the head, bro. When you lose something that stops so much other stuff from happening because you care about that one person thought or what they may say to you, you know, I lost that and I lost myself for a long time after that, for a long time. So at the same time, you know, that's the beauty of life. You know, you constantly growing, you know, nobody is never— Mm-hmm. Nobody ever hit the ceiling. This is a forever thing that you have to figure out. You know what I mean? Nobody got the complete answer. So yeah, that's crazy. You said that, bro.

No, that's a beautiful thing. And I think it's a good segue. You've been very outspoken about mental health for years before, for lack of a better term, before it was cool to speak on mental health. Like it's cool now, Not that it's a cool thing. It's cool, it's accepted.

Right, right.

You spoke out about it when it wasn't accepted.

Yeah.

When it was like, "Oh man, you just using that, you know, to get by." Or, you know, "That's an excuse," or this, that, and other. How has your journey been with your mental health and going through the things you spoke about And specifically, you spoke about being depressed and already having mental health struggles. Did that help you with the current thing that sent you into that depression?

For sure. Because before you accept and understand what depression really is, you hide from it. And you kind of worsen yourself unknowingly, you know, and you find certain ways, you know, you can't understand like why I'm so mad, why I'm so frustrated, why I'm taking this, why I'm lashing out on this, why I'm taking something that happened out, happened yesterday out on this person that have nothing to do with yesterday's issue.

You know what I mean? Mm-hmm.

Before I was that person to where I used to push everybody away. I didn't want to talk. But once you identify it, you start to understand why you feeling that way. You'll catch on to it and you kind of write down your thoughts and your feelings of why you feeling like that or what triggered it. Get a better understanding on that so you don't worsen the feeling. You know what I mean? Or you may just call up somebody you close to and have a conversation about it and get it off your chest. Now you can go on about your day and not feel so down as you usually would be, you know? So for me, it just helped me identify and find inspiration in other people's story as well. When you look at somebody that could be going through something that way worse than what I just thought my problem was, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And it's like, I'm tripping on having a flat tire when this person, you know, just lost somebody close to him to a sickness or something. You know what I mean? So you kind of balancing out and it's all about understanding, understanding the feeling, understanding yourself and understanding what triggers you, you know? And I didn't have none of that understanding before where you would just hide and run from your problems and you just stacking, you just stackpiling them unknowingly until you just lash out and explode.

How did you get to the point to where you were able to identify depression, to where you were able to identify mental health struggles? Did you see someone? Was it something you studied? How did you get to that point?

I think I just, I ended up crashing. I just ended up crashing. Like I just hit a wall. And when I hit that wall, I think I was just so down and out. And I just wanted to understand where this feeling coming from, you know, you start to backtrack and understand, you know, why I find, you know, comfort in darkness sometimes. And this, this is one thing I learned, learned in therapy. We was talking about my dad one, one moment. And I got, I got a tattoo. I got a tattoo on me from, from Batman, what Bane said, basically, you know, I was born in darkness, you know, that quote, right? And it was something I found out about me being, having such a comfort with darkness was when I was young, my dad always used to lock me in the closet and I used to kick the door, like screaming, ahh, panicking, everything. Till one day he threw me in a closet, it was dark. And I didn't kick, I didn't knock on the door. I didn't tell him, let me out, anything. To where in that moment, he never put me in the closet again because in that moment I realized darkness ain't nothing to me. So it became such a comfort to where it becomes such a systematic, I forgot what they called it, systematic desensitization of a feeling.

Mm-hmm.

And Read that one again.

It's systematic desist— What was it? I gotta find a word. It's systematic desiccitation. Basically where you put yourself through something so much to where it don't even affect you anymore. And him putting me in a dark closet so many times, it was nothing to me. So I became so comfortable with darkness that I put that, with chaos to where I'm carrying chaos like it's nothing. But that's not good for your mind as a kid growing up. You know what I mean? Think about where we come from. You see so much violence, so much, it becomes such a norm when this shit ain't normal. This shit shouldn't be normal. You know what I mean? We wouldn't let our kids watch a certain movie because it have a certain amount of violence in it. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

But when you live through that and it becomes such a norm, that isn't right. So when I finally crashed and hit a wall, you know, you backtrack on all these things that you thought was nothing that you carried into your adulthood. Think about it. We come from nothing. All of a sudden you giving us money. Now we have a lot of money. Now we don't know what to do with the money.

Yep.

Now we gotta, now we figuring, now it's everybody got a handout. Now everybody get mad when you want to give them something. Everybody, everybody, you inherit everyone. People's problems before you even deal or understand what your own problems is or that you've been carrying. So for me, it was one of those things that I crashed and burned and I kind of just took a layout on everything that I've been through. Then I just got to a point to where like, why should I feel a way expressing myself knowing I went through all this shit before I even got here? I would never feel less of a man. I made it out of Compton, California.

Facts.

Why nobody could make me feel soft or anything. And that was just that moment where it hit me to where I gotta say something because I'm carrying so much on my emotions, on my shoulders that I know so many other people carry. Think about how many people we know hide behind the money, the glamor, the false persona of this whole shit and don't even know themselves until it's too late.

Mm-hmm.

And For me, I never wanted to be that person. I always told myself when I retire, I don't want to be that old grumpy ex-basketball player with a lot of money. I always told myself that I don't want to be that old motherfucker that just sits up mad at everybody, but got a bunch of money. Cause I didn't figure out or indulge in and be vulnerable and understand myself to help other people. I always told myself that once I came out with being depressed was I just want to, when I retire, I want to be happy. Like I just want to sit back and be happy and enjoy everything that I went through and start a new chapter of my life and enjoy that next journey, you know? And that's just my perception of, you know, me coming out of being depressed.

You're currently working on a project around mental health. Can you share what that project is, why you wanted to do it? And what you hope to get out of it. Yeah.

I came up with a project of basically having one-on-one conversations such as this, but more with an intimate setting, more so, you know, imagine if the cameras wasn't here, nobody was here, just a blunt in-depth conversation that we may have. Think about the conversations we had on the phone, if those was recorded, how—

Absolutely.

How that could inspire or help someone else that's going through something similar. You know what I mean? And it's basically one of those, you know, blunt conversations that you would have when nobody else around, you know, and being open. And obviously, you know, our relationship and the conversations that we, the phone conversations we had, putting that, you know, on front street to be able to show our vulnerability and the things that we go through and show how imperfect we are.

Mm-hmm.

But at the same time, we striving to be better every single day. And that's what it's about because people look at us in such a light of superheroes. Sometimes we gotta break ourselves down and show that we the same as you. Yes.

You know what I mean?

And that goes a long way when you could see us in that light and have conversation with, you know, you got a hell of a story, fuck basketball. Before we even got there, the story of the trials, the ups and downs of the things you've been through that made you who you are, give a better understanding of, You know, when I, you know, it trips me out when I watch you play and people look at, "Oh, why Draymond acting like that?" It's something in him with, if he didn't have that, he wouldn't be where he at today.

That's a fact. You see what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm.

And you should be more intrigued and wanna understand what's that that brings that fire outta him.

Absolutely.

Because maybe you have it too, but you just don't know how to unlock it. Are you so ashamed because you care what somebody else think? You don't wanna unlock that passion that you have towards something. You know what I mean? You limiting yourself. Like that's how I look at people and being able to have sit-downs over a dinner table and, you know, dissect one another, you know, goes a long way. You know what I mean? 'Cause I know when I look, think about when we grew up, you couldn't see interviews of your favorite players.

You know what I mean? Yeah.

The only time you seen them is on TV or if they speak after a game or something. But imagine if we seen our favorite players say, yo, I went through this. This is how I got through it. You know, really break themselves down to be vulnerable. You know what I mean? Like I remember I used to see like certain players. I remember when I first heard Nick Van Exel talk, right? I was like, he sound like that? Because you watch him for years, but you don't know how he talk. Absolutely.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm like, damn, he talk like that?

Man, he not from LA. You know what I mean? Like, so I look at it from the standpoint of when we break ourselves down and have real life conversation, bro, that goes so far because they just see us hoop every single day throughout a season. Talk about basketball throughout a season where it's like, yo, we human beings, we all have a fucking incredible story that we could share. And I just wanna put that on the front street to be able to do that with some of my favorite players that, not even players, people that I find inspiration from, you know, in all angles. So that's what the show gonna be all about. And I think it's gonna be dope, you know, especially with the, obviously you gonna be one, but you know, the other people that I have in mind of sitting down talking with, it's gonna be special.

I'm excited to do it. Like I said, number one, I just never take these opportunities for granted just to sit and chop it up. But also to, like you said, to indulge in those conversations and more importantly, for people to see you. Like to see you in a light that they haven't seen because like to them you're super quiet, which you are, but when you have a relationship with somebody, you're not. And so it's almost like coming out of your shell and I think it's so on point. Like you're going into your 14th year, but you're only 32 years old. And same age as me, I'm going into year 11. I did my bid, it's cool. But I felt like this, you know, and it's all, I'm literally sitting here talking to you right now and it's all tying together for me. 'Cause I feel like this year has been such a year of growth. Yeah. Grow for you. And so I'm sitting here looking at it now and it's tying together for me. It's like, "Pops, free agency, go crazy." And I felt like, and watching you this year on the court, you were coming out of a shell. Like you stepped into, "I'm really one of them guys." Not, "I'm really good in this league." That's a different thing. Like you've been really good for a long time. You stepped into this year like, "No, I'm one of them." And I don't think people's been trying to put you there. People's been trying to put you in like this subcategory of like good players. And we know like there's that category in the league of like guys that's really good, but not quite. And I feel like you finally like, "Oh no, I'm gonna show y'all that I am here." And now you're coming with the project and like— Yeah. I feel like it's all tying together for you and like you're coming out of your shell. And I think it's a beautiful thing to see.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's dope. I mean, I'm just a firm believer in just timing too. You know what I mean? Like, I know a lot of people say, "I don't do this, I don't do this." But I just always believe in just like the universe putting what's necessary in front of you to accomplish something. You know what I mean? I never been the one to force anything. You know what I mean? Same way, If you look at how I play, I treat my life the same way. You ain't gonna force me to do anything I don't wanna do. You know what I mean? I'm gonna take my time. I'm gonna get to my spot. I'm gonna make it happen when it need to happen, how it need to happen.

Facts. Before we get outta here, I wanna end this on a couple basketball questions. I know that conversation got a little heavy. Hope everyone enjoyed it, but spoke on you, Zach, congratulations to Zach. Yeah, congrats, congrats. Incredible contract. Caruso, Vooch, Lonzo. That's who I view as the core 5.

Yeah.

And y'all will be healthy and whole this year. What is that next? What needs to happen outside of health for y'all to take that next step? Now getting in the playoff, like I think everybody thought y'all was really serious contender in the Eastern Conference and then all the injuries and stuff started happening. What needs to happen for y'all to take that next step to get the Chicago Bulls franchise back to where we know that franchise once was?

I think for us, you know, as a group, as a core, Many of us wasn't together much, but at the same time, the experience and, you know, the second half of the season, we gotta know what that feel like going in training camp. You know, we kind of fell apart. We lost ourselves obviously through health, but regardless, you know, it, you know, I think I told one of the young guys after All-Star break, I said, this is the moment when you see what teams are serious. And he didn't know what I meant by that. And for us to, you know, hit the wall that we hit, you know, showed that, you know, we wasn't ready for adversity. You know, we had so much success so early to where you can lose sight of how hard the shit really is to really compete.

Absolutely.

And a couple guys, you know, even Zach, you know, he missed a game in the playoffs, but that was his first playoff run and him not being healthy. I know that frustrated him. So him having that extra fire and him understanding how hard it was just to get to the playoffs. I think for us, it's just the understanding and knowing that this shit is completely hard. That is hard. Like nothing is gonna come easy. This shit is a grind every single day. And that mindset you gotta carry, you can't be satisfied with a 2-game win streak, 5-game, whatever it may be. This shit is a long journey and it's hard. And you gotta treat it like that every single day. Think about y'all. I look at y'all and I, that y'all team this year may be one of my favorite teams of, in history simply because, which I was faced up against, everybody doubted y'all. How Klay came back for being out the amount of time he was out. But every time y'all went out there and played, that shit was extremely hard. And for me as a basketball junkie, that's how I look at it. These motherfuckers knew this shit was gonna be hard and they embraced it and accepted it. Every single day. And that's the beauty of this game because everybody gets to a point to where, damn, this shit hard. A game or two, they fold. Every single one of y'all game was extremely hard until that shit was over. And a lot of teams lose sight of that. You know, you play 50, 60 games like this shit hard, man, fuck it. You know what I mean? Series tied 3-3. This shit hard, man, fuck it. They got it. You know what I mean? It's like, that's the beauty of this game is those who accept it being hard and want it to be tough because I wanna prove to myself I could get over this shit.

Absolutely.

And that's what it was. And I think y'all was very indicative of that. And I think when you get a group of guys to buy in that way, you get outcomes like that. No matter what somebody say, y'all the favorites or not. You know what I mean? It's those teams that win it.

For sure. I think honestly that's why I have so much gratitude or have so much gratitude. It's because it was hard. Yeah. And like the things you just said, it wasn't supposed to happen. As hard as it was, you could see teams get to that point and break.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, and although it was still very hard for us and like, I feel like this playoff run, I went through everything I could possibly go through. I went through great times. I went through awful times. I went through the middle. But it was something different about this one and the challenge that it was. Like, so if you put it in context, like the first championship we won, after that regular season, I knew like, yo, we got the best team.

Yeah, yeah.

But you didn't know how to win a championship then. Yeah, yeah. You know, so that's that one. 2017 and 2018, it was literally just a matter of getting to the day that we can win. Once we got to that date, I knew we'd win. This year was different with all the doubt. Like you said, with Klay coming back, he comes back, the day he come back, I go down. The day I come back, Steph go down. It's like— Mm-hmm. This ain't supposed, I started to think this ain't supposed to happen for us. You know, like this ain't, it's not the year. I even told one of my homeboys like, I'm gonna probably see you right after the first round. 'Cause I just don't see it happening for us. And so it was a very special year and hard as it was, it made it the most special.

Right.

'Cause it was the hardest one we had to go through. Chicago, every time I play there, I hear that music and that star lineup and it does something to me. I feel like Michael Jordan about to run out of the tunnel. Do y'all get that sense in playing there and getting that every single day or is it not quite? For sure.

Yeah, no question. It trips me out even just driving there, bro. Like parking outside. I remember just seeing, all the highlights, Jordan back in the day, parking outside, you know, like, so for me, every time I go there, bro, I feel it. Like, I'm not even gonna lie. Like, you just, you just feel like you gotta, you gotta bring it every single night, especially for those fans, man. And it's crazy. I was telling somebody, I think I was telling my, I forgot who I was telling, my partners, this the other day. I said, The moment where I really realized like you gotta bring it every single night in that arena. I never spoken this like on nothing media and then I think we was 4 or 5 games into the season. We was playing the Knicks and I took the game winner, I airballed and I just felt like, dog, I just felt the whole vibe of everything. Like, what the fuck? Like, what was that? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I felt like I disrespected the aura of what these fans is used to seeing from obviously MJ hitting game winners. And you know, you live for those moments and to be in that moment for the first time, my 4th, 5th season in the game. And I take that shot, it was like, I told myself I would never be in that situation again, to let that same feeling happen for these fans. I swear to God, bro. I never told that. It was that game to where it was like, every shot I take in the clutch, I'm gonna make it count every single time. So you look back at all the moments that I had in that arena, it was more so like, yo, this the ghost of— like, I'm trying to inherit the ghost of Michael, shooting his fadeaway with the clock running down.

Absolutely.

I carried that to heart after that moment because you felt it from the fans. You felt it on social media when it was like, yeah, you taking that. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

It was like, nah, like nah. So that's how I carry it every time I walk in there. You see, you know, you see Scottie Michael, you see Bob Love, you see these jerseys up there and it's like, and you hear this music when you come out, it's the same, you know what I mean? It's the same thing. You gotta live up to it. You got to, you got to.

So there you have it. You were wondering where those game winners steal from. My man, by the way, don't get so cocky and give us the one leg game winner again, man. Put that back in your bag, man.

I had to.

But in speaking of game winners, and I think this is a great way for us to end, I'm gonna end this with a trivia question. Actually, on clutch shot making. I'm gonna give you the first one. You have the most clutch shots made since 2012 with 64. Who are the next 4? Since 2012, so that's my rookie year.

Yeah, Steph.

Actually, number 2. With 62, by the way.

How many I got? 64. Steph.

For those of you that don't know, by the way, clutch shots is in the last 5 minutes of a game.

I seen it before.

Or overtime. Hold on, I seen this before. Steph, Steph, Dame.

Dame has 61.

How many you said it is?

There's 4 more after you, just the next 4 alone.

And I named 2 more, right?

You named Steph and Dame, there's 2 more. Give you a hint, they play on the same team.

KD, Kyrie?

Eh. Wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. Oh, it gotta be Bron and Russ.

Russ got 61 as well. Draymond Green got 55. Bron got 55.

Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

I think this is a very interesting thing because two of these guys on this list, one sitting right here and Russ, the disrespect is unbelievable.

Oh wow.

Yeah. And all you gotta do, you can check stats like this. Like this is a real stat. Like guys hitting in the fourth quarter, guys don't do that. Then you could check the tape too, which most of, that's another topic. Everybody can't check the tape, we know that. But this is a very interesting stat for y'all. Learn, like, stop chasing these disrespectful hits, man. You got real people, real hoopers, real legends, real Hall of Famers doing this. Appreciate it, 'cause it don't last forever.

It don't last, and it's not an accident.

It's not.

It's not a coincidence or it's not an accident.

This man wake up every day, 4 o'clock in the morning working out. I ain't doing that. I'm gonna work out at 9. But I honestly, I wanna say thank you for coming on, bro. It is an honor and a pleasure to sit here and talk with you. 'Cause like I said, I know not many people can say they get a conversation like this from you. And I don't take that for granted. To everybody out there listening, I hope you enjoyed it. We thank you, brother, from the bottom of my heart.

Thank you, man.

Thank you. Jackson, producer, we've been at this thing for almost a year and it's been great. And it's been great because of guys like yourself coming on and opening up and sharing your story. Because ultimately that's what the fans wanna hear. So I thank you, bro.

Man, thank you, bro.

Appreciate it. Absolutely. That's a wrap. Peace.

Peace.