DeMarcus Cousins on "sh**hole" Kings, Warriors stories, his unfair reputation | Draymond Green Show

Welcome to the brand new Draymond Green Show YouTube channel. Hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any of our content. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. We are live here, well live as we record this for you here at the Resort World in Las Vegas. Appreciate them for having us here. I'm honored to have this next guest of mine, was a teammate of mine for a year. I used to kick his ass, like literally, the years prior to that. But nonetheless, outside of him being my teammate, he's my brother. And I'm honored to have this next guest. 5th overall pick in the 2010 draft, 4-time NBA All-Star, 2-time All-NBA Second Team, and a 2016 Olympic gold medalist. Draymond Green. None other, the one and only, Boog Demarcus Cousins. What's up, brother? My dog, I appreciate you coming on, man. What's up?

You know what it is, bro. It's love, it's love.

It's an honor for me, bro. Like, I've been wanting to have this conversation for a while. It was also one I never really wanted to do over Zoom. I think for me, the connection is too strong. The brotherhood is too strong, and I'm happy to do it here in person. So I appreciate you, man.

Appreciate you, bro.

Absolutely, but let's, Walk me back to the beginning, growing up in Alabama. Um, what was it like growing up and having to get it out the mud and then making it out of Alabama?

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It was tough, man. You know, typical story. You grow up in an environment that isn't promising. There's not a lot of opportunity and there's just not a lot of resources in general. You know, you kind of grow up in a situation where you become a product of your environment. But, you know, as every young boy, you kind of get to that point in your life, usually about middle school. Where I'm from, we call it hopping off the porch. But, you know, you get to that point and you gotta figure out, you know, which route you gonna take, left or right. And, you know, when you come from that type of place, you know what that means. So, you know, it was, You know, that typical type situation. And you know, it was a lot of growing pains for me, you know, trying to figure out how to become a young man and figure out my niche in life. And you know, just what I even wanted to do. It was a lot of negativity in front of me that, you know, a lot of negative influence, which is usually what kind of, you know, what are the words? That's the part that you get the most of. That's the overload that you get growing up in those type of environments. So with that being said, it goes back to, you know, what do I wanna do? Who do I wanna be? And, you know, with the influence of my mom, watching her work, you know, two jobs at some times and raise six kids, it's like, you know, she was the perfect example for me as far as work ethic. So, you know, once I got to that part where, hey, at the end of the day, I'm willing to work, worked my tail off to accomplish whatever I put my mind to. Like, I know I had a chance. So, you know, she helped me discover ball. I grew up playing football originally, you know, had dreams of being in the NFL. Genetics just ain't really work out in my favor. So, you know, I did take some things from that with just the physicality part, that killer mindset, you know, part of it. And it kind of translated over to ball. But back to what I was saying, my mom was the person that kind of introduced me to it. I was, you know, getting in trouble, doing a lot of, you know, just silly immature shit. And my mom, you know, she was like, I need to, you know, put you in something that's, you know, constructive for you, you know, keep you on the right path, things like that. So she like, try basketball. And, you know, quick learner. Very fast learner. And, you know, the rest is history. You know, my story played out how it played out. But originally that's just kind of, you know, like I said, typical, you know, story of, you know, how we kind of come up.

And grew up, born, raised in Mobile, then you moved to Birmingham.

I was born in Mobile and, you know, basically raised in Birmingham.

Okay.

And then I went back to Mobile my junior, senior year of high school.

And why go back then?

Like I said, I was a young, I was a youngin' trying to figure things out. And you know, like I said, I bumped my head plenty of times. I've had a lot of life lessons, you know, early in life. I grew up faster than a lot of kids and, Like I said, that was just kind of the environment I grew up in. So, you know, me going back to Mobile was a decision my mom ended up making when, you know, she basically got to a boiling point of, you know, I can't do this alone. I need a little more help. And she kind of leaned on her mother in that situation to, you know, help guide me through the rest of my years in high school. But I got in some silly shit junior year, which kind of led me back. To go into Mobile. And, you know, at that point in my life, that's when I really, you know, made a decision to commit to, you know, being a basketball player full-time. And, you know, and I understood I had a lot of potential on my side. I had a skillset that wasn't really a normal thing. So, you know, I told myself, let's take advantage of this opportunity and let's see where it can take you. Yeah.

So you keep mentioning your mom. For me, my mom, man, you know my mom.

Yeah, shout out to Duke's, man. Shout out to Duke's. I need them tacos too. Absolutely.

She coming out tomorrow. Oh, for sure. She making them on Tuesday.

Okay.

But I know how strong my mom is and your mom the same way. Brilliant, incredible. Job that they did in raising us. But when I, it's funny, 'cause I had a conversation and the reason I say this, you keep saying my mom did this, my mom did that. I had a conversation with my mom one day about from 11 years old on, my mom was a single mother.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, from 12 to 18, vital years and growing into manhood.

Yes.

And I lived in a house with my mom. And so in turn, I watched everything that, I watched the way my mom run a house as opposed to the way my dad or a father or a man would run a house. In turn, I picked up some of those tendencies because that's what you see. And I said to my mom one day, maybe like 3 or 4 years ago, I was like, "Ma, you know, you did an incredible job raising me. I'm so thankful and appreciative." But something I need you to understand is I also watched you as a woman do all that you can to raise us. But some of the things that you did, I picked up on.

Oh, absolutely.

And now I have a wife and a woman, and sometimes we bump heads.

Right.

And the reason we bump heads is probably because I'm doing something that she should be doing or that she would be doing. Because those are things that I picked up just because I was raised by my mom. And so I said all of that to say, you keep mentioning your mom, where does your father come in in your life? And with that relationship, then how did it impact your upbringing and who you became as a man and the life lessons that you had to learn?

You know, with my pops, it's, I know him, I know who he is, but the relationship is nonexistent at this point. You know, I've attempted to, you know, kind of create a relationship or, you know, a bond and, you know, it just didn't quite work out that way. That's just, you know, it is what it is. But, you know, it's, you know, some things just aren't meant to be and, you know, it's okay. But I do learn from it. I do take, you know, things from our relationship and I don't take it in a way of trying to apply it to my life, but I actually wanna do the opposite. It's actually, you know, being a father, it means so much to me that it's actually an insecurity for me. And the reason I say that is because I don't always feel like I do it the correct way. Or sometimes, you know, my message that I'm giving my boys and my daughters, like, is it the correct message or is this just the way I feel? You know?

Mm-hmm.

And you know, you can, the trauma and the toxicity and the negativity that you kind of grow up with can also become a part of.

Absolutely.

And sometimes with making decisions, it's hard to separate your foundation and an emotional decision. So sometimes it kind of gets in my mind on that type of thing. And I beat myself up about it. I want to be the best example I can be. I want to make sure, I'm a resource for them and let them know like whatever they're going through, no matter what it is, I'm pretty sure I've been through it or I have, you know, some pretty sound advice that can help guide you through it, you know, the cleanest way possible. So, you know, it's a struggle for me because I didn't get it firsthand. So I'm also, you know, no matter, you know, no matter how long I am a father, it's still gonna always kind of be brand new for me because I didn't have an example in front of me.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, I pride myself on being the best version of myself every day. You know, I never want, you know, my seeds to go through, you know, anything that I had to experience. And like I said, I wanted to make this the cleanest path possible for them. And on top of all of it, it's more so for me just breaking, you know, generational curses. We, you know, it's so much bullshit in our culture that, you know, we kind of praise and, when in actuality it should be kind of frowned upon. But it's so many years of this cycle of doing it the same type of way that we think it's okay. So for me, it's just, you know, breaking that cycle, even when it comes down to, you know, eating the correct way, putting the right things in your body. You know, it's plenty of, you know, Black families, ethnic families out there that deal with diabetes and things of that nature. My family is one of them.

So—

Mm-hmm.

Me knowing that, "Hey, no sugar." You know what I mean? And I know it sucks. I know your peers are doing it, but this is my way of showing you that I love you. And it may suck now. It may not make sense now, but you know, down the line, you'll understand and realize like he was really doing what was, you know, best for my long-term and my right now. So, you know, that's just kind of where I'm at when it comes to, you know, fatherhood.

I had an interesting thing happen to me the other day. Most people don't know the story. Of what you know, but most people don't know the story of my fatherhood, my journey with fatherhood in my life, not me as a father. But long story short, I was raised by my daddy till I was 12. I thought he was my daddy. When I was 13, I found out that he wasn't my real father.

Mm-hmm.

Then my real father, went through high school, embarrassed to really embrace the relationship because everybody in my school district knew my daddy. So now how do I tell people that that's not my daddy? And so then I dealt with that embarrassment and I hid from it. Never really allowed the relationship to go anywhere because I was so embarrassed by it. Fast forward, sophomore year of college, I start to become who I became through basketball though. And so as you know, like through basketball, we can gain confidence in who we are as men. We gain an identity through that. And so— Mm-hmm. I became comfortable enough with who Draymond is that it's like, oh, this is my story. It is what it is. Let me embrace this. Embraced it. Things went left with my daddy who raised me. Got to the NBA, things went left with my father that birthed, you know, that gave birth to me. But my father. Tried to patch things up with my daddy. It was kind of shaky and never really the same. My father is sometimes here, sometimes there, not really his fault either. It's kind of, he has some blame in it too.

Right.

But I also have some blame in it and I know that, but it's just my personal journey. But an interesting thing, and I said all of that to ask you this question, an interesting thing happened to me the other day and it made me really rethink like, this journey with my dad, my father, and where do I need to take it? And I don't know, like I'm literally just having this conversation with you. I haven't had this conversation with anybody because it just happened the other day and it shook me up. And my son said, "Daddy, who was your daddy when you was my age?" And I said, "Whoa." "Who was your daddy when you was my age?" And the reality is he's actually met both of them, but not consistently enough in his life to where it's like, "Oh yeah, you know." And that shook me because it was like, "Whoa, I need to change something because I need to figure this out for him." Because maybe he's yearning for a grandfather. You know what I'm saying? Maybe he wanna know a grandfather.

Mm-hmm.

And so it brought me to a place, and again, this is therapy for me, by the way, right now, 'cause I'm literally just talking through this thing as it just happened the other day. But it's got me thinking, and I don't know where to turn except for try to make that right for him so he do know. And I said all of that to ask you, have you faced something like that with your boys where they ask you something, they wonder something about your father, Because I feel like they asked me because, or he asked me and your boys would ask you because we are good fathers to them. And so it's like, well, if you doing this for me, where was that for you? But I don't know where to turn with it. And I just wanted to ask you, have you faced something like that with your boys?

I actually have, and it's my oldest son. My two youngest, I'm sure it's on his way, but they don't quite understand that. Right now, but for sure my oldest. And it's more so where a part of me being a father, I'm super open. Like I admit to my flaws, I admit to my struggles coming up, I admitted to my insecurities coming up because I want my son to be able to relate. And I'm not saying, you know, everything I went through he's gonna go through, but you know, just me admitting and explaining and telling my story, it may be something that he is going through that you know, touches him and it makes sense, you know, or it triggers something within him, or it answers a question that may be, you know, in his mind that he's afraid to, you know, speak on. So I'm very open when it comes to that. And like I said, I always wanna tell my story so he can understand why I father him the way I do. You know, sometimes you have to be hard on him. And, you know, as a kid, 'cause we were once in that place, you feel like, man, Parents mean as hell, or, you know, whatever the case may be. And then, you know, you get to this big age and your mind is forever, you know, those messages that you get as a kid, they don't go anywhere. They kind of sit there and then, you know, outta nowhere it kind of clicks for you. And you're like, that's what that meant.

You know what I mean?

Absolutely. So, you know, that's what I want to happen for mine and hopefully sooner than later. So like I said, they don't have to go through the same struggles. So I have, been through that similar type situation. And you know, it's very sensitive for me because it's a lot of questions I have that still are unanswered and they may remain that way. That's just kind of how this thing works. So it goes back to me, like I said, I just wanna be the best version of myself. And you know, I feel like with that, with me just believing in that part, it'll carry over to fatherhood, it'll carry over to being a husband and so many other places. And— Yeah. Hopefully I can be the example that they need.

Absolutely. And I think you've done a great job of that. I've seen you in your, you know, in daddy mode, fathering your kids, the struggles that we go through as fathers, especially times when you have a child that's not with your wife. Those struggles, people don't understand that. Some days you're going to practice, Coming off a legal call all day the day before. Yeah, Draymond Green. Got legal calls all day the next day.

Yeah.

And people don't understand that struggle. And I've seen you in that mode and how you hold it together no matter what the situation is at that time. 'Cause when you have that situation, it gets sticky sometimes, you know? And nonetheless, I still gotta show up for them.

Absolutely.

Show up for him and be, the same daddy he knows when everything's going great for me. You know what I'm saying? I've seen you in those situations and it's honorable.

Appreciate that, bro.

Absolutely. But in moving forward, high school, then we get to college, you're All-American, you're all the things, commit to UAB, decommit, commits to Memphis with Coach Cal.

Yep.

Coach Cal leaves Memphis And you go with him to Kentucky. Just talk to me about what was it in Cal that you saw to where you like, "Oh, I'm going to Memphis," which is in the same conference as actually the school that I grew up in the city, UAB, Birmingham. It was in the Conference USA. And then you go with Cal, like, "Nah, I'm going with him." What was it in Cal that you saw that you were like, "I'm going with him no matter where he go?" Well, it's crazy.

Like you said, Memphis and UAB are in the same conference, or was at some point. So when I was starting this basketball journey, I ended up, you know, having an opportunity to go to a UAB game. So happened to be playing Memphis. Cal was there and he had a player by the name of Sean Williams.

Absolutely.

So, you know, the way Sean Williams played the game, I'm just like, bro, that's how I wanna play. You know, just being able to play all over the floor, score from all over the floor, be a playmaker, a ball handler, all of those things. And you know, we kind of came up in the era where you were more, your talents were a little more minimized. You know, they put you more in a box. If you were 6'5" and above, you going to the post.

You going to the box. You know what I mean?

So we grew up in that era. So, you know, It was weird to see a guy my size, you know, handling the ball, shooting and things of that nature. So that intrigued me about Cal, that he enabled that in his players. So that was really the first thing. And then, you know, I watched how he handled the careers of, you know, Tyreke Evans and Derrick Rose and Rodney Cardy and all these guys that kind of came up under him and, you know, I loved everything about it. I love the relationship he had with his guys, even after, you know, he left it, they left the program. So, you know, all of those things kind of intrigued me, you know, towards wanting to play for Calipari. And then at the end of the day, he's real about, you know, this situation. Like, yeah, it's a sport, but you know, this is a situation where you can find long-term success. You can find, you know, long-term wealth, all of these things. And he understands that. He understands both sides of it. Obviously he wants to, you know, bring in the best talent that's gonna help, you know, continue to propel his program. And it kind of goes hand in hand. And he's mastered how to, you know, push that relationship in the most positive way where both sides benefit from it. Mm-hmm. And that's what I love the most about Cal. And when it came to me leaving college, I've been on record saying this before, it was just, it was the most simple and real conversation ever is, you know, you'll stay if you wanna take care of my family and you'll leave if you wanna take care of your family.

And you wanted to stay, right?

Oh, I was planning on staying. I mean, I was so emotionally attached at that. You, bro, you know how college goes, bro. Like—

Absolutely.

Your heart really be in it.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? And once you get, once you get a little taste of success and you get close to that finish line of winning the championship, you kind of start craving it. So it's like, man, I gotta come back and get that chip. Like, you know what I mean? And just the energy of the tournament, the energy of your university behind you, the way they support you and lift you up, like you wanna win for them. You know what I mean? So that's just kind of where I was after we lost in the Elite Eight. So obviously my mind was like, come back. And I had a, a very brief conversation with John. I'm thinking we on the same page, like, you know, A5, like, let's run it back. John like, "Hell no, bro, I'm outta here." Like, and it makes sense. Like, he's the number one pick.

Why the hell would he come back? Absolutely.

You know, like I said, after having that conversation with Kyle, it was an easy decision from that point moving forward. And it's like, I gotta go take care of my family.

Absolutely. And you get drafted to an organization at the time, that was a lot like the organization I got drafted to at the time. It was a laughingstock of the NBA, was through coaches every 2 years.

Every 1 year, bro.

Crazy. Like the turnover in the organization, no stability. Teams walk into your gym, it's a night off for them because—

Whoa, relax.

No, that was the Warriors too. What I'm saying is like these organizations— Oh, we gonna put up a fight now. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about the Warriors. The organization. You get drafted to the organization and the way teams looked at these organizations was like, oh, we got a night off when we walk in.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying? Like that was the Warriors, that was the Kings, it's the Pistons now.

Right.

Like that's how the organization was looked at. You get drafted into that organization and in spite of all of that, in spite of the coaching changes, the instability, because no one always talk about, No one ever says, "Yo, it's the organization fault." Right. It's always the player fault. By the way, 19 years old, it can't really be my fault.

Right.

Like, 19, you supposed to be helping me out, but it don't really happen that way. They blame the player. And in spite of all of that, you go there and you, from the time you get there, all rookie teams, all NBAs, all-stars, didn't wanna give you your due at first. Mm-hmm. But they had to, you forced them to. What was it like going to an organization like that and then having to navigate all of those things with the coaching changes, the front office, then there was an ownership change while you was there. All of those things happened. And what was it like for you having to navigate that as a young 19-year-old?

It was tough and it was confusing. And, you know, It was even worse for me because I was coming from a situation at Kentucky where Kyle treated us like pros. You know what I mean? He was preparing us for that next level. So I remember, I'll never forget this, but shout out to my vet, Francisco Garcia. I'm sorry. Cisco was my vet. He might've, at the time I work here, he might've been 5, 6 years in.

Mm-hmm.

Just kind of showed like, that's not a real vet. Not at all. But at the time, like that was my vet. But I remember in my rookie season, you know, it was something simple. I don't even remember what the task was, but I kind of like, at Kentucky, it was like, I never did anything like that. Then I came to the Kings and in my mind it's like, this is even, this is a step.

Yes.

Higher, even more, you know what I mean? This is the elite level of basketball. So my expectations were, you know, just, they were off, you know, to say the least. So it was a simple task. And I remember Cisco saying something like, yo, you really was spoiled at Kentucky. Like, and in my head, I'm like, damn, maybe I was like, but at the same time, I'm like, this is an even more elite level. So, Why is it being looked at as me being spoiled? So long story short, Cisco ended up eventually getting traded to the Houston Rockets.

Mm-hmm, yep.

And I remember when he went there, he ended up tapping in with me like a little later. And he was like, man, I remember that day I called you spoiled. Like, he was like, I was wrong. Like, we were in a shithole. I'm like, I knew I wasn't tripping, bro. And it was, and not to, I'm not, you know, I'm not here to like shit on the Kings or anything like that. That's just, you know, in sports you have up and down years. And you know, I just so happened to come in at a point where it was down years. The organization was figuring itself out. You know, it was in this transition period. The owners that drafted me, you know, they were ready to move on and sell the team. So it's a lot of things I got caught up in that was just outta my control.

Absolutely.

You know, the average, you know, fan or whatever, don't quite understand that part of the business or the game. So, you know, it's easy to look at my situation and, you know, just kind of point the finger. And to be honest, a lot of it was my fault. Like I did do a lot of bonehead shit, stupid shit, but you know, that's part of growing up and becoming a man. You bump your head a few times.

Absolutely.

But, you know, it was hard. It was hard figuring it out. A new system every single year, like that's tough to do. Each coach has a different system. Each coach thinks differently. Like, so, you know, just trying to find success with a new system every single year, that's really hard to do.

Absolutely.

And then on top of it, you know, people think players create a vibe, which they do, but organization being good starts at the top. Start at the top. Every single, that's with any type of organization, it starts at the top. Mm-hmm.

For sure.

It just wasn't right. It wasn't, things weren't aligned correctly and it wasn't, the Kings weren't ready to flourish yet. And you know, like I said, I ended up going through a couple ownership, with two ownership groups. I had three GMs. And I was there 6 and a half years, had 6 coaches. So, like I said, it was tough to navigate, but you know, at the end of the day, when it came to competing, that was my foundation. I had my own personal goals, which was to try to be the best, you know, player I could be regardless of my situation, you know, find a way to shine.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, That was just kind of my mindset with maneuvering through that.

Nah, I mean, like I said, I think even when I look back on it, it's dope to see because, and now being in the NBA and understanding, A, what it means to be a bad organization. Like, there's way more bad organizations than there are good organizations. And, With that being said, and it, like I said, it goes back to my original point, which is A, we've never once in a million years saw a list come out on Bleacher Report, on The Athletic, on ESPN talking about these are the top 5 "Bottom 5 worst organizations in the league." Right. "These are the bottom 10 worst organizations in the league." Right. "And here's why these organizations are bad." Right. You can go down the list.

Right.

I've never seen an article that way.

No.

But the moment DeMarcus Cousins get ejected from a game or get a technical foul or him and teammate have words because that does happen amongst teammates. Then that's like this big issue, you know? And it's like, oh, then that's who you become. And I myself has experienced some of that, which then leads me to my next question for you, which is, there's passion and— Passion. There's attitude. They are actually, they live in the same house.

Yes.

Like they sleep in the bedroom together.

Right.

Pretty much the same thing. But the difference in them is how they're characterized and categorized.

Right.

I remember you said something to me in 2018. Maybe even before that, probably was before we were even teammates. But I know for certain you said it to me at some point when we were teammates. I'm actually certain you've said it multiple times, which is, "Man, we the same. We the same. And they say you got passion and they say I'm crazy and got an attitude." Right. And I was like, No, we, I can appreciate your passion and I've always told you that. Like, no, I know your passion. I appreciate also it matters. Like, don't really put me with somebody that it don't matter to. 'Cause I don't wanna be around somebody that it don't matter. But also when you said that, I was like, cuz you fucking crazy. We ain't the same. And you said something to me that day. And I was like, I didn't necessarily go back at you, but it was a thought-provoking thing. And I just kept it with me. And what you said was, "Nah, but y'all been winning. So they say yours is passion. I haven't won much. So they say mine is an attitude and I can't be coached and I'm crazy and this and that." And I said all of that to say, I'm sorry. Because you was right. Because all of a sudden we ain't winning and now I'm crazy.

Right.

Now I ain't got this sense.

Draymond, you, man, you America's most wanted, brother.

And I'm just like, oh, this is fucking nuts. And when I was going through all of that stuff this year, the first person I thought about was actually you. Because it took me back to that moment. When you said that. And I said all of that to say to you, in coming through this league and being labeled as a head case, as a coach cancer, as this thing, as that thing, ultimately knowing like, no, bro, I care.

Right.

How did you ultimately come to terms with that of like, no, I care and I do have passion and all these things, but then y'all are trying to use it against me, make me out to be something I am not. But at the same time, this is how I play. This is how I'm great. This is the, these are the things that make me great.

Right.

But then I gotta try to find this balance because y'all trying to label me and say I'm a problem. How did you ultimately come to terms with that? Grow through that? Or do you think you ever got through it?

I don't. I never really have come to terms with it. I let it go because, you know, you get to a point where you just learn to control what you can control. And at the end of the day, in this lifetime, it's gonna be motherfuckers that hate you. It's gonna be motherfuckers that love you. That's just how this goes. Like, no matter what you do, no matter how many things you do right, they gonna find something to hate about you doing it the right way.

Absolutely.

So that's just the nature of life. But it was hard because the same emotions, the same passion, the same, that will to win, that fire inside of you, the same thing that got you to this point and helps you be this world-class athlete, it's like frowned upon. And at the end of the day, like, I think it's even deeper than that. Like, everybody's not gonna like everybody, but at the end of the day, if you can come to understand a person, it's easy to accept. It's easier to accept. And, you know, I've thought about it. I've brainstormed. I've, you know, I'm like, what is it? And it just comes down to, we don't relate. Like when you think about these front offices, you think about these people that run these organizations and even coaches, we don't relate. And the biggest thing we don't relate on is you don't know how to be a world-class athlete.

That part.

You don't know what it takes. You don't know the hunger. You don't know the drive. You don't know the fight. The sacrifice, like the toughness, the mental toughness, the physical toughness, you don't know what it takes to be a professional athlete.

Mm-hmm.

But you have the power to critique and judge, which is mind-blowing.

Mm-hmm.

And it even goes a little further than that. Outside of being a world-class athlete, you know, you get these guys from all over the world, from different backgrounds, different environments, places, and you appreciate them for their athleticism. And you don't really understand their process or what they go through to get to that point, to become that athlete. And the different things they went through in life to get them to that point, you don't understand it. You don't even, you probably don't even know.

Mm-hmm.

And I think that just falls back on You know, it's strictly about being an athlete, but it's so much more deeper to understanding these athletes and these different people that get overlooked and honestly just kind of swept under the rug. And I think that's why it's gonna always be that rough patch of where it's never gonna really match up or be understandable. So, Have I gotten to the point where I've accepted it or no, but I've definitely let go.

Speaking of accepting it, you just spoke about John, number one pick.

Mm-hmm.

Top 3 Washington Wizards of all times. If you wanna argue with me about it, I'm not gonna sit here and argue for 5, top 5 for certain.

Right, right, right.

Tomato, tomato. He recently said like he just wants to help an NBA team. Like, I know I still got something left to give to the game and I just wanna help an NBA team, be back in the NBA and help him in any way that I can. If that's just mentoring a guy, 'cause of what I've been through or whatever, he wants that. You've said the opposite. As of recent, maybe like 6, 7 months ago, if that long ago, you said, "I know my time in the NBA is done. I'm over chasing the dream. I'm moving on." Mm-hmm. What was the process like for you to get there? And is that, you've continued to play some basketball in places. Is that the still same sentiment that you share or that you share today about the game, about the NBA, as you did 6, 7 months ago?

I've actually gotten to the place where, you know, I found that joy again in playing ball. And, you know, I feel like people can relate. It's no different than, you know, you working your regular job and initially, you know, you working your way to getting that job, you loved it. You know, you were all about it. You were, you know, I can't wait to work this job. You actually probably enjoy going to it every day. And then, you know, you get to a point where, you know, the job is overwhelming. It's kind of affecting your personal life. It's affecting life at home. And, you know, that's kind of what—

Yeah.

The NBA became for me. And not necessarily that it was doing anything detrimental towards me. It was just more so the mental space I was in with, you know, one, accepting it, two, trying to understand like, why am I at this place? And why I'm still trying to prove a point that I felt like I've, you know, proven plenty of times. So—

Yeah.

For me, it was always about finding that joy again. 'Cause I love the game of basketball. Like, I'mma play ball if I'm on a team or not. Like, I'mma go to the local gym and play.

And just hoop.

I love hoop. Like, I really love to hoop. So for me, it was finding that joy, you know, being a part of that team chemistry, team camaraderie, and just, you know, being, At the end of the day, we're artists. Like, and when you're creating your art and you in that space where you can just, you know, free flow and be yourself, be the best version of yourself, it's a great feeling.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? And I finally gotten back to that space and I'm just enjoying my art. You know, I'm in a place where, and for me with moving forward, when it comes to business, it's gonna always be a place where, you know, I'm appreciated and not tolerated. And I don't want that feeling of being tolerated. So, you know, that's kind of where I'm at with it. And for the most part, like, I say I'm not chasing that dream. And that's as far as me reaching out, like, "Hey man, let me—" Yes. "Give me a chance." Like, I'm not doing that. Like, now, if you guys find interest and it makes sense on both sides, then, you know, that's something I'll consider. But as far as me reach out and just hearing the, And that's the other thing. Like, I'm the type person, like, I ask questions or when I fuck up, I wanna know the truth.

Mm-hmm.

Because at the end of the day, I'm the person that I don't have a problem looking in the mirror or, you know, saying I was wrong or, you know, self-reflect. Like, I self-reflect a lot. Like, what can I do better? But I feel like the only way you kind of know that is when they are honest with you. Are honest with you and it's like, you know, what was it that bothers you? What can I do to change that? And you don't really quite get those type of answers in the NBA. You know, they throw a lot of sugar on shit in the NBA. Like, that's just how it kind of goes. So, you know, I can't really get a real answer, you know? And, you know, at the end of the day, I wanna play ball. I wanna ride off in this sunset and, I'm gonna do what makes me happy at the end of the day. So that's just kind of where I'm at.

I think that's beautiful to find that love. I think that's something that we all go through, no matter, regardless of what the position is that you're in, by the way, if you're in it.

Yeah.

At some point or another, you kind of lose that love and that lust for the game. And then it's just like, fuck.

Right.

Like, I gotta go through this.

Ah. Right.

Got it. Like everything is like pulling teeth.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? So just to hear, that you have that love again. I think personally that's amazing. And so in speaking on just the love for finding it all again, when you look back on it through the whole process, whether it's the Kings wanting to leave the Kings, then not wanting to leave the Kings, Well, the one thing that I do know is that the entire time you always said like, "No, I love it here. I wanna be here. Like I drafted here, I wanna be here." Ultimately you got traded, which I can imagine is tough for anyone. I have never had to deal with it, but I struggle with change as it is. So to get traded in the middle of a season to me is terrifying. But nonetheless, needless to say, whether it's Kings to the Pelicans, Pelicans, Draymond Green, tear your Achilles, then you ultimately sign with the Warriors. When you look back through the journey, are there any regrets that you have about your career, about the way that it went, the way that it, ended, although it's not completely over yet, but do you look back on it and say, man, like, I regret this, or I have any type of regrets about something, the way you handled something, just going through the journey?

Bro, I'm not a person that lives with many regrets, but man, it's one thing I know for sure I wish I would've did differently in my career. And it might not even, It might not even be an answer you really are expecting from me, but bro, I was, it was a year in Sacramento and I was dealing with some family things back home. And you know, my brother, you know, kind of had a situation of his own. And it was this fucking reporter, bro, named Andy Furillo. And this guy just, he made it a mission to, to make sure he gave me hit piece after hit piece where it was, you know, just kinda, it was the campaign that kind of pushed me outta Sacramento. They had a little campaign going, which was fine. But you know, I would see the articles and you know, you know how we deal with media. It's like, I know what your angle is with me.

So I'm gonna deal with you accordingly. Absolutely.

So he finally made a piece and he started to slander my, and he was, It was to the point where he was kind of running out of material to say about me. So then he just kind of switched lanes and now he was speaking on a family member. And you know, I'm super sensitive about my family. It's not a lot of things that bother me more than when you bother my family. And for me, you know, with me doing my job and me being in this profession, you know, talk your shit, say whatever you got to say about me, but "Don't bother my family." You know what I mean? So he mentioned my brother and it was some, and I didn't appreciate it. So at the end of the day, you know, I kind of pressed the line, like, you know, "Keep my fucking family out your mouth, homie." And it was never to the point where I wanted to take it further than it needed to, but I definitely wanted to get my point across. And at the end of the day, looking back on it, one, I was raised better. Two, you know, I was raised to respect my elders. Mm-hmm. So I definitely pressed that old man a little too hard, bro. So for me, bro, that was probably the only, I'm just like, man, come on. And I'm not a guy that like, I hate bullies. Like, you know, I experienced it growing up. Like that's part of the reason I, you know, the demeanor came about. 'Cause I grew up in an environment like you gonna either, eat or be eaten.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? So that's kind of where the demeanor comes from, but I never believed in bullies. So, you know, I look back on that moment and I'm like, bro, you were wrong for that. Like, you know what I mean? But outside of that, nah, like coming from where I'm from, like knowing what I've been through, I never in a million years as a youngin' thought my life would play out the way it did. I've lived the, unbelievable life. And I say that going through the good and the bad. Like, you know, I look at some of my peers and look at, you know, people I grew up with in my environment. And, you know, it's people that never even leave their neighborhood. You know what I mean? I've been all over the world. I've experienced different cultures. I've seen different things. I've met, you know, plenty of, you know, amazing people. So I could never sit here and say, you know, I live with regret, but you know, like I said earlier, I definitely self-reflect and I have no problem admitting, you know, when I'm wrong.

You came to the Warriors on a 1-year, I think at the time maybe it was like $5.8 million deal. The news on the street was that you turned down 2 for 40 from New Orleans. A, is the 2 for 40 true? When you look back on the decision also to come to the Warriors, As it stands today, how do you feel about that decision as well?

So one, no, that's not true. Dale Dimples Kick rocks. But so when I blew my Achilles, it was a little bit right before All-Star break. That year I was voted All-Star starter. That was my first time. Had a lot of things going my way. So I was on pace to getting a max contract, like full max contract. And I think it might've been like $175 at the time, something like that. So, you know, that was understood.

Yeah. Penny right there.

So when the Achilles injury happened, you know, I went out to LA, had the surgery. And then at that point I just kind of separated from the team. You know, having an injury of that magnitude, it can low-key kind of be a distraction to even be around. Me being a vital part of that team, like, you know, it was a blow to the team. So my thing was, you know, let me kind of remove so those guys can stay locked in for the rest of the season. So I went out to LA, you know, went through my process of healing and maybe a week after my surgery, you know, Dale Demps reached out and— Mm-hmm. The Pelicans actually were coming out that way. They had a road trip between LA, the two LA teams.

Okay.

Road trip. So anyway, you know, he came through, he came to visit me and initially with the visit, you know, it was to come check on me. Like I said, this was a week later. So I'm just thinking, you know, he coming to check on me, holler, whatever, whatever. He's probably there maybe 10 minutes. In the midst of that, you know, he starts talking contracts. I don't have an agent around, anything like that. It's just me, you know, my day-to-day manager. I had a couple doctors with me, you know, going through my process. So he's talking to me, he starts mentioning the contract. And you know how this go, we don't negotiate. That's what our agents are for. Absolutely. That's not my job.

I see.

So once he started, you know, kind of talking about it and he never mentioned numbers or anything, he just kind of started the conversation of, you know, your value has dropped since the injury or whatever. So I kind of look at him and I'm kind of like in shock, like you even really having this conversation while I'm sitting here like this. So I kind of got a little frustrated and I'm like, you know what? Like, I'm not really in the space like to do this. So, you know, we finished the evening, we go our separate ways. So before he left, you know, I was like, I'd rather not, I'd rather not speak again until, you know, the start of free agency. Like, 'cause I wasn't appreciative of that moment. And I let it be known to my agent as well. And I was like, if there's anything that really needs to be said, you can just, you know, holla at my agent. Like, so I didn't hear, from Dale Demps until the start of free agency. And, you know, we kind of had our, I talked to a few teams, you know, that day. And, you know, which don't really, they don't matter now, but with Dale Demps, you know, he took offense to me not wanting to speak. So then it was, you know, the conversation was, we don't want you back. You were difficult to deal with. So I'm like, all right, you know, I'm like, damn. Like in my head, I'm like, damn, like you don't even want me back? Like, you know, so get on the phone with my agent and I'm like, this motherfucker just told me he didn't want me back. So now I'm kind of like lost. Like, 'cause going into this whole thing, I'm like, I know it's gonna be figured out.

Absolutely.

It's just, we weren't a playoff team the year before, we're now a playoff team. We had a lot of success in a short time. So I'm like, I know they're gonna try to keep this team together. I brought Rondo in, we had Drew Holliday. So we had a night, we had a really good core. And so my whole mindset was like, I know it'll get figured out, whatever it is. So, you know, once I heard the words, you know, we don't want you back at all, you know, my mind kind of shift and it's just like, damn, like, you know, what am I doing now? So now I know like, I'm not, I know I'm not getting the max 'cause the team that can pay it to me doesn't even want me. And I think for the most part throughout the league, it was kind of figured that I would be back with New Orleans.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, we kind of had that conversation and then I'm not really sure of the timeline, but they ended up signing Julius Randle. So for me, I'm like, well, there's my money. Like, you know what I mean? So they obviously, they really moved on. So, you know, at this point I'm like, damn, this, you know, this is a fucked up situation, but you know, I know the reality of my situation, which is I have a blown Achilles. I probably won't be back next year. It's just a difficult time. So, you know, I get on the phone with my agent and we kind of figure out a game plan as to, you know, how can I maneuver through this and still find a way to be successful? He kind of mentioned the Warriors and I'm like, that would make sense. I could rehab, I can come in once I'm healthy and just kind of help the team move forward. And I can still remain with some type of value. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And then I could go on and continue my career. So that was kind of the game plan and that's how it was introduced to me. And that's more so how it played out, but to me, To answer that question, you know, I took a lot of scrutiny for, you know, that so-called deal that was offered to me. But like I said, we never had a conversation about a deal in general, like no numbers, no years, anything was offered. So I don't to this day know where that rumor came from.

Man, I think I still remember getting that call I was sitting in Santorini, Greece on vacation at dinner with my wife. Was having dinner on the cliff looking over the water.

Life flex.

And Bob called me and Bob was like, "Yo." He's like in a panic, almost like hyperventilating. Like, "Yo, yo, like it's crazy what's going on back here. I know you on vacation.", but I think we can get to Marcus Cousins. What you think? And I'm like, Bob, what? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, I think we can get to Marcus Cousins. Like, he's like, what do you think? How you feel about that? Like, when I talk to him, he seems like he in, but he need to talk to you and Steph. And he really needs to talk to you. 'cause I guess y'all got into it or something. And I said, number one, Bob, that's no issue. No issue at all. So number two, Bob, if you can get DeMarcus Cousins, you fucking get DeMarcus Cousins. I don't care who may feel a way. If you can get DeMarcus Cousins, you get DeMarcus Cousins. And I remember that whole thing playing out.— and you ended up on the team doing your rehab. You came back, first game back, dunk on Kyle Kuzma. So now you're rehabbing from an Achilles injury. I'd imagine not really feeling like yourself when you come back. Then you dunk on Kuz right away. You had that play, which is like, oh, that's like, that's prom DeMarcus. Mm-hmm. In the moment when that play happens and you like, At that moment, do you feel like, "Oh, I'm back, I'm good." Or was that just one hurdle that you had to jump over coming back from it?

I would say it was a hurdle I had to jump over. And you know, it was a lot for me even, you know, coming back, learning the system, you know. And it's like, in that offense, like, it's, People think it's just so free-flowing, but it takes a lot of IQ to play in that. And your IQ never turns off. It's not just an athletic type system. It's a lot of thinking in between. So learning that on the fly, learning how to play off, you know, the tendencies of Steph, the tendencies of Klay, and then ultimately, you know, K at the time.

Absolutely.

And then even you, because we did a lot of similar things, but you know, it was, it was me trying to find my way into a well-oiled machine, but also continue to let it run properly. So it was a lot of difficult times where I, sometimes I felt out of place, the rhythm was off, trying to figure out my own personal game within the offense. So it was a lot of things against me. And then on top of that, just having confidence in my movements, like doing things that I was used to doing, but My mind is telling me like, "Yeah, you can still do it." But my body not on the same page. So it was very difficult, but I had a credit to you guys. And I had a really good group around me. You guys really embraced me. You guys worked with me. You allowed me to find my way within it. And eventually we had, it was rolling.

Yeah.

I mean, it was rolling, bro. You know, we kind of finally found our rhythm, you know, everybody figured out their place within the team and everybody was finding success at the same time. And then, you know, obviously we ran into another injury. So, but like I said, credit to you guys because y'all really made that situation work for me.

No doubt, no doubt. And it was amazing. Switching gears before I let you go, You've been very, or a lot more involved in the media space. I think you do an incredible job. Obviously we all know you're never gonna mince your words. You are going to say exactly what you think and feel. It's gonna be authentic, it's gonna be real. And that I can appreciate because that's how I try to go about the business. But in getting into the media space, and you just spoke, you just said something that's very interesting. You said, you know how we deal with the media? Like, and now to be on that side in a sense, is ultimately like media is something that you wanna do post-career, just kind of something you doing right now. Where do you see that thing moving for you?

It's definitely a lane I wanna be in. You know, I feel I'm a person with a lot of knowledge with this game, a lot of experiences. I'm a person that relied on thinking the game. So I kind of view the game in a different way than guys that more so rely on athleticism. So I just, and then on top of it, I feel like I'm a guy that can kind of help people relate with understanding both sides. You know what I mean? And on top of that, for me, it was when we came into the league, you know, I came in in 2010 and it was kind of a league where, you know, you had to just shut up and play. Like regardless of what was said, if it's true or not, you know, part of being professional back then was, you know, just kind of taking it on the chin. And you know, a lot of information to be spread about you or rumor be said about you. And it could have simply been because you didn't take that one-on-one with a media member. Absolutely. They take it personal. They have a bias towards you or they feel like you're an asshole. And then now the narrative begins to shift. You know what I mean? So for me, that's part of the reason I kind of got into this lane. One, I could tell my own story. I could tell you exactly who I am. You can hear directly from the horse's mouth. And on top of that, you know, I wanna speak on this game from, you know, my perspective, my point of view. And I also wanna be able to critique it in a way where I'm honest, I'm real in my answers. But you know, when it comes to these athletes hearing, you know, my response, it'll never be where I want them to feel like, I don't think DeMarcus likes me.

Yeah.

Nah, I'm gonna just speak my truth. Hey bro, you play like shit or whatever the case may be. And I see you in person and it is, you know, I got a lot of respect for you and you know, I wish you the best. So that's more so how I kind of wanna go about it when it comes to, you know, just, you know, explaining this game and giving the people what they want as far as the insight of the game on both sides. So, you know, that's just kind of where I'm at with it.

No, no doubt. I think, like I said, I enjoy watching you. I think you've done an incredible job. And like, shit, I keep telling people, there's room for everybody in the space.

Oh, absolutely.

Because one thing it's about is like, what's your niche? You know what I'm saying? And like, my niche ain't gonna be your niche. Your niche not gonna be my niche. And because of that, then there's space for both of us. Because I can stay in my lane, you can stay in yours. And so I really enjoy you doing that. You ultimately decided to go overseas and play. You've been in China, you've been in Taiwan. What did it take you to reach there? To ultimately get to that decision? I know, you know, a lot of us struggle with that. You know, a lot of us like, man, fight it. Some guys never do it. Leave a ton of money on the table. Right.

Never doing it.

Right. What ultimately, what was it for you that gave you that final push? Like, fuck it, I'm going to do it. I'm gonna do it. Like, and that's just what it is.

It's pretty simple. I had that itch. I'm like, bro, I wanna hoop. Like, you know what I mean? Hell yeah. You know, you get so stuck on trying to, you know, get back to the league or whatever the case may be. I come to find out I'm in the gym 7 days a week trying to play 5-on-5 basketball. And I'm telling myself like, dude, just go play basketball. Like figure out a situation as you know, convenient for you. And it wasn't as simple as, you know, I just wanna go play basketball so I can just up and leave. 'Cause obviously I have a family, I, you know, I have my at-home situation. So it's not as easy. So I definitely had to find convenience in that factor. But, you know, ultimately we figured it out and, you know, I was able to go, you know, scratch that itch. So like I said, I very much still love the game. I'm very much still committed to it. I train weekly, like, I train like I'm still in the NBA. You know what I mean? So that's how committed I am to this game. And you know, until that, you know, that itch is gone, I'm gonna continue to play this game.

Mm-hmm. I can appreciate it. 'Cause I've always, I mean, I think now I could, because I've just traveled so much and I have a different appreciation for Europe and Asia and all these different things. But it takes so much to A, swallow your pride.

Yes.

Like make that sacrifice. Like going all the way over there, you can't really talk to people back at home because of the time difference. When you do, they're going to bed or you going to bed. Yes. And the list goes on and on and on. And so for me, I have the utmost respect for guys that can go overseas and play and actually do that. And even more respect for the guys who, experience the NBA, especially at a high level like you have, the highest level, and just can't quite, you know, like they just can't quite get it. And so I can appreciate that. Appreciate you, bro. So man, I've appreciated this conversation. As you know, the love that I have for you.

Absolutely.

Here. Will we see you try to make another run at the NBA or are you just gonna continue to scratch the itch till you done and say, you know what, I'm done with that. I've done that. I don't wanna quite chase that no more. And the reason I ask that is this, I actually think I was so happy when you said like, yo, I'm done chasing that. And the reason I was happy is because You great, man. Like I had to guard you. Like great. I still never forget the play where I was talking shit to you. You put your chest and your shoulder into my chest. I went into the stanchion and you was about to dunk on me and Bogie blocked the shot. I was so happy. It was no coming back from that play for me. I was so happy.

Would've heard that the rest of your life, dog.

Oh my God. It was no coming back. I was so happy. But one thing I think happens is like people then try to lessen what you've done and they do it to you. I watched them do it to Melo when Melo was like, nah, like I still wanna play and like trying to get back in the league. And then he even ended up getting back in the league. But it's like, ah, it's almost like people feel like, oh, here's my chance to treat you how I wanna treat you. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. Is that door still shut for you? Where you like, nah, I'm good on the NBA. Like if I wanna play basketball, I'll still play basketball. But that thing for me is done.

Like I said, I'm definitely at the place where, you know, I'mma scratch my itch. But as far as chasing it, I'm done chasing. If it's a situation that's, you know, that makes sense, is some insurance behind it and things of that nature, then absolutely I would consider it. But like I said, as far as chasing or begging and kissing ass, that's not happening.

Yeah.

It's not happening.

My dog. I appreciate it, bro. That's a wrap. This episode of the show. We thank you, bro. Appreciate you, Brody. Absolutely. Resort World, we appreciate you. It's a wrap. Peace.