Dray, JJ Redick & Stephen A. Smith LIVE on Steph's legacy, KD & new media | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody, it's Draymond Green from the Draymond Green Show. Make sure you subscribe to the Old Man and the Three.

And it's JJ and Tommy. Make sure you subscribe to the Draymond Green Show and the Volume. Run it back. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to a very special and also very last minute— Very last minute. Collaboration between the Old Men of the Three and the Draymond Green Show. Timing-wise, it couldn't have worked better. Draymond just won his fourth championship.

Woo!

He's also got arguably arguably the greatest basketball podcast out right now.

Definitely the hottest out.

The hottest out. I mean, some people, some people would maybe argue there's some other really good ones.

In this case, in this case, I think we're okay being number 2, honestly, with his content over the last month.

I do want to point out one thing. A few months ago, Duke played Michigan State.— in the Sweet 16, or to go to the Sweet 16, I texted Draymond and I said, "Dray, let's have some action on this game." And normally when I bet college basketball games, it's usually with UNC guys. Those guys are randomly very cheap. [LAUGHTER] And they want to do $100 bets, $200 bets. I knew Dray was the real deal, so I said, "Let's bet a bottle of DRC." Of course, Duke won.

Of course, it was close though.

It was close.

You were sweating for a little bit.

But Dray showed up tonight with a 2006 Richerberg. So let's give Dray a hand on that. [APPLAUSE] The man pays his debts. All right, we got a great show for you guys tonight. Let's welcome in Draymond Green from The Draymond Green Show. Let's go.

[APPLAUSE] Dramatic entrance.

Hello, everyone. I just spilled my wine a little bit. That wasn't real player of me, but I'm here. What's up, guys?

What's up, man?

This is great. This is great.

We, just so we know, the reason there's a fourth chair is that We randomly, 5 minutes ago, learned we probably are gonna have a surprise guest at some point in the show tonight.

Woo!

So, we appreciate that. Dray, I got a question for you because I've never won an NBA championship and you've won 4.

I got one to spare. I got one to spare.

Take me through the last 11 days since you guys won.— the aftermath of that feeling, the aftermath of winning a championship?

Well, there's been a lot of shut-ups and fuck-yous. It's just been absolutely amazing. What are they gonna say now? Draymond versus everybody. I like that.

She's ready.

Shout out to her. No, honestly, I'm getting old. And I just been chilling. Like, at home, doing nothing. Like, my wife's been trying to get me to fly all over the place. Let's go to Cabo. Then she leaves to LA, let's go to LA. And I was supposed to leave to LA on Wednesday. I pushed the trip back every day until Sunday, till I had to leave. And my flight to here was from LA. So I had to fly to LA Sunday. So the drunk Draymond that y'all see that say, "Yup, nope," I wasn't quite that guy this time around. I've been at home chilling, trying to get my feet under me, man. It's been crazy. It's nuts.

I got a question, though, about the parade. Again, not to be self-deprecating too much, but I envision that happening. In my life, and it never did, unfortunately. And, you know, we did a bit on ESPN, we did a bit about who the MVP of the Warriors parade was, and certainly you're a candidate for that. Klay Thompson had 5 or 6 viral moments in the span of 2 hours. And Steph seemed to really let go a little bit. I did.

Absolutely.

Who was your MVP of the Warriors parade?

It definitely wasn't me. I mean, I've had my moments and I've had my parades that I owned. It wasn't that one. I have to go co-MVP for Steph and Klay, and here's why. Like you just hit at, Steph never lets go like that. Like, I think people have seen another side of Steph that they had never knew existed.— and it's great to me because I've seen this side of Steph, like, for years. And to see him, like, outwardly own everybody and own— outwardly own his situation. Normally he quietly does it. You saw the celebration after the ring. I read the lips. You know, we know what he said. Or not after the ring, when we was about to get the ring. It was just a totally different Steph. And then you got Klay, who, I mean— The guy completely tackles some woman.

In the boat, in the boat, yeah.

On the way to tackle the woman, he loses his hat in the water. He loses his championship ring. And the reality is, is that kind of sums up Klay. Like, he'll lose his head if it's not attached to his shoulders. But like, that's Klay. Like, Klay's the guy who will wake up for practice late, look at the clock like, "Ah, I'm already late, I'm just not going." Like, and so to see those two guys in that element, Like, surprise, surprise, I was cussing everyone out. Surprise, like who? But you didn't expect that from, I mean, I expected that from Klay, but you didn't expect that really from those two guys. And like I said, when he tripped over the thing, the reason that's the moment of the parade, 'cause if he does not hit that woman, he's fucked up.

Right.

No, there was like, All right, somebody help me out. On the street there's like these little vents, you know, they all—

Grates.

Grates, yeah, so they got 'em in San Francisco in the middle of the street. He's on that, like he's about to fall on that and then he hits this woman and crush her and she fall on it. So, like that had to be the time of the parade. I gotta go co-MVP for Stephen Clay, I have to.

Speaking for yourself, did you have a favorite Fuck you.

My favorite fuck you was my daughter sitting on the side of the float like. [LAUGHTER] That was my favorite during the parade. My favorite since the parade and all of this is Skip Bayless.

Yeah.

Everybody agree? Like, fucking guy sucks. [APPLAUSE] No. My favorite after parade was the podcast yesterday. 'Cause I called Jackson. Jackson's fucking on vacation somewhere. And I'm like, Jackson, I called him, I text him on like Thursday or Friday, I'm like, Jackson, we really need to do a podcast. Now mind you, Jackson's been hitting me up since Sunday. Jackson, I can't think straight, I just won a championship, you probably shouldn't hit me on Sunday. It's even before the parade, just getting back from Vegas. But nonetheless, so then I finally hit Jackson back on Thursday or Friday, I'm like, Jackson, we really need to do a podcast. And he's like, ah, I think it'll be cool if we just do it on Monday. At the show, and I'm like, "Yeah, Jackson, I kinda have a lot of shit to say, and I really need to do this podcast." He's like, "Yeah, but I'm kinda on vacation." Like, "All right." So, we did the podcast yesterday morning, and it was absolutely, I thought it was amazing. I hope everyone else thought it was amazing.

Woo!

But, to absolutely destroy Skip Bayless, I never see the rebuttal, but I'm sure he was as shitty as he was when Stephen A just crushed him last week. He looked like he was about to cry when he was responding to Stephen A. But the reality is, the reason you should believe Stephen A, number one, he's a real guy, and I'm not just saying it, 'cause that's my guy. But Shannon actually saved the guy when he went to the next network. So when Stephen A comes out and say, "No, this show was suffering." and I came on and saved it, you'd be a fool not to believe that because the show was suffering and Shannon came on and saved it. So I enjoyed that more than anything. He wanted to throw it out. You got to take them punches if you're going to dish them, brother.

One thing to note is Stephen A. said all this stuff about Skip Bayless on The Old Man and Three. I just wanted to make that—

Hey, now.

I just wanted to make that point.

Hey, now.

Stephen A. also said some— Similar things on different interviews. And by the way, we will at some point over the next hour touch on new media. I don't want to go there quite yet. You mentioned Steph as the co-MVP, and I want to kind of go there. And Steph and I, I've been very vocal about this. Like, Steph is my favorite player of this generation. He was a guy that, you know, I obviously admired. I love competing against. I love the joy that he plays with and all that stuff. Game 4—

Mm-hmm.

Early, and then Game 6 at the end—

Mm-hmm.

When he was crying, the emotions that he showed, the intensity in Game 4 early in the game, the crying at the end— I have to think, and you're his teammate, I have to think that this championship meant a little more to him. Whether that had anything to do with Kevin Durant in '17 and '18, or whether it was him not winning the MVP in 2015, I'm not sure what it was. It just seemed like at this moment in his career, this one meant a little bit more.

I think it definitely did. Number one, the emotion from him in Game 4 I selfishly think, and no one's gonna stop me from thinking this, I selfishly think it was in protection of me. I struggled so bad in game 3. I was a fucking disaster. And the reality is,— I was a little rattled. And I'm never rattled on an opposing— I was a little— 'cause it was just unexpected. Like, you expect the boos. You expect, you know, people screaming at you and yelling. But I never expected 21,000 people to be yelling, "Fuck you, Draymond!" Like— And then you're running down the court, and on the sideline it's, "Fuck you, bitch!" And I'm like, "Whoa!" Like, these guys are short of saying everything except the N-word. Almost. It's like— and so I was a little thrown off by it on top of I was struggling playing. And so what you dive into is your struggling playing. I mean, is your game. But I couldn't really dive into that. I was struggling. And so I'm like, wow. And I think he visibly saw that. And so I think the emotion coming out of Game 4, I told him at the end of Game 4, for all the people that say Steph and Klay carried you to a championship, I'm like, "Great, thanks, I got 4 of 'em." But at the end of game 4, on the court, I said, "Thank you, 'cause they were going to fucking destroy me. Like, I appreciate it." And he's like, "Nah, nah, you know what's up. Like, this is what it is." And so now fast forward into game 6 and the overall feeling for him. Listen, we know the day and age we live in. We know how important the media is. You know, we always speak on new media and all this stuff, but the media is important. Like, I always say, it baffles me that media doesn't look at this thing as a partnership. Because the reality is, our thing don't work without them. It does not grow to be doing $8 to $10 billion of revenue or whatever it's doing without the media. On the flip side, they had nothing to talk about during COVID when no one was playing. So none of this works without the other. And it baffles me that it's not viewed as more of a partnership. And I felt that for Steph, he's been ridiculed. And you're talking to a guy who does nothing wrong. Like if you say, yo, show me the model citizen. Yeah. I can show you Steph Curry and show you the model citizen, like, that just doesn't do much wrong at all. And he's been ridiculed, talking about his legacy, he has no Finals MVPs, blah, blah, blah. As much as you don't show you feel that, you feel it. And I know he felt it. And so to go on, Here's another thing before I go on. I think the ultimate sign of respect that you can show someone is to invite them into your home. Like, that's the ultimate respect you can give me is to open the door to your home for me. And Steph, I felt like, opened the door to his home for Kevin. And Kevin came in and goddammit, this is home for you too. We all brothers. None of this stuff works without Kevin. We all know that. But for me to open— for me to open this door for you, and you come home, and then it's successful, I feel like that should just go on and on and on and on. And then you kind of just abruptly exit, you know, and then you look, you know, then you have to remember the details. Steph flying from Japan, redirects his plane to not go to San Francisco, to come to New York, only to find out on Instagram an hour before he landed that Kevin was coming to the Brooklyn Nets. I think it's all of those emotions wrapped up into one. And, and what you get is a Steph Curry talking more shit than me. And it's great. And I absolutely love it. So, so there—

There's, there's two parts to this. That partnership, right? There's all the things you talked about with Steph. And for Steph Curry fans, Golden State Warriors fans, I think the fact that he hadn't won a Finals MVP, despite the fact that— I say this all the time, you know, he's the only guy that has been 25-5-5 for the Finals-winning team and not won MVP. He did that 3 times prior to this year. So he's been great in the Finals.

Absolutely.

So some of that was because of LeBron's performance in '15, obviously Iggy being great in that series, starring in his role but not being the guy.

Absolutely.

And, and because of that, those 4 votes that went to LeBron, like, they didn't go to Steph or whatever. There is a part of this though where because you guys had won before and now that you've won after, Kevin maybe doesn't get enough credit for '17 and '18, at least from my perspective. And I want to get your opinion on that.

Well, I think, number one, going back to 2015, Andre was absolutely amazing. And I think what it came down to when it went— when discussing— like the Finals MVP was— I'm not sure if everyone remembers that Game 6 that Andre had for us to win. But every time they made a run, he hit a big 3. Right wing, right corner. And then obviously he was guarding LeBron. Now, I think people will look at it and say, but look at LeBron's numbers. But what people doesn't understand is you never shut these guys down. Like, you don't. Like—— you're not gonna look and say, "Oh man, he held LeBron to 17 points." Like, no one fucking holds LeBron to 17 points. Like, your job is to make it tough. And I think Andre made it very tough. And then he had a couple games offensively that he was lights out. So then Steph doesn't go on to win, and LeBron's performing incredible, and all of those things. But then you fast forward to 2017 and I don't think the outside world gave Kevin enough credit. I think if you came within our organization, Kevin was given all the credit because quite frankly, Steph Curry doesn't care. Like, he would have never opened the door to his home to you if he did care because guess what we know? We know Kevin Durant is absolutely incredible. We know Kevin Durant is a superstar. So if I open my home to you, I'm already accepting the fact that I'm sharing my light with you. I'm sharing my stage with you. Clearly, it's totally fine. And I think for us within the organization, we did everything we could to make Kevin comfortable. We did everything we could to let him know— Draymond Green. Just like this our home, this is your home too, brother. But the outside world did it. The outside world, he's joining a team that won 73 games. He's, he's joining a team that already won a championship and blah, blah, blah. But the reality is, is I don't think that team wins another championship if Kevin doesn't come. Now, you may say, oh yeah, but y'all won the fourth one without Kevin. But there's a gap in there. Yeah. Where teams started to figure us out. And—

Would you guys have beat Houston?

Yes.

Those two years without Kevin?

Yeah, we was beating them for sure. That team was never going to beat us. It just was not going to happen.

What about the Cavs then?

We would not have beat the Cavs coming back around without Kevin. And here's why. Teams have figured us out, and I personally don't think at that point Steph Curry had figured out, "I'm going to get a bucket whenever I want to." I don't think he was capable of that yet. I think he was still growing into that. And so because of that, once teams started to figure our offense out, we were starting to struggle more and more. I'm not sure if you remember that series of OKC. Yeah. Where we were down 3 to 1 and we had to come back. And that's because teams have started to figure it out. And so what then in turn ended up happening was Steph still creates all the havoc that he fucking creates. Like I tweeted, Steph faced so many double teams and Draymond didn't. That's a fact. Like you can go look at the numbers or just watch the game if you can analyze the game better than Skip Bayless. And if you watch the game, then you see that Steph's getting double-teamed and Ty Lue then goes publicly and say, I'm double-teaming Steph Curry every chance I get. Kevin wasn't getting double-teamed, but the reality is, is we got to a point where we needed to be able to give someone the ball that can just go get a bucket. And Kevin was already there. I don't think Steph was there yet. So it gets us through those 2 years. We get those— we get those 2 championships. But while we're doing that, Steph is continuing to work and evolve and most importantly, becoming the strongest dude on our team. And to this day, he's the strongest guy on the team. And that allowed him to score whenever he wanted because you can no longer bump him off his path. Like, I think about the Dray against Al Horford when he was picking on Al Horford in the fourth quarter of Game 6.

Game 6.

You think about the drive that he had where he boom, boom, boom. And then he just drove. Al Horford's riding his hip and he just lays the ball up. Normally Al Horford would bump him off his path and he's ended up shooting a runner. He couldn't bump him off his path. And that's where Steph turned the corner and he became unstoppable. And now we're able to continue winning championships because he's unstoppable.

And you think that process started while Kevin was there or after Kevin left?

I think it definitely started when Kevin was there because in 2019 was when Steph really locked in on the weight room. And so that's where he kind of starts taking that bump and kind of bumping it up a little bit. And although it didn't show immediately because then 2020 we were terrible and he broke his hand, you started to see in 2021 we were still terrible, but Steph was carrying us and he carried us to a playing game and we didn't get past it. It was probably great because we would have got swept and that would have been the first series we ever got swept. So thank God we didn't make it. Yeah. But I think you started to see it then, that growth and like, oh man, nobody can stop this dude now. And I think that really changed the complexity of our organization. And I'm pretty certain that's why we'll win 3 of the next 4 NBA championships.

I wanted to— Draymond, I wanted to ask you about— I want to ask you about Game 6. What is it like, the 21-0 run in particular? What is it like to suck the life out of an opposing arena in a closeout game?

Oh my God. There's no better feeling than going into an opposing team's gym and quieting the crowd. But let me rephrase that. There used to be no better feeling. Than going into an opposing team's arena and quieting the crowd. But quieting those fucks— [LAUGHTER] That took the cake because they were so loud, Game 3. And then Game 4, they got humbled, but they were so loud. And then coming into Game 6, like, you just knew. Coming into Game 6,— they tried to get a "Let's go Celtics" chant going in the warmups, and they might as well have been in a G League gym. [LAUGHTER] 'Cause it, I mean, the sound of it was like, are they cheering? Like, they stopped the music, and now they did this a couple games before, and like they stopped the music, and it's like, oh my God, it's loud in here. But like, they tried to chant it, and you could have heard us three doing the podcast. Quiet as it was in there, it was absolutely amazing. So now the best feeling in the world is going to the Boston Celtics TD Garden and quieting the crowd. It does not get much better than that. Does not.

You know, we've done three of these live shows and we always like to have a visual component to these live shows. So we have actually prepared a video. Unfortunately, We all have to get up while the screen rolls down, Draymond. And, you know, Mad Dog and I on Stephen A.'s show, First Take, we had some disagreement about Draymond Green and his antics. But I just thought we could put together a compilation just from this year's playoffs of some of— Oh, yeah. Draymond Green's antics. Here comes Gordon as we cross the 5-minute mark. Green on Sunday for the first time in his career. Yeah. Second right there, Draymond Gordon just kind of threw the ball. Final decision goes—

Hey, I'm holding him up, man. Oh, this was great. Big fuck you.

He's gonna wreak havoc.

He just runs right through him. I'm not sure. I'm not giving it to him.

What a fight this series is.

Brown took exception to Green's legs being on him as he fell. Grant Williams says Draymond Green Y'all don't be seeing these guys picking with me, man. This is ridiculous. That's incredible, right? That's amazing.

Draymond, I want to get into some of these specific plays in a second. I think the most obvious place to start here is why are you such a dick?

Well, that's a nice way of saying it. It does. It does. The reality is, is I used to be a dick. A big dick. I used to be. I've changed. But because I used to be such an asshole, I think people still feel the need to pick with me because coming in, in their mind, they think I'm coming in to be an asshole. Like there's guys that I used to bully, like literally bully in the league. And like over the last couple years I've changed so much that I'll walk up to 'em and be like, "Yo." And they be like, "Ah." And I'm like, "No man, I'm just coming to say how you doing? Like what's up brother? Like you all right?" They're like, "Ah, yeah man, I'm good. How are you?" And then it's a big smile. So then you see like Grant Williams is picking with me the entire series. I'm from Saginaw, JJ, that's why I'm a dick, I don't know.

With the Memphis series in particular, do you respect all the shit that they talk, or is there part of you where like, you guys haven't earned it?

Oh no, I love it. I think it's absolutely incredible. I love them talking shit. I think it's great. I've spoke on the podcast before about Memphis, being oblivious to the situation. Like, they're young. No, I'm serious. It's not an insult. It's actually a compliment. They're young and they don't know how big these moments are, so they're just oblivious to it. We've been there before where you're just in the moment and you're playing and like, I'm in my third year, we competing for a championship and like, you just in that moment. Like, you don't know how big this moment is. You don't even know to get nervous because you don't understand how big how big the moment is. And so I've said that about Memphis, like those young guys, they're unfazed by anything. And a large part of the reason that they're unfazed is because they just don't understand how big the moment is. Now, talking shit to the team that won a championship after they beat you after they win a championship is an entirely different level of oblivion. [LAUGHTER] Like, it doesn't get— much more oblivious than that. And I think for them, you're now going to be expected to do that. You're now going to be expected to win these games. And it's not as easy when teams are coming for you. And so I think now they're going to get their reality check. And it's not that they will still be able to win. They may still be able to win, but they're going to realize how much harder it is for them to win. And now, because they're talking the way they're talking, they better lose that oblivion because they better understand these moments now are huge. Like, you know, I love Ja. I love his demeanor. I love how he carry himself. I think being true and authentic to yourself is like— It's real. The way to go. You've shown that. You've shown that. I've shown that in this space. Like, being true to yourself. Authenticity is what sells. Everyone say controversy. Authenticity sells. Authenticity is why Stephen A. sells, not because he creates controversy. If that was the case, Skip Bayless would sell. But authenticity sells. And so I absolutely love, uh, Ja Morant and everything that he stands for. But now you're gonna be expected to do that. And don't go out there oblivious. You better understand these moments. 'Cause you go out there talking, talking about, yeah, come to, I mean, to show you the level of oblivion, by the way, Ja told me on Twitter, "Yeah, bring them to the M for Christmas." Fuck no, nobody's coming to Memphis for Christmas, number one. Number two, the champs don't travel for Christmas. And I know everybody, you know, when you tweet under— I said shout out to LJ. Like, Bron changed that rule years ago where you win the championship, you play at home. So maybe we'll see them kids in the Bay for Christmas Day. I'll invite them over for dinner. They can have dinner with me and my family after we beat them on Christmas Day, if that game happens.

I said this a few times during the playoffs. While they were still playing. So through the first round, through the second round, not in the same way, but like eerily similar in some ways to our '09 Magic team that made the Finals. It's like the first time a group goes through something and like has the capability to win a conference to get to the Finals, it's hard to gauge them and assess them in real time. And then of course, you know, they lose to you guys.

Hey, there go Mr. Goodallah. Hey, there we go. On Black people time, just like here.

ET is here too.

ET, what's up, man?

ET, what's up, man?

Point Forward Podcast.

I know, Point Forward Podcast. But it's hard to gauge them in real time, right?— and then, of course, they lose to you guys. But when you look towards next year, sort of like— you said you're gonna win 3 of the next 4. Great for you. I hope you do. But when you look forward in the Western Conference and you think about threats, where do you see threats?

Clippers.

Clippers.

Knicks.

The Knicks. Wow. Wow. Where do I see threats? He said the West, all right? Can we leave the Knicks in Brooklyn out of this? He specifically did that so y'all don't boo me off the stage, by the way. Where do I see threats in the West? So I could be Memphis and be oblivious to it, or I could understand that they're a threat but not a problem. Memphis is a threat because, like, they're young and talented. Now, will they keep that together? Because I think a huge part of them is, like, their camaraderie and being young all together. But then you see they just traded D'Anthony Melton, you know? So you start to see those pieces get pulled out, and it's, it's not the same vibe. So then can they recapture that? But they're a threat. Yeah. Not a problem, but a threat. The Clippers got Ty Lue as their coach, who I arguably—

Thank you.

Is arguably, I mean, I have a great coach myself, Steve Kerr. But for the sake of the old media debates, Ty Lue is arguably one of the best coaches in the NBA. Arguably the best, you know, someone can make that argument. And then they have great players, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, the guys that they're filling in around them with. You go pull a trade off and get Robert Covington and— Norman Powell. Norman Powell. And you already have Marcus Morris there and Reggie Jackson. They're a real threat. Batum may, probably will resign there. Like, that's a real threat and a problem. Like, they're a threat and a problem. But other than that—

Were you surprised? Were you surprised Dallas got there?

I'm sorry. Dallas is a threat because they have one of the best players to play. And when you have, like— by all means, don't get it twisted. There were a lot of reasons we won the Finals, but We had the best player on the court every series we played in. So your chances of winning goes through the roof. In most series that Luka Dončić plays in, he's gonna be the best player on the floor. So because of that, you'll always give yourself a chance. And then they got Nico Harrison, who, I mean, you and I both know how Nike negotiate, and that was Nico negotiating those contracts. So they got Nico doing the job with J-Kidd, And, and I think their secret ingredient to their thing is Jared Dudley. Jared Dudley is one of the smartest guys that I've been around when it comes to basketball. And, you know, Duds is very smart. So I think that's their secret ingredient. So Memphis— I mean, Dallas is a threat. Can't quite say they're a problem yet, but they are 100% a big threat. Memphis is a little threat. Dallas is a big threat.

I want to actually go back for a second because I did have a question about those videos. When you're on the ground, why do you try to pull people's pants down?

You know what—

No, there's a legit reason. I want you to explain it.

It's the same reason I got kicked out of the fucking NBA Finals. No man is just gonna step and stand over me. I'm sorry. I have a kid watching at home. Well, my kids at most games. But like, how am I supposed to explain to DJ "Uh, Daddy, why is that dude standing over you while you laying on the ground?" Like, "Uh, 'cause it's—" Like, I can't explain that. But what I can explain is why I'm pulling up on him because he's standing there. I can explain that. You know, I don't want my two daughters seeing a guy standing over me. I can't respect that. And so why do I pull the shorts is because my core isn't tight enough to just get myself up. So I use the shorts to get me up. Leverage.

Yeah.

You need leverage. Pulling shorts to get me up. But I'll tell you what about pulling shorts. When Jaylen Brown went in the media and said he tried to pull my shorts down, I knew I took his heart. I knew I took his heart. And not that I'll have it next year, I gotta regain it next year and next time we play him. But I knew for the rest of that series I had him. Because you know you're standing over me and you gonna go to the media and say he was trying to pull my shorts down. Like, come on, bro, you standing over me. Own it. I gotta tell all these, stand on that. You gotta stand on business. And when he said, oh, turn your alarm off, man. We're pretty cool. We're pretty cool. We are pretty cool. When he said he's trying to pull my, it's two things that Jaylen Brown went to the media and said. And one thing these young guys are gonna learn, like, hey man, you better pay attention to what you say because somebody else is watching. He said he tried to pull my shorts down. I said, yep, I got him. It reminded me a lot of, you remember the clip of Alonzo Mourning and Dennis Rodman, and Dennis Rodman's talking to him, and Alonzo like, this motherfucker is crazy. When he said that, I said, oh yeah, I got him. But another thing he said, and I sent it to our team, he said, we are not afraid of the Golden State Warriors. I sent it to our team in a group chat and said, we are afraid of the Golden State Warriors, 'cause nobody asked you, are y'all afraid of us? Why the fuck are you talking about that? He's like, we are not afraid of them. We will do this and we'll do that. I knew at that point, I'm like, yup, this is baby food and this is over and we're gonna walk on outta here with a championship. So to answer your question, I answered your question. I pull up on the shorts 'cause I got no other way of getting up and I can't just lay there and like— Imagine if I was trying I'm trying to get up like this while the guy's stepping on me. So it's all over, and that's how I gotta get up. So I pull myself up, and it works. It works.

It looks worse in slow-mo. It honestly does. It looks worse in slow-mo.

Well, one thing we are certain of is the NBA definitely reacts to social media, and so y'all make sure y'all blast that clip of me saying I got bad core and I'm pulling up on the shorts to get myself up, so when it happen next year, they won't suspend me.

My second question about that video, very specifically, when you fouled Jaylen Brown and you decided to move your legs to the right and rest them on his shoulders instead of just naturally going to the left, it seemed— it seemed like you decided at the beginning of game Game 2 that you were just gonna be an asshole that night? And I want— 'cause I actually have said this on ESPN, on the podcast, it seemed like after Game 1, you guys lose, you didn't play particularly well, you admitted that on the podcast, going into Game 2, you were like, "I'm just gonna wreak havoc no matter what." Yeah.

I also told y'all I was going to. I was shocked at the reaction of everyone after Game 2 because I told y'all. What they say? They're watching your podcast and taking clues. Well, damn it, I told y'all I was gonna act a ass going into Game 2 'cause I was awful in Game 1. The reality is that I wasn't really awful, but you know, we drove that, I drove that, and so I'll take that. I told y'all, like, I was soft, we were soft. We let them come in our house and get a win. We hadn't lost at home. I felt like I could go out there and bully them a little bit. And sure enough, I was. And I hear their coach on the sideline yelling, "Stop talking to him! Why are y'all talking to him? Just stop, leave him alone. Don't get into that with him." And I said, "You know what? I need to do more." And everybody's like, everybody's like, "Slow down, you're gonna get ejected." I told my mom, I said, "Ma," and my fiancée, by the way, I blame my Game 3 performance on them. They dogged me after that game, like, "Why are you like this? It's ridiculous, you need to carry yourself better," blah, blah, blah. And so, I knew, that I told my mom, I said, "Ma, we are better off with me getting ejected and causing a bunch of havoc than we are me just going out there and playing soft and going through the game and me staying in the game." Because if I get ejected on that type of time, our team can win. I got benched in Game 4, we still won. Like, our team can win, but I'mma make sure I get them on that type of time. And so for me, it was like, I'mma just go in and I'mma create this mindset of just totally disrespect these dudes and destroy them. And if I can create the mindset, whether I get ejected or not, we're better than them. They're gonna just keep this going and we'll win this game whether I get thrown out or not. So that was how I felt and I rolled with it. And I mean, I don't think I deserved to get kicked out though, which most people said I did, but. It is what it is.

Did you think it was easier at all 'cause these guys had not been there before versus like when you're playing the Cavs and they know what you're about to do?

Well, it's easier because we're not playing LeBron James. Like, right Andre? Andre know. Like, they asked me a question. They asked me a question in the press conference like how does the IQs rank against the Boston and LeBron? Shut up. What are we talking about? It's easier because you're not playing LeBron James, who is like the ultimate mastermind in our game. And so you're not playing that chess match with him. And like, it's a lot easier to play chess match with anybody else. But against LeBron, it's different. And Bron can prepare his guys for what's to come. Al Horford couldn't prepare them for what was to come. Yeah. So you know that going in and you know, no disrespect to Al Horford.

Al Horford catching strays. Al Horford catching strays. I'm just saying.

Well, Al Horford also did this in game 1. And then he did it in game 6 and I laughed at him when they lost. But like, they didn't know what to expect. And like going into that, being in the Finals 5 times, like, you understand what to do with your family. You know, you understand what to do with your friends. Like, you understand all these things. I put my kids in a— on a totally different floor in the hotel room because you just need to stay locked into that moment. And so I knew, I knew that they weren't truly ready and prepared for that moment. And I knew we would be able to lean on that. And sure enough, we did. Draymond Green.

After Game 3, you guys lose. It seemed like Boston was the younger team, the bigger team, the more athletic team.

I know y'all all said it.

Faster, stronger, bigger, more athletic.

Yeah, I just heard that shit.

People said it. I may have said it as well.

What changed? Sorry, I'm not lumping you in with them.

No, what changed though? Like, because we can get into pick and roll coverage and and the turnovers and all that stuff. But what changed Game 4, Game 5, Game 6?

Number one, Game 4, I figured out if you sit most of those guys left, it was not good. And so, that I thought was a huge adjustment for us. And like, shading them guys to their left hand. Because, they were so dangerous going right and they were just getting us in the right slot, driving the basketball. You have to come over to help. They're kicking it out and now your whole defense is broken down. And that's what they were doing. And so I'm like, I'm gonna try to force them left, see what they do. They start dribbling that bitch off their foot and like all type of stuff. So I'm like, okay, we got something here. This is great. But what really changed was We knew game 1, they shouldn't have won that game. We gave it away. They got hot. Everybody like went up in arms and I was like, those 3 guys were the ones that was making shots. We'll be all right. But like, you know that, like it reminds me of in game 7 when I had that incredible game 7 after I got suspended. Like that's all fine and dandy and that's great. But if Steph and Klay not making shots, It's going to be hard for us to get over the hump. Well, I got 33 or 39. It's going to be hard for us to get over the hump if they're struggling.

I think it was 32, 15, 7.

Oh, great. 32. I don't know. I never watched that game. Fuck that game. But like, if those two don't got it because we all feed off of them. So if I'm scoring, they can't feed off that. But if they're scoring, the whole defense overreacts and then we all feed off of that. And I thought for those guys, they didn't. Now you look at those games that they won and I'm like, ah, like we should have won both of these games. But going into Game 4, we knew that the only thing we had to do was force them to beat us, not beat ourselves. We beat ourselves in Game 1. We beat ourselves in Game 3. Let's force them to beat us. And they weren't capable.

We are going to bring up a special guest real quick to talk about new media. The reason that we did not bring up this guest earlier in the show is because he can talk for a long time.

Woof!

And I didn't want him to be a distraction for the show. So if he's around, Can we bring on Stephen A. Smith, please?

This is about to get good. About to get good.

What up, y'all?

What's going on? What up? Uh-oh, they like the new media in here.

They didn't cheer for you.

I think— you know what? I'm going to be honest with you guys. I think that Stephen A. deserves a better applause than that. Let's give this man some love.

Let's give him some love.

Absolutely. I appreciate it, but I thought that first applause was good enough. I was good with it. I was good with it.

Before we get to the new media, is there anything that Draymond has said so far that you disagree with?

Well, what you see, here's the thing. Draymond Green's my dude, man. You know, I mean, he— listen, I don't have to agree with him. I agree with him most of the time. I truly do. You know, when he talk about my man Skip Bayless, we slightly disagree with that, you know. But, you know, as I've told Skip on several occasions,— you know, and Skip ain't scared to eat it, you know. Just because that's my man, he's the one that brought me on First Take, I'mma always have some love for him, but that don't mean I agree with everything that he says. And so, when a player claps back at him the way Russell Westbrook did the other day, or whatever, or Draymond did, or others have done, you gotta handle that. You know, and that's one of the things that, you know, I've often told people on First Take, you know, this is a place for authenticity. You cannot talk about people and then get sensitive when they talk about you. Now, you can address what they say. That's entirely different than trying to address who they are.

Right.

And so I'm very, very specific about that.

Honestly, that's one of the things that I truly respect about you. I get pissed off when media start talking about all this other shit, punching guys in the face and like all this other stuff. And my whole cry about all of this, or not cry 'cause I am nice, but it's let's talk about basketball. Right. Like if we can talk about basketball, that's the discussion, that's what the topic should be. Let's keep it basketball. And I think so many times, And when I speak of the new media and everybody's like, oh, but no one wants to just hear you talk X's and O's. It's not just X's and O's, but it's a way you go about your business. It's a mindset of how you go about your business. And it's the reason that on the podcast I said, Stephen A, you kind of part of the new media too.

You got me there.

You know, there's some stuff that you do.

I was personally shocked he puts you as part of the new media. I was shocked.

Oh, for sure.

You don't know me that well, JJ.

The reality is, and I'm not just saying this because you sat here because I've said it when you're not sitting here, you tell the truth. Good, bad, or indifferent, whether you like the truth or not, you tell the truth. Now, he do get to doing some of that old media stuff sometimes and we have to get on him about that. But there's a real appreciation for how you go about your business and most importantly, What I appreciate and what I don't appreciate quite about others is there's not much authenticity to others, but you're authentic, and I appreciate that, and I applaud that.

I appreciate you, man. Thank you. I would say this. He got me there, you know, because he was like, Steve, my friend, you part of the new media too. And then he broke down the definition of new media, and I was like, I was like, damn, he's right, he's got a point. You know, he got me there because, you know, you got a lot of folks in media and one of the things that I try to encourage folks is listen, I played college ball and I got injured, but even if I was 100% healthy, I couldn't shine y'all's shoes. That's just a fact, okay? I wasn't gonna get to the NBA. I wasn't good enough, damn it, period. There are things that pro athletes know that we don't know because y'all experience it, You in the locker room, you know what goes on. What I try to do is make sure you know, as I told you, JJ, it's not that I know what you know, it's that I know enough because I've been reporting on the game for decades to say, wait a minute, there's more to this story. You gonna give it to me or not? That's the key. You— the problem is you got too many people in media that want to act like they know what you know.

Facts.

No, you can't compete with dudes that are actually doing it. What you can do is say, covering the sport and giving you an overview, following it, reporting on it, cultivating resources, given— being given intel, learning what you learn. Okay, this is what I know, this is what I've heard. What you got to say about that? See, when you do that, then y'all have nowhere to go. Now, when you talk about where I would get on Draymond about is when, when Cedric Maxwell, for example, said what he said about Cedric Maxwell is a former player, right? And I don't think Cedric was saying, hey, he would have punched you in the face. He was talking about the culture that existed in the '80s. Now, the media will bring that up. Now, if the media sits up there and says they would do it, or they should, that should happen to you, that's crossing the line. But if they said "well, back in the day, the way that they played, that would have happened." You got guys that would take it as if the media is saying, "That's what they would do." And I'm like, "Well, if you gonna be critical, listen to what—" Not that you didn't do that, 'cause you did listen. But you got a lot of cats that they don't listen. They'll read the headline. You didn't read the article, you didn't watch the clip. Your boys came up to you, family members, whomever, and they come up to you saying— I can't tell you how many times somebody came at me and I was like, Did you see what I said? Did you hear it? Did you appreciate it in context? 'Cause you want context when we talking about you. What about context when you coming back at me? And so, but the key is not to run. See, where you lose is when you never go to the games, when you never talk to the athletes, when you never talk to the coaches, the executives, or anybody, and then you just want to go out there and run your mouth. I pride myself in not being hard to find. Fine. Anybody who's ever worked with me knows the only reason you don't see me in the locker room is because damn it, they got me to do many shows and I just don't have the time to get to— and the only time I— the only place I have time to get to is the Knicks, and I'll be damned if I'm going to the Knicks game for so much. I'm not gonna let them depress me any more than they already have.

That's Stephen, I appreciate you trying to be self-deprecating about your basketball skill, but let's acknowledge you once made 17 threes in a row.

And, you know, when Winston-Salem State brought me down, that's how I got my scholarship. I drilled 17 threes in a row and never made a damn jump shot since. But that day, I was all world.

Show up in the moment.

It got me a full scholarship.

Draymond, just for— For everybody here, and obviously, you know, people who are gonna listen to our podcast this week and see our videos on YouTube, you beautifully explained new media, and I have the quote on my phone, but I would like you to just kind of explain, 'cause I said this on your show.

He did, he did.

10 days ago, I said I would love for Draymond to explain what new media is. Can you explain what it is?

100%. Most people think, And I know that was kind of the perception of the media as well when I first started saying like, the new, by the way, the leader of the new media is JJ Redick, just so y'all know, it's not me. This guy on TV every day holding it down. So I got a lot of appreciation for JJ, but.

He picked against you, but go ahead.

I know, that's totally fine.

See, I don't. I didn't change my pick mid-series. I don't have a problem.

I don't have a problem with somebody picking against us. Stand on it, be knowledgeable, and don't just pick against you because you're a hater. Don't pick against us because you're a hater. And so that's what I have a problem with. There's no hate there. He had analysis that shit was wrong, but he did analyze. And so he gotta give him some credit.

I admit I was wrong, Draymond.

I admit I was wrong. The way you talk about me Dick, I gotta get you back. But the new media, and like I said, everyone thought, I'm speaking like, oh, athletes doing podcasts, or athletes doing media. Like, athletes been doing podcasts. JJ Redick, CJ McCollum, athletes been doing media. Like, you've been seeing athletes go up on a stage and try to debate with Stephen A. He tried to get me up there. I'm no fool. I didn't go to law school. I'm not going up there. —but I'll go on the Stephen A. Show. I'm not going to debate on First Take. But the new media, the new media, I think when you look at the game of basketball, what's been lost is I can turn on the TV and I can learn about the game of basketball. I can get the X's and O's and the ins and outs and the understanding that there's a game within the game. See, most fans don't understand that there are so many little games within the game, and if you don't understand them, you'll miss them. And so when I said the new media, I'm saying analyzing these things, talking about the game and understanding, giving flowers when flowers is due, and not just trying to bash a guy every chance that I get. Like, no, it's okay to give flowers because you, you think about— the old day and age, like, guys get mad that we hang together or that we work out together. It's the old mindset. And I feel like in media, we see a lot of that same mindset, and you're criticized with that same mindset. And I don't understand it. And so for me, the new media is simple— it's very simple. It's actually analyzing the game of basketball. It's actually giving those flowers when flowers is due. It's being critical. It's not just saying, "Oh man, Steph Curry was great, and when he wasn't great, I'm not gonna speak on it." Be very critical, but tell us the whole truth and break down why Steph Curry wasn't great. Don't just tell me, "Steph Curry was bad. He did this." Or, or you don't say he did this. "He was bad. He was terrible. His legacy is gonna be hurt," and this, that. But why was he terrible? Can you explain that to me? Can you help me, the average fan that don't quite understand on Stephen A's level? He explains, but who don't quite understand on some of the other guys' level. Can you help me better understand what you're saying? And I think that's been lost. And, and, and what's replaced it is titles and headlines and hot takes for clickbait.

There's a flip side to that story.

Hey, now.

Everything that Draymond Green just said to y'all is total truth. It's just that there's more to it. For example, you could know exactly what you're talking about, and because you're not in that locker room, there's a slew of players that'll never admit it. See, what I believe Draymond Green misses is that he's one of the most authentic, real, honest brothers in professional sports. Let me give you the flip side to you and JJ. JJ is an honest dude, a brilliant mind. Absolutely.

Brilliant.

I didn't pay you to say that.

He did not pay me. He did not pay me that.

To say these nice things about me. I want to be clear on that.

I'm giving him that for free. So much so, I can tell you right now, there are people who absolutely, positively positively love the ground that JJ walks on. And then there are people that despise him when they watch him on television because they think he's just so arrogant. And I'm going like this. He's incredibly knowledgeable. He knows it. And he's not apologizing for it. I love it. It works for First Take. It works for television. Why would I want him to be any different? But here's the thing. Draymond is all the things that I mentioned, plus outspoken. JJ's the kind of person that, on depending on his mood on a particular day, he'll explain, and on another day, I don't feel like talking to your ignorant ass. Now he won't say it, but that's his attitude.

I say it with my body language.

There we go, there we go. He says it with his body language. And so what happens is If you know that, understand there's an abundance of people out there who will come and have some semblance of the truth. But if they're not in that locker room with you, and then everyone they walk into ain't Draymond. And so where do you go from there? You're talking about the game, you've talked to the coach, you've talked to other players, you've talked to an executive, you've watched with your own two eyes, you lean on your level of knowledge from years years of watching the sport and you deduce this opinion. If everyone was like Draymond, Draymond would have— his point would be unimpeachable. The problem is most dudes ain't. And so as a result of it, now you've got the other stuff to lean on. Then there's another point. You do have dudes who paved the way for the Reddicks, the Draymonds, and others.

Absolutely.

They will never admit they pick up the phone or they text and they call Stephen A. And various others, hold them accountable. Say this, say that. Don't let them off the hook. You wouldn't have let us off the hook. Come on now, there's a standard here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So then we sound old school, but what somebody like me, speaking solely for myself in this particular situation, I'm letting the modern-day player know, this is what they saying about you. I'm not telling you who. I'm not even saying they're saying it, but I'm looking at y'all like, Where the hell you think I get this from? Why the hell would I bring up something from 1985? Why would I bring up something from 1990? That's 30 years ago. Why would I do that? I want y'all to know, listen, there's a standard. When they go and they talk to the league, when they go and they talk to other owners, when they go and they talk to other executives and coaches and scouts and player developmental guys and all of this other stuff, they're saying these things about y'all. And a lot of times, A lot of times, I'd say 90% of the time, it's people within the same locker room, people within the same organization. And so when Snoop Dogg came on my radio show one day, 'cause Snoop Dogg and I have talked on many occasions, obviously, he was like, "You ain't selling out, you looking out." That's what he was saying. He's like, "You tipping them off about what they did." I was doing a commercial with Beast Mode, Marshawn Lynch. And he was like, "Yo, man, I didn't know you were this cool. I didn't know." [LAUGHTER] Because I said to him, I'm telling y'all, and I don't have everybody's number, and I don't have time to call everybody, but if I say it, I got it from somewhere. And so what I appreciate is guys like him who are smart enough to know, yeah, he doing his homework, but people calling him, people saying this stuff, he ain't just blowing smoke, because you can read between the lines. And outside of that, again, when you talk about new media, all of that comes with it, because see, for me, I love the phone. Fact that y'all got podcasts. I love the fact that y'all are making noise. I love the fact that y'all are resonating. But you know what I love most? The fact that y'all ain't scared to talk to somebody like me. In other words, let's get it on. You got something on your mind? JJ, JJ, look me dead in my face. I don't know what the hell you talking about. This makes no sense whatsoever. I like— I see you at 10 o'clock. Let's go. That's the way it's supposed to be. And then we end the segment, we smile, give each other a hug, see you tomorrow.

That's the way it's supposed to be.

Dray, at what point in your career did you start to figure this out?

I think I started to figure it out probably like 5 years ago, and I know there's kind of this conception of like Draymond's outspoken, he'll say whatever, but sometimes it takes me a while to come around to things too, and like to let those things out. And that's why I held them in for so long, but that's kind of the same reason why you're seeing this huge eruption now, because I've held these thoughts in for so long. And for me personally, in, in starting to try the media thing out, I'm like, there's a certain way that I want to do it because there's a certain thing that I will want to watch on TV. Yeah. That you can't get much of on TV today. And so there's a certain way that I want to do it. And I've tried to stick to that and follow that game plan. But most importantly, it's just being authentic to myself and where I would challenge Stephen A. and what he just said is—

You guys are getting a free episode of First Take, by the way. Maybe not free because you bought a ticket, but this is the bonus episode.

Where I would challenge Stephen A. is is those guys, and we won't go deep into this today, we'll go deep into this another time, but those guys who's calling from the '80s and guy who played in '85 and '90s is—

Draymond Green.

Those are the same guys that say the league is soft today and it's way softer than it was and not as physical. And like, what's softer is the calls. The players didn't get softer. We didn't stop battling. We didn't stop being physical. What's softer is you pull a little jersey with your pinky and it's a flagrant foul and you're kicked out of the game. Like, that's what's softer. And so you have these guys from the '85 and '90s, Cedric Maxwell, who's like, "Oh, he get punched in the face, and what did I say?" Nothing. But y'all weren't really punching people in the face like that. Like, they act like they was out there fighting like hockey. And they weren't. And so for me, yes, they are calling you, giving you that intel, but it's like exactly what I said in the beginning. Their mindsets are totally different. And I respect those guys. They did pave the way. I appreciate all of them. Like, I'm all for those guys, but their mindsets are totally different.

And we're not leaning on their mindset though. What we're saying is they said it, but what we're really leaning on is is how the league has basically enforced a whole bunch of stuff that has made the game soft.

See, that's where I disagree with you on this, and Draymond and I talked about this earlier. I, again, I told you this 2 weeks ago.

Yeah, you did.

I spent 2 hours one day, 3 hours another day, 4 hours another day. I watched '81 Game 4 Finals, I watched '87 Game 6 Finals, I watched '93, Game 4 Finals when Jordan had 55. I watched this shit every, every minute of the YouTube game. The game is not more physical. Fouls were more physical. You were allowed to get away with harder fouls. The game is not more physical.

I disagree with you about that. People bring up— I'm talking about the fouls.

No, but people bring up hand-checking. Like, people don't even know you couldn't hand-check in a scoring area. You could hand-check from free-throw line to free-throw line. And it wasn't like you could have your hand on a guy for 6 seconds.

It was a touch. No disagreement. Let me say this, and I'm not switching subjects because this is your show, but I'm dying to touch on this with Draymond and you here, and you here, especially you because you brought this up.

Getting flashbacks to 7:30 AM on a Monday morning on a Zoom call with Stephen A. and the producers.

This is hilarious.

Let me tell you the part, Dray, where I don't believe— if I'm wrong, I'm wrong— I don't believe you really experienced this part yet. See, JJ got a taste of this, to be misquoted, completely taken out of context, where they, I mean, wait until, like, new media, I'm laughing when you say this sometimes, and it's not that you're wrong, it's like, he has no idea what is coming. Think about how this man talk now. And they gonna look at that, watch when, they got something about me on social media where JJ Reddick, JJ Redick said this and he put Stephen A in his place about this. JJ Redick was on SportsCenter talking the Sage deal. I was nowhere in the vicinity. The conversation never happened. Nothing. But they used my name for clicks.

Yeah.

So everybody looking, what did JJ check Stephen A about? Then they took quotes from me and they took a piece of quote that I said on First Take. They took a piece of quote that I said on SportsCenter. SportCenter 6 months earlier. They compiled it as if I said it the same day. This is all the stuff. J.J. comes in the first— in the first take whining. That's right, I said it. Whining a couple of weeks ago. They did— that's not the question, and that's not what I said. I said, "Welcome to my world." And that's what y'all are in for. That's all I got to say.

Let's give it up for Stephen A. Stephen A., thank you very much. Appreciate you.

That was great.

Stephen, I mean, entertainer. Draymond, I want to ask you about— it's still ongoing, and so it's tough to talk about. And by the way, Part of media in general is this legacy narrative discourse, and I think there's a difference between legacy and narrative, and we can talk about that or whatever, but I wanted to ask you about the Warriors' legacy, the Big Three's legacy, Steph's legacy. When you guys won Game 5, you passed Tim Duncan, Manu Ginóbili, Tony Parker. Winningest All-NBA trio in Finals history since whatever, 19— I'm terrible at math, 50 years, whatever it was. Of course, you won Game 6, now have 4 chips together. While you're in it, do you think about your legacy? Do you think about Steph's legacy and Klay's legacy?

I think there are times that you sit back and have conversations with people and it'll come up like, oh man, like, wow, you start thinking about it. But when you're in it, it's, it's, it's nearly impossible to appreciate it, you know? And I think one thing that's changed for me over like doing it this time as opposed to before is I've, I've tried to make sure that I appreciate this one. Mm-hmm. One a little bit more. In large part due to I now know it cannot happen again. You know, you go to the Finals for 5 years straight, win 3 of them, probably could have won 5, but nonetheless, win 3 of them, and you just start to think that this is going to happen every year. Like, we'll be back here next year. Like, I've dubbed it the Dubs Invitational, Warriors Invitational. Yeah. But you really believe that, like, we'll be back here next year, no problem. And to go from the NBA Finals to winning 15 games, there's a reality that sets in is that this is not guaranteed and there's a lot of work that goes into getting here. And so I've tried to appreciate this one a lot more, but I— A large part of me feels like the moment you start to appreciate, you start overly appreciating it, you'll never get back there. And so I try to keep my appreciation for it to a minimum. I know most people say, "Nah, man, you gotta enjoy the moment." Like, nah, I'll enjoy it when I'm 40 or 50 or 60. But the risk that I'm not willing to take is overly enjoying it right now and never feeling this again. Like, it's too great of a feeling to do anything that could possibly hinder me from experiencing that again.

When you talk about some of your teammates, guys like Wiggins, for example, and the impact the organization had on them, is that something—

Thank you, Draymond. This is the president.

Sorry to cut you off, Tommy. Just so y'all know, I brought this bottle for JJ. Duke beat my Spartans this year and we bet a bottle of DRC. And I'm always rolling with my Spartans. We wasn't that good, but I still—

It was close, though. We were talking about it.

It was close because Tom is a— that's what he do. I love Coach K. Don't take it personal, J. We want to go better together. Oh, that was a heavy pour.

That was a great pour. So with guys like Wiggins, for example, but Jordan's another example as a young guy. Is that something you can see right away with the organization, them shaping them into being championship-level contributors rather than, you know, what Andre was doing before this or where Jordan was before this?

No, you don't. Quite frankly, they sent Jordan Poole down to the G League bubble last year and he was kind of on his way out of the NBA. And so, you know, you see all the tendency and like, in Jordan's defense, he walked into a shitty situation. He walked into me trying to be the top leader when Andre left. And I had no idea how to be a vet. He walked into Klay totally being away from the team and like rehabbing, and then Steph totally being away from the team and rehabbing. And so the roster that we had, that's the situation that he walked into. No one speaks about that, but he's on his way out. You know, nobody, nobody believed Wiggins was going to be this. I mean, we've seen the narrative and like, When we got Wiggins, I don't think we believed Wiggins was gonna be this. But in the midst of only winning 15 games during that season that Wiggins got traded, what you saw was that he can defend, he doesn't back down from any challenge, he's athletic as hell. And if I can stay on him to try to show him the way and show him what it takes to win, you did believe that he could be a part of it. But you knew there was work that needed to be done because of the situation that he had been in. He had been in Minnesota losing for 7 years.

Mm-hmm.

And so you knew that it was possible, but you didn't quite know 2 things. Number 1, how long would it take? And number 2, when the moment gets the biggest, would that guy be ready for that moment? And both of them, Jordan and Wiggs, they were more than ready for the moment.

I love the fact that Draymond is so competitive. He somehow figures out a way to diss his own teammate because the Timberwolves suck.

They do. They do suck. I have a question.

Go ahead.

For you, JJ. What, like I feel like you've gone on First Take, you've been on Get Up. What was it for you going up there? Because I feel like you were the first one, like I said, the leader of new media. Like I've been doing my thing and all this stuff and speaking to new media, but I feel like you were the first person to go on these stages, on these platforms, and embody that and embrace that. And I don't think it was something you intentionally did. I think it's authentic to you. But in saying that, it's intimidating to go up there and oppose against Stephen A. Like, it— like, he's the greatest at that thing. Like, not often do you have the opportunity to share moments with the greatest at a thing. Yeah. In life. And so he's the greatest at that thing. That's a big intimidating. What was it for you to go on these platforms and speak the way you've spoken and with the confidence? Like, you've won America. Like, everybody wants to see JJ Redick on TV. Like, what was it for you that gave you the confidence to go on and do that?

Except Steph Curry, apparently. Because apparently I'm Steph's biggest hater, even though he's my favorite player. We'll talk about this later. No, there's two things to this. Number one, I can remember my first time on First Take. And by the way, no offense to Stephen A., I had never fucking watched the show before. So I didn't even know it was a debate show. I'm gonna be honest with you.

I didn't even know. But I remember—

My first 2 or 3 times on First Take, and I was only working once a week at the time, 'cause, you know, whatever. You get that pregame jitters, the pregame butterflies. And they're like, 30 seconds, 10 seconds, 7 seconds. Stephen A.'s texting somebody, you know, whatever. I'm looking around. And I remember thinking to myself, I'm talking about sports. I know this as well as anybody. I know basketball as well as anybody. Why would I be nervous? And it just— it's the second the camera came on, it was gone. My second point to something you said about being in the new media, it became very apparent early on, especially once we really— Tommy and I really dove into the podcast. We started doing more longer intros, you know, YouTube Lives, all this stuff where we were really talking about the game. We were talking about things going on in the NBA. And I realized that in some ways, and it's no fault of anyone's, in some ways it is an uphill battle.

Mm-hmm.

And I talked at length about this last week, with the way media works now. And it's not anybody's fault. Like, it's not that people are bad people, but aggregate media exists. And whoever runs those accounts and whoever runs those companies, like, they're okay with being grifters. And that's fine. Like, morally, that's fine for them. But they are. They're stealing shit.

Absolutely.

And then you start talking about old media where Everything comes about, becomes about legacy and narrative and all this stuff. And I just, I viewed it through a lens of what do I actually believe? If somebody disagrees with me, that's fine. Like, do I believe that players today are better than players in the 1950s? Absolutely. I'll say that 150 times. It's not— What? Jay Billis talked about this the other day. Why in every other sport can we accept the fact that players are faster, players are stronger, players are more skilled, but for some reason basketball players stopped being good in 2000? The last 22 years, we just stopped improving? Like, why is that? And so let's push back on that. Let's push back on that.

And like, I disagree with you. I don't—

I agree. I don't go into anything I do being like, "I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna go viral." Facts. 99%, what we do on the podcast, what I do on ESPN, it's all organic. It's authentic, it's who I am. I have no problem being that. It's who you are. And if people disagree with that, and that's why, I've talked about that about you. And if people disagree with that, that's fine. But I like to point it out.

It's one of the most amazing things about your podcast is you get up there, after a game for an hour, hour, 10 minutes, and you just talk and it's just you and it's— and it's— we were talking about this before.

It's so hard to do.

It's so fucking hard to do.

Tommy, that's a great point. Do you like to hear yourself talk?

I'll be 100% honest with y'all. I've never listened to a single podcast like that. Not one. I'll listen to little clips. I'll listen to clips just to see how I sound and like, do I need to sound better? Is there something that I need to clean up? So I'll listen to a couple clips, but I absolutely hate hearing myself talk like on a podcast or on an interview because my voice, like how I hear my voice right now, it don't sound like— And I'll watch a video and I'm like, who the fuck is that talking? Like, that's not how my— like, I hear myself talking right now. My voice sounds totally different than what y'all are listening to, and to me. And so I absolutely hate hearing myself talk, but I love talking. It's a weird thing. It's a very weird thing.

The only person that I know who actually likes the sound of their voice is Stephen A. Smith. I mean, we got 3 NBA guys over there that all have, at different point in times, have had their podcasts. They can attest, they don't like to hear their own voice. It's just Stephen A. Smith. Josh Hart.

Yep. Sup, brother?

Yeah, Josh is here. Y'all, you have been an amazing audience. We appreciate you. Thank you, Draymond. Thank you, Tommy. Thank you, Stephen A. Smith. We appreciate you. Appreciate you guys. Thank you.

Thank y'all. Much love.