Baron Davis and Draymond Green break down ESPN's Top 25 Under 25 list, calling out Tyrese Haliburton at #1 and LaMelo Ball at #12 as misplaced. They say the rankings lack transparent criteria and appear driven by bias rather than measurable performance, and they want to know who voted and why.
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We looking at ESPN 25 Under 25 list. I really hate putting numbers next to people, you know what I mean? But you always, you know, you gotta rank. You got Wemby at 1, top 5, Wemby, Anthony Edwards, Paulo, Franz Wagner, Chet Holmgren. And then after that, Tyrese Halliburton, Maxey, Evan Mobley, Draymond Green, Jalen Williams, and Suggs. That's the top 10. Out of the top 10 is Scottie Barnes, LaMelo, Cade Cunningham, Zion, Brandon Miller, ahead of Zion, Jalen—
Darius Garland.
Yeah, Darius Garland. I mean, obviously the order is wrong.
For sure.
But a lot of times, you know, people are just judging off talent and not off of, what the actual work they putting in. You know what I mean?
1000%. I hate these lists.
Yeah, I was gonna say.
I hate these lists.
Yeah, I hate the lists, dude.
I hate these lists with a passion because, okay, so Dyson Daniels is having a pretty good season, a really good season with Atlanta. Just 2 months ago, No one believed in Dyson Daniels. Now he's 23 on the list.
Yeah.
No Cam Thomas. That's a notable—
That's crazy.
That's a notable one that's been left off.
That is a very notable one.
What justifies Tyrese Halliburton being in front of Jaylen Williams? Because don't get me wrong, I think Tyrese Halliburton is very good player. I think Tyrese, he's obviously an All-Star. I think Tyrese Halliburton, Olympic gold medalist Tyrese Halliburton doing it. He putting it together.
Why isn't he higher?
But when I look at, he is higher than Jaylen Williams. But when I look at, when you say ESPN 25 under 25, I think Jaylen Williams has more upside. Jaylen Williams is 6'9", can pass the ball, can shoot the ball, can get to the cup. 2 weeks ago played center for 2 weeks. And then switches to point guard.
Yeah.
And you see, when I look at stuff like this, I'm just like, but who validates that? Because yes, Tyrese has done more, right?
Mm-hmm.
But Jaylen Williams, I think the upside is way— I think the upside of Jaylen Williams is, by the way, not just Tyrese Halliburton. I think the upside of Jaylen Williams is higher than a lot of people on this list.
A lot of people on the list.
Like, it ain't just Tyrese Halliburton.
I'm just saying. But it's like, think about Tyrese Halliburton. All-Star.
For sure.
Olympic gold medalist.
And he's 7. For sure.
He's 7. So based on accomplishments, right?
It ain't, it clearly ain't based off that.
Yeah, if I'm Tyrese, I'm like, yo, this makes no sense. Why am I 7? When you look at my resume versus everybody else under 25, I got the resume. Wemby, Anthony Edwards, Paolo, I can get with them. But I am also upset that how is LaMelo Ball not number one?
Who's also an All-Star.
He should be number two. If they say, okay, Wemby is, you know, he has the next opportunity to be the most phenomenal. LaMelo Ball, you know, I'm biased, bro. Nobody is fucking with LaMelo Ball.
You hear me? I know you biased.
I know you biased. Hey, there's Steph. You know what I mean? And then when LaMelo came, oh man, LaMelo Ball.
I know you biased. And by the way, I love Mellow Gang. I love Mellow Gang. But BD, don't get off track. This list, bro, like it's just not justified by anything. Okay, so for instance, if we're going to say resume, right, with Tyrese, which again, I'm a big Tyrese fan, so I'm not taking anything from Tyrese. I don't want it to come off that way. But if you're taking resume into account, Darius Garland is also an all-star.
He also all-star.
Zion Williamson is also an all-star.
Yep. Yep.
You know, so you can't necessarily be taking in like the resumes into account because there's non-all-stars higher than all-stars.
Bingo.
And so I just, I hate these lists because—
There is no basis for it, right?
There's like— What's the criteria?
Give me, what is the criteria? Shout out to the Iceman George Gervin. I asked him about Hall of Famers every All-Star weekend. And you know what his response is? What is the criteria?
What is the criteria?
So we have to start having some type of criteria or else, You know, this list don't make no goddamn sense at all.
It don't, it just don't.
I mean, Jalen Johnson having a hell of a year, but he one behind Zion? Like Zion is Zion is Zion, bro. Like what are you guys talking about? Like what is it based on?
And then this list come from ESPN, right? Here's where it gets too contradictory for me. This list comes from ESPN. They say Zion's the 16th best 25 under 25, and I just watched on ESPN last week, Tim McMahon say Zion should be cut. He said the contract, Zion's contract—
Hey bro, I heard that.
—is drawn up so that he is cuttable. He could be released. And then ESPN—
And everybody in the league gonna want him. What are you talking about?
But aside from everybody else in the league want him, the very publication that just has someone from their core group of people that cover this sport.
Yep.
Just has someone up there that said this man should be cut. That same publication then puts him as the 16th best 25 under 25. What is the validate? Like, I hate these lists. They are so stupid, man.
It's just like you just picking names out of a hat. Or are you just asking people around the office like, who are your favorite players? It's almost like, who are your favorite players? That's what it looks like.
1000%.
Who are your favorite players? Rank your favorite players 1 through 25. But like, you know, and not to throw no jabs at ESPN, but goddamn, man. They been doing it for a long time. But as you get, you know, as we get more into this next gen, this new generation, we gotta have some, validation metrics or, you know, they have to reveal who are the people deciding on this vote. But it's good for debate though.
Because they're off, they're way off.
They're way off. They're way off. We ain't gonna argue with you ESPN. We just gonna argue about the list. How about that? And LaMelo Ball is 12. No, Draymond Green. LaMelo Ball is the swag. He is the swag. He is, he is, who on there got the, got, who got game swag? Wimby, okay. Who on there got game swag, bro?
Ant-Man.
Not like LaMelo.
Ant-Man different, come on now.
Man, Ant-Man, I love Ant-Man. Ant-Man different. He is different. But I think Ant-Man going in the wrong direction, bro.
I think—
You did.
Explain that.
He's not making Minnesota exciting to watch. He don't drive to the hole enough. We still love him because he's talented.
But you don't think he's taking that next step?
No. I think he's taking steps. Hey, like he improving his game. He ain't took the leap. He don't need to be taking no goddamn steps. He need to go jump out there, do more. I just want him, I just wanna see him do more, right? 'Cause when I go watch Minnesota, it's like, yeah, he balling, right? But you're not the, like you gotta be the reason why you win every game. Yeah. You gotta be the reason why every game is won. It's gotta be fear when Ant-Man walk in the building and it's gotta be a mystique like, oh, he gonna dunk on somebody, we gonna see some shit or we're gonna see this like incredible performance. How old is Ja Morant, by the way?
Ja Morant is now over 25, if I'm not mistaken. Okay.
Ja Morant— Like Ja Morant got that shit.
You feel what I'm saying? This is '25, under '25. So I think Ja could be '25.
But he probably turned his 60s.
But I would've loved to see where they would've put Ja on this list. I would've loved to see that. I think actually, yeah, I think they should've had 25-year-olds still on the list, but I get it.
I just too, I wanna see Ant make that next step. You know who I do like? Franz Wagner.
Draymond Green is a problem.
Hey, dog, he is a problem. I ain't seen nobody be, he's a mismatch problem. He's the ultimate mismatch. Like I was watching him work, boy, that boy works. You know what I mean? He work. He work, he's, and he can score. He's a scorer. He's gonna be one of those dudes who wind up with 15, 12, 15,000 points, 20,000 points. He just know how to find a good bucket. You know what I mean?
Yeah, for sure.
He knows how to find himself a good bucket. Shout out to him. Obviously Jalen Johnson, I like. I know Jalen Williams, but the Cam Thomas stuff, man. I think Cam Thomas should have been on this list.
