Draymond Green on How NBA Contracts Work & Almost Joining Memphis Grizzlies

What's up everybody, welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. On today's show, we're going to answer your questions about the business of basketball and hopefully help you become a more educated fan. So let's get right into it. Julo asks, how much of the contract negotiations does the player partake in and how much does the agent just take over for? Does it vary by player? I think it definitely varies by player. Um, Some people are a little more involved in their situation. And then it also— the agent matters, right? Like, different agents go about their business a different way. I can tell you my contract negotiation when I was with BJ Armstrong. When I was with BJ, we kind of had a meeting. He'd lay everything out and, you know, we worked from there. With Rich, same thing, lays everything out. And here's the difference. My contract negotiations with Rich has been different in every one, right? So I think the, you know, when you talk about having a great agent, you know, there was a point where when I was in the contract negotiation with the Warriors, with Rich as my agent, and he was like, all right, we're not talking to them. Like, you can't talk to them because they may use your relationship. with them, and they're going to say stuff to you, and then they'll come back and use it against us. So you can't talk to any of them right now, right? We had that. We had another contract negotiation where he's like, yo, you call Joe, you call Mike. Y'all need to be communicating because this is important. I know you want to be there. They want you there. The numbers aren't really matching up. I want you to talk to them so they know how important it is to you. You know how important it is to them, so we can all come to a middle ground. And so I think ultimately, it definitely— the player definitely matters. I think there are some players that don't have a clue, and then the agents just bring them a deal and that's that. Other players, it's a little different. And then, like I said, the circumstances changes the negotiation as well. And that's kind of 2 different ways that you've seen me negotiate a contract with Rich as my agent. Where one, he's like, yo, don't talk to them at all. Like, you just can't right now. Not that it's nasty you're not talking to them, but— You're in an active negotiation right now. And the other one where he's connecting us and like, y'all talking, do this. And then we talking and he's like, yo. And so I think the circumstance of the negotiation matters. And then obviously also the agent, skill level of the agent matters as well. Foley asks, you've talked in the past about almost signing with the Grizzlies and then instead re-signing with the Warriors. How does that go down? Did you verbally commit to the Grizzlies and then have a change of heart, or was it a ploy to get the Warriors to up their number? So I think in negotiations, you all, you like, you wanna have another team. You have to sometimes make it real to the team that, hey, you got something else. In that case where I was gonna sign with the Grizzlies, the Warriors didn't really have the money that I wanted or that, you know, and the Grizzlies ended up offering me $10 million more per year of ultimately where we ended up at. But I wanted to be with the Warriors, and they got the number to a respectable place where I could respect it. And I'm like, all right, cool, we can move forward. However, I do think it was important that we had the Grizzlies and we had that deal on the table to make the Warriors do all that they can to come up, you know, in the negotiation to raise their number to, you know, to ultimately get to me closer to the number that I wanted to be at, that I felt. comfortable signing at and taking a discount. And so it wasn't a ploy. You have to have other options. And, you know, that was a great option for us. I had not verbally, you know, I had told, it wasn't that I verbally committed. It was that I called the Warriors and said, yo, I'm gonna go to the Grizzlies. Can y'all do all y'all can to work that sign and trade and make it work for me? And, you know, to the Warriors' credit, They then went into negotiations with the Grizzlies. And I will say they moved the goalposts on the Grizzlies a bit. But once they moved the goalposts on the Grizzlies too, it also was clear to me, like, they really want me here. You know? And at that rate, then it's like, let's go. Like, let's get this done. And we got it done. But it wasn't a ploy or a change of heart. I was gonna go. But then once I was gonna go, they ultimately got to a better place for me and I was done. But You know, I didn't, I wasn't necessarily, we weren't bluffing. It was a real thing. Just so you all know, I took a break while doing this and watched Big Foe finish it off. So, you know, you can kind of see it on TV there. But anyway, shout out to Big Foe, man. That was an incredible, incredible game. People talk a lot about young players needing PR training when they show too much personality or reveal too much. Is that an actual thing or does it just vary depending on the situation? We get PR training. I think every team gets PR training. That's just kind of a, you know, it's a requirement. You know, and so whether it's, you know, your PR team or they bring someone in, but we all get PR training. I don't think it's necessarily when someone shows too much personality. There is such a thing as saying the wrong thing. Yeah. I don't think it's a personality thing. I've always had a big personality and the only PR training I've ever gotten is the standard PR training that the team will give us. They never pulled me to the side and be like, oh man, your personality's too big. Let's PR train you. You know, I think everyone thinks like, yo, they tell you what you can and cannot say. And that's just not true. There are rules, you know, and there's— Just like any business, you kind of know what you should and shouldn't say. But Adam Silver or Joe Lacob isn't calling me like, you should say this or you shouldn't say that. That's not how this works. We're human beings. We're grown-ass men. And so I don't think it's necessarily too much personality or you reveal too much. There is such a thing as saying the wrong thing, you know, because saying the wrong thing could cost you money. But more importantly, it can cost you relationships. And if saying the wrong thing is costing you relationships on your team, that is of detriment to that young guy. That's also of detriment to that team because they probably expended draft picks on a young guy, or, you know, they expended resources to get the young guy. And so I don't think it's a matter of revealing too much or personalities too big. But I do think if you are saying things that ultimately puts you in a bad spot, if you got a great PR team, they are gonna get you some training or they're gonna train you and help you out because you don't want that kid to put himself in a bad spot. But it's not kind of what people think is like, oh, you got this muzzle or Adam Silver's telling you, hey, it's your turn now to say this. Or like, you know, it ain't, it's not that. You know, the NBA, the NBA encouraged big personalities. The NBA isn't afraid of big personalities at all. And so it's definitely not a matter of too much personality, but ultimately a matter of how can we help this kid? Because if you see someone about to get themselves in trouble, you know, Matt, to your delight, it may be entertaining, but for the team or player or anyone, everyone else involved, Yeah. That's not the entertainment they're trying to provide for you. The entertainment they're trying to provide for you is a great product on the court. And if this gets in the way of that, then yeah, I think it's beneficial for whoever to get some training. Starting a new business can feel daunting. If you've been sitting on an amazing concept, what you really need is a launchpad that handles the heavy lifting so you can focus on your vision. That is exactly why millions of entrepreneurs worldwide trust Shopify. Shopify provides every tool you could possibly need to run a successful business right from day one, conveniently packed into a single user-friendly dashboard. 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Do you believe that your off-court ventures like TV and podcasting helped you be content with taking those pay cuts? No. You know, and me doing TV or podcasting, the money doesn't come close to the pay cuts that I took. But I took pay cuts based on trying to put myself and our team in the best possible situation we can be in. I like to win. And I'm at my best when we're winning. Yeah. And so in anything, there's an opportunity cost. In anything that you're doing, there's an opportunity cost. And for me, that was the opportunity cost. Now, you know, in doing these things, obviously you ultimately hope to build a career, you know, and make a career out of it. And so, but I didn't take those pay cuts saying, oh man, I'm gonna make the money back over here. One thing you should understand about the NBA, once you take a cut, you don't make that money back anywhere. There's this common misconception of like, oh, well, like, for instance, we'll use LeBron James as an example. LeBron took a $4 million deal. He can go make the $40 somewhere else. No, the fuck he can't. He can go make $40 somewhere else, but it ain't that same $40 that he just gave up. Like, so, so say next year, all right, that $40 takes him in total for a year, $60 million make on a year. Well, the other $40 would've taken him to $100. Like, you don't just, you don't just go make that money up somewhere else. Like, so if I'm gonna, you know, if I'm doing these things and they're making me money, which by the way, all the things that I do, it's not even about making money. It's about practice. It's about exposure. It's about, you know, setting yourself up. And then most importantly, learning the business. So it's not always about the money. But Like I said, there's always this common misconception of like, yo, this guy took less, but he can go make that money up somewhere else. No, you never make that money up. You may make that amount of money, but that's not making up that money. That's a fake thing. That's not real. Like, you don't make the money up. You move on, you do other things. Yeah, you can go make other money somewhere else, but you didn't make up the money you left on the table. You never make that money up. However much, I never will make that up. But ultimately you do things to put yourself in position other places to make money, but it's not making it up. That's just not a real thing. John asks, how does the pay work? Do you get paid like the average American every 2 weeks or is it just lump sums and you can choose what the structure is? So a part of your negotiation is, The structure of your pay structure is a part of negotiation. Most people are paid every 1st and the 15th all year. There are ways that you can get chunks of money depending on how you negotiate your contract. You could get 25% of your salary on October 1st or August 1st, whatever dates it is that y'all work out. Then you like, so— That's crazy. It's a— That's all a part of negotiation. You think about it, for the team, if you're the team, it's best for you that you pay everybody on a 1st and the 15th basis all year. That way, that money that you're paying out, you're collecting on that money until you pay it, as opposed to if you just give the lump sum in the beginning. And so the teams ultimately want to pay you on a 2-week structure, which is the 1st and the 15th. So I'll give you an example. As a rookie, you come into the NBA. An NBA rookie, unless they— their agent negotiates it, which I've never heard of any rookie getting paid before. An NBA rookie, they can take an advance up to 15% of their salary. after they're drafted, their contract is signed, and it's been approved by the NBA, then you can take out a 15% advance on your first year salary. Because especially for us, when we were coming into the league, we didn't have no money. So you needed that advance. I did for sure. However, with that, what you should understand about rookies is the rookies don't get their first paycheck till November 15th. So they'll be a month and a half into the season before they actually get their first paycheck. Now that never happens. Now that's the start of the league pay, league year. The last week of your pay is November 1st if you just go with the status quo, 1st and the 15th. So that's how we're paid. Now, like I said, you can negotiate things. Some guys get 50% of their salary by October 1st. And then they divvy up the rest. And then those, for the guys who get that, I think your last paycheck is in April. So you're not paid from April to November from an NBA salary because you got your money front loaded and then you got the rest of your pay up through that pay period. So that's kind of the structure of how we paid. It can vary for different guys depending on negotiation, but that is a negotiation point for great agents. Bad agents don't negotiate that. Baseball has crazy contract structures that include deferred payments and other random things such as a suite for the players' families. Have you heard of any crazy random contract inclusions in NBA contracts, or is that nixed by the CBA? So we're not allowed to get suites. We're not allowed to get stuff for family. We are simply allowed to negotiate the amount of money that we're gonna make, the payment terms, all those. But we're not allowed to get suites in our negotiation or private jet hours or any— baseball can get a lot of crazy stuff because they're not governed by a salary cap. There's no salary cap in baseball. So for instance, there's a dollar amount on a suite. Well, baseball don't have to take that into account towards the salary because there's no salary cap. Or there's a dollar amount on flight hours. Well, they don't have to take that into account because there's no salary cap. NBA, you have to take all those things into account. Now, I do think the NFL can give players suites. I don't know if it counts towards their salary cap or not, but I do know they are allowed to get— players are allowed to get suites. I don't know if it's still the case, but I know they were once upon a time. They may have to pay for them now, but once upon a time they were able to get suites. We have to pay for everything. You're able to get what's in that contract as far as the dollar amount, insurance, all those, but that's it. You're not allowed to add all these extra bonus things into your contract or they would count against the cap. So it's not even something that's really added into NBA contracts. Yanni asks, we know how much you hate the second apron, but when the NBPA negotiated the new CBA, what were the players' initial reactions to the apron system and has it become more hated over time? I'll be honest with you, I don't think most players understood what it meant. I think what most players understood was that, hey man, we're gonna get back to work. You know, we're gonna get a deal done and we can work. So I don't think most players really understood what the second apron meant. Now, in saying that, so the initial reactions, they weren't much from most players because again, they just didn't understand what it meant. I think if, Players understood now, I think you get more reaction out of it. That's why you start to hear more and more about it. But initially, initially they didn't, most players didn't know what it was. And now, you know, it's costing everybody. But I hated it from the gate. Like if you could read, in layman's terms, it's right in front of you. Hey, here's a hard cap. Yeah. And hey, People, these teams are going to stop paying at a certain number because they cannot do that. They're not gonna go into that second apron. It was obvious if you understand the business. I think most players don't understand the business of basketball, so they definitely didn't understand the second apron. Dante asks, you've talked so much about how the second apron cap creates a slot system for roster construction. Can you explain the different slots on an average NBA roster? So you have your max slots. Which now the way the cap works, you can get 3 max slots, but it's gonna put you in a tough spot and you'll eventually be faced with the second apron and have to start plucking pieces away, kind of similar to OKC. So you usually have about 2, 3 max slots, give or take. You could squeeze 3. So we'll go 3. Now, if you're not a team that's in a luxury tax, which means that if you have 3 max slots, you're gonna be a team that's in a luxury tax. However, if you're not a team that's in a luxury tax, you have a mid-level exception. And the full mid-level exception right now is about $15 to $16 million. If you're a team that's in a tax, you get a taxpayer mid-level exception. Taxpayer mid-level exception is about $6.5 million per year. So you look at Jonathan Kuminga's deal, that's a taxpayer mid-level. You also have a biannual exception, which is like a 2-year deal, probably at about $8 million a year. Those are the exceptions. Then you got your rookie salaries, you got your minimum contracts. Some people pull a little money away from the mid-level. So say if the full mid-level is $15 million, they'll pull $3 million from that. And so when they give out their mid-level, it'll be a 3 for $36 as opposed to a 3 for $45. And you may have a guy making $6 million a year because they pulled a little bit of money from the mid-level exception to give to that guy. But now they don't have their full mid-level to give to someone. And so those are kind of structures. And you know, you have minimums and you have your roster slotted guys and different things like that. But in general, that's pretty much the structure of it. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. 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Anyone in the house can run it, and they will love it. To get your Matic, go to maticrobots.com/draymond. A year of Helper Bags free with your purchase. $96 on them. That's maticrobots.com/draymond. STC asks, do you think winning a championship boosts a player's value on the trade market, or in free agency, even if they had a minimal role on the team? It doesn't necessarily boost their value from a dollar standpoint, but if you're coming off a championship team and you had a minimal role, usually what I say is, if you're coming off a championship team, that essentially guarantees you at least one more year in the NBA. Because if you just won a championship, there's some NBA team that's gonna say, well, we'll at least bring that guy in. He got championship experience. You know, he gonna be a good guy in the locker room. Even if that's on a minimum deal. Now, if you're a really good player on a championship team, it definitely adds to your value on the market. Not specifically the trade market. The trade market isn't necessarily valued by that. It could, but more so in free agency. You're a key player on a championship team, it's raising your value. But as far as having a minimal role, it essentially guarantees you another year in the league. Adam asks, as the NBA eyes league expansion, what are the hidden business pros and cons for current players regarding talent dilution, versus expanding the overall revenue pool? Well, I don't think talent dilution is necessarily a worry of the players. I think talent dilution is a worry of the league and ownership, front offices. It's not a worry of the players. Hell, I don't care how talented the next guy is on the next team. I don't give a damn. But from an ownership standpoint, that definitely always has to be a worry. I mean, look, We had 13 teams tanking last year. There were 13 teams able to tank, right? So when you look at the talent pool, yeah, the talent pool is great, it's good. But like, is it substantial to add 2 more teams? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I think there's a lot of guys not in the NBA that think they should be in the NBA. I don't know. But That is definitely always a give or take. And when you're talking expansion, you're plucking from teams, you're lessening the talent on said rosters. But ultimately, money talks, bullshit walks, and everyone is in favor of increasing the revenue pool. I think there are markets out there that are starving for teams. You look at the valuations of these teams, who don't want 2 more of them? Right? So ultimately, if it's talent dilution, I think that's gonna be less value than the revenue pool. Just my opinion. Just my opinion. What does travel look like on a road trip and what tends to be the most annoying flight? I'd say the most annoying flight. Oh man. The most annoying flight I would say is like a Memphis. And reason I say like a Memphis, I'm in San Francisco, right? We could fly all the way to Memphis for one game and back. That's like flying all the way to an East Coast team or Minnesota. Say you got a road trip, Minnesota, Memphis. That's like flying all the way to the East Coast on a back-to-back and you're back, right? Like you don't get those days to adjust to the time or anything. So I would say that's one of the most annoying couple just because of their placement and yet how the game could be scheduled for us, be that they are Western Conference teams. Travel on the road, if I'm honest with you, is great. You fly private. You know, you don't go through airports unless you're in Toronto, which I think they just changed that last year for the first time. But you don't go through airports. You don't see your bag. Like, say for instance, we see our bag. You pull up to the airport, you see the— you don't see your bag again till the next room. Like, till you get to your hotel room. Then you see your bag. You know, You know, you're leaving the hotel, they come pick up your bag, you don't see your bag till you go to the next city in the next hotel room. You know, so like they make travel great for us. They make travel very easy for us. Now it's never easy because of the amount of travel we doing. It's still tough, but you know, there's food, different things for different things. I play for the best organization in the league. So for instance, when we travel, when we go through the— we have practice, say for instance, There's breakfast at— our team then goes to the airport and sets up a line of tables with like stoves, you know, the little stovetop countertop things and full gourmet meals right before we walk on the plane. Then you get on the plane and there's food on the plane, right? So I'll tell you, when you see people that works in the NBA or players gaining weight, there's food everywhere. Then there's snacks on the plane. Then you land and there's a team dinner, right? Like The travel is incredible. Now I'm telling you, Golden State Warriors, what I will tell you is there's not another team that does all of that. Joe Lacob, Peter Guber, Golden State, they fucking crush it. Like there's not another team that does all of that. So travel for us is great. And then you stay in great hotels, incredible hotels to say the least. But they make it as easy as possible given the rigors of the travel. But sometimes you're getting in at 3 o'clock in the morning. You know, we may play in Boston. That game goes into double overtime. You think back to the record-breaking year, we played a game in Boston. That game went into either double or triple overtime. We had a back-to-back in Milwaukee. We didn't get to our hotel in Milwaukee, and it was a late start in Boston. We didn't get to our hotel in Milwaukee till like 4 o'clock in the morning, you know? And so you do face some things like that. And that game was at 6 PM or 7 PM, right? So every now and then you get screwed and you do face things like that. Back-to-backs are tough. But, you know, now when you go on the road to some of these different arenas, that's where things can change up because that ain't, you don't control that. You know, for instance, I was talking about last year about Memphis not having a hot tub, a sauna, or anything of that nature, right? You don't control that. But travel on the road is pretty nice. You think of the movie Like Mike. Travel on the road is nice. Sam asks, how much do NBA players make from their jersey sales? So we all get a licensing check. LeBron James, Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Nikola Jokic, they all get the same jersey sales as the rookie. Excuse me, as a rookie, you don't get a license check because the license check is from the year before. But say a second-year guy who didn't play much on a team, And the license check was $500 grand. That's jersey sales. That's all of the licensing things, right? That same $500 grand that that second-year guy gets, Steph Curry gets. It's divvied up. It's even split. And so you could make $300,000. You could make $500,000. But every player makes the same amount. Vince asks, how has AI been incorporated into the game so far? Is there a push from the analytical staff to use it? I mean, we're not using it per se, like players. How, what's your, what's your, how much we're using AI? But the analytical teams, they're using all that stuff. And I'm sure we'll start to see it creep into the game more and more as it comes down from the front office more into the teams. But right now for us players, it's not used as much on our, at all on our day-to-day for us per se. SJ asks, why is it so hard to break into the NBA in the strength and conditioning side of things? Because I think ultimately you're learning a completely different way of lifting. We don't lift like college players lift. It's different. You may lift more, you may be in the weight room more, but it's not the same Olympic clings. We don't do all of that stuff, especially not during the season. And then the conditioning, you gotta do a lot on your own because a lot of the NBA season is management. You know, like so many games, what's the rest, what's the recovery? And so a lot of the conditioning, you have to take it upon yourself to make sure that you're in the best condition, you're in the best shape. In all organizations, there's not someone pressing you, making you do the lift, making you do the conditioning. You have to be a true pro about it. When I first came into the organization, into the NBA, my first 5, 6 years, I hardly lift. At all. I was already strong. And then, you know, I got, we brought in a strength conditioning coach that really hammered it home to me. And I'm like, all right, cool. I started lifting more. Then Rick Celebrini and his team come in and I started lifting more. But initially I'm like, man, I don't need to lift. I'm strong already. And I will tell you the recipe to longevity in NBA is lifting weights. You must lift and stay strong throughout a grueling season 'cause you're breaking your body down constantly. Last but not least, Ryan asks, if you ran an organization, what would be your criteria for building someone a statue? Oh, I think, I don't know that there's a single criteria, but when you know, you know. You know, you're talking champ, people come in and have a lot of championship success within a group. A lot of All-Star appearances, but I don't think it's just All-Star appearances. Like, they gotta be meaningful to the organization. Like, what have you done for that organization? Or did you just put up a bunch of meaningful numbers and make All-Star Games, right? So I think, number one, I don't know that it has to be, you have to win a championship, but if you didn't win a championship, then you need some really high-level awards. MVP. You know, we go back to that debate, right? Championship, MVP, which one is more important? You better have at least a ring if you're gonna get a statue. I think that would be my criteria. I wanna thank y'all again for tuning into the Draymond Green Show. Till next time, deuces. If you're rocking with the Draymond Green Show, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. And while you're there, go ahead and drop a 5-star rating and leave a review. I wanna hear what you think. And it would also mean a ton to me if you share it with a friend that you think would enjoy it. Let's keep this thing growing. The Draymond Green Show is presented by Audacy and executive produced in conjunction with The New Media. Our executive producers are Leah Reese Dennis, Danny Friesinger, and Greg Holtzman. Video production and creative design by Kirk Courtney, Tim Meechel, Lauren Vieira and Evan O'Brien. Special thanks to the team at The New Media and the team at Audacy. 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