Draymond Green on Thunder-Pacers NBA Finals, Knicks future, top 5 defenders, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

Man, yeah, making it to the finals is great, but if you don't win it, it's almost worse. Like you might as well have lost in the first round. [MUSIC] What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis. BD will unfortunately not be here today. He's out sick. So I decided to hop on, still need to get our fans content. We need to give you some opinions. So instead of doing like a preview, uh, because BD can't be here, I'm just going to hop on, uh, answer some fan questions, uh, and then BD and I will go live after game 1 of the NBA Finals, uh, also creating a fresh episode breaking down the finals matchup, but also everything else going around. Yeah. Going on around the NBA. So make sure y'all lock in for that. But I'll get right into these questions. Number 1 comes from Zen Lollipop L. He said, I think last year when you were talking to a Knicks fan podcast host, you argued that the Knicks more or less overachieved in going to the second round. Later, you maintained that the Mikael Bridges trade would not get them to the finals. Presumably, you saw them eventually falling to the Celtics, but they've actually ended up eliminating the Celtics and falling to the Pacers again. Given how everything ended up shaking out, do you still feel vindicated in your initial prediction? And with the extra information from this season's stats and results, where do you project the Knicks going forward? Well, number one, I don't feel vindicated about a prediction because it's just a prediction. It's just an opinion. So no, I don't. My basketball knowledge, I know a lot of people out there talk about the game these days and they do it in quite a way that's not, indicative of true knowledge of the game, or they say hot things or bold takes because they need like people to look because what they're saying isn't like, doesn't have much fabric to it. To its core, just not much fabric to some of these basketball predictions and analysis. So I said all of that to say, I think, people like live and die on like, oh man, like my prediction. It's a prediction for a reason. But then you actually have to go play the game. So those things actually don't really matter. In saying that, I think for myself and just looking at, I said that that move doesn't get you to the NBA Finals. And it didn't. Even in beating the Boston Celtics, who everyone thought would be the team that's coming out of the East, you still didn't get to the NBA Finals. So, but there's reasons for that, right? Like you trade for Mikal Bridges, you give up a lot, then you don't quite have the depth. Now there are some that say Tibbs may not use the depth, But whether you use it or not, they didn't quite have the depth that you need to compete at that level, get to the NBA Finals, win an NBA championship. I think one of the things that ultimately hurt them when you look at the series that they did lose against the Pacers, one of the things that ultimately hurt them was that they didn't have the depth when, when KAT would get in foul trouble or Jalen Brunson would get in foul trouble. They went on runs at some of those points for sure. But ultimately you do need your best players on the floor. If your best players aren't best on the floor together, then that's an issue and it's gonna be hard to get to the NBA Finals anyway. So, didn't quite happen with them falling to the Celtics for multiple reasons. Not gonna even get into those multiple reasons.

Yeah.

But nonetheless, no, they did not make it to the NBA Finals. And I'm, if quite, if you want me to be quite honest with you, I personally think making it to the NBA Finals is one of the worst seasons you can have. And the reason being, because if you don't win the NBA Finals, you're kind of like, going to the NBA Finals and winning an NBA championship, Those two things are so far apart. Like, you can get to the NBA Finals and not be close to winning an NBA championship. And I know that may sound hard for people to believe, but those that have won championships would definitely understand what I'm saying. And those that have been there and didn't quite win would definitely understand what I'm saying.

Yeah.

It's the, those two things are so drastically far apart. Like making it to a conference finals, like you're so far away from winning a championship and it's, it looks like it's close because you're one series away. The NBA Finals look like you're close because you lost in the actual NBA Finals. But the difference in between winning and losing, and losing the NBA Finals, for a lot of teams. Every now and then you have that 2016 Warriors versus Cavs, Game 7, down to the wire. It takes Kyrie Irving to hit a crazy shot. Take Bron to get a crazy block. Every now and then you have that and like you're right there. But like sometimes you see teams like losing an NBA Finals 4 to 2, like they— They fucked up. The record itself doesn't tell the answer, but they could have won 2 games in the NBA Finals and really not been close to winning an NBA championship. That's how hard it is to win 4 games in an NBA champion, in an NBA Finals. Even if the Knicks made it through the NBA Finals and didn't win it, that's not some accomplishment to me. Like you get nothing for making the NBA Finals except a couple $10,000 more dollars than the conference final loser, than what you would've got for making the conference finals. And you get another 3 weeks shorter summer of the conference final loser. And if you're of, And if you're not, if you, you know, compare it to a team that played in or didn't make the playoffs, you're an entire 9 weeks off your summer. And for a team that made the second round or, you know, made it to the first round, you're probably 7 weeks. The numbers are what they are. They're not exact. Point being, you walk with nothing. Like the team go on and celebrate and have this incredible summer. And like, you're kind of left stuck there trying to figure out like, were we really close? Do we need to run it back with this team? What's the tweak we need to make? Because we were right there. Or we weren't really right there. Only some GMs are smart enough to figure out like, yeah, we were there, but we really weren't there. Like the close, but you're kind of left in this position of like, ah, maybe we're one tweak away. But what you should understand about this thing is one tweak could actually like, it's like Jenga sometimes. Like one tweak of a roster could make the whole thing fall. So it's not just always like, it's not like a simple fix, but you may think it is. And while you think it is and you were made it to the NBA Finals and lost, there are other teams that like, felt like they needed to make a big change or 2 or 3 and like are coming for you. And you're kind of left in the same spot thinking you close and you may not be that close. Or that one tweet could like really put you far further away than you were. So it's not like, oh, you just do it again. Or you had some like huge level of success. Like, yeah, making it to the finals is great. But if you don't win it, it's almost worse. Like you might as well have lost in the first round. So that's kind of how I feel about that. And as far as the Knicks going forward, yeah, I think going forward, in order to win, it ain't there yet. Yeah. I just don't foresee it. I think in order to win, the Knicks need to bring in a great player. I can't talk specific names because I'm not going to give my money away for that, but if the Knicks want, if, if the Knicks want to win and compete for a championship, I think they need a great player. And I'll just leave it at that. So what does that look like going forward? You decide. But if you're talking about championships, I'm just gonna tell you as a champion, and I know exactly what it looked like, they need a great player to come on that roster. They need to add a great player to that roster. How do you do that? That ain't for me to get into, but they need to add a great player if you think they're gonna compete. Yeah. For an actual NBA championship.

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John emailed the question in, uh, who has the best defense in the finals and why? Uh, I think that's an easy answer. The best defense in the finals I think is the, um, No question, Oklahoma City Thunder. I think, A, they have multiple incredible individual defenders. They're very well coached, which makes the team defense great, but they have multiple incredible individual defenders. Like when you think about Tyrese Halliburton, he could face Lou Dort, he could face Alex Caruso, he could face Kayson Wallace. He could face J-Dub, who's an all-defensive team member. That's a lot of guys to be able to throw at one guy. They have that. And like I said, they're well coached and they load up boxers and elbows. They swarm to the ball.

I think—

So that goes without saying. I think where Indiana could cause them trouble is if the offense isn't clicking, because I don't think OKC run like a super complicated offense. So if the offense isn't clicking and Indiana's getting off to the races, I don't know that OKC's transition offense is that good. Defense, transition defense is that great. And that's where Indiana could cause them some issues. If the transition defense isn't, I don't think their transition defense isn't that great. Great. But who has the best defense? They have the best defense by a long shot in, in, in this NBA Finals. In the NBA, they have the best defense. @baller2223, you talked about OKC's seriousness earlier in the season. Now that they're in the Finals, when did you notice they flipped the switch? I think as the season went on, you saw the interviews change. Like the messaging in the interviews changed. But in saying that, I do think they still go about their business the same way. Like it's not like, oh man, they made some huge change. Like they go about their business how they go about their business. What works for you works for you. I personally still think it'd be incredible to see Shay in interviews by himself. I think it'll still do more for Shay's brand to see Shay in interviews by himself. But what works for you, the demeanor of your team works for you. When we were winning championships, if you came into one of our practices, the beginning of practice was like a circus. You got Steph throwing full court shots from one end, Another guy throwing football passes to the complete opposite kitty corner. Oh, across two courts to the opposite end of the floor. Guys kicking balls from half court, kicking the ball, trying to make it into the rim. If you came into those practices, like you looking, you'd be like, there's no chance that's a championship team. Look how they look. Once we get our business going, we locked in. But then you might like, we used to have this little bench.— or not bench, it was kind of a table, like a training table on the side of the court. We'd go sit over there on the training table during practice. If you went on the court, they moved the training table one day. Like one year or one day we came into practice and the training table was gone. You would've thought like whatever the wildest thing you can think of happened, you would've thought that happened. Everybody in there going crazy like, yo, where the table at? The next day the table was back. Like it almost come off as a joke. Like I said, when we're about our business, we're about our business and we're locked in and we dialed in, we getting our work done. But anything outside of music blast, like it's joke. And so I said all that to say what works for you works for you. There are some things that they do that I don't like that as the leader of a team at this point in my career, I don't think I'd want our team doing that. But I also don't know the culture of that locker room. You know, I also don't know their culture. And so what works for you works for you and you gotta go with that. I do think they have a great young leader in Shay who has built a culture. Like Shay has taken part in building that culture back there. Obviously Sam Presti, they got a great culture, but Shay has built that culture there from the beginning, him and Ludorp. They built that culture. And so as the guys who's, who built that culture, you know how to lead it. And I respect Shea especially as a leader. Lou Dort, how he go about his business. But Shea is the clear-cut leader and I respect him as a leader. He's doing a great job. And so there are still some things that I see that I'm like, ah, but what works for you works for you. And nobody can argue what works for them is working for them.

Yeah.

Moving on to the next question. Number 4, @UnbiasedDubsfan. In your personal opinion, who are the top 5 defenders of all time in order and where are you on that list? What you should understand about me is I think I'm number 1 on that list. However, I think top 5 to go in order, I'm really not a fan of those. But who I would regard as my top 5 defenders of all time, I definitely put myself in that list. Ben Wallace is on that list. In my opinion, Tony Allen's on that list. Tim Duncan is on that list. And the last one on that list, also understand like I'm not including Will, I'm not including Bill Russell. I didn't see them play. The utmost respect for those guys, the pioneers, the utmost respect. But I'd be lying to you if I'm like, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, like I'm just going off stats and I don't love when people do that. 'Cause there's an eye test and I haven't seen enough of their games to say that. So understand I'm not excluding them. I was born in 1990 and that's my only reason for not including them. But I'm not excluding them or, you know, saying they're not it. They very much so could be. That's a little before my time. I, you know, I've seen some of their games and watched stuff here and there, but to say top 5, like of all time, like you have to see more games than I've seen of theirs. And so I'm not gonna be a hypocrite and be like, oh, those guys, like, that would be fake of me. So understand that. And saying all of that, and my fifth would go to, well, I actually did have the opportunity to see very young in my life, but more film around him, Hakeem Olajuwon. That would be my top five. So my top five in no particular order, myself, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Hakeem and Tony Allen. Number 5, @Asiansensation3286, how do you manage to defend players who are either more athletic or have a height advantage over you? It's amazing at your height that you can defend all positions effectively. I think more athletic, guys who are more athletic than me, like you can have athleticism, but the game is all about angles. And so, Where you can beat me in athleticism, I can, I understand angles and I can make up in angles and physicality. Athleticism can only be used and taken advantage of with space. If you close distance, close space, it's harder for that athleticism to be used to their advantage. You know, so those are a couple of the things that I try to do. As far as people with height, my grandma used to have a saying, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Now it's not necessarily that, but when I see a guy that's, you know, has me in height, there's also a disadvantage to having height. Most bigger guys can't get low. And there's this old saying, low man wins. When I played football growing up, Yeah, well, I always say low man wins. And so for me, I'm always looking to get lower than the guys who taller than me because now I have leverage, which can then persuade you to get into your spot. And if you can stop somebody by even an inch from getting to the spot that they want to, that changes the shot. And ultimately, if I can be lower than you, I can stop you from getting to the exact spot you want to get to, to take the shot that you want to take. That possession goes in my favor. Whether you make or miss the shot, you can still make or miss the shot, but I'm gonna make the bet that over the course of time, over the course of a 48-minute game per se, if I make you take the shot that I want more often than you get the opportunity to take the shot that you want to take, I'mma win. Yeah. Over the course of 48. You take 20 shots and I can make you take 13 of 'em. You didn't really wanna take those as opposed to you being 7 for 13. Maybe you're 4 for 13. Advantage me, you know? And so that's kind of how I like to approach it. I always think low guy, low man wins. And I try to make sure I'm lower than those guys and then use my angles. Question 6, @QWill5. If you could add or change a rule in the NBA, what would it be and why? I don't know that it's necessarily a rule that I care most about. I would shorten the season. I just think it's too many games. And at the speed that the game is played at today, I know people always talk about, oh man, guys always did that. Them guys, like no disrespect to the guys that came before me, but they used to walk the ball up the court. The speed that the game is played at today, the amount of ground that's being covered today as opposed to before in the NBA, it's drastic. And so I think, I just think the season is a little long and you don't always end up seeing the best of the best from the best. So I don't know if that's necessarily a rule, But I do think it's a problem. Well, I know Bron talked about a month, there being a month off before the playoffs. I don't know that that's possible. A, you kind of get a, you know, guys could get a bit out of shape and it could have adverse, an adverse effect. You know, guys getting back in, all of a sudden you pull something 'cause it's been a month. So I don't know if it's necessary, if a month is the right answer. But 2 weeks ain't no basketball, ain't no NBA player getting outta shape in 2 weeks. But you do, you can get a lot healthier in 2 weeks. You know, you look at Steph Curry pulling a hamstring and to your point, Aaron Gordon saying 2 days in between games. I agree. You look at, because here's the thing, if you end up with a series like Houston, and it's a day in between game. That's a 4-hour flight, 4.5-hour flight from San Francisco to Houston in between, on a day in between the game. That's your rest day. So by the time you land in Houston, it's 8 o'clock at night. If you just try to get the guys a little sleep and not leave at 10 and leave at 12, all of a sudden you getting in Houston, by the time you make it to the hotel, it's dark. Yeah. 8 o'clock at night, you're trying to get dinner and everything is quick. Like you getting ready for bed. So the recovery process ain't great. Is it about bunching in games or is it about the best man winning, the best team winning, putting your best product out there on the floor for the fans? And I think that's where you run into the issue. And so I—

I agree.

I agree with AG. Like there's two games. We played Boston in the NBA Finals. Robert Williams was dealing with a knee injury. When he was out on the court, they were really good. When we had a day in between games, brother, man could not move that second game. When there was 2 days in between games, oh man, that game he played after them 2 days was stellar. That could possibly change the outcome of the series. I still think we beat them, but that could change something. Well, does 1 day, does it help?

Absolutely.

So, as I said, not quite a rule change, maybe a concept change, or, but if you want the best, I think that needs to change. Another rule that I would talk about that also is not really a rule and fans wouldn't understand is a couple things. There should be a standard when you go to these arenas in these visiting locker rooms. When you're accustomed to a certain level of things, a certain thing for recovery, cold tub, hot tub, sauna, when you have a routine that you do for recovery and then you go on the road for 2 weeks and you can't hit that because of the 7 games that you play, one team you had access to a cold tub, one team you had access to a sauna.

Yeah.

It doesn't allow the product to be as great as it can possibly be. So in turn, it affects the fans, right? It's something that fans don't see, but I'm telling you, it's something that affect fans because you're not getting the best product. Another standard that should be, that ultimately help players, which helps fans, You go to some of these arenas, some of the chairs are low as hell. You sit, your like hips are, the chairs on a bench amongst, across the NBA should be standard. Should have to be a certain height. Hip position, it makes all the difference from hip. But guess what else that affects? It affects backs, which ultimately can affect calves, which ultimately can affect hamstrings, can affect Achilles. It can affect knees. Right? Like all this stuff is a trickle-down effect. There should be a certain standard for stuff like that. Because again, those things allow for the product to stay in the best possible shape as it can stay for the fan that paid their hard-earned money. There's no standard. So from arena to arena, locker room shit, benches low as hell, trash. I think those things need to be changed. It's 2025. You mean to tell me there's not a standard? Hey, ownership, you've made all this money. There's a certain standard that your visiting locker room should be. It should have these things. It don't have to be the most expensive whirlpool, hot tub, cold tub. Ryan Smith, Utah, added a cold tub, hot tub. It don't look like it's something that crazy, is crazy expensive. But it makes a difference. Golden State Warriors, I think they got a very expensive one, whole situation going over there in the visitors' locker room. But it don't have to be expensive. It's just the access, which ultimately gives the players better recovery, which allows the players to be out there on the floor more, which is the big gripe around the NBA, huh? So how about you start correcting these things that can help correct the issue. Because guess what? I don't think the amount of games is changing. So what can you change? You can change those things. Those are the rule changes, if you might ask, that I think need to happen because it affects the overall product. Hey, so we all make mistakes, but owning up is the right thing to do. You know Degree Cool Rush deodorant? Well, last year they changed the formula and it did not go well with their fans.

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Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG Degree Cool Rush for yourself. @lovethegame20, who are the top 5 players in the NBA without a ring? You gotta go talk to somebody else without, ring I don't have without ring talks. I'll take that a step further. There are some guys that have rings because you need luck. Like, and they just didn't catch the break. You need luck on your side to win rings. Health, right? Like, it ain't always apples to apples. And just because you don't have a ring doesn't necessarily make you not a winner. You know, 'cause I see people throw that type of salt all the time. Like Chris Paul not a winner. Chris Paul's a winner. Hasn't had the luxury of winning the ring, but dude, a winner, no question, is a winner. It's been proven, you know. So I don't, I don't get off into all of that. Um, it's very hard to do, uh, don't get me wrong, like there's a certain respect that comes with doing it, as it should, but I'm not, I'm not the one to talk. That ain't me. I don't really like that. Moving on, @mathbellk5. Can you talk more about players/teams that actually want to win a championship versus players/teams who are not really in it to win a championship? Absolutely. You figure on a given year, In the NBA, there's maybe, if you're lucky, 4 to 5 teams really trying to win a championship, like doing all that they can. The only thing matters the most, the first, second, and third most important things is winning a championship. You got really 3 to 5 teams a year that that's really the case. Everybody say they trying to win a championship. All the players gonna be like, oh yeah, you know, we fighting start to see, well, we just wanna, you know, prepare to try to win a championship. No, you not. Because winning a championship don't happen on your terms. So you see these teams and these players like, oh. Winning a championship don't happen on your terms. Winning a championship happens on the terms that need to be met to win a championship. And everybody ain't willing to sacrifice for that. Not organizationally, not from a player perspective. They want it to look a certain way. I wanna win a championship, but that don't work. But don't work. That little but will kill your chances. And that's most people. That's most organizations. So anytime you hear people saying, we wanna win a championship, but—

Axe it.

Axe it. That's it. They don't really wanna win. And there's a lot of that around the NBA. There's far more of that than people who actually wanna win a championship. So yeah, no, they're all in your face every day, all day. @DeanChambers8613, how do you work on mental toughness as a young team and keep up the hunger to win as an older team? I think keeping up the hunger to win as an older team, like you, you've experienced success and you want that. You know, like if you were a winner, you just don't, you just don't stop and be like, all right, that gene is gone now. Like I don't care to win anymore. No, you always wanna win. That's the type of person, that's, that's how you keep that up. It's the type of people you have. As far as a younger team, mental toughness, you gotta go through it and you gotta be willing to go through it and you gotta be willing to go through it with the people you going through it.. And it's a certain way to go through it. When you lose, you lose a certain way. You go back to what I was saying about the Houston Rockets the last, uh, month ago or whatnot, when they lost. You lose a certain way. You run off the court, you duck your head, you ain't ready to win because you ain't know how to lose. You ain't ready to win if you don't know how to lose. Does not mean you have to lose in order to win, but if you don't know how to lose, you ain't ready to win. And so for a young team, you gotta be willing to go through that. And when you take them lumps, you gotta take them lumps. You don't start pointing a finger. Only way the finger should be pointed is here. How can I help better this so that we can do this? That's how you build mental toughness as a young team. You gotta go through it and you gotta stand 10 toes. And when you go through it, you look, you stand as men. Or women, depending on the young team we're talking about. Obviously we're talking NBA. You stand, you take your lumps, you take it on the chin, you go back to the drawing board, you work a little harder to try to do it again. You know what that's, you know what that looked like, you know what that felt like. You hold on to that experience. Channel that experience, remember that experience and learn from it. That's how you move forward.

Draymond Green.

That's how a young team gains mental toughness. You go through it, stay 10 toes, don't start pointing a finger. Ah, your homeboy is going on one. Ah man, it's they. No, it ain't. It was us. It was me. I did this. Because that attitude carries into everything that you do. And then you can win. And that's how you build that mental toughness as a young team. @theajmedia, what lessons have you learned from setbacks or injuries? What is your philosophy on building team chemistry and camaraderie? My lessons from injuries that I've learned, I've been fortunate enough to not have a ton of bad injuries. I think my worst one I've had was my back injury. And the lessons I've learned is just how, lift weights. Be strong, lift weights. Have a strong core. Lift weights. They tell you it's gonna mess up your jump shot. Go lift some more weights. Lift weights. Lift properly, but lift weights. That would be what I learned from setbacks and injuries. Team chemistry and camaraderie, gotta start at the top. In order to build that, it must start at the top. If it don't start at the top, it can't start in the middle. That never works. Can't be a couple here, a couple there. It must start at the top and then trickle down to everyone. If you can't start there, that's the beginning of the end. If you cannot build team chemistry and camaraderie starting at the top, that is the beginning of the end. And last but not least, @heni_. What is your favorite moment that you can remember in your career in the NBA and college? NBA winning championship, no question. College, I would say I have two. Playing in the Final Four in Detroit, just the whole lead up to that game, the pep rally, like it was incredible playing in the Final Four in Detroit. We lost in the national championship game, but that experience was one of my favorites in college my freshman year. And then also my senior year, playing on an aircraft carrier in San Diego on the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier with President Obama in attendance was like a dream come true. Like, and it wasn't a dream that I had because I didn't even know it was possible. We had the best athletic director ever in Mark Hollis who just created this thing outta thin air. And it was one of the most incredible events. It wasn't one of the best games to play in. The wind was a factor. The court get a little slippery. You had those decals slippery. But forget the game, we still had a great year and that was one of the most incredible experiences. So I would say that one. Those would be my couple from college. 1A, 1B. I love those. So yeah, appreciate y'all tuning in. Like I said before, sorry BD couldn't be here. Hope my dog feel better. BD, you hear this, you feel better, my dog. Yeah. Thank you all. Remember, BD and I will be back after game 1 of the NBA Finals with a new episode breaking down the finals and everything else going on around the league. Check that out. Look forward to that. Until next time, that's a wrap. Peace.