Draymond Green Versus Skip Bayless LIVE

I wanna welcome y'all to the show. First off, I wanna thank Odyssey. I am in my first year of the partnership with Odyssey and it's been incredible. Greg over here, a producer of the show.

Hey, Greg!

It's been an amazing run. I also wanna thank you all for coming out. I've gotten into this podcast thing about the last 4 years now. I got crushed for doing the podcast. They told me I suck at basketball because I was doing the podcast. We went on to win a championship, so.

Yeah!

That had to stop. It's always fun silencing everybody. And now everybody has a podcast. My agent has a podcast, funny enough. [LAUGHTER] You know, so I feel like I opened a few doors. So we keep this rolling. All-Star Weekend. My first All-Star— this is like a full circle thing for me. I always connect, like to connect things. And my first All-Star Weekend was 2016, which was 10 years ago. It was Kobe's last All-Star Game.

Wow.

And it was in Toronto. It was freezing cold, like 35 below. We had a great time. And here we are in LA 10 years later, and I'm not an All-Star, but here we are at All-Star Weekend. And it's been an honor to branch off into a different field, to get uncomfortable. I was just telling them back there, like, I'm nervous as hell coming out here. And they're like, why are you nervous? Like, I don't know, I just wanna do well. You know, so, so excuse me, I am a bit nervous, but I am excited about having this next guest. We'll talk about All-Star. He is as polarizing as anyone on television.

All right.

I know you all are gonna be trippin' that we're in the same room after he's crushed me for all these years. Also one of the guys crushin' me about havin' a podcast. He is as loud as, he probably pisses players off more than anyone in the game. But what he's done in television, he created a lane. Created a wave. And, you know, as mad as we get as players when someone's loud talking to us, especially when they didn't play the game. Like, you get to talking and you didn't play the game, first thing we wanna do is like, "You didn't even play. How you gonna say something?" You know, and— but I think— and I think I can speak for a lot of players. The respect that we all have for him is why you get upset. When he says something. It's because you know the reaction he's gonna get. He throws it in everyone's face. Like, does not matter what level it's at, he throws it in everyone's face. And I have the utmost respect for him. I'm looking forward to having him on the stage. Looking forward to introducing him to y'all. None other than the one and only Skip Bayless.

[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Thank you. Thank you.

Really appreciate it.

Yes, sir.

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Good evening, good evening, good evening. Here we are. Yeah, now we got it.

Welcome.

Hey.

I appreciate you coming on.

Hey, it's great to be here. You and I have traded a couple shots over the years here and there. And I just appreciate the opportunity to be face to face.

Absolutely. Well, you know, when we were talking about the list of guests, Greg threw out some names and your name was on there. I said, there's no fucking chance Skip's gonna do this. For you, anything. And he came back, he said, he said yes really fast. I said, that's my type of guy right there. Like, doesn't hide from anything, says what he feels.

In a way, we are cut from the same cloth.

1000%.

Yeah.

Just don't give a fuck. Right?

Yeah. Within— Within reason.

Reason.

Absolutely. Yeah. Just don't kick me or don't, right?

That's why they gave us this much space. I can't reach. Before we get into this, I have to ask.

Yeah.

How is your shoe game so crazy? Like, it's unbelievable to me. Like, what you be putting? You come with some heat today. That's why I went in some regular shoes.

Yeah.

'Cause I wanted you to know I wasn't competing.

Nobody on this planet loves Michael Jordan more than this guy sitting in this chair at this moment. And I am addicted to buying his because he is he, he is it, he is him. And I— my wife is sitting in the front row and she's like constantly saying, "Another? Another pair? Where are we going to put them? They're multiplying," right? They're like overnight we have 4 here and then there are 8 there. Oh, okay. So they're mating actually in my closet.

So is it the love for Michael Jordan or is it the love for just sneakers itself?

It's—

Or is it—

Seriously, it's Jordan.

Okay.

Because I had the privilege and the honor of being there in Chicago on that Last Dance season, 1998. And he weirdly, if I may say so, He liked me, and he didn't really care for the rest of the Chicago media, that was the vibe I got, but he'd return my calls, he'd take me aside. He's cut from, you know, he's the fiercest, craziest, most psycho competitor in the history of basketball. Do you know him some or well, or?

I've met him a few times. I've talked to him on the phone a few times.

Okay, good, all right. So, I just, I've never been in a force field like that force field, and I feel like if I have these on, I have a little piece of him to empower me tonight. So I can stand up to you, right?

Well, what you'll see, Skip, is I am a lot different than I am on a basketball court in real life.

You are.

You know, and I take pride in that.

You know what, if I may say so, Okay, so you've done some crazy things on the basketball court, right?

A few.

Okay. And yet your high IQ defensively, the job you did, I just told Draymond this just before the show started, but the job you did on Victor Wembanyama the other night was extraordinary because I give you 6'6", right? 6'6"ish? On a good day. I know you're little. I'm not interested at 6'7", but he's like— But he's 7'9". I don't know what he is, but he's incredibly tall and long and skilled. And you did a remarkable high-IQ basketball job on him because you have been the Defensive Player of the Year. I think you're 9 times First Team All-Defense. And you're doing it with your brain, your IQ, your savvy, your tenacity. And sometimes on the basketball court, you compete so hard that to gain an edge, you go a little over the edge.

Mm-hmm.

Yet that never sticks with you. You don't have the reputation. Nobody thinks you're a goon because I can see now you're not. You're very likable and charming and charismatic off the basketball court, and it cancels that out in a crazy great way that—

Thank you.

That allows you— you're the best podcaster of all the athletes. You have obviously a second career awaiting you whenever you so desire to pursue it full-time, and it's gonna be a great one because God was good. You know, God gave you this other— your split personality.

Mm-hmm.

But on the basketball court, I consider you the ultimate overachiever, where you weren't given the most explosive athletic ability, but you're still really gifted, obviously, in many, many ways. And you weren't the greatest shooter or this or that, But can you— well, Steve Kerr always says, "I don't have 4 rings without him." Well, he doesn't. And neither does Steph and neither does anybody else on that team. So the beauty of it is that you can leave that behind and step off the floor and be incredibly charming. And I've never— I've been doing this a long time and I've never encountered— Yeah. That kind of a shocking dichotomy of human being where, wait, that guy did that? I can go on YouTube and see this compilation of cheap shot sort of clips, you know? But it's how you compete. And that team is a finesse basketball team, and it was from the start.

Yeah.

And it needed a little edge. It needed somebody to enforce. And I don't consider you like the classic, you know, Maurice Lucas, Oakley, sort of.

Charles Oakley.

Yeah, like, like, not that kind. It's not like you're a two-fisted enforcer, but, but somebody has to provide a little physicality.

Absolutely.

And somebody has to say, we won't back down. And somebody has to say, I'm going to set a tone tonight that says we are coming for you and we're not going to give you anything easy. And you don't give anybody anything easy. And if it gets push comes to shove, maybe you'll push it a little bit over the edge. And it works. And the beauty— the reason I jumped at the opportunity is because I appreciate basketball at the highest level, at its essence. And you are the essence of how to play basketball the right way and then some wrong way, but the right way. But that's— Thank you. That is the God's truth about you. You have such redeeming value because you stayed all 4 years in college. That's usually a sign, well, you're not like the next superstar, right? And then you were an early second-round pick, but you were a second-round pick.

Yes, sir.

And look at you now. You are— okay, so this is the crazy thing about this man. He's averaged for his career, I think it's 9, 7, and 6. 9 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists. And he is a first ballot Hall of Famer under— okay, so think about that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, but has that ever— I'm not blowing smoke at you. I'm just telling you the God's truth. It— that's never happened before. Nobody with those numbers would ever even sniff the Basketball Hall of Fame. And your first ballot because there's so much more you do beyond that. And, you know, I think about— I still haven't recovered from the Game 7 in 2016 at your place because you had your best year that year by far. I think you were 14-10.

Yes, sir.

And shot 39% from 3, which is not always your way. And then—

and then—

In Game 7, again, I was rooting against LeBron and company to come back. Obviously, we can talk about that. But, but you go crazy. You have the game of your life. You go 32-15-9, right?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

And, and made 6 out of 8 threes. You made 6 out of 8. I think you 11 of 15 from the floor. Correct?

That's elite, Skip. That's elite knowledge right there. I like that.

Okay, so think about this. You are, you're at home, Game 7 of the NBA Finals, and you have a first-ballot Hall of Famer kind of performance and output. And unfortunately, your star, Steph, Draymond Green had a bad fourth quarter. He goes 1 of 6 from the floor and 1 of 5 from 3. Not Steph Curry-like numbers. And it just wasn't good enough. And he had a bad turnover that he just threw it in the third row and it, it wasn't quite enough and it still goes down to the wire. And, and Kyrie finally said, okay, that's— yeah, that's enough of that.

I got this. Tough shot.

Okay. And he made a shot. But, but what got lost in translation was that you— I always think about this. You had the game of— wouldn't you say? Is that not Game of Life?

No, for sure. I think on that stage as well, right?

Yeah. Game 7. Yeah.

The NBA Finals for all the marbles. Also what transpired leading up to it, right? Like, I think in going into that, like, that's just my way of making it right, you know, like, I got to go out here.

Well, you did because you obviously got suspended for game Game 4.

Game 5.

Game 5, yeah.

You know, and I'm like, this is like, this is my chance to make it right. You know, like I don't wanna lose this series. Let them come back 3-1, all the things, game 5. So how do I make this right? And I knew I needed to play well. Now, can I foresee going out there and going 6 for 8 from 3? No, you know, not like, not really. Or finishing with 32 points. I can see the 15 boards, 9 assists, no problem.

Absolutely.

But 32 points, you know, that's— that hasn't been my role on this team. No, like, I don't have a play. There's not a single play in our playbook for me to score. You know, I understand.

You know, I got it.

I got it. I can't foresee going for the 32 points.

But I remember one Saturday night, real quick digression. This is going back a ways. You were at Oklahoma City against Durant and company, and you just lost it at halftime in the locker room. Like, would you guys even want me out there or not? Do I have a place or do I not have a place on this team? Absolutely right.

—and I was like, I took 2 shots in the first half. I had 9 rebounds, 8 assists at halftime, 0 for 2 from the field, 1 point. I was 1 for 2 from the free throw line. And he showed both of the shots on film. It was like, Draymond, why? Dude, I took 2 shots. You gonna show them both? And so, you know, for me—

Wow, interesting. I didn't know that.

Yeah, so that's when I lost it. I'm like, I took 2 shots. You're gonna tell me they were both— bad shots, I'm wide open at the top of the key, you know, and I lost it, you know, I was pissed. But that goes to show, right? Like, there's no place for me to score in our offense. So then when I scored that game like that, but like I said, I knew in that moment, I gotta do whatever I have to do for us to win.

Yeah.

If that's score, I'm gonna go score. If it's rebound, whatever it is, I have to do all that I can to win.

Yeah.

Because if we lose, it's still all gonna be my fault.

It would be, yeah.

You know? And so how do I fix the problem?

Yeah.

It's come out and play great. Unfortunately, it's one of probably the better Game 7s, especially in the NBA Finals that we've ever seen, that no one remembers.

That no one remembers, I agree.

How I look at it though, Skip, Well deserved and rightfully so. You know, you don't just get to fix it.

Okay.

You know, you don't—

You think the basketball gods had something to do with that?

1000%. You don't get to just go out and say, "Oh, now I'm gonna play a great game and make this right." Like, that's not life. It doesn't go that way.

Okay.

Right, when I look at my journey through basketball, what an NBA Finals MVP would have done for me, and my career and my resume and like what, just what it would've done for the rest of my life. It would've been life-changing.

You would've had it, right? You're one shot away from MVP.

But guess what? Was that the change that I really needed in my life? You know, and so when I take a step back and I look at it, as frustrating as it is, as big of a what if as it is, I live so comfortably with it because I just, I know it wasn't the thing for me.

Okay.

What happens to us if I win Finals MVP? What happens in 2017? What happens in 2018? Am I still on that team in 2026? You know, like it changes—

It would.

The landscape of everything. It changes how much money I'm gonna command. It changes all of these things, right? And so you, it's very easy to sit there and say, man, I should have this Finals MVP and what it would've done for me and my career. But we very rarely as human beings do we look at the other side and say, well, what was the impact? On all the good that's happened to me in my life since that moment.

Right. Well said.

If I didn't go through that at that time.

Okay.

And so I accepted, as frustrating as it is, as much as I would want that on my resume as my belt, as validating of a stamp as that would be, it didn't fit the journey that I've been on.

I love you saying that.

It didn't fit it.

And embracing that. That's probably true. And I must say, if you'll allow me to, that When you did lose it for a moment in Game 4 and you did get suspended for Game 5, you became my all-time hero because you got mad at LeBron and you called him a bitch. And, and I said, that's my guy right there. And he can't— he can be occasionally a bitch, but that's just me. Okay.

Well, that's my brother.

I understand. And he is, and I got it.

That's my brother. And it's actually one of the moments I regret.

Okay.

You know, because when I use that word with people, I'll pull it out every now and then on the court. But when I pull that word out, like I'm ready to fight.

I understand.

And so I'm saying this word to you so that you can get ready to fight me.

Well, it's a fightin' word.

Yeah, it is 1,000% a fightin' word.

And you were signaling it's time time to go.

It's time to fight, right? So the last time I was called that, and I'm not proud of what I did after, but it is a fighting word, you know? And so when I look back on that moment, it's one I'm not proud of, especially with where our relationship is today. And it's one that, like I said, when I pull that word out, all respect is out the window, you know? And my respect for Bron is through the roof.

I understand. Well, he got over it, right?

But you know, I think, and him getting over it was also me going to him and acknowledging that. You know what I'm saying? And speaking on that. And you know, like I can apologize. One thing I do not struggle with, if I'm wrong in something, I apologize in a heartbeat. I can completely lose my mind, but if I'm wrong, I come to my senses, I'll apologize. It don't take me long to realize I need to apologize. Right in that moment, I'm like, ah, I fucked that one up. I apologize for that one. You know?

And so I'm convinced— I don't know this for a fact, but Kiki VanDeWey was in one of the upfront rows there, and I think he heard that and he was like, okay, that's enough. I can't let this go any farther.

Yeah. Hey, Kiki, you know what was crazy? I said this to Kiki VanDeWey. He— we were on the phone. They were—

By the way, he's the minister of justice, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

And they were trying to figure out like what the, you know, there was all these talks back and forth on what suspension is gonna be. I mean, it's the suspension changes the course of history, right? And so there's all these conversations and you don't normally get on the phone with like today in Jay, Kiki VanDeWey's job is James Jones.

Yep.

Last year before Joe Dumars took the New Orleans job, it's Joe Dumars. You usually don't get on the phone with them. When they're deciding a suspension, you kinda talk to this robot. It's NBA security, and he's like, Draymond, I'm on the phone with you and I'm recording you. And it's just like a robot. And you say something to him and you get the most robotic answer back, and it's so frustrating, and then you start losing your mind on the call because you're talking to a robot.

Yep.

And because this was so big, I actually talked to Kiki VanDeWaal. And I said, Kiki, I'm gonna come in your place of work tomorrow, I'm gonna fly to New York today, and I want you to get on your knees how I was on my knees, in the position that I was in trying to get up. And I'm gonna come and step my leg over your shoulder. And I wanna see what your reaction is.

Yeah.

Would your arm go up like, get the hell off me?

Mm-hmm.

I said, if that's your reaction, you can suspend me. If it's not your reaction, You could suspend me for the rest of the finals.

Yep.

He didn't let me step over his shoulder and he still suspended me. So it didn't— whatever I said, it didn't quite work out.

And Kiki was a pretty good player, so he wasn't just some guy.

True. That's a fact.

I never thought I would see the day that a key player for an NBA team in the NBA Finals would get suspended for a final— a full Finals game. It never happened. I doubt it'll ever happen again. And it changed the course of history.

Completely changed everything. You know, you talk about the 73-win season, right? Like being able to close— like we were in prime position to close that out and be like, there's no argument that we're the greatest team ever. Like, you can't even make the argument. We closed it out. And now Like, it's hard to make the argument that we are because you didn't close the deal.

Yeah, but you're up 3 games to 1 and everybody conceded you were the superior team. Yeah, we were better. Across the board, better.

We were much better than them.

Yeah.

Yeah. So listen, I have a question for you though.

Yes, sir.

We're here at All-Star Weekend. How do we fix the All-Star Game?

So if I could go literary for you for just a second here, I'm thinking of a Shakespeare line.

Please do.

The first thing let's do, let's kill all the lawyers. That's a Shakespeare line. Or kill all the agents in your case with these— what's happened at the All-Star Game. My point is, I go back far enough to the late '70s when I first started attending and covering NBA All-Star Games, and they were epic events on the basketball court. Every player took it dead seriously. It was Eastern Conference versus Western Conference, and it was for blood. And there were black eyes and bloody noses and elbows and knees, and it was played as intensely as any NBA Finals game. And we lost it along the trail because the agents began to infiltrate the psyches of the players and say— Draymond Green. No, you can't. You can't. You gotta pull back. This has gotta be just for fun. You can't risk. You can't. The last thing you wanna do is get hurt in an All-Star Game. And we just, we lost a competitive edge where if you're on the floor, I just know your game. You can't help yourself. You're going to compete.

Absolutely.

Because you grew up competing and it's just in your blood. It's, you have the competitive, gene in you. You're going to fight and scratch and claw. And it's not going to be, "Ha ha, fun and games out there." You're going to play basketball the way it was meant to be played. And we lost that. And it became an eyesore of a game where people are shooting half-court threes and just throwing it up and playing zero defense, like an embarrassment. And here you are, you hung your hat on defense from day one, and you did incredible. You won the Defensive Player of the Year, and you've been in the running a couple other times where it was real close, real close.

Mm-hmm.

And yet, I can't pour you into today's stars and get that, that kind of intensity and tenacity out of them for a game that doesn't count. It counts to us, it counts to all these people watching the game because it's hard for me to watch. I know we're going to do us against them and all that in the world, but maybe that'll help a little bit, but I still think we're going to see a lot of half-court threes. And I liked what Kevin Durant said, I think it was yesterday. Yes. That, A, he's digging, you know, taking little shots at Luka and Joker. And, you know, they just— they just jack around. And Luka is laughing, but he laughs through real games, you know, like he's always laughing and not seemingly taking it serious when he is taking it very seriously. So I don't— I don't know. We got to get the lawyers/agents out of the way because they have— They have tainted the psyches of all these players to the point that they won't take the game seriously. And so we saw what happened to the Pro Bowl in football. It just went— it became a 7-on-7 flag football game.

It's crazy.

And I just sat there the other night. It was just last week. And I'm just shaking my head saying, this is— because they were the same way. Now, that game can be more dangerous than yours, but only a little more.

Yeah, it's, I would say only a little more. Where I would understand the Pro Bowl is, I don't know when the last time I watched an NFL game and no one got hurt. Like, you know, you watch an NFL game, usually.

Yeah, somebody.

At least 2 to 3 people usually get hurt in an NFL game on a given day.

Fact.

You know, and so, and looking at that, you know, from a Pro Bowl perspective, That's 2 to 3 real guys.

Yeah.

Like possibly top 2 or 3 guys on a roster. And so I could understand it more from the Pro Bowl standpoint.

Yeah.

From a basketball game, yes, you can always get hurt, except as basketball players, we never go out on the court thinking this is the time I get hurt.

Heck no.

You know, like you go out on the court, you participate in the game and status quo, you played the game, you go back to the locker room. You're never going into it thinking, I'm gonna get hurt tonight. And so I think in going in the All-Star Game, you never think that, except where I do put a little on the NBA, and I think they've tried to change it now, although I think they changed it when it was a bit too late. As an All-Star, you get to the end of the weekend, which is the game, and you like, oh, now I get to play a basketball game. You know, I've been at— Yeah. This community thing, I've been at this event, I've been at this sneaker deal thing, I've been at this podcast thing, if it's my case, right? Like, you've been at all these things. I had a brand deal with this group over there, I had to go to that. By the time you get to the game, and then by the way, when I arrive at the arena on game day, we take pictures, we do this, we do another community thing, and then, oh, I get 20 minutes to shoot the basketball. Well, for me on a normal game day, just, it takes me to get up in the morning.

Yep.

At this age for sure, get up in the morning, go downstairs to the gym in my building, do a whole activation routine, a whole bike routine.

Understand.

Then eat, right? Get to the arena early, get in the hot tub, 35 to 40 minutes on the table, another 10 to 15 minutes in the weight room, go shoot, come back, team meeting, get taped, more time in the weight room. Then I finally get out to the court. It's maybe 5 or 6 minutes. I don't even make it out for, for the team warmups, right? It's an entire process. Where I blame the NBA is they've never made the All-Star Game about the game.

Okay.

So it's not an entire game day process. And where it differs from the older guys that came before us and now, we know so much more about the body through the science and all of the things that we have at our disposal, the Miles Rand, like all of the things that we have at our disposal through our teams, they didn't have, right? So you may hop outta bed at that, and I know this because when I first came in the league, it was those guys. And I know the routines that they had aren't like the routine of the older guys now. Like when you, when you got older then, you just got old fast and like there was no stop. You did. You see LeBron, you see Steph, you see KD, you see all of these guys. James Harden, who's Russ, who's still playing at year 23, year 19, year 18. But that's because the routines have changed. And so I think as those routines changed, everybody understood how important the process was of getting your body ready, which, by the way, LeBron had a huge impact on, on just—

He did.

Everything he's figured out about the body and longevity. As people got more into that, I think you started to take the All-Star Game less serious because you can't get in your routine, right? So I'm going to go out here and play hard in this game that I've prepared for for 20 minutes and I didn't take a whole day. And so I think that played a big part.

I've never heard that before, and I love that. That's— that's enlightening for me because you're also mentally drained to the point of being exhausted from all these appearances through the week. Not, not to mention some parties that you have to go through.

Absolutely.

And it's a crazy long weekend that culminates in, oh, I, I got to play. Oh wait, I got to play a basketball game that a lot of people are going to watch. And I get you're not ready for that, but I don't know how you're going to clean that part up.

Yeah. And that's— and so that's where I think like If you're the NBA, one way to clean it up is you can have the All-Stars do a few things, but bring in more NBA players. They don't necessarily have to be All-Stars, right? You can bring in prominent NBA names that's not All-Star. Fill them out through the All-Star Weekend to where they're doing all these things to where the All-Stars can be All-Stars and actually focus on the All-Star Game.

Mm-hmm.

I think that makes a big difference for guys. I think that allows guys to actually focus in on the game because that's when the injuries are gonna happen, right? Like you're not properly prepared. You go out there, you take off sprint, you sit down in defensive stance, try to go, you haven't warmed anything up and you pull a hamstring, you know, you roll an ankle, you do. And so I think that's where you're more susceptible to injuries. And I think that can be a fix, but it's so, it's become so corporate. Like when you look at the game, I remember Kobe getting his nose broken.

He did.

Remember that? And also—

Dwyane Wade.

Right? Like, Draymond Green got his nose broken. Those guys were really truly competing. When you look at it back then though, it wasn't the same as it is. And until we accept that and just stop saying, but look at those guys and what they did.

Yeah.

You know, they play hard. But when you, old saying, you knew better, you do better. So if I know better about my body, then I'mma do better about my body. And so I think until that starts to be prioritized, I don't think you're going to have a good game. I just don't see it. And the gimmicks, by the way, the gimmicks of the All-Star Game, to your point, East-West, Mano a Mano, best in the East, best in the West, it works when the game is good, right? We doing all these different gimmicks. I think that makes it actually more of a joke in trying to do the gimmicks than just saying it's East-West. It does. How do you get these guys to compete East versus West? Until you can do that, I don't think the gimmicks work. It may work for a year. It looks good in a year. And then you're like, I don't want to see that again because it wasn't a real game. It wasn't the games that I grew up watching, that you grew up watching, that you've covered your whole life.

Yeah.

That's not the same. I didn't cover that. So I can't— I can't see this World versus USA and then equate it to when KG was on the East and Shaq's on the West. So like, I can't do that. It doesn't make sense to me. It's not the same thing.

So have you ever thought about being commissioner of this league? Seriously, I'm serious about that because you— okay, you're smart. You get— you're basketball smart for sure. And you understand the landscape of this. And the beauty— like a lot of great players can't coach because it just came too easily and they just get lost. But you had to scratch and claw for everything that you achieved. So you have a command of it that very few do. So you— as a leader of this league, you could be a force. And people would laugh and say, "Oh, but look at—" No. No, look at what he achieved and how he did it and listen to him. Because every time you speak, when you're in your right mind, obviously, right after, you know, after the game is over and you're—

I've calmed down.

You're there.

I'm back to myself.

You're back to yourself. You could really help this league in a leadership position. Seriously.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you. No, I would love to. I always wanna see this league grow. You know, in my time in this league, I've had my fair share of hiccups, but I hope and I think I've done more good than bad. You know, Pete Myers, which I'm sure you know Pete Myers. He was an assistant coach my first 2 years under Mark Jackson. And he used to tell me a couple of things. He would say, hey, Draymond, couple things I want you to always remember in this league. And as long as you're dealing with this league, you owe it to the game to leave it in a better place than it was when you found it. Yep. And he said, and also you get paid in this league for the next young guy to get paid. He said, it's so often—

Beautiful.

So often in this league, you hear guys complaining about, oh man, this young guy is now making this or, You know, so often you hear how an older guy tried to crush a younger guy and it derails a young guy career. And he used to always tell me, you get paid for the next young guy in this league to come along and get paid.

Mm-hmm.

And I said all of that to say, I've always tried to live by that and throughout my career to make sure that no matter what, no matter how people feel, no matter what people say, that when I go to bed at night, I can honestly truly feel like and say, go to bed saying, I've left this game in a better place than it was when I found it.

You have, and you're not done yet, but you are leaving it in a better place.

Thank you. And I appreciate that. And speaking of leaving the game in a better place, I want to transition to your career a bit.

Okay.

You know, I've watched, I've been watching, I would go to sleep watching ESPN. You know, I would like, my teeth, a lot of times people ask me like, yo, you seen this movie? You seen that movie? Like, no. At that point in my life, I didn't really watch movies. I only watched ESPN. So I've watched your career. Cold Pizza.

Thank you.

First Take. And I think the first question would be, how have you gone about it for so long giving zero fucks about what anyone thinks?

I like to argue and I like to win and I just believe in saying what I see. So I'm watching as astutely, I hope, as you're watching other games saying, what's really happening here? And then having, it's not even courage for me, but some people would say having the guts on national TV to just say it and not worry about the fallout, the ramifications. If you believe it, say it. And I've never said anything on live national television that I didn't believe with all my heart and soul, that I hadn't thought through and come to a hard and fast conclusion on. And then, to quote— Draymond Green. What you said, then I don't give a fuck after that. You know, like that, okay, because I'm going to just let it fly because that's what I'm made of. And just a real quick story, not to bore you, but so I'm a sophomore in high school growing up in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma at a public school. It's a good public school called Northwest Classen. But I think I'm going to be an athlete. And I'm pretty good, but I'm starting to know by my sophomore year, I don't know. You know, like everybody else, I grew fast and then they all caught me. And as God would have it or fate would have it, my sophomore year, first day of school, I wind up in an advanced English class taught by the journalism teacher. Oh, wow. Who only taught one class a day outside of journalism to try to find anybody who could write for her school paper. And so the first day of class she said, I want— she called us you people. I want to see if any of you people can write. So I want you to write me a one-page book report. I don't care what book you choose. Just write— I want one page just to see if you can write. So of course I go to the library after school and I'm looking in the sports section and I pick a biography of an old former— NFL quarterback named Y.A. Tittle, way before your time, played for the Giants. And I'm thinking, I've never written a thing in my life. So I read it and I thought it was crap. I read it in one night because it felt like it had been written in one night. And so I just sat down and it just spilled out of me. I just annihilated the book. And I didn't know any better, but that's the real— the real me was starting to come out naively. And I turned in the paper and a couple of weeks passed and it's Friday and the bell rings. And as we get up to leave, her name was Mrs. Burdette and she was scary. She had giant black hair and big red lipstick. Everybody thought— everybody sort of thought she was a witch, but she became my— She was. My guiding light, but she said, "Skip Bayless, I want to see you after class." My friends are looking at me like, "What? What did you do?" So I sort of ease up to her desk and she says, "You are coming into journalism." And I said, "I have no interest in journalism." She said, "You're coming into journalism," like there was going to be no, no for an answer here. And she changed my life because she forced me to write 2 sports columns a week while I'm playing. My best sport was baseball, so I'm playing for baseball teams. And I was pretty good. I made All-Region after my senior year. But I'm writing sports columns. And it's kind of weird. And my friends on the teams are saying, "What are you doing, man?" I don't know what I'm doing. But I'm just writing the truth as I see it. And so it spilled out in that— weird little one-page review.

Wow.

That, that's me. That, that's who I was going to be from that point forward. And I liked it. I, I like the feeling of truth-telling. I'm just going to tell the truth as I see it, and then I'm going to stand behind it. So I was off to the races.

That's incredible. Um, wow, for her to see that and you to become like what you've become. Yeah, it's incredible.

And by the way, the end of the story was, it's been a few years back, my wife and I went back to Oklahoma City and they inducted me into the Oklahoma City Public Schools Hall of Fame, for what that's worth. But it was a big deal there and it was a big deal to me.

Amazing.

And Mrs. Burdette at that point was 90 years of age and she sat next to my mother at the head table and she got to witness that. And I got to share that moment with her. And it was a big deal. And she passed soon after that.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's, that's, wow. That's amazing.

Thank you.

And you look at today's day and age, a lot of people have a voice, you know, particularly through social media. But through that now, I think it's opened the ranks for who reports on basketball.

Yeah.

What do you make, like, you're a journalist first. What do you make about that? Kind of used to be the prerequisite, and it's not anymore. Do you think that's had a disservice on the sports reporting, the sport, you know, the sports media landscape of not having that journalism background in most of it these days?

It's a great question. And I don't want to rip my brethren today. I appreciate everybody in this country having a voice wherever, however they want to have it. But Stephen A. Smith and I came up the hard way, and we learned the hard way from a lot of people that we covered who were way smarter than we were about what was really happening. And we paid our dues. And he is my brother. And we have a foundation in us that— that others don't have because we paid that price. And Stephen A.'s a great showman and he's bombastic, but he's really smart. And he knows what he knows because there are a lot of nights that he was covering those Sixers, Larry Brown Sixers with Allen Iverson on deadline with 32 minutes to write a game story. And you have to reach down and pull it out of you. And it forces you to come to grips with what really just— what you just witnessed on speed and against crushing deadlines. And we both did that for a long, long time. And then thank you, God, for— Thank you, God. Uniting us and then reuniting us again in various ways, shapes, and forms. But you're right, we were just blessed to come up the correct way. We earned it. And like I compare to your career, you, man, you just earned it. You earned it for Coach Izzo at Michigan State. See, you learned from a man who really understands how to win basketball games. Mm-hmm. Maybe not the prettiest way, but the right way, right?

Absolutely.

The right way.

1,000%.

Yeah, and some of those, I went to a lot of Final Fours with Michigan State, and the games were kind of hard to watch occasionally because they were kind of slow and tedious and physical, like extreme physicality, but always correct. Always in the end played the right way, taught the right way, by a man who you guys just— you'd die for him.

Absolutely.

You would die for him, and you'd still die for him, right? Today.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Okay, so that's the equivalent of what Stephen A got at lower levels coming up in both NFL and NBA. For me, I was so blessed to be around great coaches all the way up, and then to get to learn a little bit from Jordan at the end of that run in Chicago and Phil Jackson and Jerry Krause. And I— so I have that reservoir of knowledge that's correct. It's what Coach Izzo taught you on your level. All those coaches taught Stephen A. and I on our journalistic levels. And so when we speak or tweet or whatever we do, podcast or whatever we're going to do, you can trust that we came up hard and correct and that you're getting a level of insight that you might not get. But I can't tell the audience who to choose on— because there are a billion voices out there. Yes, there is. So I can't educate the audience. I just have to hope that the audience knows When you listen to Stephen A, he can be wildly entertaining, but he's smart because he, he earned his pedigree as a journalist.

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Unless you can go LeBron.

I can't, I'm telling you right now, I can't. No chance. As my uncle would say, I'm on the, he said, call me nephew, I'm on the wrong side of my downslide.

I understand.

Call me sometimes, you know? Yeah. That's where I am in my career. In your career, that span now for 40-plus years. You do things and you have these moments and periods in your career, but then new chapters open up, new things, right? Like you had your time at ESPN many years, kind of creating debate television in the sports world.

Mm-hmm.

You then move on. But in moving on, First Take continued to go. Stephen A became the, He did. The face of First Take. You were the face of First Take. To me, in listening to you speak about Stephen A., it feels a lot about— I'd say I probably looked at my career through this lens for the last 4 to 5 years, which is preparing for a younger teammate to take my spot. But the way I look at it, which is how it sounds like you look at it, but I prepped you to take my spot. You know, I didn't, I didn't withhold information from you. I gave you all the knowledge that I could give you. I wanted to train you up in the right way so that when you do take this over, A, you understand that the responsibility is just not to go out there and play on the court. You know, it's so much more responsibility in being one of the faces, one of the premier guys in an NBA organization. Yeah. It's like the easiest part is actually just to go out there and play on the court, but it's working behind the scenes with all the different groups, right? That is true. Like you're working with producers.

Yep.

You're working with all these different people, but I prepped you to take that spot. I didn't gatekeep that spot. And looking at you move on, Stephen A continue to grow the way he's grown with First Take continuing to thrive. How was it? How was the emotion for you leaving that show that you kind of took from being Cold Pizza to First Take?

Yep.

Then moving on and still doing a debate show but moving on to another network. What were those emotions like for you in going through that transition?

Just to background some of those watching. So I first met Stephen A. on Jim Rome's show on what used to be called Fox SportsNet. It was the predecessor to FS1 under the Fox umbrella.

Yes, sir.

This is going all the way back to 2001 or 2002-ish. And one day by happenstance, Jim obviously is the star of the show and the host of the show, but he would always have a couple of wingmen to go back and forth on whatever the hot topic was or the sport of that season. And we were in the middle of basketball, and he happened to have Stephen A. Smith and Skip on at the same time. And I knew in 3 minutes, 2 minutes, whoa, I like this guy. I like his style. I like his energy. And I could tell right away, we barely knew each other, but I knew he liked me. And I knew he got me. And respected me and vice versa. And Rome was just blown away by how the two of us took over his show. And he started to ask us back and back and back some more. And as fate would have it, Jim got in a— had a contract snafu or something. I don't know. They couldn't come to terms and left and left his slot open. And they immediately came to us. Uh-huh. Producer named John Johnston, and he said, I want the two of you to do a show. This is, this is Earl, this is 2002-ish, and I think PTI had just started. It was in its infancy of maybe 2 or 3 months, and John said, I have a pilot I'd like to shoot with you two, and I'm going to call it Sports in Black and White. And we liked it, we liked the title, and it was sort of PTI with a little more edge to it. Mm-hmm. And I love Mike and Tony and what they've done. They're incredible. They're like the LeBrons of our—

They've been at it for a long time.

They're still going and going strong. And so we did this pilot and I just knew 2 minutes into the pilot that this really works. I can't— you can't, as you know, you can't teach chemistry, you can't coach it. You can't sort of massage it. It's either there or it's not. And we just had chemistry. We had connection and we had respect. And we could go hard at each other. And he knew it wasn't personal and I wasn't going to take it home with me and I wasn't going to hold it over until the next day. And the producers came running down out of the control room when we finished the pilot and said, "We could put this on the air tonight." And they ran it up the flagpole. Yeah. And I don't know who it was at the top of the flagpole in those days who said, "Ah, Stephen A., he's just too angry." I said, "No, he's not. It's a showman. You know, he gets riled up, but he's not angry. You know, like, that's the wrong term for it." And we were all crushed. They wouldn't sign off on it. And the rest could have been history— Wow.

—for—

Fox SportsNet and Fox. But instead, we went our separate ways. Then he wound up at ESPN and did a show called Quite Frankly in New York City. And I wound up on Cold Pizza doing a show in New York City down the block from him. And it took a while for us to connect. We started doing a morning— Sunday morning SportsCenter. This is going way back in the day, and it was called Old School, New School. And they would let us be on for like— 10 minutes. 7 or 8 minutes and do— try to do 3 topics. The great Bob Lee was trying to referee. And they always told us that it just spiked in ratings. So we knew there was something there. And finally Steve and I left. And then I rose up into First Take. It's— it was just wild. It was a billion-to-one shot that we got to reunite. And when I finally— You know, They went all debate of it. We were still kind of cold pizza when we moved up to Bristol, Connecticut. And incredibly, a guy named Jamie Horowitz, I think you know Jamie.

Oh, Jamie.

Yeah, took over our show on an interim basis and just said, God, the ratings say we should just, we should go all debate 'cause every time you and your debate partners are on, it just explodes. And we're still doing, pat topics and ballpark food topics and cigar topics and just casual sports topics that nobody— I didn't care about them and I'm a sports nut. And so Jamie blew it up and we went all debate and we did it for a year or so. And then I said, if you can get Stephen A., it would be gold, it'd be ratings gold. And it would, it would simplify my life because we just had a rotation of debaters and every week it was different. I had to recalibrate for everybody.

Yeah.

But in this case, If I got my guy, we can go places. And we went places for 5 years. And then Jamie wound up out here at what was then FS1, kind of struggling at that point, and recreated. And so to your— long-winded answer to give you the background about your question, I did that with Stephen A. And we did it at the highest level. And— It was— I didn't think we could get any greater than we were because of our dynamic. And I didn't want to go watch with him. I wanted one more big challenge to say, well, I did that and I could come out here and put another network on the map.

Right.

And he totally understood that. But we're still very close. And that first year we're out here in LA and he would come visit. Like once a month and come over with my wife Ernestine and I and just sit and talk because we are deeply connected. And I don't rule out that we would do something again before all this is over. So he's— he is the greatest thing that ever happened to me in my career.

That's amazing. Wow. That's incredible.

Thank you.

And to think if it was today, and y'all got that no on the first time y'all did it, you just go create it yourself. No, would we?

Yeah, we didn't have the option. Yeah, you think it's network TV or bust, right? That's it. We would've been out of there and we'd be sitting here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And yet you then go on to what you set out to do. You go create another debate show on a network that no one watched.

No one watched at that point.

At all. And yet you go create the show, you pull people over there. There's this tug of war between the two shows and, and another star comes from it. He did.

Shannon Sharp. He came.

He comes on.

Yep.

Then you two create the same magic, or not the same magic, different magic. But, you know, y'all create gold. What was that like? What were the differences where Shannon is not a journalist? Shannon is an athlete who's worked his butt off in He did. And became great at doing it.

Yeah.

But what was the difference of then going with Shannon as opposed to doing it with Stephen A.?

So if I did teach Stephen A. anything or show him anything, it was that he realized from day one, if you're gonna go at it with me, you're gonna have to prepare because I'm going to come really prepared every single minute of every day. And it just— listen, Stephen A. has the greatest gift of gab in the history of mankind, where he can just— he has verbal gymnastics where I say, how did you— sometimes I would just sit back as we're arguing saying, how did you get there? How did you do that, right? How did you do— that's wizardry, right? Verbal wizardry. And with Draymond Green, With Shannon, I certainly didn't have to show him any way because he is a hardcore worker, preparer, on time, ready to go. As hard as you want to go, he'll go. So that was a different dynamic because he had obviously played and was in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And I wanted Shannon because he pinch-hit for Stephen A. a couple of times when Stephen A. was on vacation on First Take. Yeah. And I knew right away, this will work. It won't be Stephen A., just different, but it'll work. And so I pushed for Jamie Horowitz to hire Shannon to launch us on FS1 on Undisputed, and he did, and it was a home run. Yes, it was. But very, very different. It was more competitive because we're both maybe psycho competitors in our own ways. And I loved it because it was— with Stephen A., Stephen A. never took it that seriously. He'd get flustered and riled up. But this, Shannon took very seriously. And we would push it to the edge on a daily basis where we would argue hard. As people used to laugh at me, you know, they'd always say on— early on First Take, "You love hard." Yeah, I do. I love hard and then I— I don't hate hard, but I love hard, and— but I'll fight hard. And it was great television in a different way than Stephen A., but I was very close with Stephen A., remain that way, and I was never close with Shannon, but we were good together. We liked each other and we— We just didn't have that brother-brother sort of relationship that I had with Stephen A. So it's going to be more contentious, combative. And we had some great moments on TV. We, we rated so— and we set some ratings records on that network that I'm pretty sure will never be broken. So—

1000%.

Thank you.

It was incredible work. I want to try a new segment with you. It's called, uh, I'm calling it Take Two. I'll present some takes that you've had about me.

Okay. Wow.

You can either double down.

Okay.

You can modify it.

Okay.

Give a little more context, or you can apologize because I like to apologize.

I will warn you, I've never apologized.

We're gonna learn a new way today, Skip, 'cause I like apologies and I'll apologize. Alright, Draymond is not angry. Draymond— no, Draymond is not angry, just crazy. And by far the dirtiest player in NBA history. Do you double down, do you modify, or do you apologize? Hmm.

I double down.

Wow! Wow! You know what, Skip?

Okay, so we did talk about this earlier in this session.

Yes, we did.

And the truth is, and I have podcasted about this, I've gone off on this, I've unleashed on this, you have baffled me and astonished me because you have lost it regularly— or not regularly, routinely on the court. And it's because you overachieve. You fought your way up. And it's not that you're a natural-born fighter, because you're not. That's not who you are. But you battle so— Yeah. Tenaciously that you push it right to the edge, and then every once in a while you just go completely over the edge trying to get an edge. Yes, absolutely.

And if you really understand—

I do. I do. And, and, and sometimes if you're going to kick somebody in the nuts or pop them in the nuts or an elbow or a stomp or a flying— the Nurkic thing was pretty crazy. It was pretty good.

I went back and watched the video like, "Whoo, that was bad." Like, Jesus Christ. It was—

it was electrifying to watch because of the creativity of it. Because you executed some sort of flying fight MMA— We're— I thought you were going to kick him, and then, then you, you open hand— you didn't close your fist, but, but you got him with the side of your hand in the face, and you didn't hurt him. You didn't hurt him. Listen, I just— for the record, I was there the night Kermit Washington hit Rudy Tomjanovich, and I know it's way before your time, but do you know of it?

Absolutely.

Okay, because then I was at the LA Times at this point, and I wound up at Centinela Hospital out here in LA on death watch because Kermit Washington just, it was a freakish sort of accident where he'd already been hit once by a guy named Kevin Cooner. But he turned and Rudy was sort of rushing into the action and he turned and just decked him and he caught him flush. Close fist. And Kermit Washington was a bad man. He was put together. 6'8".

Wow.

And he caught him flush and he, He just— it's one of— it's like a car wreck. And he nearly died. But you didn't— you're not that. You're just— it's a cheap shot artistry, you know, where you have— You have a repertoire of little cheap shots that back in the day, back in the '70s and '80s, would have all been considered dirty. Like Bill Lambert came right way before you, but he was the baddest of the bad boys because he was just a cheap shot artist. But, but you've had some of that in you. But, but then I told you this to start this show, and I'm going to double down on this. You don't have that reputation. I, I can just send somebody to YouTube, just go watch the compilation of Draymond cheap shots over the years, and you'll sit back and say My God, what was he thinking? Well, he lost it and he lost it there. But if you know him, there's redeeming value because he's actually high IQ. Your IQ is up there with LeBron's on how to play basketball. It has to be.

Thank you.

Or you wouldn't have done what you— your achievements are— I already said, you're first ballot Hall of Famer at 9.7 rebounds, 6 assists. It's because 9 times first team all-defense, Defensive Player of the Year, led the league in steals. What is it, 4 All-Stars and 4 rings?

Mm-hmm.

Okay? And all you need to know is he's the guts and glue of 4 rings. The guts and glue is sitting right there. All redeeming values that wipe out the dirtiest player because you don't have that reputation. In fact, last night I was just thinking, wonder if Draymond is ranked as a dirty player. But the list, you're not ranked. You know, it's always like Bill Lambert or Bruce Bowen. Did you know Bruce?

Absolutely.

Okay, okay. And that's all, that's all. That's all he ever did was he slid his foot under until they, there's actually now a Bruce Bowen foul that gets called, right? A rule. And yet, because you show yourself so often publicly as you are right now, you're lovable. You're extremely likable to the point of be lovable. And that's the real you. You have true authentic charm and charisma and You have a great smile in the commercials. It's really good. It's very convincing and captivating, and it's true. It's not fake or phony or forced. You just have a natural goodness to you that sort of sugars up the cheap shot artistry. Thank you. To the point that it's forgettable and it's forgivable. That's what happens. It's forgivable. And so when I say you're the dirtiest player ever, well, it's the compilation. No one's ever done that that many times. But, but, but, but again, you— your team required a lot of it. Not, not enough to get you suspended for Game 5. But it required 90% of it because it didn't have it. It had no edge. It had Steph and Klay, and they're finesse players, and they're not particularly tough. You know, Klay could guard. Man, he could really guard.

He's good.

Yeah, but is he a tough guy? No. Does he scare anybody? Does he strike fear? No. You struck fear and still strike fear because you're volatile and unpredictable. Like, oh my God, what might he do now? And nobody can talk better than you can talk shit, you know, like really talk shit. I can do that. Yeah.

I'm a Saganowski.

Okay. And you, your team need, like Steph can't, he's not gonna talk. I don't know, Klay had talked a little bit. Who else? I don't know. It's just you.

No, that was kind of it. Is it? It's you. You know, I've had this conversation with Steve before. To your point, by the way, Skip, I'm gonna let you call me a cheap shot artist. I don't know if I'd really accept that from you, but you've been so nice about it, I kinda am like, a little touched by it, so I can't fight back on it.

Okay. Well, I mean, kicking Steven Adams in the nuts twice, that's pretty cheap, right?

I told you I put it on my kids. I really didn't try to. Would you believe me?

All right, all right.

I really—

Fair enough.

But it happened, and guess what? I am one, I stand on what happened, and I deal with the consequences, and it is what it is. And so I'll deal with those kinds, but I had the conversation with Steve before. Steve Kerr, right. Yes, and I said, "Coach, you know," I said, "You don't understand how hard it is." And when I had this conversation with him, it changed our whole relationship. I said, Coach, you don't know how hard it is for me to be me in this whole ether, ethos. I said, I have to bring the energy every day, the toughness. I said, and honestly, Coach, I have to muster that up. Like, I'm not naturally this high energetic guy. I understand, yeah. I'm not naturally coming like, ah. I said, I have to muster that up every day. I said, and sometimes I just don't have it. I said, but I know I have to. And as a competitor, I'm gonna do everything I can to find it. I said, but in doing that, sometimes it's just gonna go over the edge.

Yep, it is.

Because when you're trying to press something to the point of like, I'm going now. Once you get it going, you don't just stop. It's like, ah, you know, like I'm ramped up now. Like it's, I'm taking this thing to the moon.

I understand.

You know, like I've really, and so to then get it to that point and just be like, all right, I'm there, stop. It's not really a realistic thing. I've gotten better at it over the course of years. You have. But in the same breath, I will tell you, but I also lost some of the fire, you know, and trying to get better at that thing because— it gets to a point of where it's like, but I don't want this to cost me everything I've ever worked my whole life for. Understood. Yeah. And so in turn you lose a little bit of the fire. But I can also say at this point in my career, like you have to though. Like what I had to grow to understand and like, don't get me wrong, I'll still have my moments of things that happen. But what I had to grow to understand is that the same thing that's accepted in year 6 and you're 26, 27, 28 years old, and it's not accepted when you're about to be 36 years old. And you're 14. And so I had to learn that. But just back to the original point, I told Coach Kerr, I was just like, you know, I'm always trying to muster that energy up. And younger in my career, I can pretty much muster it up every day. You know, like as you get older, it's not as easy to get up for the Memphis Grizzlies who's playing no name that you know.

Agreed.

You know, outside of Ty Jerome, right? And it's a little tougher to get up for that. It's a lot easier to get up for Victor Wembenyama and the San Antonio Spurs, who's a good team, right? Like, as a competitor, I gotta show up on that stage, you know? But I'd go over the edge, but it's like I had to push it there.

You did.

And then once I pushed it there, it's hard to just hit the brake and stop and be like, oh, I'm at the edge now, let me not—

Understand.

I'm on this battlefield. Trying to do everything I can to win your brain, to take your heart, to completely dominate you. And once I get you to the point of where I got you about to break—

Yep.

I will step over the line because I'm trying to annihilate you.

You are.

And that's, that's kind of been the— what's wrapped up and become my career, you know, and who I am. But, you know, as I've gotten older, I understand it more, you know. But going through those years, I couldn't— I really couldn't articulate that to you 7 years ago. I just knew I had to do whatever I had to do to win and compete at this level that everybody told me I couldn't compete at. And if that meant stepping over that line, damn it, I was going to step over the line. So you figure it out after the fact.

From the start, you tortured and tormented your head coach.

And from the very beginning.

From the beginning.

Yes.

And he was torn about it, torn about it. No, you can't, Draymond, you can't do that. No, don't, don't. But he knew deep down you were it. You were the reason you were winning championships. And when he says this, he says it with his heart. I wouldn't have 4 rings without Draymond. That's the God's truth. So he knew that it was all correct It just got— once you pushed it so far, then you couldn't control it anymore. But he knew that the beast in you was the beast with four rings, right? You don't have it. There's nobody else on your team like you. If you had been a bad boy Piston back in the day, you would have been just another guy.

Absolutely.

They had lots of your type. Type of psyches, right? And competitors. And they had the young Dennis Rodman. You're different than Dennis Rodman. He was just like an antagonist, just somebody who got under your skin and inside your psyche. But he was doing it— he was playing mental games. You're not playing mental games. You're just competing your ass off. And you're gonna push as far as you can push And you're going to show competitors who might be better than you that you're going to be here all night long and you're going to wear them out with your physicality and your IQ.

Absolutely.

That's what you're going to do. Because Steph wouldn't have been Steph without you because of all the ball screens and all the— you're the point, whatever position— I don't know what your position is, but you're the point. And if you have to defend Wimby, you can defend Wimby.

Absolutely.

That's why you're a first ballot Hall of Famer. So all the dirtiest player, it equals 4 rings, right?

Absolutely. I appreciate it.

There you go.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, that's true. And real quick, if I may go a little quick left turn personal. I grew up with a mom who really struggled with alcohol. And she nearly killed herself in a car wreck, and she finally dragged herself to AA, and she got sober. And for the last— I don't know, she was probably 50-ish at that point. She lasted to 90. So for about the last 40 years, she stayed sober. And she went every Monday night to her meeting.

Wow.

I liked my mom more when she was drunk because she had edge to her. She had flair to her. She had spark to her, and the spark got put out by AA, and it saved her life. But it's what you're telling me, the spark got put out a little bit where, okay, you're pulling back and you're pulling back, and I don't know if you had to go to any counseling when they suspended you for the month or whatever.

Absolutely.

Okay. And they're saying, Draymond, you can't, you can't, you can't. So you finally say, okay, I can't, because you're, you're smart and, and your, your heart is big and good. Okay, I can't, I can't. And, and all of a sudden you're— you, you just said it and you know deep down, wait a minute, I'm not doing it. I'm not— you know, it's dampening a little bit of your energy. Your dynamic is, is a little dampened by the fact that you're You're trying to be a good guy, you know, you're trying to be like all the rest, but you're not like all the rest.

Absolutely.

Okay? So it starts to hurt the basketball team if you can't go in there anymore full speed. And it's not your age, 'cause you— I watched the whole game the other night, and you were— you're really good. You can still play at a very high level.

Thank you.

Very high level. There's nothing— I don't see any age. I know it takes you longer to get ready for the game. I got that. But when the game comes, you're ready.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So the point is, and you're shooting it better, you know, you got the 3-ball going pretty well and you're working hard at it. So, but there's— if your team is going to make any noise at all, there's going to be a moment when you need to go back in there a little bit. And push the envelope right to the edge and maybe slightly over the edge because that's the guy. That's okay.

I appreciate that. Yeah, true. When I go over the edge.

Yeah.

And the whole media crushed me.

Okay, I'll have your back.

I'll be getting destroyed.

Okay. It helps me to hear this from you, from your heart.

Yeah.

What's really happening inside there. 1000%. Yeah.

So you're going to take up for me? Yeah. Perfect. And I know you're a rider, so I'm good. I'm going right back into that bag after this All-Star break. People, watch out.

Good.

Shannon Sharp was better at football than Draymond Green and certainly Richard Jefferson are at basketball.

Okay, that's my take.

That is your take. Are you doubling down on that? You going to modify it or apologize? Okay.

What's the rest? Shannon is better at football.

Shannon is for sure better at football, I agree, certainly. Richard Jefferson is at basketball.

Did I say Richard Jefferson was better at you than basketball?

Yeah.

What was this take from? What's the context?

I'll tell you, Skip, this isn't one of your better ones.

Yeah, I don't really—

RJ is one of my vets, but no way am I giving RJ that.

That he, I'm saying he was better than you?

Yes.

Okay, I apologize to that one.

Thank you, yes! Yes! Yeah. Yes, Skip!

Thank you! Wow! I don't remember that take, but you know, it's funny about Richard Jefferson. When the great late Bill Walton was a buddy of mine and I would run into him, great guy. I don't know if you— did you cross his path?

Yeah, well, he, you know, Luke was our coach.

I forgot about Luke.

So he would come up pretty often.

So Bill told me when Luke was at Arizona, Richard Jefferson was at Arizona, and that Luke considered him like his sophomore year, maybe, maybe even his freshman year, as Jordan-esque in athletic ability.

You know, just— Yeah, he was athletic.

Like in sheer athletic ability, but he had no Jordan intangibles whatsoever. Well, he didn't. There's no killer, there's no—

True.

He's just a nice guy who was pretty, he was very gifted at playing basketball. But he became just a journeyman. You know, he was— he was pretty good, but he wasn't Draymond Green. Well, obviously. Yeah.

Thank you. All right.

We got an apology. Shannon Sharp is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Yes, he is. Really good. And I got destroyed on a Michigan State football field, so I'm going to stay over here. Okay. No problem. I'm pretty sure I'm a better 3-point shooter than you are. Even now. I said that you could shoot better than me.

I do. I double down. I double down. Double down.

All right. Do you gamble, Skip?

My wife is getting on me here. She said no. Okay, wait a second. Okay, Cam Newton challenged me to a 3-point contest, and my wife went with me to the gym, and she videotaped. Okay, you weren't shooting for me. I was—

Did you beat him?

I can shoot it. I can really shoot it. How do you know? Okay. Okay. Draymond Green's a career 32% 3-point shooter, but he's had his— I know he is, but that's, that's not been his forte. And, and he had— there were like 3 years from like 2019 to 2022 where you're under 30% for 4 straight years.

It was a rough, rough go.

It was a rough go.

Rough go, Skip.

I, I, I just— Maybe I'm delusional.

Skip, I was so terrified to shoot that ball at that time.

I understand. Yeah. No.

Where's Steph?

Wow. There he is. No, I get it because they are going to dare you to shoot.

Absolutely.

They're going to dare you. And some nights, well, like Game 7 night, you just murder it. They're just saying, oh, you have that.

There's no better feeling, Skip, than the coach daring me and I hit the 3. Oh, they hear every word in the dictionary.

Every word. No.

In the Urban Dictionary too. When I hit those 3s, They gotta hear it.

Okay, well, we did, you saw I made all those threes, right? I can shoot it. That's one maybe in 10 minutes. Now my wife has turned on me. That's something.

You know what, Skip? We can do a 3-point contest and we'll do it for charity, me and you.

Okay, deal. All right.

We'll do that. This is a good one. By the way, We've been at it for a while. Skip, I'll sit here another 2 hours with you, but I'll get y'all outta here pretty soon.

Okay, sorry.

No, I'm not sorry. This has been incredible, thank you. I would knock Draymond out if he would've had the guts to face me on this podcast or on his, just the two of us, battle royale, new media versus real media.

Double down. Well, I honestly, when you invited me on, I wasn't sure that we were gonna have the studio audience and I thought you might just come right after me and we could really do it up, you know, like we could really get after it. And I've also, you're leaving out a lot of the context of this, but I've said all the things on podcasts and shows that I've said to you face to face.

Absolutely.

About your IQ and your ability and your guts and glue and how you were crucial to 4 championships. So I was excited to do that and I wasn't sure what the vibe would be, but we haven't been in each other's force field. And I must admit, I really like you.

Thank you.

I just do.

Likewise.

I just do.

I appreciate that.

I just really like you.

Well, what I wanted— and coming on this show because I— I thought you would come on and you would probably think that I would just like be, but I wanted you to know coming on this show, most importantly, of how much respect I have for you.

Appreciate that.

And there was never gonna be a situation where you were gonna come on this show and there was gonna be disrespect towards you. One thing I do is I respect greatness. I may not always agree with it. Most people actually don't agree with greatness. Like that's how you actually reach that level because everybody else couldn't actually reach it.

Yeah.

But I, I wanted to be very clear in coming on here that, A, you will receive this respect that's due. I have my moments, like I said, on the basketball court, but my mom raised me right.

She did.

And I respect how you go about your business. I respect how great you've been. I respect the pioneer you've been in the space, what you've created and what is created in the sports media space. I got the utmost respect and I wanted to make sure when you came on here that you felt that. And so for you to say that to me, it means a lot because that was the number one goal for me coming on this show is that you felt the respect that you deserve.

I have felt— thank you, thank you.

I have felt—

I got a couple more.

Oh, go ahead.

I felt nothing but respect and I'm honored you would say that from my heart.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Got a couple more. Okay, now it's about Steph.

Uh-huh.

I'll fight you about Steph before I fight about myself. Yes, you would. Kevin Durant saved Steph's legacy twice.

He did.

Double down.

I double down. I just believe that with just Steph, I don't think you would've gotten past LeBron those two times that you did. And Kevin shocked me, and I didn't have any problem with him joining forces with you guys because he was in his— going into his 10th year. And I'd watched those Oklahoma City teams very closely because I'm from there originally. And I'm not the biggest Russell Westbrook fan. I admire his tenacity and how hard he plays because nobody's ever played harder, longer. It's just like crazy hard.

It's crazy.

But I know for a fact that Kevin finally decided he would never win a championship with Russ as his primary decision maker every time up the floor, because Russ was dribbling it up the floor every time. And it was his choice, me or you. And how many nights did I watch Kevin over there on the wing like, I'm just, just flip it over. And then Russ puts his head down and just drives it blind, you know, just, just goes as hard as he can. And Kevin finally said that he loves his little brother, but he's not going to win a championship with his little brother. And I respected that. And obviously what had just happened in the conference finals, you know. Absolutely.

Okay. 3-1.

Yeah, 3-1. And so he comes with the weight of the basketball world on his slender shoulders out to you guys. And it wasn't the greatest sort of off-court fit because it was a little clashy between him and Steph. And Kevin wanted to be the man, and Steph's the man. And he grew up in front of your fans, and your fans aren't ever gonna get their arms completely around Kevin. Because it's Steph's, it's his world, it's his show. It's his universe. It's him. And you guys grew up together and here came Kevin. And Kevin just blew me away in those finals because he was not afraid. And those two game threes in LeBron's house, I just never seen anything like that. Do you remember the shot that Kevin made right in LeBron's grill?

Left-handed.

Man.

In the left hand.

Yeah, man. And it was just, it was beautiful to watch, but it was shocking for me to watch 'cause I wasn't sure Kevin had that in him. And in back-to-back years, I just don't think you would've gotten past LeBron and Kyrie was there the first time. But I just, I don't think you would have. I don't think, I mean, Steph still, He's still a little guy by basketball terms, and he can only do so much. I mean, he's the greatest shooter— I don't even need to say this, but it's the most obvious statement anybody's ever made— he's the greatest shooter ever. But he can go cold, and he went cold. It's just hard for me to get over the fact he went cold in all 3 of your 4th quarters after you got suspended, in, in 5, 6, and 7. 2 of those in your house and he just went cold. Go look at the numbers of what he shot. He shot 6 for 20 in those 3 fourth quarters and 3 of 12 from 3. And then we talked about the fourth quarter of Game 7. He just wasn't there for you. And I'm not condemning because he's, he's all-time great, obviously. But Kevin Durant is just a freak of nature, man. And if he's right, if he— if he's— if his mind is right, he just took those games over. And, and now you had the nuclear weapon, and LeBron was just overmatched, man. I mean, just— okay, so yeah, he saves because Steph's going to lose. I, I believe you guys are going to lose without him. That's just me.

So then what? So then what does 2022 then do for Steph Legacy?

Well, it put it back on the map. I mean, he's— it was saving grace. And I think we all needed to see that he could do that then. He wasn't great in those fourth quarters, but he was great for the whole series.

Yeah.

And he was the reason— you beat a young and upcoming Boston team with two stud young players, but they were still young and they weren't ready for you. I mean, you personally. Yeah, because you made it hard on both of those kids. And they were kids then. They're starting to become men. Jalen Brown is having a really big—

Yes, he is.

Yes, he is. He's riving.

He grew up after that series.

He grew up, but they weren't grown up yet. That's true. You matured them quickly in that series.

That's what happened. So, and speaking of that, Steph Curry is not a top 20 all-time greatest player.

Now, that was— That was way back after 2016.

Yeah, yeah, your 20 was Jordan, Magic, Shaq, Kareem, Tim, Bill Russell, Kobe, Bird, Bron, Wilt, Hakeem, Oscar, Doc, David Robinson, Mailman, Bill Walton, Dirk, Jerry West, James Harden, Dwyane Wade.

Okay.

Where is Steph in there now?

Top 20. I would give it— the one who has disappointed me the most of those names you read is James Harden, because he's just been a disaster when it was time to be great. And he was again last year for the Clippers in their Game 7 at Denver. He was just a nightmare where he just doesn't show up. So he doesn't belong on that list.

Okay. I mean, he had one problem. He just ran into us and that was— that was—

I'm sorry. Well, remember the game where he had the most turnovers ever in a playoff game?

In closeout game.

Yeah, it was a closeout.

That was his—

Game 5. Yeah, that was fun.

Yeah. I'm happy he had it then.

You probably snaked a couple of those away.

And I dove on the last one on the floor. It was a great one. Yeah. And moving on from that, we'll get outta here. I think a lot of the last 20 years you've had a lot of choice statements about LeBron.

Mm-hmm.

And I wanted to ask you, why do you think LeBron triggers such a strong reaction from you emotionally? Have you ever respected him more than your TV persona would say that you do?

No matter what good I say about LeBron, nobody wants to hear it because I'm the ultimate hater. And I don't hate him because I think he's a really good guy. You know him very well. Sometimes too nice of a guy for his own good. And yet you have to understand my context on LeBron from day one on television. I'm sitting across from people who are trying to tell me that LeBron James is better than Michael Jordan, and it's just wrong. It's the wrongest statement ever stated on national TV. Trust me on this. LeBron, as great as he is in many, many ways, he's not in the same universe with that guy, because that guy is one of one— Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Yeah. Draymond Green. He was the fiercest competitor I've ever been around in any sport— NFL, baseball, you name it. There's never been anyone like that guy. And no matter how much I applaud and laud LeBron, I always call him a generational passer. Like, in his generation, his decade of coming up into the league, there's always one per decade. Like, you're a very good passer, but you're not like once a decade where you're gonna be sensational with your pass. Yours are all textbook passes to me, but you're not gonna knock me out of my chair. I'll just say, "Ooh, that was really good." Yeah. But LeBron, on a nightly basis, as my wife will attest, will knock me out of my chair with a pass where I'll say, "How did he see that coming?" Absolutely. Right? We say, how do you see that before it happened and bounce it through 3 people for a little layup? Oh, you did that? It, it just, it's extraordinary. And I always call him the greatest driver of the basketball ever, period, in the story, because he's— I'm giving him 6'9". Do you give him 6'9"?

Yeah, for sure.

Okay, 6'9". What do we say, 260?

260. 275, 270.

270. And ambidextrous because he's born left-handed, plays right-handed, but can— he's sometimes, I think he's better with his left hand at the rim.

Yes.

Okay, so that's, that's called unstoppable. And as explosive athletically as anybody of that size we have ever seen. But, but not the mental toughness, not the killer instinct that Jordan had at 6'6". And just me, if you could have that all-time one-on-one game with both of them at their prime, Jordan would just terrorize him. He just would. He would talk him to death. He would just talk him into smithereens. You know, he'd just make him blubber with just his talk. And then Jordan would do— Draymond Green. Jordan had some of you in him that— that he— I always called him a supremely talented over— I'm sorry, yeah, a supremely talented overachiever. So he had the whole combination.

Yes.

He had your overachievement, your scratch and claw, but gifted. You want to talk about explosive athletically? Lord have mercy. So it's— it's on another level from LeBron. And yet, I can say all these great things about LeBron, which I just did, which I believe with all my heart and soul, but I always say, LeBron just wasn't born with the clutch gene. That's— and I can show you, we don't have enough show left to do it, but I could walk you back through LeBron's epic fails in big moments, and there are a bunch of them that Jordan never had one of. But it's just one after another after another. I know he's your brother and you love him. And yet there's a nice guy in there that ultimately does LeBron in because he's too nice for his own good. He doesn't have— listen, Michael Jordan would just slit your throat. I know him. I know him. He'd slit my throat. And he liked me, but he'd slit my throat if I got in his way. Not literally, but figuratively.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, okay. So my basketball throat, you know, that's what he was. And there's never been anyone more driven to win a basketball game than Michael Jordan. And LeBron is wildly gifted and obviously all-time great. And if you want to go already on Rushmore, you can have it. But the problem is that all my context is I'm constantly having to deal with, like Shannon Sharp, he just loves LeBron like Scary loves him. You know, like Stalker loves him, right? Right? And it was great for our dynamic, but he's like, he's not on Rushmore, he is Rushmore. Like all 4 faces are LeBron, right?

Yeah.

So for me, I'm always in the context of defending Jordan against LeBron, and, and I feel like ridiculous having to even have the conversation. So I'm like, if you think LeBron is better than Jordan, you're disqualified. I don't know what you think, or I don't know if you— maybe it puts you in a bad place to have an opinion, but I don't know if you know Jordan's game well enough to have an, you know, really steeped, educated opinion on what Jordan was. Mm-hmm. But I know, and I know LeBron's game, and it's, again, the passing, the driving, but then he's the all-time greatest scorer in the history of your league, and LeBron is, by his standards, he's a lousy shooter. And that always just wears me out to think about the points he left on the table. He's a 35% 3-point shooter, and if you look like today, if you just rank that in the league today, that would rank 120th. That's not great. He's a 74% free throw shooter. And by his standards, by greatest player ever standards, it's not great. Jordan was 84% from the free throw line. KD is 89. Larry Bird, Magic were 89 and 88. You know, it's by superstar standards. LeBron's a lousy shooter, both free throws and threes. And everybody says, oh, he's in the lab in the offseason. Well, you should go fix that. You can make that some better to me.

Do you think he—

but he became a lot better shooter over the course of his career. He did get better. Okay. But I'm just doing— well, not this year. He's 30% this year, so he's having a hard time. But okay.

He's 55.

I know he's 55. That's true. You got me. You got me. But listen, the longevity factor, like I always— I just go crazy about LeBron James on his durability. It's an ability, his durability. And he is the greatest. He's Jordanesque. You can have that. The longevity is— it's impossibly great. I'm being totally honest. And he learned— like, I know Mike Macias and all that he's done for LeBron. They're next level. And LeBron is next level on knowing what to put in your mouth. You are what you eat. And he learned that way earlier than— you talked about the old players. They just hit the wall at 34, and they're just done. Yeah. Because they ate all the wrong things, they drank all the wrong things, they didn't do any of the fitness, the offseason fitness, and they just crumbled in their early 30s. And look at what LeBron is doing. I watched him the other night. I know he's hurt right now, but he looks— what is he now, 41? Is he— yeah, 41.

41.

He looks like 28. No, seriously.

He does.

Okay, it's impossible. He's still really good, really good. And, and so I give him all those flowers— the passing, the driving— but, but how could you, how could you not improve your shooting more than you did, especially your free throw shooting? Because you can do that to me. That's just me. But okay, so I just tell the truth about him. But I— people always say, you know, that they love that I hate LeBron. I don't hate him. I'm just telling the truth about what I see.

So not better than Mike. Where do you rank him?

Okay, I still have him 9th. Okay, I, I just do. I mean, seriously. Wait, wait. Okay. You know Kobe's game, and I got Kobe above him. Listen. LeBron's not— he's not better than Larry Bird. He's not better than Larry Bird. Larry Bird was a cold-blooded killer, too. He was. But come on, man.

I'm like, don't get me wrong. I don't want Larry Bird. Larry Legend. Okay. Not taking nothing.

Okay. Would I take Tim Duncan over LeBron James? I would. I saw Tim Duncan should have 6 rings if not for Ray Allen. And LeBron should be 3-7 in the finals if not for Ray Allen making the greatest clutch shot. I ever witnessed.

Yeah.

Okay, big shot. Okay, so Tim Duncan is really good. Bill Russell was really like the ultimate winner. I'd take him over LeBron as a leader and a, a, a driven force of those Celtics. I know it was ancient and they're playing against a lot of white guys. I, I got it, you know, like, well, well, they are, they are, they're playing against way too many white guys, but, but, but he was He was a real winner and he just dumped— Wilt Chamberlain was like 6 inches taller than Bill Russell and Wilt didn't have a prayer against him 'cause he played him with his mind and his will and his guts and his drive. And I'm gonna take him all— for all those intangible reasons, I'll take him over LeBron. And then we keep going up, Kareem and Shaq. They're just forces. They're— they're— Yeah. Taller and bigger and stronger than LeBron, and I'm going to take him. And then Magic was the ultimate winner. And then on Mount Rushmore, all four faces is Michael, Jeffrey, Jordan. Okay, so—

Respect. Only thing is, as Shaq— Shaq's my favorite player of all time. So there we go. Shaq slander. But interesting. I think when you speak force, Bron's not Shaq size, but I would say more forceful than just about anyone. More.

Okay.

Because you can—

Not more than Shaq, but Shaq was 7'1". Yeah, okay.

But you combine the speed with 270, 6'9", it's jumping like that, moving that fast. When you're talking now strength, Shaq moves— when you're talking just pure force, okay, I think the force LeBron generated was different because it's downhill at you, whereas opposed to Shaq, mostly on the block, right?

He's catching.

He got 1 or 2 steps to create the force. LeBron can create the force from here all the way down the floor and build up that forceful power. I think it's a little— but I still think—

The greatest block ever against you guys in Game 7.

Don't remind me.

Little, little, little overrated. Only because if you remember, Iggy is going to dunk it and J.R. Smith undercuts him. And it forces him to hesitate a split second and think, oh, I gotta change my dribble, my rhythm a little bit, and I'm just gonna have to lay this up off the glass. And here comes LeBron, and I give him, you know, effort because he is coming as hard as he can, but it's an ambush block. It's just like, it's a chase-down ambush, blindside, came out of nowhere, and Iggy's like, what just—

Yeah. Happened. Yeah, it was crazy. I stood back there and watched.

Yeah.

Oh, lastly, I want to thank all y'all for listening.

Thank you.

I know this has been a lot longer than expected, but I'm not quite a selfish person, but I've been selfish because I've enjoyed this so much, so I just kept going. So I apologize. Thank you, Skip.

Thank you, sir.

Mrs. Bayless, thank you so much.

Really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah.

And to wrap it up, what do you want your legacy to be in sports media? Like, it's all said and done, you walk away from this. Ultimately in basketball, I've always said I don't care about the shooting. I don't really care about the defense. I wanna be ultimately remembered as a winner. Just that simply is enough for me. What is it that you wanna be remembered as, as you can do this? 'til you're dead, but when, when, when, as all of our time will come one day, what do you want to be remembered as in sports media?

The GOAT sports debater, period, end of story.

And that you are. Skip, I can't thank you enough, man. Thank you, Draymond. This has been incredible. You said at the beginning of the show, we're a lot alike. And just sitting here with you for 2 hours, listening to you speak, I can agree with that. You seem to have, and I can see it by people who are in your presence, how they react to you. You know, like everybody's pissed and mad and we all love Lil Wayne and then we look up and we see Lil Wayne sitting with you over and over again. And it's like, come on, Wayne, don't sit with him. We love you, Wayne. But he does. You know, you look at Stephen A. and I haven't met anyone that has spent time around you. It's a lot like Charles Barkley. You go crazy when you see you guys on TV, and then you get around you and your ethos, and it's like, man, one of the best humans—

I understand.

I've ever been able to spend time with. And I wanna thank you for sharing this stage with me. It's an honor for what you've meant to the league, landscape and what we do, creating other lanes for people to thrive in. You know, it's, it's one thing to come into sports media and be great and status quo, do what someone else did and be good at it. It's a completely different thing to come and create a lane that now so many people are thriving in. You look at Gil— Gil's Arena. Mm-hmm. Those guys are essentially sports debate show, you know, like you've created this lane for people to continue to provide.

By the way, I'm about to be on that show full time.

Really?

Coming up in 2 weeks. Yep.

That's fire.

I'm gonna start in 2 weeks.

That's dope. That's gonna be a hit. And I'll definitely be checking that out.

Thank you.

I can't thank you enough for doing this. Just the guts to come on here. Right? Like most people that have had the standoff that we've had over media wouldn't, or they'll say, and by the way, I would love to come on your show any day if you would have me. But most people would also say, well, I'll only do it if he come on my show. And it wasn't any of that.

No.

It was a simple, yes, I would love to be on. And I can't thank you enough. This has been an honor. Uh, this last 2 hours has been great. I've learned so much. And for what you've done. Congratulations on everything you've done. And, and, and as you close your run out, whenever that is, I wish you the best. And thank you for all you've done for all of us.

Pleasure. Honor.

Give it up for Skip Bayless, everybody.

Thank you all. Appreciate you all. Thank you.

And that is a wrap from this show. I thank you all for being here. Like I said, I really apologize for it being so long, but I absolutely absolutely loved it and I hope you all did too. So until next time, deuces. If you're rocking with the Draymond Green Show, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app. And while you're there, go ahead and drop a 5-star rating and leave a review. I wanna hear what you think and it would also mean a ton to me if you share it with a friend that you think would enjoy it. Let's keep this thing growing. The Draymond Green Show is was presented by Audacy and executive produced in conjunction with The New Media. Our executive producers are Leah Reese Dennis, Danny Friesinger, and Greg Holtzman. Video production and creative design by Curt Courtney, Tim Meekle, Lauren Vieira, and Evan O'Brien. Special thanks to the team at The New Media and the team at Audacy.

Maura Curran. Josephina Francis. Hillary Shuff. Eric Donnelly.

Kate Rose, Collin Gaynor, and Jake Gally.