In this episode of the Draymond Green Show, former Michigan State point guard Mateen Cleaves explains why he chose to attend MSU after the Fab Five era, emphasizing his self‑belief and the authentic recruiting approach of Coach Tom Izzo. He recounts breaking his back just before arriving on campus and how that adversity motivated him to overhaul the team’s mindset by instituting an open‑gym culture that tracked wins and losses, fostering pride and a competitive edge. Cleaves describes the aggressive scheduling philosophy he helped champion—“line ’em up”—to ensure the Spartans faced top opponents and were always prepared. He also reflects on the emergence of the “Flintstone” core—multiple players from Flint, Michigan—including himself, Charlie Bell, and others, and how that hometown bond shaped a unique identity for the program. Throughout, Cleaves stresses a team‑first ethos, insisting that every member, from walk‑ons to managers, contributes to the collective success.
Chapters
What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green.
Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. At the time that you came to Michigan State, Michigan State wasn't the place to be. And we know everybody was going to the other school. What was it that brought you here to say, nah, I'm gonna go do this as opposed to just jumping on board? It's right after the Fab Five. And yet you say, "No, I'm gonna go do this." What was it that brought you here?
First of all, like, and not trying to be arrogant, but I believed in me. You know what I mean? I wasn't a cat to go just jump on somebody else's team or ride somebody else's coattail. I believed in me, first of all. And you know, the way Coach Izzo recruited me, man, he inspired me so much. 'Cause a lot of the other coaches was kind of like used car salesman, man. They was just selling you whatever you wanted to hear. But he was so real. I mean, he was at everything. You know, he was at my football games. Basketball games, workouts, everything. He was there every day and telling me, you know, "We gonna win a national championship." And I believed him, you know? And a lot of people thought I was crazy to come to Michigan State because it was like, honestly, who you gonna pass the ball to? You know, Michigan did have a lot of great players or whatever it was, but I believed in me, man. And I ain't want the easy route. You know, why not go to Michigan State and do something special? You know, you can ride somebody else's coattail or just fit in. Nah, man, I believed in me so much. I say, "Hell, why not go to Michigan State and do something great?" You know what I mean? So I believed in me, I bet on myself.
And coming here, what was that journey like? Because it wasn't all peaches from the beginning.
Nah.
I think people see the end and it's like, "Oh man, them guys were that." You see '99 Final Four, you see 2000 National Championship and you get it twisted. But what was it like in the beginning coming to really light that torch?
It was different, man. And a lot of people don't know too, I broke my back right before I got here. So before I got, when I got to Michigan State, I was never the athlete I was. But when I got on campus, one thing I wanted to change was the mentality. And it was something simple as like an open gym. Like to me, if you taking score, there's a winner and there's a loser. You know what I mean? And that gotta mean something, just the open gym game. And I started saying, well, we gonna keep track. Of wins and losses because everybody, some cats would come in here just to get a sweat, you know, get up and down. I said, "Nah, they taking score. That means somebody gotta lose. All right?" So I don't wanna be on that end. So what we gonna do is start keeping track of the wins and losses. And what that did, start getting pride. That brought pride to winning an open gym game with nobody here, no sports writers, no crowd. We brought pride in just that. I wanted to brag that night that I won more games than you. Okay, so that mentality started to really get the thing going. You know what I mean? So that's what it was. My first job was to change the mentality of people that was okay with losing. I wasn't okay with that. You know, and it was two people that wasn't okay with losing. That was me and Coach Izzo. He was wired the same way. So it was easy. We was like tit for tat. We had each other's back, but we was the only two at that point that was wired that way. But like I said, It was changing the mindset. And then at that point, you know, the open gym and making that important, winning. All right. Then the next thing was scheduling. You know, Coach, line 'em up. Let's go play all them dudes they saying good. All these programs that they saying the top, let's go play 'em. Line 'em up.
So it's your fault we end up with these fucked up ass schedules every year.
I had a little bit of something to do with that. It's your fault. Hey, but Coach, that one thing he, That's my man. Because one thing he did say, he said, "Hey, hey, you better get them." I ain't gonna say the words he said. "You better get them in the gym. Okay, you wanna play these guys? Well, you better get them in the gym so we'll be ready." I said, "Line 'em up. We'll be ready." So that was the mindset. We ain't backing, we ain't ducking from nobody. We want the smoke.
Absolutely.
Yes, sir.
You come here and Mopey was already here. Mopey, so you're older than you, but. No disrespect to Mopete, that's one of my big bros too. But the gravity that you pulled when you decided to come here, then you get Charlie and then it's this whole Flintstone thing. You got Tone Smith here, Roberta in football, then it's this whole Flintstone thing. Was that, is that what you saw this becoming? Like, yo, I wanna make this like a Flint thing. I wanna make this our school because for me, Growing up and watching y'all, Michigan State was just all about the Flintstones. And then Jay Rich came here from Saginaw.
Oh baby.
But Michigan State was, it was almost like it was Flint schools. Was that your vision or did it just kind of roll out that way?
Yeah, it kind of just rolled out that way. And you know, I'm Flintstone to the core. Ain't ducking that. But I was all about the team. You know, people made a big deal, the national, media made a big deal because that is something unique. You got 4 cats from one city, that small city, to come to a major university and make the noise we were making. That was kind of cool. But man, we were all about the team. And I made sure they knew that. I would say it all the time. Hey, we ain't just, this is a team. All right? But I would pull them to the side every now and then and say, "Hey baby, you know everybody from the crib watching these games. So we gotta represent." But I made sure the whole team knew, man, it's a team thing, man. You know what I mean? Like we don't get it done without nobody. Everybody play a role. I'm talking about from the managers to the walk-ons, to whoever, everybody play a piece in this. So that was kind of cool. You know what I mean? Being from one city, you know, and them was my boys. We grew up playing together and stuff. But man, that kind of just, it kind of just happened to be honest, because you know, I'm all about everybody. It was all about the team here at Michigan State. Draymond Green.
