Jalen Brunson or Carmelo as Knicks GOAT, Thunder-Mavericks reaction, Jokic wins MVP | Draymond Green

Welcome to the brand new Draymond Green Show YouTube channel. Hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any of our content. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. The Knicks continue to run, uh, behind Jalen Brunson. Incredible play. Um, every series has at least one gameplay so far, so we'll talk about those. Uh, we got an interesting, fun guest. How about this? It's actually the first non-basketball guest on the Draymond Green Show, but he is a basketball guest in an interesting way, and we'll get to that. I'm gonna keep that a secret for now. But for those of y'all out there, you know we are on live on the Bleacher Report app. So make sure you throw your questions in the chat. We will get to those later before we finish out the show. And like I said, in the meantime, In between this time, we'll have a guest here. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, youtube.com/@DraymondGreenShow. Let's get into it. The Knicks beat the Pacers 130 to 121. And remember, I said the Pacers kind of need to be the first to 120, and that only doesn't work if you give up 130 points. We also discussed how I didn't think the Pacers was a 16-game team. I think they're more of an 82-game team because they don't play defense. And you give up 130 and Jalen Brunson misses an entire quarter. You give up 130 and OG Anunoby has 28 points in 28 minutes and goes out the game with a hamstring injury. You're, you're kind of playing no defense. And that's who the Pacers has been all year. I think they're having it. They've had an incredible season, but. the buck stops at some point when you don't play defense and you think you're just gonna outscore people. Uh, that has never worked in the NBA. It never will work in the NBA. So, um, that's that. Some more interesting news out of the Knicks camp. Jalen Brunson has now passed Carmelo Anthony in playoff points. Um, and I know it's been this debate about is Jalen Brunson Uh, like one of the greatest Knicks ever already and all of these things.

And the NBA playoffs are heating up, man. They have been so good. I know it's over, but Lakers-Nuggets may have been a 5-game series. It was great. Knicks-Sixers, amazing. Why don't you sign up for the DraftKings Sportsbook app? Takes 90 seconds. The official sports betting partner of the NBA. If you're in DraftKings, Once you sign up, you gotta check this out. New customers bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets instantly. Great proposition, right? $5, get $150. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. The code's Colin, C-O-L-I-N. It's me, C-O-L-I-N. Really quick, really easy. If you've never bet sports before, check it out. Really makes the games fun. The code is Colin. New customers get $150 in bonus bets by betting $5. Only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.

I have a hard time saying Jalen Brunson is higher up than Melo because I came in the league underneath Melo. You know, Melo was one of the superstars in the league when I came in. And you know, just watching Melo my entire life, you know, I feel like one of those old heads that be hating on the younger guys. Like, when our generation, when this guy did that, and can never see past that. But I still gotta roll with Melo for now. But Jalen Brunson, is making his mark. And I think right now is a great time for us to bring on our guests because if we gonna talk Knicks, I wanna talk Knicks with these crazy-ass Knicks fans that they just banter and banter and banter. So let's welcome our guests to the show. Uh, the host of the All In podcast, one of the most successful angel investors of our time, Jason Calacanis, my friend. What's up, Draymond? What's up, my brother?

It's good to be here. And I have been watching and taking notes on the Draymond Green Show. I know you have a lot of feelings about the Knicks, and you know I have a lot of feelings about the Knicks, and I've been rooting for them my whole life since the Patrick Ewing era when I got to see Jordan and Ewing and Alonzo Mourning and all this stuff. And you've been dogging me in the group chat and at poker. For over a decade about my Knicks. And here we are. You're in Cabo getting that fishing in, in May, getting that early sun. And my Knicks, my Knicks in 6 in the first round versus the MVP with our future MVP. And here we are. Looks like the brooms are out for Pacers. I, I called it a gentleman sweep 5, and I'm ready for Celtics. I'm ready for Celtics. And you know what? The Celtics do not want to play the Knicks. I can tell you that.

Y'all actually think that y'all, number one, he talks about me being outta the playoffs. So again, when I talk delusional Knicks fans, he talks about me being out the playoffs, being efficient in Cabo in early May as if they've won a championship. Y'all are in the second round. Like it's the second round of the playoffs.

You have no idea, Draymond. If you, if you have a man who's dying in the desert, right? And you give them a Dixie cup of water, that's like swimming in an ocean for us, man. This is, you just pop champagne bottles. I'm at the buffet. We have been starving for decades. We got a little bit of Carmelo, you know, but since then, you know, we, we've had a lot of pain. You know, we had dead Tony, we had Eddie Curry. I mean, we've had pain and suffering, man. Let us enjoy it is what I'm trying to tell you, Draymond. Let us enjoy it. But that, I have questions for you. And by the way, I just wanna say your podcast is so great outta the gate.

Thank you.

And you went from doing, you know, what's really easy, you know, being part of a panel or popping in other people's podcasts to the second most difficult, which is doing solo podcasts. And you know, doing a solo podcast is so hard and you do it so tight, especially after you're getting off the court. You know, when you do it after a game, I mean, unprecedented. And so I just wanna give you a lot of, a lot of kudos for that. 'Cause it's, it's impressive to me for somebody who's done 2,000 episodes of podcasts. Thank you.

I appreciate that.

The question I have, you know, for you is, you know, Brunson, we as Knick fans have been watching him get better and better and better. And he had those moments, you know, on the Mavs when Luka was out. And I, I asked Mark Cuban, we're friendly, and I said, how good is this kid we traded for here? And he said, he's very good. I said, how much upside? He says, he's got upside. But this is more upside than the entire NBA expected. So for sure, putting aside, you know, the fact that you're very rarely not in the postseason and the Knicks are never in the postseason, I, I wanted to ask you, as a player, what are we seeing from Brunson? Because there's people, you know, Chuck and, and Shaq who are kind of dogging the Knicks. You're dogging them. But let's talk about that player because I've been watching all season as he gets better and better and more unstoppable and more unstoppable and The floater, the 3, the picks. I mean, the mid-range. This kid can do it all. So, so how good is he? Putting aside the Carmelo comparison, just how good is he? And is there upside left? My 2 questions for you.

Y'all see this crazy bromance going on? This man just gave us a complete rundown of Jalen Brunson on the Draymond Green Show. But I'm here for it cuz I actually like and respect Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson is a winner, has been a winner, so he got my respect. But here's the thing, J. Cal. If Jalen Bronson was who he is today and everybody believed that he would be who he is today, he wouldn't be a Knick. Because you don't let, you don't let star players get away, let alone walk for nothing. And he walked from the Dallas Mavericks for absolutely nothing. Right. Nothing. The fact that they are actually in, in the position that they're in when you lost a guy like that for absolutely nothing one year prior is absolutely incredible, uh, in itself. But no one expected Jaylen to be this. Um, no, he also wouldn't have signed— when Jaylen signed his deal, which I think is right around 4 years, $100 million or something like that.

Yeah, about $25 million a year.

Everybody was like, oh my God, he's overpaid. I can't believe they paid him that money. Do they think he's gonna be a number one option? Worldwide West is paying him because he's had a relationship with him since he was a kid. You know, Leon Rose, they're taking care of their CAA guys. And although it appeared that way, that that's what was happening. I mean, the NBA even launched an entire— Yeah. Um, yes, tampering, uh, allegation thing over because Uncle Wes was so close to Jalen and the family all these years. And all of those things were launched from the NBA standpoint, meaning nobody thought that this, this was who this kid would be and that it was only happening— he was— they were only signing him to the Knicks because they were taking care of family. And Jalen has made everybody look like idiots. He's made, he's put the New York Knicks on his back. He's got people talking about him within the ranks of the greatest Knicks of all times. And although the Knicks hasn't won a ton, the great Knicks that have played, like there's been great Knicks that have played for the team.

Yeah.

And when you look at what he's done over and over and over again, he missed the entire second quarter last night. And has 20+ points in the second half to carry those guys to a win. I mean, it's, it's been incredible. To Mark's point, he has some upside for sure, but no one believed that he had this much upside because no one, well, the Dallas Mavericks would've never let him walk.

No, they would've got some picks. They would've done a sign and trade. This was the best signing that we've seen, like a straight up signing since when? Like when do players ever just get signed in the free market? Doesn't happen anymore.

It doesn't happen unless you're Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, who's just trying to get back home, right? Like they were trying to get back to Los Angeles. But you don't really get signings like that. And like I said, it's not even so much the signing because we've seen big guys like Kevin Durant sign with the Warriors, right? Like we've seen Shaquille O'Neal, like you've seen over the years star players sign other places. But the thing about Jaylen is, the thing about this signing is again, the value of the contract.

It's incredible.

So they got this guy. Now here's the thing for Jaylen, when like he has to make All-NBA and do these things so that he can get the full max extension. Because if not, if he doesn't, and I'm not even sure that that's how the rule works, but Jaylen with years of service, I don't think he'll be able to sign a max extension. And don't fully quote me on that, 'cause I could be a little off with the rule. Yeah. But I don't think he'll be able to sign a full max extension unless the Knicks have cap space. And if they have cap space, they can use that. But because the extensions work on the last number of your contract, so you get a 7.5% raise, I think he's able to get. On the last number of his contract. That doesn't put him near the full max. That's the situation the Knicks are in. And that's what makes this signing even better than, than the play is looking.

Okay, so now I got another question for you. And I think that that's a really important way to set the table for my next question. 'Cause Dallas didn't know what they were giving up. And obviously nobody in the league knew he had this much potential. And the Knicks obviously knew he had potential, but they were putting him alongside Randle and our number 3 pick at the time, Mid-Jay, I'm sorry, RJ Barrett.

Oh, the RJ Strays.

This is Strays.

Strays. He's a fly. I never liked the kid. He just—

Jesus.

Come on. Every time he drove the basket, he would miss layups. You can't miss layups.

So Knicks fans hated RJ Barrett.

We just felt he was a blocker and not committed. He didn't feel like he had the conditioning, the heart. He didn't draw, he didn't fit. The dog mode that Tibbs and the Knicks fans want. We want dogs on our team. We want Mason, we want Oakley, we want Starks, we want grit, we want people who play both sides defense. And if there's a scruff, you know, we basically want Oakley, Draymond Green level players who are going to fight to the end. This is why when I met you, I said, you know, like, in another lifetime, you would've been a Knick because the Garden would love you, Draymond. You know that. And I don't know how many years you got left in the tank, but So wait, you think— Any way to get you on my Knicks.

You think y'all got better with getting RJ out?

I absolutely believe RJ was a blocker for our success. 100%.

Wow.

Because you gotta remember, who did we get when we got rid of RJ? We got OG.

OG.

And OG is a, the, the Tibbs, Tibbs player. He'll play, he'll play 40, 42, 48, whatever number of minutes you give him, he'll play defense. He'll set screens and he can score the 3. This is what Tibbs wants. So this is my next question. How much credit do you give to this front office? Because you worked with the best front office, I don't know, in 20 years, and you put together the 2 best, most beautiful teams since, you know, the, the— what was it? The '73 win Bulls, the '72 win Bulls, whatever.

'72 win. There's only one team with 73.

'73, that's you. And then '72 was theirs. So let's pause for a second here. They got OG the year before we got Hart. We got your guy, Al Donte. He was underrated, clearly. And, uh, then this kid Hartenstein, who is like, I mean, a passing big man with the soft touch and the floater. How, how good is our front office? Because we have nobody. I think our highest rated draft pick is maybe the 16th or 17th. You know something about going low in the draft and then absolutely becoming an all-star and a champion. How good is our front office? Because we've now established that we got Brunson for a steal. Now go down the line. The 4 players I just talked about, Hartenstein, Hart, OG, and your guy, Aldonte. How good is our front office right now?

I think y'all front office has done great. For all those, for all those things that has happened with y'all team that you just named, I think the front office has done a great job in putting together a team that is just good enough to excite Knicks fans in the Garden and just good enough to win a couple playoff series and not quite good enough to win a championship. I think y'all front office has done an incredible job of that. I'll also tell you another underrated move of the front office, um, bringing in Tibbs because Tibbs actually fits your, like, to your point of what you just described with the New York Knicks, Tibbs actually fits what New York New York culture is. It's go, go, go, hustle, bustle. You hit the streets of New York, you're walking to this meeting, you're running to that meeting, you're crossing over in front of this taxi. Like it's go, go, go, go, go. Josh Hart's playing 48 minutes. Jalen Brunson's playing 46 minutes. Dante's playing 45 minutes. Like that, he actually fits the New York model like bar none. Now here's the thing though. When you start talking about all of those Olympic, excuse me, all of those minutes, O.G. Anunoby hamstring, you know, like it don't always show up right then, but it shows up in the most important times and yet kind of the worst times. Like O.G. Anunoby is probably now out for this series. Like that's a big game changer.

Hamstring is not pretty, right?

That's a hard one.

He's probably like, he probably won't be back until midway through the next series. And when he gets back from that, he probably still won't be right. Like that's gonna take a while to get over because you also gotta get over that mentally. And so to your question, I think the front office has done an incredible job from the coaching staff they've put together to the roster that they've put together. But I'm gonna tell you this, Coach Izzo used to tell me this term all the time. And he used to say, Draymond, We have this term in basketball, in coaching, we have this term in coaching that we like to use. And he, and you know, when you look around, a lot of guys really fit into the mold. And I'm like, all right, coach, what's the term? Just good enough to lose with. And that's what I think the Knicks are. I think the Knicks are fun team to watch. I think they're hard-nosed. I think they got guys that compete, but I don't think they quite have enough.

Yeah.

To get over the finish line. And guess what? It's looking like there's gonna be a new champion in the NBA this year. A young champion that we've never seen in the NBA before as a champion leading a team to a championship. That look like it's pretty much gonna happen 'cause I think Denver's toast. And so the only chance that doesn't happen is if Denver wins again. They don't stand a chance. However, it's— I'm sorry to tell you, J. Cal.

Yeah.

I don't quite think it's the Knicks' year.

I don't— You know, I think so. I don't necessarily think like this is the year, the year we've lost. We've been down, we've been down basically 3 starters, 4 starters this year, and we still put up a 50 burger, 50 burgers on the grill without, without the blockness monster Mitch Robinson, without Randle, who's a bulldog and had his best season, and he seemed to got his head straight this year and accepted a role. And, you know, got downhill and just made quicker moves. Because I don't know if you saw the Atlanta series a couple of years ago, man. The big stage in the Garden.

He was— It was bad. It was real bad.

He was bad. I mean, this year was his best, best performance. I'm kind of bummed about him. And so, you know, we, we're realistic. It ain't pretty, but it's gritty. And nobody wants to face us because you were out there saying, oh, we're not getting past the 76ers. Joel Embiid, we got no answer. Man, Joel could not move.

Zip, zip, zip. The guy could not move.

He's out there playing. He was 80, what was he, 70%?

He's out there playing on half of a knee. Can't move. Like, come on. All right, but listen.

You still thought they were gonna beat us. You still thought the Pacers were gonna beat us.

I'm gonna tell you what this is gonna lead the Knicks to. I'll tell you what this is gonna lead the Knicks to.

Okay, tell me.

You just mentioned the Atlanta Hawks. Okay. And when they beat y'all, and when they beat y'all in the Garden.

Yep.

That team then thought that they had a squad that was ready to compete. And they haven't reached near the conference finals since then. They've barely reached the playoffs since then because like in the Eastern Conference, the Eastern Conference weak as fuck. In the Eastern Conference, you can sometimes get the right matchups even all the way up to the conference finals. So I'm gonna tell you this, there's a 0% chance in the NBA I mean, excuse me, in the Western Conference that you're gonna get to the conference finals without facing like a dog ass team. And in the, in the Eastern Conference you can get to the conference finals à la Atlanta Hawks with like playing very mid teams. And so that's kind of what y'all are doing right now. And I think what this is setting up for y'all up for is what happened to the Atlanta Hawks 3 years ago when they made the conference finals and they never got back. Another team.

Yeah.

—to give you some perspective on this. Oh, hold on. Nope. But one second. Another team that did this, to give you some perspective on this, was the Portland Trail Blazers years ago when they had Al-Farouq Aminu, Alan Crabbe, all those guys. They had all those guys and they went to the conference finals and we swept them pretty much without Steph Curry coming. Because Steph Curry came back game 4 of the sweep, came off the bench, had 5 points or 6 points the whole game, and then went— crazy in overtime. That's— and, and that Portland Trailblazers team, they never did anything again. They— however, you know what they did? They ran off and paid all of those guys because they thought they had a team that had a chance, and, and it was a fluke. And so that's what the Knicks are setting y'all up for right now. And it'll be probably another 15 years of misery that we all sit around and laugh at Knicks fans with their delusion about—

Here we go, Knicks for clicks.

That's just, that's just what happens.

You know what's going to happen now. Everybody wants to play on the big stage. You said it yourself. You love the Garden. It is the Mecca. And now we have a high-functioning team. And our owner, he's busy. He's busy with his Sphere. He's happy. Dolan's happy. He's got music, he got tech, he's in Vegas, he got the Eagles, he got U2. He's not courtside. And you know who we got courtside? We got Oak, Starks, DeBusch. I mean, we got— Yeah. Not to push your recipes, but we got everybody. They got Steph Barber on the sun. We got the Knicks dialed in. We have more picks than we could ever use. We have more picks, first round picks, second round picks. We are stocked. And you know what? This is the time that a great player— could be Spider, could be somebody else— says, you know what? If I was part of that squad, I'd be the missing piece. And you know about getting the missing piece because you've helped. Maybe sort of, kinda, you know, no tampering, but you've kind of sort of talked to people about, you know, where maybe their future lies.

So, so you think Donovan Mitchell gets y'all over the hump?

They're not going down, they're going up. Who we gonna land this summer?

You think Donovan Mitchell gets y'all over the hump? You think if y'all get Donovan Mitchell, that gets y'all over the hump? Is that, is that what you and Mitch felt?

I'm just talking about getting better every season, which is what we've done since Tibbs has gotten here in the front office.

Here's the problem, J. Cal, you only get so many seasons to be getting better and not win until they bring break it up. So who is the guy that you think or hear, and before we get outta here, who is the guy that you think or you hear that is available around the league that Knicks fans will wanna see come in? And not only see come in, but can see past the Knicks fans' blinder because y'all ain't never won shit in a, in— Yeah. 40-something years, can see past those blinders and say, this guy can actually get us over the top, not come in and get us to the conference finals because we're just happy because we're Knicks fans and we never win. Who is the guy?

I mean, I hear people say Spider, I hear them say Mikal Bridges. I, I hear a lot of names come up. You tell me. I mean, you're in the league and you know, we had KD go to the, the, the New Jersey Nets. Instead of coming to the Knicks. I mean, the worst career move in history. Not only did he leave the dynasty where he was cherished and loved out here, he went to the, the worst franchise, like, in the league. And it was a complete disaster. So, I mean, are we not a place that player— what, what— I mean, you know the back channel. Do players look at the Knicks differently in 2024 than they did when KD and other people just said, you know what, it's whack, the owner's whack, don't go there. Be honest.

If I'm honest, I think it may be a little more intriguing than it was then because people, there was a time in the NBA where guys weren't really looking to go to the Knicks, weren't really looking to go to the Lakers till LeBron went to the Lakers. The Lakers weren't getting any free agents for 5, 6-year period, right? Like where they weren't getting any, they signed Roy Hibbert in free agency, Timothée Mozgov in free agency.

Yeah, they gave him a big check.

Like I love Lou O'Dengue. They signed Lou O'Dengue at the tail end of his career and gave him money. Like, so there was a time where the Lakers couldn't get free agents at all. The Knicks couldn't get free agents at all. And I think guys were really over, playing in the big market like those. Like it didn't really matter if you went to the big market at that time. You know, that was around the time Paul George was a free agent. Kawhi Leonard was a free agent. Like you had guys that could go to these two huge market teams.

Yep.

And they chose not to. And so I don't, however, I think that has changed now. And here's why I think it has changed. I think that has changed because of social media. I think that has changed because of all the other things around basketball, all the business around basketball. Yes. That is not basketball. I think that has changed because guys are now looking at these particular organizations in these cities and saying, that organization, that city can help me with X. So if I go there, then I'm allowed to, I'm able to do this. For instance, LeBron James came to LA He, Maverick, Rich, they built empires in LA in 6, 7 years, right? Like, and so I think guys are now starting to look at those two teams in particular, Warriors and, you know, from a Silicon Valley standpoint.

Silicon Valley.

Like, I think guys are starting to look at these teams now and say, what does that city, what does that organization have to offer me from a standpoint that is much bigger than basketball? And so I don't think you guys will struggle in free agency like you have before because I think you can sell sell those. If you got good free agency pitch, you can sell those things. Like, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, you know, if you're the New York Knicks, you can take someone like yourself in a meeting and say, yo, like, like, you know, like, there's just so many other things now that you can do. Uh, and, and obviously you have to be very selective in what you can do if you take someone like yourself into a pitch, because the Knicks aren't just allowed to say, hey, We bring you in, you can invest with J-Cal. But these are the type of people that are our fans that would love to mentor you.

Yeah, they're in the stands. They'll be in the, they'll be around after the game. You might be able to network and people are really savvy now coming into it. So.

Exactly.

In my dream scenario, we get better, we use these picks wisely. Final 2 questions I have for you. If we had Mitch and Randle, do you think we would make it to the finals and how far will we go? You don't think we're going to beat Boston? I think it's going to be a dogfight. I think it's going 7 games. We'll see if OG's there or not. And then, so that's first. If we have Mitch healthy and we have Randle healthy, or either one, how far we go. And then number 2, you already told us the worst case scenario so you can get your Knicks for clicks. I understand it's a business. Everybody rate and subscribe, post in the comments, turn on the alert bell. It's right here. Okay, we got that out of the— got that out of the way. Professionalism. Best case scenario, but when I'm on next year and we're in the finals, finals, not just the Eastern Conference Finals, who will we have picked up? What is the best case scenario for the Knicks?

If y'all go to the finals this year, we can do an entire, like you, I won't even come on the episode. You take the Draymond Green show episode.

I'll come to the Draymond Green show.

And you take and do whatever you wanna do with it that episode. It could be all Knicks. It could be like, crush him, like whatever you wanna do, you take a Draymond Green episode and you run with it. If the Knicks are in the finals, there's zero chance the Knicks are going to the finals. If y'all had Julius and if y'all had Mitchell Robinson, I don't think either one of those guys put you over the top. They like, if you got Julius Randle, if you got Mitchell Robinson, Neither one of those guys make you better than the Boston Celtics. I don't think so. I also think if you got Julius Randle and early on I actually thought opposite and Jaylen's changed my mind. Early on I thought if y'all had Julius Randle, it gave y'all a much better chance because you had that second scorer and it's that.

Mm-hmm.

However, the way Jaylen is playing, I think Julius would actually be in the way.

Wow. See, I said that and people on like Knicks Fan TV and everything, they were like giving me tomatoes in the chats. And I said, I feel like the offense flows much better. And I think the ascension of Brunson has to do with getting RJ out and Randle outta the way and they, they flow better. So that means you maybe think we trade him this summer and maybe find another piece.

Well, I don't know if it's necessarily that you have to trade him. However, the pieces, all of the pieces have to fit, right? Like you got Josh Hart getting downhill, you got Jalen Brunson getting downhill, and then, you know, even Dante's getting downhill. And so if you have Julius on the court, A, I'm gonna sag off a little more because I'm gonna trust that, yeah, Julius is gonna shoot the 3, but I'm much better being in help positioning than closing out late and getting a good contest. And he can make some 3s, right? But like— Yeah. That's not his strong— It's not his strong suit. The strongest suit of his game.

Too much iso from him. You know, he, every time he gets in the playoffs, he defaults to this iso game instead of the, when he catches the ball, making a quick decision like you do. I mean, I think like the basketball, there's like, his fitness is amazing. His skill is obviously unbelievable, but on a basketball IQ basis, he, he kind of gets into this iso and it's not what the league's about right now. It's just so easy to counter, right?

No, the ball stops. The ball stops for sure. And so if you look at it, and here's how I also look at it, J. Cal, again, and it's not necessarily necessarily that it's like, oh, he needs to be traded. But if you look at how well the Knicks are flowing, right? You got Jalen, you got Dante, you got Josh Hart, you got OG, and you got Hardenstein, right? Well, you gotta pull one of those guys outta the lineup to put Julius in there.

Yeah.

And so which one of them do you pull out? And quite frankly, all of those guys I just named has been extremely vital into the success that y'all are having right now. Yeah. So which one of those guys do you pull out? All of a sudden Hart's not playing 48 minutes, right? Like I actually think him playing 48 minutes is helping y'all now, like in a major way. Yeah. Now I don't think it's overall good for him in the long term, but right now in this moment it's helping y'all. And so when you now with OG going down, that's where Jrue will like really make a difference, right? Because you have depth. But as far as the way the team has, this team has been flowing for y'all, I don't think it float the same if Julius is out there.

100%.

Just because of the dynamic that he has. Not necessarily like the pieces can't go into place.

And could you ask him to lead the second unit or would that just not work?

Well, I mean—

That's a sacrifice to the high-paying guy.

Most people, no. Most coaches won't do that, right? Like Steve will do that and you know, but you, most coaches in the NBA will not ask an all-star to take a role coming off the bench because it just, it like, it never really works. Like we've won championships and all that. You've seen it work. There's proof in the pudding of it working. But like, you gonna ask Julius Randle, "Hey man, I want you to come off the bench so OG Anunoby can start." Julius first thought, "He ain't never been an All-Star. I'm an All-Star. What are you talking about?" You know? And so I don't think that— Mm-hmm. It, it's just apples to apples. Like, oh, he'd be in it and we'd be better. Like, 'cause you're rooting for—

Even if it's the same number of minutes, players don't want that 'cause it damages their, it damages their brand in their next contract. Right?

Exactly. Exactly. So.

So it's money at the end of the day.

Absolutely. J-Calf.

That's what the paper—

My brother, I appreciate you coming on.

Oh, thanks.

Letting people hear this delusion of Knicks fans. Absolutely.

This guy clearly— And I appreciate you being in denial and good luck. I hope you got a good box of lures and I got the right bait lined up for you to get those Big Marlin. I'm rooting for you out there, Draymond. It's gotta be tough for you to be watching the, the playoffs. Does it make you crazy to watch it? You know what? And not be there?

We'll end on this note. I was just telling—

It makes you crazy.

I was just telling a friend yesterday, I said, it's very interesting watching these playoffs because all year, I said, all year I've, I watched the NBA and you could kind of see a change of guard happening. Like—

Of course.

You could 100% see it happening. I said, and for me, I think a couple of things. I think it's funny. I think it's cool to watch. And I was telling him, I feel like the reason that I feel like that, that's how I feel about it. Like it's funny and it's fun to watch and like it's super dope seeing these young guys because I've been a part of the change of guard before. Like—

Yes.

I've been in the league and been a part of the change of guard and watching it from that standpoint of the change of guard and now watching it From this vantage point, it's super dope to kind of see both sides of it and actually understand it. However, in winning 4 championships, I'm cool with the change of guard. Like, I'm— however, I think there's a lot of guys in the league that if you start talking about the change of guard, they ain't really feeling that.

They're holding on. They're holding on.

Yeah. And so I said all of that to say, I'm enjoying watching these playoffs. I think it's been fun to watch. I think You know, just really sitting back, spending time with my family. You know, taking it all in with no dog in the fight has been great. But we back next year, J. Cal. I can't do this shit again. Of course you are. Of course you are.

Can't do it again. It's wonderful to watch. It's been wonderful to be friends with you and to watch your career. And now this second act here, you know, with the new media. I mean, you're just so good at what you do and you bring joy and fun to it, you know? And that's just like such a great combination. Somebody who's having the joy and has the skill. And then you put another axis on it there that you don't care. You're gonna do you. That is what makes you so special. Don't lose it. You, you bring it to the pod. You, I've watched so many games. I, it's just so beautiful to watch those Warriors teams, both iterations when you had Bogut, when you, you know, when you had D. Lee and then now, I mean, it's just been extraordinary to watch and to be your friend and, uh, just love you, bestie. And I love you too, bestie.

I appreciate you. I got you. I'll see you soon.

Uh, yes. Can't wait to see you soon.

And if, if these bones, make it to, and not bums, literally, like I like the guys, but just the Knicks overall. I don't think the Knicks is, if the Knicks make it to the finals.

No, no, I'll drop in for when we're up, you know, 3-2 games versus Boston. I'll invite myself on the show when we're 3-2 versus Boston. We'll have a little conversation about your ability to predict with the Knicks, which this is something you can improve on as a broadcaster. I think you gotta watch a little more of the regular season to get a flavor for how the Knicks are playing. 'Cause we're dogs. It ain't pretty, but it's gritty.

Well, I'll have you back when they get those gentleman brooms out.

Oh, I think that's what, what do you think, Pacers is gonna be a 6-game series? You think it's 6 now?

Nah, no chance this is going 6. 5 max.

5 max.

All right.

Thank you.

Love you, brother. All right, love you too, brother. Thank you. Cheers. Oh man, that was fun. Great friend of mine. All right, so how about this? J-Cal, and we're gonna talk about these Thunder and the Mavericks. J-Cal, back at Oracle, way back in the days when I was a benchwarmer, Knicks, Bogut and David Lee, who was once a Knick, they play in this poker game that I play in, and it's with J-Cal and a bunch of other our friends. And this was before I, A, signed my first big deal, but B, got in the poker game. I hadn't even learned how to play poker yet. And it's this guy sitting next to our bench, like going ape shit, like trolling Bogut, trolling David Lee, like going crazy. And I'm sitting here like, yo, this guy is nuts. And this was before, like, you know, the NBA would kind of really monitor that. And so he's just going crazy on David Lee, crazy on Bogut. He's crushing them. And then come full circle, they're like, yo, that's our boy J-Cal. J-Cal. Huge Knicks fan. So I'm happy you all got to see the delusion of the Knicks. Thunder and the Mavericks, uh, 117 to 95 on Tuesday. Uh, Kyrie, 20 points, 7 for 14 from the field, 3 assists. Luka, Luka has been struggling. 19 points, 9 assists, 6 rebounds, 6 of 19 shooting, and only 1 of 8 from 3. And who a lot of people believe were the MVP snub. Uh, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 29, 9, and 9. 8 for 19, 11 for 13 from the line. Man, I know I told you all I think the Dallas Mavericks are winning this series and they just got mopped. And I've spoken to you all about how hard it is to win game 2 when you win game 1 the way the Thunder did. They won game 1 in the worst possible way you can win it. For yourself moving forward in Game 2. They now gonna have a very upset Luka, a very upset Kyrie, a very upset Dallas Mavericks team, and they gotta hold that off. I still think the Mavericks ultimately will take this series, but I saw something that the Mavericks were doing that I think they really need to, I think they really need to, to, um, I think they really need to adjust on the offensive end. And that is a lot of times Kyrie Irving was standing in the corner. Dallas was bringing a guard into the ball screen to set the first screen on Ludo, essentially to try to get the switch and off of Luka. And then they were bringing in the big. And what was happening was the big was all the way up at the level of the screen. But even more importantly, the guard who was supposed to switch the initial wasn't switching. He was almost just jumping into a corral and corralling Luka and then letting— and then letting, uh, Lu Dort get through. And now Lu Dort's back into the body of Luka. He's closer to the sideline, and you just got that big up at the level. What then proceeded to happen from that point was one of two things. They weren't honoring— number one, they weren't honoring that first guard to say you had Derek Jones setting it, you had Josh Green setting it. They weren't honoring those guys at all. They did not care about those guys setting the screen. That was number one. So then what proceeded to happen was Luka had no other choice but to hit Gafford on the roll. Luka had no other choice but to hit Derek Lively on the roll. And when he's hitting those guys on the roll, oh, excuse me, on the roll, There, there, Gafford was just going to the hole trying to finish, but he's catching the ball so far out that it wasn't the type of finishes that Derek Gafford was getting. Excuse me, Daniel Gafford. When Daniel Gafford was making 33 shots in a row and we were hearing about this throughout the season, free field goal attempts in a row, he was getting dunks, he was getting lobs, he was getting rebound putbacks. Now, So what being up at the level of that screen did was it made the pocket higher, meaning Gafford's catching the ball so much further out to where by the time he gets to the rim, OKC's having 3 guys at the rim contesting. And although they don't have much size, it's a lot of bodies to get through. And they're in such great position that legal guarding position, if they just jump up, it didn't really matter how much size they had. Because he was jumping from so far out. And so I think, number one, if they're going to continue to hit Gafford in the pocket that high up, Gafford at some point is gonna have to look weak side and spray. Now, in looking weak side and spray, you're spraying to Josh Green. This is also where the Mavericks will miss Maxie Klaiber. Nobody wants to talk about Maxie Klaiber being out. That's a big loss for Dallas. They're spraying out to Josh Green. They're spraying out to Derrick Jones Jr. They're spraying out to Derrick Jones Jr. Ran out to PJ Washington. And those guys didn't shoot the ball well at all last game. And so, OKC lived with those guys catching and shooting and it did not work. It did not work at all. Derek Lively, I actually thought was the opposite. He wasn't aggressive enough and was only looking for the skip out. But with his skip out, again, who were you skipping it out? Who were you skipping it out to? And so I think that was really big. And I think if Dallas is going to continue to set that screen, first screen with the guard to try to get the switch. The screen has to be set with Kyrie Irving. And the reason it has to be set with Kyrie Irving is because when Kyrie Irving slip out in college— uh, when Kyrie Irving slip out in space and they're in coverage, Kyrie Irving can now make a play. So guess what? They can't stay in coverage. They can't corral. Because if you hit Kyrie with a man down Remember the big is up the floor already on the opposite side waiting on Luka to come off. So, and Kyrie Irving, man, is there. Now you got Kyrie Irving coming downhill. Forget the other two shooters. You can bring all three guys in. Kyrie Irving's finishing over three guys, two guys, floater, mid-range pull-up. Kyrie Irving is finishing that stuff. And so I think they're gonna have to bring Kyrie into more action, more ball screens with Luka and Kyrie setting it for each other. Let's see how they handle that. Now we got the switch. Now you sprint the big into it. Now they're trying to react. Now you got Lou Dort gotta pull in for help. Lou Dort's been all over these guys, right? So once Lou Dort then switches off and he's on Luka or Kyrie, he's not helping off those guys. Now you got that guy coming off to make the play with the big rolling fast 'cause he's came up sprinting. Now you can get into the actions that you want to get into. Now you can have Luka making the reads that he can make. Now Luka won't be 1 for 8 from 3 because he'll be more in a rhythm. And those shots will get easier. It'll soften the defense up. And so I still think Dallas is winning this game. I mean, excuse me, winning this series. Uh, OKC looked really good. You gotta give those guys a lot of credit, but I still think I got Dallas taking it. And who's going to have to play better? And he's had a down year. Tim Hardaway Jr. Tim Hardaway Jr. Gonna have to play better. He gonna have to make some shots. If this team is gonna win, like I said, especially without Maxie Kleber, Tim Hardaway Jr. must have a game or two in order for them to win this series because they need the shooting. They really need, really need the shooting. And so, Tim, I think Dallas has a real chance of competing to get to the finals. I really do. And Tim is going to have to play better. And I think J-Kidd does, they gonna have to do some things to loosen up Luka more and not have him operating at the free throw line. I also think they're gonna have to speed their pace up a bit. You speed your pace up, now the defense isn't getting set every time. And if Lou Dort wants to pick up Luka the way he was, start setting that screen up higher. Start setting that screen up at half court. You set the screen at half court, now you got Luka coming downhill at the big, And the whole floor opens up. Now you got Lou Dort chasing the play. Well, guess what? Luka's 6'8", what, 240 pounds? Big body. Once you get behind, he's gonna put you in jail. You're not getting back in front of him. And by the way, if you fight to get back in front of him, welcome to the world of Jalen Brunson. Step back.

Yeah.

'Cause you fighting to recover as opposed to riding the hip. And so, And if you ride Luka hip, he's got so much size, he just put you on the hip and like see over you, get the shot he wants. And so I think they gonna need to play with a little more pace as well. Set some higher up screens, free Luka up, and then also get the ball in Kyrie Irving's hands a little more. Uh, 20 points on 7 for 14 shooting, and Luka only took what, 18 shots, 19 shots? Kyrie Irving needs to attempt more than 14 shots. So, As you all know, I got the Mavericks beating the Thunder, and I still think it's happening. I'm not getting hellbent over a 22-point loss. It's 1-0, and that's all that means. Uh, before we get out of here, we'll take our questions. Joker, third MVP in four seasons, Shai runner-up. Uh, do I feel it was the correct decision? Here's why. I mean, Joker's great. However, I think the way Shea closed the season, he had a great season all year, but the way he closed the season, the way it came down the stretch of who was gonna get the number one seed, like the number one seed and all that stuff mattered when Joker got the number one seed, but now it don't matter when Shea get the number one seed. I thought the way the season closed out, I'm not necessarily gonna say Shea should've won, I think it should have been a lot closer though. I think the race should have been a lot closer. But a lot of these voters have their mind made up far before they should. You know, guys see it in January, like this is my MVP. Minds made up too early and it's hard to move them off that. And I think, you know, Shai was hit with a case of that. And it's unfortunate, but he got, you know, Shai will continue to get better as he has in this league. And I think his time is coming, but congrats to Joker. Well deserved. You know, the work that he continues to put in, what he continues to do to opposing defenses every night is unmatched and unlike pretty much anything we've ever seen in the league at the way he's going about it from the position that he's doing it. So shout out to Joker. Congrats on another one. Jackson, before we get out of here, can we get a couple questions please?

Yeah.

Yes, sir. From Kev GZ, has Jalen Brunson become the best point guard in the NBA with his performances in the playoffs so far?

Fuck no, Steph Curry in the NBA, dude, are you crazy? What? Come on, y'all. Next. That's ridiculous. Steph Curry still in the NBA, he's still great. Come on. Stop it. What?

From @savteh, should the Timberwolves be the favorites to win it all right now?

Luka Dončić is also a point guard.

As is Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.

Jesus, you kidding me? Golly, what is wrong with these people? Sorry, go ahead, say that again.

From @savteh, should the Timberwolves be the favorites to win it all at this point?

Should they be the favorites? What has Boston done wrong to take them off being the favorites? I don't know that Boston has done anything wrong to lose their spots as the favorite. The Timberwolves are playing great, but Boston is pretty much doing what everybody expected them to do. So I don't know what they did to not be the favorite anymore. In saying that, I think, yeah, I believe in— Draymond Green. I believe the Timberwolves should win. But I just don't know what all these people in the world are like, oh, Boston's not the favorite. I was never of the assumption that Boston was a favorite because I thought we were the favorite, but that's a story for another day.

Okay, let's do, on the topic of the MVP and on the topic of the Celtics, from @BeanXPac, has Jason Tatum become underrated? People are discrediting him because of all the talent around him.

Has JT become underrated? I don't think he's become underrated. I just think when you're in superstar territory, which Jaylen, Jason Tatum is a superstar. When you're in superstar territory, there's this imaginary clock that people start on you. And once they start the clock, you essentially have, a certain amount of time to step your second foot through the window. Like your first foot in, like you're halfway in and halfway out the window. And then they need you to step your second foot in the window. And how do you do that? Well, Jason's clock started with going to what, 5 or 6 conference finals in the first 6, 7 years of his career. And so his clock started. And because his clock started on that front, obviously he was already a great player. But his clock started on that front and they have not won. And so now because they haven't won, what Jayson is up against is not winning because everybody viewed, oh, this guy, they went to the conference finals, he's young, they're gonna win it. And he hasn't. And so people are now holding that against him. And so no, I don't think he's underrated. I think everyone thinks very much still that Jayson Tatum is who Jayson Tatum is. However, that imaginary clock that gets to running on people when they have success early in the league, à la Devin Booker, from a scoring standpoint, his clock started running on, is he gonna become a superstar or not, right? That clock starts running and if you don't step in it, it closes. The Memphis Grizzlies' clock started running because they start barking. They were playing against us. We gonna beat them. I'm running up the chimney. Their clock started running. They haven't stepped into that window. Guess what? Everybody's on to no longer talking about Ja Morant. They're on to Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. When your clock starts, you gotta step through that window or people are on to the next one. And that's what I think Jayson Tatum is up against. So I don't think he's underrated. I think that imaginary clock is getting him right now. And unfortunately, it's not much you can do about the imaginary clock. So— Yeah. In order for Jason to get back what people believed and to get back to being viewed as that, gotta win the championship. And it's unfortunate and it's unfair because it doesn't happen to everybody, but you know, life ain't fair as they say. Although I think life is very fair. And I think everybody end up getting what they deserve in the end. That's what they say. So we shall see. But that is a wrap from this episode of the Draymond Green Show. Thank you all for tuning in. Thank you, J Cal, for coming to show the supporters of the Draymond Green Show how fucking delusional Knicks fans are, how satisfied they are with a first round win and being up 2-0 in the second round. And they'll get to the conference finals and act like they won 4 championships. And that is just who the Knicks have been, but good luck to them. Till next time, peace.

Peace.