Jayson Tatum on Jaylen Brown chemistry, Celtics turnaround & Coach K | The Draymond Green Show

Hi, it's Colin Cowherd. I started The Volume to bring you some of the most authentic voices in sports. While you're here, make sure you hit subscribe. Thanks.

Man, I'm honored to welcome this next guest to the show. A guy who, number one, I've had the chance to win a gold medal with, but also someone who I've had the opportunity to build a relationship with, to call a little brother, to try to share knowledge that I've learned over my 10 years and give it back to the younger guys that's taking this league by the storm and taking over the league. And so I'm honored to welcome this next guest, all-star, another all-star on the Draymond Green Show, none other than Jayson Tatum. JT, what's up, my brother?

My dog, appreciate you having me.

Absolutely. I appreciate you coming on, man. I've been, you know, we trying to keep this thing going, man. Having all-stars on here. Like you can't show up unless your resume right, man. So, you know, I appreciate you coming on, allowing us to keep that streak going.

Nah, no problem. No problem.

Absolutely. But, you know, first off, I wanna, obviously this will be a lot about you, about your career. You know, I wanna know, number one is starting off, man, one of the things that I admire most about you, and this is even before I really got to know you, is just how you are as a father. And you know, we all see the pictures of you and Deuce. You know, we see him with you all the time. But as you and I both know, in this life, a lot of things can be staged. You know, but getting the opportunity to know you and seeing how hands-on you are with him is one of the things that I admire about you. So first off, I just wanna know like, how is it for you being a father to your son?

Man, I mean, as you know, it is by far the best thing in life. You know, bigger than any accomplishment any award, any amount of money. That genuine, you know, relationship, especially like, you know, I got a son. So as he's gotten older and as I've gotten older, just our relationship and it's almost like that's my mini me, right?

Mm-hmm.

So like, and I've had the privilege and the honor of like, you know, I had him when I was 19. I didn't, I ain't plan it. It was an accident, so be it. But us, you know, him growing up, you know, as a kid and me growing in my career and basically, you know, we sharing this journey together. And that was a big thing for me that, you know, first year in the league and, you know, he was born December 6th, 2017. You know, I wasn't going to sacrifice either. I wasn't going to let one take me from the other. I was going to, you know, in a way, take on both challenges of like, I'm gonna be the best father I can be and I'm gonna be the best basketball player I can be. And we know we gonna make it both work at the same time. And it's not really like work, you know, now it's become second nature. Like, you know, that's just part of my routine. That's part of my day. It's just like, you know what I'm saying? Me and Deuce, you know, we rocking out.

That's incredible, man. I think, I love it, man. 'Cause I know for me personally, You know, I have two daughters as well. And you know, that relationship, I look forward to you one day having a daughter. 'Cause that relationship with them girls.

Yeah.

It's just a little different. Like obviously, but like you said, with your little man, it's like your mini me, you know? And that's kind of how I, you know, that's how I am with DJ. It's like, you know, people see him on the sideline at the games, but like he had all the practice. Like this dude feel like he a part of the team.

Right.

He be saying stuff to me like, "Hey, you went to the gym without me?" Everybody wanted to see me. They ain't want to see you.

Right.

And you know, but that's, it's so important to be able to share the journey with them. You know, because the reality is our kids are growing up totally different than we grew up. You know what I'm saying? Like they're growing up with a silver spoon. You know, they're growing up with access to all of these different things, to a totally different life. Than we ever grew up with. And my everyday thing or my everyday thought is like, how do I give to my kids? And especially my son, how do I give to them what Saginaw gave to me that I know Saginaw isn't giving to them?

Mm-hmm.

How can I still instill some of that in them? You know? And so I think for me, that's the big thing. And that's why I love how hands-on you are with him, how much you have him around. Because man, that's like, you can't pay for that experience. And so it's such a beautiful thing, man.

For sure.

It's such a—

And now you, that's the million dollar question. Like you said, we worked so hard to give our kids, you know, a better life than we had growing up. And like, that's what you're supposed to do as a parent, but you spot on. Like, you know, especially like raising young men, You know, how do I instill that toughness or that work ethic that, you know, just living in St. Louis every day that, you know, was just a part of my everyday life. Whereas, you know, Deuce, he come to NBA games, he sitting courtside, he in the locker room, he on private jets, we going to islands. Like all he know is paradise and new sneakers and all that. So it is like, especially as you get older, it's something that I definitely gotta work on of like, that balance, right? Of like, you know, enjoying this life, but understanding that like, you know, you gotta, at some point you gotta work for a life of your own. But nah, that's definitely the million dollar question.

I think, you know, one of the interesting things that I did when you think about really setting your kids up for the future, which I think is a very important thing. And you start talking about a will and a trust. Like for me, My girls get money at 18. My son don't get money till 21. Because the reality is, it's like, for my girls, I don't want them to ever feel like, or a guy to ever feel like he can control them because of something that he have. Or for them to feel like, man, I need to turn to this guy to rely on him. But for my son, at 18, nah, bro, like, what you doing? Like, you going to school? You going to work? Like, what's up? What you doing? And the maturity level of guys and girls are a little different as well. Guys mature a little slower. So that's kind of something that I'm— that's something that I am doing with my kids. And I thought that was the right way to go. At least I think it is. We'll see. I think parenting is all trial and error.

That's all it is, trial and error. I tell people all the time, it ain't no perfect way to be a parent. You know what I'm saying? You gotta figure it out as you go.

Absolutely, man. But take me on your journey, man. You went to Chaminade Prep, home of David Lee, home of Brad Bill, and then you come through there at, you know, a school that had already put out two All-Stars and you're coming through there. What was it like just going to Chaminade? Like, I know you could have went to a public school in St. Louis, but you decided to go to Chaminade, which seems to be working for the— for the guys from St. Louis. What was behind that decision for you?

I ain't had no choice. That was my mom from the, from middle, from elementary school. My mom was like, "You going to an all-boy Catholic school. Like, you don't need no distractions from 8 to 5 every day. Like, it's all about books and basketball." So yeah, I wanted to go to public school with all the, you know, people in the neighborhood and all my friends from AAU, but I like, I just knew that wasn't the thing. I knew I was going to one of these. We got like, it's like 5 private schools in St. Louis that are all boy. We all in the same conference. But it was just perfect timing because, you know, Brad's mom was my mom's volleyball coach in high school. And Brad grew up, we grew up in the same neighborhood. He was like 4 minutes from my crib. So I went to Chaminade in middle school and my first year was his last year. So when I was in 7th grade, Draymond Green was in 12th grade. So that was really the, you know, the stamp. Just, I had a perfect role model, a perfect, like, visualization every day of who I wanted, like, where I wanted to go, where I wanted to be. And, like, he was living proof, you know? So getting to see him every day in the classroom, working out after practice, and him dropping me off from school every day and going to the games and, you know, seeing him put on the show. It was like, it was the perfect scenario for me. 'Cause this was like, I want to get to where he's getting to and I get to see, you know, his everyday routine up close. So, you know, I'm forever thankful for that, for being in that position.

That's incredible. And as you went through high school, so, well, you go from 7th grade to 8th grade, Brad goes on to Florida, spent 1 year at Florida, then he goes to the league. Once he left Chaminade, did y'all relationship continue to grow or was there like a gap where y'all kind of fell outta contact or has that always been a constant of someone that's always been directing you?

Oh no, that's, he like, that's like Brad is the big brother, you know, that I didn't have, right? Even when he got to the league, I remember on, it was either my freshman or sophomore year, like one of my spring breaks, Brad was like, he just texted me and he like, "Yo, like ask your mom, can you come up here and just like come chill with me and come to a couple games?" I'm like, "All right, man, I'm out." Like I went up to DC, I spent like a week with him and his brothers, went to a couple games. But like even in the summertime, Brad would come home and it would be times where he would pull up in front of my crib 9 o'clock in the morning, he called me. I'm asleep. He called me like, "Yo, come on, bro, I'm outside." I'm like, "Damn, all right, let me get in the shower." And I would just like, I would get in the car with him. We go get something to eat, we go work out, and then we go to his crib, play the game, chill, and then we go work out again and he take me home. Like, it's plenty of times, summers where I like would spend the whole day with him and like, just, we'd just be out. But it was always just like, he always was telling me that, you know, he wanted to do for me what, you know, nobody did for him. And, you know, from that point on, I've always had, you know, number one love and the most respect because, you know, he didn't have to do that, right?

Mm-hmm.

He, from day one, he always told me he wanted me to be better than him. You know, he wanted me, He wanted to show me, you know, the ins and outs, the things that he wished he knew. And, you know, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Brad. So yeah, we, as I got older, we got much closer. Brad was the first person to take me to the club. [LAUGHTER] And I was like, when I was like 16. And yeah, he took me to the club a couple of times. My mama found out, she cussed him out, but it was all love after that. Like, that's the kind of relationship that we had. My mom cussed Brad out in front of my house one day. Like, "You got my son at the club. He still got stuff to lose, blah, blah, blah." But it was just the principle. Like, she wasn't really mad, but she couldn't act like she was cool with it. But yeah, Brad was the first person to take me to the club. Like, yeah, we did it all.

That's incredible, man, to have someone like that, that you've known from that age to continue to show you the way. You make sure you give that back to somebody, bro. 'Cause that's important. That's how— we continue to grow our game. That's how we continue to grow as young men, most importantly, you know what I'm saying? As professionals. So you make sure you get that game to the next guy. 'Cause that's how this cycle go, man. And I think that's such a beautiful thing. And him saying like, I want you to be better than me. As good as Brad is, you are him at 6'10", which already kind of puts you in a different, —like, not a different category, 'cause y'all both All-Stars, y'all both elite, like, y'all both score with the best of them. But being 6'10" and being able to do that, that automatically just puts you in a different place, because there's only KD at 6'10" who can do that. Maybe KD.

Mm-hmm.

And I actually got— And I had a great opportunity to see that this summer. And what I told everybody, and I'm jumping all over the place a little bit, but this just feels so natural. So we'll rewind a little bit. But what I told everybody was, on our team, it was KD team, like USA team. It was KD team, as it should have been. He was the one with the most experience, KD. Mm-hmm. But it felt like to me, and I wanna hear your thoughts. It felt like to me you were being primed for it to be your team this next go around. And maybe KD come back, maybe KD don't. But I felt like he was priming you like, "Hey JT, go give me a bucket, man. Hey, it's your turn. Come on now, go get me some buckets." And hearing the conversation, but also seeing how everyone else on our team, when it wasn't KD, everybody was turning to you. And you had games where you took over. So I like, how are you, did you feel that? Are you seeing that? Is that the goal? Like what is your goals moving forward with USA?

Yeah. No, I think you spot on. I think that played a huge part in my decision. I think I remember you calling me in the summertime and like telling me like, bro, I remember, I'll never forget. You said, bro, forget all this stuff about rest. Like, we can rest when we retire. And I don't know, like, I'm like, yeah, but I'm only 23, 24. Like, I got the rest of my life after basketball to rest and do whatever I want. And like, this is, you know, nothing is promised. Like, this is a special opportunity. So after talking to you, and then the next thing was like, well, shit, K on the team. And I think for me, Like, I remember being 15 years old and going to K Camp in D.C. and, like, how excited I was to be there. And fast forward, you know, playing against him in the playoffs last year, and then now being on the same team as him and, like, getting to see how somebody that, like, I looked up to at one point, like, how he go about his routine, how he work, how he, you know, just— [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] think and see the game, you know, on a personal level. Like, we gonna be on the same team. That was, for me, it was like, all right, yeah, I'm going. And I remember being out there in Vegas and like, I remember the first day we scrimmaged and I remember we played the select team and they kicked our ass the first day. We was outta shape. We was outta shape. We wasn't used to playing with each other. But I remember specifically coming down on the wing, somebody kicked me the ball and, on the Celtics, I would've shot it. And it was like a halfway, like I could've shot it. And I just remember K was to the next, it was to the right of me and I passed it to him. And I remember he got mad at me. He was like, he was like, "Yo, don't look for me." Like, he was like, "Be yourself. I need you to kill." And I was like, "Damn." Like, that was the first time I was like, "Like, nah." Like, he want me to hoop too.

Mm-hmm.

Like, don't look at it like that's KD. Like, no, we on the same team. He need me to do me on this team.

Absolutely.

And no, like, I mean, you right. Like, it definitely started to feel like that. Like, obviously we all knew it was his team, but just somebody like that in the middle of a game, you know, he come down the court, he telling me to post up, to give me the ball to go score, was like, all right, like, yeah, I'm working towards getting to that level. Like, I'm earning the respect of somebody like that. And ultimately, like, that was obviously us winning it, but like, that was one of my favorite parts of, you know, being on the team. Just kind of like that moment, if I, you know, if that makes sense.

No, absolutely. And I actually remember the exact moment that you're talking about when you swung the ball to him. You like, "Hey, man, come on now." I remember that exact moment, but I thought it was great because like I said, the reality is, is, Like, you should, it's on you to carry USA for at least the next 2 cycles. You know, like that's your thing moving forward. And like I said, even if KD come back on the next cycle for Paris, that's almost him just like coming to pass the baton. Like, yeah, I still got it and I'm still cold and I love to hoop.

Right.

But like, I'm really coming to pass the baton. And so I think, Like, that should be your mindset. And what also should be your mindset is regardless of whatever happens this summer, I mean, or this season, this playoffs, you should be dedicated to having the absolute best summer of your life. And you already work, but there's more to be done because Your only goal next year, going into next year, should be like, "No, I'm 100% gonna be the MVP of the NBA next year." You should be the MVP of the NBA next year with your skill level, with like, you've been doing this now. See, a lot of people don't realize how young you are. I didn't either until we got to Olympics and I'm just sitting there and we all kicking it. And then some of the questions you was asking, I'm like, "Man." Yeah. Like, dog, he a baby, but you like, you've been doing it at this level since you came into the league your rookie year, which is now what, 5 years? And so people tend to think like, oh no, like you just one of us. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh yeah. Like, no, he just one of us. Because of the level you've been doing it at. But the reality is, is you still can't replace that experience. You still can't replace those years of gain and wisdom. And so, It was super refreshing to me when you start asking some of the questions you was asking. I'm like, oh shit. Like, this is fun for me. Like being able to share something. Like it's one thing to share game, get game to a young dude. Like that's all great. It's fun. I love to do it. It's a totally different thing to give some game to a star. Like to a young star. That's a totally different thing. And so for me, I'm like, Yeah. Oh man, like this is gonna be fun. Like I enjoy that. And so I think that should be your number one goal going into next year, bro. Like you should be thinking nothing else.

Nah, I mean, you definitely right. And I think this is gonna be my first kind of full summer since I've been in the league. I played on the FIBA team in 2019. I got injured. 2020 come around and COVID hit.

Mm-hmm.

And that was the shortest off-season, you know, NBA history. And then last year, you know, we was in training camp with USA while the season was still going on. So it was just, it's always been something. So I'm definitely, you know, after this season, you know, handle this season first. But this off-season coming up is something I'm really, really looking forward to because, You right, like, and I think the Olympics had a lot to do with that. You know, coming off the Olympics and winning a gold medal and being with you guys, like the best players in the world, like as competitive as the games were, but just going through practice when we splitting the teams up, scrimmaging each other 5 on 5, like there's nothing better than that in the summertime at that point. So just coming into the NBA, like I've been competing against and with the best players in the league all summer. And then carrying that into the season is like, that honestly is the best way to prepare, you know, for a season.

100%. You know what's crazy is one of the main reasons I wanted to do Olympics last year was so I could stay in great shape leaving out of last season to come into this season. Because in my mind, I'm like, yo, I want to get back to an All-Star level. And I know the key to me playing at an all-star level is simply being in shape. And so I'm like, the Olympics will help me roll right into September in shape and I can hit the ground running into the season. And so I definitely feel where you coming from. And like, even for me going back to the select team days, when I played on the select team, like, I'm like, yo, I got better this week. Like, I'm playing against these guys, I got better. You know what I'm saying? And so I think that's a— For sure. I think that's a really big deal. And speaking of our USA team, your now head coach, Ime Udoka, who he was one of our assistant coaches with the USA team, got to spend a lot of time around him, see what type of dude he is, kind of see his coaching style. And I thought it was great. And one observation that I've had in watching your game is, and y'all play, But in your game, and I feel like you've taken a next step in that, it's like, it's less sidestep 3. You know what I'm saying? It's less like, you're a tough shot taker and a tough shot maker, you know? But I think there's a time and a place to take tough shots. Like there's a time when you gotta take tough shots. And then there's a time when you're that good that you go get the shot that you want. You know what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like you're finding that balance. And I was wondering like, is that something that Ime and A. Miles, I know you talk a lot to A. Miles, is somebody who helped me a lot over the last couple years, just understanding the game. What impact has those guys had in coming in on your game individually?

Yeah, I think it's a combination of a couple things. Obviously, you know, the new staff and, you know, Ime being a new coach, just like a different, sort of philosophy, right? You know, people always ask me, you know, what's the difference between Brad and Emei? I mean, they just different people. Like, they both great basketball minds, but you know, they just kind of approach things differently. And that doesn't make one better than the other. But you know, I appreciate them both. I had Brad my first 4 years and, you know, I'm thankful for him a lot. And now, you know, being with Emei. And also I think I'm just, I'm still young, but I'm getting older at the same time. So the game is slowing down and I'm learning to like read the game a lot differently than I did 2 years ago, right? It's slowing down for me, knowing when to like, you know, exert more energy and when to save energy and things like that. Things I just didn't think about, you know, my second and third or even my fourth year, right? So I think having a new staff sometimes is just having a new voice. Can be helpful. But, you know, I love having Ime. Obviously we started off, it was rocky, you know, up and down. And I mean, I think that's just part of it. Obviously with expectations, people just want you to adjust like that. And the reality is this is, you know, things take time, right? But, you know, one thing I've appreciated is that he's definitely coached me. You know, coached me hard and held me accountable and held everyone accountable. And I think that's something that we definitely needed. And we got like an open door policy. Everybody can voice their opinion, you know, regardless, you know, top man or the 15th man, you come in and work every day. You got something to say, you can say it. And I think that's definitely made us better, you know, these last 2 and a half months. Draymond Green.

Nah, that's incredible. I mean, to see where y'all team has gone from even like when we played y'all in Boston, I think it was in December. And then when we just played y'all a week and a half ago, totally different team. And I think it all starts on the defensive end, which like, you know when a coach is good, when the coach, you can judge a coach off their team defense. If a team can't defend, look no further than the coaching staff. Like, coaches teach defense and it's a sign of accountability and all, it just everything that it's about, it's a sign of your team's toughness, to your mental focus. Like, that's a coach's thing. And I think where y'all defense is and, but, But more importantly, not even so much of how good it's been, but the philosophy of it. Like, that took some figuring out. Like, to figure out, we gonna start Rob and Al next to each other. This how we gonna guard. We gonna switch 1 through 5 or switch 1 through 4. Y'all switching 1 through 5 most of the time. And then we're forcing everything to Rob at the rim.

Mm-hmm.

And like, guys are overextending, guys are pressing up. And literally forcing you right into him and he cleaning up all mistakes at the rim. Like, to get to that philosophy, it takes some twisting and turning. Like, y'all switched lineups a couple times. Like, you know, it takes some stuff to get there. And I think that's a— like I said, I think that's a big coaching thing and a move that they made that has changed y'all season.

No, you absolutely right. And it did. Like, We wasn't used to that at first. Like, you know, I'll be the first one to say I was a little hesitant 'cause I had only known one way for 4 years. And I would, you know, not last year, but my first 3 years, you know, we was always a top 5 defense. We wasn't this good, but I just was so accustomed to doing things a certain way. And I think part of growing is being open to change. And that's something that I've, definitely learned this season. And you know, it was not perfect at first, but I think once we really bought in and once we got healthy and obviously it's been working. And I think a part of it is like, it definitely is coaching. But I think, you know, when you look at the teams that got the best defenses, like they got guys on their team that like, they give, we cuss on here? Absolutely. Like guys that like give a fuck on defense. And like, you know, and like the teams that got the best even, like that's something that we, you know, hold everybody accountable from the first man to the last man. It was like, all right, we might not be like the best offensive team, but like we gonna hang our hat on this defensive end and everybody gotta pull their weight. And 'cause if Al and Year 15 is gonna be switching, on the guards and pressuring and things like that. And there's no excuse for, you know, somebody in their second or third year. And, you know, that's something that we just relay to everybody.

Nah, it's incredible. And I think, including me, I think when y'all brought Al back, everybody's like, what the hell? Like, what? Like that, it made no sense. And then until you realize like, JT still super young. JB still super young. Marcus Smart, he got a little more experience, but he's still young. Rob still young. And when you put it in those terms, especially for me, who's now in year 10 and understand like Smart right now is in a position I was in like a couple years ago where we sucked, but He's kind of right in that space of like, not quite like vet, vet, but almost there. You know? And so bringing Al back, I now, when I think about it, I'm like, yeah, it makes total sense because y'all needed that vet to look to. You know what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm.

And so I see that now, but, and then also the effect that he's, he and things that he teach Robert Williams as well. And so I think that's huge. But in speaking to Robert Williams, having an incredible year, having a Defensive Player of the Year caliber type of season, no one talks about his offense. He's one of the best passing big men in the league right now. And—

Hands down.

I take that with a grain of salt because Jokic pass better than all the point guards. We not putting nobody in Joker category. He a little different than everybody. But— For sure. So we gonna just count Joker as a point guard. We not talking about Joker, but just like big man, big man who are like legit big man, don't have the ball all the time. Robert Williams is one of the best passing big men that I've seen, and no one talks about it. And I think that's a huge loss for y'all. Like what can y'all do to fill that role? Because there's not one guy that can do what he do to bring to that team.

Man, man, listen, first of all, feel terrible for Rob. Just seeing him the first day he came in and how hard he's worked and the strides that he's made to be where he's at. And it's like, he's just barely like scratching the surface of like where he can get to. Like this is like his first full year, like, playing, starting, like being a core part of our team and seeing where it's taken us. So I feel terrible for him 'cause I just know that his confidence was at an all-time high. He was like really feeling good about himself. And I mean, guys like him, it's not, like you said, it's not many guys like him that pass as well as he do. Extreme lob threat on offense.

Oh my goodness.

Don't need, don't, like he don't need the ball and you know, the best defender on our team. So like, you don't, you can't replace a guy like that when, you know, when he go down with an injury. But I think, you know, as cliché as it sound, it's just like next man up mentality. We gotta figure it out. It's 5 games left. We going into the playoffs, you know. You know, speedy recovery for him. You know, I told him take his time. Don't, you know, when you feel 100%, you know, then come back. But, You know, we just gotta try to hold it down until he does. 'Cause we ain't know, it's not, we don't have a guy on our team like, so everybody else just gotta do more and step up. But you know, he was having an unbelievable season.

Absolutely. I mean, speaking of him as a lobber, so check this out. When we played y'all in Boston, we played y'all in Boston, we going through shootaround. I had been watching a couple of y'all games before and I see this dude catch some crazy ass lobs. Speaking of which, this is the Draymond Green show, bro. You say whatever the hell you wanna say on here. That's how we fucking, we always rolling. So, but I see this dude catching these crazy ass lobs. I'm like, yo, this is wild. So I'm like rewinding back through it, like trying to figure out like, where was the coverage messed up at? And for those that don't understand, if Robert Williams is in a drop, Or I mean, if a big is in a drop on a pick and roll and Robert Williams is rolling, that big is taught. So the big, when I say a drop, that mean his guy is setting the screen and he's a little beneath him so the guard can't turn the corner. That's a drop. And most bigs, 5 men play in a drop in a pick and roll. And you're taught as the big man to never let the roller, which would be Robert Williams, get behind you. Once you let the roller get behind you, you're dead.

It's over with.

So we're in shootaround early before the game earlier that day, it was an 8 o'clock game in Boston. So we had a shootaround and I stopped the walkthrough and I'm like, fellas, listen, y'all have to understand if you are even with Robert Williams, he's going to dunk on you. He will catch the lob on your head. I just watched him catch 3 of them on AD in one game.

Mm-hmm.

If you're even with, and that's AD. If you're even, even with him, he's going to catch it on your head. So you gotta stay below him. And I'm like animated, I'm telling them and everybody like, "All right, got it." And I get in the pick and roll and I'm dropped. And I thought I was beneath him.

Mm-hmm.

And he still caught the lob on my head. And I'm like, to have that threat where you literally just put it up anywhere and he go get it.

Throw it.

People don't understand. And I love to hear your thoughts on it. To me, having a live threat, Robert Williams, JaVale McGee, for what they do for— DeAndre Aydin's a good one as well. What they do for your— for your floor spacing is equal to what a shooter does for your floor space because you can't lead a body. What are your thoughts on— you had an opportunity to play with someone like that on the daily. I've had that before in the past. What are your thoughts on having that live threat in the dunker? Because I think it's just as important as having a shooter that space the floor.

It just, it makes your offense so much more dynamic, right? You got somebody like me coming off the pick and roll, nobody ever is going under, right?

Yeah.

I wish, I wouldn't mind it, but they not going under. So you gotta chase me over the top. 'Cause if you go under, I'm stopping behind, I'm shooting a 3. So if you got somebody chasing me over the top, and like you said, most traditional bigs are in drop, you know, a lot more recently they corralling or up the touch. I gotta get out my hands, but, You got somebody chasing me over the top. So now I got the defender in jail, he behind me. So now you gotta make a decision. And you know, somebody as athletic as Rob, even when I get in trouble and I don't got nobody, you just throw it in the area. So now you wondering if you want to try to stop me from scoring or you don't want to give, 'cause most bigs don't want to give up the lob. They hate going in the film and giving up a lob. No big, once they made the score. That is a fact and we all know it.

Absolutely.

So it just, like you said, just like having a shooter just makes it so much more dynamic, especially as athletic as a Rob or like a JaVale McGee, somebody that long. You just throw it up and they go get it.

Absolutely, man. I think it's incredible. I wish him a speedy recovery as well. 'Cause I have an appreciation for the growth of y'all as a team. And you know, we've been dealing with a lot of injuries. You hate to see teams lose anything because of injuries. So definitely wish him a speedy recovery.

100%.

And still speaking of y'all team, for years there's been this whole notion of you and Jaylen Brown can't play together. Again, y'all are so young in y'all career. The fact that people wanna write it off already is kind of tough, but In the same token, it is— in the same token, it's also respect to y'all and what y'all have done. Because like I said, since y'all came into it, y'all been doing it at this level. And so for everybody in their mind, it's been more than 4 years, you know, because your rookie year, y'all went to the Eastern Conference Finals. You dunk on LeBron James, you know, like, Like, this your rookie year. So for everybody, they've now been seeing it for so long, in their mind it's like, that can't work, they need to move on. The reality is it hasn't had any time, any time to manifest itself into what it could possibly be. I am extremely happy to see it working because I have a, I have a huge amount of respect for Jaylen Brown, the player he is. I mean, the way he handle and shoot the ball now, like he work on his game. Like there's no other way to slice it. That guy, who he was 5 years ago at Cal, he, that guy work on his game. Like there's no other way to slice it. So I'm happy to see it working. But what was the key for you? And him blocking out all the noise and understanding that ultimately, bro, we got each other and people are gonna talk and they're saying this, but at such a young age, y'all having to go through that and work y'all way through that. What was the key for y'all to stick together and say like, nah, we gonna figure it out together?

Yeah, I think it's a lot to digest there. I think so, My first year was his second year. JB went, JB been in the conference finals 3 times. He went year before when I got there and then the bubble year and I've been twice. So we've had way more success than we haven't, you know, last year, you know, was the weirdest season in NBA history with COVID protocols. Oh, for sure. No fans, guys dealing with COVID no vaccine. Like it was the weirdest season. He'd get hurt. We was a 7 seed, we made the playoffs, you know, wasn't great. Started off rocky this year. So it was like a, it was like a rough year and a half. And you know, we didn't play great that time, but it is what it is. But we've had way more success together than we haven't. We, you know, we've made the playoffs every year. And I think in this league, what I've realized is everybody, you can't, everybody will say you can't win. Until you do, nobody can win a championship. Nobody can be the best player on the championship team until they do it.

Until you do it. Until you do it. Facts.

Like, and the narrative just like, that's just what it is. Like, Book, like he wasn't a winner until he, you know, he had some pieces around him and he went to the championship. Now he is like, no, we all know like how good he was. What he could do, he just, no knock to the guys on his team, they just weren't that good. So like, I think we can't figure it out until we win a championship. And then it's like, "All right, they can win." And I think that's just like the world that we live in. And once you understand like, that's just the business of what we do. And, you know, yeah, it seems like we've been together forever. It's been 5 years, but I just turned 24 and JB's only 25. Mm-hmm. Like what they say, you don't reach your prime till 28, 27, 28, 29. So like—

Shit, now it's like 31, 32.

Yeah, 30. So we can just say 30. So if you look at that point, like damn, we still like not as good as we gonna be. And for us, we are two of like the most competitive guys. I think one of the best things for my career and his is that we've been on the same team. And that we worked with each other, worked out, played one-on-one a million times. Like, I push him and he pushes me, and it's been— and it's a healthy competitiveness and environment between us. And like you said, the strides that he's made from his first year and to who he is now, he's made the All-Star Game last year. I was extremely happy for him just knowing how far he's come and like who the player he is now. Like, like you said, seeing what he does now, that only means that he worked on his game.

Mm-hmm.

That's all that that means. So, and I know that about him and I know like how bad JB wants to win aside from everything else. And like we trust each other enough and like I've been in enough close games, I've been in enough playoff series where I know like if I got number 7 on my team, I know, I like, I believe he gonna do whatever it take for us to help to win this game. Like we done won enough close games together, enough playoff series. Where like, I know push come to shove, he got my back and I got his. And that's fine if the whole world doesn't see that or know that, or like we not posting on Instagram with each other, hanging out every day or this and that. And like, that's fine. But we, like, as long as we know and the people in that locker room know that like, you know, we in this together, then I think it just make for, it's gonna make for a better story, you know? Yeah. Whenever we do hang that banner, it's like, no, we can, you know, we can do this together.

Absolutely. I think for a while, I always hoped that y'all can figure out who's the one and who's the two. And in my mind, no disrespect to JB, he's an incredible talent, great player. I think you are a generational talent. And so when you have a generational talent, that automatically makes you the number one. Dwyane Wade was a number 2 in Miami when LeBron went there.

Yeah.

And told LeBron, "I'm gonna be number 2, you go be number 1." Probably one of the greatest 2s. Kobe was a number 2 with Shaq. Like, being the number 2 is not a bad thing. You know, we live in this world that try to make it like it's a bad thing. Being number 2 is not a bad thing. And one thing you should understand, As a number 1, don't take your number 2 for granted because there's not many 2s that can go for 40 and just go get you 40 in a night. Like, there ain't many 2s that do that. Only the great teams got that. And so I think it's very important for you to understand, show him his love, give him his flowers, give that appreciation so he know he got that from you. Yeah. Because when you feel that, motherfuckers will go to war for you. You know what I'm saying? And that's ultimately when he know you'll go to war for him, he'll go to war for you. And that's ultimately how you win championships. Like, you know Marcus Smart will go to war for you. That's how you win championships.

For sure.

And I think it's very important for you as the number one to get them guys' love and support, even though they're older than you and you're younger. You just kind of get thrusted into that. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's important for you to fill out as your climb. I think I'm probably more excited about your climb to this MVP than you are. But that shit, it give me chills, man. I get excited about it just to see young guys doing well, man. Especially like I said, young guys that I have a relationship with. Man, I don't wanna hold you too long, but I got a couple more questions. And as you know, I could sit here and talk to you all day. But— You know, we've been speaking about your career and I'd be remiss. Also a guy who I had an opportunity to play with as well, won a gold medal with, legendary Coach K, who you had the opportunity to play with for at Duke. Obviously we know this is his last year. What was it that Coach K gave you? I think I saw something where he called you a punk-ass St. Louis kid or something like that. Yeah. Like what was it that Coach K gave to you in your year there? And beyond, because I know the relationship don't just stop once you leave that campus.

Man, that is my guy. And like you said, I still talk to Coach at least once, if not twice a month, ever since I left school. So that's something I really, you know, I'm proud about my decision of going to Duke, that like, that's something that I cherish, his relationship, and that like, that it didn't just stop once I walked out that door and left, you know, Durham. But man, no, he was, Coach was, that was, he was great for me. 'Cause I think initially when I first got to Duke, you know, I knew I was only going for one year, right? But we had like a mix of like, it was 6 incoming freshmen. We had some older guys on our team. And part of me, was like, people tell me all the time, they be like, "I don't know if you know how good you are." Like, people tell me that all the time. So my mentality walking in was like, "Man, I'm happy to be here." Like, I'm from St. Louis.

Yeah.

I never thought I would go to Duke University. Like, that, it never crossed my mind like that Coach K was gonna come to St. Louis and sit in my living room and like, we want you to come. So I was so happy to be there. And initially, like, there were times where I was just trying to like, I was just trying to be a part of the team. I was just trying to fit in. And there were a handful of times, and that was the last time, we was playing at Virginia and ACC game. You know, Virginia's always probably one of the better defensive teams in the country.

Absolutely.

But I'm, I think I'm making the right play. Like I'm catching it, I'm making the extra pass. I'm not really being aggressive. I may have had like 4 points, but I was like 2 for 3. I wasn't really shooting. I think we might've been up 2 or it's tied at halftime. I come in and I'm like, I'm feeling good about it. And I remember Coach K came in, he took, I done told this story many times. He took his jacket off and he threw that, he threw it, right at me. Like it hit my leg and my feet. And he was like, he just started snapping. He like, "You soft-ass St. Louis kid. I should have left you where I found you." He said, I didn't, he used to tell me all the time, "I didn't bring you here to be good." He said, "I need you to be special." And like anytime in the game, like the next day in film, if there was a shot where I, I could have shot it, he would always pause it and film. "You being soft." Wow. "You being soft. We don't need you to be soft. We need you to be you." And somebody that I respected so much and that had accomplished so much thought this highly of me and like never gave me the day off. Never like took it easy on me. Every single moment where I wasn't being aggressive, where I wasn't, doing what was best for the team, they would let me know. And I really like, I really appreciated that. And I carried that with me, you know, coming into the league.

That's incredible. Did you have the opportunity to make it back for that last game?

No, I did not. I did not. I wish I did. But I remember watching it. I watched it at the house. And part of me felt like, I seen every, like, you know, Grant Hill and Christian Laettner, JJ Redick, Jay Williams, you know, all these guys that like went there for 4 or 5 years, Carlos Boozer. And I'm watching and I'm like, all right, like I went to Duke, but they like really, they like really went to Duke. Like they spent 4 or 5 years there, I spent one. So like, I don't, like that might've been more for them. Like I might've felt a little bit outta place. I like, and I'm thinking that like, I might've felt a little outta place. Like damn, like they really, like they had 4 or 5 years and I only had 1. But I, and I, it was special seeing all those guys come for his last game. Obviously, you know, we lost, but we gonna redeem ourselves. This Saturday, Final Four. If you ain't, you got time, you should watch it. You know, we gonna be on TV.

Yeah, I'm gonna watch it, man. Send me your Cash App too, man. I owe you some money for them terrible, them terrible guys beating my Spartans, man. But I'm still pissed about that 'cause we should have won that game. Still pissed about that. But, Number one, as a 4-year guy, me being there 4 years and Miles being there 2 or Gary Harris being there 2, that don't make me more of a Spartan than them. Like, I'm a Spartan, they're a Spartan. We all went through the grind. At the end of the day, you stepped in, you had to go through there to get to where you was going. Whether it took you 1 year or whether it took you 4, it don't matter. That's a part of your grind. That's a part of your journey. You are just as entitled to that as them. Now, what I will tell you is, for me personally, guys that won a national championship, even if it's not Mateen Cleaves, you know what I'm saying? If it's not Magic Johnson, guys who won a national championship, like regardless, my jersey retired, regardless of any of that, you won a national championship, I didn't. Yeah. You're ahead of me, bro. Like, that's just what it is.

For sure.

You know what I'm saying?

For sure.

And so I can understand, like, the guys that won a national championship, but that don't just mean because they were there for 4 years. Nah, that's bullshit. You earned your keep just like they earned their keep. So understand that, man. Hey, but before we get outta here, man, and wrapping up, like, what's, what's, What's next? What's it for the Celtics? Where you see y'all going this year? What's like, what is the success this year for the Boston Celtics?

Oh man. I think I seen it on Twitter yesterday. We both lost last night, right? And I think—

Yep.

I remember they may have asked some of the similar questions, but I remember it, you know, they saying like, what can you take? Like, how do you feel? What can you gain from this loss? And I remember I said, I was like, "Ain't no moral victories. Like, you either win or you lose." And I seen something, you said like the same thing last night. So obviously you've been to the mountaintop a couple times. Like, you know what it takes to get there. And me playing for the Celtics, like, you win a championship or you don't.

Absolutely.

So that's like, that's it. That's it for it, you know? Hopefully, you know, we get Rod back, you know, when we can and stay healthy. You know, I'm excited, man. It is that time of the year. The playoffs is like, you know, there's nothing like the playoffs. And now it's, you know, everything back normal again. You know, so I'm looking forward to it. Obviously, these last, this last week and a half, these next, you know, 5 games, just trying to figure out, you know, who we going to play. But yeah, you know, we've been playing as well as anybody and, you know, we love our chances and as well as, you know, everybody probably in the playoffs. So, you know, our goal is just the same as y'all goal.

I don't think everybody in the playoffs love their chances, Champ.

Most people, I say most people.

Some of these dudes just happy to get to the playoffs, don't get it twisted.

I'm so happy not to be in that, the play-in game. That's what I'm grateful for.

Hey, it's been 2 years since I played in the playoffs, man. We played in the play-in game last year. It was fun. It was cool. But I need, like, that's when I played my best basketball. So I need that, bro. I appreciate you coming on, man. It's been an honor and a pleasure just coming on and sharing your journey. I enjoy these conversations and just listening and getting to, you know, hear others' journeys and, you know, how it may be similar to mine, how it may be different, you know, and everybody's journey, everybody got their own story, you know? So I appreciate you coming on and sharing yours with us. Year 5, already on your way to a Hall of Fame career. Now I remember I said that to you this summer when we were talking about USA, like, bro, This is all about trying to build Hall of Fame resumes, bro. And you doing that, man. Stay locked in, bruh. You should, if you don't get MVP next year, you weak as fuck. I appreciate you coming on the Draymond Green Show, my dawg.

My man, appreciate you.

Yes, sir.