In this episode of The Draymond Green Show, Draymond Green interviews Celtics star Jayson Tatum (with an introductory plug for Colin Cowherd’s The Volume). The conversation centers on the Celtics’ dramatic defensive improvement from December to the present. Both guests credit a shift in coaching philosophy—particularly the decision to start center Robert Williams alongside veteran Al Horford and to employ aggressive switching schemes (1‑through‑5, 1‑through‑4)—as the catalyst for the turnaround. They discuss how accountability, toughness, and a “defensive‑first” mindset were re‑instilled, requiring players to adapt from long‑standing habits. Tatum reflects on his own initial hesitation and how embracing change helped the team buy in. The dialogue highlights the veteran presence of Al Horford, who provides leadership and helps teach younger players like Williams. Robert Williams is praised not only for his Defensive Player of the Year‑caliber rim protection but also for his underrated passing and lob‑threat ability, which opponents struggle to contain. The conversation turns to Williams’ recent injury, the “next‑man‑up” mentality the Celtics must adopt for the final stretch of the regular season and the playoffs, and how the team plans to compensate for his absence. Throughout, Green emphasizes that defensive identity is a direct reflection of coaching quality, and both guests agree that the Celtics’ defensive resurgence is a product of strategic lineup changes, veteran guidance, and collective accountability.
Chapters
Hi, it's Colin Cowherd. I started The Volume to bring you some of the most authentic voices in sports. While you're here, make sure you hit subscribe. Thanks.
Nah, it's incredible. I mean, to see where y'all team has gone from even like when we played y'all in Boston, I think it was in December. And then when we just played y'all a week and a half ago, totally different team. And I think it all starts on the defensive end, which like, you know, when a coach is good, when the coach, you can judge a coach off their team defense. Like if a team can't defend, look no further than the coaching staff. Like coaches teach defense and—
Mm-hmm.
It's a sign of accountability and all, it just everything that it's about is a sign of your team's toughness, to your mental focus. Like, that's a coach's thing. And I think where y'all defense is and, but more importantly, not even so much of how good it's been, but the philosophy of it. Like, that took some figuring out. Like, to figure out we gonna start Rob and Al next to each other, This is how we gonna guard. We gonna switch 1 through 5 or switch 1 through 4. Y'all switching 1 through 5 most of the time. And then we're forcing everything to Rob at the rim. And like guys are overextending, guys are pressing up and literally forcing you right into him. And he cleaning up all mistakes at the rim.
Mm-hmm.
Like to get to that philosophy, it takes some twisting and turning. Like y'all switched lineups a couple times. You know, it takes some stuff to get there. And I think that's a, like I said, I think that's a big coaching thing and a move that they made that has changed our season.
No, you absolutely right. And it did, like, we wasn't used to that at first. Like, you know, I'll be the first one to say I was a little hesitant 'cause I had only known one way for 4 years. I would, you know, not my, not last year, but my first 3 years, you know, we was always a top 5 defense. We wasn't this good, but I just was so accustomed to doing things a certain way. And I think part of growing is being open to change. And that's something I've definitely learned this season. And, you know, it was not perfect at first, but I think once we really bought in and once we got healthy and— Draymond Green. Obviously it's been working. I think a part of it is like, it definitely is coaching, but I think, you know, when you look at the teams that got the best defenses, like they got guys on their team that like, they give— we cuss on here?
Absolutely.
Like, like guys that like give a fuck on defense and like, now you know, and like the teams that got the best defense, like that's something that we, you know, hold everybody accountable from the first man to the last man. It was like, all right, we might not be like the best offensive team, but like, we gonna hang our hat on this defensive end and everybody gotta pull their weight. And 'cause if Al in year 15 is gonna be switching on the guards and pressuring and things like that, then there's no excuse for, you know, somebody in their second or third year. And you know, that's something that we just relay to everybody.
Nah, it's incredible. And I think, including me, I think when y'all brought Al back, everybody's like, what the hell? Like, what? Like that, it made no sense. And then until you realize like, JT still super young, JB still super young, Marcus Smart, he got a little more experience, but he's still young. Rob still young. And when you put it in those terms, especially for me who's now in year 10 and understand like Smart right now is in a position I was in like a couple years ago where we sucked, but he's kind of right in that space of like, not quite like vet, vet, but almost there. You know?
Mm-hmm.
And so bringing Al back, I now, when I think about it, I'm like, yeah, it makes total sense. Because y'all needed that vet to look to, you know what I'm saying? And so I see that now, but, and then also the fact that he's, he and things that he teach Robert Williams as well. And so I think that's huge. But in speaking of Robert Williams, having an incredible year, having a Defensive Player of the Year caliber type of season.
Mm-hmm.
No one talks about his offense. He's one of the best, passing big men in the league right now.
And—
Hands down. I take that with a grain of salt because Jokic pass better than all the point guards. So we not putting nobody in Joker category. He a little different than everybody. But so we gonna just count Joker as a point guard. We not talking about Joker, but just like big men, big men who are like legit big men, don't have the ball all the time. Robert Williams is one of the best passing big men that I've seen and no one talks about it. And I think that's a huge loss for y'all. What, like, what can y'all do to fill that role? Because there's not one guy that can do what he do to bring to that team.
Man, man, listen, first of all, feel terrible for Rob. Just seeing him the first day he came in and how hard he's worked and the strides that he's made. To be where he's at. And it's like, he's just barely like scratching the surface of like where he can get to. Like, this is like his first full year, like playing, starting, like being a core part of our team and seeing where it's taken us. So I feel terrible for him 'cause I just know that his confidence was at an all-time high. He was like really feeling good about himself. And I mean, guys like him, it's not, like you said, it's not many guys like him that, pass as well as he do, extreme lob threat on offense. Oh my goodness. Don't need, don't like, he don't need the ball and you know, the best defender on our team. So like, you don't, you can't replace a guy like that when, you know, when he go down with injury. But I think, you know, as cliché as it sound, it's just like next man up mentality. We gotta figure it out. It's 5 games left. We're going into the playoffs, you know, speedy recovery for him. I told him, take his time. Don't, you know, when you feel 100%, then come back. But we just gotta try to hold it down until he does. 'Cause we ain't know, it's not, we don't have a guy on our team like, so everybody else just gotta do more and step up. But he was having an unbelievable season.
Absolutely. I mean, speaking of him as a lob threat, so check this out. When we played y'all in Boston, "We played y'all in Boston. We going through shootaround. I had been watching a couple of y'all games before, and I see this dude catch some crazy ass lobs." Speaking of which, this is the Draymond Green Show, bro. You say whatever the hell you wanna say on here. That's how we rocking. We always rolling. So, but I see this dude catching these crazy ass lobs. I'm like, "Yo, this is wild." So I'm like rewinding back through it. Trying to figure out like, where was the coverage messed up at? And for those that don't understand, if Robert Williams is in a drop, or I mean, if a big is in a drop on a pick and roll and Robert Williams is rolling, that big is taught. So the big, when I say a drop, that mean his guy is setting the screen and he's a little beneath him so the guard can't turn the corner. That's a drop. Mm-hmm. Most bigs, 5 men play in a drop in the pick and roll. And you're taught as the big man to never let the roller, which would be Robert Williams, get behind you. Once you let the roller get behind you, you're dead.
It's over with.
So we're in shootaround early before the game earlier that day. It was an 8 o'clock game in Boston. So we had a shootaround and I stopped the walkthrough and I'm like, fellas, listen, y'all have to understand, If you are even with Robert Williams, he's going to dunk on you. He will catch the lob on your head. I just watched him catch 3 of them on AD in one game. If you're even with— and that's AD. If you're even, even with him, he's going to catch it on your head. So you gotta stay below him. And I'm like animated. I'm telling them and everybody like, all right, got it. And I get in the pick and roll and I'm dropped. And I thought I was beneath him.
