Joel Embiid on Ben Simmons, MVP race and "Trust the Process" | The Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. Man, as I told y'all, this next guest is one of the guys I'm most excited to speak with. I think when we're done playing basketball, we'll probably have a show together.

Cool.

And it's gonna be the number one rated basketball show in the world. I'm just throwing that out there. Hopefully the big fella take the bait. Man, I'm extremely excited to welcome 5-time All-Star, MVP front-runner candidate this year, and was an MVP candidate last year, arguably could have been MVP last year as well. But really excited to welcome this guy, man. A guy who I be locking up, that outweighs me by 80 pounds. He's got me about 6 to 7 inches. Joel Embiid, welcome to the Draymond Green Show, my brother. I appreciate you coming on. How you doing? Good, good.

I'm good, I'm good. How you doing?

I can't complain, man. First game back, I'm feeling great, bro. I'm so excited to be back out there on the floor, man. I've never, you know, I've never been through, and I know you are someone that definitely understands it even more than I do. I've never really been through an injury that kept me out that long. Like I've been out, I was out for 11 weeks. Like I've had some injuries that I needed to rehab, but they were all over the summer. And so I've never been through an injury that kept me out that long in a season, man. It's brutal.

Yeah, it sucks. I mean, when you think about it, I missed my first, really my first 3 years because of injury. Obviously, you know, they also kept me out longer than, you know, he was supposed to, just because they wanted to make sure that I was right. But it sucks. Can you, I mean, for you, you said it was 11 weeks, for me, really 3 years, so.

Yeah.

Especially coming out of college. So you lose, you know, those first 3 years of experience that you can get in that time, and it does suck.

Yeah, nah, for sure, man. It gave me a totally different appreciation for what guys like yourself went through. What Zion Williamson is going through, what Klay Thompson went through. Like, it gave me such a deeper appreciation. Week 2, I'm like, "All right, man, like, this is crazy." Like, we in here 6 hours just in the weight room doing like core strength. Like, what are we doing, man? It's crazy, so.

At some point, it doesn't make sense because you going every single day. Obviously, you do a bunch of exercises every single day, but sometimes it's the same thing. And like, you just— It gets annoying. Like, I remember my first year, so I was doing rehab all the time, and then, you know, they had me, you know, they wanted me to sit on the bench and travel with the team and all that stuff. And that was at a time where, you know, we were losing a lot every single game. So like, I had to go through that, and, you know, having to go through you know, rehab every single day mentally, he's already tough. And then you gotta sit on the bench and watch the losing going into the game and knowing that you don't have, like, your team doesn't have a chance to win the game. So you probably gonna watch losses after losses. Like, he was like, mentally, you gotta be extremely strong.

Absolutely. I think for me, I hadn't sat on the bench most of the games I was out, maybe I sat on the bench one game, two games, the entire time that I missed, obviously, you know, we have a much better team. But I think what people don't realize when you're going through rehab, you're on a totally different schedule than the team.

Yeah.

To, you're there way earlier than them because you need to get your rehab in before they come in prepping for the game. Or prepping for practice or whatever it is. You're then there way later than them. And to then ask a guy like, yo, by the way, we want you to sit on the bench. That's your whole day gone.

Yeah, for sure.

And so I thought, like, for me, that was a big thing where they didn't make me sit on the bench. And it was good for me. But, and speaking of your injury and essentially missing the, bulk of your first 3 years. And then following those 3 years, you then go on and sign a 5-year, $148 million rookie extension. What did that tell you that the team was willing to bet on you like that? And you probably had played all the 50 games leading up to that.

Man, I remember when my agent at the time, I don't have an agent anymore, but my agent at the time was Leon Rose. He came up to me, he's like, "they wanna, you know, resign you. They wanna give you, you know, 5-year, $150 million or whatever that was." I was like, "What are you talking about? I haven't played basketball. Like, I played 31 games in 3 years and we talking about, you know, a max deal? And I only played 31 games?" And then he started going over it. He's like, "Yeah, but they wanna put, you know, all these protections and all that stuff. Like, this amount is guaranteed." I was like, "I don't care how much is guaranteed." I'm signing whatever because this is insane. Like they giving me $150 million after playing 31 games. I was like, yo, they gotta be crazy. And that was still at the point where like, really that was my 4th year or 5th year playing basketball. Really my—

Mm-hmm.

Really, but when I started playing in the NBA, that was really my 2nd year because I had missed those 3 years.

Mm-hmm.

So, You know, at that point, I never really believed in myself at that point where, like, you know, people always saw something different in me than I did. Like, at that point, I was like, "I'm not even that good. Like, I don't know what they're seeing in me, but, like, if they gonna give me this amount of money and I'm not from here, I'm from Cameroon, like, yeah, I gladly steal it because I don't know what's gonna happen in the future." Like, you know, I just missed 2 years and— You know, everybody's talking about, uh, he's never gonna play in the NBA, like he's already missed 2 years. They're talking about, you know, all the, you know, bus, uh, you know, in past history and all that stuff. You know, all these bad stories coming out, you know, about me, whether it was the weight and all that stuff. And it was at the wrong time too, because that was at the time where I had just lost my little brother when I had to go back to Cameroon. Oh, I'm sorry. So, you You know, all that stuff was like, it was crazy. And you know, when, you know, he came up to me, he's like, "Yeah, this is the deal. You know, they gonna guarantee this amount of money." I'm like, "Leon, I don't care. Like, whatever they guarantee, I'm taking it 'cause I don't know what's about to happen." Like, I'm like reading into like what all these people are saying about me. Like, I don't even believe in myself. I don't know how good I am and how good I'm gonna be. So I was like, "Yo, like," I'm not even, I don't even want to fight it. I was like, just do whatever you have to do.

That's incredible, man. I have a couple questions, follow-ups on a couple of things you just said. Number one, talk to me about not believing in yourself because from what we've seen is, and it's funny that you say that and I have interest in this because I too, You know, I am, I'm not bashful at all. Just like yourself. Like if I have something to say, I'm gonna say it like yourself. And I think one thing you exude confidence. Like when anyone see you, you exude like, we know like Joel, not only is Joel good, but Joel think he's gonna bust your ass. No matter who you are. But to then go on to say you didn't believe in yourself, like walk me through that journey for someone as confident as yourself to then lose confidence and say, like, give me anything. I don't believe in me. So give me whatever they're gonna give me, I'll take it.

So I'll take you to the timeline. So think about, so your whole life, you know, I went to, you know, obviously school. I was really good at school. I never really thought I'd, Yeah, I didn't start playing basketball until I was 16. So before that, I was playing, you know, soccer, I was playing volleyball. So, and I was actually the one, you know, 16 years old, I was about to actually go to France to try to become a professional volleyball player until Luke came back to, Luke Bamute, he came back to Cameroon and he had a camp at which you know, a camp I didn't even wanna go to because I had just started playing basketball like 3 months before that. So I was like, "Yo, I'm not good enough. Like, you know, these guys, they've been playing basketball their whole lives and there's no way I'm gonna get picked for his camp." And then I went over there and, you know, like I said, like people always saw, you know, something different than I saw in myself. And he ended up giving me that opportunity. So I get to— Mm-hmm. I get to the US, I went to Montverde Academy. That whole year, like, I was practicing with the JV team and the senior team, but I was playing JV. I don't know if you've seen the clip of me. I don't know if you look at it. That's a funny clip.

So that dude—

Oh, I've seen it. And then I just run out of bounds, like, taking out the rim. Like, I didn't even know where I was. That was on my first year in America. Like, that was like, you know, 7 months, you know, playing basketball. And, you know, I was playing JV and all that stuff. And I didn't really get the chance to really show what, you know, like what I could do, if I could even do anything, you know, my junior year. So I had to transfer to another school to basketball that was still in Florida. And then I get there, I got the opportunity, and then People started recruiting me. I get to Kansas. The first practice, it wasn't really a practice, it was like a scrimmage that we had. We had, you know, I was a freshman, we had Tariq Black.

Mm-hmm.

He was like a senior transfer from Memphis. You know, people were watching, the women's team was watching. He dunked on me so hard, I was like, "I'm not ready for this. Like, there's no way." So I go to Coach South's office, I'm like, Coach, like, I can't do this. Like, I need to redshirt. Like, and that was at the time I thought I was gonna be in college for like, you know, 5 years. And like, I really didn't think I had the potential to be in the NBA. 'Cause my whole goal coming to America was to use this basketball opportunity to try to get a degree and make something out of my life and go back home and, you know, make money and help my family and all that stuff. So I never— Mm-hmm. Believed that, you know, I had any chance in basketball or whatever. So I told him, and then he's like, "You kidding me? You're gonna be the number 1 pick in 2 years." And then I'm like, "Uh." I've always, like, before I got to college, I was always told that, you know, coaches lie all the time. And then I'm like, "This dude, he just lying. He just lying to my face. No way. I'm not believing whatever." Yeah. He's saying. So we go on, obviously I went to school with Wiggs. And one thing that people don't know is that I'm always gonna be so thankful for him because when we went to college, he had so much hype and so much attention. Like, it was crazy. Like, people were like, he's pretty good at what he does, but at that time they were like, he's the next LeBron James. Like, he's gonna be better than him. So like, he has so much hype and everybody just wanted to come watch him. Like scouts, like we always had so many scouts and I was, I guess I was kind of also using that opportunity to show them, you know, what I could do. So when they would come in the gym, like I would be randomly walking on, you know, a team, Draymond Green shake, and like show them that, yeah, I got it. And you know, they started seeing that in me. Mm-hmm. And then obviously you get to the league and, you know, the foot injury, you gotta miss a couple years. And like I mentioned, the stories are coming out that my brother died. So like, I really lost all the confidence because I'm like, I don't know what to do. Like, I even thought about like giving up on basketball because I, you know, my brother died and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. And, you know, but going back to your question is like, the first moment that I thought that I had a chance wasn't until I stepped on the basketball NBA floor for the first time, my third year against OKC. I stepped on the floor, you know, Steven Adams was guarding me and all that stuff. I scored a bucket, my first bucket, and then I was like, "Dang, this is easy." [LAUGHTER] We ended up losing the game, but like, that's where like the culture completely changed in Philly. Like all these losing years before me, there was so much excitement. People were like going crazy. They were like, "Oh, it's about to change." And then I was like, "Wow." Like the attention that I'm getting and, you know, what I was— I was like, I think I scored like 22 points in like 26 minutes my first game. I'm like—

Draymond Green.

I was on minimum restrictions the whole year, but I'm like, "Yo, this is easy. I can do this." And then that's where, like, you know, back in the day when I used to be going crazy on Twitter and all that stuff and talking to other guys, that's where I felt it because I'm like, "Yo, like, it's easy." And like, my personality is also that I like to talk. I like to talk trash. Like, I like to show that— Yeah. I'm better than, you know, everybody else. And, you know, that's why, you know, I was going crazy on Twitter. Whoever I was playing against, you know, whether it was talking trash or, you know, kicking their ass on the floor, like, it was fun. But that's where I really found out that, yeah, like, it's easy. I got a chance.

So for those of y'all out there, let me take you into the mind of these superstars, and it's filled with irrational confidence, which is what it ends up making these guys superstars. If y'all didn't hear him, he scored his first basket and then in his mind from the first basket on, it's been easy ever since. And the reality is it has been, but there's only a select few of guys in this league that can really reach that type of irrational confidence. And so you, when you go around the league, you see certain guys being called superstars and they're not. Like the reality is there aren't a bunch, there aren't more than 10 superstars in the NBA. Joel being one of them. And that's— 10 is probably a bit strong. And that term gets tossed around so loosely. But to take you guys in the mind of superstar, because I have had the opportunity to play with a few of them, it's like irrational confidence. Like—

Yeah.

I scored one time and then at that point it was easy to me. And so I just want to make sure y'all understand the mindset of these dudes and how insane it is. And that's why it's only a few of those guys. But, and going back, so you go through that entire journey, you go to the 76ers and I thought you did one of the most, you made one of the most genius moves when it came to Philadelphia as a city. And when it came to the 76ers as an organization. And all these teams has something that they go by, some slogan that they're kind of where their season is or where their team is that they're going to build on throughout the year. Ours has been strength in numbers and blah, blah, blah. And the 76ers was the process. Embrace the process. Embrace the process. You then took that name and made it your nickname, said, "I'm the Process." What made you do that? Because I thought that was genius. And to me, it felt like once you did that, everybody else in that city, everybody else in that fan base, everybody else in the organization was like, "Oh, there's our guy right there." I thought that was genius. What made you do that?

There was a couple things. The first thing was obviously I got drafted by Sam Hinkie. And you know, he's the reason why, you know, we were able to, whether it's draft me or have this many picks and all that stuff, you know. And then I got to the league and my second year, it was basically forced out by, I don't wanna say names, but you know, I'm outspoken, so I'll say it, by the NBA. I would say, I don't know, But I think that's what it was. And then, you know, that pissed me off because I felt like, yeah, sure, there was a lot of losing, which I wasn't part of because that was before I started playing. But I knew that eventually once I started playing, it was gonna change, which it did. So they basically forced him out, and I didn't like it. And then—

Mm-hmm.

During the time, the process didn't actually start with me, but I was like, you know what? Around that time, the league did not like the Pacers because it was a bunch losing. Like, they say it was like tanking, you know, they were losing on purpose, which in the NBA, like, no one loses on purpose. Like, you're not gonna put NBA players out there and tell them that, "Go lose a basketball game." Like, they're gonna go out and they're gonna do their best.

Mm-hmm.

Sometimes, most of the time, like if you're not talented enough in the NBA, you're gonna freaking lose if you're playing against more talented players. So you're not gonna put guys out there and tell them that you're gonna lose. So to me, they weren't losing on purpose. So I got pissed off because, you know, they ran Sam Mickey out of town and I knew that they didn't like the process, all the losing stuff. And then I was like, you know what? I'm gonna piss some people off. Like even around the team, like there was a bunch of people that didn't like that award. Like I remember, like I won't say names, but I used to get calls about like, "Can you please tell Draymond not to mention," you know, the process name. Like, "We trying to move on from it." And I was like, "All right, watch this." So that's why I started pushing the agenda about like, you know what, I'm gonna support my mans because he drafted me. He had, you know, coming out of college before I got drafted, like he believed in me. I was hurt, but he still believed in me. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna support him too. That's why I took on, you know, that whole process thing to try to, you know, try to keep what he was doing and really show them that, like, yeah, like we got power. Like it doesn't matter if they don't wanna talk about the process or if they wanna forget about it. Like players, you know, have a lot of power when they speak. And I started understanding that. That's why I was like, you know what? I'm gonna keep pushing that. And that's why it stuck.

Wow. That's incredible. And not surprising that you picked that to piss people off because that's what you do. Not surprising at all. But in speaking of the process and speaking of you pissing people off because that's what you do. And you even mentioning yourself, you were going crazy on Twitter. Like crazy. One of the things that you did to me that stood out the most, and like you were one of my favorite followers when you were going ape shit on Twitter and Instagram. And one of the things that I absolutely loved that you did was when you would do the location.

Yeah.

And the location was, whoever you had just dropped off that night.

Yeah.

And one that really stood out to me, 'cause people look at the NBA today and they tend to forget like how stuff has turned over. And at that time, Andre Drummond was a starting center in the NBA. He was an All-Star center in the NBA. Y'all were in the same conference and you're just now starting to make your name. And you put Andre Drummond's head, and then your caption was like, "I own real estate in your head for free," or something like that you said. And I'm like, "Yo, this dude is out of his mind." And then that kind of started this beef amongst you and Andre Drummond.

But by the way— I must say— By the way, it wasn't a beef. I was always, you know, we were on the same team and all that stuff. But I always kicked his ass. Like, he never had any chance. Like, never had any chance.

Hey, so check this though. When he decided that he was gonna come to y'all team, I was kinda like, huh? And then I saw the video, then I saw the video of him arriving at, the arena at the facility once he signed, and you kind of turned and shook him up and kind of went back towards— and I was just thinking to myself, like, what is going through his head right now? Is he really feeling like, I own this man right now? Like, you just came to back me up. What was going through your— I have to know. I need to know what was going through your head when he decided he was going to sign with y'all. I mean, the reality is it helped his career because he's revitalized his career. And backing you up and now going to Brooklyn and he's playing incredible basketball in Brooklyn. So it worked, but what were you thinking?

Well, I'll say this thing. So I think most of the time, like, you know, I talk trash or in the past when I used to like really go at it with, you know, anybody, whether it was Whiteside or Drummond or whoever, you know, to me, like, It's never been serious to the point where like, I don't hate anybody. I'm like, I'm doing this for fun. If people get their feelings hurt, that is on them. That has nothing to do with me. Anything that I say and anything that I do, I literally, I'm not kidding. So let's say whenever I'm about to send a tweet, before I even send the tweet, in my kitchen or my living room just dying because I know that people are gonna go crazy. Whether they're gonna take it seriously or whether they're gonna think that it's funny, I'm already so done. And then when I send the tweet, I'm like, yo, I'm like crying because I'm like, that's what people love or whatever. But at that time, like, I was like, when he signed with us, I was happy because I'm like, yo, like, when you look at— Yeah. You know, the previous years, like, you know, every single time that I went off the floor, we always lost leads. You look at Game 7 against Toronto when we lost that series, uh, I played, you know, 40— what, 46 minutes? Uh, 46 minutes. We were, what, +3 or whatever when I was on the floor, and then in the 2 minutes that I sat, we were -10. So like, to me, in my mind, I was like, when we signed him, I was like, I just need like a competing, like someone who's not gonna come off the— who's not gonna come on the floor and just lose leads. So I was like, you know, it fits, you know, what we need. And, you know, I was fine with it. But, you know, if you look at that, if you're looking at the video that you were talking about, it was really nothing. I was just, you know, walking out. I was lifting, doing my thing. And I greeted him. I said, you know, welcome to Philly. But then again, you know, in my mind, I could never forget, you know, the old days, you know, when I used to go out there. I remember posting that video of him dancing after I gave him like— That was after the game. So about that story, so we go— before that game, we go to Detroit. I had like— we lost that game, but I had like 30 and 10. And then he ended up getting ejected or whatever. But after the game, he was talking crazy. He's like, "Draymond, he's out of shape, he can't run." I'm like, "What are you talking about, bro?" "No, you just won, but I just had 30 on you and I'm out of shape? Watch what I'm about to do to you." So I'm like, the next meeting was a couple weeks later. I'm like, "You don't know what's coming." So in that next meeting, I had like 32 in the first half. I was going at him. He was in foul trouble. I was going, I was like, bro, I had 32 in the first half. I was like killing them. We was up by a lot and all that stuff. That's why I remember you texted me after the video that I posted. You were like, "Yo, you crazy." I'm crazy, yo. That's what I do. Like, I had a location, like, crazy, like, you know, like, I own a lot of real estate and all that stuff. But that's me. Like, for me, it's fun. Like, he's never—

Absolutely.

He's never, like, serious where to the point where I'm like, "I hate this man. Like, I don't want to be around this man." Like, I'm like, I get it. I never take it personal. I'm like, bro, he stays on the court and that's it. After we get off the court, if you wanna talk to me or whatever, unless you say something disrespectful to me, other than that, I will never be disrespectful to anybody, whether it's going overboard and all that stuff. So I know where to draw the line. But other than that, it's funny to me. I just go with the vibe, man. I just love it. Yeah.

That's incredible, man. I appreciate that about you 'cause I'm the same way. I talk a bunch of junk. It's never personal.

Nah, it was personal when you were talking to Paul Pierce. That was personal.

Nah, that actually was like right off the top of the dome, man. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you what happened. I'm gonna tell you what happened with that. So we're playing, and at that time, Doc is obviously, With the Clippers.

Yeah.

And we're playing and, you know, for us coming up, like, you know, the NBA go in waves. So the Clippers, when we were really young, the Clippers was supposed to be the next team out the West. You know, like they were the next young guys coming. And we like, hold on, we don't really believe in them. We got something to say about this. And so it kind of, you know, this rivalry started budding against two young teams, us against them, Steph against CP. And like at that time Blake is the guy, you know, like Blake is like, they trying, they hyping Blake.

Yeah, he's the next face of the league.

Exactly. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm clamping that. Like I ain't feeling that. And so then, you know, me and Blake had our situations. We had one where, We at half court, he grabbed my side, I elbowed him in the throat. I get kicked out the game. He go back in the game. Bogie got him a second tech, he got kicked out. And like all of this stuff keep happening every time we play them, right?

Yeah.

And so then Pierce come over to the team towards the end of his career, last 2 years I think, or whatever it was. And now me and Blake Griffin already got a thing. Like it's a thing.

Yeah.

And Pierce yells from the bench, "Go at him, BG. He too little. Go at him, BG. Too little. He can't guard you." And so I'm like, "Fuck outta here. Go back down the court, whatever." We come back down, they go at me again. "Go at him, BG. He can't guard you. Too small." So now I'm like, "Amp," right? And he like shot fake. I go flying trying to beat the shit and I fouled him. Number one, why am I going for a Blake Griffin pump fake? Blake shoot the ball now. But at that time Blake wasn't shooting the ball like that. That's why I'm like, why am I even going for Blake? So now I'm fuming 'cause I just picked up a foul on a pump fake I had no business going for. And I really went for this pump fake because you over there talking and like I'm trying to beat this shot so I can say something to you. Yeah. And I fouled and I got really pissed. Like, wow, you just made me foul him. So I'm walking back to the bench and he, I mean, I'm walking to the free throw line and he like, yeah, BG, I told you he can't guard you. And I'm like, all right, bro, I had enough. And that's why I'm like, hey bro, you chasing this farewell tour. Like, you not Kobe. Like, why are you doing this? You're not Kobe. If you retiring, if you retiring, go home. Like, ain't nobody doing no farewell tour for you and like, Making this whole, like Kobe different, bro. Like that's Kobe. Like D-Wade, that's D-Wade. Like Pierce, you had a great career, Hall of Fame career, but stop, bro. Like you ain't getting no tour. And so it just came right off the top of the dome. Like, bro, you think you Kobe? Like you ain't getting no farewell tour, shut up. And I was really fuming. But I tell you what, man, I never expected that when I said that to take on the life that it did.

Yeah.

Because there's a lot of young kids that remember Paul Pierce more for that moment than what Paul, who Paul Pierce really was. And the reality is, it's unfortunate.

He was a great player.

He was the truth. Like he didn't get that nickname by mistake. Like he was the truth. But a lot of young kids, a lot of people remember him for that moment. And I think it was such a big moment. Number one, the microphone caught it. But it was involving Kobe. And then, you know, like, God rest Kobe. So once Kobe passed away and like what happened to everybody, how it shook the world, that statement never rang more true. Like when Kobe passed away, everybody start blowing my Instagram up, like often, like Kobe anniversary and stuff. Like my Instagram blow up often from that moment. Like it never rang true. Because I mean, look at that. Like we all know the reaction, we all know how it affected all of us. And so the story never rang more true than after that.

One thing I didn't mention, Kobe is the reason why I started playing basketball.

Really?

Yes. I was watching, you know, that was about '14, and I was watching the finals, Lakers against Boston. —And they ended up winning that series. That's the first time I watched, you know, NBA basketball and all that stuff. And then I was like, Kobe was killing. I'm like, "Damn, I want to be like him. Like, this is crazy." And then, but at that time, my dad didn't want to let me play basketball because he thought it was too physical. Which nowadays it doesn't make sense because I thrive on being physical and showing my physicality against whoever I'm playing against.

Mm-hmm.

And then, He was like, "No, no, no." And then one of my uncles had to, you know, he had to start like trying to convince him to let me play basketball. And that's how I started watching the Lakers and Kobe. That's why I was such a big, you know, Kobe fan. And it hit me hard, you know, when that happened.

Absolutely, man. It was tragic for sure. But I wanna ask you this question. And I more so wanna ask you this question, you know, and me doing this media thing, one thing I hate about media is how they try to stir controversy. I think it's unnecessary. I think it's pathetic. But I wanna ask you a question about this situation for my own personal sake. And what I wanna ask you is, with the Ben situation. I feel like at times we get thrusted into this position of like, where you're almost defending the team.

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like some of that happened to you in the Ben Simmons situation. Because the reality is this, I think some of it happened in the Russ KD situation. We see it often. It's not like it was just you and Ben. It happens all the time. And the reality is I think we lose sight and ultimately, like with you and Ben, like you expressed your dismay with the situation. You expressed like, get him out of here then. Like you expressed all of that. But there was a point—

I never said that to get him out of there. I just didn't understand what was going on. Honestly, like I didn't understand like what happened and you know what led on to that whole situation. To this day, I don't understand. I mean, even, you know, when you look at— and I don't have any problems with him. And, you know, like I said, like obviously we didn't win a championship together, but you know, in the regular season, we were dominant. Every single season, 50-win seasons. Like I always believed that you know, we had a chance to win together. Like, I always believe it. Even to this day, I believe that we had a chance to win. And, you know, what we were able to accomplish— obviously winning matters the most, but I feel like, you know, we had a chance. And that's why I don't get— I don't understand, you know, what was going on on the scene. What caused, you know, him to want to leave? I understand, you know, his explanation, but you know, a lot of things don't make sense.

Do you think your press conference after game 7, was it? Do you think that had any effect on him?

I don't think it did. Because, but this is what, you know, you a member of the media and all that stuff, but this is what, You know, this is what you just mentioned, you know, that they always gonna try to pick up little stuff just to make them, you know, look right or just to cause like controversy and all that stuff. If you look at the whole press conference, they asked me a question, you know, "What happened?" You know, "What happened?" Like, "What caused this loss?" And then I literally mentioned a bunch of events that happened. I mentioned, you know, where it really started. And, you know, I was being honest. Like, we all— like, me and you, like, you know, I say what I have— what I want to say, and I'm not— I'm not gonna, you know, just hold myself just because I gotta, you know, make people feel better. And I feel like I didn't hurt anybody's feelings. You know, I mentioned— I was like, you know, obviously the pass-up— I didn't even mention that. I said, you know, we just— we miss an opportunity, and then And then I actually called out Matisse for missing the free throw. And then I was like, I didn't call out by his name. I was like, "We missed the free throw." And then I called out a bunch of events that happened after we had, you know, we fired a 3-point shooter. And then I turned, I mentioned me turning the ball over when we were down 4 at that point. They ended up scoring the fast break, which, you know, pushed the lead up to 6 points. I mentioned a bunch of other events where we made a mistake. I mentioned myself, but you know, the media is gonna be the media. They all—

Absolutely.

They all take, you know, that one part where I said we passed up, you know, a layup and we missed the free throw and all that. So which doesn't make sense. I didn't call out anybody specifically. I just listed a bunch of events that happened that led to us, 'cause at that point, the score was tight, or we were down by 1 at that point. When, you know, we missed the free throw. And then I called out a bunch of events that happened after, but they just had to pick, you know, that one part where it seemed like I was calling someone out when I wasn't really to. And I was talking about like the sequence of, you know, the events that happened.

For sure. And I think as a leader, one of the things that I do respect is you calling out yourself and saying, "Oh, I had too many turnovers." And especially that one down the stretch. Like, as a leader, you have to be able to do that. And I have the utmost respect for that because I think that's very important. And it's also very important that you can talk about your teammates as well. Like, we all struggle, we all go through it. It's never personal.

Like, even this year, like, you look at, you know, my press conference with Tyrese. Like, when he's not taking shots or he's missing shots or he's not taking water open shots, I'm like, yo, I'm calling him out. I'm like, you gotta be better. But like, as teammates, and because we're so close off the court, he understands that I want him to be better. Not just for me, but for the whole team and for himself. Because I understand, I don't— you know what it takes to win. I haven't won, but I feel like I have an idea of what it takes to win. You know, I've lost, you know, on a buzzer beater when we had a great team. And, you know, who knows? We could have had a chance to win a championship or play you guys in the finals that year. So, like, I feel like I have an idea of what it takes to win, but I haven't gotten there. So, like— and as you know, you can't win alone. I can't win one on five. Like, that's impossible. Like, I need my teammates' help. So, like, when I'm calling out, whether it's— Draymond Green. You know, Matisse or Tyrese, like they know that it's not personal. They just know that I just care about them and I want to win so bad that like, you know, I just want them to be better and they understand that. And you know, it's never personal.

No, 100%. And I must say something to you. We've had this conversation on the podcast before where I was speaking about winning and losing. And you don't know what it takes to win a championship because you haven't won a championship. You know what it takes to win. Because simply, just because you— it's hard to win a championship, man. Like, people don't realize all of the things that has to go right in order to win a championship. Like, it's not just about who got the most talent or who had the best year. It's so many things that have to go right. And so I would love to correct you here. And you know how to win. You've won since you've been healthy. You've won. You know how to win. Winning the championship is a different thing that takes a bunch of things to align in order for that thing to actually happen. And the guy who I was talking about was Chris Paul, because people say Chris Paul isn't a winner. Fuck outta here. Chris Paul is a winner. Chris Paul is one of the better winners in our game. Chris Paul just has not won a championship. But Chris Paul has won over and over and over and over and over again. And you've done the same thing. And you're still very young. So don't get caught up in that whole, I think I know what it take. You know what it take to win. You've done everything it does to takes to win. And the reality is this, y'all lost on one of the most impossible buzzer beaters in NBA history to go to the NBA Finals, if I'm not mistaken.

No, second one, second one.

To go to the Conference Finals.

Conference Finals.

And then y'all would have faced who? Milwaukee. That's a matchup that could go either way, you know what I'm saying? And that's also not the Milwaukee with Jrue Holiday. That's a totally different Milwaukee team. And so it's— the margin for error is this small. Like, it's not like— like, you really were right there. And then say you do get through Milwaukee, because that was the same Milwaukee team. And now you're playing a beat-down Golden State Warriors. Like, and so it's really that small. And I hope you don't get caught up in, I have not won a championship, I'm not winning. That's bullshit. It's hard to win a championship in this league. And so don't get caught up in that.

I understand that. I understand that because I've gotten to the second one, you know, so many times. And you know, like, and you gotta be so strong mentally because if you're not, I've gone to the second one, you get to like game 4, you like, "Damn, are you still?" Like, you still got like conference finals and finals. You got another couple games, like freaking 15 games that you gotta play or whatever. Like, I'm like, you gotta be mentally strong because the playoffs are draining. Even the second one that I've gotten, I'm like, Man, like if I don't keep doing, or if I don't take care of my body, like you not gonna make it.

Absolutely, absolutely. It's one of the most important things. And by the way, the whole taking care of your body thing, it take time to learn that.

Yeah. It took me a long time.

The way you take care of your body, it may be differently than what I need to take care of my body, right? It takes time to figure that, and time. Like it's all coming together for you, bro. And I can sit here and talk to you for another hour and I would love to, but in respect for your time, I'm gonna just ask a couple more questions and let you go. I know you got Draymond Green.

No, we got time.

Okay. But okay. And speaking of the Ben trade and with Brooklyn, y'all brought in James Harden. A James Harden who a lot of people has wrote off and said he's outta shape and he's, declined and he's no longer the James Harden that we once knew, only to see him reignite or come in with you guys and look just like the James Harden we all knew before. How is that? And I've seen that you said, "Man, I get more open shots than I've ever gotten." Like how has that partnership been working out for y'all? Where do you see y'all as far as duos in the NBA? Where do y'all rank?

Well, that's not on me to figure it out, you know, where we ranked and all that stuff. Like, at this point, like, really, like, I'm really just focused on, you know, finding ways to, you know, get better every single day. And then obviously since we had him, we added him, like, he just provides, you know, something that we really never had since I got to Philly. So that's a welcome sight. And he's been great. I think all of us, and especially him, is still trying to figure it out, you know, how to help everybody. But, you know, it's James Harden. I told him, like, I don't care what anybody says, like, just be yourself. Like, freaking go score the ball, be a playmaker. He's been a lot— he's been, you know, trying to playmake a lot. But at times, like, I also wanted to be aggressive. And look for his own shot and all that stuff. But I mean, from all the stories that you hear out there, he's completely different. I mean, fun guy to be around, positive energy always. Since he got here, you feel like, you know— And like you said, it's all about timing. And some situations are different than others. I don't know what happened over there, Maybe it wasn't the best situation. And I would imagine that he put a lot of thoughts into, you know, really making that decision because you leaving, you know, a team with freaking Kevin Durant. Like, you know—

Yeah.

Kevin Durant. Like, you play with him. You know how good he is. And, you know, I always say that, you know, like, I really believe in myself as far as, like, you know, talented and what I can do on the basketball floor. Especially skills when it comes to, you know, my size and all that stuff. Like, if there's one guy that I think, you know, for the size and, you know, what, you know, we're able to do on the floor, that's the one guy that I'm like, "Yeah, he's more talented than me," because the guy is 7 feet and he can do everything on the basketball court and even better than I can. So, but, you know, James has been great. I think we got a chance to— Draymond Green. You know, maybe meet you guys in, you know, in the Finals. But we got a long way to go. We not where we supposed to. We still working on a lot of things that we gotta correct, whether it's defensively and then offensively, trying to find, you know, trying to make sure that we all succeed and all that stuff. But ultimately, I think, you know, we got a couple games to really get on the same page and— Yeah.

No doubt. I think it's been beautiful to watch as a— just for me as a fan of basketball, like, to watch y'all two out there together and young Tyrese Maxey, who has—

Tyrese has been amazing.

Mm-hmm. And I feel like his growth— to me, he's kind of like a wild card for y'all. Like, you know, still really young, so it's hard to get a consistent 20-25 from a guy in his second year in the NBA. Like that's a very hard thing to do.

That's why—

To learn to do that night to night.

That's why he should be the most improved player this year. So—

I respect that. I respect that. But I mean, we'll see. But I like how it's coming together for y'all. And then obviously I think, you know, Doc is one of the better coaches in our league. And so I'm interested to see, and hopefully we will meet y'all in the finals. Because as you know, like nobody else in this league, I'm locking that shit up.

Ah yeah, ah yeah, whatever. That's why you need a double team every time we play, y'all.

That's crazy. I never asked for a double team. That's not even in my makeup.

I always find myself to be double every single time I play against you.

Hey, if you wanna duck in like Shaq, you get 2 feet in the paint, the double team gotta come, big fella. I mean, at that point, you gotta go for what you know. You know what I'm saying? But—

Well, if you say that you are that good of a defender, I mean, I don't know. I've never asked for a double team in my life, so—

Me either. That ain't me.

And I think I'm a pretty good defender, especially when I'm on, so—

I mean, when we put you in every pick and roll and they bring you up to blitz because you can't get it, you know, you just like blitz it 'cause you can't get up the floor, that's kind of like, asking for a double team and 6 feet on the other end.

Double step, Draymond Green.

Hey, you gonna double step?

Hold on, so you want me to play drop against Steph Curry?

No, you don't gotta be drop, but you ain't gotta blitz it.

I wasn't blitzing last time. I was just trying to make sure we got the ball out of his hands.

You can't make plays 'cause you can't shoot the basketball. Hey, but I make every other play. And I hope, and leave me open down the stretch, I'mma can your ass.

But would I rather make Stephen Curry or you beat us? I'll take you any single day.

Hey man, many has succumbed to that mindset, brother. Many has succumbed to that mindset. Hey, no, no, but check this out. I would be remiss if I didn't talk to you about the MVP conversation with you and Joker right up there at the top. I don't think there's a wrong answer, but how are you feeling about that? Where do you feel like you're at right now? And what do you think has to happen for you to close it out this year?

I mean, first of all, Jokic is amazing. Yes, he is. He's a monster. You not only play against him twice a year, but you get to play against him you know, 4 times a year or even more in the playoffs. That's a potential matchup for you guys. You know how good he is, and I know how good he is too because, you know, I'm also happy that big guys are dominating the league. When you look at whether it's me, him, Giannis, you know, it's good to see. Nothing against you guys, you Americans, but it's also good to see foreign people, you know, come in, you know, in America and just dominate you guys. The actual— all sports. So that's good to see. But he's a master. But I did a lot of, you know, campaigning for myself for MVP last year, which, you know, could have gone either way. Like, if I would have stayed healthy, it could have gone either way. But I was also happy that he won, you know. And, you know, this year, you know, I feel like, you know, I took my game to an even higher level than I did last year. And the knock on me last year was, you know, I didn't stay healthy for enough games, which, you know, they're probably gonna use that against you too when it comes to Defensive Player of the Year. Absolutely. But, you know, this year, what more can you ask? You know, I— production went higher, you know, I stayed healthy, and, you know, And we had a lot of drama. But you can say that about a lot of teams. But, you know, that whole situation was, it was extremely draining. It was, you know, it was tough to go through it, especially, you know, every single day being asked about the same questions, like the same subject all the time. Like, he was very annoying.

Mm-hmm.

But like I say, like, Everything just speaks for itself. Like you said, there is no right or wrong answer. He's a master. But I feel like I've also put myself in a position to where I deserve it. And it is my time. But like I said, it's up to you guys, you the media.

I don't got that kind of vote. I wish I did have that vote. I think I could possibly vote better than some other folks. Folks, but I ain't got that vote yet.

But I'm saying you made your point. It's up to you, you know, who deserves it or who's gonna win it. But, you know, winning a championship matters to me a lot. So if I were to not win it and win a championship, even better.

Absolutely.

But then again, you know, we all have egos. You wanna win a bunch of Defensive Player of the Year in your career, just like I wanna win a bunch of MVPs and Defensive Player of the Year in my career. At some point, like, you know, yeah, like it would be cool to do both too, especially at the same time.

Hey man, you ain't winning no Defensive Player of the Year blitzing Steph. They don't blitz with Rudy Gobert.

Hold up, hold up, hold up. That's why Steph always freaking kills him. [LAUGHTER] When you're not playing. 'Cause you cannot play drop against freaking Steph Curry. [LAUGHTER] And by the way, we had that conversation about, you know, how to figure it out who's a great defender and who's not. So like, to me, it's like, I don't know. I don't know. Who's the favorite to win Defensive Player of the Year this year?

I'm not sure. I stopped keeping up with it once I got hurt.

It should be Draymond Green. I agree.

Yeah. I mean—

I agree. So what would be your criteria to figure it out, you know, who wins the awards? Let's say Defensive Player of the Year. You gotta have what, a top 10 defense, right? At least?

I think you definitely have to have a top 10 defense for sure. Like—

Yeah.

It's like you can't win MVP and you got a bottom 5 offense.

Yeah.

I think you gotta have a top 10 defense.

Or lower than the 4th, 5th, or whatever.

Yeah. Like I think you gotta have a top 10 defense, but you also have to pass the eye test. Like just because you have a top 10 defense doesn't necessarily mean like, hey, this guy's a defensive player. Yeah, I think sometimes that gets skewed at times. But like I said in my press conference the other day, I think there's no debate through 34 games, which was what I had played before I got hurt. We were 28-6. Through 34 games played, I don't think there was any secret that I had to solidify.

Oh yeah, for sure. I agree with that.

Okay. To follow that, I don't see who solidified themselves since then. And so my thing is, If nobody solidified themselves in these 34 games since I went out, and I have had it solidified 34 games in, then how can I not still go on to be the Defensive Player of the Year? Because I didn't play enough games? Because I'm gonna play, I'm gonna end up playing 48 games, I think. I've seen people win it and play 50 and 51 and 52. So am I 2 games short? Of being able to win it. Like I think it's been proven, you know, what my defense does for a team. But if I win it this year, great.

If not, whatever. I know, but if I didn't win the MVP last year, missing 20 games, you can't win Defensive Player of the Year either.

That's true. But the only thing is where they going at you at is they're really counting against you, your prior history. Because missing 20 games is not like, I don't know, most guys only gonna play a max of 70 anyway.

Yeah, for sure.

And so missing 20 games is really not that much. I think what they was counting against you was your past history. So they could say, "Oh, but he's always hurt." Right? And you, the reality is you haven't been hurt like that in 5 years.

Yeah, I ain't been hurt.

I agree. But you know how it goes. These narratives, these narratives take on a life of their own. —and then that's just kind of what it is.

Yeah, but I do agree with you, but yeah, you definitely gotta pass the eye test, and obviously, you guys' defense is the freaking best in the league, so I guess it's not up to us, it's up to the voters.

That's a fact.

But to go to— I wanna mention something. To me, it's like, yo, I don't understand how you can be a Defensive Player of the Year if you don't carry at least top 5 or top 10 defensive team in the league. That doesn't— that would not— to me, that would not make sense. Uh, like, even me, like, I feel like I've gotten so good offensively that, you know, people forget about the defensive side. Like, I still— like, yeah, sure, like It's hard to like play, you know, freaking 36 minutes every night and do everything offensively and defensively. Like I'm gonna have my moments where, yeah, like we all are. We all have like our moments where like you gonna slip up here and there and all that stuff. But like even in those conversations, I hate like going, like when I started in the league, my first goal, I was like, I wanna win Defensive Player of the Year. That's what I want. I never cared about MVP and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. And I was always like, I gotta win Defensive Player of the Year, but I just hate that because my offensive game has, you know, gotten to another level, they just forget that, you know, I'm still right there. Like, you know, still carrying a top 10 defensive team, you know, averaging, you know, 1.1 steals or whatever, 1.5 blocks. Like, it's just annoying to me. But then again— Draymond Green. Gotta control what you can.

Absolutely.

If you win enough, then you're gonna get your respect. So it's all about winning.

Absolutely, man. Last question before I let you go. And also paying homage to one of the guys who come before you from your homeland, Hakeem Olajuwon. I know coming into the league, you would always say like, you wanted to pattern your game after Hakeem Olajuwon. No disrespect to the great Hakeem, the Dream, 'cause he is incredible. But I think with the way you've expanded your game, to just say it's Hakeem Olajuwon, I think is doing, it's not, to me it's not quite accurate. Now granted, you do have some Dream in you. You got the shake, the footwork, all, you know, the midi, all of the stuff that the Dream had. But like the way you push the ball in transition, the way you, the way you shooting the 3, the way you mixing the guy's step-back 3, that's different to me. And so I just wanted to ask, for you, in your mind, is it still Hakeem for you or has that expanded?

Man, it's expanded to everybody. I just, I'm a willing learner and I wanna learn everything. You know, to give you an example, My first 2 years in the playoffs, I really struggled because I was just a post player. It was easy to double me. I couldn't shoot off the dribble and all that stuff. So me and True Handler, my trainer, we were like, we gotta figure that out. Like, I can't be easily guarded. So we had to find ways out to like add something new to my game. That's when we started watching, you know, whether it was Kobe, like KD, you know, like Dirk and all that stuff. Like basically any legends that have, that has come to the game and that, you know, had whatever particular move that they added to the game that everybody uses. So we were like, that's what we worked on. We were like, I gotta be unpredictable. Like people can't know that I'm just gonna post up. I gotta be able to take the ball, push it in transition, do a hesitant pull-up like KD, or fadeaway like Kobe or MJ. So we just decided that we needed to expand the game, my game, and yeah. But to answer your question, yeah, at this point, like, it's not a camp. It's a bunch of, you know, every, like, a lot of superstars that have come into the game and all that stuff. And—

Draymond Green.

We had this conversation at All-Star, uh, obviously you know how I feel about, you know, old school players and, you know, how they're being rated and all that stuff. So I don't even want— you don't even want to get me started on that because I mean, I mean, can you, can you imagine, you know, the skill level that we have nowadays, or let's say me, doing that back in the freaking '60s? They would have probably put me in jail.

Absolutely.

Or I would have been the greatest player ever.

Absolutely.

That's what I'm saying. Like, it's crazy. And we had that conversation and sometimes you just, like, it just pisses me off.

No, hey man, if anybody get it, I get it. The skill level today, is like so far ahead of what it was back then, which is why I don't understand the whole NBA 75 list.

I don't understand it either. I mean, there was some names on it, I'm like, they put the highlight on it, I'm like, yo, I watched someone dribble like one-handed, I'm like, yo, like this is crazy. Like I'm way better than this. I don't know what you guys are saying yet. I don't have the resume yet, Like I don't have that, but when you talk about the skill level and like, if I'm actually better than a lot of those guys, then I don't know. Like, and if you don't agree, then we can't talk basketball because the skill level nowadays compared to, you know, back in the day, I don't know. They would've probably shot us back then if we were doing all this stuff.

Absolutely. It's crazy, man. Like, it's just, it's impossible that you could say some of those guys on that list are a part of the 75 best players to play in this. Like, come on, man. It's something off. Something is off with that list.

No disrespect. You know, I respect all the accomplishments and stuff, but you know, when—

Absolutely.

That's another conversation for another day, but there's a lot of names on that list where I'm like, I don't know what you guys talking about, but there's no way.

But stop it. Like, stop. Hey man, JoJo, brother, I in my heart believe you gonna be on the 100. I don't know how they gonna be able to deny you that. I don't know how they gonna be able to deny you. I hope so, man. We'll see.

You called me too. Hey, you got a resume, man.

Hey, I appreciate it, brother. But I will tell you this before we go. I'm also not sure how they gonna deny you MVP with, and like I said, that's no disrespect to Joker who is incredible. That's no disrespect to any other guys that's in the running. You know, DeMar has been incredible. Ja Morant has been incredible. Like I think there are guys who are definitely deserving to be in that conversation. But with what y'all team dealt with this year, for you to keep that team right up there, the 1 seed most of the year, to see like, for, I mean, for you to do that, missing an All-Star, like it wasn't like the trade happened right away and there was another All-Star there. You missed an All-Star for 60 games and to still carry that team the way you did with guys in and out of the lineup. I don't know what else you gotta do, my brother, but whatever you doing, man.

I don't know either, but you know, like you said, there's a lot of guys, you know, that can be mentioned. And you know, I have a lot of respect for all of them, especially Jokic, because I'm so happy that, you know, bigs are taking over and all that stuff, so.

European bigs, not to be mixed up with you American bigs. European bigs.

Whatever happens, happens. If I win, it great. You know, if he does, I mean, it's whatever, so.

All right, listen, listen, y'all. JoJo is going for the European bigs, for the African bigs, And for Giannis, the African descent European big, that's who we rolling with. My brother, I appreciate you coming on, man. As I said, I could do this for another 2 hours. Thank you so much for taking the time, bro. Really appreciate it.

Of course.