Kentavious Caldwell-Pope on wild NBA Bubble stories, LeBron James lessons on Lakers | Draymond Green

Welcome to the brand new Draymond Green Show YouTube channel. Hit subscribe so you don't miss out on any of our content. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. We are here at Resort World in Las Vegas for the NBA Summer League. I'm honored to have another champion here on the Draymond Green Show. Two-time world champion, my brother KCP. What's up, my dog?

What's up, my dog? What's up, man?

Welcome to the show, man. I appreciate you coming on. I always talk about like the resume you gotta have to be a guest on the show. Like we don't just want anybody, like we want all-stars, we want champions, we want Hall of Famers, 'cause that's what the people want.

Yeah.

So I appreciate you coming on, my brother.

I appreciate you having me, my brother, man. I appreciate it.

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Absolutely. But I mean, let's get into it. Take me back growing up in Georgia country. What was it like for you growing up and to make it outta there? Like, was it AAU that got you out? Was it the high school? Like, what was it that got you out?

I would say AAU basketball for sure. That was the most exposure I had as far as on the basketball circuit. I probably maybe had one college coach to ever come see me at my high school, you know, to see me play. But yeah, AAU opened the doors up for me for sure.

Who was that coach?

I forget his name. Old coach from Alabama.

Okay.

But like, he was the first coach to ever come see me play. But after that, that's when I ended up seeing 3 coaches from Georgia, and that's when I, uh, like, I committed to Georgia, like, verbally, uh, because I wanted to stay home, close to home, and to have my family be able to travel to come see me not too far. So, like, Georgia was always, you know, was going to be home base for me, you know, even though I had, like, all the offers in the SEC, but I wanted to stay close to the crib.

Nah, I love that. Same for me. You know, we're going to Michigan State. Like I wanted to be close to the crib. And so that was a big thing for me. So you get one high school coach to come to your, one college coach to ever come to your high school, but you become a McDonald's All-American. Explain that to me. 'Cause I had way more high school coaches, I mean, college coaches come to my high school and I wasn't no McDonald's.

Your high school probably be triple, triple the size as mine. Like, but like I said, AAU opened them doors up for me, you know, where being on that basketball circuit, you know, doing what I do best, shooting the ball, just, you know, playing, playing basketball, having fun. That's when I started getting like a lot of eyes on me, you know, being able to like send out my highlights, you know, in high school for like, you know, coaches college coaches to see. I feel like I had most of the college coaches come see me play when I was playing AAU basketball. So like I said, that opened up the doors for me.

So I have a question, a very interesting one for me. We're like the same height. I'm a center. You too. For me, growing up in a small city, being the tallest guy, They just put you at center. Now it was a little different for me, which is why I got my guard skill from, because I played center defensively, but offensively I played point guard. And, but my uncle was the coach, so he taught me the game. He taught me, so I had all the guard skills, which is why I'm able to play the position the way I do now. But there's always this thing of when you're the tallest kid in the small city, everybody wanna make you a center. That clearly wasn't the case for you. Why was that?

I had a couple guys that was taller than me in high school so that I didn't have to play that position. Even though I did play all 5 positions in high school. But yeah, I had some guys that was, you know, 6'8", 6'9" playing high school with me.

At that small ass school.

At a small school, yeah. So like I got a chance to be able to just, you know, play my position and like it elevated my game. Just, you know, just learning every position I would say. And also just every day after school, you know, going to my hometown basketball court, you know, playing with older kids, you know, got to push me around, you know, stuff like that made me a little bit tougher, tougher. And it just, basketball just stuck with me, man. I just, it was something about the game that I love and it just shows.

Absolutely. And 8th pick to the Detroit Pistons, drafted by Joe Dumars, which is like a father figure to me.

Still talk to Joe.

We go way back there. I remember like, as soon as you got drafted. But just walk me through that experience going to the Pistons, which wasn't the organization then that it is now.

Yeah, true.

Talk me through that experience and like going to Detroit, coming from the South, going to the cold, snow.

I feel like that was the biggest adjustment for me, the snow. Like my first year there as a rookie, man, it snowed all the way into about May. So like, that was like my, The hardest adjustment, you know, being able to learn how to drive and that, you know, get to work, be safe. But I feel like it was tough for me the first 2 years. You know, I couldn't get my family out there. Like, my family wouldn't travel out there. Like, having good vets around me at the time, you know, got me through my first 2 years, you know, to understand the game. But my experience there, man, was great. I got a chance to like show more than I can do, 'cause I feel like they drafted me because of my defense potential, I would say. I don't think they knew what I could do offensively then. So I had an opportunity to like showcase that, and that what took my career off.

You said you had good vets. I always talk about the importance of vets in the locker room. I am a product of great vets. I had Jared Jack, Jermaine O'Neal, David Lee, Carl Andrew, David West. Like I had Andrew Bogut. I had great vets. And like now that's one of the things that I think is missing from the league. You look at some of these teams and like some of these teams' vets are in like year 4 or 5. It's like, yo, you not a vet. Not yet.

Nah, you need like scratch the surface of what a vet is for sure.

It's crazy, like, in year 5 of my career, I had won 2 championships. In year 7 of my career, by year 7, I had won 3 championships and played in 4 NBA Finals. Nobody in the Golden State Warriors organization was looking at me like I'm a vet.

Right.

And yet you got guys now who ain't got no rings.

Or nothing.

No All-Star appearances, no nothing, but they kind of walk around this league like they vets.

That's like, it's the era now. I came in a little, in 2013, my vet was, I had Chauncey Billups. I played with Chauncey.

Wow.

Played with Tayshaun Prince. I had an opportunity to be coached by Rasheed Wallace. So I also had a, chance to be around that Bad Boy era, you know, even though they was on their way out, you know, but still I got an opportunity to them being my vets. And then like I had Josh Smith as a vet, you know what I'm saying? That been through the league, the ups and downs, you know, like I had like a bunch of guys, Charlie Villanueva.

Yeah.

I had some good vet that taught me how to be a professional, how to stay in this league, you know, and just to be mentally strong.

So did Ben come back? Were you still there when Ben came back?

No, I wasn't there when Ben came back. When Ben came back, it was his, he was retiring. They was retiring his jersey. So I got the opportunity to see that as well. So like, and retiring Chauncey's jersey there. So I got an opportunity to see a lot of things and like be around a lot of great people. You know, like you said, Joe Dumars, man, he the one that drafted me. Put me in position to like be able to meet these guys and be a part of their family.

There was a story, famous story. You've been with Klutch Sports your entire career.

Yes.

There's a famous story about the contract that you turned down in Detroit. Number one, I don't know whether you turned the contract down or not. I would love to hear that from you. But what I do know is if you did turn the contract down, you've made all the money plus more.

Plus more.

Talk to me about that.

You know, me and Rich talk about it a lot. And now like that we here in my career now, we can laugh about it a little bit, but I didn't turn down that much money. You know, that money wasn't offered to me, but like what they were saying, but like, even if I did turn it down, like you said, you know, Rich believed in me. I believed in myself, you know, and what I can do. And I felt like at the time I deserved more than what they've offered me. So like me and my team, we made a decision where, all right, if I put in the work, he gonna get, he gonna handle the rest. So that's all that was said. Like I put in the work, you know, you know, and made all that money back and plus more. So like my work paid off, you know, as far as like me, everybody just might say I turned it down. Okay, cool. I turned it down, got it back, you know, took it. It didn't take long, but like we slow ground it, one year, two years, one year, you know, but we end up getting it all back.

Mm-hmm. I think one of the most interesting things, the part that people don't talk about, people always wanna talk about, your failures. They always wanna talk about where someone falls short. They always wanna talk about this guy didn't get that money. He turned this down. He turned that down. But the side they don't talk about is if you stay there, are you a two-time champion? Because you still got the money plus more. Yeah. Double at this point. But if you never go to the Lakers, if that never happens, you don't end up at the Lakers.

Yeah.

Do you end up a champion? So when you look back at that now, was the stress of waiting ultimately worth what came in the end?

Yeah. Like, 'cause I've had some, going through that process after Detroit, I had some stressful moments, you know, where it, It took me a year and then it brought me down, you know. So I believing in myself, believing in God, you know, having my wife, my support, you know, everybody around me, you know, like encourage me, you know, like you got this, your game shows, you know, everything, you know, just go out there and play your game. Don't worry about anything else. And I— I set my mind to that, you know, like do your job, you know, like don't let nobody outdo you and just play hard no matter what.

Was there ever a point in that where you started to doubt yourself or where you started to doubt Rich?

I wouldn't say I never had a doubt, but like I say it, I was impatient. I would say I wanted to come like as soon as possible, you know what I'm saying? That's all like he would tell you that like, that's always, he always would tell me, man, just be patient. No, it's gonna come, be patient. This is, this is just the job, the business, you know? So like that was just me being impatient, you know, and just doubting myself, you know, and like having a little bit doubt then, but just that's just dude and being impatient, you know, wanting it now, you know, instead of waiting on it. As I got older, I started to learn that patience, it helps me stay calm, stay peaceful. And I know my guy Rich, I know he got my back. I've been knowing him since I've been in this league.

Yeah, nah, Rich the best, man. From a contract negotiation standpoint, obviously. But it goes so much further than that. I don't think people understand that.

That's what I was just about to say. When we talk, we rarely talk about basketball.

Ever.

It's always like, why ain't he calling you? But like, that's him though. Like he knows like what he can do. Like, so it's not just like you said, it's just not about basketball.

Yeah.

You know? And he makes sure of that. Like, all right, don't worry about this thing. I got that. You know what I'm saying? We can talk about anything else. And I like, he don't help me with a lot of stuff, you know? So.

Yeah. Nah, I think, I always tell people like, man, I think what I appreciate most about Rich is he teach you, A, how you supposed to live your life.

Yeah, true.

So many guys get taken advantage of, so many guys don't see stuff coming. And I think he, A, teaches us how you supposed to live. B, one of the most impressive things I think Rich has ever done with me And like yourself, that's my brother. Like, he was in my wedding. Like, goes so much further than being an agent. But I think when I, you know, I also know how to separate the two. You know, I know 99.9% of our calls, I'm talking to my brother.

Yeah.

0.1%, I'm talking to my agent. And I know how to separate the two, but I think one of the things that stood out to me most, and I still say it to this day, I like, when I bought my first home and I was searching for homes in LA, this dude walked 10 houses with me. And I remember when I first found a home, I found a house in Bel Air that I thought was the house I was gonna buy. And man, me and Hazel was excited as shit. Like, look at this house, this is nice. Like Rich, Rich was outta town when we first saw it. He like, I'm back tomorrow. I land at this time. Schedule it for this time. We'll go see it right away. Soon as I land, I'll go straight from the airport to the house. Perfect. He land, we get to the house. We walk in, I'm excited as shit. Like I got the crib.

First house.

Woo! He walk in, he like, "Nope, nope, nope. This thing, nope. That thing, way too much of this here.

Nope.

Look at this marble right here." Yeah. We go in the backyard, it's like beautiful backyard, so it appears. But like if you actually go through it, some of the stone is mismatched. It's like they went to this stone yard and got what the stone that was left there cheapest. Went over to this stone yard, got the stone that was left there at the cheapest. Put it all together. And when he showed me, we walked through this house and he started pointing out all these things. We didn't even make it through the whole house. We got up to the master bathroom. He stopped in the master bathroom. He sat down and he said, "Listen, I'm not letting y'all buy this house." Yeah.

Oh man.

Because y'all will be looking for the next sucker to come buy this house from y'all. 'Cause he about to sucker y'all for this money right now. Then y'all gonna be looking for the next sucker to come buy this house for y'all. And for me, that was, and by the way, this is well into him being my agent, years into him being my agent. But that to me was like a level of detail, a level of care that like, you don't get that from agents.

You don't get that.

These agents not coming to walk a house. They don't care what house you buy.

They really don't even, just get one. That's what they saying. Like, that's what I said, man. I respect Rich so much, man. Like, 'cause he like, he helped me out with so much. Like I said, like, like few things with like, like being married young, you know what I'm saying? Even, you know, he's been through it, but like just helping me navigate that, you know? 'Cause like it's so much. He gave me that, that safe space, you know what I'm saying? To be able to talk to him about that, you know? And Like I said, like we talk about whatever it is. Like I said, 95% of the time is not basketball we talking about, you know? And it's just about life. Like, that's what I respect about him a lot, man. He just humble kid. Like even just, man, like reading his book, like, man, I felt like I was him.

Ah, fuck.

So like, it was crazy. I was like, man, I feel you. And when I read it, I was like, man, I did not know half of that about you.

Yeah.

You know, like he don't showcase it, you know what I'm saying? But like, I didn't know half of that about you.

I learned so much from reading that book.

Yeah, that's why, me too. Me too.

It's crazy. Nah, story, story's insane. So then you go from Detroit, kid from Georgia, country, moved to Detroit, that adjustment, and then LA. What was the adjustment like now going from Detroit to Los Angeles?— for the Lakers, by the way. Nobody's showing up to these games in Detroit. I noticed.

I wouldn't say that. Like when I was in Detroit now, playing at the Palace, we had a nice little crowd.

Sometimes.

Sometimes. I was like, the Palace is like historical, you know what I'm saying? Like the Bad Boy days era. So like we had some fans in there now.

It was a few fans in there. But they ain't the Laker fans.

True. There's a lot different from that. Like, 'cause, I said it after I won, you know, the championship, but like, it's love-hate relationship with the Lakers fans. You know, like, they love you regardless, you know what I'm saying? But like, if you doing bad or like you ain't playing up to your potential that they think you can play at, like they on you. Like they gonna let you know. And then you playing at your greatest, like, they with you, you know what I'm saying? I would say they with you regardless, but like they gonna let you know when you doing good, when you doing bad. And that's why I respect so much about their fans, you know? They hardcore, you know what I'm saying? They on you.

What, and how are they on you? Like, is that coming through social media? Is that like you walking down the streets of LA, they coming up?

I would say a little bit of both. I wouldn't say they like, they not so negative. Like when they see you in person, you know what I'm saying? Like more, you know, supportive, you know what I'm saying? Stuff like that, you know what I'm saying? In the heat of the moment, in the arena, I can see a little bit different there, like what they telling you, like, you know, pick it up, you know? I've had, you know what I'm saying, a little bit of both, you know, through social media, like in the arenas, you know, like to a point where they was, they was like commenting on wife, if my wife, pictures or like the pictures she posting saying shit about me. So it was a lot of stuff that was going on at one point when I was there.

You get to the Lakers, Lakers not very good. Think what, a year later, 2 years later, Bron comes.

Year later.

Year later.

Year later.

Y'all get Bron.

Yep.

Changes the outlook of the franchise at that point. Lakers had been struggling for a while, kind of toward on the end of Kobe's tenure.

Yep.

And to Kobe retiring, couple years, you get there, then Bron come. What was that like? Like that big of a force coming to the team, the media attention, which the media attention for the Lakers is already crazy.

Oh, crazy.

But then you get Bron there. Like what was that transition then like from going from playing with like all these young dudes and you kind of being the vet in the sense of what we were talking about.

Yeah, been that young vet they so-called.

Yeah, today.

Yeah, I was, I think I was, I was, I think the older two guys when I got there 2017 was, was I had Isaiah Thomas and Brooke Lopez and Corey Brewer. I was only 3 older guys and I was 24 at the time when I got there. Everybody else was like 19, 20, 21. It was fucking crazy.

Then Bron come in. How did it change everything? Did it change from day one in practice? Did it change just the games? It was also a growing process. I don't think y'all made the playoffs that first year.

No, it definitely was a growing process. 'Cause, you know, everybody, him adjusting, you know, to everybody and then everybody trying to adjust, you know, to like him being there as well. So, like, it was a big adjustment, you know, everything did shift, you know what I'm saying? As far as like, you know, how we practice, how we watch film, you know, like doing like stuff as a team, you know, a lot of the stuff changed there. And I was unfortunately, fortunately to have You know, Rondo too at the time, you know, Wim Brown was there. So like, them two can both navigate, you know what I'm saying? What's on the court, you know what I'm saying? You know, and how we want to play, you know, I would say. But like, it was an adjustment, but I don't think it was a big adjustment.

How was the conversation? I'm a basketball nerd. I love, like, I love the X's and O's. I love the game within the game. And so I'm asking this question personally for me, 'cause I wanna know.

Okay.

What was the dynamic, the conversations like amongst Bron and Rondo? Because for me, those are two of the greatest basketball minds to ever play in the NBA.

I would say the conversation, the dialogue, like as far as like in film, Man, like they broke down everything. Like that's who, like Rondo, the one that taught me how to watch film, you know, how to watch, like I didn't start watching a full game of film until like 2 years ago.

Wow.

Like that's who taught me how to watch a full game of film. And like, but you can just watch it, you know what I'm saying? But like he taught me what am I looking for, you know what I'm saying? When I'm watching this film, you know, and then just having them 2 together in film together, man,— it made, I would say it made everything so easy, you know, on the court. You know what I'm saying? Because now you know where to be. You know when this motion is happening, I know I gotta shift this way or I gotta do that. You know what I'm saying? So they put it, they break it all the way down to a point where like, if you fucking up, you not giving out effort. You know what I'm saying? Facts. So like, if they giving to you this way, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's knowledge, man. Just take that. You know what I'm saying? That was one of the things I took away from both of them. I just learned how to break down their film, you know, and actually know what I'm looking at when I'm breaking it down. You know? So that was, and it's helped my career. You know what I'm saying? Being able to be a leader on other teams. You know?

So—

Absolutely.

Was there ever a point or were there ever times where those two bump heads on their ideas? Because there was some high-level thoughts both of them dudes have. Were there ever times that they bumped heads on their ideas? And if so, was there ever a time where Bron will back down and say, okay, we going with what Rondo saying?

Yeah, I feel like they both had, you know, their disagreements, you know, as far as like what we doing. But I feel like that would be, you know what I'm saying, more when they discussing together. 'Cause I've never seen it, you know what I'm saying, happen, you know, in person. So I feel like if they discussing amongst themselves, like, have a disagreement, I feel like them guys, you know, they fix it before they even kind of, like, before we see them or, like, before we have, like, team film, you know, or whatever. But yeah, I've never seen them, like, disagree in person. But if they did, it's like, I feel like they both, you know what I'm saying, humble enough to, like, be able to listen to each other, you know what I'm saying, as far as, like, because— Yeah. They both, like you said, man, one of the greatest at knowing the game. And I feel like, you know, them both hearing each other out, you know, helps out both of them.

Absolutely. And speaking of your time with the Lakers, y'all didn't go on to win a championship in the bubble. There's a lot of perspectives on the bubble, quite frankly, by most people who weren't there.

Right.

Right. But there's a lot of perspectives on the bubble. What was your perspective on it? Someone who was there, won a championship there. So essentially was there the longest time. What was your perspective on the bubble and being in it?

It was hard. I'll say this, for me, I'm gonna restate it. It wasn't hard, you know what I'm saying? I enjoyed, you know what I'm saying, the time, you know, of just reflecting on myself. There by myself. You know, you couldn't really see nobody, couldn't really have the family there. But that's the biggest sacrifice I had was just not having my family there, you know, trying to manage to deal with that. You know, the kids, I just had a, well, my third child at the time and he was just a baby, you know. So that was the biggest sacrifice, you know, for me just leaving the family for that amount of time. Mm-hmm. 3 months at that time, man, was a lot. And I felt like it was, for me, it was great. You know, the stuff we did in the bubble or like being locked in that room, I did that at home.

Right.

So like if I'm in my game room, you know, I'm down there 6 hours straight playing the game. So it's like, it really didn't faze me as much, you know what I'm saying? As far as like me missing the family and the kids, you know, stuff like that. Other than that, man, I had a great time.

That's funny. And for those that say the bubble championship has an asterisk next to it, I'll say it before you go. I am not of that group.

Yeah, man.

Because it is hard as hell to win a championship. I don't care where the fuck you win it at. But for those that say there's an asterisk next to the championship that y'all won in the bubble, what do you say to them?

They just hating, man. It's like, they, that's like, like you said, it's one of the hardest team to like, the championship to win. I would say, you know, you plan a season, then season shut down. Like, don't know if we gonna even come back to play basketball or,— or like we saw how like the regular season, how we was playing. And then we was like, what the fuck? Season's over with. Like, damn. All right, what if like they do— what if we don't— can't come back? 'Cause we already had in our mind like, man, this is our championship regardless of if COVID stopped it or not. You know, so then the season stops, you know, boom. Season start back up, but we gotta go to the bubble. So like before they even, you know, like before it even happened, like going to the bubble, like as a team, you know, we still like, you know what I'm saying, was able to like, you know, hoop, I would say, you know what I'm saying? We didn't really like, we did it within the rims of like the testing of the NBA, you know, stuff like that. But like, we would still be able to like be around each other, be able to hoop, you know what I'm saying? And have fun, like regardless of like if this, the season stopped. So once we knew the season was like starting back up in the bubble, we was hyped. We was ready to go get our championship that we was at, like that we wanted, you know what I'm saying? Then, you know, season stopped again in the bubble.

Yeah.

You know, guys, a lot of people don't like these things. Like it had people's minds messed up. Like, man, all right, now it's time. I'm ready to go home. You know what I'm saying? Like, forget basketball. So like, I'm so grateful and I'm like, I appreciate all like my teammates at the time. Like, man, they mindset was like on that championship. Like they weren't ready to go. They came here for a reason. And we wanted it.

So. You said it was harder. It was one of the hardest championships to win. As someone who's won multiple championships, What made it so much harder to win there as opposed to if you're going to Miami for an away game, you know, or you're going to another place?

I would just say the mindset we had and how everything had, like everything had happened. I was saying like COVID shutting down, you know what I'm saying? Like we wanted that one so bad, you know what I'm saying? We would've jumped through flaming hoops for it, you know? So like, I gotta say, this was like, for me it was the hardest one because of like all the shutdown, like restarting shutdown, you know? Like that can change a lot of people's mindset, you know what I'm saying? And like, like you said, man, fuck this. Like it's, I'm not dealing with this anymore, you know? So I was appreciative of that, thankful to everybody on the team at the time, Same mindset, they weren't ready to go. So.

There was word that came outta those meetings. And again, for those of y'all watching, I was not there because we absolutely sucked that year. I think we won 15 games. And so we didn't actually make the bubble.

Yeah, I had a lot going on that year, man. A lot going on.

To be quite honest, I was in LA having a great time. So I'm actually a little happy we didn't make the bubble. Also, Before we move forward, Adam Silver, the mayor of Los Angeles, who wasn't the mayor at the time, so talk to the previous mayor. This man just admitted that they ignore all y'all COVID guidelines, all y'all testing. They kept playing basketball. They cheated on their way to a championship. Cheated? I feel like this is Deflategate. -esque or something of that nature. Because these guys, when none of us could play basketball, they just kept playing basketball and getting better. And then they go on and win a championship. So that's why I'm putting the asterisk next to it. 'Cause they was cheating. Nah, I'm just playing. We did it through the rules, man.

Everybody got, every player got tested. You know what I'm saying? If you had COVID, you gotta go home. You can't be around us, man. We did it.

I bet Bron probably had Michelle sitting there testing everybody.

No, it was just like, we didn't wanna stop playing like, man. Like, and it was like, if it's just the Lakers team at the time, like no outsiders, no way, nobody, like everybody's within the perimeter, like the COVID testing that NBA wanted. Like, I felt like we was good, you know? Like they couldn't say nothing.

Well, guess what? They definitely can't say nothing now. So it's a great time to talk about it. 3 years later, man, 3 years later, we good. Great time to talk about it. We talking about it. But there was reports that came out during that time where y'all was like having the meetings in the bubble and the season stopped. There was reports that came out that most of that, like the season stopping and people not wanting to play, was from the Clippers team at that time. Is there any truth to that? Like, because by the way, by the way that they went out, It kind of looked like it was true.

By the way, that was one of my favorite series of the bubble, that Nuggets-Clippers series. It was just like, man, how in the hell? You up 3-1. Even if you talked about leaving, you up 3-1.

Finish the job.

Finish the job, man.

Come on, lose the next round. Facts.

You knew everybody wanted to see Lakers-Clippers that year. You know?

Yes.

Just finish the job. It's like, "Man, we can sweep y'all. Like, then you can go home." You know? Like, "I'm gonna do it now." Like, and then we just sitting there waiting. Like I said, that's one of the favorite series I watched. 'Cause we had to sit there and watch, you know what I'm saying? This whole series.

So.

So who was in the meeting quitting?

Who was in the meet?

From the Clippers team. Who was in there quitting?

Draymond Green.

Because what I heard, that there was some guys from the Clippers team in there like, "Man, I don't wanna play. I wanna go home." Is that true? Who was in there quitting? I just wanna know because by the way, if you ask me, they left a championship sitting on the table. Now, whether they would've beat y'all or not, we'll never know.

But like, it would've been one of the best series, you know what I'm saying, that year. You know what I'm saying? For the play, you know what I'm saying? Like, so like everybody wanted it. You know what I'm saying? And we wanted it as well. Like we wanted that opportunity. Like, all right, we're gonna put this shit to bed. Like Lakers versus Clippers. Like here it is, you know? And they just, they just shit the bed, man. But like, like you said, back to that conversation, like I've heard it. Yeah, it did come from their team, but I don't know who said it. You know what I'm saying?

Them boys was quitting.

Them boys was like, they was ready to go. The first team ready to go. And then like, I forget who, OG Miami, what's his name?

Udonis.

Udonis Haslem, he stood up and he was like, man, he just talked about more for like it being for the younger guys and the guys ain't gonna be able to have no money, you know what I'm saying? If we do stop this like right now, like what about these guys, man? They just getting drafted, you know what I'm saying? Year 2, 3 guys. Like, what are they supposed to do about money? You know, like, are you older guys gonna help 'em out? You know what I'm saying? Some of your vets and your rookies, I mean, some of your young guys. So I think that like kind of shifted when he's like, he stood up and said all that. And I think it changed a lot of guys' mind. But like, they were the first team ready to go for sure.

That's crazy. Them boys left, they left a golden opportunity sitting right there on the table and they never got it again.

That's why I told you like, when a lot of stuff, the stopping, starting, stopping, like I had a lot of people's mindset change. Like, now, all right, I've been here long enough, man. All right, you wanna stop? All right, I'm done. You know, so appreciate the 2020 Lakers team, you know, for having that mindset, you know what I'm saying, of winning that championship.

Absolutely. I think it's crazy what, you know, hearing UD stood up and said that because the reality is, I remember sitting with Rich when y'all were in the bubble.

Yeah.

And like when all those conversations was going on, Rich was literally getting calls as it's going on.

Yeah.

As it's ending, what's next? We got another meeting later. And I remember sitting there with him and one of the things that he was saying, which no one was thinking about is, and to Udonis' point, but even to take it a step further, if we stop now, Not only does those young guys not make money, but you're actually going to have to negotiate an entirely new collective bargaining agreement.

Yes.

Which could take up to a year or two to actually negotiate that agreement. And so the league was stopped for 2 years.

2 years.

Now today, you're not closing a $76 billion TV deal.— if that stops. True. Right? So when you look at all of those factors and the effect that it had on the league, now how can you say the championship that was won through all of those factors have an asterisk by it?

I was like, that's why I stopped listening to people when they say that, man. I just like, man, all right. It's a championship. We won.

And I got my ring.

Right, we were still able to celebrate, you know what I'm saying? Like on the property, you know, in Orlando. But I mean, we had a great time and we didn't have, like in the finals, I think, or like a single end of the conference finals and then finals, we was able to have the family there, you know, which was great. You know, our family was able to like see us win the championship. We got the confetti coming down. It still was a, you know, championship, whatever.

But you know, everybody would love for the fans to be there.

Yeah. You know, to be able to celebrate with the fans. But you know, at that time, unfortunately we didn't get the opportunity, but we won.

Adam pulling that bubble off is still one of the greatest things I've ever seen in sports.

Come on, man.

Like—

Like how you do that? And with that money, like that amount of time you have, you know what I'm saying? You get this done. I was able to come here, you know, play and not have to worry about, you know what I'm saying? And with like, like going back to like, the bubble, like, but like, it was so much like just so much basketball. I could hear everything, you know, play calls, you know what I'm saying? Teammates, they calling everything out. Like, that was like much important to me, man. I could focus just on basketball. I had the— you couldn't even like— they might pump the crowd, you know what I'm saying? But it's just like them cheering.

Yeah.

So now you can't— you don't hear nobody talking to you, throwing off your game. So like that, I enjoyed that, man. I could play basketball. That's why I turned up. You know what I'm saying? So—

Nah, it was definitely, I had fun watching it in LA outside. It was great. The weather was amazing. I had a beautiful time watching it. But then moving on, you know, you win a championship with the Lakers. You eventually end up moving on to the Denver Nuggets. What was that experience like going from playing with Bron, who I always tell people, people don't understand how hard it is to get a good shot every time down the floor.

Yeah.

And when Bron, there are a few players, only a few though, there's not many. Bron obviously being one of them. Joker obviously being one of them. Where you come down the court and every time they have, they are capable of getting the team a good shot. What was it like going from then playing with Bron who's able to do that, but then going to play with Joker who kind of does it in a different way? Right.

That's what I was about to say. Like it was just Bron, you see Bron on the ball mostly, you know what I'm saying? Bringing the ball up. Even though Yo can do the same thing, you know, 0.5. But like once you get that, like them two guys, man, they demand attention. You know what I'm saying? As soon as they check the ball in. Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying?

So like, and I just fed off that. You know what I'm saying? Like I knew them guys was gonna have so much attention on them, you know? And I was gonna either get a wide open shot or we create a wide open shot. You know what I'm saying? Now the defense gotta move 'cause somebody's open. You know, they either doubling them two guys, you know what I'm saying? And what made it so much easier, and that's why I say they, I don't see a difference between them two. You know what I'm saying? Their IQ is fucking out this world. They can play, joking, they can shoot both and play. They got the all-around game. You know what I'm saying? But I would say just for them, like for me, what made, my career great playing with them. Like, they were willing to pass the ball when you open. Like, I don't care what type of pass it was, if you open, they're gonna try to get it to you, you know what I'm saying? And all I had to do was be ready to shoot, you know what I'm saying? So in that, like, kudos to both of them guys, man, you know? Like, they made my career better, you know, uh, like, later in my— later, later in my years, uh, so like Man, they're my brothers, man.

No doubt.

My brothers.

No doubt. And then being in Denver, 2022 season don't end the way you want it to end. Jamal Murray's out. Then you come back 2023 with Jamal Murray. Were y'all in the space going into 2023 or at what point in that season was it like, was it like going in where we got Jamal back, we think we're a championship team or was it at some point during that season like, oh, we like, we can do this?

No, I mean, I felt like they already knew they was championship team. You know, like the previous years before it happened to me, made the playoffs, you know, every year almost. I feel like they always tell me, they say it was missing just the one piece. And like when I got traded there and I felt the same thing, I was like, man, I felt this in training camp. Like, well, I'm walking around, guys, man, like, man, look, we can just stay focused, man. Like, we got a chance, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it's just me before I even got there, me watching from the from the outside, you know what I'm saying? How their team chemistry was. I was like, yeah, like me plugging into that spot, man, was like the best fit, you know? Like, so I told him like start of training camp, man, like, man, we gonna win this champ— like we gonna win a championship. Like if we can just, you know, stay together, you know, you know, and continue to like sacrifice and play for each other, man. Like it's gonna be like, it's gonna be a cakewalk, you know what I'm saying? Like—

Yeah.

Like, and them, like, me, like, being that vocal leader, talking about that, like, being the only one at the time, you know, having that championship, I feel like them guys, they listen, they gravitated towards you, like, toward me, you know what I'm saying? Like, and when I spoke, I didn't even speak about offense. Like, we had top 5, you know, offense, you know, that year. For me, it was just about their defense. Like, first thing I walked up to Coach Malone and asked him, like, you know what I'm saying, what was our defense last year? Like, they was like 20, you know what I'm saying? Won the championship, we was number 1 in the West, and we was top 5 defense, you know what I'm saying? So like, though, top 10. So switching that, you know what I'm saying, up, like, it changed a lot, man. And I'm just being, like I said, going back earlier, you know what I'm saying? Like, learning from them guys, man. Being that leader. I think it was important for them, like, at the time for the Nuggets, you know what I'm saying, to hear that, you know what I'm saying, to be able to have a guy that's won a championship, you know what I'm saying, that's been through that type of pressure, you know what I'm saying, and taking my knowledge that I know from that championship, you know what I'm saying, even though they say it was the bubble. But like, I learned a lot. You know, as far as like how to get there, know what it takes, you know, and just bringing that to Denver, you know, them guys gravitated towards me and like they stuck with it.

Absolutely. Also, I intentionally skipped over Washington, by the way, just so you know.

It's all good.

No need to discuss.

Nah, there's not much to say there, man, you know. 'Cause at one point we started off 10 and 4. You know, we was number 1 at one point, you know, at the time.

It's always interesting starting the season and seeing the bum teams at number 1 and number 2 in the conference. And you know they gonna finish at 14.

We definitely dropped down for sure quick.

It's always interesting. But nonetheless, like I said, you know what? We gonna act like that never happened because Detroit is where it started.

You gotta have a little couple speed bumps in there and everything.

The Lakers championship. Then there's like a blob of time that go and then the Nuggets.

You know how a road trip, you see a nice little area, you wanna take a detour. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

We say it was just like a little stop.

By the way, I love DC.

Me too.

Oh, DC is amazing. I absolutely love DC. But yeah, we not gonna even talk about your time.

Yeah, DC was like, it was a great city for me. My kids, family loved it. You know, even though it was a year, we enjoyed it. We met like some great people there, you know, even though we still friends with them now. Like, so like it's a great city.

Last year y'all ended up losing to the Minnesota Timberwolves. Not able to defend the title and go back to back. Throughout that season, did you know y'all didn't quite have the championship team like y'all had the year before? Losing Bruce Brown, losing Jeff Green. I think those were some huge losses.

Yeah.

So in going through that season, Did you feel like y'all didn't quite have a championship team?

No, I thought we still had it. You know what I'm saying? 'Cause you know what I'm saying? The people we had behind Bruce and Jeff, Peyton Watson, Christian Brown, them guys into a championship run, you know what I'm saying? Them guys showed promise, you know what I'm saying? That they'll be able to pick that slack up. And we also have faith in them guys as well, you know, that they was gonna do the same, you know what I'm saying? But you know, it's all about opportunity. You know, if they get the opportunity, you know, do what you do best, you know what I'm saying? I felt like during that season, you know, to run it back to back, you know, we all had the same mindset. Like, that's what we wanted to do. You know, we had a few bumps in the road, like, you know what I'm saying? Where we slipped up, you know what I'm saying? But it was a 3-way tie for first.

Yeah.

You know, like I feel like that's where we spent most of the, you know, you know how like towards the playoff guys get their rest. But I feel like that's what we spent most of, you know, our energy and like, like time, you know what I'm saying? Trying to get that first place, you know what I'm saying?

Playing catch up.

And playing catch up. And then like we get to the playoffs, we have no gas, you know, we felt like the Lakers should have beat us. Like we was down every— They should have. Every game.

They definitely should have.

At least like, at least 10 to like, I mean the highest maybe about what, 20 something? Like, like then just taking that energy, you know, using it there. So it was a lot that went into that season, you know, that we wish we could have, you know, did better.

That's interesting because when I think back to like our runs, That first year we wanted first like nobody's tomorrow. And we got it, we won a championship. The second year, which was 2016, we won 73. And so although we weren't chasing the first seed, we were chasing the 73 wins. And when I look back on it, I don't regret it because quite frankly, I don't think we ran outta gas in the playoffs. Like we were up 3-1 still, you know what I'm saying? So I don't think it was necessarily something that boiled down to like, ah, we ran outta gas. However, what I will say is this though, after that, trying to win them 73 was so exhausting that then 2017 KD came.

Yeah.

And it was never about like, can we get the number one seed? "We beat a bunch of teams, so we're gonna be in the race for it anyway." But it was never our goal like, "Yo, we gotta get the number 1 seed." Because I felt like at that point we knew like, A, we can win on the road. So we need to go win a road game, we can do that.

Yeah.

Or 2, if we need to. Like we felt like we could do that. And B, you know, some teams try to drop and stuff to get matchups that they want. That was never a thing for us. Like it don't really matter who we match up against. And so it's interesting to hear that though, because I feel like our mindset right after that was like, we're gonna make sure we get to the playoffs healthy.

Yeah.

Not necessarily be the number one. If we the 3 seed, who cares? Like it don't matter. And so it's interesting to hear a team that just won a championship. But then again, I guess when I look back on it, That next year we were chasing wins too. But it's just interesting to hear a team that won a championship say, we felt like we had to get the number 1 seed.

Yeah. I feel like that's what we, that's what the, I wouldn't say the mistake, but like trying to get that, you know. And it was like, I wanna say we had like 8 to 10 games left. Like even like, try to get that first place. But like, you had OKC, you had Minnesota, like, with them guys, they was fucking hooping. Like, the team was like killing. So like, it's just me thinking to like talking like some of the older guys, DJ, so like, man, it's like, that's, I felt like that's like where our mindset was, you know what I'm saying? We knew we was gonna make the playoffs, but it was like, oh no, we want number 1 seed, you know what I'm saying? And it was like talking, like figuring, trying to figure out who we would match up with, you know, that's what it's like. I don't worry about that. Let's just get to the playoffs no matter what seed we are, you know what I'm saying? Like, let's— it's not gonna be our championship route, but it was number one seed where we had that route. No, it's not gonna be that this year, you know what I'm saying? Because during the season we did have— Maul got hurt a little bit, you know, he sat down.

Yeah.

I'm saying, I sat out a few games, you know, AG getting hurt. You know, a lot of things happen within that, you know, trying to race for first. So, uh, like, like you said earlier, you know, we should have just been like trying to get there healthy, you know, regardless of what seed we was, and then just go from there.

Before we get out of here, um, we must talk about number one, congratulations, uh, new 3-year big money deal, man. Uh, another one. So congrats on that.

Appreciate it.

But first off, just what excites you? Well, before I go into that, I'd be remiss if I didn't say the Magic are finally trying to win some games. And the reason I say that is because, so a couple years ago, I was on the Shop and Mav was asking me like, or P was asking me like, yo, "Who's the teams that like on a soft Tuesday, like you just like, yo." And I was saying like, at the time it was the Kings.

Yeah.

Although the Kings for us was different because of that Northern California ride. But it was the Kings, the Orlando Magic. And it's funny because when we played the Magic the next year, The young fellas out there like, "Yeah, motherfucker. Like, you think it's gonna be easy." I was like, "Oh, I like them." It's the young core that y'all got now.

Yeah.

But number one, just talk to me. And well, I actually spoke about this during that draft. They ended up drafting Paolo. Everybody was saying they was gonna draft Jabari Smith. I personally thought Paolo should have been the number one pick. They ended up taking him. In large part, they was watching the Draymond Green show, taking my intel. They was high on your bar.

Good intel.

They took the intel, but it's a, hey, they did right. And I think Paulo is one of those generational players that, that organization hasn't been one that's been willing to spend money. They would give a Jeff Green a 1-year, $15 million. Get somebody else 1-year, $15 million. Which pretty much says we gotta cap threshold that we have to reach. So we gonna give you this 1-year deal, but we not really trying to win and we not locking nobody in. And now you see like, obviously they got the young core, they just extended Fron.

Fron, yep.

But bringing in someone like you says to me that, oh, now, oh, they serious now. Like they bringing in the guy who's proven to help lead teams, Championship teams, proven leader, two-way guy, knock the shots down, defend the other guys, the other team's best wing player. They ready to win now. What are you, in looking at that situation that you're going into, what are you most excited about, about joining Orlando Magic?

Man, just, I'm just, I'm excited like all around, you know, just to be able to play with a young group of guys that's hungry, you know what I'm saying? That's had a taste of the playoffs, you know what I'm saying? Took Cleveland to a Game 7.

Yeah.

You know, they know what it takes. And like just talking to a few guys, you know, their mindset, you know, it's about winning, you know? It's not, oh, I'm this guy, I'm that guy. It's just about winning basketball games. And then, trying to get to that point of winning the championship. But I'm just most excited just to play with them guys on this defensive end, man. Just, they finished top, what, you know, 3 or 5, you know, top defensively. Mm-hmm. And Suggs, man, he made defensive team, you know, just them guys, you know, just that length. I'm excited just, man, to see how team's gonna, try to play against this. You know, it's gonna be tough.

You just mentioned Suggs. So you now join Orlando Magic, Suggs is there, who's really good defender. Obviously we know what you capable of. By the way, I must say, I saw you guard when you were in Detroit in particular. And I don't know if you remember this game, it was at the Palace and then you did it again at Oracle. But I saw you probably guard Steph as good as I've ever seen anyone guard Steph.

I remember the game. I remember the one in Oracle too.

Yeah.

I remember that one too.

And I was just like, man, I can't screen this dude. Like, I couldn't believe you guarded him that well.

Yeah.

And that's when I knew like, yo, this dude is different defensively.

But like that didn't even, even like, I didn't even know I had that. You know what I'm saying? Like it clicked my sophomore year in college. Like where my freshman year, I didn't even, I was playing outside of my position. I was playing 3 guard and you know, 2 fouls in college in the first half, you come on, on the bench.

Come on over here.

Right.

So that was me like my whole freshman year. So I'm like, man, fuck, I wanna play. You know what I'm saying? I'm tired of sitting over here and something just clicked. You know, next year I'm guarding the best team, you know, like player, and I'm actually moving my feet, you know what I'm saying? Stand in front of these guys, get steals. And I've never worked on defense like that, you know what I'm saying? Like, it just like something just clicked in my head where like, nah, this is your skill right here. Like, this is where you best at. You can score the ball, you know what I'm saying? But like your mindset and how it works, defense works first, then the offense, you know what I'm saying? And I just, I just carried that on, you know, when I got to Detroit, you know, uh, it didn't happen till my second year, uh, where like Stan came over. That's when I was guarding the best player every night, you know what I'm saying? And it just got— I just got stronger, I got better at it, you know what I'm saying? Started learning, watching film, you know what I'm saying? Like, and all that, you know, got ties into it. But like, that didn't happen like just, oh, like, it just happened. Like, I don't know what It just clicked.

So with you now being with the Magic, does that give y'all the best defensive backcourt in the league?

Yeah, I said it in my press conference. Don't be surprised if you see me and Suggs on some All-Defense team next year. So I supposed to made it this year too, you know what I'm saying? But like, I don't know how that works, man.

Well, somebody gotta move over because I wasn't qualified to make it this year. I'm not getting suspended next year.

Of course not.

So I'm gonna make it. So somebody gotta move over. That's all I'm saying. I'm just gonna throw that out there.

I mean, a lot of guys on there that I felt like I was, you know, better than, you know, defensively wise, you know, that was on there. You know, first team, you know, that I feel like that was solid. You know who they had up there. But like second team, you gotta at least consider, you know what I'm saying, KCP for sure. You know, KCP do his thing though.

I can dig that. I respect that. Franz has got his extension. Obviously Paulo is next up, gonna break the bank. What do you see that needs to happen with this team in order for it to take that next step? Like got to Game 7, lost to Cleveland. That's great for a young team.

Yeah.

But a lot of teams get stuck right there.

Yeah.

What needs to happen with this young team to ultimately take that next step?

I feel like they got the formula already. You know what I'm saying? I feel like they, one of the reasons they bringing me over, I feel like they didn't have a lot of shooting. You know what I'm saying? Where, you know, you put a lot on, you know, Paulo and Vaughn, you know, to make plays, you know, but you also gotta have guys that gonna be ready to knock down that shot too. And it was like a lot of inexperience as well. You know, they're young, you know, it's first time they making it, you know, as a young crew or young core, you know, like I was like surprised they went to game 7, you know, but seeing how they was, the toughness, you know, the effort they gave, man, like it made it easy, it made my decision easy, you know what I'm saying, to come to Orlando. You know, and they wanted me just as bad as, you know what I'm saying? I wanted to be able to join their team, you know, and add what I can add. So like that made it easier for like me to make my decision. But like, I'm excited about these guys. Like they just, they got the formula, just need it, you know what I'm saying? Like I said, just shooting, I would say.

Yeah.

Just watching, like them watching the, through the playoffs.

Man, my brother, I appreciate you, my dog, coming on the show. It's been an honor sitting here having this conversation, talking to you about your journey, man. It's like, obviously I've been on one team and never had to make those adjustments. And it's always interesting to me to hear that journey because like, I am, I keep everything the same. Like I don't, I don't adjust to change well. And so to see like guys do that, I have a tremendous amount of respect. Like I struggle with like, oh man, it's a new coach on the staff or it's a new trainer in the training room. It's a, you know, it's a new strength coach in the way. Like I struggle with those things.

And so— I say it's a hard adjustment, you know, no matter, you don't know what you're walking into, you know, how the team, how the organization is, like how like the trainers are, you know, everybody around you. But like I would say every team I've been on, like either somebody that came with me from the previous team or I'm going to a team where I know someone, you know what I'm saying? Which made it easier, you know what I'm saying? To be able to just come over there and like just fit right in, you know? I know one person now, all right, now I can get to know everybody else. And every team I've been on, I feel like it's been that way. So Alex Caruso, one of my good friends, man. The day I got traded, I signed with LA. I didn't even know he was playing with the G League team and I played against him in college.

Wow.

So just having them type of like friendship, you know, and like people that you know, man, helps out a lot when you adjusting to new teams and new cities.

Getting traded, you know, having like with Kuz, having Brad there, it's about the only thing that saved Washington. My dog, I appreciate you, man. All right, man, appreciate you, brother. From the Resort World, we appreciate y'all tuning in. Vegas, baby.

Peace. Peace.