Kyle Kuzma on advice from Kobe & LeBron, best NBA dressers & comparing eras | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. This next guest, I feel like this was supposed to happen a long time ago, but it's finally happening and I'm excited about it. You know, I'm from Saginaw, Michigan, as most of you may know. And Saginaw happens to neighbor a city that goes by the name of Flint. Now we're not directly next to each other, but we're close enough. And this next guest, hell, is from Flint, Michigan. Got that Flint-Saginaw connection. It's different and you only understand that if you from there. Nonetheless, as you know, we got high standards on this show and this man is definitely a champion. Welcome Kyle Kuzma to the show. What's up, my brother?

Appreciate the generous introduction. Appreciate that.

No doubt, man. I must say, if you see my outfit, I had on some nice pants, had on a nice Dior t-shirt, some nice kicks. And I looked out the window, and the only reason I was dressing like that, because I'm like, "Kuz gonna come in here." You know how he come and dress. So I'm gonna put, I'm gonna throw on something to look halfway decent. And then I looked out the window as I was getting dressed and I said, "Oh man, Kuz dressed down.

I could get comfortable." I got you, you know what I'm saying? I'll come to your house. You know, just keep it real simple and chill.

I appreciate that, you know, but you got a certain standard and a certain expectation when it comes. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's just, yeah. But I thought you was about to come in this motherfucker with a big sweater, you know what I'm saying? Some kicks with the glasses, you know? So I appreciate it.

Got you.

Tried to step it up. I wasn't gonna compete.

No.

It wasn't a competition.

No competition.

It was just so I could sit next to you.— and not look like an idiot.

I respect that.

That's all. Not compete. Now I don't want that competition. I know the battles I can win. I know the battles I can lose. Listen, you know what's up.

I will lose. I love it.

So I appreciate that.

No problem.

No, man, but how your summer going?

Oh man, I'm going great, man. A lot of travel, a lot of focus on my craft and my body getting better. A lot of business things. Life's good right now. I can't complain.

You've done something that I've noticed, not that I want to do it, but I have a huge appreciation for it. And I'll tell you what it is. As someone, and you just mentioned travel, as someone who loved to travel, being on the West Coast, you know, and during the season I'm in San Francisco, obviously off-season I'm in LA, you miss the Caribbean because it's so far to get there.

All day.

So what do you do if you're on the West Coast? You pop down to Cabo. If you going on a trip, For me, I'm gonna probably go to Europe if I'm gonna go all the way over there. And so that's—

Still far.

It's far.

Still far.

I've been watching you. You've been popping down to that Caribbean now that you on the East Coast. Talk to me about that. 'Cause that is a totally different thing that most people around that watch the NBA don't quite understand.

Oh, the Caribbean or the travel aspect?

Just like how different your life is now that you're playing on the East Coast as it is than when you're playing on the West Coast.

Oh, I mean everything across the board. Like, you know, like me being in LA for 4 years, those West Coast trips are long. Like you gotta go play in Dallas, that's 3 hours. You gotta play in New Orleans, that's 4. Like, there's some pushes. But when you're on the East Coast, you know, we may play Philly, that's a 20-minute flight. New York, 40-minute flight. Go down to Charlotte, hour flight. Chicago, hour and a half. So travel is just so much more easier to get to. And then you talk about off-season traveling, like I'm never ever in the Caribbean. Like when I was on the West Coast and granted, like my girlfriend, she is, you know, Caribbean herself. So it makes it a little easier to get there, but even to get to Europe, like this was my first summer going to Europe.

Wow.

First summer, you would never know that, but it's like, I don't wanna travel 12 hours and miss out on training. But now this flight's 6 hours. I could still finagle the time zones, maybe catch a FaceTime lift with my trainer or something. It's just so much more easier. So, you know, travel is so much better, honestly.

It's a beautiful thing. I always, I like to focus on those things sometimes. And humanizing the athlete, you know, I think sometimes, We live in this world as athletes where people put you on a pedestal and treat you like, oh man, you're like this superhero figure, only to do one of two things. The moment you then start to act like you're that superhero figure that they treat you like, they crush you.

Yep.

And to complain as if nothing in your life has issues. Like, "Oh man, you play basketball, you make a lot of money." There's not a lot of issues. And I mean, this may sound a little privileged, and it is.

People have given you that privilege though.

No.

That entitlement to that privilege though, because of how, like you said, you get held to a pedestal, right? But if you do one thing wrong, "Oh, we need to cancel this dude 'cause he doesn't eat." Post cereal. Like, what?

Post cereal.

What are we talking about right now? You know? And that's the thing that it's a new age and you do, you talk about it the best outta anybody. You know, you have the whole new media, boop boop, whatever. But like, just normalizing that we're humans. Like, we're not like the old 1980, the 1990s athlete that was nothing about, it was only basketball. You could not do anything. Them dudes was getting it in.

Facts.

Doing whatever they wanted to do. You just didn't see it. And people weren't so maybe, and I can't speak 'cause I wasn't in those times, but maybe not as obsessed with the athlete unless it was like an MJ, you know, a Jeter, somebody of that magnitude that was so overbearing, overpowerful beyond just like how we are with social media. Anybody can be famous now. Back then it was totally different. So, you know, that's something that it's not talked about enough. You know, just like we're humans, we do things, we make mistakes. Like you're criticizing me for this, but you're getting yelled at for taking the trash out or something.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying? Like that's an issue in your life too. You have issues, bro.

Absolutely.

I'm not saying taking the trash is an issue, but you know what I'm saying?

No, for sure. I like, They act as if there's never anything that can be off or wrong.

No.

With us. No, for sure. I think when you look at like the guys that came before us, everything around us is just bigger now. Like we're more noticeable because of the TV. Like you're on every TV, every game that an NBA player plays is on television. Yep. At the time that it's happening. Like you even think the NBA Finals used to be tape delayed.

Tape delayed.

Like, and so all of those things, it definitely adds to it, which this takes me to Kuz hit me last week and he said, yo, I got a question for you. He said, why is nicknames not as big today as they were back in the day? Like you, and you think of the, The Big Aristotle with Shaq or Diesel, The Truth, The Answer, like Your Airness, Air Jordan, like, and the names go on, The Black Cat, like the nicknames go on and on and on back then, but not so much today. Like you don't necessarily get nicknames today. And we were saying, why is that? And you have some interesting thoughts on it. I would love to hear. And it's actually even more interesting. I saw Austin Reeves, who's on the Lakers, come out the other day. It's like he's trying to shed two nicknames. And it's like, brother, you have not done enough in your career to be trying to shed nicknames that people gave you. I was really blown away when he said that. Like, brother, you should take those nicknames and try to run with 'em.

For sure.

And I definitely understand the thinking behind the AR-15 one, but I don't think anyone's like hearing the words AR-15 on a basketball court and thinking weapons. I personally don't think that.

Personally, Hillbilly Kobe is lit.

A Hillbilly Kobe, like you better embrace that one.

You have to embrace that one.

You kidding me? Come on, bro. It ain't you any Kobe.

That shit is fire.

Hillbilly Kobe, you should be running with that. By the way, if I'm him and they're calling me Hillbilly Kobe, I'm trying to be in the next "White Man Can't Jump." I'm trying to really run with that.

I'm making that my mantra. I'm coming in the arena, I'm doing everything hillbilly standpoint, straight up.

Absolutely. Like that's where the game is today. And I feel like you can talk to me more about that than I can talk to you because I feel like you, and what are you? I think you're 5 years younger than me. And that's kind of where the errors are starting to flip. And I feel like y'all understand, and initially when things first happened, everybody always says a negative.

Right.

So initially y'all would get crushed for like having a photographer, you know, all of the things that go around branding, young guys were getting crushed for it. Now it's the wave. And I feel like you can talk to me more about that than I can talk to you because I feel like you young guys, have taken the branding thing and taken it to new heights. And here's Austin Reeves trying to throw his away.

I don't get it. Yeah, I don't get it. You know, I think, you know, from, I can only speak from my, my example first, you know, I'm coming into the NBA from Michigan, then from Utah, then to LA, right? I have a different type of route than you ever had. And granted, you won championships early, so many championships, everything, right? But, From a brand perspective, I feel like I was thrusted into this spotlight out here. And as you know, this is, you know, this can make you, break you, make you a star and throw you to the curb, whatever. So for me, I had to get on it right away 'cause I seen it. And then I'm a very inquisitive person. I ask questions, I go out, I mean, I don't know how many times I've called you in the past just for whatever.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? Having relationships cold. Having a relationship with Bron comes and understanding and seeing what a brand really is. So for me, I took it right away. Like coming in, it was Kuzmania. It was like, yo, this man, who the hell is this dude? Whatever. I ran with it. My first year, we made merch t-shirts for Kuzmania t-shirts. I was the 27th pick. I made $1.3 or $1.4 million on my rookie salary. Wow. Right? Through merch, I made like $750K off of merch.

Oh wow.

This first year. But like, that's, I see shit, you know what I mean? Like I'm about my business, you know? I wanna make money, you know? 'Cause I'm from Flint, you know? From Saginaw. So if I see something, I'm an opportunist.

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Yeah.

But it looks like you're working with these brands more and that is of what models do. And so I, that's, again, I just sit back and I watch.

Right.

And to me it went from like, oh man, he's dressing. Wow, he's dressing more to like, now he's working with these brands. He's partnering with these brands. He's doing looks for these. And I feel like there was kind of a, more of a push once your lady came into your life on that front. Just what it looks like to me.

And it's a different vibe, right? Like let's talk about industries, for example. Our industry is different than their industry, completely different. And for them, it's a certain way of how to operate and also to get things done and build those type of relationships. So if I'm wearing a certain type of brand, right? Like 9 times out of 10, like those are my people and those are people I rock with, right? But that's how you get through and connect in that world, right? But also with her, it's just, it's made me more, 'cause I've already been in tune with fashion, but made me more into what I need to do. And when I see her and what she does with her brand being successful, it just makes it easy for me to, you know, copycat in a sense, you know, to, you know, maybe ask her questions. What do you, what do you, what do you do about this? Yeah. Or for me, I could just watch you and then see what you do and just try to replicate into my own. And no, it's made me 10 times more into it. You know what I mean? Just locked in of like the little things I need to do to keep elevating in that space.

What's your end goal as far as fashion goes? I know for me, I had a, like, I got, I always say I don't like fashion. What I like is style.

Yep.

Like I like to look nice. I like to dress nice. I throw a fit together. I'm cool. I don't need to look like I'm trying to dress for GQ or nothing like that. I just wanna feel good about myself. And so for a while I had a stylist and I got to the point to where I was like, what am I doing this for?

Right.

Okay, so I'm spending this amount of money. But what do I want this to equal out to in the end?

Right.

It was nothing. Like, it was literally just like, I just wanna feel good when I get dressed.

Right.

So I got to the point where I'm like, I don't need that anymore. What's the goal for you? Because I feel like you give a lot of effort to it and it shows because I think you're great at it. But what's the end goal on the fashion front for you?

Man, It's so hard to always think of things like that because I'm still trying to figure out my end goal with basketball. Like, I want to keep building, you know, whatever that legacy may be, whether that's All-Stars, more championships. Like, Kobe always told me, you know, you gotta keep the main thing the main thing, right? So for me, to all my other interests, it's tough to always say, okay, this is what I envision. Because one, I'm so damn spontaneous. I could say this one day and then I could be like, okay, I think I like this direction a little bit more. Right? But for me, I'm just, I love art. That's my biggest thing. And like fashion, like we're talking about, it's just a style and clothes and whatnot. But like fashion is art, you know, like I wore a big-ass pink sweater this year. Right? But that's an art piece. That's not, that's not clothing. You're not wearing that to the store. You're not wearing that to a plane, but you know, it's a piece of art. And I just put the art on to show people like, yo, this is what it is. It's not just me, you know, just wearing clothes. And yeah, I feel good. I do the same thing. Like I wear, you know, to what you or somebody else may think is crazy. That's your reference point. My reference point is, yo, this shit is dope. And it makes me like feel amazing. So it's all the same, but you know, I'm just so creative as a person, you know, Definitely designing. Oh, definitely that. Like, you know, collaborating with the top brands. That's a big thing. You know, I just love to create and show and express myself through other things.

So. That's, and part of the reason when you signed with Puma was so you can do more in that lane as well, wasn't it?

Oh yeah. Oh, all day. Like, you know, being with Nike, which is an unbelievable brand, you know, but like from a creative standpoint, they're not letting their athletes do things anymore like that. And unless you're like a top guy, a top done, then you get the shoes, you get the merch things you want to do, this, that, and forth. But with Puma, I'm just in my own lane and I've always been in my own lane. Like I'm not a follower. I don't follow people. And I do things that want to, you know, one, make me happy, but also—

Yeah.

Or maybe money too. And you know, Puma's just so great because they're so flexible and they understand, they listen and they want to, you know, make, not only make me feel good, but make me want to feel like the partner I want to be. And anytime you have that type of love between two mutual things, great things are always going to happen. So.

No doubt. Your top 5, give me your top 5, not including yourself. I know you will put yourself in the top 5, but just give me a top 5 that you're not in.

What do you mean by that? Like— Guys in the league. The guys in the league dress. Who do I like?

Who you like that's doing it. It's not that just because they not in your top 5, they not dressing, but that your top 5.

Yeah. I wouldn't even say top 5. I would say who I like. Like who I like. I like obviously Jordan Clarkson. I like his swag because it's him. It's himself. And when I first came into the NBA, He was on my team. So I got it firsthand like, oh, this is a dude that's in fashion that I think is fly. Like I'm looking up to him in certain situations. 'Cause coming in, I'm a rookie. He a 4th, 5th year player. And I'll say him, Frank Jackson.

Ah. Frank Jackson. Okay.

You know, I'm not just a top guy, you know, I see him and it's just him, it's organic, it's himself. You know, I love Book and Book's swag 'cause it's him. You know, it's certain guys in the league you see, they just put on the designer and they stick it all over themselves. You know, or it's, everybody wants to dress like Travis Scott now. Everybody wants to do the street stuff. But like, what's your swag? Like, I wanna see your swag. So got those three. Chris Paul is very clean. He keeps it real casual. Yeah. Very, very, very, very mature-like. I like that. 5 is tough.

There's a lot of guys fighting for that job.

It's a lot of guys. It's a lot of guys. I feel like there was a rookie I liked. Damn. Draymond Green. I like what he's doing in the fashion world. He was out in Paris. He was out in Paris for his first time. And, uh, you know, just watching him brand what shows he went to, he's doing the right thing too. So I'm gonna say those 5.

I respect that. That's a good 5. You know who get left out of people 5 that I have a huge appreciation for? It's PJ Tucker.

PJ? Oh yeah, PJ. Yeah, PJ is there too.

PJ just so fly. PJ just get it.

Can't hide money.

He just get it. He just get it, man. I don't, like PJ is there for me. No, PJ too.

But let's like, it's so subjective. Yeah, it is. Relative, you know what I'm saying?

For sure.

Like I could say my 5, but I'd be like, oh, well shit, I love PJ too, but I just didn't put him there. Nah, for sure. You know? So.

Nah, I can dig that. And continuing in business off the court, 'cause we'll get to the on the court.

Yep.

But I see you post a lot, a drink Barcode.

Yes, sir.

Talk to us more about the drink, why you got into it, how it came about. Just tell me more about, about that?

Yeah, so Barcode is a drink that I co-founded with another partner of mine. And, you know, for me, growing up, not necessarily growing up, but within my NBA world, you know, you're doing beverage deals with the Gatorades or these other companies, right? But it's not necessarily you, you know, it's not really authentic to yourself. You know, it's like a, here's the money, and take the money and then do it for 6 months and then your term's done. You know how it goes.

Absolutely.

But you know, I'm not really into short time things though. Like if I, if I want to put my, my all into something, like I have to be like into it. It has to be authentic and genuine to me. And that's what Barcode is like. Barcode, we're extremely healthy. We have like 2 grams of sugar. Name a sports drink Lifestyle drink that has that, not really gonna find it. We have adaptogens in it for recovery, mushrooms in it. We have magnesium, vitamin D. How many drinks have vitamin D in it? Everybody in the world, probably 80% of the world is vitamin D deficient.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

So it just ties into who I am as a person. And I take care of my body just as much as anybody. Like, I care about myself and what I intake because that's my career. Like, that's how I make money. I don't take care of my body, I'm not making money. So, you know, Barco has been just a great journey for us building it out and, you know, the best is to come. So.

No doubt. And what have you learned? 'Cause I know I've done, I've been involved in some business ventures where I'm like, oh man, I learned a ton from that and made a lot of money. I didn't learn much, but I made money. I learned a bunch but lost money. You know, like what's that learning process been for you with this deal? Some things that when you look at this deal, you like, ah, I did this. Like, I think I did this well. And then some that you look at, you know, where you are in that drinking, like, ah, I could have did this a little bit better. And now I'm tweaking that for this particular brand.

Right.

But also as I continue to move forward in business, this is a mistake I made that I know I won't make this one again.

Well, I think it's all about patience. Like we don't have patience as athletes. 'Cause I feel like, you know, I'm speaking for myself at least, because, you know, I want things now. I want it right away. Like, like I want to be great tomorrow, boo boo boo and forth. So I have that mentality with everything, but not everything is on that type of, type of time. And one of the things I've learned with Barcode is just like, you have to have patience with things. Like you think like, just 'cause it's yours and it's your name, that it's gonna be easy to, getting Whole Foods, easy to get on Amazon, on GoPuffs. So it's on delivery and stuff. And, you know, it's all about, you know, just having the right management and team in place for whatever business endeavor you have, you know, because it all starts with that. Because it could be the best idea in the world, but you don't have the right management correlating everything. Doesn't matter.

Nah, that's super dope. I think that's actually what I was getting at is the distribution and you hit on it. So I appreciate that. That's good though. That mean, you know what you're talking about.

For sure.

And you're really into the business, which I think is a great thing. But switching gears, man, the 27th pick, like I said earlier, from Flint, Michigan, but coming from Utah, but take me back to before you even get to Utah. Yeah. Growing up in Flint, you don't go to Michigan or Michigan State, you end up at Utah. Talk to me about your recruiting journey and how it ended up being Utah for a kid that's gone on to be who you are.

Yeah.

And yet you didn't end up at a state school.

Yeah. And you know, that's a big deal in Michigan. Like for you guys that don't know anything about Michigan, like you grow up, if you're a basketball player, your dream is to play at Michigan State or Michigan. And I know for damn sure that was mine. But you know, my journey didn't work out that way. You know, I was, and I still am a late bloomer to an extent.

Yeah.

You know, growing up my freshman year in high school, I was 5'8". You know, all my friends, Montez, the Miles, a couple other guys, you know, by the time you're a freshman, sophomore, and you know, like you already had offers, you already had college letters, all that. I didn't get my, first college letter until my junior year. I didn't get my first offer until the summer of my junior year going into my senior year. So I've always been behind the 8-ball, but, you know, growing up, I had a passion for basketball. It's all I ever cared about. My mom, if she was working, couldn't drop me off at our YMCA, you know, I would take the bus there. I would walk a mile just to get there. I'd be there all day until 8, 9 o'clock when she got off of work, 'cause I really had nowhere else to go. If I wasn't playing basketball, I was always a good kid and I never wanted to disappoint my mom or any family member. I didn't want to be that person got in trouble. So, you know, the YMCA, that was my safe haven. That was basketball, my safe haven. And man, I've had a hell of a journey. And you know, when I look back, it's just funny because it's like, That's the reward in life. Like, that's what I got from winning a championship. Like, the championship, it's not really the reward. It's like us talking right now, and I'm reminiscing on these million thoughts of not having money one time to eat Subway, you know, while I'm at the YMCA for 10 hours. Like, that's a laughing moment I can have for myself, and I can keep with myself forever. Because of that, you know what I mean? So yeah, my journey's wild. Wild for sure.

No, I think it's, I agree with you. Like when we won our recent championship, I don't even think I touched the trophy on the stage. I don't think I touched the trophy till it was time for picture because afterward, like it's not about the trophy. It's the journey. Like, I'm sitting there and I'm looking, I intentionally stood to the side and I'm just watching guys like interact and like, it's always a big deal for me to see the first time guys and like how they— because you win that first one and it's like amazing. And then everyone after that is like, they incredible. But you never get that feeling again that you got the very first time you did it. Right, I bet. And so for me, the thing that I get the most enjoyment from is watching the first-time guys and how they react to it.

Right.

And like just the excitement they have. And for me this time, it wasn't even about that. Like I'm just standing to the side and I'm like, just thinking about the journey, about Klay coming back. And like the day he come back, I go down with a back injury, not knowing if I'll be able to play again that year. I worked my way back from that. And the day I got back, Steph got hurt. So then we go into the playoffs and like our starting five hasn't played any minutes together. Yeah. Like no chance we winning this. Like we haven't played together.

Right.

But what I, and as I stood there on the side and I'm looking, it's like, oh, it's the journey. Like the journey is what you feel good about. The journey is what keeps you going. It's not, oh man, I need to get another championship. It's I need another championship journey. That's what keeps you going. And so to hear you speak on your journey, Like I admire your journey, you know, like when you went to Utah, like that's not, people aren't just going from Michigan to Utah.

That's no offer. I had no offers.

That's it. That was the only one.

I had Utah, I had Penn State. And the reason why I picked Utah was because Larry Krystowiak, he was the co-chair at the time and you know, he just had an NBA pedigree. And I'm like, yo, if that's where I wanna go, I gotta go to him. 'Cause this other coach, I don't know. You know what I mean? So I'm just blind faith like, okay, this dude's been where I wanna go. I'm gonna see if I can learn whatever the fuck I can learn from him. And let's see where it goes. It worked out.

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Wow. Yeah.

I mean, if I was crazy, I think he didn't go to Penn State because he didn't wanna play against Michigan State. But that's a story for another day. Just that's the green and white in me. But so you're drafted 27th pick.

Yep.

Which was a sleeper by the way. Like I don't think, anyone was expecting you to not only be a first round pick, but then to come in and produce the way you produced from the beginning. I felt like that will, like that caught everybody off guard. What was that process like? And you hit on it a little bit. Not only are you coming in the 27th pick, but you're coming in with the most storied franchise in, Probably in sports history, but definitely in the league.

It's like a movie, honestly. It's a movie. Like, I tell this to people all the time. It's a movie. Like, I wasn't supposed to be drafted. Like, I got drafted 27th 'cause I was killing in workouts. I was killing the combine. Like, you know the Under Advisory Committee, right? You call them right before you decide, okay, do I wanna test the waters? Do I wanna declare? Do I wanna come back? They called me, or I called, well, however it went, I called, they called, and they go, okay, so we got your feedback from your past season. 19 NBA teams believe that you should be picked around 50 to 60. And then the other 11 said that you would go undrafted. So take this information with what you want. 'Cause I had another year eligibility, but I was graduating. So I was like, why the hell am I in school right now? I just got a degree. That makes no damn sense to go back to school. And I know I'm way better than 50, 60 people in this draft. I know I'm way better than 50, 60 people.

Absolutely.

I gotta be, right? So I go out, I test it. I tell my coach, I'm like, coach, I'm leaving. And after knowing all this, everybody's like, yo, You're making a terrible mistake. Like, why are you doing this? Nobody thinks you'll get drafted. Why won't you come back, potentially be a first round pick? Coach, I'm outta here, bro. Like, for me, I just have this blind confidence in myself and everybody sees it. I wear wild clothes, whatever. No, that's really me. Like, I really got the most utmost confidence.

There's a saying for that. It's called irrational confidence.

Irrational.

I wish I had irrational confidence. Confidence, by the way.

But you have a certain type of confidence in yourself though, to be who you are.

Yeah.

To go on this, you be saying some crazy things sometimes, but, but.

Definitely. But it's irrational confidence is a different thing. Like irrational confidence, like what I have very strongly is I have a very strong will.

Okay.

And so like, I can will myself through some stuff, just like willing myself through it. Like, but irrational confidence is something that I wish I had.

Yeah.

Because irrational confidence, like will, it takes you to a different place.

Right.

Because you never waver on confidence. Like, I waver on confidence at times. I'll be 100% honest. Like, —my shooting, a prime example. Like, I've wavered on confidence in my shooting.

No, I know exactly what you're saying. You know what I'm saying?

Now, but guess what? Money on the line, I can will myself to knock that motherfucker down. Yeah, no, you can. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so it's two different things, but I have, like, Steph has irrational confidence, you know? And you have that.

When Steph's like that, it's honestly funny for him. Like I know I feel this way. It has to be for him. If he's in a slump or he's in a game and let's say he's shooting 1 for 7 and 1 for 8 from 3, he's probably laughing at this point. Like he's like, oh, this is, I don't know why the fuck's not going in.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? And, but for you, you're like, fuck, I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna take this next one. You know what I'm saying? But no, that's something I definitely have. So I go into the combine Killed the combine. I only played a half and I had like 17.5. My agent was like, oh, you gotta get the hell out here. You shutting it down. So I shut it down at this point. And at the time I didn't even have no draft workouts. Only draft workout I had was Utah Jazz because I was the local kid, right?

Yep.

So most of the time in the draft process, I would say guys probably work out for what, 8 teams maybe?

I worked out for 10. 19 teams.

Yes. But you and me are on the same page though.

Facts.

I worked out for 20 teams and there was only 25 teams that had draft picks. So I had to just come in and same thing you had to come in and slay every workout.

Absolutely.

Everybody that was ahead of you, it was like, yo, this guy is, I made it a point where it was like, I was the best person to ever seen workout. There's no chance. There's nobody more in shape than me. There's nobody that's, playing is harder, more locked in, whatever. That's like, that's what my mindset was. But that also helped me in my career early on too, because it's easy just to come to LA and be like, oh, I'm a Laker, I'm chilling, whatever. Right. But I'm coming in summer league like, yo, y'all about to know who I am. Like, like I'm a kid from Flint. Like I have nothing to lose. I'm playing with house money at this point. I'm still playing with house money. You know what I'm saying? Cause you know where I'm from, you playing with house money.

Absolutely. Absolutely. No, it's, I mean, that's how I approach it.

Right.

Like, I was never supposed to be here.

No, sir.

And that's why I told everybody what I told them after we won. It's like, this was never supposed to happen for me. In their eyes though. Right. In my eyes.

It's always, it's written.

No, this is exactly what I said. Yeah, 100%. But in their eyes, this was never supposed to happen for me. So I like, that's what I'm doing. Right. You get to the Lakers and you're able, you're afforded the opportunity by coming to the Lakers to build a relationship with Kobe.

Yep.

How to talk irrational confidence. That's the irrational confidence king, by the way.

Oh, for sure.

He worked and that irrational confidence just became a part. Like you just, it became a part of who he is, but That's the irrational confidence. King, how did that relationship help you, especially early on in dealing with like, y'all was getting y'all ass kicked. Lakers fans do not handle that well. How did that relationship help you continue to do what you were doing and deal with the shit that people were starting to say?

You know, the biggest thing he always ever said was keep the main thing, the main thing, right? That was one thing. And two, just, Like that was like my North Star. You know what I'm saying? You may never get there, whatever, but it's what you get out of it is what you're trying to reach. Right? So the ultimate professional, take care of your body, playing every single game, having this type of mentality, like, yo, like I'm here for a reason. This is my purpose. Like my purpose tonight is to kill. My purpose tonight is to go out and help my team win. Like having somebody like that early on my career, I mean, changed everything for me. You know, I could say the same thing about, you know, Bron coming year 2 and seeing it from a player perspective. 'Cause you know, Kobe was here, he was gone retired at this point. So it was just like, you know, word of mouth, but like, Bron, I'm really seeing it too. So, you know, just having that relationship with Kobe, it was, man, it was everything. Like I still have the text messages that we just had, never deleted them, you know, just like, just things to go back on, things to think of. Like, like he was just so, he was just so smart, man, about just everything, putting you on game just of, of things you wouldn't even think of. Like the attention to detail that he had in basketball, he had in life, he had it in business, he had it in relationships. And like, that's what I want for my life. Yeah.

Speaking of Bron coming here, when Bron came, the Lakers traded a lot of pieces. And I remember during that time, I know a lot of people don't, but I remember during that time it came down to like, what pieces were they gonna trade?

Yeah.

Because it was you, it was B.I., it was Jordan Clarkson, it was the list, Josh Hart, Lonzo, the list goes on and on. And it comes down to what pieces are we gonna trade? And they ultimately decide to stick with you and trade Brandon Ingram. And that time, I'm not even sure you realized that was going on at that time in the business because you were so young. I realized it was going on. But if you did realize that that was going on, what did that do for your confidence that they essentially chose you?

I mean, that they believe that I'm a winning player and I'm somebody that can bring a championship to this organization. I mean, what more? And none of this was never said, right? It's just, I'm reading your actions. Your actions are telling me you believe in me because you didn't trade me, right? And you think whatever role I may put in, whatever, you think that's going to help y'all win the championship.

Absolutely.

So that just gave me even more confidence. You know what I mean? And shit, it worked out.

It definitely did. I think the thing that people don't realize is when you make decisions like that, and so some people who don't understand winning.

Right.

And basketball to a certain extent, but definitely don't understand winning will say, "Oh man, but Brandon Ingram has been an All-Star." Right. "So that was the wrong move." Right. But if you understand winning, what I say is, but they won a championship.

Right.

And so regardless of what your thoughts could be on that topic, they won a championship and that automatically trumps everything.

100%.

And it's funny because I was telling Trav earlier, you know Trav, Travis is my trainer. I was telling Trav earlier, I said, Kuz coming today. He like, oh, Kuz is coming today. I forgot. I'm like, yeah. He's like, damn, that's dope. And then he goes into this whole, he goes into this whole spiel about your time with the Lakers.

Yep.

And he starts discussing that move.

Right.

And the reality is the one thing that we discussed, and you said it, I'm not sure that team still wins if they keep B.I. over you because of the skill sets. Like, all of these pieces have to fit in. Have to. And what you brought to that team, you were like, you and KCP were the shooters. Like, y'all had Danny Green. Danny was kind of up and down that year, but you and KCP were the constants in shooting. And I'm not sure, especially at that point in the career, Like, be I now, he'd knock it down left and right. But at that time, he was getting it and driving right.

Right.

And I don't think people realize how impactful that move was. Because if that never happens and this team doesn't win, that y'all team don't win a championship, what does that look like for Bron? Are the Lakers as an organization still honorable to Bron? You know, what does that look like for AD? It's like, are they crushing him because they haven't won a championship yet? And I don't think people realize how moves, certain moves play into that. Like they'll never give you credit for that championship, but I recognize it.

No, I appreciate that.

I recognized how you went from, oh man, I need to score, score, score, score, to passing up shots. I recognize how you went from doing so much off the dribble to like, nope, my role is to shoot this ball. I recognized the winning plays and I hit you and I said, yo, I'm watching you play. You've changed. Like it was a total 360. And I'd imagine, and you can tell me, I'd imagine Bron and his tutelage and learning from him has something to do with that.

Well, I think for me, like you kind of hit it on the head, right? You can put, we're talking about winning championships right now. You know, the average fan, you know, they look at just shit on paper, right? Paper don't tell the whole story. Chemistry is, chemistry and fit are the most important things to win a championship, right or wrong? What would you say?

Right? It's more important than talent. You have to have talent. You could put, you could have— If it don't fit, don't matter.

You could put 4 All-Stars on a team, And on paper it looks like, oh shit, they're gonna win a championship. But how do you know? Is that third or fourth All-Star that you bring in, is he willing to now act like a fourth option?

Facts.

You know what I'm saying? Like me, I was willing in my first two years in league, my second year in league, I averaged 19 and 5. Like that's loud numbers for a second year player.

Absolutely.

Right? But I don't play basketball for that shit. Like, I play basketball to win and win games. And whatever role I got thrust with, one, I'mma do it because one, I'm on LeBron James' team. Let's keep it 100 right now. Like, you're on that team and you see that man and him being a professional, like, you're gonna fall in line because it's a certain excellent standards. And you don't want to let somebody down that cares so much about winning and this, like, you want to be part of that too, right or wrong.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying? So, you know, for me, I don't, you know, I always feel a certain type of way. I did feel a certain type of way. I'm at peace now. I don't care. You know, you didn't win, you didn't do this. I was the third leading scorer on an NBA championship team.

Absolutely.

How many people saying that? Not many.

Not many.

But granted me being selfless and having no ego in that situation, 'cause it couldn't have been easy. I could have just, just ran with the excuse, oh, you know, they ain't give me a fair shot and I didn't do this and I do that. But if you know me and you know me personally, I'd tell you that was the best thing that ever happened to me in my career. I was a player that all I looked like, you said it first, I was looking to score. I was looking to get a bucket, do this, that, but I didn't do shit else. Didn't wanna defend, you know, didn't really put too much effort in rebound even though I was a really good rebounder in college. Didn't always make the right pass, tunnel vision, but going through that situation, that made me a better basketball player. And everybody in the world saw that last year. I was doing everything, you know what I mean? So I always look at things from a positive standpoint, 'cause there's no point to dwell on shit. There's no point. And that was probably one of the best things that ever happened to me in my career. Yeah. Like just being in that situation, Lakers keeping me, me realizing, oh, there's more to basketball than just this. And then ultimately winning a championship with the Lakers. So that's history.

You're then traded to the Washington Wizards, which you just finished your first year there. How was your first year with the Wizards and moving to the Eastern Conference just overall? How was that for you?

You know, it was a lot different, you know, going from, you know, an organization as the Lakers magnitude to another organization. That was my first time ever getting traded, being in that type of situation. So not really knowing what to expect. And there's always the bumps in the road and things you have to adjust to, you know, but, you know, I think it was a great learning year for me. Like people look to me as like, you know, I wanted me and KCP, we came there, we won championships. We were only winners on that team. And you know, to go there and people like respect what you say, not saying people in LA didn't on the team, but you know, I'm the young dude.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying?

No doubt.

I got too much respect from like just an OG standpoint. And it was hard for me a little bit to like, you know, maybe get on Bron, get on Rondo, you know, say something to AD. These are fucking people I grew up watching, you know what I mean? But to come to this situation, it's like, Kuz, what you think? You know, what you think about this, the physical? What are we doing? You know, what's missing? Like those type of things, like that's invaluable to have. That's more important than anything to me. 'Cause like, I love to feel a part of things and— Yeah. You know, just learning and taking everything I've implemented in my career from, you know, those learning situations, but also now being to show myself and show my ass off. It was a success, but there's more. That was a small win, but there's more big wins to accomplish, you know, 'cause losing sucks. You know, be honest with you. Like we had a—

Oh no.

Yeah, you know, losing is not fun.

Yeah.

You know, so I'm optimistically taking that for a win for myself, but it still doesn't sit right. 'Cause you don't win. If you don't win, you don't get to the playoffs. Yo, it's a shitty season. Nobody wants to be done in April, you know, but we'll figure it out.

No doubt. What, I absolutely know what losing feel like. We won 15 games 2 years ago.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

And everybody destroying you. I definitely get it. But what, What needs to happen for y'all to change that? Like, you know, brought in a point guard in Monte, who's very good point guard in this league. Brad coming back healthy, signing his new deal. Congrats to Brad. I always talk about—

My brother Brad Bill, real one.

Love to see guys get their money.

Yep.

Like you go through a lot in this business, ton of money being made. Love to see guys get their dues. So congrats to Brad. You got obviously you coming back in with another year under your belt. Porzingis, who y'all brought in last year, who I thought rediscovered himself quite a bit.

Yeah.

I think he'll, you know, that'll be a huge help to y'all. But what needs to happen to kind of bring that all together and start competing in the East for y'all?

You know, it's all about chemistry. You know, we starting that early. We're having a mini camp, you know, we're getting together. That shit is important. And that's all I know. 'Cause like once you win, that's all you really know. And I know from, you know, when we won a championship with the Lakers, everybody was cool, everybody was close. You know, we had amazing chemistry and that's one, the most important thing. And two, we just gotta stay healthy. Like, you know, at a point in time for most of the season, we were like, you know, top 8 in the East. But then we had a lot of injuries, a lot of situations, a lot of trades happened. You know, but if we can get Porzingis to be healthy, Brad to be healthy, Brad played about 50 games. You know, we missed Rudy for 35 games. So we have opportunity to do something and it should be a lot of motivation. We got a lot of hungry dudes. Like, Bragg just got paid and he wants to show the world that he's a winner. You don't think he's sick and tired of being, everybody saying like, oh, he's just in DC for the money. Yeah. Oh, he wants to win. You know what I mean? Monte coming over, he wants to show that, yo, I can take another step. Like I'm not just a backup.

Absolutely.

You know what I'm saying? I got steps. Porzingis, KP, he got, yo, I can stay healthy. So like, I feel like when you have a situation like that, where it's guys that have something to prove, the care factor is higher.

No doubt. And going into your 6th year, 6. Crazy, it fly by, fly by. I'm going into year 11. I got drafted yesterday.

Crazy.

Like it fly by. But going into your 6th year, what's some of them goals, personal goals that you wanna reach?

Biggest thing is I just wanna lead and I wanna make others better, make others happier. You know, I feel like this summer's been great for my mental. You know, it's not about putting expectations on yourself. It's about controlling what you can control. And I know that I can make others better. I know I can make people feel good and also I can lead. So if I can do that, everything that I want is naturally gonna happen, you know, just organically. So, you know, that's just my focus.

All right, this me you talking to, not none of these old media people that be talking. Now don't give me the bullshit political answer. Now give me some of them personal goals. Nah, that's a real goal, bruh. I need some personal goals. Like, I'm— That's a real goal. What's this mark I'm trying to get? I'm trying to be an All-Star. I want to be All-Defensive Team.

I definitely need that.

I may want to be Defensive Player of the Year. I know that award got my name written all over it, 'cause I should have got it this year, but then I got fucked up. So, you know, but like, I need some of them goals.

No, I definitely need that All-Star for sure. I need that 100%. I mean, I already got a ring. So if I'm an All-Star and a champion, what are you gonna tell me? You think I wear crazy shit now?

Boy. That sounds familiar. Don't let me win the fucking championship.

Do not let me be a fucking all-star. I'm telling you right now.

As you should, by the way.

Appreciate that.

As you should. Approach everything like that. I think you do. But I have an appreciation for guys in this league. Like, I feel like you come in this league and you're kind of taught, to back down. Like you're taught like, oh man, there's this hierarchy and you need to respect that hierarchy. Like I remember me coming like, fuck that. Like, no.

No.

Last year, don't let me win a championship. And I'm telling y'all, we gonna win a championship. I have a huge appreciation for guys like standing in and standing on who they are, you know? And like I told you from the very beginning, you in fashion, like, It speaks.

Right.

Like you said, it's art. It talks for you.

Right.

I don't know if I'm— I feel like you know that. I'm sure you know that, but it does. And as someone, like I told you, I admire it because not many people have that confidence that like, "Oh no, this is what I'm doing." And it's cool.

I mean, for me, it's just like, I just, I'm a man, you know what I'm saying? Like I was always taught like, yo, you gotta stand on what you believe in and what you do. You know, if you don't, what else you gonna stand on? So, you know, that's just what I come from. So like the things that I do, the things that I wanna do, like it's what I wanna do. It's not what you wanna do. It's not what you want me to do, you know? 'Cause that's not gonna make me happy. You're not going to the grave with me. So why do I care what you think? Or why am I backing down or closing my light off because you're not comfortable with it?

Mm-hmm. Nah, for sure. And before I get you outta here, I feel like this thing is all over the place today. So I mean, I recently put out a tweet.

Uh-huh.

And it was, number one, how do you feel about comparing errors? This era— It's oblivious.

To that. It doesn't make no sense.

I think it's ridiculous.

It makes no sense because like you cannot compare to '60s. And granted, I did see what Jerry West said and I love Jerry West. He's an OG and he's a savage for what he said. 'Cause that's some real shit. You know what I mean? Listen, you got it.

You got it. Ain't nobody saying nothing back to Logo.

Oh, you definitely don't.

You got him, champ.

No, no, sir. But it's certain things you can't prepare. Like, and I'm not trying to disrespect nobody, but like the point guards of today are unbelievably talented. They're way more elite than any point guard in the history of any, like, you know what I'm saying? From an athletic standpoint, granted, you know, Magic Johnson. Yes, he's coming in this era and he's whooping ass straight up.

Any era.

In the air, he whooping ass. Isaiah Thomas, he's whooping ass. You know what I mean? Allen Iverson, he's whooping it. It's all relative. So you're just, you're just thieving the joy outta a lot of things when you just compare and you wanna like do that. Like it doesn't make no sense. Like, like I saw your tweet, you talked about the game was from the free throw line and in, right?

Absolutely.

Y'all just gonna pack the paint. Right? And you're just gonna be on a string defensively.

Right.

But what are they gonna do? Like, granted, they're gonna have a game plan and a scheme too. But y'all have seen that, y'all understand and know how to play that. They in the '90s would never see playing a 4-point line defense.

Absolutely.

They've never seen that before. You guys have seen it. So that's already the advantage. In my eyes, at least.

I agree 100%. Like, you know, people has been, it's a 3-part statement actually.

Right.

And the first part being, I don't understand why people compare Ayers, but when they do, I had a question. Do they take into account the difference in styles? Because there's no way they can be taking into account the difference of styles. Because I am sitting here watching and I was literally sitting, I watched the entire game 5 of the 1998 Finals, Chicago Bulls versus Utah Jazz. And I'm sitting here watching the game and I'm like, man, Rodman is incredible. Like MJ is amazing. Pip incredible. Karl Malone insane. John Stockton, John Stockton, although they had his ass bottled up, something crazy. Oh, for sure. Him and Hornacek had no chance. They had no chance. But, and I'm appreciating all of their greatness, right? But I'm watching it and I couldn't help but say, I just don't understand how you can compare us to this team. Right. Not that Michael Jordan isn't great or the greatest player, or however you want to slice it. It's not taking anything away from that.

Right.

Not one bit. But just the style of basketball alone. I mean, there's a guy catching it at the free throw line, a guy cutting to the corner, and the guy flashing to the post.

Right.

There's no spacing. And so I'm watching that and I'm like, the point that I was making was, You see what I'm saying? We'll beat this team by 20 and we'll beat them by 40. The actual point that I was making is, and that's why it's dumb to compare eras.

It's dumb. And then it's also play styles and it's officiating. Well, are we gonna play with hand checks or are we gonna play freedom of movement?

Facts.

Right? There's certain teams that can get away with certain things. Like I believe if the Showtime Lakers, they would fucking dominate this era. 'Cause they were, man, I was watching Magic in the '80s, just highlights, like earlier in the summer. People don't realize, yo, he was fast as shit.

He was.

No, no, he was fast as hell. Like he was getting the rebound, pshh, up the court in 3 dribbles. And that's the NBA now, right?

Absolutely.

Right or wrong? Kill. But certain teams might've been a little different. Great. You have great players, whatever. Jordan being this era, he's averaging crazy numbers too, regardless, even crazier numbers.

For sure.

Right? Now it might be a different type of, of if Jordan played in this era, it might be like, yo, ain't nobody touching him. You know, from a point standpoint, a championship standpoint, but you can't compare it. It's just too tough.

That's my whole sentiment. I hope people one day understand that. Do you remember AOL? Are you old enough to remember AOL?

Yeah, You Got Mail. Yeah, of course. Dial-up.

Can you compare AOL to, to high-speed internet today, of today?

No chance.

Was AOL great when we used it?

Amazing.

Okay. The internet great?

Amazing.

But just because the internet great doesn't mean AOL wasn't great when it was being used, right?

You can't compare AIM Messenger to DMs, bro.

Why in the fuck can't we do that with basketball? Like, you do not have to minimize Michael Jordan's greatness for LeBron James to be great. You don't have to minimize LeBron James' greatness for Steph Curry greatness. And it pisses me off that people do that with basketball. They don't do that when it comes to a founder of this company and a founder of that company. They don't do that. They only do it when it comes to sports. And you know who do it when it comes to sports? These lousy ass— Draymond Green. Clickbaiters.

The worst.

That's saying stuff for clickbait. That's making terrible comparisons so they got something to talk about tomorrow. I'm sick of it. And it's crazy because the only thing they talked about today was the comparison I made. And you actually missed the entire point. They start comparing immediately when I said it. And I knew they would, which is why I framed the statement the way I did. A question, a crazy-ass statement like y'all do, and then the message. And they missed the question and the message and just saw the crazy-ass statement. So, my brother, I want to thank you for coming on to the show.

Man.

That right there is the new media. Y'all hate it, but you better love it. Don't get Stuck on the wrong side because I'm telling you, a lot of these guys are getting caught on the wrong side of it. And you can come over now before we close the door. My dog, I appreciate you coming on the show, man. You the man, bro, appreciate you. By the way, Kuz is launching a podcast. He got too much shit to say, y'all. Kuz like a young OG and y'all don't get to hear him often because he just give you a little bit, then he just slide to the back and keep watching. But Kuz got a podcast coming for y'all because he got a lot to say. Young OG, Kuz, Book, y'all gotta watch out for them guys. They know a lot and they just be trying to play y'all like they don't know a lot. So y'all look out for Kuz podcast. It's gonna talk about fashion, it's gonna talk about basketball, it's gonna intertwine all of those things. Kuz podcast coming. I appreciate you coming on the show, brother.

My man.