Kyrie’s return, NBA COVID outbreak + Matt Barnes interview | The Draymond Green Show

Happy holidays, everybody, and welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. This is our 6th episode. Think it'll be another great episode. I have my, a big bro of mine, a guy who I played with, won a championship with, but more importantly, a guy who I've had respect for forever. Love the way he went about his career. Love the way he's going about life after basketball. And dominating and trailblazing a path for myself in this space and podcasting and what he's done. And at the other half of All the Smoke, Matt Barnes, who I will have as a guest, a super, super, super insightful interview as Matt always is. I think, you know, what you'll take away from this interview Hopefully is what I always take away from Matt when I hear him speak is number one, hopefully people will learn how to continue to separate the basketball player from the person. As someone who deals with that a lot, I actually posted on my story the other day and I just put LOL, some guy saying like, Draymond's a really nice— We were in New York actually. And I think it was one of the, guys who was probably standing outside the hotel. Said, "Draymond is a really nice guy off the basketball court." And you know, the reality is people meet you on the basket— or they don't meet you. People get to know what they think they know of you from watching you do your job and play basketball and kind of have this perception of who you are as a person. And I think it's always a bit skewed because the reality is most people's job, they don't compete. Head-to-head with someone like we do. But I think in all jobs or most jobs, there is competition. You know, whether it's the competitor you're competing against as far as other companies who's in your space, whether it's you trying to get some award throughout the ranks of the company, whether it's trying to move up, I think there is always competition, but it's not quite head-to-head and so direct as us who's, I'm trying to destroy my opponent. Like I want you to know I'm trying to take your heart.

I'm mentally trying to destroy you.

And I am very, very upfront and direct about that. I'm not trying to hide that. And I think in most fields, that's probably a little different. So when you're watching a game or you see someone like myself, like a Matt Barnes, you kind of had this perception of who you think this person is. And a lot of the times it's as far away from what you actually think as it possibly can be. And so I hope people leave the interview with Matt, if you haven't tuned into All the Smoke and realize how smart of a guy he is, how well-spoken he is, how thoughtful Matt Barnes is, that you will leave this episode of the Draymond Green Show with that understanding of Matt Barnes. But like I said, even deeper in understanding that who you see on basketball courts, on football fields, I think Ndamukong Suh is another one, a guy who, who I have a great relationship with, who, you know, you've seen have incidents on the field. He's had some nasty moments with people on the field. And you think like, man, Ndamukong Suh's a bad guy. Yet this guy is an engineer, a legit engineer. Not like someone who's just like went into a space. Like, no, this guy went to school for engineering. Extremely smart, extremely incredible person. Extremely incredible businessman, but yet you've seen him on the field and you think like, "Oh, this is a nasty guy." So I said all of that to say, hopefully leaving this episode, you will understand that what you see on a basketball court, what you see on a football field, what you may see of Elon Musk in the media and create your opinions is you're watching someone do their job. And if I came to watch you do your job, What would I think of you then? You know, would I think the same thing I thought of you before? Probably not because we are all a little different in our work environment. So hopefully you'll come away from this episode with a little bit of that. And I'll save the topics of the interview with Matt Barnes for the actual interview. And around the association, as we always like to start off, this, our episodes, just with things that's going on in the NBA is, of course, should be the number one thing on this show, I think. Man, COVID, which seems like this thing has been going on forever now. And the reality is I think this thing will go on forever. I think at some point we will learn to live with it. I think at some point it won't be as big of a deal when someone does test positive or someone is a little sick, I don't think it'll be as big of a deal as it is today. But I also said that a year ago, that this thing isn't going anywhere and one day we're gonna learn to live with it. A year later, I still have those same thoughts. I don't think this thing is going anywhere. I got that part right. Yeah.— Definitely got that part right. Things definitely not going anywhere, it's here to stay. But I'm not quite sure I got the part right yet that we will learn to live with it. And the reason I'm not quite sure that I got that part right is for two reasons. Actually a few reasons, but one being— We're once again seeing NBA games postponed due to COVID outbreaks. And— I definitely understand why the games are postponed because you're now losing guys. For instance, on Brooklyn, you have James Harden, you have Kevin Durant, you have Bruce Brown, you have LaMarcus Aldridge, James Johnson, and I'm missing a few guys, but you actually, yeah, I'm missing a few guys for sure because I think they have like 10 guys on the list, but we can just stop at Kevin Durant and James Harden.— and we can just stop there. And the reality is stats, when you're talking the Brooklyn Nets, you're talking Kevin Durant and James Harden if you're going to see that team play. Obviously, Kyrie Irving has not played the entire season, which we will touch on as well. But when you're going to see that game, like, those are the guys that you're really going to see. I mean, that's just the way it is around the league. And those guys are out, but not only are those guys out, because I think if it was just those two and everyone else was healthy, the league will keep going and they will continue to have games. But the fact that you have so many guys out and those two, you see the league as of yesterday or today, yesterday, they implemented a rule where you can sign replacement players. If you have guys on the COVID list, if you have a guy out, you can sign one. If you get the two guys, you can sign one. Then you get the three guys, you have to sign two. You get the 4 guys, you have to sign 3, and so on and so forth. But what I do understand is that if Kevin Durant and James Harden are out and you're just signing replacement players, that's not really the product people have in mind when they're talking about going to see a Brooklyn Nets game. And so I do understand why those games have been postponed. On top of the most important reason being just to try to stop the spread, try to stop that outbreak amongst that team and spreading throughout the league and to other teams. That being the number one thing. And then what I just spoke on being number two. But when I say we would be able to live with this thing, what I mean by that is, if someone had the flu, Jordan Poole, for instance, is in the protocol for our team. Wiggins just went into the protocol for our team. If Andrew Wiggins and Jordan Poole had the flu, we wouldn't be testing for it because we learned to live with the flu. If they had the common cold, we wouldn't be testing for it because we've learned to live with the common cold. It's just what the word— to start the— The flu. I can't even remember the name of the thing. It is, it's common. It's now a common thing. So we've learned to live with those things. And when I say we will learn to live with COVID and where I say I got that part wrong is because we're still canceling games. We're still postponing games. We're still testing guys to see how long they have COVID. And once they're COVID-free, return 2 negative tests, they can return back to the team and to the facility. And all of these things, which means we still have not learned to live with it. And the reason we haven't is because we're still testing for it. We're still removing people when they come, when they test positive. And I don't think this is going anywhere. So if it's not going anywhere, in 8 years someone tests positive for COVID, are we still testing for COVID in 8 years like we are today? And if someone tests positive for COVID in 8 years, are we still removing them like we're removing guys? Or are we still postponing games like we're postponing games in 8 years? Because then you have to ask yourself, especially if it's that far out, did we learn to live with it or is that just the new normal? And so I'm kind of in this space right now of like, is our new normal going to be testing forever? And once someone tests positive for COVID, removing them from— Yeah. Life as we know it? Would that be our new normal? And would that be considered living with this thing? Or will it be like everything else where we kind of just go on and if you don't feel sick, you go on about your day, you know? And if you feel a little sick, depending on what that is, you know, someone has a cough, a little cough, they don't really remove themselves from daily life. You know, if someone has the flu, you're kind of stuck in the bed. And so you're automatically removed, but you know, this is a little different. And so does it become our new normal where we're testing and we're removing people way, you know, years from now? Or do we learn to live with it? And just like any other sickness or virus, if you show symptoms, you kind of get checked out, you lay low, you do, you know, you do the thing, you take medicine, like all these other things that we do in life when it comes to sicknesses and diseases and viruses. Yeah. Will that be our new normal? I don't know. It's very interesting. But I must say, I definitely thought we was past this part of it and we're not. But speaking of COVID and we also talked, spoke on the Brooklyn Nets, Kyrie Irving, Brooklyn Nets said they are letting Kyrie Irving play in away games, not in New York, which could be the Knicks.— or in states or in Canada, or which is a country, where their rules aren't the same. Think in California, in order to play in California, I who play for a California team has to be vaccinated. But if you're a visiting player, you can COVID test and you don't have to be vaccinated. I think that is our rule. Um, actually, I, I don't think, I know for certain. That is our rule. So, and you know, Kyrie will be able to play when the Brooklyn Nets come to, come and visit us here in San Francisco. But they're allowing him to play away games. And they said it was due to the amount of injuries and dropping Kevin Durant's workload, which has been, I mean, insane. By the way, Kevin Durant, like you can't tell me this dude had Achilles surgery. I don't believe it. This man is, and obviously I know he did. Spent time with him post-Achilles surgery. But it's hard to believe Kevin Durant had Achilles surgery at the way he's playing. I mean, at the level that he's at every single night, the minutes he's playing, like, that's insane. So just wanted to throw that out there. But I don't know. I mean, I think you obviously want Kyrie Irving a part of your team. I don't, you know, part-time, full-time. Does it work part-time is the question. Like, how does that work in the playoff series where, you know, you could be on the road for 4 games and at home for 3 games? You know, how does that work out? From a chemistry standpoint, how does it work where a guy could be missing from a team for 2 weeks on a 12-day road trip? Then you come home from that 12-day road trip, you have 2 road games, and then you go back on the road for 2 games. It's like, how do you build continuity, the familiarity? Amongst the group? How does that work out? I think those are some of the questions that people have. And, you know, we'll see how it works out. But like I said before, if you have Kyrie Irving, you can have Kyrie Irving available, I understand making Kyrie available. You know, they are a completely different team with Kyrie. And we all know Kyrie is a once in a lifetime, a generational talent, especially with the way he handles the ball and finishes around the rim.

Mm-hmm.

One of the shippers 50th guys we've ever seen in our league for certain. So you got Kyrie, I understand adding Kyrie. So we'll see how it goes because like I said, those questions that I just posed, they are a reality and those are the challenges that they'll have to face, but we'll see how it goes. And then also around the association, we recently played in Toronto and their crowd's at 50% again. Yeah. Obviously totally different country. So they're probably under the guidance of their government and asking them to reduce their attendance to 50% again. I can't quite foresee that being a thing around the league throughout America. I just, I don't think so. And maybe that goes back to maybe we are learning to live with it, you know? And maybe, you know, we're starting to just realize what some of our new normals are. The 50% crowd thing, It was a little weird. You know, you, I mean, to see that, obviously I didn't play in the Toronto game, but to see that and, you know, it's a little traumatizing. You know, you go from the crowds that we were in, in, you know, pre-COVID to what we went through through COVID from the bubble to, I mean, at one point last year we had family in the building, like 100 people in the building to, 1,000 people or whatever the progression was, to now see this thing drop back to 50% is like, whoa. Like, it's a little traumatizing because as an athlete, as a basketball player, I mean, essentially an entertainer, like that's what you do. You entertain crowds, you feed off the crowd, you feed off the energy. And all of a sudden it drops back to 50% and it's like, oh man. Like, here we go with this again. You know, not this again. You know, we've seen enough of this. And then you think about the business side of it. I think when you look at the NBA and they pulled it off, so kudos to the league office, but they did everything in their power to get the season back on the normal schedule. And we did that. And we're back on a normal schedule like we were pre-COVID. And I know the ramifications that COVID had on the league. I know what it did to the scheduling. And so to think that there would be another stoppage or—

Stoppage.

Some other delays, I just can't really foresee it with everything that's going on to get through or to get back to somewhat normal for us, which it's been, I must say, up until the Toronto game. I just can't really foresee it going back to where it was. And then also the amount of opinions, or I mean, We've all heard everyone's opinion now at this point on what the shutdowns did, what shutting down the economy did, what shutting down this business and that business did, the effects that it had on us as a whole, as people. I just really can't foresee it going back to where it was or some type of shutdown or some type of pause, you know, throughout the league. I really just can't foresee that. And I hope it doesn't end up there, you know, but you know, I think, you know, we all know this outbreak throughout not only our league, but throughout the NFL as well. It's been pretty substantial and it's not one guy, it's not two guys, it's not 10 guys. If I'm not mistaken, I think the NFL has 130 guys on the COVID IR list. That's a ton of guys. And then you look at the amount of guys that's on the NBA list It gets interesting and it's definitely getting a little dicey. So we'll see what happens. Like I said, I hope it doesn't happen. I hope we can continue to play. I hope we can keep everyone healthy. And I just hope we can figure this thing out and kind of figure out like, what is living with COVID As we know, like I said, it's not going anywhere. It's mutating more than it's going away. What happens? I don't know. It's interesting though. And hopefully, you know, we can continue to move through life. We can continue to figure out what we're figuring out, what we need to figure out. And if living with this will be our normal, hopefully we can figure that out as well. If that's just going to be our new normal. So if you follow me on Instagram, you may have saw on my story that I said I needed to speak on this situation with Kevin Durant. Mm-hmm. And this young kid, Jayden Moore, I think the kid's name is Jayden Moore. Everyone's saying, "Oh, KD's catching backlash for going at it with another kid." And it really pissed me off. And the reason it pissed me off is because Kevin Durant catches backlash for criticizing, I'm not sure how old the kid is now, but apparently this video is from when he was in the 6th grade. Yeah. So let's say the kid's in the 8th grade, maybe even the 9th grade. Kevin Durant catches criticism for criticizing a 6th grade basketball player, 7th grade, 8th grade, whatever it is. And I think that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. And here's why. Be upset the day that the all-time greats won't talk to you. To the young kids, be upset the day that the all-time great doesn't care to speak up on the kid who is doing a move in a game that is not fundamentally sound, that is a travel and a double dribble and whatever else you want to say it is. It breaks a lot of rules. And it was a nice looking move, it's great. If the kid's goal is to, play and won, like a lot of our goals were when we were growing up. And one was in, you had Hot Sauce, you had R.I.P. Escalade, you had Bone Collector. You had all of these guys who was incredible, but it wasn't NBA basketball, nor was it fundamentally sound basketball. A lot of it was travels, double dribbles, throwing the ball off the heezy and all of these things.

Yeah.

That they were doing while playing, it was a show. The game of basketball becomes a show when it's played the right way. That's when it really, when you're playing at the level that Kevin Durant is playing, myself, other guys in the NBA. Coach Steve Kerr always says, "The show happens, guys, when we play defense and we take care of the ball." That's when the show happens. The show doesn't happen because this kid can do like a behind the back spin, wrap it around. Travel move. That's not the show. That's not what's going to get that kid to the NBA. And so for Kevin Durant to catch criticism for saying the move stinks is ridiculous. And I have to commend the kid for his response because that's what his response should have been. His response should be, thank you for the criticism, Kevin Durant. For even caring to speak up on my move, Kevin Durant, for having an interaction with me about me, Kevin Durant. I mean, that actually should be a lifelong goal, the fact that that kid who probably aspires to be Kevin Durant has Kevin Durant commenting on something of his, and yet We live in a world today where, as I said on my Twitter the other night, it's a shame that Jack Dorsey used his brilliance to give everyone a platform to say whatever the hell they want to say, because everyone doesn't know what needs to be said. Everyone doesn't use that platform the way it should be used, because if you use that platform the way it should be used, You're encouraging that kid to listen what Kevin Durant has to say. Kevin Durant's done it. He's doing it. Everything that that kid wants, Kevin Durant's done from a basketball perspective. So why is it that Kevin Durant should catch backlash for saying the move stinks? It does. If you appreciate the game of basketball the way the game of basketball should be appreciated, the move does stink.

Yeah.

Incredible that the kid has that type of footwork and that type of coordination to actually do that. But now let's build up on that with the fundamentals. And so I applaud Kevin Durant for speaking up and saying the move stinks. Let's stop teaching our kids who's going to take over this beautiful game of basketball that we all play, that that's what needs to be done. That's not what needs to be done. But yet that's what Overtime posts on Instagram. That's what all of these publications, they post that on Instagram. And then our kids think, oh, well, that's what I need to do to get posted by these people. I'm going to do that move. And it's ruining the game of basketball. So you know why Kevin Durant gets criticized and catches backlash for saying that move stinks? Kevin Durant gets criticized and catches backlash for saying that move stinks because y'all can't tell it stink. Because people don't know the game of basketball like they think they know the game of basketball. And that's what you enjoy seeing. I hope the kid's feelings wasn't hurt one bit. I hope what that kid took away from that is I will be at the gym at 6:00 AM the next morning before I go to school, working on my fundamentals. It is ridiculous what we are doing to the game of basketball. It is ridiculous that somebody will highlight that move. It's a travel and a double dribble. Why highlight it? Yeah. But I'm happy it was highlighted because now that kid had the opportunity to interact with Kevin Durant, and I hope that kid take that interaction as far as he can take it. And I hope when that kid see another kid in 10 years do that same move, I hope he go on Twitter and say, that shit is trash. The same thing that Kevin Durant said. I'm sorry, stinks. It's what Kevin Durant said. Stinks. I hope that kid go and say that because it was ridiculous that Kevin Durant catches backlash for saying a move that a young kid did that aspires to be him or someone else in this league sucks. That's the world we live in. It's ridiculous. If Kevin Durant can't speak up on a basketball move, who can? And this is for all the young kids out there. You decide what you gonna go work on. Yeah. Are you going to go work on what Kevin Durant said go work on? Because I know he knows what it takes to get there. Are you going to listen to the people on Twitter and Instagram that tells Kevin Durant he's wrong for telling you that move stinks? Oh, and I also forgot to mention, next week will be an exciting show. And the reason it's exciting, because for you, the subscriber, subscribers, the listeners of the Draymond Green Show, next week We will do a holiday edition mailbag episode. And the reason that is exciting, because for you, the fans, the listeners, the subscribers who tune in every week since we've been doing this now, like I said, this is episode 6. So for those who's been tuning in, I thank you. I don't take your ears for granted. I don't take your attention for granted. I don't take, and most importantly, I don't take your time for granted. I really appreciate the subscribers and the listeners. So thank you. And because of your participation and your dedication to the Draymond Green Show, we will do a holiday mailbag episode where put some questions, I mean, we put it out there on Twitter, whether it's the, you can send them to the Volume Sports, you can tag me in it and you may have your episode featured on, or discuss, I'm sorry, you may have your question featured on this mailbag episode and answered. And I'm looking forward to those, and I think it'll be very exciting. Uh, love to engage you guys and kind of hear what you're thinking, uh, and what you want to hear more of as opposed to just what I'm thinking, you know. And so, or what our guests have been thinking. Uh, so want to take some of your questions in, see what you want to hear. So that will be a very fun and exciting episode. But for this week, As you know, our guest, as I spoke on before, who I am extremely honored to have on this show, like I said, championship brother of mine, but even further past the championship, just a big bro who I look up to, who gives me advice, who I still talk to pretty frequently today. Excited to have him on the show and welcome Matt Barnes to the Draymond Green Show.

Hello.

Matt Barnes, my brother. Welcome to the Draymond Green Show.

Man, appreciate you having me and congratulations on the show, man. I love that you're in this space. I knew it would only be a matter of time.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Now after, you know, after watching how you and Stack doing it, I always tell people when I came on to y'all's show, I felt like I just talked about everything. And part of the reason why I talked about everything is 'cause y'all make that a safe space to get whatever it is that you want off your chest. Share whatever it is, whether it's basketball, whether it's life, whatever it is, let's talk about it right here. And so I think y'all have done a special job. And what y'all are doing is creating a path for guys like myself who obviously still currently playing, but you know, athletes getting into the space and really owning the content and all the things that y'all have been able to do is special.

So— Thank you.

I appreciate y'all for trailblazing this path, man. 'Cause this, I enjoy this. It's a lot of fun for me.

Yeah, that was really the goal. You know, when I came up with the idea, you know, as you spoke to it, a safe space, you know, normally any kind of conversation, you kind of have to be on edge if you're dealing with the media. And now that we've transformed from athletes to media, I wanted to still have that kind of same connection and energy because, you know, you and I have had several conversations off the record, but I feel like, we can still have those conversations on the record as long as it's a safe space. So yeah, I think we've been able to create, first and foremost, a safe space where guys feel comfortable and we can relate to each other. And I really feel like that's what brings out the best content, you know? So again, I'm excited that you're in this space, 'cause I've just always felt like, you know, outside of basketball, you've got a great mind and you lend so much to so many different fields. So it's dope to, you know, have bro in this space, man. I'm glad, I'm happy for you. Thank you.

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. How the boys, man?

They're good, bro. They just turned 13. Can't tell 'em shit. They got their little mustaches lined up by the barber for the first time. So it's dope, man. I got teenagers now, so it's been a blast. And then Ash, little man just turned 3 2 weeks ago, man. So, you know, I got teenagers and I got a 3-year-old, so it's been fun.

That's beautiful. It's great for Ash too. He try to keep up with them.

Oh man. You know, 'cause he's the young, you know, he's a young, with, you know, my girl has 3 kids from her previous marriage. So we got 6 kids under 13. So he's the youngest. So he's definitely thuggin' it out, pickin' up a few words. I wish he could've probably waited 10 years to pick up, but you know, that's what happens.

Absolutely. No, but obviously you had an incredible career and what we share in common, you were a 46th pick. In the draft, second round pick. And I think, I know for myself going second round, it brought a chip for me, especially, you know, I came outta college, the National Player of the Year over Anthony Davis, over Damian Lillard, over all these guys. And I went second round and I feel like that fueled me. I wanted to destroy every one of those guys that drafted above me. I wanted to destroy, every team that didn't pick me. That fueled me. Was that something that you carried with you through your career? How long could you carry the second round chip until you was kind of over it?

I mean, shit, I still carry it to this day. You know what I mean? I mean, I take the same mindset I had in basketball to business, but you know, being a second round pick, not really getting a chance to even play. I was in Cleveland with John Lucas, one of the first cuts, like maybe 4 practices in, didn't really give me a chance, never let me get into drills or anything. So, you know, I was off to the D-League at the time. But, you know, me coming into the league in '02, it's really back in that day, it was really about a position. You know, in UCLA, I was similar to you. I was Swiss Army knife. You know, I can play anything, but majority of the time I was an undersized power forward, you know? And in 2002, coming into the league, the power forwards are Chris Webber, Antonio McDyess, Kevin Garnett, you know? And I'm 6'7", 210 at the time. So I really felt like I was kind of positionless because of the way I played at UCLA. So it was almost like I had to reinvent myself as a pro. And it took a lot of hard knocks because, you know, again, towards the end of my career and when you came in, it was less about position. It was just more about basketball and IQ. And again, so I had to kind of learn how to be a wing on the fly. So I always knew that I could play defense. So I just played my ass off on defense hoping that that would gimme some time to develop, you know, develop into a wing, which I had to be at, you know, the first 10 years of my career. And then like the last 4 again. The game got smaller, the game got faster, so I was able to move from the 2 to the 3 to the 4 or whatever, sometimes even the 5. So, but to answer your original question, you know, definitely it was a chip that I've had really my whole career. You know, I came into UCLA, we had the number 1 recruiting class back-to-back years, but I was the least heralded recruit. You know, we had Jerron Rush, Ray Young, Dan Gadziori, Draymond Green, so all McDonald's All-Americans. I wasn't, you know, I was playing football at the time, so I wasn't really tripping off the McDonald's All-American type stuff. But, you know, it was always kind of just a grind grind. And you know, if you were to look back at that team with Baron Davis, Earl Watson, Capono, everyone I listed, I would probably be the one that people say, well, is he gonna make it? And I ended up being the one that played the actual longest out of that whole group of names. So it's always kind of just been my mentality again. And I've taken that perspective from playing into this business world and kind of keep that same chip on my shoulder.

Nah, it's definitely fuel, man. Drives you for sure. But speaking of, you just, you spoke on football, that you were playing football. I think a lot of people don't know your football background, your resume. Obviously I've heard, I know all the resume, just sitting on them planes and in the locker room, you kind of get everything. But tell these people about your football resume, man. I don't think they quite understand.

Football is my first sport. I grew up playing football, tackle football in the streets. You know, my dad was in and out of trouble. And would always play Sunday tackle football leagues at the park. So I grew up at the park watching football. So naturally football is my first sport. I really didn't take basketball up until about junior high as far as taking basketball serious, but I was natural at it. It was easily my best sport. Basketball was a lot more challenging than football was. But when I was just thinking, you know, as a youngster, as we're playing, you can't tell no young kid that they're not going pro. So in my mind, all right, am I gonna go pro in football or basketball? And, you know, having a decorated high school receiver, you know, I led the nation in touchdowns my senior year with 28 with a broken toe, kept playing. I was first-team, you know, All-American, recruited by everyone in football. But, you know, when that time started to, you know, go to college, do I want to play both or do I really want to lock in and try to make a real career out of one of them? So I just chose basketball for longevity because at the time, you know, being 6'8", there wasn't too many 6'8" receivers. And, you know, Harold Carmichael, you look back at the old Philadelphia Eagles, Now the NFL, or I'd probably say maybe about 10 years ago, the NFL started looking at basketball players as valuable assets on the football field. You know, you see a bunch of guys that didn't even play football that are, you know, making good money in the NFL now. But again, at that time it wasn't too common. So, you know, again, basketball was a lot more challenging for me. I had to work a lot harder, but that's always something I'm, you know, into was grinding. So I chose basketball and, you know, it ended up working out. It ended up working out well. But, you know, there's not a day that passes, and I know you kind of feel the same way, you're still in the midst of your career, I love football to death and I'm always looking back like, damn, what if I would've went this way? You know, I might've not played as long, but I knew I'd have had a nice splash because, you know, I ran in high school, I ran a 4.39, you know, had a 39-inch vertical. I could really play, I could really catch. I knew how to run routes and, you know, I love physicality. So, you know, football was really my, you know, God-given talent. And, you know, I chose basketball to make a career out of though.

That's interesting. I think for me, I actually, I wasn't that good at football. Like I was a pretty good defensive end. I could lock the edge down and like you wasn't running around the edge. You was gonna have to cut it back to the middle. But I wasn't great. Like I was decent, pretty good. But I didn't think, I thought for me when I stopped playing, I stopped playing after my freshman. So everybody think I played at Michigan State because of those couple clips when I played in the spring game. But I really stopped playing football after my freshman year of high school. And the reason I stopped playing football after my freshman year of high school was because now that I look back on it, I was probably wrong. But from my freshman year to my sophomore year, I grew from 6 feet to the height I am today. And my knees were hurting so bad to where—

I was getting slaughtered.

Yeah. Yes. When we had basketball tryout right after football season, I couldn't run. Like I'm talking about, I'm like jaw, like almost walking up and down the floor. I could not move. And so in my mind, you know, guys had been chopping me down that year. So I was taller, obviously I was growing and getting taller and they were chopping me down. So in my mind, I thought to myself, like, I need to make a decision right now if I really wanna play football or am I just going all in on basketball? This football stuff is messing up my knees. Little did I know I was in the midst of a growth spurt and that's where my knee pains were coming from. But I stopped playing because I thought football was messing up my knees and going into basketball season. I'm like, I love basketball and I think I'm better at basketball than I am at football. So I'mma just stop.

Right.

But so then I played in that spring game. I just knew that that would be my last time in life ever being able, having the opportunity to play football. So I went out there and I asked him like, yo, Coach D, can I play a couple plays in the spring game? And it wasn't serious. It was just like me getting out there to say I did it. And I did it, but I wasn't that good, man. Like I was okay at that time. Like I move well today. I moved well then, but not fluid. And so my routes, like at tight end, my routes weren't great. Like I had good hands, but my routes weren't great. I just didn't move as fluid.

Right.

As I do today. So it was a little different for me.

See, that's interesting because again, I think I looked at football the way you looked at basketball. Like I love football, but I started playing basketball more because again, you know, when you're 13, 14, 15, you're starting to grow. And I just kept growing. I wanna say in junior high, I was like 8th grade, I was about 5'10" and by the start of my freshman year, I was 6'4". So then from freshman year to senior year, I grew up to 6'6". Draymond Green grew to 6'8". So basketball kind of took center stage, but at the same time, like, my love and passion was football. Like, I loved to hit. I didn't mind getting hit. Like, that was my whole thing. And I really kind of felt like, you know, I made a 14-year NBA career outta just being a wide receiver. You know, I get out on the lanes, run the lane, Chris Paul, you, Steph, whoever passed me the ball in the lanes, I finish. And then always everyone always went like, "Why are you so physical?" Or, "Why do you?" And it, to me, it was just that, that football mentality. Like, I love being able to mix it up. You know, at the beginning of my career, we really got to play real defense. You know, when you went across the paint, you got hit with the arm bar. And I loved all that shit. I love when bigger dudes hit me, 'cause I'm gonna try to hit 'em back later. You know what I mean? So in the NBA was kind of my thought process. So again, like, really, I took that football mentality and just applied it to basketball. So it was, again, my true love is football. And, you know, God blessed me and allowed me to, you know, make a career outta basketball off of it.

Nah, it's dope. I think for me personally also, I like, even today, you know, you talk about that physicality, like the NBA soft to me, man.

Oh man.

The NBA is soft. The physic, and the reality is the NFL is starting to get a little soft. It has gotten a little soft too, but I get it. I do understand with all the concussion stuff and like all the type of injuries that guys were having. I get it. Some of the calls I can do without, But I do understand their point of view and like why they're trying to clean the game up because it actually alters a lot of guys' livelihoods or the lives that they live outside of football and after football. So I get it. But to this day, like I still enjoy watching football way more than basketball. Like I watch basketball, but I watch football like religiously.

Yeah. Yeah. So I watch basketball now to watch people I know still. You know what I mean? The homies, you, KD, you know, got Chris Paul, guys I play with, but Sunday Ticket comes on, I'll watch every single motherfucking game. All like, I'll sit in my man cave and watch basketball and smoke a couple joints throughout the day. Everyone knows Sunday, don't fuck with dad. He's watching football. So I'm completely on that same page.

Absolutely. So you then make the decision to go UCLA for basketball, 4 good years at UCLA. You come into the league, you bounce around a little bit, and then you sign with the Warriors. What end up, how did you come across the opportunity to sign with the Warriors?

Oh, just a quick, so G League, Clippers signed me to a 10-day, 2 10-days, make the team. They're ready to, after my first year, so this is 2002, 2003, they're ready to give me a 2-year minimum deal. But this is in the midst of, in the early 2000s when it was, Sacramento Kings and Lakers, you know what I mean? So I'm going to school at UCLA, but I'm from Sac. C. Webb's my big homie, you know, another Detroit dude. So I'm always hanging with him in the summertime, working out with him, White Chocolate. Mike Bibby comes along, Bobby Jackson, those kind of guys. So those are the guys I'm working out with every summer. And I hadn't took the Clipper deal. I was just like, "It's great. I have an opportunity. Let me, you know, let's grind to see if it happen to find anywhere that people that wanna gimme some money." So I go into, and we're working out at the Kings facility every day. And this is when they had Rook Adelman. And he came up to me and asked me what I was doing. I kind of told him about the Clippers situation. He's like, "You know, I think you'd be a great fit here in your hometown. Do you want to come here?" I'm like, "What? Hell yeah." So I end up passing on that 2-year deal, which is crazy. But I took a 1-year deal with Sacramento. And then that's the year they trade Webb to Philly. So then I go with C. I'mma throw in on that trade. I go with C. Webb to Philly and don't get a chance to play for almost 2 years behind Mo Cheeks. I almost end up fucking Mo Cheeks up and I probably never would've got a chance to play basketball, period. Get through that. So I'm at a crossroads after playing one solid year with the, or half a season with the Clippers, a solid half year with the Kings, on the bench for 2 years in Philly. So people are like, okay, you know, that window, my time is ticking. So I'm almost to the point now where I'm like, shit, if, you know, no teams are really calling, I'm doing summertime football workouts with my brother, 'cause my brother was just coming outta college too. So he was getting ready.

Yeah.

To play football as well. So I'm doing, you know, 2 days a week I'm doing football and 4 days a week I'm doing basketball just to kind of see what pops off. My agent had, you know, 10 NFL teams lined up for private workouts. But this is when my college teammate Baron was with the Warriors and he hit me up one day like, "Yo, we're having, you know, a pickup game down here in Oakland. If you're not doing nothing, pull up." I'm like, "Shit, all right." You know, I'm an hour, hour 20. Get dressed, hop in the car, go down there and drive down there. Ended up doing really well. The team was in town. I ended up doing really well that day. And I didn't know at the time that, you know, the coaches in the old practice field, the coach's office can see the floor. So I didn't know Don Nelson was watching the whole time. He comes down after, asks me what I'm doing. I'm just like, you know, to be honest, Coach, phone's not ringing. I'm just, you know, I'm trying to make it. And he's like, you know, I can't promise you nothing. We already have 16 guarantees and our roster is full for training camp. But if you play as hard as you did today, I'm gonna give you a chance. And I was just like, "Shit, that's all I need is like a real chance." So Nelly was the first one to really, you know, after my first, you know, my first years to really like, "Okay, I'm gonna give you a chance to see what you got." So I ended up beating out everyone in training camp. And then 2 guys that had guaranteed contracts, that are non-guarantees, they had contract guarantees for training camp, ended up beating them out. Ended up being like the last, you know, the 14th or 15th guy. And, you know, from there, it was just grinding. And any chance I got, I would go and produce. I'd go play 10 minutes, I'd have 6 points, 7 rebounds, and I'd, you know, guard people and make assists and make plays. So Nelly slowly but surely started trusting me enough to where by midseason, I'm starting. And now they're trying to think, okay, you know, we've signed Dunleavy and Murphy to these deals. We're not really going nowhere. So, you know, I made them feel more comfortable going out and trading those two guys that, you know, that had got deals. And that's how we ended up bringing in in Stack and Al Harrington from Indiana to that team. And then, you know, we tried to get our shit together a little bit and we become the We Believe team in like a month and a half. People don't— people think the We Believe team was like a whole year or crazy. They don't understand that was post-trade. And we started off shitty 'cause Baron was hurt. Jack was getting in— Jack was still in trouble for some other shit he was doing. So we really hit our stride like the last 25 games. And then, you know, into the playoffs we made NBA history. But it was really a short-lived experience. But I say all that to say like it came about because literally my college teammate Baron Davis called me, told me to come play pickup. I impressed Nelly and Nelly gave me a chance.

That's interesting. And so y'all have that last half of the year, play well, beat the Mavericks in the first round, lose to Utah in the second round. What happened the following year? Why didn't that team come back to the playoffs? Why didn't that team continue to trend upwards as opposed to just having that one year?

So before this, Golden State, you know, looking back on it now and you learn the history and you know management and everything, and people don't understand how important management is. Winning starts at the top.

Absolutely.

And as a player, you know, a younger player, you don't really realize that. You look at the players like, "Okay, we're gonna be straight." But winning starts at the top. So Golden State had a history of getting people in and getting 'em out for some reason. They never really paid the right people. They never really built anything. So, What happened was, and it's funny too, 'cause I was just with Kevin Garnett a couple days ago. He came over 'cause we're working on a couple projects, but we started talking about this shit. So we were supposed to trade Jason Richardson and our lottery, or our pick that we had, I'm not sure if it was lottery, but I think it was 'cause we ended up getting Brandon Wright. We were supposed to trade J Rich and our pick to get Kevin Garnett. And so that was, And I didn't really know how— I heard rumors until I finally had KG on the show, and then we really got into it when he was here the other day. So we were supposed to get Kevin Garnett that year, basically for Jason Richardson. So we would've added Kevin Garnett to that young team. And it was funny 'cause we were over here talking the other day, just like, man, you guys were young and wild and off the court wild too. And I loved your energy, but I didn't know if I could've hung with y'all. But it was funny just to hear from his mouth. So he really considered, he said his 3 teams were, He called it that team in Oakland, the Lakers, and the Celtics. And he ended, obviously ended up going with Celtics and winning a championship. So the plan, like I said, the plan was to trade Jay Rich for Kevin Garnett. And Kevin Garnett was supposed to come to that We Believe team that following year. But to slow down a little bit, so the very beginning of that year, my mom is diagnosed with cancer November 1st, which is the beginning of the season. And she dies November 27th. So within 26 days, I find out my best friend in the world is sick. And she's gone not even a month later. So for me personally, obviously I wasn't the best player on that team. That was, you know, BD, Stack, J Rich, Monte, you name 'em. But I was like the heart and soul of that team, you know?

Sure.

So, you know, for me to kind of go down that next season, in my head it's in the clouds, literally the first 3 or 4 months of that season. But what's crazy about that was, again, I had a breakout season with Golden State. Nelly gave me a chance. They offered me a 3-year, $12 million deal at the time. And during the playoffs, I'm hearing, you know, like, "Matt Barnes is gonna get paid. You know, he should be one of these, you know, high 20s, low 30 guys." So I'm thinking like, so I'm hearing that all during the season. And then, you know, once the season's over, Golden State is really quick with their deal. So I think they were just trying to steal me before I can really hit the market. And, you know, the summer, you know, rest in peace, Dan Fagan was my agent at the time. He let a nice high $20 million deal go to Dallas. He was asking for more and they didn't wanna give him more. I was on vacation, didn't tell me. They ended up signing Jerry Stackhouse and Devin George with the money they were gonna give me. I ended up firing Dan and didn't take that deal, but ended up going back for like a $4 million deal to Golden State. So I say all that to say, when I was, when my mom died and I was finally kind of start ready to play in January, Nelly pulled me to the side and said, "I'm glad you didn't take a long-term deal here. Your time here is up." I'm like, "What the fuck, nigga? You know my mom just died, all this shit. Like, what the fuck?" And one thing I always respect about Nelly, he was a straight shooter. There was no bullshit with him. I just didn't understand where it was coming from. And I think because I was in the midst of my mom dying, he was probably mad already in the preseason, obviously, but he couldn't really get on me or show me that because my mom had died. So I was just kind of in and out of it. So once I really felt like I was mentally ready to really get back in the mix, he pulls me to the side and tells me what he just told me. I'm like, "What the fuck? This motherfucker right here?" And bro, I didn't really— I rarely played the rest of the season. So after that, I was out of there.

That's crazy.

But I think the fact that he, you know, that he gave me the opportunity to really get my career on track, which I appreciate. But you know, as younger players, we want to get as much money as we possibly can. If someone's offering you $12 million and you're hearing, you know, high $20s, maybe even $30s, I'm gonna see what that is because we, you know, we know how fast and small our window is. Ended up not working out, taking the $4 million deal and he held that against me, man, unfortunately.

Wow. That's crazy. That's interesting.

Yeah.

But I'll tell you why, I know you just mentioned like, I wasn't the best player on that team or, you know, you weren't the top scorer. You probably weren't top 4 or 5 scorers. But I think the role that you played on every team, I think the role that you played on every team that you were on, including even when you came to the Warriors the second time, was you were an enforcer. You were an enforcer. And I think, and I would love to know how you feel about this, but I don't think a team can win a championship if they don't have an enforcer. You could look at the Milwaukee Bucks, for instance, they bring in PJ Tucker. As an enforcer and boom, just like that, they win a championship. Now it's not an overnight thing, right? Like it just doesn't happen overnight, but they already had a great core group of guys.

Right.

And now, and they needed an enforcer. And I think Bobby Portis was trying to be that for them, but Bobby Portis had never really been an enforcer.

He had been a younger guy who—

It's not the way he's described. Who was kind of looking for his scoring in the league and through Chicago and then with the Knicks, kind of looking for a different thing. And then he gets to Milwaukee. I know he realizes like, dang, there's a lane for that. And let me try to be that because he's naturally a tough dude. Like he ain't no slouch. You ain't bullying Bobby Portis.

Right.

Just naturally a tough dude, but also not a very outspoken dude.

Mm-hmm.

And most enforcers are outspoken or not, or they'll speak out. And Bobby Portis isn't really someone who speaks out. So you bring in PJ, who now takes that team to the next level as an enforcer. And while doing that, he shows Bobby Portis how to do it. You know, because like I said, he's not a slouch. He's not soft at all. Just had never done it before. And then you bring in a guy who has done it and show him the way. And now I think he's taken on that role for that team. But I think there's, I think every team, if you're gonna be a great team, and I would love to hear your feelings, you need an enforcer. You have to have one.

So I completely agree. And I, whether it's an enforcer or glue guy, I think the term enforcer has kind of watered down over the years because the style of the play of the NBA. So when we say enforcer, it's not someone that's gonna go out there and fight people and do this. And, but if you have to, you will. But at the end of the day, it's someone with that energy that's gonna bring it constantly, whether it be in practice in practice or the games. And to me, I look at you as an enforcer. You know, I think you took that role to another level with all the accolades you've been able to acquire over the real. But at the end of the time, when I tell people like, that team is great, just like I was telling you before we talked, like that team was great. That was a really good team, but it's not a dynasty without the tangible thing that you brought to that team day in, day out, practice. I even say the organization, like I felt like it's a mentality that the organization takes on of that particular player. You know what I mean? It's just a no nonsense, no bullshit. We're gonna play basketball. If we need to fight, we could fight, but let's just play basketball type mentality. And you know, the thing about me is, you know, I bounced around my career, but everywhere I went, I played. Everywhere I went, I started or was the first, you know, first guy or second guy off the bench. You know what I mean? And it was always a situation because I kind of feel like management, doesn't really necessarily have a real pulse of the team. They're not in there during practice. They're not in the locker room. They don't see how you create bridges and put out fires. And I think a perfect example was that Lob City team. You know what I mean? 'Cause, you know, Doc and I got into it and I was the first trade 'cause Doc was on some bullshit and he knows it. But I was the first trade because like, you know, I was like, "The fuck would you talk about, Doc? I'm a man. Don't disrespect me. If you, you know, we're gonna have a real problem if you do." I end up getting traded. But the second I get traded from that team, I'm constantly getting calls from CP, JJ, DJ, like, man, we miss you. We've been telling Doc to bring you back, this, this, and that. So there's certain tangibles that you bring as a player when you're that kind of player that don't necessarily always show up on the stat sheets. You know, again, you're not the All-Star, you're not this, you're not that, but very vital to team success, you know. So, um, I completely agree. I really feel like— and there are very few, I feel like, of you guys left in the league because the league is so going in such a different direction now. It's more up-tempo, it's more scoring, it's more points, it's less defense, it's less physicality. But I understand and respect it and appreciate it. But at the end of the day, like I said, I think there's less of those guys, but you could really tell the teams that do still have success in this league have a guy or two like that on the team still.

100%. No, I think, I think you definitely need it. I think also even from the standpoint of like, there are certain things that go on the court and especially, and guys do stuff to your superstar that you can't just let it ride.

No.

And if you don't have that guy on the team, your superstar will probably be one of the most disrespected superstars in the league. I'll say his name because I actually think he's one of the most talented guys in our league. And I got a lot of love for him. Like, that's my dawg. We won a championship together. A gold medal together. Paul George. Paul George does not get the respect he deserves. Paul George is one of the most talented players in our league. He's accomplished a hell of a lot in our league. But I feel like one of the reasons Paul George don't get the respect that he deserves because Paul George be having to fight for himself. And Paul George should never have to fight for himself. I'm sorry.

I know.

But Steph Curry not fighting for himself. And you can say what you wanna say about him. What you think he, uh, I don't think he gonna fight back. He ain't gotta fight for himself, nor should he have to.

You'll never know if he can because someone else is gonna handle it.

Exactly. He, and, and I feel like Paul George, he has to fight for himself a lot. And I don't know any superstar that don't have somebody that's gonna fight for them. And, and, and he don't always have that. And so I just think that's very important, not only to your team, but to the star of your team as well. You gotta have somebody that's putting their neck on the line for that guy, no matter what it is. And like you said, we saw you do that. We see myself with Steph. We saw you do that with CP. We saw you come on the team. When you came on the team, it was like I took a back seat in that role. Yeah. "Like, Matt protecting all of us out here. Like, it's cool." And so I think that's very important. And we see that happening around the league. Like, I sometimes see like a guy hit Trae Young and Trae Young, "Nah, somebody, who coming to take care of this young dude, man?" Right, right.

The same thing.

Who coming to his rescue?

You see that there, you see that with Jayson Tatum. Like, there's a handful of these stars that kind of have to fend for themselves, you know? And that was a role that I embraced. I love, you know, when I went out there, yeah, we would love, who wouldn't love score 30 points a game, but I look forward to, all right, I'mma guard the best player every night. And then I know I got my team's back. You know, that's family. So you fuck with CP, you fuck with Kobe, rest in peace, Steve Nash, Steph, Kev, you, whoever. Like, it's all, it's gonna be a war. You know what I mean? And that was a role that I loved because I, you know, that was one thing I was brought up in my family. My dad was nuts in the streets on drugs, but you protect your family at all costs. You know, I always looked at my teammates as my family. So I always figured like the superstar has enough to do. You know what I mean? I got a chance to play with Kobe. So he was giving to you on both ends, dog tired every game. He should never have to worry about somebody coming at him. You know what I mean?

Absolutely.

And that's pretty much how I got on the team. You know what I mean? Because I came at him. Ron Artest came at him the year before. So he was like, "Fuck these. I'm gonna go get both these crazy motherfuckers to have my back." You know what I mean? So to me, superstars have enough. So you always need that guy or two that can hold it down. Even sometimes when it's not needed, like you said, "Well, I don't know if he's gonna be a—" You'll never find find out because you're gonna have to go through a lot to even know if Steph will fight back or Steph will say something back type situation.

Absolutely. No, and speaking of that, just the toughness, the smoke, you know, you transition obviously as a retiring as a player, you moved into all the smoke. You've been doing a bunch of different things off the court, but all the smoke is where I think you've obviously made the biggest mark 'cause it's the biggest hit It's the show we all listen to. It's the show, you know, you look forward to. I think the guests that y'all bring on, the authenticity of the show is special. And it's named after what I know you and Stack Jack love dearly, All the Smoke. That's a part of who you are.

Right.

But what is your favorite, what's your favorite part of All the Smoke? Or like, what do you love about having that platform that y'all have created?

I think first and foremost, if I speak personally, it was to be able to show the other side of me. You know, because I think there was such, I always had such a, well, I say reputations are earned, whether good or bad, but I think there was such a misconception as who I was as a person while I played. Because you gotta think, you know, social media didn't really hit until the end of my career. I mean, so there was always, "Oh, he's got tattoos, he's this, he's that, he's always fighting." So people are like, you know, "He's probably some dumb athlete." And then when people start hearing me speak, they're like, "Oh, shit, he can hold a conversation. Oh, shit, he's intelligent." So I think really first and foremost, kind of shed the stigma that there was about me is what I appreciate most. But then when I, you know, I look at the bigger picture, I think it's the first thing you said was creating a safe space for us. I think for so long, our stories have been told by other people. Not even, most of the time, not even people that are the same ethnicity as us. You know, other people trying to tell our stories that never walked a day in our shoes or can even put our shoes on. Mm-hmm. I think that All the Smoke has allowed us to be able to change the narrative overall, and for people to, you know, feel safe to be able to say stuff they may not be able to say, but they want to say, you know? So I just think we've created a safe haven. And I think one thing that has also added to our success is, like you said, people know Stack and I, and I think that we haven't— Sometimes coming into this media space, and you'll learn once you're done, but I don't think it'll affect you because you know who you are, is some of these people come in and change who they are. To fit in at particular networks or situations. And that was never my thing. Like, I'm at ESPN, and I see guys that I'm with that are kind of moving up sometimes. But I know you have to say some shit that as players, we know we shouldn't be— You know, like, "Nigga, you was a player. What are you talking about?" And I see some guys that are crossing that line saying that. But when they say it, they're rewarded, and they move up.

Yes.

And to me, it's just like, you know, I'm not using— I'm using ESPN as a platform to have my face on, spit some game, and just continue to network from there. So I realize that this media space, like I said, I'm not, obviously I'm not a player no more, but I still have a mentality of a standpoint of like, I know what it's like to be in the trenches. I know what it's like to be in the Western Conference Finals, in the Finals. I know what it's like to be in the Eastern Conference Finals. I know what it's like to go through losing streaks, winning streaks. So it always bothered me when media would speak to shit they really don't know. You know, Stephen A. Smith is the guy in our profession, but there's only so much real shit he can give you because he's never really been in the trenches. You know what I mean? So he can give you the analytics and the numbers and this, this, and that, but he can't tell you what it's like to have to shoot, you know, 2 free throws with 1 second to go to tie the game up. You know what I mean? So I've always taken the additive is, you know, although I'm not a player no more, I'm not gonna be someone in the media that's gonna sell my brothers that are playing short. And I'm not knocking nobody because to each his own, but I feel like there has been some guys that have crossed over into this media space and, you know, although they're talented in it, they said some things sometimes where I'm just like, "Bro, you were just a player not too long ago. This is crazy to hear from a former player." So that's kind of been my thing is like, to me, it's staying authentic and true. It's two things, you know, Jack and I have been able to do, and I think that's why we've been able to win in this media space. Yeah.

I think that's beautiful. And I agree 100%. You know, I see guys as well. Like I called out Kendrick Perkins on KD's Instagram Live right after we won the Olympics. And in part due to, you talk the enforcer, right? Like we just talked about the enforcer on a team. That was Perk. Like that was the only, I mean, I mean, let's face it. Like that was the only way Perk signed his huge deal. Like don't get me wrong. Perk was playing good basketball next to KG in Boston. They won a championship, but his role on a team was to be an enforcer. And some of the things that he said, especially when we were over there at Olympics, I'm like, bro, like you act like you weren't just one of us. You know, you act like— Yeah. The things that you saying, like, come on, my man. Like, and you went to battle with Kevin Durant. Like, Kevin Durant was once a reason that you were on a roster. Like, I didn't like that. And that's why I called him out. You know, I'm not going to just dislike something and talk about it behind his back. No, I want you to know how I feel. And that's why I said, Yeah, Kendrick Perkins. I don't remember what I said verbatim, but that was why, you know? 'Cause I feel like guys do get in this space and it's not just Kendrick Perkins, by the way. That was just my example of when I spoke up. But a lot of guys do it. And I agree with you 100%, they move up.

Mm-hmm.

But for me, like one of my biggest things when I first start going on Inside the NBA, I want you to leave that particular segment with a better understanding of what's actually going on on the court that fans don't really have. And I know they don't really have it because I read my tweets from time to time. Or I read my Instagram comments every blue moon. I don't read 'em often 'cause there's really no upside.

Too much negativity, right? Other than I'm bored.

And I'll scroll through them, and I know people don't know what the hell they're talking about. And so I want you to be able to watch me speak and leave that segment with a better understanding of what's actually going on, as opposed to what people already truly have in their understanding, which I don't think most people—

Mm-hmm.

People think they can just watch a couple games per week and really understand the game of basketball. When I study this—

Or play it.

Yeah.

Or play it.

Yeah. I study this game daily. I work on this game daily. As other people doing their job. But yet you can't go to their job and do their job just by doing it once or twice a week. But they actually think they can play and study and talk about ours. And it's mind-boggling to me. And so because that won't change, let me help you better understand this game. And that's what I, that's one of the things I want I want people to take away from me when I'm on TV speaking on the game of basketball. I also want to be critical of players. And there's a way of being critical and the balance that I try to find, there's a way of being critical and saying what needs to be said and understanding that at the end of the day, I will always be one of you. Mm-hmm. I will always be one of the guys, a part of this brotherhood, a part of this fraternity that we say we have. We talk about this brotherhood.

Right.

We talk about the fraternity, but we don't protect the brotherhood and we don't protect the fraternity.

Right.

And I know I'mma always be a part of that. And because of that, I understand how it feels when people just run off crushing you. Now, again, there's a way to be critical, and there's a way of crushing someone. You don't just have to crush a guy.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And I think one big moment I had on TV was, it was a whole segment. I think I had 4 clips at halftime and we were, it was a Nuggets game. And I went at Jokic's defense. I'm like, if they're gonna ever be a good team, he's the back line of the defense. He has to be good defensively. And I showed 4 clips, him not rotating over as the low man, him not moving. One, like 4 clips. And I was very critical of him. He came up to me that following year and he said, "Hey, I," like he said something along the lines like, "I saw what you said about my defense," or something. I like, you were right, or I appreciate it, or something he said like that. And he said, I've gotten better. I said, you've 100% gotten better. I've been watching you this year and you've 100% gotten better. And that was a big moment for me because—

That's dope.

This TV thing is new and I want to do it and I enjoy doing it. But I also, I gotta, these are my, these are, I work with these guys. Like I go to battle with these guys. These guys can possibly be my teammate one day. And I have to understand that. And so I try to find that balance. And that was a big moment for me, 'cause I was extremely critical of his defense. But you right, you right. Guys get lost in that. They start completely bashing players and they lose themselves. And I don't like that.

I think it's important because you can be critical without disrespecting. And I think that's the fine line that good commentators can use or good analysts can use. You know, because like you said, at the end of the day, what we're saying, we know it's amongst our brothers and they're gonna hear it. So we're saying stuff for them to use to put in their bag or to get better with. And I think the fact that, like you said, the MVP of the league heard what you said, applied it, and got better instead of, you know, sulking about it or this dude's hatin'. I mean, I think sometimes what gets lost is social media's given so many people a voice. Oh, Draymond's up there hatin' or Matt's up there hatin'. And then it's never that. That because it's not in us. We don't have no reason to hate. I mean, I do Kings, you know, I do halftime or I do pregame, halftime, and postgame for the Sacramento Kings now. And it's similar, you know, I'm seeing some of these players out there. And what I'm trying to give these people is just an older, you know, I played this game for a long time and I have a good mind. I wasn't the best, but I have a really good mind to it. So if I can give these people or younger players pieces here and there that are going to help them, You know, that's always the ultimate goal. And then one more thing, you know, Kendrick Perkins, it's funny you mentioned it, 'cause Kendrick is the homie. And when he first got on TV, he and I, like, he would hit me sometimes like, "Big bro, should I say this?" Or, "I wanna say this," or, "I wanna say that." Or when he would say stuff that's kind of like, yo, I would hit him up like, you know, 'cause I wanted to hear his thought process on why you felt like you had to say that. You know, maybe you have a reason that is amongst the we don't know is why you say that. So, you know, I think it's important to kind of have those type of conversations because you can say, now that we're done, or now that he and I are done playing, or even you're in the media space, which that one sentence you say can get blown and ripped out of proportion. So I always think it's important to have context on what people are saying. So—

No, for sure. And just one last thing on that. I think the context is important 'cause what a lot of people, you know, said outlet is going to take 8 words of a 100-word response, and that's what they're gonna post. And the reality is most people don't read, and most people don't do research.

Right.

And so you read those 8 words and you don't go back and read the full transcript, or you read those 8 words and you don't go back and watch the interview. If I take 8 words of a 100-word statement, I can make those 8 words almost look like whatever I want them to look like.

Anything. Anything. And like I said, if you know the media like we know the media, they're gonna air, they're gonna twist on the side of controversy and negativity instead of, you can, you can big, we can talk all day about Steph, how great he is, but we might say something— like you said, unless you hear the whole conversation, like, well, damn, why they hating on— that's his teammate, or that's his friend. Why they hating on Steph? When it's not like that. Like you said, I think we live in a society where we just read headlines because there's so much news coming at us that if we read the headline— and I was even guilty of it, you know, I'd probably say like 3 or 4 years ago, 'cause I didn't have the time. I would read the headline, damn, that's fucked up, and keep it moving, but have it in the back of my mind, so-and-so did this. But then I started realizing like, yo, most of the time the headline really has nothing to do with what the actual interview— it was maybe, like you said, 8 words out of a whole interview that can be twisted twisted, and most of the time when it twists, it's going to twist towards the negative side. So that's definitely something I think as a society we have to get better at because there's always so much information coming at us that if you're going to have an opinion on something you heard, make sure you really go back and do the research or read the article or listen to the interview before you come out and say some bullshit.

No, 100%. 100%. I agree. But yeah, man, uh, Steph Curry recently breaking Recently breaking the record, the 3-point record, 2,974 threes to break the record, which is absolutely insane. He did it. Think of Ray Allen played 1,300 games. Steph has played 789 games.

Unbelievable.

Like, it's mind-blowing how incredible of a scorer he is, how incredible of a shooter he is, the greatest shooter we've ever seen. Draymond Green, when was the moment where you saw Steph and you like, "Oh nah, he different." And obviously you never know it's going to reach this point. What was that moment for you? Was it as a teammate or was it as an opponent?

Well, I think first it was an opponent. And then once I became a teammate, it's like, "Oh, it makes sense 'cause this motherfucker works his ass off." But I think as an opponent, I saw it first People don't realize, like, we were— and I don't even know if you guys looked at it this way, but we were quote-unquote almost the big brother between the Clipper and Warrior early battles we had. You know, you guys were a younger team. We were an older team that never, never lived up to the hype or never got over the hump because we always got in our way. So we would always go to war with your young team. And Steph and CP, there was always this. Even they may love each other, respect each other, whatever, but it was always— those were always the two names. So— Yeah. I remember, 'cause obviously CP was at the top of his game at that time. And I remember some shit you says like, "I'm rolling with Steph 10 outta 10 times." Or you said some shit like that. I'm just like, "I love this." And then again, he took us to the 7 games a year, the Donald Sterling shit. But it was as an opponent when I played for the Clippers, because like I said, you guys were kind of like our mini little rival at the time. But just to see some of the shots he took, and no matter what our defensive approach was, he would find a way to make something happen. And obviously a lot of that credit goes to you, you know, and Klay too, because again, I don't think that Warrior team becomes the team they are without you because I really think you sacrificed so much. But also from a standpoint, you have such a great understanding of him and such a great understanding of Klay that you can get everyone else to understand your point of view. Also Andre, Andre, you and Andre, I think your guys' point of view on how we can get these two guys off, because if they get off, we're gonna eat free all day. We're gonna eat very easily if our two killers are out there killing. So again, just seeing him as an opponent for a long time, but then, you know, when I got a chance to come to your guys' team at the midway point of that '17 season, it blew me away because again, with that Lob City team, man, you know, Blake, CP, Jamal, JJ, DeAndre, Lamar Odom, Eric Bledsoe, like there's no— Karam Butler. There's no fucking way we shouldn't have won a championship. But I'd never been on a team— obviously your guys had more star power with your team, but we had a lot of stars on our team.

Absolutely.

But when I came to that team, all the egos were left outside the facility. All the legal egos were left outside of Oracle. And it was all about working and getting better. And I think what blew me away the most is, You've only been on that team, so you don't know no different. But I've been on teams, once practice is over, the gym is empty.

It's crazy.

I went to this team and it's just like, I had to wait to get on the court because all 8 fucking hoops, everybody's working. It was Klay on one end, it was KD and Steph on one end, it was you somewhere, it was Draymond somewhere, it was Looney and the younger dude somewhere, it was Iggy somewhere. So I just saw, so when I would have to sit sometimes 30 to 45 minutes, sometimes an hour just to get my normal, you know, stay in shape old man routine off, I would watch the shit obviously that everyone's doing, but then, you know, it was KD and Steph were working with Steve Nash. So I'm looking at Steve's great mind. I got a chance to play with Steve. KD is KD, Steph is Steph. So I'm looking at the off-balance, awkward body angles, one foot leaning, left hand, right hand, all the shit that they were working on. And I'm thinking like, any shot that these two guys in particular, but I'll talk about Steph makes on the court is not luck. I can never say that Steph Curry made a lucky shot because you know He works on the odd angles, the awkward hand, the off the glass, the half court shots that he shoots like they're fucking layups while we're warming up.

Yeah.

Where people don't know, like, the warmup is jogging, laughing, stretching a little bit, but Steph is always shooting 3/4 court, half court shots, and he makes them like they're layups. So I think, again, to answer your question, I think I saw it originally as an opponent, but it just kind of made— it all made sense when I got to see him work day to day because he works his ass off on his craft. And, you know, as your team does. And I think what's kind of made you guys so successful is, you know, we grew up watching basketball, and you grew up watching the Lakers and the Bulls and the Celtics, and all these teams always kept their core together. This new basketball, the stars, the cores are always leaving.

Yeah.

You guys, some way, and even though you went through a down point, You guys were able to keep your core together now, and that's why now when you're healthy, when Steph is healthy, Klay is on the verge of getting healthy, Iggy is back, your guys' core is so strong. Plus Coach Kerr, now you added young talent around you guys. So it's always— I've always told people when I speak on ESPN or when I'm speaking, I'm like, just watch this Warrior team once they get healthy because they've been able to keep their core together. And obviously Steph is the star and he gets all the credit, as he should. But again, I think that that core unit is the reason why you guys are in championship contention again and will be in championship contention for the next 2, 3, 4 years as you guys run with, you know, with a leader and a scorer like Steph. But again, I wanna give you your kudos too, bro, because people don't understand, again, playing against you and then playing with you, I see the shit you have to do on a day-to-day basis and I see the way you conduct yourself on and off the court. And I really felt like that franchise has embodied your hard work, blue collar mentality, and have made it into a dynasty. And again, you guys are on the verge of, I feel like you guys are on the verge of something special again. And I think before we, I just wanna say, I think Jordan Poole is a cold motherfucker, man.

Yeah.

Ooh wee, tell him, I don't know him, but I like, you know, like he is someone who has been able to take advantage of unfortunately Klay being hurt and coming around basketball minds like yourself and everyone else who's there. So I'm happy for you. Obviously I know this interview was for me, but I just, 'cause we hadn't got a chance to talk, I just wanted to make sure you guys knew that, man, I'm still rooting for you guys. I love what you guys have been able to do, man. And still, man, over here cheering for y'all.

Nah, I appreciate it, bro. I definitely appreciate it. You know, it's, being in this position, you have to have a lot of self-gratitude. Gratitude because it's not always gonna be seen. People don't know the stuff that go on behind the scenes. People don't, you don't get credit for screening. You don't get really get credit for defense. Like, you know, a lot of the stuff you just don't get credit for. So you have to have a huge appreciation for self, a huge amount of self-gratitude, but also a huge appreciation from the guys you do it with as well. I.E. Steph getting us Rolexes, you know, after he broke the record, which is like, I've been working on like trying to figure out along with Hazel, like what gift should I get him for him breaking a record? And I'm still gonna get him a gift, but I want it to be special. So I wanna figure out the right thing, but I'm like, what gift am I gonna get him? What gift am I gonna get him? And I finally said to Hazel, I'm like, I don't wanna rush it 'cause I don't want it to be the wrong gift. I want it to be meaningful. So I didn't get it yet. And then last night I'm getting a gift, you know? And it's like, you know, that the appreciation from your peers, from your counterparts, from the guys you go to battle with also keeps it going as well. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Well, I think, yeah. I mean, to me, that's what I, 'cause I never got, you know, I had a chance to get a couple deals that kind of fell through. I really was underpaid my whole entire career, and it made me mad. And sometimes I'd get pissed off, or I would move teams. But at the same time, I think what the key says, you're respected by your peers. Maybe fuck the media, fuck the fans sometimes, or the haters sometimes, because like I said, they don't really know the game. But when you're respected by your opponents and by your teammates, that's kind of the— in a position— again, you've been an All-Star defensive player, Olympian, and all that kind of stuff, but to me, you still don't get the props you deserve. And you're at peace with that, which is great. When you hear it from me or guys you play against, or when you're on guys with the Olympic team, like, they fuck with you. And real basketball minds know that kind of stuff. And sometimes, like you said, when you're not the star, and there are very few super superstars, you don't necessarily get that. So again, understanding who you are as a person, applauding yourself every once in a while because you need it, but then also hearing it from your opponents or your counterparts. And then, like you said, Steph showing you his appreciation when he broke the record by— Yeah. Handing you a Rolex. And I seen KD's tweet too, 'cause I saw he was third in assists. He's like, "Yo, send the Rolly." Send the Rolly.

Hey, you know what's crazy about that? KD has 153 assists in 3 years. Like, that's insane. I didn't realize that.

Yeah, it's a crazy stat. But that means you look at, but you look at you, like, I mean, you're almost at 500. That's a lot. Lot of buckets, you know what I mean? And, and to even see Klay on that list, it's just like, Klay don't pass nobody but, but, but the motherfucking basket, you know what I mean? But it's just dope. It just kind of shows, and it, it takes a village, you know? As great as Steph is, and he will hands down be the greatest shooter, I think he's gonna put this record so far outta reach that no one will ever sniff it. I think someone might score 100 points before they break Steph's 3-point shooting record. But again, I think he landed in a great situation, you know? And you guys drafted really well. And again, you've been able to keep the core of this team together that really understands him. 'Cause I remember when I got to the team, you know, always look the screen down. Just always look the screen down. Find Klay or find, you know, so to buy into that and understand that mentality and guys that come in and do it, it's such a beautiful thing because I don't think people understand how hard he works to get one shot off. That motherfucker can run back and forth 8 different times, touch the ball 3 times, but end up getting a corner 3 at the very end because the offense is so patient and has an understanding. So again, I know we could talk all day, but I just like, you guys have something special. Man, I hope you guys understand it in the moment, which I know you guys do. And best of luck, man, staying healthy and chasing another ring this year.

My brother, no, I definitely appreciate it. And on the KD thing, I think he might get a Rolex. I don't know, we'll see. He got outta here on us. But no, I think it definitely speaks to, it definitely speaks to the greatness group that's here, that you've been a part of, all the guys that's come through here and just bought into what we're selling, you know? And that's greatness, that's getting to the next shot, that's getting to the best shot, making it good to great. Family, family.

At the end of the day, I think you can overall say you guys are family and you're a team. And when you're able to keep that family together, you're always better, you're always stronger as a unit than you are individually, man. Again, continue to access the albums, man.

Thanks, brother. As we get outta here, who is your guest that you, your dream guest that you would want on All the Smoke? I saw you speak on this a couple times where you talked about Tupac, but who, if you gotta pick one guest for All the Smoke that y'all have not had, who is your dream guest?

LeBron.

That's fire.

Yeah, I've seen him a couple times.

Real legend.

Yeah, he's given me, "Okamama, I'm ready." I've talked to his team a couple times. So, you know, obviously there's people like Jay-Z and Draymond Green and all these other guys outside of basketball that I would love to be able to talk to. But, you know, having Kobe's last interview, rest in peace to our brother, was really special. The array of people we've had on the show have been special. But, you know, I just think, like you said, the great, you know, LeBron is one of the greatest depending on who you talk to.

I would love to have LeBron on the Draymond Green show too, bro.

And that's your homie though. So you're gonna have a better insight on that than me. But yeah, that's my one dream guest.

I respect that. Dream guest of mine as well. Not my only one, but definitely a dream guest of mine.

Who's your dream guest?

My dream guest is President Obama. I would love to have President Obama as a basketball fan, As first Black president, as everything that he means to the culture, to the world, not just us as Black people, like to the world, one of the better presidents we've had, the way he carried himself, the way he carries himself, just everything he stand for.

Mm-hmm.

Is President Obama for me. Me.

You'll get 'em.

Yes, sir. But I appreciate you coming on, man. We've been rolling with these great wing defenders. First we had Metta, then we had Stack, now my big bro, Matt Barnes. Matt, I appreciate you, brother. Thank you for coming on.

Good for having me, bro. Good luck the rest of the way. Let's catch up soon.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Wow. What an incredible, incredible interview. Super insightful as I than I said and thought it would be when speaking to Matt. And like I said, I hope everyone took away what they needed to take away from speaking with Matt Barnes, but also just on your overall perspective. If you took anything away from this, I hope it's more of your perspective and even less of what we spoke about because your perspective shapes narratives and narrative shapes conversations. Yeah. And conversations shape the world we live in. So those perspectives and those narratives are extremely important. So if anything's altered, I hope it's that. And I hope you have a deeper understanding and appreciation just for athletes, entertainers, people who you may watch, you may be fans of, you don't necessarily know as a person, but you may think you do because of the connection that you have in watching or being entertained by said individual. Yeah. But I wanna again, thank Matt Barnes for coming onto the Draymond Green Show. Can't say that enough. These, you know, having these guys come onto the show, I mean, it adds an even another layer. And like I said, even more so, I'm just thankful to be able to hear their opinion, to hear their takes and get the knowledge in the game that I've been soaking up. And I hope you all have been as well. So until next week, Next week, the mailbag episode. Talk to y'all later. Happy holidays to everyone. Much love. Enjoy your families. Enjoy your friends. Talk to y'all next week. Thank you.

Thank you.