Lou Williams on Allen Iverson, 6th man rankings & Magic City chicken wings | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody? It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to The Volume's YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. I'm honored to welcome, number one, just for starters, this is our first guest back on the Draymond Green Show since before the playoffs, which was April. And as you know, you gotta, you can't come back with a guest that's just anyone. You gotta come back with somebody that's, accomplished, that got the respect amongst their peers and amongst the world, but also somebody who, you know, gonna garner the attention that people wanna hear from. And I think most importantly, because the fit has to work, that I wanna hear from and that I wanna chop it up with. And like I said, it's an honor to welcome you to the show, the great Lou Will. What's up, my brother?

What's up, G? Congrats again, my man. Another one.

Thank you, bro. Another one like Callus said.

Another one.

I appreciate it, man. That was dope.

That was exciting to watch, man. My daughter was glued to the television. She a big Draymond Green fan, my 11-year-old Jada. So shout out to Jada. I know she gonna watch this. She watch all your podcasts. So her face lit up when I told her I was doing this today, man.

So congrats again. Hey Jada, I got nothing but love for you. 'Cause I tell you what, I got booed at the Drew League the other day, Jada. Everywhere I go, I'm public enemy number one.

So to know that I have You gotta take the love where it come from. You gotta take the love.

And the reality is, the love, the real love come from the kids anyway. Like, you know, you get out in the world and people taint your image of this thing and that thing. The real love come from the kids. So Jada, I appreciate you.

I definitely appreciate you. She gonna love that.

She gonna love that. Does she hoop?

Yeah, she hoop. I'm trying to get her to learn how to work. We at that stage, you know?

Okay.

She 11, she love it, she passionate about it, but she ain't trying to get in that gym right now. You know what I'm saying? So I'm trying to get her to embrace the grind. Like, and she gotta just start getting around kids and just get her ass whooped a little bit. And then, you know, she's at that place where she hates losing more than she love winning. You know what I'm saying? So I'm trying to get her just to love winning. You know, just like, I'm just better than everybody. I want her to get that mindset, so. That's what we working on right now.

That's incredible. How long she been into it?

She only been in the hoop like a year, 2 years. It came out the blue. I wasn't sure whether she was gonna wanna do it, but out the blue, she just, she signed herself up for basketball. She said that's where all her friends was hanging out. So she just wanted to be in the gym with the homies. You know what I'm saying? And she caught that bug.

Absolutely.

She caught the bug. So I've been just trying to put her in the right positions. And you know how it is with parenting, man. You gotta take, sometimes you gotta ease off, especially when it's, it's sports and everything, you gotta ease off and kind of let 'em just enjoy it. 'Cause you know, we super competitive and we obviously want our kids to be the best at everything. And so if we got the information, we got the knowledge, we always trying to give it to 'em. And so I'm just picking my spots where I'm dad and I'm coach.

You know what I'm saying? So. Absolutely. So, so question, like, are you going to do the coaching thing as in coaching her or are you just going to get her ready on the side and let her, let someone else coach?

I want her to have the experience without me being a part of it. I want her to pave her way, have her own lane, be able to be comfortable around her friends, talk to her friends how they wanna talk, engage how they wanna engage, and just have their natural environment without your parents being around all the time. So I'm gonna give her that space on that. But if it's something she requests for me to do and she want me to be around, I'll do it.

Oh, that's incredible. I always, you know, I got, some homies that kids are around that age now. And you know, we always talk about like, do you coach 'em or do you let somebody else coach 'em? And I always say like, I don't wanna be that dad that's coaching my kids. I wanna be the dad that go and sit back and watch the game. And just enjoy it. Yeah. And if I need to help somewhere, I will. And they all say, you're not gonna be able to do that. There's no chance. They say, because you're going to see someone coaching them, you're not going to agree— —Yeah, and then you gonna just go take it over. Yeah. And so we gonna tap back in in a couple years.

Yeah. But it's important, like, you know, coming up in AAU, you trying to get the furthest away from your parents that you can. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just wanna hang with the homies. You wanna hoop, you wanna compete. And only thing you want your parents for is for some snack money in between games and for them to be in the stands for their support. So that's where I'm at. Like, soon as I open my mouth, Shut your mouth up about basketball. She like rolling her eyes. I'm like, sweetheart, I'm the only expert you know. Well, all right, I won't say that.

I don't wanna hear that.

Yeah, she don't wanna hear a word I got to say, but I respect it and I appreciate the space that she's trying to create. And so I just, I take my time and I pick my spots with it.

Hennessy celebrates those who never stop, never settle in their never-ending pursuit of greatness. Maurice Ashley lives his passion. An inspiring story of intellect and brilliance. His ability to push the potential of his own mind to new levels of greatness is universally inspiring. In the world of the mind, there are no limits. Hennessy. Never stop. Never settle. If you want to learn more about Maurice Ashley, visit www.hennessy.com. 21+. Please drink responsibly. Nah, that's super dope. As a former second round pick myself, you know, and just now, you know, getting into your career, you were the 45th pick coming outta high school, which we'll get into that a little later. But as a second round pick myself, I have a ton of respect for guys who come through the second round and get it out the mud and is able to make, you know, real careers outta that. What was your journey like going from, highly touted high school senior, then you go into the draft and don't quite go in the draft where everyone expected you to go. What was that? What, number one, start me from the beginning. What was that draft night like and bypassing the first round, knowing that you had just skipped college to reach your dream?

Yeah, I knew from the beginning, I knew two things from the beginning. I knew I was gonna be a late second, late first round pick. And I wasn't going to nobody college. So it really didn't matter where I— [LAUGHTER] It really didn't matter where I was getting picked. I wasn't going to nobody school. I wasn't going to no class that was out. I had started kind of experiencing some things in the lifestyle, and I just started looking around my class like, "Man, I'm nothing like y'all, and I don't think my journey is gonna be nothing like y'all's." And so I began to train my brain for that. And so, you know, once I finally got around to draft night, My agent was kinda, he was like, you know, we think we gonna go to Miami at 27. And so, you know, I was kinda excited about the opportunity to do that. And then, you know, things changed. And it was a guy, Wayne Simien, at the time, he was College Player of the Year.

Congrats.

Yeah, he was still on the board at 27 and Miami took him. So at that point I started spending, well, first of all, I was invited to the draft, but my agent was like, I'm gonna be honest with you, you gonna look crazy in there because we gonna be late first round. So I decided to stay at the crib. We threw a party at ESPN Zone. So I watched the draft at ESPN Zone. And I remember when that first round was over, I walked outta ESPN Zone and I stood in the lobby and they still had the draft on in the TV in the lobby. And I watched the rest of it by myself 'cause I just, I didn't know which direction my career, what was gonna happen at that point. You know, I hadn't worked out for, any teams in the second round. Crazy enough, the Atlanta Hawks, they had the first pick of the second round.

Oh wow.

And so we get on the phone, we call them, they like, "We can't do it. You know, we looking for it, we looking for a shooting guard, looking for a point guard, but we can't do it. We can't have two local kids on the bench at the same time." They had drafted Josh Smith the year before that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And Kevin Willis was still getting those minutes and Josh wasn't necessarily getting playing time. And so he was a big time guy in the city. And then so to have have him and me, both of us on the bench, being local kids, being local superstar kids, they just like, it was a bad look. So they ended up drafting Saleem Stoudemire with that pick.

Mm-hmm.

And so I didn't know which way, I didn't know what was what, you know what I'm saying? And that was my first wake-up call to the business. Like, you know, trust words here and there and don't trust the words until the actions match what they saying, you know what I'm saying? And so, I caught a break. I caught a break with Philly because my agent represented Mo Cheeks at the time, who was the head coach.

Okay.

And so they really did me a favor. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

They drafted me as a favor for the relationship that Mo and my agent had. And, you know, obviously I was talented, you know? So it was a low risk, high reward for them. They took a chance on me and, you know, I spent the first 8 years of my career in Philly, so.

Which was incredible. I think that's a very interesting thing you just said is they drafted me as a favor because I think guys don't realize like, so at that point they got the 45th pick. They're not really valuing that pick at that point in the draft. And guys don't realize how much favor, how many favors are done in this league. Relationships.

Relationships, bro.

Absolutely. And I have one of my young fellas, I think he came out a couple years ago, didn't get drafted. And I was recent, I had a conversation with him a couple months ago, or not even a couple months ago, maybe like a month ago. And I was telling him, don't get caught up in the whole, I'm better than that dude. I'm better than this dude. I'm better than that dude. 'Cause it ain't about that. You know, when you get to the 14th and 15th man on the roster, which is what you was drafted as, which is what I was drafted as, that position is decided by a coach.

For sure.

And in your case, would it be like, all right, so here's our 14th or 15th spot. Mo Cheeks is our coach. Let's do this favor for our coach because that's who decides that spot. And I was telling the young fella like, yo man, you gotta get tight with one of these coaches so that when they get— your way into the league is gonna be a 14th or 15th man. And when they get down to that 14th or 15th man, That coach has gotta be like, "That's my guy." And then there's your opportunity. Stop falling into this trap of, "Man, you see that guy and this guy and that guy and that guy, I'm better than all of them." Because it's less about that.

It's not about that at all. It's really about what a team need and how a team feel about you. And you know, if somebody draft you, it makes them look good for your success.

Yes.

So they gonna push you. But if a team not really married to you, to you being a draft pick, they gonna move to the guys that they really care about. And I was blessed to be 17 when I got drafted. They realized I was talented. They realized they had time to groom me. This wasn't gonna be an overnight thing. They still had Allen Iverson playing 45 minutes a game at that spot. And then Kevin Ollie is backing him up and Willie Green is backing him up. So there was no pressure on drafting me at that position. You know what I'm saying? I was blessed to have that opportunity to watch them, to see what I can and what I can't do, and have 2 years where I can really pretty much groom myself and just, I called it an internship, a paid internship. That's how I looked at it. You know, for my first 2 years, I knew I wasn't gonna get on the floor, but it was a paid internship. And then that 3rd year, I was looking around like, "All right, y'all got me fucked up. I'm ready." You know what I'm saying? That part. But I appreciate it. I appreciate the journey. I'm glad that nothing was given to me because I can look back going into year 18, if I continue to play, to say, man, I really did this shit and I did something that I can be proud of. You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't a lot of favors involved except the fact that the first one that got me in the door. And that was important. You know what I'm saying?

Nah, for sure. So you spend your rookie year And you spent majority of that, or the good chunk of the beginning of the season, at least, in the D-League at the time. Wasn't the G-League then, it was the D-League.

You know what's crazy? That's the most misunderstood thing about me. I only played 3 games in the G-League, bro.

Really?

I only played 3 games in my entire career, but they put me on like they alumni shit.

Yeah, they do. That's interesting.

No, Billy King, our GM at the time, he felt like it was more important for me as a young kid, like I said, I was 17 by the time I was drafted, I was 18 by the time training camp started. He thought it was more important for me to understand I'm working with grown men, I need to be around this environment, I need to be there, I need to feel it, I need to feel that energy. And that's how we carried it. And then my second year, I got to the point I'm like, "Yo, I gotta play." And so they figured out a way where I went and played 3, I think it was supposed to be 3 home games. At that time it was the Fort Worth Flyers.

Oh, yep.

We was down in Fort Worth and they had a game on a Monday, a game on Wednesday, a game on Friday, all in Fort Worth. We would have to travel to Little Rock, Arkansas that Saturday play a game and then I would fly back.

Okay.

So I played the 3 games, averaged 39 points a game for that week. I got on a team bus, we drove 9 hours on a bus to Little Rock, Arkansas. I get to my room in Little Rock, Arkansas, within an hour I got a phone call in my room, said, "We need you to go to the airport right now. We need you to go to Philly right now." And I'm like, "What the fuck is going on?" and I turn on ESPN and they traded AI. Wow.

So— That's crazy.

The week I went to the— the week I— well, it was D-League at the time, but the week I went to the G-League, my last game I was supposed to play, they called me right back to Philly 'cause they traded AI. And I got to Philly at halftime. They was playing the Washington Wizards that Saturday night. I got to the gym at halftime and never looked back.

That's insane. By the way, that's a very monumental NBA moment. Like to be involved in that moment.

I can't forget it. I can never forget it.

That's insane.

Yeah. And the fact that it was like, everybody know how I feel about AI. He's my idol. I got tattoos because of this dude. My whole thing is based around the image that he created. You know what I'm saying? So I say that publicly, like I worship the ground this dude walked on. For me to have an opportunity to work with him and then our paths constantly crossing, you know, it was cause and effect and it was crazy. But to have him in my corner and to be a part of his history and for him to be a part of my history, part of each other's stories is, I don't know, bro.

Nah, that's insane. So tell me this though, did that fuck with you mentally that, Like you find out, yo, AI just been traded. Like did that fuck with you?

It fucked with me, but it was more like everything was 100 miles an hour at that time for me. Like you gotta understand I'm so young and I'm in the NBA. So every single day is an experience for me. Every day, whatever arena we going to, I'm in the arena looking around with the big eyes. Whatever team we playing, I'm looking at the superstars with the big eyes. You know, like every little, experience is something to me. So I was holding on to all of that shit. So once I got my opportunity, I was so locked in on not fucking my chance up, I couldn't really even think about the big homie. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

I was like, okay, this is it. You know what I'm saying?

Draymond Green.

Yeah, this is my opportunity.

That's interesting. My rookie year, I had Mark Jackson was our head coach. And the day before our first game, first regular season game, I— day before our regular season game, first regular season game, he pulled me to the side and he's like, "Yo, you know, this, the NBA has a weird way of working itself out. And you know, you may not get an opportunity right away, but everyone gets an opportunity. And just make sure when your number's called, you ready for your opportunity." So I'm like, "All right, cool." In a weird way, I think he telling me like, "Tomorrow you not gonna play." So I'm like, let me mentally prepare myself for that. And so I don't play first game. Second game we play.

Were you dressing though?

I'm dressing. I am dressing. So, and for those of y'all that don't know what he's asking about dressing is, in the NBA you got 15 roster spots, only 13 guys can dress. Other 2 guys are inactive. So I was dressing.

It's 13 now, then it was 12. Facts.

Facts.

Facts.

Absolutely. And so I was dressing, second game of my career. And at that time I came in the league, they had me playing 3, which is a disaster and almost had me outta here. But the second game, Brandon rushed towards ACL. And so I'm sitting there on the bench and I'm like, yo, this is what he was talking about. Like everybody get an opportunity. In that game, I still only played 3 minutes., but that's 3 more minutes than I played the first game. And like, I try to tell all the young guys now, and to know that that was your mindset at 19. Like, I wasn't ready for that. I was 22 years old and you was 17. Well, second year, so 18 turning 19.

Right.

I wasn't ready for that. I was, and I was messed up because, you know, in my life I had never not played before. Yours even more so than me. Because you going from high school, but I had never not played before. So mentally I just wasn't ready to not play.

Right.

And I'm like, yo, this is a different thing for me. But then I saw that guy, I saw Brandon Rush get hurt and I'm like, ah, okay, I see what he mean now. And then my chance came and it'll go and it'll come and it'll go and it'll come. But every time it did come, I was ready for it. And I think that's what the young guys don't understand these days. I think young guys these days, sometimes they, they end up so entitled and they don't understand like, yo, number one, you don't understand the NBA game coming into the NBA. So although you may be more talented, although you may have more potential and all of those things, athletic and shoot better than this guy in front of you, that guy understands the NBA game. And I think we've done a poor job as guys growing older in this league— and relaying that to these guys, it's like—

Well, shit, they eliminating us.

—they don't understand the NBA game.

They eliminating us.

True.

You know what I'm saying? Like, a lot of these teams with these young guys, they don't have no vets or OGs in the locker room to give 'em game. You know what I'm saying? That's why my run with the Hawks this past year and a half was a gift and a curse. You know, it wasn't the greatest fit for me to be on the floor and continue my career, but— I had the best time with learning these guys and giving them information and being a big brother figure to them and giving them some game. And they was soaking it up and I thought they was applying it. And it just made me feel like, damn, this shit is important. It's important because sometimes the young guys, we might criticize them and they really don't know. They really don't have the information, but we criticize them like, you need to be doing this, you need to be doing that. The nigga's like, bro, I don't even know what you talking about.

Yeah.

That part. You know what I'm saying?

That part, absolutely.

So I think it's important for the OGs and for the vets, you know, older guys to be that middle ground, to be that gray area, to kind of bridge that gap for guys to have the information and then for them to apply it as well.

Nah, for sure. I agree with that 100%. I was actually explaining to someone the other day how vets are getting, like, if you're a vet, very, very likely that they'll squeeze you in this league now. And how the salaries work. See, I don't think, I don't think people truly understand like how the salary structure work now.

Right.

It's turned more into baseball than it used to be. You know, they, you essentially cut the entire middle out where the NBA used to have minimums, used to have mid-levels, used to have maxes and everything in between that. Now you got max, you got mid-level, taxpayer mid-level, if it's a tax team, and minimums.

Right.

And because of that, and because of how high the salaries are for the top 3 players on the team—

You can't really squeeze nothing out of there.

Exactly. So every team is now ending up right at the tax or above the tax. And so for instance, in our situation, I was actually explaining some contract situations to someone yesterday, and I was just telling him, like, 'cause he was like, why'd y'all let Gary Payton go? Right? Like, he was so big to what y'all did. And I said, I agree 100%. I didn't want to see GP go. But with the way these taxes are set up now, I think, and I could be, I'll be a little off on the numbers, but like, so GP signed a, $9 million a year. In order for us to pay that $9 million per year in our tax situation, I think it's like $45 million a year or something like that.

Yeah, you gotta let 'em roll.

And so it's, you know, it's one of those things of like, you're looking at it like, oh man, that's $9 million. But they're looking at it like, that's a $45 million per year.

It's a tax hit, yeah.

And are they willing to go that high? And I think that's something that has to be figured out in this next CBA. Well, they told us to let 'em roll.

Draymond Green, don't sign that shit. They did.

And we signed it every time.

They told us.

We signed it every time.

They told us in plain English, listen, the middle is getting wiped out if y'all sign this deal. And we was like, all right. And we did it.

And we did it and the middle getting wiped out. And like you said, where it's taking it, where it's impacting is it's definitely impacting the rookies. Like you look at some of these teams, they don't have a vet. Like, I don't think— I think one of Memphis's issues last year was they didn't have a vet. And so once it gets tough, you get into that playoff series where it gets tough, who is that one guy that you turn to for experience that's calming everything down?

Right.

'Cause for me, yeah, 'cause for me that was huge in my career. You think of like, I mean, you think of the vets I had, bro. I had Jermaine O'Neal. Jared Jack, David Lee, Andre Iguodala, David West, Leandro Barbosa, like Karl-Andre, those are the guys that were my vets.

Right.

Andrew Bogut, that was everything for my career. You speaking, you had Andre Iguodala.

You had real guys you could look up to and you respected they words. I had AI, I had both AIs, but Draymond was more my peer. We was figuring this shit out at the same time. But he still was a big brother to me though.

Yeah.

Man, Elton Brand, Chris Webber, fucking Kevin Ollie. I owe so many flowers to Kevin Ollie, you know, early in my career, just as a kid. Like he knew I was a kid and he was just right for me. "Hey young fella, after practice, man, I ain't gonna hold you up. I know you trying to get out there, man. Just shoot with me 10, 15 minutes." Like he knew how to communicate with me. You know, like he would speak to me like if I didn't do it, I was letting him down. He knew how to, you know what I'm saying? But that was so big for me because that taught me how to communicate with the next group of young guys when I was in a position, you know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

That's why I have so many special bonds with these young guys because Kevin Ollie taught me how to communicate.

Nah, for sure. So in continuing with your career, you do your first 8 years with the Sixers, then you leave and you sign with the Hawks, going back to the crib. How was that experience going back for you after 8 years, as opposed to if you had gone there right outta high school?

Yeah, I'm glad it played out how it did. I don't think I was mature enough. I don't think I would've been locked in. I don't think I would've been focused. You know, just because when you so young, And you know how it is, those first, you know, your first 4 or 5 years, everybody wants to be a part of it.

Absolutely.

Everybody wants to be a part of it. Everybody wanna experience it. And so for me to be so young and being at home, and I got a big family, I got a big crew, I got a lot of people that depend on me. And if I'd have had that pressure on me at a young age, I would've been done, bro.

Straight up.

Oh, for sure. I would've been done. So I'm glad it played out how it did because I had never been to Philadelphia before I got drafted there. And you know, by the time I left, I had 2 kids. I had 2 kids, I was a grown man. You know, I had tough skin because of the city that I played in. Like I played in one of the roughest cities when it come to fans, when it come to media. And I was able to, you know, and when you leave Philadelphia and they love you, it's like, job well done. 'Cause everybody don't get out like that in Philly.

In fact.

You know? Everybody don't get out where they say, "Yeah, we appreciate you." You know what I'm saying? So I'm just grateful that my route went the way that it did. And I wouldn't have been ready for Atlanta right off the bat, but shit, by the time I got there in year number 9, it was just, my two stints with Atlanta, we just throw both of 'em away, man. Just like that.

Just, we just— But mentally though, your first year there, you tore your ACL.

Second year I tore my ACL. Second year?

Yep, second year. Okay, did it help you being at home and having that support of the people at home? Or do you think no matter where you was at, it would've been the same?

I think it would've been the same 'cause I didn't spend no time in Atlanta. When I tore my ACL, they sent me straight to Florida. I was down in Florida with, to Andrews.

Oh yeah, yep.

Yep, I rented a crib down there and I was there full time.

So it really didn't matter. And after that, you then get traded to the Toronto Raptors where in my opinion is where your career took off. Like you became Lou Will in Philly, obviously, but I felt like when you got to Toronto, that's when you became like who you are today. Do you agree with that?

Of course, I was playing with house money. You know, I had success, then I hit a bump in the road with the ACL tear. And shout out to Coach Bud. Budnoser pulled me in the office. He said, "Yo, I don't think you'll ever be the same player again." You know, he told me to my face. And I respect him to this day because, you know, he didn't play me. He didn't waste my time. He sat me down right at the end of the season, said, "I don't think it's gonna work here. We gonna find a trade partner for you." in the summer we'd be in touch.

Wow.

Told me straight up. Yeah, told me straight up. And I had a lot going on in my life at that time. Like I said, I was at a crossroads in my career. You know, when you tear your ACL, you like, it's a lot of dark days with the ACL, bro. You was around Klay, I'm sure he could tell you.

Absolutely.

It's a lot of dark days. You like, a lot of self-doubt, you know what I'm saying? And so once I got to Toronto, shit, I thought my career was over anyway. So I told him.

Wow.

Yeah, so I told him, I'm like, "Yo, I'm here for the year. I'm just gonna hoop, have some fun. I'm gonna try to help y'all as much as I can and I'm done. So like, let's do it." And you know, shout out to Kyle, shout out to DeMar, shout out to Chuck Hayes, shout out to Amir Johnson. Them 4 dudes, they rallied around me so much, bro. They had so much experience, so much knowledge about Toronto. Toronto, and them 4 dudes just poured into me. Poured into me. Like DeMar DeRozan, DeMar to this day, D-Boi would tell you to this day, "That's my sixth man." But he always would say that to me before I even won the Sixth Man Award up there. He was like, "Hey, bruh. Hey, you my sixth man. Like, turn up." And so they gave me that confidence. Like, you part of us now. You know what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm.

And that was something that reset my career. I was able to win my first Sixth Man of the Year. Then go to LA right after that. And it re-energized me. I fell in love with the game again. I fell in love with being in the gym again. My body started feeling right. And I just, after that, man, I just started taking off again.

Nah, facts. I think, you know, then, so you go there, you reestablish your career, you get traded to the Clippers. How influential was Doc? To you then going on to win those next two? 'Cause I felt like, and this, you know, I felt like in 2016, Steph and I were the deadliest combination in the NBA. And it was based on Steph coming off of pick and roll. And if you step up, if you blow, he hitting the shot, as we all know. If I roll and I get into that pocket at that time, it was lights out for everybody.

He talking about at that time, like you ain't just win the chip again.

Well, but we gotta do it a little differently now. They guard us differently now. But at that time, if I got in the pocket—

At this point, y'all have mastered it though.

Yeah, it's clockwork.

The one thing that, yeah, the one thing I appreciate about y'all, when I watch y'all play, I watch y'all go option A, option B, option C, option D. All right, fuck it, let's figure it out.

Absolutely.

It's protocol with y'all, man. I respect that about y'all, it's protocol.

I appreciate that. But on the flip side of that, I thought you and Montrezl Harrell became like one of the most deadly combinations in the NBA. And I thought for y'all to build that chemistry, for Doc to find those two pieces, I thought that was huge. How do you feel about Doc and what he brought to your career once you then went to the Clippers.

So let me tell you that time in my career. So the first time I thought I was gonna retire was going into Toronto. The second time I thought I was gonna retire is when I got traded to the Clippers. 'Cause a lot of people don't realize that was the third team in 6 months for me.

Wow. It was Houston too, right?

Yeah, see, I was with the Lakers. See, the Lakers told me they was gonna trade me. They was like, "We wasting your time." "Draymond Green, we gonna get you outta here." So they traded me to Houston over the All-Star break. I finished the season with Houston and Houston traded me in the off-season. So I'm looking like, I'm not holding value anywhere. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

These teams not looking at me as a valuable piece. So it might be, I think this is year 13, 14, like going into my 14th year.

Yeah.

So I'm like, you know, this good run. "You know what I'm saying? Like, tilt your hat off, you had a good run." That part. And if you ever look back at the press conference, I'm there, I'm frowning, I don't wanna be there, I'm holding the jersey, and literally it's a video out there. Soon as they done taking pictures, I put the jersey down, walk off the stage and leave. So Doc called me, he like, "Yo, you left yet?" I said, "I'm on my way to the airport." He like, "Turn around, I need to talk to you." So I turn around, go back to the gym. He like, "What's up with you?" I'm like, "What you mean?" He like, "Your energy, like I ain't really feeling it." If you know Doc, he don't hold no punches. He like, "Yo, I ain't feeling it." Like, "You don't wanna be here?" I said, "I don't." I said, "Bro, I done got traded twice in 6 months." I was like, "No, y'all weren't on my radar. I wasn't a big Clippers fan." "Oh no." They having all this turmoil in the media with Doc and DJ and Blake and all of that, with Chris. Like, bro, I don't wanna be a part of this. You know what I'm saying? So he like, "Look, we resetting, we re-energizing. I don't know what else I need to tell you, but this is gonna be your home and I'm gonna allow you to be yourself and we gonna do something special here." And that was, Doc told me that day one. And for whatever reason, I believed him. For whatever reason, I bought in, I bought in, and my Clippers run is by far the best I felt playing basketball in my entire career.

For sure. I think it was a special run, especially with us being in Golden State, same division and all that. We played y'all a lot.

For sure.

And there were times, there were times during that run where you were number one on the scouting report. Nah, it was a good run. And to go from number one, it was unprecedented because it's like you're 14, 15, 16. It's like you were getting better.

Yeah, it was Benjamin Button. They used to call me Benjamin Button.

And it was a very weird thing because you kept getting, like you kept getting in that space of like, All right, they got Lou Will, but he gotta be slowing down now. Like, they got Lou Will, he gotta be slowing down now. And it's like, you kept getting better. And it got to a point to where I know when you had 50 on us, you were the guy on the team. And that then led you to a different stratosphere of NBA players. And I always say— Draymond Green. People can think what they want, media can think what they want, but how your counterparts feel about you, how the guys that's in the league feel about you, that's the shit that really matters. And it got to the point to where then it's like guys looking at you like, oh, that's Lou team. Like you leading the charge of that offense. What was that like for you going from 14 years of just being one of the guys to like now, like this is actually my team. Yeah.

Yeah, like I said, it was one of the greatest runs of my career because we had the idea that we knew everybody's position. We knew everybody's job. So I wasn't shy about saying, "I got it," because my teammates, they were comfortable with me saying it and they was giving me the tools to go do it. Like Pat Bev, you know, our bond began, in that Clippers because he just, he saw how I was carrying myself. You know, once we traded, I think once we traded Blake, everybody was down. We weren't sure how it was gonna go. And I sat everybody down. I said, "Look, man, they traded Blake. We love Blake. So we don't have to feel responsible for that. Only thing we can do is play as hard as we can, give ourselves an opportunity to win and live with the results. And whatever happened, it happened. Don't put the pressure on us to have to fix it." We gonna fix that. And that was the mindset that we took. And we went out and we just played fun. We played free, we played happy every night. And we put this, we created our own chip on our shoulder, like everybody was against us when nobody was. We weren't on nobody's radar, but we tricked ourselves into thinking like, oh, oh, y'all don't think we could still compete? And that's why our mentality was so strong. I think that's why those years were so strong. While we gave a lot of people problems, I wish we'd have kept that team together and tried to get some things done, but you know how the business go. But like I said, that was just, that's just a special time in my career, bro.

Nah, I think super dope, man. Like I said, going up against you guys and playing against y'all, it's a very special thing. And leading the charge were 3 guys that got it out the mud, which was you, Pat Bev and Trez. And so I thought like just watching that, like I think that inspired more people than y'all knew.

For sure.

Because it just showed people that like, nah, you don't need this or that to get this done. Like there's still other ways to get it done. And so I thought that inspired a lot of people. Continuing on along with your career, you, Jamal Crawford, Manu Ginobili are viewed as like the guys coming off the bench, the sixth man. Like y'all are viewed as, in my opinion, probably the best 3 guys. Now the one guy that I would put in that conversation and no one does because he wasn't scoring a lot was Andre Iguodala when he was with us. Or I mean, he's with us now, but when he first moved to sixth man.

Right.

And the impact that he had on our team, I'm like, oh, he should be in that conversation as well. You know, what, but obviously you guys have the Sixth Man of the Year awards to back that up. But how would you compare your game to Jamal Crawford and Manu Ginobili game and their path as well?

I think we all three had three different unique paths and all three of us got it done. You know, I think you can find a lot of spots in, Manu's career where you can say he's the greatest sixth man. You can find a lot of spots in Jamal's career where you can say that, and you can say it about mine. I think all three of us had such different routes and so different unique games. Like, I can't do half the shit that Jamal do with the basketball. You know what I mean?

He crazy.

I can't do half of it. I couldn't even try. I don't know if I could have accomplished the things that Manu accomplished in that system the way that he did. You know, and I don't think those guys could have put teams on their back the way that I did, you know? So all of our paths were completely different, but you gotta respect all three. You know what I mean?

Yeah, nah, facts for sure. And they just started renaming all of these awards. If they—

I gotta have it.

With the Sixth Man Award, who'd that go to?

I gotta have it.

I could respect that.

I don't shy away from that because, out of the guys that we compare, you know, when we start having a 6-man conversation, I think I'm the only one that embraced it, that said, I'm the— I agree. This is a lifestyle, you know what I'm saying? I think Jamal always strived to be like a megastar, you know? And he was, don't get me confused, you know how this shit go, but—

Yeah.

He always was looking for that. And I was like, if this is my job, I'm gonna make it embarrassing for me to come off the bench. And so that's the only reason I say I give it to myself because I just embraced the lifestyle of it. I made it okay for kids to wanna even accept that position. And I made this shit look cool. You know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

And so I give it to myself.

I actually agree with that because, and it kind of goes back to what we were just speaking about, was if no one ever thought you was a starter before, you got to a point to where the team was yours and you still kept coming off the bench.

It's like, what are we doing? You know what I'm saying? It's like, what are we doing? It got to a point where Doc was like, you're still coming off the bench. He like, I'm not gonna throw you off of your rhythm. Like, I know what I get out of that. So I'm not even—

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not even gonna play around with it. 'Cause I know exactly what I'm gonna get outta you when you come into the game at the 5-minute mark. I know it's on. So we gonna leave that in place. You know what I'm saying? I think, you know, with the other guys, like, they were just a great unit with Manu. They were a great unit. Like, shit, you look at games, he was coming in the game at the 10-minute mark.

Yeah.

Like he wasn't no sixth man for real. You know, Jamal was always striving to be a superstar, be an all-star, be a highlighted player in this league. He was always striving for that. And I think I was just the one guy that was, not saying that I was complacent and I was cool with my position, I just embraced it. And I gave it a name, gave it a likeness, gave it a vibe, gave it a feel. You know what I'm saying?

For sure. I think for those of y'all that don't know, if you pull up to Signature, the private airport at LAX, this man still has his own parking spot.

That's dope.

Sixth Man of the Year.

But hold on. But before it said Lou Will, just to keep it all the way 1,000, it said Jamal Crawford.

It said, ah, see, I ain't see that.

Yeah. I didn't see that. Yeah, so it said Jamal Crawford. And once I won that first Clipper one, we came to the airport and it was changed. So it was him first.

Ah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

It was Big Dog's spot first.

I respect that. I respect that. And by the way, much love and respect to Jamal Crawford. One of the OGs, guys who did it the right way. Probably can still play. Still hooping.

I just seen somewhere, I just seen he had 40 this weekend in the Pro-Am.

Yeah, he different. He different. Benjamin Button for real.

For sure.

He different. But I think the fact that it's still to this day says that, that like, that carries some weight. Like this is Los Angeles. This ain't, it's not Oklahoma City. This is Los Angeles, man. Everybody go to that airport.

Yeah, I know that. I know LeBron was looking like, what the fuck is going on around here?

Facts. Hey, but I'm gonna ask a couple more questions. I wanna get you outta here. I don't wanna take up too much of your time. These couple questions is a little all over the place, but it is something that I want to ask for my own personal self. Number 1, the chicken wing store. The bubble going on, you leave, and when you said it, I knew because when I go there, if I don't go to the strip club, I'm going to get me some chicken wings.

Yeah.

So when you said it, I knew what it was. But how was that for you navigating that? Because I mean, motherfuckers was on your neck when that happened.

It was difficult for me because I felt like it was getting to a point where, you know, all of the shit that I accomplished, how I've carried myself over my career, like they was just trying to attach some goofy shit to my name. And so I was fighting the narrative. I was fighting the narrative 'cause they was trying to make me out to be a goofy, like I was out here tripping. And I was like, come on, man, that never been my MO. So let's not even, let's not start that. Like I'm getting to the end of my career. I'm in year 15. "and y'all talking like I've been tripping this whole time." You know what I'm saying? I think I said it on another platform, like, nobody was fucking, none of us was pandemic experts at the time.

Facts.

Like none of us.

Facts.

You know what I'm saying? Nobody.

Nobody. Not even the experts.

Yeah, nobody. And so everything that I did that day, I thought I did it responsibly. You know what I'm saying? And the shit just, It just, it took a life of its own. You know, it's actually birthed businesses, it's birthed nicknames. I get more Lemon Pepper shit than Underground and all of that. It's like Lemon Pepper is here to stay. You know what I'm saying? It is. That shit is here to stay. And I fought it for a minute because of, like I said, the way people were trying to perceive me. Like, "Oh, I snuck out the bubble to go to Magic City." I'm like, "Come on, man." Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's what they did. That was my only thing, just trying to navigate the narrative behind my decision. Was it a great decision? Looking back in hindsight, probably not. But at that time, I didn't think I was tripping. I ain't think I was doing nothing wrong, but I could see it both ways.

Nah, definitely. I think that takes an incredible person, an incredible man to say like, yeah, it probably wasn't the best decision for me to make, but, but in that moment, that's what I was doing and stand on that. I respect that. I definitely respect that.

And I took my 10 days in quarantine like a man.

You ain't try to battle it? Like, all right, I'm gonna take my 10.

I ain't fight it. Hey, listen, Adam called me straight up. He says, we're gonna give you 10 days quarantine 'cause this shit don't look good. I said, yes, sir. Got off the phone.

No problem. You got it. I respect Adam. I like Adam. Adam does it the right way. He does it the right way.

And he direct, he direct, he straight up with the shit. Yeah, so I respect it.

And you respect it.

Yeah.

I just had a situation with them about stuff I said on the podcast, and I spoke with him and he's like, and I explained to him what I meant and all of that. And we had a long conversation. We talked about a lot of stuff, but I respected how he handled it. He's like, all right, well, If that's how you feel about this and that's what you saying, then I'm gonna allow you to go handle that. Like, I don't need to put out this statement from the league or from me or this. If you saying that you're going to go handle this situation, then I'm just gonna let you go handle it.

Absolutely.

And I can respect that because, you know, we always speak about being viewed as partners. Like, we're partners in this league. We're not just an employee. Like, we make this league go. And I feel like Adam views us as partners. Right. And you need that. And I can appreciate that.

And you need that because if you don't know no better, you can feel like you just an employee. You know what I'm saying? You don't realize your bargaining value. You don't realize your negotiating value until somebody tell you or until your partner tell you, yo, we in this shit together. You know what I'm saying?

Facts. Speaking of negotiating value, a couple years ago, you had spoke out about the contracts that you had and the production that you've had over the course of your career, do you think there was something that could have been done differently for you to get the value that I think you deserve this whole time that you've been in this league?

I think on my end, I probably could have been more patient. You know, like looking back at probably my last deal that I got, I probably could have been more patient and I probably could have got the money, But the mindset that I'm in at that time, again, I don't have stability at that time in my career. You understand what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

Yeah, so when I don't have that stability, be like, I'm about to, in the summer, I'm getting, I'm fucking, I'm about to get fucking paid. Like I'm shaking in my boots because I don't know which way is up. I'm dealing with so much, you know, so much, I don't wanna say turmoil because I'm blessed to be in my 15th year and still had this issue. But it was just, I didn't have that stability where I could wait it out. I knew where I wanted to be. I knew where I wanted to continue to hoop. Clippers threw me a number, I took it. You know, it was some more money out there. I thought I'd have been miserable if I went and got it. You know, so—

Yeah, and I think that's a big deal.

You know what I'm saying? Like, them extra 3, 4 million ain't worth me fucking ready to pull my hair out every day for 7 months.

That part.

You know, for me, you know, I live a very cool middle-class lifestyle. If you ever come around Atlanta, you will see like, I'm gonna be okay. You know what I'm saying? I don't overextend myself, but, and that's what I could have did on my last deal. I probably could have been more patient. If I'd have waited it out, I think I would've got one of those deals that I wanted. Before that, it just didn't work my way. I just, you know, just be real. Game, you know, the business side didn't go my way.

Nah, and I think it's important for people to understand the business side. It's not always your production, it's the team you on. What are they willing to pay? 'Cause if that team goes away, you lose your negotiating power. And all of these things that go into play, it's not just the final number. Like, oh man, he's that good, he gets this number. It's totally different than that. I think a lot of people don't understand that.

Yeah, and that's, you know, when a lot of people, man, Lou should have got this, Lou should have got that. I agree with y'all 100%., but y'all just gotta understand where I was at. You know, I'm looking for stability. I'm looking for somebody to tell me, I've been traded 3 times. I've been on 3 teams in 6 months. I need somebody to tell me I got 3, 4 years where I can chill out and I can be myself and know that this is gonna be home. That's what I was looking for. So the first time I heard that and it was where I wanted to be, I'm in. You know what I'm saying?

I respect that. I respect that. And I'll tell you another thing I respect. It's you saying, I could have been more patient. You know, in most situations like that, people blame the agent right away. They say, oh man, it's the agent's fault because the outside people say it's the agent's fault, right? Like, oh, he should have got this amount of money. And then the outside people's— you and the agent could have had a million conversations. The outside people start blaming the agent, the whole world blame the agent, you know?

Right.

And I don't know what your situation was with your agent. I'm not saying it was or wasn't their fault. But the fact that you could sit here and say, I could have been more patient. I respect that. 'Cause it get thrown on the agent so much.

Yeah, no, it wasn't this. We had a lot of conversations and I had a lot of opportunities, a lot of options on the table. And I was steadfast in what I wanted. I knew what I wanted. I knew where I wanted to be. And like I said, man, I live in Grayson, Georgia. I live in the country, dawg. I don't need much. You know what I'm saying? And I'm one of those people, you know when guys say, I'll play basketball for free and they full of shit. Like, I think I would be one of those people for real. I really love hooping. You know what I'm saying? And so I sometimes, I didn't think as a businessman as much as I did as a hooper.

Yes.

When I should have been thinking as a businessman. I was thinking more as a hooper. You know, if I got enough to keep me going, I'm good. Like, let's lace up. When sometimes I should have stopped and looked at things more as a businessman. And shout out to you, 'cause I see you very vocal about it and you give a lot of these young guys the information. But I think that's a great thing where the game is now. Everybody is starting to figure out that they're their own individual businesses and they running shit like individual businesses and not just hoopers. You know what I'm saying? So kudos to you for continuing that conversation.

Nah, I appreciate it, bro. Couple more questions and I'll let you go. And we were just talking about Adam Silver. He recently spoke about how he wants to see the rule change back from the age rule change back from 19 to 18. As someone who, as someone, if I'm not mistaken, you might've been the last draft that was allowed to go outta high school, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. As someone who went outta high school, do you see a benefit in it being 19 or do you think it should go back to being 18?

Talent is talent, bro. Like, Luka been a pro since he was 14, 15. Like, the guys that have been pillars of this game, Kevin Garnett, Kobe, LeBron, these are all high school guys.

Facts.

These are all guys coming in at 18 and they put this shit on they backs and they've turned this shit into a Fortune 500 company. So what difference does 18 and 19 make besides you wasting a year of some time? 'Cause if you send me to college, I'm only going 'cause I have to.

Yeah, that's a fact.

I'm only going 'cause I have to because that's the route that y'all have given me. You know, so, you know, we have prep schools and we got the G League now and all of these things, but nothing gets you ready for the real thing like the real thing, bro. So I don't think that changes anything. Let these guys come in when they talented enough to compete for themselves and do they thing.

I respect that. You heard it from the man himself who's done it. Been through it. Last question before we get outta here, bro. What's next for you? You want to keep playing? What is, what, what, and if you do want to keep playing, what is, what does it take for a team to say, all right, 'cause all right. Or for you to say, yep, I'm gonna go to this situation. It's like you said, the last year with the Hawks, it was cool from a vet standpoint for you watching Trae grow and like all them younger guys grow, but. Yeah. But as a competitor like yourself, the guy who I was playing against, I know you not cool with that. You know what I'm saying?

So like, what does it gotta be for you? It gotta make sense for me. You know, like we touched on about family early on. My kids are 11, my 8-year-old, she's into acting. I picked her up from acting. She in the acting summer camp. My son, 2 years old, I'm trying to mold him into being a man. Like I got a lot of shit going on around the house that could use my time and my energy. So if it don't make sense, I'm not interested in it, but I definitely would still like to play. I still enjoy it. I still have that desire to play. I still have that desire to be on the road with the guys and try to create memories, you know? So if the phone ring, it ring, we'll see.

But if not, you at peace.

I ain't tripping.

I respect that.

I ain't tripping at all.

I respect that, bro. Like I said, man, I wanna thank you for coming onto the show. I know we have been trying to do this for a while, but as a guy who I respect in this league, and I think we've always had that, respect since I came into the league.

For sure.

As a guy who I respect, just the way you've gone about your business, the way you carry yourself, you know, and most importantly, your career and how you've gone about that. Much love, bro. I appreciate you. You always welcome back on the Draymond Green Show. I appreciate you stopping by, homie.

Love, my G, always.