Mateen Cleaves on Tom Izzo's greatness, building MSU basketball & his journey | Draymond Green Show

What's up everybody?

It's Draymond Green. Make sure you subscribe to the Volumes YouTube channel below so you don't miss any more of this great content going forward. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show. It's been a while since we did a podcast. First, let me set this up for you. We are here in the Draymond Green Strength and Conditioning Facility or Center at Michigan State University. I have the honor and ple— Well, before we get into that, as you can see, last night was the Hall of Fame. I look like I just rolled outta bed. I did. So my ankles are ashy, my hands are ashy, but I have the honor and pleasure of having today my big brother, the original gangster who started all of this Michigan State stuff. I know, you know, sometimes we, we can lose sight of the ones that really did it and set it up. And you know, we talking about going back to '96, you know, and I think, you know, today you see Michigan State and it's like, man, it's, you know, it's Michigan State. Like it's one of them programs and it is, but long before it was ever one of them programs, we had a guy come from Flint, Michigan and it was cool to go to the other school there. But when you are cut the way this guy is cut, the 14th pick in the NBA draft, 2000 national champion, I'm honored to welcome my big brother Mateen Cleaves to the Draymond Green Show.

What's happening? Oh baby, yes sir. I appreciate it, man.

Absolutely. So I mean, let's get right into it. At the time that you came to Michigan State, Michigan State wasn't the place to be. And we know everybody was going to the other school. What was it that brought you here to say, "Nah, I'm gonna go do this," as opposed to just jumping on board? It's right after the Fab Five, and yet you say, "Nah, I'm gonna go do this." What was it that brought you here?

First of all, like, and not trying to be arrogant, but I believed in me. You know what I mean? I wasn't a cat to go just jump on somebody else's team or ride somebody else's coattail. I believed in me, first of all. And you know, the way Coach Izzo recruited me, man, he inspired me so much. 'Cause a lot of the other coaches was kind of like used car salesman, man. They was just selling you whatever you wanted to hear. But he was so real. I mean, he was at everything. You know, he was at my football games, basketball games, workouts, everything. He was there every day and telling me, you know, we gonna win a national championship. And I believed him, you know? And a lot of people thought I was crazy to come to Michigan State because it was like, honestly, who you gonna pass the ball to? You know, Michigan did have a lot of, great players or whatever it was. But I believed in me, man. And I ain't want the easy route. You know, why not go to Michigan State and do something special? You know, you can ride somebody else's coattail or just fit in. Nah, man, I believed in me so much. I say, "Hell, why not go to Michigan State and do something great?" You know what I mean? So I believed in me. I bet on myself.

And, you know, coming here, what was that journey like? Because it, it wasn't all peaches from the beginning.

Nah.

I think people see the end and it's like, "Oh man, them guys were that." You know, you see '99 Final Four, you see 2000 National Championship and you get it twisted. But what was it like in the beginning coming to really light that torch?

It was different, man. And a lot of people don't know too, I broke my back right before I got here. So before I got, when I got to Michigan State, I was never the athlete I was. But when I got on campus, One thing I wanted to change was the mentality. And it was something simple as like an open gym. Like to me, if you taking score, there's a winner and there's a loser. You know what I mean? And that gotta mean something, just the open gym game. And I started saying, "Well, we gonna keep track of wins and losses." Because everybody, some cats would come in here just to get a sweat, you know, get up and down. I said, "Nah, they taking score. That means somebody gotta lose. All right?" So I don't wanna be on that end. So what we gonna do is start keeping track of the wins and losses. And what that did, start getting pride. Brought pride to winning an open gym game with nobody here. No sports writers, no crowd. We brought pride in just that. I wanted to brag that night that I won more games than you. Okay? So that mentality started to really get the thing going. You know what I mean? So that's what it was. My first job was to change the mentality of people that was okay with losing. I wasn't okay with that. You know? And it was two people that wasn't okay with losing. That was me and Coach Izzo. Yeah. He was wired the same way. So it was easy. We was like tit for tat. We had each other's back, but we was the only two at that point that was wired that way. But like I said, it was changing the mindset. And then at that point, you know, the open gym and making that important, winning. All right. Then the next thing was scheduling. You know, Coach, line 'em up. Let's go play all them dudes they saying good. All these programs that they saying the top, let's go play 'em.

"Line 'em up." So it's your fault we end up with these fucked up ass schedules every year.

I had a little bit something to do with that. It's your fault. Hey, but Coach, that's one thing he, that's my man. Because one thing he did say, he said, "Hey, hey, you better get them." I ain't gonna say the words he said. "You better get them in the gym. Okay, you wanna play these guys? Well, you better get them in the gym so we'll be ready." I said, "Line 'em up. We'll be ready." So that was the mindset. We ain't backing, we ain't ducking from nobody. We want the smoke.

Absolutely.

Yes, sir.

You come here and Mopeet was already here. Mopeet's a year older than you, but no disrespect to Mopeet. That's one of my big bros too. But the gravity that you pulled when you decided to come here, then you get Charlie, and then it's this whole Flintstone thing. You got Tone Smith here, Roberta in football. Then it's this whole Flintstone thing. Was that, Is that what you saw this becoming? Like, yo, I wanna make this like a Flint thing. I wanna make this our school. Because for me, growing up and watching y'all, Michigan State was just all about the Flintstones. And then Jay Rich came here from Saginaw.

Oh baby.

But Michigan State was, it was almost like it was Flint schools. Was that your vision or did it just kind of roll out that way?

Yeah, it kind of just rolled out that way. And you know, I'm Flintstone to the core. Ain't ducking that. But I was all about the team. You know, people made a big deal. The national media made a big deal because that is something unique. You got 4 cats from one city, that small city, to come to a major university and make the noise we were making. That was kind of cool. But man, we were all about the team. And I made sure they knew that. I would say it all the time. "Hey, we ain't just, this is a team, all right?" But I would pull them to the side every now and then and say, "Hey baby, you know everybody from the crib watching these games. So we gotta represent." But I made sure the whole team knew, man, it's a team thing, man. You know what I mean? Like, we don't get it done without nobody. Everybody play a role. I'm talking about from the managers to the walk-ons, to whoever, everybody play a piece in this. So that was kind of cool. You know what I mean? Being from one city, you know, and them was my boys. We grew up playing together and stuff. But man, that kind of just, it kind of just happened to be honest, because you know, I'm all about everybody. It was all about the team here at Michigan State.

Yeah. I think a lot of people don't know, coming outta high school, you were one of the top point guards in the country.

It's great.

But what most people don't know is you were also one of the top quarterbacks in the country. And I think coming up at that time and seeing like what Charlie Ward had just did at Florida State, like I'm sure how much of a decision was it for you to choose like, yo, I'm not only, I'm gonna go to Michigan State, but I'm gonna choose basketball over football. 'Cause that's a totally different thing. Or you could have went to a school and said, hey, I'm going to play basketball and football. But how much did that decision weigh on you? Or was that just an easy, like, nah, I'm going basketball and that's just that?

Nah, man, I thought about that. The car accident kind of had me gravitate a little more to basketball when I broke my back. Man, I was seriously thinking about playing football. And like you talk, you mentioned Charlie Ward. I kind of smiled 'cause that was my guy. I admire him so much and looked up to him. I actually reached out to him on Instagram the other day and just said, "What's up?" You know, "Hey man, love you." That's dope. Respect. 'Cause he was a point guard, he was a quarterback. So I was seriously considering going to Florida State 'cause I had just watched him. But Coach Izzo, man, he made it hard. You know, it was, I couldn't tell him no. But even when I got here, I didn't rule football out. And that's one thing I love about Coach Izzo. Me and him would sit and talk to Nick Saban. We together, you know, I never ruled it out. I was like, actually, if I didn't have the great year I had my sophomore year, I was probably gonna play football that next year. But Big Ten Player of the Year, we went to the Sweet 16, won the Big Ten, first team All-American that year with Vince Carter, which was a hell of a class. So that kind of just, it just happened. But I hadn't ruled football out probably until I had that good sophomore season.

Really?

Yeah. I would go to Nick Saban. We talked all the time. I was gonna play football if I didn't have a good year.

Iz probably would've loved you more. You know, he more of a football fan than basketball anyway. I know, right? So when you come through Michigan State, One of the things that I've always appreciated about Izz is like there's eras. And you know, I'm coming through Michigan State, all we hear about is the Mo Cleaves era, you know? And then for me, the Travis Walton era. And then, you know, I was fortunate enough to have a little tiny era.

Yeah, please.

Then Denzel Valentine. But what I want you to talk to me more about is, Coach Izzo, just the guy that he is. Like I said in my speech last night, like I'm gonna ride for you forever. Now, you know, I get a crack outta talking to dudes in the locker room like, yo, your coach really don't bang with you like that. Like you go around the NBA and like you talk to guys, it's baffling to me when I hear guys talk about their coach. Like I don't understand that, that don't register with me. That you don't like your college culture, that you can't just pick up the phone and call your coach and he gonna answer. Or I'm fucked up and he hop on a flight and land at 11:00 PM and leave at 6:00 AM just to see me. Like it don't register with me when I hear guys talk about that. I saw it with you and I'm like, wow, I want that. But just talk to me more about the guy, not the coach. Everybody know the coach, everybody know the Hall of Famer, but I just wanna hear about the guy. Yeah.

Man, and it's funny, man, and I am getting emotional when you talk about him, 'cause, man, that dude right there, like that part, throw the coaching out the window. Like we know all that, good coach, great coach. It's that, man, like the talks, that you have and that when you go in his office, he ain't the coach no more, man. He just like, damn near like a father and talk to you. He had a way with you, man. And he would, he, he, he, he, he got the best outta me like none other. And when I first got up here, I didn't like it. I didn't, man. I was—

You didn't?

I ain't know why. Why he was always on me, man. Like if you pass the ball to somebody, they didn't make a shot, it was my fault. I ain't understand that. And he brought something outta me that I ain't even know was in there. I was a leader and I was, but he took it to a whole nother level. But it's them talks, man. When he just put his arm around you and talk to you and tell you how much he love you and care about you. He don't even bring up basketball sometimes. That's why I'm so glad I came to Michigan State. That part, man. He would put his arm around me, man, and hug me and tell me how much he loved me and cared about me, man. And that's why I would run through a brick wall for him. I know he had my back and I had his. And for me, and just like my parents, my mother and father, I was raised by great parents. I was used to that. And he just, when I came here, he gave me that same feel from when I left the crib. But it's that part, you know what I mean? That part when he talked to you, man. And I never wanted to let him down. When he said, "We gonna win a national championship here," I was gonna do everything in my power to win a national championship here. It was two people that believed that. Two people, man, me and him. And every time I came on the court, I gave everything I had 'cause I ain't wanna let him down, man. And that's what's make him special. I know you love him the way I love him, but that dude is something special, man. And it pisses me off, and I'm gonna address this real quick, when people say shit like, you know, can he relate to the players now? And is the game passing him by? Hell, man, are you crazy? Are you crazy? The people that come here that really wanna be great, We love him. Shit. 'Cause he gonna get the best outta you. He gonna push you to a whole nother level. I wanna be— He used to tell me, "Hell, I want you to be better than what you want yourself to be." And that used to drive me so much, man. So if you wanna be great, this is a hell of a place to come. Yeah, he gonna hold you accountable, but you know he care about you. You know he got your back. So hold me accountable, I'm with it. But I'm glad you asked me that, man, because—

Yeah.

That dude right there is special. The hell with the coaching, he's special, man. He did something for me, man. I'll never forget it, man. He made me a hell of a person, man. Him and my mother and father, I had great parents, but that him right there, he made me a hell of a person. Be able to overcome the challenges you go through in life, that feeling sorry for yourself, he ain't with that. Yeah. That ain't happening. You have a bad game, so what? Let we on to the next one. So it was that, man, that I, it's priceless. I can never ever repay him for some of the things he did for me. You know what I mean? That's why I wanna repay it and give it back to everybody else.

No doubt. I think for me, I always tell people like, and it's exactly what you just said, I never understood the yelling early on. Like the fucking meetings till 3 o'clock in the morning. But then once you go through it and then you don't have that anymore.

Right.

It's like, then you want it back. You know what I'm saying? Like you want the 3 o'clock, the 3:00 AM meeting back.

Right.

You know what I'm saying? You get out in the world and you realize motherfuckers don't care about you like that.

Man.

You know what I'm saying?

Right, right.

It took me a while to understand when he's, "You're fucking fat ass, get in some shape." And it took me a while to realize like, yo, all the yelling, all the screaming, the fussing, pissed off, this dude, This dude is chasing success for me harder than I'm chasing success.

Right.

And it got to a point for me where I'm like, as you just said, I can't let him down.

Right.

Like, yeah, I wanna make it to the NBA. Like, absolutely. But I can't let him down.

Right.

Because he's chasing this for me harder than I'm chasing this for me. And so then what does it do? It raises your level or you fold.

Right, right.

It raises your level or you fold. And I've seen so many people fold to it when I was here, before I got here, after I left. I've seen so many people fold to it and it'll piss me off if somebody, when people would say, "Izzo holding somebody back." Talk. Or, "He ain't letting such and such do this. He won't let that guy dribble." And I tell him, he won't let him dribble because he fucking dribble off his foot when he dribble. I ain't really seen him tell somebody who can dribble not to dribble. But I have seen him tell someone who can't fucking dribble not to dribble.

100%.

You should go run this wing. You should catch and shoot.

Right.

By the way, if you just go do that, you can actually get to the NBA. But once you start dribbling and dribbling off your fucking foot out of bounds, you can't get to the NBA.

Yes, sir.

And so it was, that was one of the things And still to this day, that would bother me because it's like, "Oh man, he puts you in this box." Man. He put you in the box you belong in.

Right, exactly.

Because for me, there wasn't no foreman dribbling the ball up the floor.

Nope.

But I showed him I can dribble the ball up the floor. And what did he do? He encouraged it.

Right. "Hey, you get the ball, go.

Keep the ball low, keep it out in front. That's how you make the plays. You can see the next play if you here. But if you got the ball back here and now you trying to make a play, you can't make a play." You know what I'm saying? So to hear people say stuff like that, it would bother me. You know what I'm saying?

Can I chime in on that?

Absolutely.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't mean to cut you off, little bro. But you right. Like that part, like, nah, you can't dribble. So you're not gonna dribble here. You know what I mean? You're not a shooter. Go get a rebound. That's what great coaches do. I remember, man, we was playing the game on national TV, man. He took me out the game. That's my man. I love him to death, man. I'll never forget this. He took me out the game, sat me next to him. He said, "I took you out 'cause you looking bad on national TV. I ain't even let you, I'm doing you a favor 'cause you looking terrible on national TV. Get your shit together, man. Now go back in." That stuff, you know what I'm saying?

Absolutely.

Like that stuff. He said, "I'm taking you out. I'm doing you a favor 'cause you looking terrible." I was mad and I started laughing. You know what I'm saying? Then he said, "Now go back in." Like, when they had a hell of a game. But it's little stuff like that, man. You know what I mean? Like, right. You damn right. Like, yeah, I'm with you on that, man. I'm gonna ride for him. Shit, all day.

You've gone through some shit in your life.

Yeah.

Off the court, after college basketball, after NBA basketball. And I think when I take a step back and when I look at it, there's two guys who I have the utmost respect for that roll with you through your shit no matter what. And that's Izz and Matt Ishbia. And I think the loyalty that you've shown to those guys, I think it's right that they showed that loyalty back. But the reality is, is most people never show that loyalty back. And it's not that they owed it back because the loyalty that you show, you show because you loyal. That don't necessarily make the next guy, it don't make them have to be that way. It don't say, oh, now they owe you that. But the way those two guys—

Draymond Green.

Has rolled for you, it's actually a microcosm of the program that you and Eazy built. And to have people like that in your darkest times, what did that do for you going through the shit that you had to go through?

Yeah, bro. Yeah, you making me cry out here. It's crazy. But Matt, another real one. Like, man, I'm talking about, came to get me. I was at my lowest point ever, man. I got low as you can get before you break. Izzo, Pops, he never left my side. Matt, man, Matt came to get me. I wouldn't even return the calls. I was just in my little mode, my little, whatever I was going through, I was down, just terrible. And Matt called me, called me, called me, made me come up and have lunch with him. Like, man, I'm talking about, man, put his arms around me, man. Had my back. 'Cause it's crazy when I looked around, all that I did for other people, and I'd do it again, 'cause that's just how I'm wired. My mama raised me that way. I looked around, man, wasn't nobody there. A lot of people, and you ain't say your name, you was there. Shit, you was there. You know what I'm saying? I talked to you, talking to you, man, just like, what I was going through, what I went through, just talking to you, man. Like that shit lifted my spirits, man. Like little stuff like you was there, you know what I mean? But a lot of people, man, when I looked around, man, they left. They left me for dead. But what they ain't know, man, I kept breathing. I wasn't gonna die. You know what I'm saying? I wasn't gonna die. You know what I mean? The world left me for dead, man. But I wouldn't fucking die. 'Cause I'm wired different. You know what I mean? But Matt. Yeah. What he did for me, man, standing in my corner to this day, bringing me into an organization when I was going through what I went through, when people was running away from that shit, then nobody wanted to touch me. He brought me in, told me, "Man, you my guy, you my big brother. I love you. I got your back no matter what." He brought me in through the thick of it when his company was booming, where it only could've hurt him. He didn't care about none of that. He cared about me, man, having my back. You know what I'm saying? So it's stuff like that. Coach Izzo, man, when I was going through, man, came to court. He got ridiculed. A lot of people, why would he go? This and that. 'Cause it's family. First of all, they know I ain't do the shit that they was saying I did, but it's family. And that's what you do. You ride with family, you stick up for family. And that's the shit that separate us from a lot of these different schools, man. That part is, Izzo being in my corner, Matt being in my corner, you being in my corner, Steve, big bro. He was there, man. Talked to me, called me, man. I was fucked up. He sent me some bread and everything. You know what I'm saying? Like that stuff, man. That's the stuff that separates you. And I gotta get where, even though C Webb went to the other school, that's my baby too. He was on me. He was calling me, checking on me, tapping in with me, sent me some bread too. Ain't even ask, I ain't even ask for it. Here, man. Here you go. So you comfortable, man. Make sure y'all, your family straight, man. It's that stuff, man, that got me through it, man. But Coach Izzo, man, you, Webb, Smitty, big bro, man. Like, y'all, I love y'all to death, man. I give y'all my heart, man. Anything I could do, because when I was fucked up in that bad space, y'all put y'all arm around me, man. That shit priceless. You know what I'm saying? So I appreciate that, man. That saved my life, man. That kept me going, 'cause all this, "It wasn't that, going through that shit." You know what I mean? "But y'all got me back. Now I'm back. Now they ass in trouble. Here I come." Let's get it.

It's on.

Absolutely.

And then there's also one person who I think stuck by your side like nobody else that I wanna speak on. My big sis, Shanda.

Oh man.

Your wife.

Yeah, man.

Like, I think as, Like we grow up and like you chase, like we chase the prettiest girl and you know, we think we big shit and like I could get whoever I want. And then you go through some shit and motherfuckers flee. And she held you down. She's still holding you down. Speak on, I need you to speak on her.

Man, she's so cold and real and stronger than I can ever be. To have to go through that shit she went through, man, and still stay in my corner, go to court with me, stand on my side, and hear all the shit people saying. And man, that one right there, she better than me. I told her, I told her, you much stronger than I ever thought I could be. You a real one. And now I know why I married you. It's that, you know what I mean? You held me down in my weakest moment. And when I screwed up a little bit, so she—

Yeah.

When she told me she was okay, that say, that took a weight off, a burden off me. 'Cause I could eat whatever come with whatever, bring it. I deal with whatever come to me. I eat that. But when she told me, when I hurt other people, that screws with me. If I hurt, let you down or Coach Izzo or something, that hurts me. 'Cause I hurt you. But I could eat whatever come, I deal with it. I'm just, I deal with it, I eat it. But when she told me she was all right, man, that saved me, man. That saved me. That took a lot of, lot, a lot, a lot of hurt and pressure off me. But she, man, she priceless. 'Cause a lot of people would've just ran. She stood 10 toes down with me. That's my dog to this day. She, man, she's special. And I sure appreciate having a wife like that. 'Cause she held me down, man. Like when just coming outta that court sometimes, man, and just hugging me when she should have been mad, you know, about a lot of stuff, hugging me, just being there for me. That's priceless. That's priceless. So I'm glad you brought that up because she definitely need her roses. And I'm doing, I'm a work in progress.

Absolutely.

But I'm trying to be a better husband every day because she showed me what's real, what's loyalty, what she did, you know what I mean? So I learned a lot from her. Going through that situation. She's stronger than I ever could be, you know, and all the stuff that went down. But she a real one, man. I got a real one with me.

No doubt.

Yes, sir.

No doubt. And before we get outta here, when I think back to that time, 'cause you beat it once and that wasn't good enough. I'm gonna beat this shit again. I remember when they first pulled it back, I hit you, said, "What?" Said, "We good, little bro." I'm gonna beat this shit again. 'Cause I ain't do that shit. I'm gonna beat it again. And when you said that to me, that's all I needed to hear. But it's one thing that you said to me that stuck with me and that I'll never forget. And you said, "The only thing that's really fucking me up is these motherfuckers trying to take me from my son." Yeah, man. They trying to take me from my son. They trying not to let me raise my son. That's the only thing that's really fucking me up.

Right.—

to get through that, to continue raising my nephew Lil Mo, who by the way, gonna be a motherfucking star for y'all that don't know.

Don't say that. We keep grinding.

Star for y'all that don't know. How did that strengthen your bond with your son? Because you know, we all, you know, you have a son and the reality is, is you think like, yo, that's gonna be my right-hand man. And then sometimes it don't go that way. You know, like life takes on its own path. Sometimes it don't go that way. But how did that strengthen two sons? But one was already in college, already out the house. The raising of him had already been done.

Yeah.

But at the time, I think Lil Mo 7, 8.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? How did that strengthen you? And what perspective did that give you about being a father going through that?

Man, that's the shit that worried me every day. I would go in there, man, he would be asleep. I just go stare at him. Standing in his door. I'm looking at 15 years in prison, man. And that's all I was thinking about. My manager was like, "Man, are you scared to go to prison?" "Hell no. That's nothing. When you in the jungle, you become an animal. I'll be cool. I adapted to that shit." Wasn't worried about that. I was worried about being away from him. That's my baby. I ain't finna leave him out here with these wolves, shit, in this world, man, with no guidance. That's what was killing me. That part, man. I wasn't worried about that shit. Prison, man, I eat that. That's nothing. But I don't wanna be away from him. So that's what was eating me up. But what that situation did, gave me more time with him. I kept him on my hip. And you know, it's one motherfucker, excuse my language, I knew that loved me, him. When I come through the door, man, looking in his eyes, Daddy, running up to me, jumping in my arm. He was a little boy back then. Just laying on, sitting on my lap, watching the games, watching you, like that stuff right there. That's what it was about. I knew somebody loved me. No matter what, my mama had passed away, my daddy. So I knew it was one person that loved me. I knew I was loved, you know, yo, you Izzy, big bro Steve, whatever, all that. I knew that. That little one right there love me no matter what. You know what I'm saying? So I knew I had to stay strong and get through that, man. But I would come in and look at him some days and I was so worried to be away from him, man. 'Cause I didn't wanna be a statistic, man. I read about that stuff coming from the ghetto, man. You see that, man? Dads that ain't even in their kids' life. And by the way, I don't have zero respect for you if you don't take care of your kids. Zero. You can't even hang with me. 'Cause that's a blessing, man. You gotta tap into him, pour into him. I pour in my hell, I pour into other kids. You know what I'm saying? That's just what we supposed to do. So that's what I was more worried about, being away from him, man. But I had so much time. Coach Izzo was saying, 'cause we always try to like, damn, what's good from this? Like, 'cause that was rough. I'm like, Coach, I don't know if I can find no good from that shit. But it was the time with him. And I'm molding him and molding him and molding him, man. And you just doing some loving. Hopefully he can become a better, good basketball player at some point. But he gonna be good in life. Life, man. 'Cause I'm tapping into him. I told him, "You gonna be great no matter what. I don't gotta tell you to be great. Look in the mirror and tell yourself you gonna be great, period." So I'm tapping into him every day. So the fact that I'm out here being able to do that, man, I'm so blessed and love that. I take pride in that shit. I'm a happy, I love being a daddy, love it. I keep him on my hip. I stay on him. I kiss on him, love him, hold him, but hold him highly accountable. You know what I mean? That part, being a father, man, that's the real to me. You know what I'm saying? So that's something that I take pride in. I'm gonna do a hell of a job with it. I'm gonna challenge the hell out of him, hold him highly accountable. He'll be successful in whatever he is, what he gonna try. 'Cause we don't settle for less. Shit, that's just how we wired. And let me transition to this before we get outta here, because I gotta tell you like how proud I am of you. Like I can sit there with him and talk about, look, Unk, and the shit that you doing and all this great stuff, the basketball stuff, podcast and the fucking everything you did for Saginaw and shit you doing for Michigan State University and all that shit you do, man. Like that shit makes me feel good. Like a big brother, like a happy big brother. I'm looking at my little brother shine. Like that shit big time for me. I walked out that courtroom, soon as I was able to get to my phone and turn it on, who on there? You FaceTime. Yeah! Hollering and screaming at me. You know what I mean? They took my passport. I had, you like, we going to Cabo. I said, shit, give me a day. Give me one more day. I'm getting my passport., but you took me and my wife to Cabo, man. Like that stuff like that, man, it's priceless. You know what I'm saying? So the shit that you've done and been in my corner and rolled for me, man, it's crazy. 'Cause it's cats I grew up with, man, that ain't stand with me. You know what I mean? But you did and what you doing, I'm so proud of you. You know what I mean? I remember I posted something right after y'all won a championship. I said, "Winning and shut all that hate up." Absolutely. Everybody wanna say shit. They don't like winners, man. That's what it is. They don't like you 'cause you believe in you. You wired different. And people that's not wired that way, that affects them.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? But keep being who you are. You different, man. And the people that, the real ones love it and respect it and gonna ride with you. So fuck what anybody ever say, you keep being that. That's what I raised, that.

Absolutely.

Okay?

Absolutely.

Yes, sir.

And I appreciate it. And as the legend you are, Goat. We never leaving on no somber note. We talked about the bullshit.

Yeah.

It is what it is. But now let's talk about the good shit. Motivation with Mateen, where we taking that?

Oh man, we every day, little bro. And it's like, I don't know what I'm doing with it. I ain't got no team or marketing strategies or nothing. When I pick my phone up, man, I be in the car, I feel like saying something, I'm gonna say it because there's somebody out there that need to hear some of the stuff I'm saying. If it's one person, I don't care. Somebody chimed in like, "Shut up." I said, "Oh, I'm getting to 'em." Absolutely. Yeah, they listening. And that person who said that, probably negative, life all screwed up, don't wanna be great. You know what I mean? But that's what I'm gonna do. I think that is my gift. I think that's what I'm here to do is I did it in basketball. I'm doing it in business now in corporate America. UWM, I gotta shout them out.

Absolutely.

One of the most successful companies in America. We killing it. He got something special there. He hell of a leader, setting the tone. We doing great stuff at UWM, baby. We the best at what we do. But it's helping me, man. I'm gonna help a lot of people, man. That's what I'm here to do. I gotta do it. And I don't wanna motivational speak to make money. It probably'll come. But I love helping people, man. I love seeing people grow. I love empowering others. It's a lot of people that need to hear like the shit that we put in you, tell you it's gonna be okay. Get people to go to the next level. It's, I see greatness in a lot of people that don't even see it in themselves, just like you do. You one of them people that get the best outta others, man. That's special. It's a lot of great players, great people, but can you make somebody else great? That's when you different. So what I wanna do is use that as a platform, and we'll talk off camera, 'cause I'm gonna definitely use you for that and use your platform and see how I can grow this thing. But that's what I wanna do, man. I wanna help other people. I wanna motivate people, man. I wanna see people be successful. That's it. That's where I wanna take that, man. So I'm gonna continue to post stuff. I'mma try to get educated more with this social media stuff 'cause I'm trying to get hip to that and get more content out to people. But we finna, I'm finna step it up. I'mma step it up, man, because I am in the business of helping people. I'm in the business of making people better. All right? So that's where we finna take this thing. We gonna make a lot of people better.

Let's get it.

Let's do it.

Big bro, like I said, man, for everything that you've done in my life, the path that you created here for myself, not only myself, but for all of us to walk through that path and pave the way like you did so we can come to a program that's one of the top programs in the country. I'm from Saginaw, as you know.

You from Flint. Sag nasty.

We don't get opportunities like that every day. Right. For what you created. You know, I've been fortunate enough to be successful in the NBA. It's cool.

Like that's— Very successful.

But the reality is like what you accomplished and what you did, damn the NBA. People try to make you feel like, oh man, you didn't have this career in the NBA. You're not great. You're a failure. You made it outta Flint, Michigan.

100%.

And you paved the way for a kid from Saginaw, Michigan. And for that, I'm forever indebted to you. I thank you. I love you. I appreciate you coming on the show and we gonna turn up again tonight.

That's right, baby.

Turn up, boy.

Appreciate you. Yes, sir, man. Love you too, baby.

Yes, sir.

To the casket drop. To rap.

Yes, sir. Draymond Green Show.